(edit title) Manners and how they are perceived. Posted by BBC on Facebook ... Options

[byke]

BBC News
A coffee shop in Norwich is refusing to serve any customer who places an order whilst talking on a mobile phone. Do you agree with the owner?

Its been interesting as nearly all the people responding (and it has been very many on FB) have all been in favor of such a ban with many referring to manners. I wonder if the same question was asked in sweden, how it may be perceived?

http://www.facebook.com/bbcnews/posts/10150646786957217

[skogsbo]

it's a fair point, but does depend on the style of cafe and the location. Also how desperate the cafe is for trade. If they sell coffee to takeaway then that would imply it sells coffee to folk who might be passing through or busy. If it's a quaint little grannies tea shop charging £15 for a pot of tea and scone each(bettys style), then you can see how it would be inappropriate.

I bet half those answering on facebook did so via a smartphone, when they should have been doing something else!

[mångk]

I bet half those answering on facebook did so via a smartphone, when they should have been doing something else!

Like giving their order to the Barista!

[byke]

The reason why I found it interesting, is because I have felt that customer service in Sweden is almost the polar oposite (At times - Let me emphasize those specific 2 words for all the flag wavers out there).

Many a time I have been in a line to a checkout, where the clerk has been embroiled in their own personal phone call and unassertive to the job at hand. Often leaving the customer to deal with the result of their poor work ethics and subsequent delays incurred.

But what I did appreciate was the response to the FB article in which people commented on the need for manners. Regardless if this is a resurgence or not, its a quality that needs to be cherished. Rather than shunned under the belief that its old hat or pompous by the self centered and oiks.

[Laura Neil]

too right, refuse to serve them until they get off the mobile and are attentive.

its too often around the world where manners are gone.

here in Malmo its a free for all in queueing for transport- buses or trains, no consideration for those that were there first.

fek em all!!!

[Bender B Rodriquez]

Its been interesting as nearly all the people responding (and it has been very many on FB) have all been in favor of such a ban with many referring to manners. I wonder if the ... (show full quote)

Its been interesting as nearly all the people responding (and it has been very many on FB) have all been in favor of such a ban with many referring to manners. I wonder if the same question was asked in sweden, how it may be perceived?

http://www.facebook.com/bbcnews/posts/10150646786957217 ... (hide full quote)

I have seen similar signs in several shops in Sweden, i.e. "If you want to be served, please don't talk in you mobile phone while ordering".

[byke]

I have seen similar signs in several shops in Sweden, i.e. "If you want to be served, please don't talk in you mobile phone while ordering".

Yeah I have seen a few of these in the past, especially in places like post offices.
However I have always felt they were done for specific reasons (not wasting company time or money) when often I have felt that customers dont get offered the same treatment of respect and courtesy that businesses often demand (unfair terms).

Hopefully if customers learn to speak up more, we may see a better environment for both sides.

too right, refuse to serve them until they get off the mobile and are attentive.its too often around the world where manners are gone.here in Malmo its a free for all in queue ... (show full quote)

too right, refuse to serve them until they get off the mobile and are attentive.

its too often around the world where manners are gone.

here in Malmo its a free for all in queueing for transport- buses or trains, no consideration for those that were there first.

fek em all!!! ... (hide full quote)

I was in Malmo 10 or less days ago and must say I find it always a real shock (as always).
And while I am sure there are a lot of nice people down there, I cant help but only notice the amount of wankers of all colours and creed.

I think it speaks volumes when you can come (like myself)enroute from Germany and find yourself getting off the train in malmo (from copenhagen) with a good amount of bagage and people are pushing onto the train before you have even gotten off with no respect or tact. Women with prams or children are not offered any space or help to leave the train and are left pushing and shoving to get off with what I can say is a dirty and disgusting lack of values and morals by all groups of cultural backgrounds living together in Malmo.

Its a strange evolution of manners (or lack of) that has been justified by Swedes themselves in the past.
I am wondering with escalating tensions between different cultural minorities in such places if we will see the attempt of rebuilding the value of manners again, almost in a way to re-instate vales that will be relabeled as "Swedish" in an attempt to segregate from cultures that share similar values of no manners etc.

Either way - a little goes a long way.
And treat others like you wish to be treated .... even if its an uphill battle.

[AW1]

I think it speaks volumes when you can come (like myself)enroute from Germany and find yourself getting off the train in malmo (from copenhagen) with a good amount of bagage a ... (show full quote)

I think it speaks volumes when you can come (like myself)enroute from Germany and find yourself getting off the train in malmo (from copenhagen) with a good amount of bagage and people are pushing onto the train before you have even gotten off with no respect or tact. Women with prams or children are not offered any space or help to leave the train and are left pushing and shoving to get off with what I can say is a dirty and disgusting lack of values and morals by all groups of cultural backgrounds living together in Malmo. ... (hide full quote)

Nothing unique to Sweden though. You experience this sort of behaviour on a daily basis in London. Or Paris, or New York.

[entry]

I think it speaks volumes when you can come (like myself)enroute from Germany and find yourself getting off the train in malmo (from copenhagen) with a good amount of bagage a ... (show full quote)

I think it speaks volumes when you can come (like myself)enroute from Germany and find yourself getting off the train in malmo (from copenhagen) with a good amount of bagage and people are pushing onto the train before you have even gotten off with no respect or tact. Women with prams or children are not offered any space or help to leave the train and are left pushing and shoving to get off with what I can say is a dirty and disgusting lack of values and morals by all groups of cultural backgrounds living together in Malmo. ... (hide full quote)

I have seen similar behavior in different countries, it is a sad sign of the times. On occasion I have seen the odd child stand and offer a seat to a pensioner or offer to help a mother with child in carriage assistance on or off the bus or tram.

[byke]

Nothing unique to Sweden though. You experience this sort of behaviour on a daily basis in London. Or Paris, or New York.

Oh trust me, Paris is a nightmare ... I was there on the tube a 48 hours prior to Malmo, and it was horrible.
But unfortunately I have never held Paris in very high regards. And feel again while I am sure there are some that still hold old fashioned values in Paris (usually either older people or those from towns originally outside of paris) that its not a place which you should stoop as low as to compare oneself. Almost like comparing human rights to that of North Korea.

London is a mixed kettle of fish ....
And while there is the culture of "init" oiks ... there is still a great deal of resistance in many parts of life where people will stand up and say when something is out of order.

New York, well again thats a culture that is just to far and remote for any reasonable comparison.
And while I have nothing against America myself, there does seem to be a real resistance or whispering under the table regarding swedes and their views on American culture.

Its not about blaming one society or another.
Its about ensuring that when such behavior is flaunted, by whoever ... that it is not ignored or taken for granted.

[mikewhite]

I make a point of standing up to allow the infirm or 'expecting' a seat, especially when there are teenagers also seated !
Sometimes the kids carry on texting, other times they catch my eye and look a bit sheepish ...

[Ambre]

Swedes are the rudest nation I ever came across and I did go to Paris and other areas of France + customer service in Sweden is close to non existant, they are always so rude wether it is face to face or via phone/emails, they have no good manners, not much respect, they know nothing about being customer minded and customer friendly ( cant beat the Brits for that imho), how could they be polite with customers when they have no clue on how to be polite in general...non existant customer service, they make faces when you ask them for something in a shop, they really show you that they are annoyed and that you are disturbing them, they dare to mumble, if I was fluent in Swedish, I would have argued more than once because of their nasty attitude and behaviour towards paying customers ...

[skogsbo]

non existant customer service, they make faces when you ask them for something in a shop, they really show you that they are annoyed and that you are disturbing them, they dar ... (show full quote)

non existant customer service, they make faces when you ask them for something in a shop, they really show you that they are annoyed and that you are disturbing them, they dare to mumble, if I was fluent in Swedish, I would have argued more than once because of their nasty attitude and behaviour towards paying customers ... ... (hide full quote)

Sweden is different though, if you want something you ask for it, folk don't grovel or go over the top with please / thank you, or tack tacke etc.. Buying a coffee is a business transaction, can I have coffee, give me 40krona, thank you... job done. Next please!! I think Swedes just lack urgency at the till, it's not that they don't want to serve you, but where is the rush in life? It's not a bad thing for you, if the pace of life slows a little.

Personally, I would never talk on the phone whilst ordering or even in a cafe if I can help it, even if it's urgent. I would always walk outside(even in winter), but that's me.

[mångk]

Oh trust me, Paris is a nightmare ... I was there on the tube a 48 hours prior to Malmo, and it was horrible.But unfortunately I have never held Paris in very high regards. An ... (show full quote)

Oh trust me, Paris is a nightmare ... I was there on the tube a 48 hours prior to Malmo, and it was horrible.
But unfortunately I have never held Paris in very high regards. And feel again while I am sure there are some that still hold old fashioned values in Paris (usually either older people or those from towns originally outside of paris) that its not a place which you should stoop as low as to compare oneself. Almost like comparing human rights to that of North Korea.

London is a mixed kettle of fish ...
And while there is the culture of "init" oiks ... there is still a great deal of resistance in many parts of life where people will stand up and say when something is out of order.

New York, well again thats a culture that is just to far and remote for any reasonable comparison.
And while I have nothing against America myself, there does seem to be a real resistance or whispering under the table regarding swedes and their views on American culture.

Its not about blaming one society or another.
Its about ensuring that when such behavior is flaunted, by whoever ... that it is not ignored or taken for granted. ... (hide full quote)

Byke, very interesting and balanced discussion!

What one culture perceives as manners another may perceive as rudeness. It seems the consistent factor is that there are those in each that don't live up to standard!

[mångk]

Swedes are the rudest nation I ever came across and I did go to Paris and other areas of France + customer service in Sweden is close to non existant, they are always so rude ... (show full quote)

Swedes are the rudest nation I ever came across and I did go to Paris and other areas of France + customer service in Sweden is close to non existant, they are always so rude wether it is face to face or via phone/emails, they have no good manners, not much respect, they know nothing about being customer minded and customer friendly ( cant beat the Brits for that imho), how could they be polite with customers when they have no clue on how to be polite in general...non existant customer service, they make faces when you ask them for something in a shop, they really show you that they are annoyed and that you are disturbing them, they dare to mumble, if I was fluent in Swedish, I would have argued more than once because of their nasty attitude and behaviour towards paying customers ... ... (hide full quote)

Ambre - Do not take this the wrong way, this is an attempt to help!

To state the obvious first; different countries, different cultures, different rules and different perceptions.

In my experience in Sweden there are a few loose rules to improve your experiences.

The master - servant approach does not work very well! It is a transactional style service as mentioned by another poster.

Despite appearances, a lot of communication is via body language. Whilst generally the body language is more subtle than other cultures it is present. Learning to be a little more aware of it can help a lot. By the time that "they really show you that they are annoyed and that you are disturbing them" it is quite possible that they have through body language acknowledged that you are there, informed you that they are not quite ready to serve you and to kindly wait, you have responded with your body language that this is not good enough and they have just continued the conversation.

If you go into a store expecting a negative experience, you are more likely to have it because your body language is already having that conversation. So do not expect anything more than what you would at a bankomat.

As frustrating as it is (and it can be really frustrating), if you communicate in Swedish and they reply in English do not take it as a negative (they are actually trying to be helpful the vast majority of the time), continue in Swedish if you can. If they continue the conversation/transaction in English, and by that I mean if they are not asking you to repeat yourself, then they are understanding and acknowledging your attempts/communication at Swedish.

If they are familiar with you and you will learn when that is the case, a little friendly smile does not hurt, continue in Swedish and either compliment them on their english and/or let them know that they can speak in Swedish if they would like.

If they are already speaking English with you, and you do not know what a particular word is in Swedish ask them politely 'Vad heter [insert english word here] på Svenska?' If they give the answer then repeat the sentence/question with the provided word in the sentence.

Thats a start. Give it a try and see how it goes!

Obs! And don't forget your manners!

Edited to add:

Not intended to be a thread hijack!