(edit title) To Canadians who moved to Sweden Is Sweden better than Canada, if yes, why? Options

[uduck]

Blame Canada!!

[Mack]

Even Texas?????

Find a Euro country whose economy doing better than Texas.

Tough on crime and tougher sentences for criminals a total failure? Just a coincidence crime rates in the US have been falling fast since those measures were adopted, eh?

@investor61

I wasn't referring to the economy in Texas. Crime rates in most of the western world have fallen, regardless of penal policies. It is a good point however that if the economy was not doing so well, Texas would not have been able to incarcerate as many people.

Crime rates in Canada have fallen. The only reason the current Canadian government is moving forward with their agenda is because it plays to their base of voters. Populism at its crudest. I am a fiscal conservative... this fails the logic test.


CBC Article

Article from The Statesman

[Investor612]

Mack,

Having actually been in law enforcement I can tell you with absolute certainty that there are a lot of people who should never be/ never have been allowed out of jail and the recidivism rate of criminals often defies extensive rehabilitation efforts.

Yes, crime rates are droppiong in most of the western world because of aging demographics. But very few places have dropped to the degree they have in the US in spite of the fact the US population isn't aging as fast as most of the western world.

If you like, we can turn this into dueling links. I can find studies/articles that attribute the initial sharp drop drop in crime rates in some locations to both increased policing and tougher sentencing.

That said, it's not a zero sum game and lumping all types of criminals together into one category is absurd. There are better ways to spend money than to lock up some types of nonviolent criminals.

[skogsbo]

There are better ways to spend money than to lock up some types of nonviolent criminals.

Exactly,
Massive fines and perhaps a years community service for a charity would be more beneficial to society for the likes of financial fraud etc. Rediect some the talents that caused the problems in the first place.
Minor violence offences, 1 years national service, channel that agression and boredom.
Save the cells for those you really need and want to keep locked up, for as long as possible!

[Mack]

Investor,

I have no desire to turn this into a dueling link thread either. I have family in law enforcement as well including my ex who used to run the national statistical centre for justice statistics. She knows the Chief of Police from every major city in Canada. My sister is married to a detective in the US.

I don't disagree that some people should just never be let out. Some people are just born this way but most people get into crime by learning from others. One of the biggest predictors if some one will commit a crime is not so much to do with their socio-economic status but how many criminals they know and end up learning from. There are many communities across Canada and the US that are very poor where the rates of crime are actually low. Putting people in jail for relatively minor offences just helps to complete their training. I suppose you could argue that putting career criminals in jail may help to break this cycle for some communities but not if you keep tossing people that could be saved in prison with them.

This was supposed to be a discussion about Canada. My biggest issue with the current Government in Canada is that it is ideologically driven. If the facts don't support their ideas they do everything they can to discredit anyone with a different view. There is no sensible discussion of public policy anymore. Plus, as a fiscal conservative, I am disappointed that the country is back in deficit... when it could have been avoided.

Things will be different when I am King...
Peace.

[Investor612]

mack,

Actually, we might not be exactly on the same page, but we're at least in the same chapter. We agree on how some types of criminals should be treated

The biggest predictor of whether someone will wind up in jail in the US is the absence of the father in the home. I'd be very surprised if that also wasn't the case in Canada. The Canadian economy is more than 50% natural resources, which has been a big plus, but a big negative has been the appreciation of Canadian currency which has made Canadian products more expensive and depressed the Canadian manufacturing sector. This has depressed tax collections. Plus Canada has the same long term problem of aging demographics the rest of the western world has, more old people getting government assistance and a smaller percentage of the population paying into it.

Harper? What alternatives were there to him do you think were better? I'm also a fiscal conservative. I was very disappointed with the fiscal irresponsibility of the Bush administrations. But the last 3 years have been a lesson on choices. In the US we have gone from very bad to much worse when it comes to fiscal responsibility. Very bad and much worse are too often the choices.

As for the topic of the thread, I didn't introduce US(Texas) into the discussion. I responded to it. The actual topic was which is better, Canada or Sweden and my take is a well adjusted person should have little trouble having a good life in either. My preference would be if forced to choose between the two would be Canada.

[Mack]

Actually, we might not be exactly on the same page, but we're at least in the same chapter.

Indeed, a thoughtful discussion is always more welcome than a flame war.

The most fiscally responsible leader we had was Paul Martin but politics between him and Chretien set the stage for Martin's undoing. Basically Chretien left a bomb (sponsorship scandal in Quebec) waiting for Martin when he took over leadership of the party. More than half of Canada's current deficit is directly attributed to the 2% reduction in VAT that Harper was first elected on. Nearly every economist recommended cutting income taxes but leaving consumption taxes the same.

You are right that the appreciation of the Canadian dollar has hurt the industrial side of Canada. Again this is an issue I have with Harper... he has not show that he has any industrial vision for the country beyond being "drawers of water and hewers of wood". We have and had the potential to be much more than we are. This is not Harper's fault but he has shown no leadership in this area. Compare Canada and Sweden in this regard... think of international Swedish brands... Ikea, SAAB, Volvo, Bofors, Tetra Pak, Husqvarna, Ericsson, H&M, Scania, Absolut. What real international brands does Canada have? RIM, Bombardier and possibly McCains. Embarrassing really.

With three major parties, Harper won a majority with only 37% of the popular vote. Our electoral system is broken. Voters are becoming more and more disengaged.

[Investor612]

I agree a civil exchange is a refreshing break from the flame fests these boards too often turn into.

Canadian brands? Well, Molsons and Labatts are quite highly regarded in some quarters. :>) Seems to me you make some highly regarded whiskey as well.

Winning with 37% of the vote in multiparty elections is a weakness of the parliamentary system and far from confined to Canada.

IMO, Sweden and Canada are apples and oranges as far as any comparisons go. Sweden's population density is much greater. Canada has far more natural resources per capita, including its ag sector.

If I had to bet which country has a better future, economically and otherwise, I'd choose Canada.

[SergioSver]

I quoted jan.petras post but I guess something didn`t work.
Because Sweden is not only the most racist country I've seen, but it's also the most nationalistic.

I am sorry, but he did not say that Sweden was " the most racist " country in the world. He said that in his opinion Sweden was the most racist country he has ever seen. ( what if he has seen only two countries his home country and Sweden?). So unless we can assume that this young 20+ some years old young fella has managed to visit ALL countries in the world we should treat this statement as it was said - the countries that he has seen.

I will not comment on his statements, as I think that they are certainly in the realm of partial observation.

[SergioSver]

However, I would like to address some other issues mentioned in the previous post:

Canada doesn`t need a party like SD since it already has one of the worlds most restrictive immigration policies.

I really do not know what this assertion is based on...

For instance this is the quote from OECD report on immigration policies in Canada:

"Migration target levels were maintained throughout the recession, with even an overshoot of the target to about 281 000 in 2010, fifth highest in the OECD after the United States, the United Kingdom, Italy and Spain, all of these countries having larger populations than Canada’s....Relative to its population, immigration to Canada was also fifth among OECD countries, with a number of smaller countries having relatively higher levels, namely Switzerland, Norway, New Zealand and Australia."

http://www.oecd.org/canada/IMO%202012_coun...0CAN_linked.pdf

Also take into account that any person, from Buenos Aires to Moscow who has at least undergraduate degree and good English language skills can submit his documents to Canadian embassies in respective countries and get immigration visa. Does Sweden has similar program? Canada accepts more immigrants than Sweden in absolute terms, it also accepts more immigrants in relative terms, it also provides the possibilities for independent immigration from various countries around the world.

Why should we call it one of the world's most restrictive policies???

[SergioSver]

What I found was this site amongst others;

http://www.mipex.eu/sweden

According to that organization Sweden rankes number one and ahead of countries like Canada, USA, UK and France in integration policies.

Again, I am sorry but I am not totally convinced.

The report mentioned by you indicates that Sweden has one of the most liberal set of policies ( it may have actually). But this is an input, what it has got out of these policies is its output. Unless I am missing something in this report, it does not say anything about the results of these policies.

We can just as well say that Russia for instance, has better conditions to provide its citizens with higher standard of living than Switzerland, as Russia has more natural resources, diversified climate conditions and agricultural land- it has good input. What Russia gets out of it compared to Switzerland is another matter altogether.

I mentioned youtube as I am quite shocked that so many videos on immigrants in Sweden are devoted to badmouthing of immigrants who came to that country and thus, in my opinion, indicate some inexplicable public apprehension about this whole issue.

However it did not take long to get some official information on the outcomes of immigrants in these two respective "cool countries" as they are frequently called.

This is from the report issued by one of the German institutions:

Placed in an international context, Canada appears to be doing very well regarding the
employment outcomes of immigrants, and Sweden less so. A recent OECD international
comparison of employment and unemployment rates among the native and foreign born in
thirteen OECD countries (Liebig, 2009) found that relative outcomes (the foreign born relative to
the native born) were among the worst in Sweden, and among the best in Canada (table 1).
Focusing on men, only in Canada, the U.K. and the U.S. were aggregate employment rates in
2007/2008 among the foreign born equal to or better than those of the native born, and
unemployment rates similar among the two populations. Sweden displayed some of the poorer
aggregate outcomes, along with Belgium, Denmark, Norway and Switzerland. In Sweden, the
employment rate among the foreign born was 8.6 percentage points below that of the native
born, and the unemployment rate was 2.5 times higher.

http://ftp.iza.org/pp25.pdf

[Migga]

Again, I am sorry but I am not totally convinced. The report mentioned by you indicates that Sweden has one of the most liberal set of policies ( it may have actually). But th ... (show full quote)

Again, I am sorry but I am not totally convinced.

The report mentioned by you indicates that Sweden has one of the most liberal set of policies ( it may have actually). But this is an input, what it has got out of these policies is its output. Unless I am missing something in this report, it does not say anything about the results of these policies.

We can just as well say that Russia for instance, has better conditions to provide its citizens with higher standard of living than Switzerland, as Russia has more natural resources, diversified climate conditions and agricultural land- it has good input. What Russia gets out of it compared to Switzerland is another matter altogether.

I mentioned youtube as I am quite shocked that so many videos on immigrants in Sweden are devoted to badmouthing of immigrants who came to that country and thus, in my opinion, indicate some inexplicable public apprehension about this whole issue.

However it did not take long to get some official information on the outcomes of immigrants in these two respective "cool countries" as they are frequently called.

This is from the report issued by one of the German institutions:

http://ftp.iza.org/pp25.pdf ... (hide full quote)

You shouldn`t be sorry, nor should you be convinced by those figures. My point is that I think that Sweden and Canada both offers a great opportunity for immigrants to live a great life. But I think Canada is better in making immigrants want to become part of society and to integrate.

But Sweden takes in alot of refugees who didn`t want to move and integrate, they were forced to leave. In those cases it doesn`t matter what Sweden offers if the will to integrate isn`t there. Sweden needs to do better in regards to improve immigrants and refugees will to integrate. Anyone has a shot to do so, if they want to.

[ahm]

Guys its logical that integrity of migrated people in SWEDEN will not like CANADA ,AUSTRALIA ,nor NEW ZEALAND,,,,etc

because , SWEDEN will not accept people according to their education or literature,

They accept people because he is THE TWO classes 1a refugee or 2 love refugee (samba) ,

So high cultured people with their certificates like Engineers and Doctors cant be accepted and cant get resident permit for their profession like CANADA or Others.

And people who come with the 2 classes , they mostly come to work anyrhing to get paid and they dont like study

nor education .

They (mostly not all )came from the worst communties in their origin societies .

So how you demand the integrity between Swedish and these major types of migrants

If u want integrity to the be maximized ,

You must accept or apply English in BSc degrees in all universities

And make opprotunity to Private sector to open English Hospitals and English work for Engineers

If u r Engineer u cant find work easily in english nor if u r migrated doctor u cant find private or governmental work with English

So how u want cultred people with integrity to come in here.?!!!

And how you compare SWEDEN with CANADA , if SWEDEN will not get professions and their fast track visas through Embassies,,!!!

[Isvaelin]

This forum is very interesting I just found it while searching online for jobs abroad as a Canadian.

I'm graduating from university this year and still remember the month I spent in Scandinavia. I'm a political science major focusing in political economy with an affinity for learning languages. I'm interested in working in a Scandinavian country as I am very much in love with the scenery and culture.

I was wondering what steps you would suggest to cracking the job market there in Sweden as a foreigner. I have basic comprehension of Russian and French as well as fluency in English. I was thinking perhaps a corporate or government entity there may benefit from employing a Native Canadian, for reasons of trade relations and growing their business in Canada, for instance.

I grew up in Vancouver and want to live and work abroad for several years and would actually prefer being highly mobile. I spent five years in the Canadian military including a tour in Afghanistan, I'm not sure how this would affect Visa's and my ability to work within government institutions.
What are your thoughts?

[Yorkshireman]

I was thinking perhaps a corporate or government entity there may benefit from employing a Native Canadian, for reasons of trade relations and growing their business in Canada, for instance.

Maybe You need to think again! The main organisation for dealing trade relations and growing Swedish business in Canada is Exportrådet (Swedish Trade Council), if You managed to get a job there they would most likely place You in their office in Canada