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Why is Sweden reluctant to employ its students

Sweden sponsored qualified students headed back

EthnicDravidian
post 24.Feb.2013, 08:41 PM
Post #1
Location: India
Joined: 23.Feb.2013

Dear Swedes in the Forum,

Let me introduce myself vaguely. I have recently completed my Masters in Science from a University in South of Sweden in September 2012. My Visa was till Jan'13. I returned back to my country now. But so hooked onto TheLocal still lol !!

Well my argument is that YES i came to Sweden as a "Free-Mover" which means i came to study at your university by the TAX payed by your citizens.I studied for FREE, In short my total education was sponsored by the Swedish Govt.,( Though rules have changed now and the fees are ridiculously high) but I am ever grateful to what the Govt. has done for me. I came to know to my shock from the beginning that the chance of getting a professional job by yourself ( with no recommendation, push) is highly impossible if you don't know the language. So I started applying to SFI from maybe August 2011, their reply was i was a 'Student' still so i am not eligible for learning Swedish on a regular basis ( or the evening classes) and i had to wait to complete my studies. They said i could attend a Swedish class once a week (for 3 hrs), which was not enough obviously. I had to wait till Nov'2012 to get admitted in the school to learn Swedish. But unfortunately it was too late.

I guess you all might be knowing what happened to the Romanian student. I applied to literally thousands of jobs, a handful called, few almost got through, but no luck. I was applying in the professional field. Most of the jobs ringed me up and asked if i knew Swedish. Had i attended a few more interviews in the 4 months i had am pretty sure i would have cracked a job there. But the govt. argued i had completely finished my studies and i SHOULD leave the country at any cost. ( I had to drink a half bottle of whiskey that day to douse my disappointment and anger lol )

My question is , I agree you want people to know swedish, there are people like me who WANT to learn the language, who WANT to integrate, who WANT to live a responsible citizen in the country. But why can't you atleast let us ( Students who want a career in this country ) learn SWEDISH daily ?? Doesn't the govt. think their investing in my studies has gone waste ? Or does sweden has enough brains already ?? AM totally confused. It's a mistake i did to quit my job and come to Sweden to pursue my Masters in hope of finding a job related to my profile.

P.S : I have proofs that i was rejected a daily course to learn the language, and I KNOW people who falsely go to SFI, I chose not to FOOL the authorities.

Best,
EthnicDravidian
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polartwist
post 24.Feb.2013, 09:35 PM
Post #2
Joined: 5.Feb.2013

I think the title of this thread is wrong. You should not expect that "Sweden" gives a job to you (=its students). This is true both for a native Swede and for a foreign student.

The only thing you have to do to get a job is roll up your sleeves and try to find opportunities. It's wrong to wait for the opportunities to come and knock your door, it doesn't work it this way.

Don't worry for that missed SFI course, it does not make the difference. Usually getting fluent in Swedish takes a few years.
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Migga
post 24.Feb.2013, 09:41 PM
Post #3
Joined: 26.Jul.2011

QUOTE (EthnicDravidian @ 24.Feb.2013, 08:41 PM) *
My question is , I agree you want people to know swedish, there are people like me who WANT to learn the language, who WANT to integrate, who WANT to live a responsible citize ... (show full quote)

If you want a job you go get it, noone is going to give it to you. If you really want to learn swedish there are numerous ways of doing so without going through SFI. Why put the blame on the swedish government instead of looking in the mirror? There is NOONE, not Swedes or the swedish goverment, who has stopped you from learning swedish but yourself. If I studied in a country for years and planned on working there I would do my darnest to learn the language any way I could legally.
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skogsbo
post 24.Feb.2013, 10:13 PM
Post #4
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

What is your degree in? Does anybody actually need that qualification in the work place?,
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Yorkshireman
post 24.Feb.2013, 10:54 PM
Post #5
Joined: 22.Nov.2011

QUOTE (EthnicDravidian @ 24.Feb.2013, 08:41 PM) *
My question is , I agree you want people to know swedish, there are people like me who WANT to learn the language, who WANT to integrate, who WANT to live a responsible citize ... (show full quote)

Hmmmm, seems like you expected something that was never offered!

Within EU, students that study in another Member State than their own are not classed as resident in that Member State, it is expected that the student leaves the Member State once studies are completed, unless they meet the other conditions for Right of Residence... ie. Nothing was offered, nor expectation given, that you would be able to stay in Sweden once studies have finished.

Non-EU, it is very clear, if the intention is study then settlement within Sweden, then the student permit will be refused, students are expected to leave the country once studies are completed.

The prevailing policy within Sweden, and within the EU is called Circular Migration ... Foreign Students can study in another country, and they are expected to take that knowledge back home to help their countries.

Your expectations were for something that was never offered, and hopefully not implied either.
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Max Reaver
post 25.Feb.2013, 12:17 AM
Post #6
Joined: 26.May.2011

To the OP:

I understand your frustration. Met lots of foreign students during my academy years with similar mindset like you. From the above replies, you probably realized one thing the school never dared to tell: Sweden doesn't want you even if you want to integrate, the ppl above is the proof. I know you came to study for free, but so did a lot of other students. The money you spent to live here compensated more than enough for the tax money invested in you. Hopefully there will be a better visa policy for foreign students in the near future, granting them some extra 6 months to stay and find a suitable job after the degree. I heard there are ongoing discussions about that in many levels of policy-makers.

As for the circular migration argument, I mite have bought it some yrs ago, but no more. It says the government should take measures to reduce brain drain and encourage return migration by e.g. refraining from using preferential treatment. Of course the policy cannot force you to return by blocking you from job searching. With the brain drain towards US combined with the rise of the Asian superpowers, I dont think EU can afford to hold onto the circulation migration much longer. When you had a hard time getting a job, it was the HR's preference over other candidates that made your demise. They were probably the same kind of ppl who posted the replies above, then you understand why.
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oddsock
post 25.Feb.2013, 01:53 AM
Post #7
Joined: 19.Dec.2008

I know many well qualified Indians and Pakistanis in Sweden. What can I say, if I had a company I would love to employ them, they are intelligent, independent and resourceful. But then I'm a foreigner myself and I don't have a preference to employ Swedes. Many Swedes do. I've been working here for four years now but will probably be leaving soon because I have reached the glass ceiling for non-Swedes.

But regarding the language courses... I've never gone to one myself (I hate language courses), but still managed to learn Swedish. I guess I have an interest in languages. But yes, it is stupid that there aren't enough courses for everyone who wants to learn Swedish.
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EthnicDravidian
post 25.Feb.2013, 07:13 AM
Post #8
Location: India
Joined: 23.Feb.2013

@PolarTwist and @Migga

I don't know if my English is that bad or you just being on the defensive yourself being swedes. I never did i mention that i BLAMED the swedish govt. For petes sake am appreciating for letting me study here. So try to bring up a discussion worth discussing, And FYI I did try my level best, travelled cities, gave out my resumes, personally called companies.

And coming to learning swedish is 'numerous' ways, i fail to understand, Quote one ? Swedish is not taught in my country. I could not take up a swedish course as my subject as it was 'not credited' course and i had hell of other technical courses to do. All i wanted was when uneducated, lowly qualified, wrongfully making-use-of immigrants are given free classes and paying them for attending SFI, all am puzzled is why doesn't the govt. want to give those classes to qualified, sensible students ?? ( Now coming to the culture in SFI, i should start another discussion, one word HORRIBLE, i will explain in that discussion ).

@Yorshireman

"Non-EU, it is very clear, if the intention is study then settlement within Sweden, then the student permit will be refused, students are expected to leave the country once studies are completed.

The prevailing policy within Sweden, and within the EU is called Circular Migration ... Foreign Students can study in another country, and they are expected to take that knowledge back home to help their countries."

I never knew this, thanks for the enlightening !!

@Max Reaver :

"you probably realized one thing the school never dared to tell: Sweden doesn't want you even if you want to integrate, the ppl above is the proof. I know you came to study for free, but so did a lot of other students. The money you spent to live here compensated more than enough for the tax money invested in you. Hopefully there will be a better visa policy for foreign students in the near future, granting them some extra 6 months to stay and find a suitable job after the degree."

Ha ha spot on brother ! The visa policy was being discussed since i came to sweden 2010 smile.gif And the status was the same when i left 2013 Jan smile.gif

@oddsock

I appreciate that you understand me as an outisder !! Best regards for your future !!
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wondering
post 25.Feb.2013, 08:15 AM
Post #9
Joined: 3.Oct.2011

The problem is getting your foot into the door. Once you are in .. you are in .. or else you are left always looking in from the outside. Especially works if you work in IT .

Have you also considered that there is a high rate of unemployment amongst the Swedish youth as well ? There is just not enough young people getting jobs.

I mean how many companies do you see opening up for internships or trainee positions ?
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Migga
post 25.Feb.2013, 08:29 AM
Post #10
Joined: 26.Jul.2011

QUOTE (Max Reaver @ 25.Feb.2013, 12:17 AM) *
Sweden doesn't want you even if you want to integrate, the ppl above is the proof.

You make a wild claim about a country and think two posts on an discussionforum is proof to back it up? Laughable.

QUOTE (EthnicDravidian @ 25.Feb.2013, 07:13 AM) *
I never did i mention that i BLAMED the swedish govt.

You make it hard not to think so when you write;

QUOTE
But why can't you atleast let us learn SWEDISH daily ?

QUOTE (EthnicDravidian @ 25.Feb.2013, 07:13 AM) *
And coming to learning swedish is 'numerous' ways, i fail to understand, Quote one?

I know I guy from Uni who comes from India and took private lessons from a fellow student to learned swedish. He is now hired in Sweden, fluent in swedish, lives a good life and drives around in a nice car. I chat with him the few times I run in to him in town. That`s one way of doing it. I wouldn`t recommend what my neighbours did. They were also from India. They studied for free, didn`t bother to learn the language, lived four people in a two room apartment and left as soon as they got their degree.

But let`s hear some constructive criticism, what is Sweden doing wrong and what should Sweden do to be better?
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Hisingen
post 25.Feb.2013, 09:04 AM
Post #11
Location: Västra Götaland
Joined: 5.Jul.2012

I have difficulty in fathoming out why students feel that they are God's gift to an employer. they may have a degree, but until they have acquired some practical experience in the real world they are not all that useful. OK you have to work to gain that experience, and there are plenty of employers who want 'a degree and ten years working experience and 25 years old', but then that is their prerogative.
A newly baked degree is not much use on the labour market on its own.
The only thing to do is go out and sell yourself. (Don't get that wrong ! ! ) No-one is going to come running to you and beg you to work for them since you are a completely unknown quantity. Not only that - bear in mind that more often than not it is not what you know but who you know.
That said - get out there and knock on a few doors - and - Good Luck!
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PDX
post 25.Feb.2013, 09:32 AM
Post #12
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 2.Aug.2011

QUOTE (EthnicDravidian @ 24.Feb.2013, 09:41 PM) *
I have proofs that i was rejected a daily course to learn the language, and I KNOW people who falsely go to SFI, I chose not to FOOL the authorities.


You can only blame yourself. You had two years to learn the language and you did not. That is more than enough time to become fluent, for someone who speaks English.

There are plenty of excellent self-study courses online as well as professional teachers available over Skype.

~~~PDX~~~
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PDX
post 25.Feb.2013, 09:35 AM
Post #13
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 2.Aug.2011

QUOTE (Migga @ 25.Feb.2013, 09:29 AM) *
I know I guy from Uni who comes from India and took private lessons from a fellow student to learned swedish. He is now hired in Sweden, fluent in swedish, lives a good life a ... (show full quote)


Great example - this would indeed be the best way to do it...

~~~PDX~~~
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Max Reaver
post 25.Feb.2013, 10:54 AM
Post #14
Joined: 26.May.2011

QUOTE
You make a wild claim about a country and think two posts on an discussionforum is proof to back it up? Laughable.


Not two posts to back it up, there are plenty more in this forum with similar mentalities, yours just came first. It's "laughable "if you claim your opinion is in no way representative or related to what people in Sweden think, and you can back that up by e.g. declaring you never set foot in Sweden, LOL.

QUOTE
But let`s hear some constructive criticism, what is Sweden doing wrong and what should Sweden do to be better?


Jokes aside. Now that is what I'm talking about! There are ways to improve. Let's focus on how foreign master students learn Swedish.

Universities do offer some Swedish courses of their own. Although the they are mostly given to exchange students who stay only for 6 months or 1 year. After that they must go back. I think the motivation is to give the chance to ppl who are on borrowed time. But unfortunately this leaves many master students outside the classrooms. The exchange students taking Swedish for fun and to meet other exchange students (with whom they converse in English) rather than learning a life skill. To them, Swedish is not as necessary to learn as to master students who have both the aspiration and possibility to integrate. Therefore, if the schools prioritize master students and/or open specific course slots for masters, that will be VERY welcomed!

Since 2011, you have to pay to get master here. Now the the uni becomes a business, they have to deliver the service. Uppsala Uni opened an one-month intensive course in Swedish before semester starts in late August. If the effort is also maintained by allowing the students good opportunity to learn Swedish throughout the two years of their master, that will be appreciated. So basically, take the Swedish courses taught at uni and reshape them to accommodate more master students.

Raise the awareness of alternative ways to learn the language. People tend to rely on SFI if few options are presented. I know there are occasional language exchange associations where people gather to teach each other their native language, but they are not advertised and lack platforms (e.g. website) to make themselves known. One way is to let the kommun and university help by providing such information on their homepage. In Uppsala there is the Cultural Night in early September, if kommun advertise for the language associations by then, the timing will be perfect for the newly arrived masters.

Personally I think SFI is not very well tailored for masters. The level is too basic, progress too slow. Some students there can't even spell their names. With the shortage of language courses at uni, you can probably let them collaborate. So SFI opens a special class with only uni students, and uni accepts the course as course credits that counts towards graduation, win-win for everybody.

There are ways to improve for sure, and not just about teaching the language. Altho due to time matters I'll stop right here for now.
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EthnicDravidian
post 25.Feb.2013, 03:39 PM
Post #15
Location: India
Joined: 23.Feb.2013

@wondering

Yes what you said is correct, jobs are declining, no doubt about that. I was in the wrong place at the wrong time indeed ! I have applied to whatever interships i was eligible for( pretty few, less than 5 after months of search), it's my bad luck i didn't get any.

@Migga @PDX

Yeah, why do you think i can't speak swedish smile.gif ?, my C level test was scheduled for Feb, but my Visa expired. i guess the example you gave is one in a 1000, i asked my neighbours and people around me to help, they did but not regularly, whatever they could. I learnt mostly by watchig the TV, chatting up with my good swedish frinds, all am discussing is about as mentioned, why not allow students to study SWEDISH along side ? This question has never been answered by you, instead you are so tight up defending and pointing fingers at me, This is a iscussion group, not a 'you are right, you are wrong group'. And YES you are the reason as Maxweaver said people don't want to integrate.

Ok, coming to the constructive criticism I totally agree with what @MaxWeaver has said . I'll add one more thing. Call me racist or whatever, but it is the truth.

Cut off the money you give to immigrants who come to learn swedish. In my class of 32, there were 14 nationals, and MOST of them when i asked how many days they were coming, they used to respond 8 months - 2 years. Trust i spoke WAY BETTER swedish than them, I asked a frend of mine, then y r u coming still, the blan answer was , 'THEY PAY ME' and i making the most of it. Because of such idiots people who really want to learn swedish are getting 'CLasses full - you are in the queue' notices. I am a person who waiting for 4 months to get into SFI. FYI I accept nothing from the Swedish govt., am saying it would be better if they change the system. #period
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