(edit title) Non-EU PhD candidates cannot skirt Immigration There has been lots of nonsense spouted Rating Options

[entry]

@19:51 May 25, 2012 by Iraniboy
http://www.thelocal.se/40884#comment740307
"@entry

Of course you are misinformed! You have proved it several times! The last one is that apparently don't know is that this motion is rejected by parliament committee(utskott) because it is already approved by the government! So the reason for rejecting is approval of government not extreme delusional thinking and hate of foreigners. Like I said before the idea behind motion is not rejected even among most extreme Swedish parties so people like you are extremely underrepresented in Sweden I'm afraid.",

Iraniboy, once again, you have been measured, weighed and found to be lacking.

The majority of the statements that you have made that were on point with the discussion in the news forum have been discredited along with the multitude of irrelevant emotional outbursts that you have subjected us.

Your invocation of anti-foreigner aka RACIST insinuations were not only unfounded but offensive. Your leftist bank just called and informed us that your "Race Card" is over drawn and you need to be reported to the proper authorities. No surprise there.

Jag pratade med Riksdagens informationsavdelning. De sa att Motion 2011/12: Sf259 skall debatteras imorgon Maj 30 2012 klockan 9:00. Jag fick veta att de redan beslutat att avslå alla förslag. Motionen kommer inte att gå igenom.

I spoke to the Riksdag's information department. They said that Motion 2011/12: Sf259 is going up for debate tomorrow, Tuesday 30 May 2012 at 9 a.m. I was also informed that they have already decided to reject all proposals. This motion is not going to go through. Iraniboy, talks out of his posterior.

So Iraniboy, we do not even have to wait until tomorrow 30 May 2012 to find out how off the beaten path you and your ilk were with this blatant attempt to skirt the Swedish Immigration practices.

It seems I have given you too much trust and believed that it was possible you were actually an individual that was credible. In fact it turns out it was entirely unnecessary for me to contact every political party and every member of the Swedish Riksdag to learn that you were just one of the multitude of leftist activists speaking the typical argumentum ad verecundiam.

Immigration is a topic that is very sensitive. It is myopically viewed. I view immigration in an economic and social sense with my own myopic blinders. Immigration should be viewed as an opportunity for the recieving country. However, it does not benefit a country that is saturated with berry pickers enduring high unemployment in that industry to grant work visas or PUTs to itinerant immigrant berry pickers from other countries. There just are not enough jobs to go around in that field or industry. The same can be said for the student PhD candidates that you(and Puffin, sorry Puffin but you put your two öre in a long time ago) deem as actual full time workers instead of apprentice students. You talk of brain drain but in practical experience we see a brain stain and a drain on social services. A dishwasher and a PhD candidate have equality on the metro ride to the airport. The difference is that the dishwashers regardless if they are Swedish, EU or Non-EU have equal opportunity to fly out of Sweden but the dishwasher can pay the rent for the family appartment and provide food on the table. The dishwasher has a better chance of having a job tomorrow and providing food and shelter for the growing family. Your sole justification for skirting the Swedish Immigration process is that the Swedish Workers Unions hungry for Union Dues and revenue have manage to classify some student research activities as employment. This has not fooled even the leftist moderates who are now in the majority of the Riksdag nor the even further to the left Social Democrats.

Puffin and Iraniboy have made points that I agree. I believe that in some cases PhD researchers are being used for cheap labor. On this matter I have differing thoughts. The PhD student or the junior PhD in a research project does the lion's share of the work. That is life and I think that the graduate candidate being exposed to the realities of the real world is a good thing. Academic life does not in the remotest sense reflect reality.

If PhD research programs were to be changed so that PhD candidate positions were in fact employee positions as part of a fast track program within the university itself or the sponsoring company that funds the program I would have no problem at all with Non-EU or EU graduates being granted PUTs after four years. As it stands now I think that four years for a PUT is entirely too short and has been demonstrated to be detrimental to Swedish society. I include myself in the argument as I although am retired own properties elsewhere and do not speak fluent Swedish but bring outside monies into Sweden.

The idea of granting students PhD researchers or otherwise & their families with Swedish PUTs after four years of remaining in the classroom or lab without regard for the student completing the study and being accredited or gaining employment by a company within Sweden's borders is not only ludicrous to me but by every political party within Sweden. This is why tomorrow's Motion Sf259 will be debated in the Riksdag and soundly rejected by all political parties in Sweden. Your false statements and ancillary tidbits of student life have been demonstrated to be irrelevant.

Iraniboy you have even gone so far in your farce of PhD inequality to equate students who have been given an apprenticeship student PhD opportunity position with hard working legal immigrants that work at companies like McDonalds. You have denigrated workers in general and workers within the service industry in particular. The worker in McDonalds if they are in fact Non-EU have not applied to Sweden's migration board for a work visa to work at McDonalds. I challenge you to stand by your absurd statements. A non-EU temporary resident working as an employee at a McDonalds is head and shoulders above a recent PhD graduate that is unable or unwilling to work for a company within the boarders of Sweden. How dare you denigrate good working people in favor of academics who have not been able to latch on to public funds to continue their often worthless lifestyle!!!

Iraniboy, You, Puffin and some others have brought forth the concept that the tradition of the last thousands of years of apprenticeship is now recognized by Swedish labor unions seeking revenue and membership as a farsical job paying a livable wage instead of the age old high level student recieving a stipend allowing them a crust of bread and a cot. I am somewhat sympathetic with this concept that you and Puffin have brought forward.

If the research positions at Universities that are sponsored by high tech industries are actual jobs they should be jobs with a living wage. If these are high tech jobs with a living wage that will also yield a PhD degree I think that is great. If that were the case I believe that current employers of the sponsoring research companies would offer the PhD programs as a fast track within the company to existing employees.

Your willful denial of history and the 1000s of years of history of the apprenticeship programs does not discredit the facts on the matter of Motion Sf259.

Iraniboy you have not given the Swedish government credit for recognizing the flaws in this proposal. This proposal is poorly worded, horribly flawed, recognized by all political parties and you as usual have pulled out your "Race Card" and attempted to discredit all opposition to your wild ideas.

Motion Sf259 will be rejected and discredited by all political parties and recognized by all members of the Swedish Parliament as an end run around Swedish Immigration.

Swedish PhD graduates with a metro card are able to take a tram to the airport just like all other non-PhD holders. PhD graduates who have demonstrated that they are of value to Sweden and have gained a permanent employment research position they are well on their way to success in Sweden. Others that have chosen fields that are not currently in demand within Sweden can be grateful for the opportunity of having earned such a level in their chosen field and offer their services to other countries needing their talents or in their own countries where I am sure that the case being that they could not even be schooled or apprenticed there it would be greatly appreciated.

Your false statements have done nothing but polarize the discussion.

[Ugly Indian]

My reaction after this

[Bender B Rodriquez]

@19:51 May 25, 2012 by Iraniboy http://www.thelocal.se/40884#comment740307"@entryOf course you are misinformed! You have proved it several times! The last one is ... (show full quote)

@19:51 May 25, 2012 by Iraniboy
http://www.thelocal.se/40884#comment740307
"@entry

Of course you are misinformed! You have proved it several times! The last one is that apparently don't know is that this motion is rejected by parliament committee(utskott) because it is already approved by the government! So the reason for rejecting is approval of government not extreme delusional thinking and hate of foreigners. Like I said before the idea behind motion is not rejected even among most extreme Swedish parties so people like you are extremely underrepresented in Sweden I'm afraid.",

Iraniboy, once again, you have been measured, weighed and found to be lacking.

The majority of the statements that you have made that were on point with the discussion in the news forum have been discredited along with the multitude of irrelevant emotional outbursts that you have subjected us.

Your invocation of anti-foreigner aka RACIST insinuations were not only unfounded but offensive. Your leftist bank just called and informed us that your "Race Card" is over drawn and you need to be reported to the proper authorities. No surprise there.

Jag pratade med Riksdagens informationsavdelning. De sa att Motion 2011/12: Sf259 skall debatteras imorgon Maj 30 2012 klockan 9:00. Jag fick veta att de redan beslutat att avslå alla förslag. Motionen kommer inte att gå igenom.

I spoke to the Riksdag's information department. They said that Motion 2011/12: Sf259 is going up for debate tomorrow, Tuesday 30 May 2012 at 9 a.m. I was also informed that they have already decided to reject all proposals. This motion is not going to go through. Iraniboy, talks out of his posterior.

So Iraniboy, we do not even have to wait until tomorrow 30 May 2012 to find out how off the beaten path you and your ilk were with this blatant attempt to skirt the Swedish Immigration practices.

It seems I have given you too much trust and believed that it was possible you were actually an individual that was credible. In fact it turns out it was entirely unnecessary for me to contact every political party and every member of the Swedish Riksdag to learn that you were just one of the multitude of leftist activists speaking the typical argumentum ad verecundiam.

Immigration is a topic that is very sensitive. It is myopically viewed. I view immigration in an economic and social sense with my own myopic blinders. Immigration should be viewed as an opportunity for the recieving country. However, it does not benefit a country that is saturated with berry pickers enduring high unemployment in that industry to grant work visas or PUTs to itinerant immigrant berry pickers from other countries. There just are not enough jobs to go around in that field or industry. The same can be said for the student PhD candidates that you(and Puffin, sorry Puffin but you put your two öre in a long time ago) deem as actual full time workers instead of apprentice students. You talk of brain drain but in practical experience we see a brain stain and a drain on social services. A dishwasher and a PhD candidate have equality on the metro ride to the airport. The difference is that the dishwashers regardless if they are Swedish, EU or Non-EU have equal opportunity to fly out of Sweden but the dishwasher can pay the rent for the family appartment and provide food on the table. The dishwasher has a better chance of having a job tomorrow and providing food and shelter for the growing family. Your sole justification for skirting the Swedish Immigration process is that the Swedish Workers Unions hungry for Union Dues and revenue have manage to classify some student research activities as employment. This has not fooled even the leftist moderates who are now in the majority of the Riksdag nor the even further to the left Social Democrats.

Puffin and Iraniboy have made points that I agree. I believe that in some cases PhD researchers are being used for cheap labor. On this matter I have differing thoughts. The PhD student or the junior PhD in a research project does the lion's share of the work. That is life and I think that the graduate candidate being exposed to the realities of the real world is a good thing. Academic life does not in the remotest sense reflect reality.

If PhD research programs were to be changed so that PhD candidate positions were in fact employee positions as part of a fast track program within the university itself or the sponsoring company that funds the program I would have no problem at all with Non-EU or EU graduates being granted PUTs after four years. As it stands now I think that four years for a PUT is entirely too short and has been demonstrated to be detrimental to Swedish society. I include myself in the argument as I although am retired own properties elsewhere and do not speak fluent Swedish but bring outside monies into Sweden.

The idea of granting students PhD researchers or otherwise & their families with Swedish PUTs after four years of remaining in the classroom or lab without regard for the student completing the study and being accredited or gaining employment by a company within Sweden's borders is not only ludicrous to me but by every political party within Sweden. This is why tomorrow's Motion Sf259 will be debated in the Riksdag and soundly rejected by all political parties in Sweden. Your false statements and ancillary tidbits of student life have been demonstrated to be irrelevant.

Iraniboy you have even gone so far in your farce of PhD inequality to equate students who have been given an apprenticeship student PhD opportunity position with hard working legal immigrants that work at companies like McDonalds. You have denigrated workers in general and workers within the service industry in particular. The worker in McDonalds if they are in fact Non-EU have not applied to Sweden's migration board for a work visa to work at McDonalds. I challenge you to stand by your absurd statements. A non-EU temporary resident working as an employee at a McDonalds is head and shoulders above a recent PhD graduate that is unable or unwilling to work for a company within the boarders of Sweden. How dare you denigrate good working people in favor of academics who have not been able to latch on to public funds to continue their often worthless lifestyle!!!

Iraniboy, You, Puffin and some others have brought forth the concept that the tradition of the last thousands of years of apprenticeship is now recognized by Swedish labor unions seeking revenue and membership as a farsical job paying a livable wage instead of the age old high level student recieving a stipend allowing them a crust of bread and a cot. I am somewhat sympathetic with this concept that you and Puffin have brought forward.

If the research positions at Universities that are sponsored by high tech industries are actual jobs they should be jobs with a living wage. If these are high tech jobs with a living wage that will also yield a PhD degree I think that is great. If that were the case I believe that current employers of the sponsoring research companies would offer the PhD programs as a fast track within the company to existing employees.

Your willful denial of history and the 1000s of years of history of the apprenticeship programs does not discredit the facts on the matter of Motion Sf259.

Iraniboy you have not given the Swedish government credit for recognizing the flaws in this proposal. This proposal is poorly worded, horribly flawed, recognized by all political parties and you as usual have pulled out your "Race Card" and attempted to discredit all opposition to your wild ideas.

Motion Sf259 will be rejected and discredited by all political parties and recognized by all members of the Swedish Parliament as an end run around Swedish Immigration.

Swedish PhD graduates with a metro card are able to take a tram to the airport just like all other non-PhD holders. PhD graduates who have demonstrated that they are of value to Sweden and have gained a permanent employment research position they are well on their way to success in Sweden. Others that have chosen fields that are not currently in demand within Sweden can be grateful for the opportunity of having earned such a level in their chosen field and offer their services to other countries needing their talents or in their own countries where I am sure that the case being that they could not even be schooled or apprenticed there it would be greatly appreciated.

Your false statements have done nothing but polarize the discussion. ... (hide full quote)

As a researcher I must say that you seem to have absolutely no clue on how it works at Swedish universities.

A PhD is in general an advertised research position at a Swedish university, equal to any other time limited research position (which many are today). It is in no way cheap labor (around 25-30k/month at technical unis) and the hiring procedure works exactly as for other jobs.

If other temporary jobs count towards a PUT it would be consistent if a such a PhD position also would count. I don't see any reason to discriminate here, especially since all other temporary government jobs count.

For consistency, I would rather require that only time from a permanent position would count towards a PUT. Temporary work should simply not count, no matter if private or public.

[entry]

Bender, would a PhD graduate candidate qualify for unemployment benefits immediately after receiving their accreditation? Why would this highly qualified researcher have their employment terminated just because they received their PhD? In the real world this would only make that employee more attractive. What you are saying does not ring true. One of your researchers that has earned their PhD and suddenly, surprisingly finds that the University that they have been 'working' no longer has use for them and finds that no other company in Sweden wishes to hire them why would offering them a PUT be beneficial?

Individuals that have come to Sweden have not come to Sweden on a work visa to work at McDonalds or other temporary work positions. They are here for other reasons, such as family attachment or refugee status. The comparison is ludicrous.

I see absolutely no benefit to Sweden of awarding a PhD student that has demonstrated that they have no marketable skills that companies in Sweden and the University that they are associated with have rejected.

Here is your PhD, you called it a job, we don't want you on University grounds and no other company in Sweden wants to hire you for your chosen accredited field of research. Why should they stay in Sweden? What use would they serve here? Is the goal to have more highly educated individuals unemployed?

I would have no problem if the sponsoring research companies offered their own employees or other Swedish workers or even EU and non-EU candidates salaried positions as junior researchers with educational benefits.

If it is a job, why does that job end after a PhD is awarded? This does not make sense.

Regardless, Motion 2011/12 Sf259 is dead in the water and students believing that they had a new venue to skirt Sweden's immigration laws will have to look elsewhere. -Paul

[Bender B Rodriquez]

Bender, would a PhD graduate candidate qualify for unemployment benefits immediately after receiving their accreditation?

Yes, they do if they join an A-kassa. PhD candidates with salaried positions pay tax, contribute to social security and have pension plans, just like everyone else.

Why would this highly qualified researcher have their employment terminated just because they received their PhD? In the real world this would only make that employee more att ... (show full quote)

Why would this highly qualified researcher have their employment terminated just because they received their PhD? In the real world this would only make that employee more attractive. What you are saying does not ring true. One of your researchers that has earned their PhD and suddenly, surprisingly finds that the University that they have been 'working' no longer has use for them and finds that no other company in Sweden wishes to hire them why would offering them a PUT be beneficial? ... (hide full quote)

It is a time limited position. Plenty of such positions exist everywhere in both academia and industry due to project funding constraints.

In academia the traditional route after a PhD is to either to go to industry or work a couple of years as a post-doc at a different university before returning to the alma mater. This is to promote collaboration and prevent "inbreeding" at universities. To think that universities import PhD candidates purely as cheap labor is poppycock. A PhD position is very expensive for the university and most universities would like to keep their PhDs long after their dissertation, however for above reasons it is not customary to offer a continued position at the same university. Instead you hire another post-doc and let your PhD candidate go, in the hope that he will return after a post-doc elsewhere.

You don't seem to grasp the issue here. The issue is the following:
1. If you secure job you get a temporary work permit. It does not matter that the job is time limited. After a number of years of possibly different time limited jobs you can get a PUT, since any time on a work permit counts towards PUT.
2.If you secure a salaried PhD position (which btw is extremely competitive) you get a student permit even though it is a salaried job like every other time limited job. However, the time of employment does not count towards a PUT since the employee is on a student permit.

Do you see the point in why discriminating between 1 and 2 is strange?

If it is a salaried PhD position it should be on a work permit and be treated as any other time limited position.

[Bender B Rodriquez]

Also, it is ridiculous to think that counting the time as a PhD candidate towards PUT will open up some kind of free flow of immigrants.

In the first place, securing a PhD position is extremely difficult, with fierce competition.
Secondly, 90% of PhDs in Sweden find employment directly after finishing and 95% of those work in areas suited for their qualification, so it not like there are loads of PhDs roaming the streets.

However, it is unfair is that those PhDs who have already had employment for 5 years upon finishing need another 4 years of employment to qualify for PUT. One should count some of that time too.

Motion 2011/12 Sf259 is dead because it proposed several other unpopular changes regarding work permits. However, part of easing up the process for PhD candidates was acknowledged by the parliament as you can see here under Förslagspunkt 1 and 2:
http://www.riksdagen.se/sv/Dokument-Lagar/...erig_GZ02Sf259/

So, my guess is that it is just a matter of time before we see a new proposal specifically aimed at PhD candidates. Likely they will introduce a special permit for PhD candidates that will count towards PUT if you secure further employment afterwards, which sounds reasonable.

[entry]

Secondly, 90% of PhDs in Sweden find employment directly after finishing and 95% of those work in areas suited for their qualification, so it not like there are loads of PhDs roaming the streets.

If in fact we are talking about only 5-10 percent of all PhDs who are unable to find employment after being accredited I see the law as a non-issue.

Motion 2011/12 Sf259 is dead because it proposed several other unpopular changes regarding work permits. However, part of easing up the process for PhD candidates was acknowle ... (show full quote)

Motion 2011/12 Sf259 is dead because it proposed several other unpopular changes regarding work permits. However, part of easing up the process for PhD candidates was acknowledged by the parliament as you can see here under Förslagspunkt 1 and 2:
http://www.riksdagen.se/sv/Dokument-Lagar/...erig_GZ02Sf259/ ... (hide full quote)

Motion Sf259 was much too broad and unacceptable to me and apparently the govt. In Förslagspunkt 2, I see several other motions that contain some items that address my concerns. It would take me some time to review them. However; this issue will come under debate tomorrow and all the motions may be shuffled around with additional motions possibly inserted(I don't know how this all works - yet).

So, my guess is that it is just a matter of time before we see a new proposal specifically aimed at PhD candidates. Likely they will introduce a special permit for PhD candida ... (show full quote)

So, my guess is that it is just a matter of time before we see a new proposal specifically aimed at PhD candidates. Likely they will introduce a special permit for PhD candidates that will count towards PUT if you secure further employment afterwards, which sounds reasonable. ... (hide full quote)

I believe over time your guess will be proven correct. The additional motions refining Sf259 seem to be heading in the right direction. A clearly defined and refined version of Sf259 hinging on employment would be something I would not object. Thanks for pointing Förslagspunkt 2 out to me.

Bender, If you happen to have a link to a source that shows PhDs in Sweden finding employment directly after finishing, I would be interested in reviewing that.

[entry]

As a researcher I must say that you seem to have absolutely no clue on how it works at Swedish universities.

...and as a Swedish citizen who has reviewed 2011/12 Sf259 I should point out that your statement is immaterial as Sf259 was not restricted to research positions.

As I stated in the previous comment there seems to be refinement spread across several additional motions that seem to satisfy my concerns.

[entry]

Bender,

Why does the Swedish government have to be involved at all. Why do laws need to be changed? Why can't Universities make the research positions actual jobs in the fullest sense and if the position is best filled by a non-EU individual that individual would go through the normal work visa process?

It seems to me that individual universities can remedy this situation much more rapidly than the Swedish government.

[axiom]

I started to pen a reply to this, but that would just be flogging a dead horse, AGAIN

All the answers you seek are out there.

Two points however:

1. The motion tomorrow will be rejected for reasons that it duplicates another proposal currently being drafted by the government

2. Migrationsverket has actually explained why the government needs to be involved vis-a-vis PhD candidates and work permits.

[Yorkshireman]

1. If you secure job you get a temporary work permit. It does not matter that the job is time limited. After a number of years of possibly different time limited jobs you can ... (show full quote)

1. If you secure job you get a temporary work permit. It does not matter that the job is time limited. After a number of years of possibly different time limited jobs you can get a PUT, since any time on a work permit counts towards PUT. ... (hide full quote)

This is not always so.

You can get a work permit to come into Sweden as an Expert, there are special tax breaks, but the condition is that you must leave within 5 years.

I would argue that PhD's should be considered as temporary experts, have the special tax breaks, and return home. All in the spirit of circular migration.

One has to decide what the reason for coming to Sweden in the 1st place was, was it for the Research position, or was it for settlement?

Work Permits are temporary even when the intention is for work and settlement, it has to be proven that the intention is to settle, and You must continue to be employed.

Sambo come with the intention of settlement, but still have to depend upon the relationship for a minimum of 2 years.

Student are coming for study, it is expected that they leave once studies completed.

Researchers are coming for research, surely? Or was it for settlement also? How could it be, it was known from the start the position is temporary!

[mångk]

It is a time limited position. Plenty of such positions exist everywhere in both academia and industry due to project funding constraints.You don't seem to grasp the issue ... (show full quote)

It is a time limited position. Plenty of such positions exist everywhere in both academia and industry due to project funding constraints.

You don't seem to grasp the issue here. The issue is the following:
1. If you secure job you get a temporary work permit. It does not matter that the job is time limited. After a number of years of possibly different time limited jobs you can get a PUT, since any time on a work permit counts towards PUT.
2.If you secure a salaried PhD position (which btw is extremely competitive) you get a student permit even though it is a salaried job like every other time limited job. However, the time of employment does not count towards a PUT since the employee is on a student permit. ... (hide full quote)

Bender,

I am going to have to disagree here.

The objective of the PhD position is the studies. It is a student position.

It is not a position that is available to suitably skilled workers, A suitably skilled non-PhD student cannot take this position.

PhD students do not have the same requirements as other employees in terms of Migration. They have the same requirements as students and if the position ends they are not required to return to their home country, they stay until their studies are finished (so long as they still meet the student requirements).

Do you see the point in why discriminating between 1 and 2 is strange?

It is not discriminating, the arguments most PhD students have been putting forward about their 'worth' to Swedish society when compared to other migrants is.

PhD students have no more worth than an asylum seeker.

If it is a salaried PhD position it should be on a work permit and be treated as any other time limited position.

IF the criteria for selection is the same as for those who apply for a work permit, then by all means! But the nature of the position already dictates that it is not.

As Yorkshireman has pointed out, the Migration policies are based on the intended purpose, and if you have a look at the Swedish laws regarding PhD positions the primary purpose is the studies. They are students that have secondary employment and in reality are no different than a masters student who cleans toilets at McD's part-time.

What annoys me is that the majority of arguments put forward by so-called PhD students is that they are nonsensical and typically counter-productive. If the arguments put forward are representative of the 'skills' that they bring, then how are they of benefit to society?

[Yorkshireman]

If a PhD is such a huge value, as is often claimed. Then why should they fear not being given a PUT directly after their studies are completed?

Obviously, with such a huge value any job they are offered after their research is completed would last long enough to eventually be granted a PUT.

Temporary workers coming into Sweden are given work permits only for 2 years initially, even though they may have employment contracts that are indefinate. There are all the reasons behind that that we all know, but the main thing is that if the position is lost for whatever reason, the permit is withdrawn. If they find a new job, they have to apply for a new permit.

The difference here, if You wish to consider PhD's as workers, is that it is KNOWN from the start that the position is TEMPORARY ... so the intention clearly is not for settlement, is it?

And since it is temporary, the PhD must find a job, apply for work permit, otherwise like those with normal work permits ... leave.

What is the benefit for Sweden in allowing an unemployed PhD stay, along with their family members?
If the PhD is not unemployed, they apply for a work permit, and can stay anyway.

No need to change the law there in My opinion

[entry]

Motion 2011/12 Sf259 is dead in the water.

The pretended spirit of the motion with regards to non-EU high level researchers I really have no problem.

At this time I fail to see a need to change the existing immigration laws in Sweden.

Universities and the companies that sponsor the research can circumvent all obstacles by creating an actual position of employment. In doing so all EU mandates regarding Non-EU applicants for work Visas will be met.

Motion 2011/12 Sf259 was too broad and deemed unacceptable by every political party in Sweden. Sf259 would have granted a PUT to every member of the family in PhD programs in Art, Philosophy, basket weaving or any of the more ridiculous fields of study that have absolutely no economic potential here in Sweden. Sf259 had no stipulations that a student complete the course of study nor be able to gain employment after they had been granted PUTs for themselves and their families.

There are however many Motions that Bender has pointed me towards which do remedy the adverse situations that might possibly face the small number of high level researchers that are affected by restrictions in Sweden's immigration policies. I do not see at this time that this is necessary. Universities and the companies that sponsor the research can on a case by case manner offer a JOB if it is a JOB or tell a student with family in tow that has a primary interest in circumventing the immigration process to look for a different path because you are a student being given the opportunity to receive a high level accreditation in your field of study and that is it. If you have no hope in ever being employed in Sweden with the absence of any family connections, Sweden really does not need highly educated unemployed heads of households.

[axiom]

Motion 2011/12 Sf259 was dead even before it was proposed. I think you are missing a point, it wasn't dead because all parties disagreed with it, actually quite the reverse Motion 2011/12 Sf259 proposed nothing different from SOU 2011:28 as far as it concerns PhD candidates. It is worth pointing out that no one has raised any credible objection to the proposals in SOU 2011:28.

The problem is slightly more political. In Sweden, like most other parliamentary democracies, any politician can introduce a bill or a peice of legislation. However, the government which usually has a majority prefers that any such bills originate from the government or cabinet itself. The common practice therefore is to reject such proposals, especially when the government is considering something similar. Hence the following reason for the rejection:

För den som antagits till utbildning på forskarnivå föreslår Kommittén för cirkulär migration och utveckling i sitt slutbetänkande att det ska införas en ny tillståndsform, uppehållstillstånd för doktorander. Denna tillståndsform ska exempelvis ge möjlighet att kvalificera sig för ett permanent uppehållstillstånd. . . . Regeringens beredning av betänkandet bör avvaktas. Motion 2011/12:Sf259 (FP) avstyrks med det anförda.

So it is not that it is so broad everyone rejected it hands down, but rather we are already thinking about this, so wait until we are done.

You see the problem is rooted in an understanding of PhDs, if someone gets a PhD to study basket weaving then someone is interested in basket weaving, there is some fundamental economic or social benefit it understanding this. I met someone a few years ago who was doing a PhD around stacking cardboard boxes. Sounds simple, even laughable when you hear it, but this company of course wanted to create the most stackable boxes for moving and storage, and they wanted it to come from the Sweden and its paper industry. Now when this person is finished, will he be working the rest of his life making stackable boxes?, of course not he has gained a huge depth of knowledge in the paper industry, analytical mathematics, structural physics, etc the different feilds he can move into is of exponential magnitude. It is like saying everyone who studied Chemistry becomes a career Chemist, nothing could be further from the truth.

You cannot simplify everything so easily.