(edit title) Will we be able to live in Stockholm? Housing 2+baby for <10000SEK? Need advice ... Options

[MsFizz]

I realise this is a common and difficult to answer question and I have been reading through old forum posts here to get as much of an idea as I can. Still I'm hoping someone can advise regarding our specific situation.

My partner has been offered a job in Stockholm, working on Södermalm. We are very tempted because we like Sweden (we used to live in Denmark and visited Sweden often) but before accepting the job we desperately need to figure out if we would be able to find a place to live, for the two of us and our baby son. Unfortunately the prospective employer does not offer any assistance with finding housing.

We think we could afford to spend up to 10000 SEK, and would like to rent an apartment of at least 3 rooms, 70+ sqm. My partner would like to have a bike commute (to Södermalm), maximum 10 km, and also have the option of public transport for when the weather is particularly foul. We have been living without a car for many years and would prefer to stay that way.

Does this sound feasible, difficult or impossible? Are any of you already living in apartments which meet this description? Can someone suggest the best areas to look at to find something within our budget?

Buying could be an option but we would greatly prefer to at least begin by renting so we have some time to get to know the city better before making a big financial commitment.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

[byke]

10k a month for just rent or living in general?

[MsFizz]

10k a month for rent.

[byke]

10k usually covers rent for an apartment of 70sqm as you have specified.
However this Type of rent is usually for those with a first hand contract.

Unfortunately the rental market in Stockholm is very tough.
Look over this forum and you will see constant refernces to the problems faced.
So many people opt to paying much higher amounts due to the lack of possibilities.

I think it says a lot about the situation, that your partners potential employer doesn't wish to supply or cover the costs assosiated with finding a place.

[MsFizz]

Thanks -- I have been reading the forum and realise it is tough. What I'm trying to do now is figure out more specifically how tough it would be for us. For example it's helpful to know that 10k would be the first hand contract price for the kind of apartment I'm looking for -- thanks!
So now I am wondering, just how much higher are people paying to get this sort of apartment? (2k? 5k? 10k?)
And what sort of apartment can one actually get for 10k?
And in which areas within 10 km of the centre is the difference between what I want for 10k, and what I can get for 10k the smallest?

Maybe no one can know the answers to these questions, but any leads would be welcome.

[byke]

Generally prices are not relative to location.
More so luck and availlability.
And while it's easier to find a place that is a good commute away, this doesn't always reflect rental prices.

They are usually set by how much money the house has in the bank, and this is often dependent on how well the building has been managed, and how many years it's been registered as a collective house in regards to rent collected.

I know of families who live in a first hand contract who live a good distance away from the city and pay 9k for 70sqm.

For instance we own our apartment, yet even though we paid to purchase it, we pay close to 5k a month just in rent. Even though we have had to take out a mortgage to buy it.

In regards to prices, I know of families who pay 18k a month for a second hand contract.
And while rents are regulated, finding such a place is mission impossible.
And thus people do what they have to do given the market.

If I am completely honest, unless you plan to buy a place ... It's really tough.
And even buying a place is no walk in the park with most properties selling for at least 25% over the asking price within the city.

[Kinighty]

Dear MsFizz,

It isn't difficult to find a 3a in your budget..the only issue is where you would like to have it and why ... you may find a 3a close to Södermalm but you may have to compromise on the standard of living ie small apartment..what I would suggest is that you find an apartment somewhere in the south of Stockholm in 2nd hand ie subletting ..in a child friendly area close to the public transport...also the further south you go the more chances of long term subletting possible than compared to city center...until you find your 1st hand in the long queue all of us are in...
my 2 cents

[byke]

Also take into account that a second hand contract gives you very little rights.
You could find yourself getting kicked out from the house or renter for the oddest of reasons with very little notice. So you need to make allowances for such an event, especially if you have a small child.

Just be carefull ... As even finding a second hand contract can be tough or extremely exspensive.

This is why some international companies offer to include this as part of the allure to attract proffessionals.Although this is something we have seen a decline in due to the high cost escalation and problems finding places.

[Yorkshireman]

If You go the 2nd-hand contract root for an apartment, make absolutely sure that whoever You are renting from, before signing anything, can show clearly proof that they have permission from the building Owner. This is especially important if the apartment itself is a renting one ... since many companies do not like 2nd-hand contracts, if they find out that an apartment is rented out 2nd-hand both yourselves and the 1st-hand contract holder will be out on the street.

And remember ... whilst it may appear expensive, it is very common that people rent 2nd-hand, then after 1 year challenge the rent at the rent tribunal ... there is a special rule about them not being able to recover their totals costs, but mainly use-costs eg. If they have a loan + monthly rent, they can only charge monthly rent + a little (something like that!). If the rent is too high, then the person renting it out can be liable to back pay the difference for up to 12 months

...just to add, this testing if the rent is fair or not can be done after You move out ...even if You have lived there for 12 months, 24 months etc... they would still if found unfair, have to pay back 12 months difference.

[Shibumi]

Try to get your partner's company to pay for relocation fees. The main way to find decent rental apartments in Stockholm where the proprietor actually has the right to rent to you is http://www.bostaddirekt.com in their "corporate residence" listings. This service costs nothing for the proprietor but costs the renter a one time fee of (currently) 11 125 kr. That's more than a month's rent! Also, you have to have your company register you on the site to even have access to visit the properties. So if your partner's company refuses to pay the agency fee, you at least need to get their HR to register you and to be willing to (co-)sign the lease.

If you go through Bostad Direkt's private listings or through blocket.se you will find that the proprietors listing their flats there often fall into one of the following categories: a. do not have permission to sublet from their building co-op (the BRF), b. are asking too much over market price, c. have some kind of weird thing happening like they want to be able to break the contract practically overnight if their attempt at living together with the girl/boyfriend doesn't work out, or you would only rent part of the flat and have to share kitchen and bathroom, or some other thing that means that the flat does not qualify for "corporate" housing.

Keep in mind that listing a place as a "corporate residence" costs the proprietor nothing and gives them the feeling that they will get a better caliber of renter who is gainfully employed and backed by his/her company. They also think that they can turn to the employer for recourse in the case of unpaid rent or damage to the flat but I don't know if this is true. And as any reasonably (!) priced flat gets snapped up within a couple of days (in spite of the 11 000 kr agency fee), there really is no downside for proprietors who are on the "up and up" so to speak. Consequently, I would be wary of any proprietor who is not taking advantage of the "corporate housing" thing. The flat rental market in Stockholm is completely skewed by high demand and low supply.

Good luck!

[MsFizz]

Thanks to all who replied. I think we have a clearer picture now ... and not a very encouraging one! Unfortunately I don't think help from the employer is an option. (Prefer not to go into details about the employer on a public forum though.)

A further question ... I suppose, if things are so desperate, that the rental craziness extends as far out from Stockholm as one can possibly commute? Could we do better by travelling up to an hour (by public transport, not bike).

[Kinighty]

Definitely..you could get good independent houses along the commuter line corridor

[Localer]

unfortunately 10k would be almost to impossible to get you an over 70+sqm apartment in södermalm, but maybe around 50+ sqm.