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Anyone closely following the Oscar Pistorius saga?

Talk about selective sensationalist journalism

philios33
post 25.Feb.2013, 09:19 PM
Post #46
Location: Gothenburg
Joined: 24.Sep.2012

The best jokes come out first, then the awful ones follow later!
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Ulvenkai
post 25.Feb.2013, 09:31 PM
Post #47
Location: Skåne
Joined: 22.Aug.2012

QUOTE (Snoopy! @ 25.Feb.2013, 08:08 PM) *
Well me thinks you would be wrong about that, in fact I know your wrong having lived in South Africa & experienced first hand what happens in what you claim is a paradise gated community.

Funny story, I have too. Born, raised and spent 26-years of my life living there.

QUOTE
In a middle-class, gated Johannesburg townhouse, I was a victim of exactly the crime Pistorius says he feared. At 3 a.m. I walked into my living room to find what looked like four men in the semi-darkness. They almost certainly colluded with security guards at the front gate, who believed that I was away on a holiday.

At the sound of my loud hand claps, shouts and perhaps the disconcerting sight of a semi-clothed, middle-aged man, they fled. I took care to give them a clear path out.

I didn't own a gun, and this incident did not make me buy one. It was surprise and confusion, perhaps quick-wittedness or just pure luck that saved me.

And the reality is as I said: South Africans, while aware of the possibility of it happening, do not on an every day basis expect it or actively fear that it will happen.

South Africa is not a nation of paranoid nutjobs who spend their lives looking over their shoulders and firing guns into bathrooms because they think there might be someone in there.

Most South Africans actually live pretty normal lives, many of whom are, as I said, happily isolated from the horrors of the townships by their security complexes or "first world" communities.

QUOTE
Many South Africans have such stories, and their own experiences may shape the way they look at the trial of Oscar Pistorius.

I guarantee you, there is no way that anyone in South Africa will buy into this nonsensical claim that he fired a gun into a bathroom without knowing who was in it and without notifying his girlfriend.

The reality is that no sane South African, especially being aware of what "might" happen, would grab a gun, fire it into a closed bathroom; not knowing if there were any other burglars in his house or where his girlfriend was. His girlfriend would have been his priority (fear of rape being high on the list).

QUOTE
There are plenty of gated "paradise"?? crime committed in South Africa

Nowhere near as much crime as is committed in the townships, nowhere near as badly as the impoverished have it.

This might surprise you, but South Africans do actually walk around at night without clenching guns underneath their coats and many women brave a terrifying night at a restaurant or go to the cinema alone.

Middle-class South Africans and especially celebrities, are most certainly not prone to paranoia and definitely don't fear for their lives every time they go to sleep. That is not the norm, much though the media (international and local) would like to portray it as such.

And yes, farm murders are a problem, but we aren't discussing rural crime here, we're focussing on one celebrity gun nut who almost certainly has an anger problem and had no reason to suspect the paranoid belief that there was anybody else in his home apart from the girl who lived with him, but he supposedly "blindly" fired a gun into the bathroom anyway.

You have to WANT to believe his lies.
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Snoopy!
post 25.Feb.2013, 10:37 PM
Post #48
Location: Skåne
Joined: 14.Aug.2006

QUOTE
I guarantee you, there is no way that anyone in South Africa will buy into this nonsensical claim that he fired a gun into a bathroom without knowing who was in it and without notifying his girlfriend.

Then why are we not hearing or seeing stories to support that local South Africans don't buy into it?
Its been well over a week now, ample time for the voice of reason to be projected.

QUOTE
The reality is that no sane South African, especially being aware of what "might" happen, would grab a gun, fire it into a closed bathroom; not knowing if there were any other burglars in his house or where his girlfriend was. His girlfriend would have been his priority (fear of rape being high on the list).

No the reality is no-one can truly say how they will act if such an incident played out.
I can say this, I can say id do that, but until your in it, with possibly seconds to make a choice, no amount of pre-emptive sanity check is a a "guarantee" your going to make the right choice.

QUOTE
His girlfriend would have been his priority (fear of rape being high on the list).

Another reason why he shouted get out first prior to shooting, without his legs.

Is he guilty? dont know, time will tell.
Is he guilty of panicking ? yes, but then how really should a sane person act?

Without going into full details, we were broken into whilst asleep not that long ago, with my 1 year old son asleep next to me.
Luckily our dog likely spooked the intruder/s scum bags.
What was my reaction at 2.00 in the morning when awoken to what sounded like foot steps.
Immediately out of bed in seconds with crow bar & other armor in hand.
Was I scared a friend asked? no don't think so everything happened so quickly , all I was thinking about was the protection of my family ( not to stop analyze & ring the police )
Should I have been scared? one could argue I should, but "Everyone" will act differently in the heat of the moment.
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Ulvenkai
post 25.Feb.2013, 11:00 PM
Post #49
Location: Skåne
Joined: 22.Aug.2012

QUOTE (Snoopy! @ 25.Feb.2013, 10:37 PM) *
Then why are we not hearing or seeing stories to support that local South Africans don't buy into it? . Its been well over a week now, ample time for the voice of reason to be projected.

Here's a local forum, see what the locals think for yourself: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php...ots-girlfriend/

There have been gatherings outside the courts as well, here's the one at the bail hearing: http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2013/02/1...us-bail-hearing

There is no love lost between South Africans and Pistorius. Nobody is buying into his lies except those who want to lie to themselves.

QUOTE
No the reality is no-one can truly say how they will act if such an incident played out.
I can say this, I can say id do that, but until your in it, with possibly seconds to make a choice, no amount of pre-emptive sanity check is a a "guarantee" your going to make the right choice.

The door to the bathroom is closed. You have enough time to work up the assumption that there is someone inside and then you jump to the conclusion that it's a burglar. You have enough time to get your gun, to randomly fire into it but not enough time to get your girlfriend, hit the panic button and get the hell out?

His story is full of holes.

QUOTE
Another reason why he shouted get out first prior to shooting, without his legs.

This has already been proved inconsistent with the angle at which the bullet holes entered the door. He shouted but received no response and decided to shoot anyway. Really, who doesn't knock on the door first to be sure?

QUOTE
Is he guilty? dont know, time will tell.

I would happily bet a small fortune that he's as guilty as sin.

QUOTE
Is he guilty of panicking ? yes, but then how really should a sane person act?

You make sure that you know where your loved ones are and if you have the luxury of picking up a gun and firing blindly into a bathroom, you have the luxury to go to a neighbour and call the cops if you feel you can't do that in your own home.

QUOTE
Without going into full details, we were broken into whilst asleep not that long ago, with my 1 year old son asleep next to me.
Luckily our dog likely spooked the intruder/s scum bags.
What was my reaction at 2.00 in the morning when awoken to what sounded like foot steps.
Immediately out of bed in seconds with crow bar & other armor in hand.
Was I scared a friend asked? no don't think so everything happened so quickly , all I was thinking about was the protection of my family ( not to stop analyze & ring the police )
Should I have been scared? one could argue I should, but "Everyone" will act differently in the heat of the moment.

It's, of course, a terrible thing to have your home broken into and have your own place of refuge violated. But you had multiple reasons to suspect that someone was in your home who wasn't part of your family. Pistorius has no such defense. He had no dog barking at a stranger, heard no strange footsteps and was in no position to suspect anything out of the ordinary. But he claims that just RANDOMLY, he believed there was a burglar in the bathroom and without ANY evidence, took his gun and fired into it.

What part of that seems reasonable? What part of that seems legitimate or sane?

Think realistically: you live with someone, you get out of bed, they're still in bed. You walk out onto the balcony for a few minutes and then you walk inside. You hear something in the bathroom. Do you 1) assume it's a burglar or 2) assume it's the other half woken up after you got up out of bed.

My first assumption would definitely not be 1 UNLESS proven otherwise (i.e. inspected). That would be the assumption of any sane, rational person who would rather be safe (make sure it's not a loved one) than sorry (OMG, NOISE IN BATHROOM, MUST KILL WHATEVER'S INSIDE IT!).
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gplusa
post 26.Feb.2013, 12:18 PM
Post #50
Location: Luleå
Joined: 4.Sep.2009

Desperate times call for desperate measures. His defence team has to try something. Who knows, maybe he'll get a sympathic jury. I'm curious to know what the noise in the toilet was that convinced him there must be an intruder inside and not his girlfriend having a late night pee. The toilet is tucked around the corner of the ensuite bathroom which is also around the corner from the bedroom. So a fair way for any sound to travel. Now, I can't speak for South African supermodels but, in my experience, unless there's a particularly stubborn piece of corn involved, toiletting is a largely noiseless process. It's not often that the battling with the aftereffects of a curry would fall into the same sound category as a burglar trying to squeeze through a small toilet window.

I find it rather fascinating that one would fire a loaded gun behind the safety of a locked door, discharging 4 (?) bullets at a person whom you presumed also was carrying a gun. Yet, when he decided to open the locked door, what did he bring to the face-to face battle ? Not the gun, that would be way too easy. Nope, in order to make it a fair fight, he went and got a cricket bat.Now, assuming that he believed the intruder to be carrying some kind of deadly weapon (to match Oscar's gun), exactly how did he expect to counteract the bullets that would surely coming flying at him when he opened the door ? A forward defensive thrust, perhaps ?

An accidental shooting doesn't fly, at least not with me. He meant to fire the gun, so it's not an accidental discharge like one might have if cleaning a loaded gun. Which you read about. Nor is it a legal discharge which accidentally becomes illegal, such as a hunter mistaking his hunting partner for a deer. When Oscar pulled the trigger, he intended to shoot a person. No getting around that. And the person he shot was in exactly the position where Oscar thought that there was a person. As the door was closed, he couldn't identify his target, so he also can't claim mistaken identity. For me, the identity of that person is secondary, only serving to show the level of planning.

I'll be interested to see what part, if anything, the Springbok rugby player who was involved in the relationship, has to play. His story may prove to be the telling factor when it comes to premeditation. If he gets off the charges, I can't see his athletics career continuing after that. Way too much speculation, which no sponsor is going to want to have a bar of. There's more chance of Lance Armstrong renewing his Nike contract than of Oscar renewing his.
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Snoopy!
post 26.Feb.2013, 12:54 PM
Post #51
Location: Skåne
Joined: 14.Aug.2006

Well written & unbiased & truthful article.

http://reyburn.co.za/2013/02/19/the-hermen...dst-the-wolves/
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Snoopy!
post 26.Feb.2013, 01:15 PM
Post #52
Location: Skåne
Joined: 14.Aug.2006

Well we all know already what an incompetent & inept detective Botha clueless is, but having just read this further highlights equally questionable evidence.

http://oscarpistorius.com/downloads/Oscar-...of-Argument.pdf
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SimonDMontfort
post 26.Feb.2013, 01:48 PM
Post #53
Location: Stockholm county
Joined: 8.Feb.2011

I listened to the SA magistrate giving the reasons for his decision last week, and he seemed highly critical of aspects of the police performance so far. OP has money to pay for good legal representation to disclose this.

Does make you wonder how often those suspects without this kind of money, get sent down on shoddy evidence? A lot depends on the judiciary.

South Africa abolished jury trials some years ago apparently (in the apartheid era) amid fears that black people would not get a fair trial.

Quite honestly, whether or not some South Africans have any liking for OP or not is immaterial: he is now going to have to explain himself to a (quite possibly) sceptical judge, in June, with no opportunity for his legal team to ‘put on a performance’ in front of a jury (à la Johnny Cochrane in the OJ Simpson trial.)
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Snoopy!
post 26.Feb.2013, 06:57 PM
Post #54
Location: Skåne
Joined: 14.Aug.2006

Looking back nine years ago, along with the flimsy evidence against OP, a precedent may well already been have set
for the course of the trial.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/26/world/af...html?hpt=hp_c4

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/vis...58#.USz0qo6fh4E

one could argue Visagie was more rash in making a decision for shooting not in his house but at his daughters car, which he thought was being stolen ...sadly a decision that he too will live with for the rest of his life.
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