(edit title) Petrol stations in towns and cities In Sweden. Options

[byke]

This is clearly going to be a thread of speculation ...
If you live in a town or city in Sweden have you seen a large decrease in local petrol stations being removed from main areas?

In Stockholm, we have seen a huge decrease In regards to petrol stations being allowed to operate inside the city.I know one argument is the environmental impact.

But is this really the reason?I can't imagine a Stockholm resident that has to drive a fair distance to say that of a station outside the city, just to fill up is a valid environmental claim. Especially if they have to drive back. Obviously there is still one or 2 places still left in central Stockholm, but there is a clear attempt to rid the city of petrol stations.

So my real question is, is this a trending change in other towns and cities in Sweden also?And if so, do these towns have a good public transport infrastructure.

What I am trying to figure out is if these changes are being made in part to try and get more people to use public transport? And if these claims of environmental interests are actually being sold as one reason, but in fact could have another underlying reason (attempting to make public transport more profitable for local councils).

[entry]

This is clearly going to be a thread of speculation ...If you live in a town or city in Sweden have you seen a large decrease in local petrol stations being removed from main ... (show full quote)

This is clearly going to be a thread of speculation ...

If you live in a town or city in Sweden have you seen a large decrease in local petrol stations being removed from main areas?

In Stockholm, we have seen a huge decrease In regards to petrol stations being allowed to operate inside the city. ... (hide full quote)

Byke,

Sounds like an interesting topic. Just outside of Gothenburg I have not noticed a difference in the number of petrol stations.

It would be interesting to know if it is simply that the petrol stations are being reduced in your area due to cost/benefit decisions based on increased leasing or insurance costs, changes in traffic patterns - demand - there is that congestion toll up there) or if they are being legislatively zoned out(and if there is a nefarious reason for the zoning/regulation changes).

I wonder if you are also seeing empty municipal car parks(not seeing them here)? -Paul

[Bender B Rodriquez]

If you live in a town or city in Sweden have you seen a large decrease in local petrol stations being removed from main areas?In Stockholm, we have seen a huge decrease In reg ... (show full quote)

If you live in a town or city in Sweden have you seen a large decrease in local petrol stations being removed from main areas?

In Stockholm, we have seen a huge decrease In regards to petrol stations being allowed to operate inside the city.I know one argument is the environmental impact.

But is this really the reason?I can't imagine a Stockholm resident that has to drive a fair distance to say that of a station outside the city, just to fill up is a valid environmental claim. Especially if they have to drive back. Obviously there is still one or 2 places still left in central Stockholm, but there is a clear attempt to rid the city of petrol stations.

So my real question is, is this a trending change in other towns and cities in Sweden also?And if so, do these towns have a good public transport infrastructure.

What I am trying to figure out is if these changes are being made in part to try and get more people to use public transport? And if these claims of environmental interests are actually being sold as one reason, but in fact could have another underlying reason (attempting to make public transport more profitable for local councils). ... (hide full quote)

City planners want to reduce the number of petrol stations in densely populated areas, such as central Stockholm, for safety and environmental reasons. A petrol station, carrying tens or hundreds of thousands of liters of petrol, is a fire hazard, a pollutant of petrol fumes, and requires heavy traffic for daily refilling. Cities are therefore not renewing land leases for centrally located petrol stations anymore. It does not really affect the use of public transportation.

[Bender B Rodriquez]

or if they are being legislatively zoned out(and if there is a nefarious reason for the zoning/regulation changes).

It is due to safety and environmental regulations.

[entry]

City planners want to reduce the number of petrol stations in densely populated areas, such as central Stockholm, for safety and environmental reasons. A petrol station, carry ... (show full quote)

City planners want to reduce the number of petrol stations in densely populated areas, such as central Stockholm, for safety and environmental reasons. A petrol station, carrying tens or hundreds of thousands of liters of petrol, is a fire hazard, a pollutant of petrol fumes, and requires heavy traffic for daily refilling. Cities are therefore not renewing land leases for centrally located petrol stations anymore. It does not really affect the use of public transportation. ... (hide full quote)

I guess people need to remember to fill their tanks before they drive into Stockholm.

There will be "Last Chance for Gas" signs at petrol stations outside of Stockholm soon.

[Bender B Rodriquez]

Central Stockholm is quite small. Not even 5 km to the closest one outside the center.

[gplusa]

The environmental impact issue is largely to do with the underground storage tanks. The replacement of the tanks is extremely expensive with the cost of new,safer tanks, and the disposal of hazardous soils due to leakage from the older type tanks. Country stations don't make a lot of money out of fuel sales so it's often not worth their while, nor that of the fuel supplier, to replace their existing tanks once their current underground storage consent comes up for renewal. It's a global issue which is being more commonplace in less densely populated areas right around the world.

[byke]

hypothetically , if a station is 5km drive there and 5km return ... is a 10km round trip (and maybe 2 x city entrance tolls) to get petrol as form of saving the environment? especially if a city holds more residents in a smaller space than that of an area where residents are less in numbers.

I can understand the reasoning behind the removal of such petrol stations and am myself a non car owner.

But must start to question the legitimacy in how such removals are sold and if it is being done in such a way to deter people from either owning a car in large cities in a hopes that the money that would be usually invested into a car, insurance etc ... is instead used to cattle people by making the accessibility of petrol harder ... and force or should I say gently persuade people to use a paid for public transport system which intern benefits local authorities.

This is why I asked at the start if it was purely a Stockholm phenomena or if it effected towns and cities across Sweden and if it did, were such towns that are making the changes ... did they have a well oiled public transport system to accommodate (and benefit) from the increase of revenue of people needing to look for alternative means of traveling.

In regards to the dangers of such fuel stations.
I am sure its a valid point ... but when places such as those next to the water who offered such are removed, and are less exposed to public concern for safety ... It makes me question the legitimacy for the changes even more.

Again, its not a post to make a unfounded claim ...
More so question the legitimacy to what many people take as "fact" in a situation which may have greater subtext or planning to that, that is often given.

[byke]

On a side note ...
I wonder what the offset in profit is like for local authorities in regards the taxes collected from the sales of petrol to that of the profits (or losses) of state run petrol driven collective vehicles? I know the bus system in Stockholm has been loosing cash for many years, but then again it is subsidized through taxes in the first place.

I know Stockholm has a very large underground system which is rented out to a private company and has to make a profit ... and the greater profit any company makes, the greater rental the city can charge.

Obviously the tube system runs on electricity instead of petrol.
Now who owns vattenfall? and which country has a higher tax on electricity compared to other nations in the region ... ?

[Bender B Rodriquez]

"but when places such as those next to the water who offered such are removed"

?

You seriously need to quit using the word "such"...

[gplusa]

Some people have a well worn track record of starting threads with "innocent questions" when ( 1 ) it's painfully obvious that they clearly already believe that they already know the answer to their question, ( 2 ) they firmly believe that their well reasoned opinion is the only true opinion and will never be told otherwise and, ( 3 ) the intent is purely to draw people into an anti-Sweden debate. Like a broken record. I keep telling myself not to keep falling for this kind of sadness, but it's just so tempting.

[skumdum]

The main reason behind the nation wide gas-station-death is the E85 rule.

[skogsbo]

I would say does it have any impact? Probably not. Many people in cities don't have cars, many of those that do only use them on off days, using local transport to commute to work, which means they probably tank up when leaving to go elsewhere or on return etc.

If these measures mean less cars in cities, lower air pollution, less parking problems and less environmental problems etc.. then I can't think of any reason to have NO petrol stations within say the central 2 or 3 km of ANY large city or town. Technically they are an industrial building and no other hazardous industrial building would ever in a million years get planning permission to build right next to urban dwellings.

If I want a fuel tank here at home, I need to have the right type of double tank, drip tray/area and base etc.. so why shouldn't the bigs boys who make millions out of fuel have to follow the same regulations?

[Bender B Rodriquez]

Some people have a well worn track record of starting threads with "innocent questions" when ( 1 ) it's painfully obvious that they clearly already believe that ... (show full quote)

Some people have a well worn track record of starting threads with "innocent questions" when ( 1 ) it's painfully obvious that they clearly already believe that they already know the answer to their question, ( 2 ) they firmly believe that their well reasoned opinion is the only true opinion and will never be told otherwise and, ( 3 ) the intent is purely to draw people into an anti-Sweden debate. Like a broken record. I keep telling myself not to keep falling for this kind of sadness, but it's just so tempting. ... (hide full quote)

Hear, hear!

[edd1]

I think there's quite a few stations in the city considering it's pretty small,

OKQ8 - Slussen
OKQ8 - Vartavägen
Statoil - Roslagstull
Statoil - Jarlaplan
Preem - Norr Mälarstrand
Shell - lindhagensplan

All of these are right in town and if we were to start naming the ones 5-10km further out I could probably name at least 20 more.

I'd say there are actually plenty of gas stations in Stockholm city?