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Self Employed UK, resident in Sweden Tax Advice

No UK company

beefpatty
post 15.Mar.2013, 09:35 PM
Post #31
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 3.Feb.2011

This is all a bit strange. I turned up here as self employed in the UK, but living here. I went to Skatteverket with some proof of my self employed income. Two weeks later I got my personal number through with all the tax stuff. I get a tax return every year to complete. Maybe I have done something wrong but I seem to have all the necessary paperwork, including the right to reside. The office I went to was in Kista and they were very helpful.
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philios33
post 16.Mar.2013, 01:13 AM
Post #32
Location: Gothenburg
Joined: 24.Sep.2012

Yorkshireman, go get a arsehole certificate from the Swedish police for your own failure to check the thread details. If you don't have anything useful to write, please don't bother replying smile.gif

Beefpatty, did you by any chance have a UK Ltd company?

I seriously do appreciate the free help I have received thus far from those that have given it, but as you can see (those of you that have read the thread) it seems a relatively simple procedure which I have attempted to follow was either incorrect advice or the lady at Skatt doesn't know what she's talking about.

I will visit migrationsverket in person again on Monday with all docs and insist they help me there and then. The income declaration forms will have to wait. Will update on progress.
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Taxalien
post 16.Mar.2013, 01:29 AM
Post #33
Joined: 24.Dec.2009

I am sorry but honestly what are you doing here?

You come here asking for advice, advice is given and then you totally ignore any advice you have received?

Who can help you with that kind of attitude?

It was very simple from the outset, just as you stated. You wanted to come here and you wanted to continue offering your services to the client you have in the UK.

That's where it all ends. You leave the UK and the UK has nothing further to offer you. You are in a totally different tax regime, one which doesn't have any kind of positive vibes about it. If you thought so, you must have just arrived from a different planet.

The question now is how you set yourself up so that you can actually continue to offer your services to your client, whilst paying taxes in the country you now have permanent residency in.

That question has been answered here in numerous threads when asked by many different people.

You basically have to register yourself as a company. There are little other options.

The simplest of those options is to start a Enskild firma. There is plenty of information you can obtain in English from the authorities here, so a) start reading cool.gif start acting and c) get your house in order.

If you don't, then I am in no doubts that you will effectively get to keep 0% of anything you have invoiced to date.

That's because they will back date VAT, they will charge National Insurance as an employee and they will charge income tax. And there are no basic allowances if you are trading without a proper company.

Expected tax rate if you do this, is probably 96% as is documented elsewhere when people add a side or hobby income on their tax declaration. Because that is effectively what you are doing now.

If and when you wake up and get things in order, then you will RCS invoice your client. That means charging no VAT. But you can't do that unless you are a VAT registered entity in Sweden and the client you have also is VAT registered in the UK. And you need to obtain that evidence and check that it is current, or else you will not satisfy the RCS rules.

I'll end this note by stating that I think you would do far better to have incorporated in the UK or incorporated in Sweden with an AB. But since you have some kind of aversion because I don't know what you are not listening and basically noone can help you.
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philios33
post 16.Mar.2013, 03:25 AM
Post #34
Location: Gothenburg
Joined: 24.Sep.2012

QUOTE (Taxalien @ 16.Mar.2013, 01:29 AM) *
I am sorry but honestly what are you doing here?. You come here asking for advice, advice is given and then you totally ignore any advice you have received?. Who can help you with that kind of attitude?

Here in Sweden or TL? Honestly? I am here to ask questions, gain knowledge, understand the situation and act on advice. I would be greatful if you point out which particular advice I have ignored. I know it's a long thread but I want to keep everything in the right place to help someone in my situation in the future.

If my attitude seems negative it's because I'm pissed off. Not at anyone in particular (myself, TL , Sweden, Migrationsverket or Skatterverket), but simply at the effort I have put in to doing this right and the zero progress I have made.

I also want to make it clear that I do appreciate your advice and that goes for anyone else that has helped me on TL. But I don't appreciate these sly remarks/jokes/flames that seem to pop up here and there. Not from you, but other individuals who think it's ok to highjack threads and start flame wars just because theres no moderation here. If you post on here to give me grief then be prepare to get some back.

QUOTE (Taxalien @ 16.Mar.2013, 01:29 AM) *
It was very simple from the outset, just as you stated. You wanted to come here and you wanted to continue offering your services to the client you have in the UK.

Correct

QUOTE (Taxalien @ 16.Mar.2013, 01:29 AM) *
That's where it all ends. You leave the UK and the UK has nothing further to offer you. You are in a totally different tax regime, one which doesn't have any kind of p ... (show full quote)

Sorry, but I don't understand. Where what ends? I'm not asking for anything from the UK. Also, i'm not interested in how many "positive vibes" there are in Sweden, or whether you think I am making the correct life decision. The decision has been made, and I'm living in Sweden. If you're referring to the higher taxes in Sweden than UK then I don't care.

QUOTE (Taxalien @ 16.Mar.2013, 01:29 AM) *
The question now is how you set yourself up so that you can actually continue to offer your services to your client, whilst paying taxes in the country you now have permanent ... (show full quote)

I have been given advice regarding migrationsverket but in fact, this is one of the things that HASN'T been answered here yet, and if it has then my appologies but I missed it. I understand that I need to create an enskildsfirma (or perhaps a proper company) at Skatt, but to do this I need right of residency certificate from Migration. To have right of residency (by self employed) you need a company. This is called an infinite loop and is the cause of all my problems. I am starting to think that perhaps I need to get some comprehensive insurance just so I can get right of residence by own funds, so that I can finally set up the company.

QUOTE (Taxalien @ 16.Mar.2013, 01:29 AM) *
If you don't, then I am in no doubts that you will effectively get to keep 0% of anything you have invoiced to date.That's because they will back date VAT, they will c ... (show full quote)

Correct. VAT, Social Fees & income tax are the things I expect to eventually pay once everything is sorted out. I noticed you have used the word employee. Are you sure this is correct considering we're talking about self employment/sole trader/enskildsfirma?

QUOTE (Taxalien @ 16.Mar.2013, 01:29 AM) *
And there are no basic allowances if you are trading without a proper company. Expected tax rate if you do this, is probably 96% as is documented elsewhere when people add a s ... (show full quote)

Yes, I suppose I am technically currently trading without a proper company but that is not a fault of my own, it is because I am waiting for Migrationsverket so I can register a company or enskildsfirma. This is actually my main source of income and not a hobby. I'm sorry but they can't expect me to stop trading while I wait for the certificate to come through.

QUOTE (Taxalien @ 16.Mar.2013, 01:29 AM) *
If and when you wake up and get things in order, then you will RCS invoice your client. That means charging no VAT. But you can't do that unless you are a VAT registered e ... (show full quote)

That's fine, they are VAT registered and I don't charge VAT. I assume by a valid VAT registered entity you mean company or enskildsfirma.

QUOTE (Taxalien @ 16.Mar.2013, 01:29 AM) *
I'll end this note by stating that I think you would do far better to have incorporated in the UK or incorporated in Sweden with an AB. But since you have some kind of ave ... (show full quote)

I accept my life may have been easier if I had, but the thread subtitle clearly states that I have "No UK Company". So it is a premise of this thread and not up for debate. However I did explain my reasons in this thread a couple of months back.
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philios33
post 28.Aug.2013, 01:29 PM
Post #35
Location: Gothenburg
Joined: 24.Sep.2012

OK so almost a year on I want to go back over this.

Some facts about me first:

1. I am not employed in the UK
2. I have a sole trader business in the UK (without a Ltd company)
3. I am now living and working in Sweden for UK companies
4. I invoice them monthly and get paid in to my UK bank account
5. I must pay taxes in Sweden and NOT in the UK

Some facts which I have learned of since:

1. There is no need to move money around between bank accounts, you are only obliged to declare your income to Skatteverket.
2. To do this for GBP, you need to use the official middle exchange rates declared on some websites. One of these sites is http://riksbank.se/
3. Invoicing from Sweden is technically illegal without registering as a Swedish entity first (enskildsfirma or company) Oops
4. Forget about red flags from HMRC or UK government. UK banks/government are not as strict as Sweden.

My story updated

I got a phone call to my GFs mobile and luckily she happened to be at home with me at the time. I spoke to this guy who was good at English and he cleared up the confusion. I think I ended up registering right of residency by being supported by Sambo (not sure). Anyway, I got the all important piece of paper from migrationsverket which states that I have the right to reside in Sweden.

Thinking that I now had the ability to register for personal number, I took out full BUPA health insurance and I filled in a personal number registration based on the only option I had (with own funds). It seems that the threshold is about £10K in the bank, but I failed due to not enough insurance. I asked them why because my BUPA cover was inclusive of up to £3,000,000 but they insisted that it needs to be unlimited and equivalent to national social security cover like NHS. I personally don't understand that reasoning and gave up on that front.

The infinite loop question about personal number registration was asked by me a couple of times on this thread but no-one has given me the correct answer yet. I now have the answer. I managed to phone up Skatteverket (on a Swedish phone) and speak to someone about my situation. They gave me the best advice to date.

Fill in form 4632 (english version) Tax application for foreign entrepreneurs.

I cant make that above line bigger on this post editor, so I'm going to repeat it a suitable number of times.

Fill in form 4632 (english version) Tax application for foreign entrepreneurs.
Fill in form 4632 (english version) Tax application for foreign entrepreneurs.
Fill in form 4632 (english version) Tax application for foreign entrepreneurs.
Fill in form 4632 (english version) Tax application for foreign entrepreneurs.
Fill in form 4632 (english version) Tax application for foreign entrepreneurs.
Fill in form 4632 (english version) Tax application for foreign entrepreneurs.
Fill in form 4632 (english version) Tax application for foreign entrepreneurs.

AT FUCKING LAST!!! It is not very clear but this is exactly what I needed to do on day 1. It registers you as an enskildsfirma and you get a coordination number too. Got an F-Tax certificate which is what is needed to get a personal number and solves the infinite loop problem. I managed to also register for VAT after that. Although I won't be charging VAT since my customers are foreign EU traders with GB VAT numbers. I fill in box 39 on the VAT form, zero in 49. I have filled in estimates for 2012 and 2013 and have a document detailing what I must pay each month. I am disappointed that this comes before it is possible to open a bank account, but hey.

Bank account was the only other hurdle for me. Thinking that my coordination number would be enough, I visited no fewer than 6 banks with all my documents, I was turned down 6 times for various reasons. Swedbank did offer me a limited bank account without internet banking, but that was the whole point I need it so I declined. I had been told by TL and by Skatteverket that a coordination number + passport + proof of money is enough to open a bank account. I don't care what anyone else says on here, but you NEED TO HAVE A SWEDISH ID CARD TO OPEN A "REGULAR" BANK ACCOUNT end of story.

I registered for personal number with employment contract since I had accepted employment in sweden by then. Received my personal number last week and I'm applying for ID card tomorrow. Should arrive in a couple of weeks. 1 thing to note is that I only have a passport from 2005 (2006 is when they introduced the biometrics thing with the rectangular logo on the front). Since I don't have a valid form of Swedish identity I am visiting with sambo and she has to sign a short form. Should get it without a couple of weeks, then will have no problems opening a bank account.

So finally after about a year of living in Sweden I have sorted everything out (i think)
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pifacesi72
post 25.Sep.2013, 10:24 AM
Post #36
Joined: 25.Sep.2013

Hi

I'm new on here...my name is Simon.

I'm planning on moving to Sweden and the question about freelance and running a business is the big question for me too so i'm glad that you (phillios33) have gone through it before i have to...i won't pretend that its any clearer in terms of paying tax etc though.
I'm currently a LTD company here in England, i hope to keep some clients when i move to Sweden, however if they have to pay more to keep me on i can't see them liking that.
I need to find out if there is room for what i do in Sweden...i'm a Motion Graphic designer and videographer mainly creating corporate and marketing videos for companies.
My earnings in England can vary between £40,000 & £60,000 a year depending on the amount of work of course and i can work from home, which is what i do mainly anyway, but i don't know if there is this amount of work or the potential for more work like this in Sweden.
I will be moving with my long term GF who is part swedish (swedish passport) and we would like to raise a family in Sweden but obviously if its not financially viable then it may be the wrong decision.
I am planning to take a Swedish Language course with an exam at the end before we actually go but have given ourselves two years to save money and do what we need to do i order to put things in place.
We have some friends and family who are already living in sweden so it may make things easier.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
@phillios33 glad to hear things are going well with you now.

Si.
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philios33
post 14.Jan.2014, 11:32 PM
Post #37
Location: Gothenburg
Joined: 24.Sep.2012

Hi Si

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I dont check the forums often. I really am not the person when it comes to anything other than exactly my situation because I know that even the smallest amount of difference can mean totally different rules.

If you are living in Sweden already, I would suggest you speak to an accountant here. Skatteverket probably wont be able to give you any helpful information or advice on different methods of operation, they are more interested that you are paying tax. Good accountants are hard to find. I will fish out an email address of this guy I went to. I think I praised him on this thread actually, but this thread is so long now.

If I had to guess for your figures, it's probably worth starting a full fledged swedish company and hire an accountancy company.

Good luck
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