(edit title) How parents talk to little kids Subtleties of the Swedish language or? Options

[Beef]

Hi,

Been here 10 years from London. I have 3 small kids and have been wonderings something for a while.

It appears, to me anyway, that Swedish parents seem to look for consensus when instructing their kids in every day life, i.e., "ska vi byta bloja?" Ska vi gå lägga oss?" etc.

For those that don't speak Swedish, "Shall we change your nappy?" "Shall we go to bed?" and the list goes on..

The kids invariably answer "no", and then then some kind of discussion/argument begins..

Is it an anomaly of the language? Or does the consensus culture start already there?

When it's bed time in my house, for example, I just say cheerily , "ok kids, time for bed" for example.

Just wondering what you think/what you've observed!

[skogsbo]

I suppose it's the asking versus telling phrases. I will have to observe what we do and report back. Our 5yr old is probably equal in both languages, the 3yr old slightly stronger in Swedish, but only just, so we tend to swinging back and forth quite a lot.
I think tone and implied mood, probably means more than the words itself to a youngster, like you say a cheery voice keeps it light despite wanting to enforce them into action.

[Beef]

Just brought this up at Fika. An older Swedish lady, kind of agreed with me, and actually added that she thought it was cruel to present an option that is not an option at all.

Most of the others laughed and admitted that they all do it and never though of that before.. Interesting with languages

But I do get the feeling that parents are almost scared of their kids? Was it like that in the 70s?

Not sure how it's changed in the UK. WIll ask my friends from home next time I'm there. But in my language, well, as I speak it anyway, I'll never ask my kids when there is no option and definitely not try and fool them, like, "shall WE go to bed now?" When I'm going to be up for a few hours more.. But.. Whatever works

[skogsbo]

i think you're right, it is time for them to sleep now, not the royal we!

Prior to departing the UK in my old job, I would often ask those who worked for me to do something,the "do you mind just doing..." "can you help me with this.." when in reality because of the heirachy, they had no option or choice in the matter. It just comes across more polite and less heavy. Which is the way we want to treat our kids. Any it will be shower and bed time soon for the little ones, so we'll see what happens.

[Puffin]

Hi,Been here 10 years from London. I have 3 small kids and have been wonderings something for a while.It appears, to me anyway, that Swedish parents seem to look for consensus ... (show full quote)

Hi,

Been here 10 years from London. I have 3 small kids and have been wonderings something for a while.

It appears, to me anyway, that Swedish parents seem to look for consensus when instructing their kids in every day life, i.e., "ska vi byta bloja?" Ska vi gå lägga oss?" etc.

For those that don't speak Swedish, "Shall we change your nappy?" "Shall we go to bed?" and the list goes on..

The kids invariably answer "no", and then then some kind of discussion/argument begins..

Is it an anomaly of the language? Or does the consensus culture start already there?

When it's bed time in my house, for example, I just say cheerily , "ok kids, time for bed" for example.

Just wondering what you think/what you've observed! ... (hide full quote)

Nope - most of my UK friends talk like this as well

[byke]

Actually, Brits speak allot more direct IMHO.
See video for proof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b22foyWvuUU

[bobalong]

This is a very interesting topic actually, for me anyway as we have come across an instance in our family where a professional had something to say about just such a way of speaking to the kids.

In our house when it was time for bed or anything that MUST be done, it was a case of " right kids time for bed...come here while I change your nappy... its tea time now sit down..etc" sort of thing. There is in no way any choice in the matter either verbally or inferred! If it was a situation where they could choose, we let them do so freely. ie " do you want to go to the park... do you want XX for your tea or YY... do you want to go swimming.. which drink would you like... etc" We respected their decision when appropriate and they knew they truly had a choice. Our kids were ( and still are as adults) very well mannered and we could literally take them anywhere as we knew that they would behave approriately. They knew the difference between when they had a choice or not. No screaming wailing arguments, fights or tantrums... ever! Everyone we met commented on how well behaved and polite they were. It was not a case of terrorising them into submission, we made it clear when they had a choice and when they did not. Boundaries were set whilst they were toddlers and we stuck to them so no mixed messages were being given.

Likewise, we never just said no to something outright without reason, we would explain if we could not give them something they wanted so that they could understand the reason. Maybe just not this week/month as we had no money etc and perhaps it would be something we could work towards.

However, my sister had children much later in life than us and her children are a bloody nightmare. There were no boundaries ever as she was frightened to death of them not liking her and arguing with her. She would ASK them if they were getting dressed to go to school now..., are you eating your breakfast now... do you want to go shopping now,... do you want to sit down and eat your tea... etc. What she wanted was for them to do these things, they were not a choice. So whenever the answer was no, there were tantrums, complaints, tears etc as in the end she would have to force them to do the things she needed them to do.

They are both deaf and needed extra help with what she called learning disabilities. So she sought the help of a professional. She was at her wits end. They went to a meeting where she observed my sister with the kids and had to do certain tasks. Within half an hour, she halted the meeting and sent the kids off to play. Basically her professional opininon was that there was nothing wrong with the kids, it was the PARENTS FAULT THEY WERE HAVING TANTRUMS. My sister and brother in law were giving mixed messages in that they were asking where they should have been TELLING THEM and vice versa. She said, do not give them a choice where there IS NO CHOICE, you are upsetting them because you are asking them something THEN ignoring their reply and FORCING them to do the thing they did not want to do. My sister said that she could not understand why they did things for Me easily and without argument but not her. She replied that it was because I was not giving them a choice were no choice was available!

Getting ready for school in the mornings was always a trial. After 3 years of school morning tantrums she could hardly cope any more. The following day, my sister simply said to my neice, sit down and eat your breakfast as you have to go to school in 1 hour. My neice just looked at her, went in the kitchen without a word and ate her breakfast. After she had finished she told her to get dressed in her uniform and bring her bag down. She did this without question. My sister then said to her... get in the car, it is time to go... she did just that. At the school gates, she got out of the car, kissed my sister goodbye and went laughing and running to her friends. My sister broke down crying in the school yard!!! After all these years, she could not believe it. A morning without tantrums, squabbles and distress.

So for those who give their kids a choice where no real choice exists be warned!

[Puffin]

Actually, Brits speak allot more direct IMHO.

Some do - some don't

Just like Swedes really

[StephenR]

I'm inclined to speak to my stepson using the imperative in English but to pose question in Swedish. Of course, my Swedish isn't great and doesn't come completely naturally so I might not be a good example.

Anecdotally, my wife and her mother are both prone to complaining that Swedish parents too often pose things like bed time, dinner etc as a question and I think that both of them believe that it's increasing.

[Beef]

HIPuffin! Have you really ever heard someone say in English, "Shall we go to bed now?" when trying to get your little ones off to bed in the evening! Really??

Again, not sure if it's just a language thing, i.e. the way things are phrased. I just think imo that it's weird to give a kid an option when there isn't one. Kind of agreeing with one of my older Swedish colleagues..

And agree with that of court when there is an option, that's great.. It's also strange to me in direct comparison to how Stockholmers interact with each other often using as few words as possible.

Thanks for the replies so far..

[entry]

There is a very popular publication that deals with this topic. It is almost required reading for executives and really does give insight into thinking and behavior.

By coincidence it may have been written by a man of Swedish decent.

Do not be put off by the title. The observations put forth are very profound and I see how it is applicable socially not just for business practices & perhaps with child rearing.

How to Win Friends & Influence People - Dale Carnegie

[Yorkshireman]

Of-course children should be allowed to decide ... but the parents should decide when the children can

[JuJuBeeLyn]

I never under stand why parents do this. I think some parents do this in a lot of cultures. It's like when people ask their kids "OK?" such as "You are going to wear this, ok?" I always said "Do you understand?" That is what you are really asking and does not imply that you are giving a choice when you cannot. I always try to give a choice when possible, but with my control. I give a choice of 2 outfits for the day. both are acceptable choices for me so either one is fine, but it gives a sense of freedom and responsibility.

Juju

[gplusa]

I think that a few of you are over-complicating the issue here. It's not as simple as a direct translation. It may well read as a question to a native English speaking person when translated into English, but it's not viewed as a question by a native Swedish speaking person when spoken in Swedish. They understand exactly what it means.

[byke]

"Children should be seen but not heard".

Maybe this was lost in translation, and that is why "Parents should be seen but not heard", especially true with the vogue squad in some parts of Stockholm.

#wheresmyhairgel?