(edit title) Spinning the Spin on Wikileaks. Lets talk about what wikileaks uncovered. Options

[SOIS.COM]

Rather than focus the argument on Assange to balance the forums out lets use this thread to discuss what Wikileaks has uncovered about Sweden and elsewhere. I would rather see the arguments turned towards the misbehaving governments and their political officials made to pay for their behavior via lengthy prison sentences rather than target the people that are uncovering their behavior which violates the public trust.

Kicking it off.

1. "Swedish weapons were used by both sides in the Iraq war, according to around 400,000 classified U.S. files released by WikiLeaks last week. The website’s founder, Julian Assange, who was refused residency in Sweden a few days before, claimed that the “truth” about the war justified WikiLeaks’ action. The 2004-2009 documents show that around 15,000 more civilians were killed than had previously been reported.

Amongst weaponry appearing in the WikiLeaks files are Carl Gustav recoilless anti-tank rifles, plus a variety of ammunition and even some old Swedish sub-machine guns. With about 200 mentions, Saab’s world-renowned AT4 light anti-tank weapon featured most prominently in the files, with the U.S. having purchased more than half a million.

Another disclosure refers to the U.S. launch of a Swedish Excalibur grenade which killed Abu Yasin – an HVT (high-value target) according to the American military – and 17 others in 2007."

2. WikiLeaks accuses Swedish FM of spying for US

and "Sweden should become a wold power"

Here is a link to the Cablegate 100. While these files are rather old its important to point out that wikileaks has leaked more about governments in a few years than all of the worlds newspapers combined in the last 20. Most press, in most countries, are institutions that are just an appendage of the state and/or government. A third source is needed to keep governments and corporations in check and to me that source is wikileaks, cryptome, et. al.

[skogsbo]

1. "Swedish weapons were used by both sides in the Iraq war, according to around 400,000 classified U.S. files released by WikiLeaks last week. The website’s founder, Jul ... (show full quote)

1. "Swedish weapons were used by both sides in the Iraq war, according to around 400,000 classified U.S. files released by WikiLeaks last week. The website’s founder, Julian Assange, who was refused residency in Sweden a few days before, claimed that the “truth” about the war justified WikiLeaks’ action. ... (hide full quote)

The actions of a spoilt child?

What about those gullible people who will do prison times because they stole the secrets he released? Isn't he then responsible too?

The fact that politics, business and war is interlinked is just part of mans' history, name me a nation where it isn't? The perfect state you seem to imagine or dream of?

The fact that you are able to sit at your computer where ever you are and post this stuff, the fact that you were able to have an education that last somewhere between say 12 and 18years? It is all because of your previous decendants wars etc.. otherwise you would probably be at the mercy of some other nation state.

[byke]

This seemed fitting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOhXpmozpbE

[SOIS.COM]

The actions of a spoilt child?What about those gullible people who will do prison times because they stole the secrets he released? Isn't he then responsible too? The fact ... (show full quote)

The actions of a spoilt child?

What about those gullible people who will do prison times because they stole the secrets he released? Isn't he then responsible too?

The fact that politics, business and war is interlinked is just part of mans' history, name me a nation where it isn't? The perfect state you seem to imagine or dream of?

The fact that you are able to sit at your computer where ever you are and post this stuff, the fact that you were able to have an education that last somewhere between say 12 and 18years? It is all because of your previous decendants wars etc.. otherwise you would probably be at the mercy of some other nation state. ... (hide full quote)

I am not going to get into a debate with you here as from reading your posts you come across as a troll and your comments are not in the spirit of this thread. There are many other Assange attack threads here on the forums apparently they are not enough for you.

Here is some commentary by Rick Falkvinge from a cable uncovered by wikileaks and its association with the FRA law. I remember when David Merkel, who used to work for Condolezza Rice came to Sweden to supposedly help administrate an internet ID protocol but was actually helping the Swedes to tap internet traffic including Russia's for the purpose of US analysis systems to disseminate the data...that did not come from wikileaks, that came from Bourbon leaks, because David's kids used to go to the school my kids do, and David would often leak such things after a few drinks. US spies are largely idiots.

[skogsbo]

I am not going to get into a debate with you here

Because you can't provide a satisfactory answer. If you believe in your god Assange so much, can I ask why? he is a dreamer, spinning some dream in his dream world. He rants about this and that, then when he is held accountable goes against everything he previously claimed to save himself. Assange would sell out his family and friends to make himself look good or avoid facing his accusers. He's already taken the money of his so called friends when he jumped bail.

Spying - everyone is at, industrial and military espionage is as old as wars itself. Nations spy on everyone, countries within Nato spy on each other, it protects their own interests. Companies spy on each other, locally and internationally, to get ideas and innovations. Everyone does it, local shops check out each others prices, it's all forms of spying and it can't be a secret to anyone that it is going on daily. If I throw in some keywords in this email, it is possible for it to get pick up somewhere, the same with texts.

[SOIS.COM]

Believe what you wish. If you want to claim you are the winner of an argument on the internet be my guest. I believe you are a troll and engaging in any conversation with you is a waste of my time.

Not all cables released were particularly sensitive or defaming. Some are rather humorous as the following one "Little hope for quick relief tom the great tonic water drought 2008-2009".

[skogsbo]

Believe what you wish. If you want to claim you are the winner of an argument on the internet be my guest. I believe you are a troll and engaging in any conversation with you is a waste of my time.

Nope, just correcting your errors and presumptions.

Not all cables released were particularly sensitive or defaming. Some are rather humorous as the following one

Others were extremely dangerous putting people lives at risk. If people wish to release such information, they should have the balls to publically stand up and be held accountable. Anything else is cowardice or perhaps aiding and abetting the other forces?

ps. You still haven't expanded in the other thread how you believe Swedish farms represent such a fantastic investment opportunity?

[byke]

I agree, if you see a crime happening and you report it to the police.
The police should be free to not only share your details, but also not protect you if said criminal comes after you.

/Its all about ballz.</Irony>

[skogsbo]

I agree, if you see a crime happening and you report it to the police.. The police should be free to not only share your details, but also not protect you if said criminal comes after you.

Sorry, I missed your point above?

Assange published lots of classified data abroad that put people lives at risk, I would say it's quite serious? Given the knock on effects of this, more serious than rape, as it has arguably(if you believe the internet) cost people their lives, but this is unproven of course, so it can't really be truly claimed, but it certainly hasn't improved things either.

[SOIS.COM]

To be found here:

According to Swedish television SVT, a yet-to-be-released cable from the U.S. Embassy in Stockholm reveals that Swedish authorities have secretly cooperated with the U.S. government handing over information about Swedish citizens, who might be associated with terrorism. According to the report the Swedish authorities knew about American surveillance of Swedish citizens but were hiding it from the public. Michael M. Wood, U.S. Ambassador to Sweden, writes in the leaked cable that this cooperation would not pass a parliamentary hearing, and that it could be unconstitutional. Nevertheless, he recommended to stick with the secret practice. Swedish Minister for Justice Beatrice Ask claimed she had no knowledge of this type of cooperation.

The U.S. government was very concerned about file-sharing-related issues in Sweden. The U.S. Embassy actively worked with the Swedish authorities to reduce file-sharing-related threats, including The Pirate Bay, a Swedish website, which was raided in 2006 following U.S. pressure. The diplomatic cables reveal how the U.S. pressured Sweden, despite the Swedish prosecutors' claim that there had been no political interference.

The Surveillance Detection Unit row, caused by US embassy personnel conducting secret surveillance on host country citizens and inhabitants. Shortly after the initial report in Norway, the Swedish government confirmed[88] that similar secret surveillance of residents of Stockholm had been sponsored by the U.S. Embassy there, and Justice Minister Beatrice Ask said that the authorities had yet to be adequately informed.[89] She described the situation as "very serious".[90] The Finnish newspaper Helsingin Sanomat referred to 2000 Swedes under surveillance by the US Embassy's SDU in Stockholm.[90]
Saab Gripen fighter contracts: lobbying successfully for the Lockheed Martin F-35 against the Gripen for the Norwegian Air Force, and with an eye also on further contracts with the Danish Air Force, the US Ambassador rehearsed the Swedish case for the release and installation of a US radar system in its planes (involvement in Afghanistan, Kosovo, Iraq; enhanced cooperation with NATO) before recommending an export license block be placed on the new system prior to the Norwegian decision.

[skogsbo]

According to Swedish television SVT, a yet-to-be-released cable from the U.S. Embassy in Stockholm reveals that Swedish authorities have secretly cooperated with the U.S. gove ... (show full quote)

According to Swedish television SVT, a yet-to-be-released cable from the U.S. Embassy in Stockholm reveals that Swedish authorities have secretly cooperated with the U.S. government handing over information about Swedish citizens, who might be associated with terrorism. ... (hide full quote)

Is it not logical that intelligence gathering organisations share information. If we can fly cross borders, so can terrorist. It can only be better for everyone. If you don't want to be talked about and investigated, don't engage in terrorism and associated acts?

In first 6 years post 9/11, British security forces / Int Services, either directly tracked and/or arrested 2000 people, not mention monitor their associates. This level of surveillance, probably helped prevent anything happening at the Olympics etc.

I presume you would rather have no intelligence services and acts of terror happening all the time? Killing innocent civilians versus tracking suspects?

[frenchviking]

If i had had access to this data and had an opportunity to publish it, i would probably not have done it... But it was his right to do so.
The people who leaked that information to him wanted it published or they would not have taken these risks i assume.

We cannot accept that our governments supress our freedom of speech.

And terrorism threats may be real, but these terrorism risks have been used for manipulation purposes by the us ans the uk in the past... How about the irak war??? And how did bush get reelected?

[Nomark]

We cannot accept that our governments supress our freedom of speech.

But the electorate does accept just that. In fact it wants it. Elected governments receive a democratic mandate to enforce laws maintaining secrecy in some areas.

If you want access to, eg, all diplomatic cables from country X then campaign in country X for this to happen through the democratic process. For someone to just grab the material if it happens to become available in whatever way and then disseminate it is (a) extremely reckless and dangerous if no redactions take place (and JA has little interest in redaction) and (b ) undemocratic (who campaigned for this degree of openness in government and who voted for it ?).

You also mention that it was "his right" to disseminate the information. Is it really ? Since elected governments have a mandate to legally keep some material confidential, he may well have broken a number of laws in various states. He doesn't even have a great whistle-blower defence since he applied no filtering to the material he obtained i.e. he didn't just select those items he thought were of public interest. Should he ever find himself in the US, he'd better hope that describing himself as a publisher gives him the legal protection that he thinks it does.

[Yorkshireman]

We cannot accept that our governments supress our freedom of speech.

Interesting concept!

Assange is Australian ... and Australia has no explicit freedom of speech in any constitutional or statutory declaration of rights, though there is an exception for political speech which protects one from criminal prosecution.

[skogsbo]

If i had had access to this data and had an opportunity to publish it, i would probably not have done it... But it was his right to do so.

If he knowingly published information that could put people lifes at risk, that is a criminal offence. Especially if he know it was obtained illegally, then he party to it. You also have to consider how much pressure he applied to people to obtain this information.