(edit title) Decision to Move to Sweden How easy did you/other half find it? Options

[swozzie]

Streja, I am a woman. Maybe I need to read it again (tho I won't) but between krigeren and freja who are closely related, I am weary of their boring critiques of all things swedish.

[Beef]

I don't think it was funny! I suffered from this and it was a major contributory factor to the breakdown of my marriage which was the lowest point of my life..
I'm not saying it is necessary a Swedish thing. Could well be generic but what SR posts is from his experience and many others have posted the same thing and it is definitely worth highlighting IMHO.
Moving to a strict culture like the Swedish culture means that as a Swede you have to be very strong and willing to ostracize yourself somewhat to go against the "norms".

Many Swedish immigrants in London and other places don't mention this to their local partners and coming back to Sweden can be a shock for everyone..

[Freja]

Streja, people like swoozie define humor a little bit differently. To her/him it is one sided and biased. It can only be fun if it is directed at others: it is fun to rant and make fun at the expense of Swedes, that is good fun and humor. But trying to make fun/rant about the expats cannot be defined as fun in her/his mind. That is just evil. That is his/her view.

Seems a little bit biased and close minded. Perhaps he/she has gone through the 'love immigrant' metamorphosis?

[Freja]

Streja, I am a woman. Maybe I need to read it again (tho I won't) but between krigeren and freja who are closely related, I am weary of their boring critiques of all things swedish.

You realised that you got all worked up now for an attempt to be funny at your/expats expense. Critque or not. It got YOU worked up.

I find it astonishing that people like you and Beef still go on and blame your partners for "not having told you", don't you realise you have changed moveing here, in your (ex)partners eyes? Did you tell them about that beforehand? Your view of the world comes across as being a highly ego centric and biased one.

[Beef]

sorry love, but until you joined in this was an informative and helpful thread. SR's post was polite and if you'd bother to show some attention you'd see that he is a committed Swedofile and settled here and gives tonnes and tonnes of really helpful advice to many people on the forum regardless of their nationality...

[Beef]

You realised that you got all worked up now for an attempt to be funny at your/expats expense. Critque or not. It got YOU worked up.I find it astonishing that people like you ... (show full quote)

You realised that you got all worked up now for an attempt to be funny at your/expats expense. Critque or not. It got YOU worked up.

I find it astonishing that people like you and Beef still go on and blame your partners for "not having told you", don't you realise you have changed moveing here, in your (ex)partners eyes? Did you tell them about that beforehand? Your view of the world comes across as being a highly ego centric and biased one. ... (hide full quote)

I'm not blaming anyone! It happened and it happens. Like I said, probably the world over. Not insulting your wonderful Sweden.. It was unpleasant. I'm trying to help people out in the future by pointing it out. See the key word here "Help"!

[Freja]

I'm sorry if I misunderstand/misread you but isn't this a little bit inconsistent, if not contradictory?

I'm not blaming anyone!

Many Swedish immigrants in London and other places don't mention this to their local partners and coming back to Sweden can be a shock for everyone..

My point, sure anyone moving back to their home country is different from what they were abroad. What's the news? But to the extent that people change personality, wow, that is extreme! More importantly, anyone moving to a new and different country changes ones there. Ask anyone who has brought their 'love immigrant' back home. Where ever that home is. The UK for example. I know plenty of Americans who moved to the UK with their Brit, whom they met in the US. And all things changed, with painful breakups as result.

Dynamics between two people changes when you move. It's as easy as that. And some relationships are perhaps not strong enough to withstand it. All this bullshit about Swedes changing personality when they move back and the naive and innocent 'love immigrant' becomes the victim of this is a false narrative. I understand you felt like it played out like that. But ask your ex if she thinks you changed when you moved here, and if perhaps that was contributing to you break up. I suspect her version is differnt from yours.

It is a naïve, one sided, biased and therefore not helpful, potentially harmful, advice to tell people thinking about moving here that their Swede will change/deteriorate without recognising that the 'love immigrant' will also change.

The meaningful advice, instead is, make sure you know what you are doing. Your dynamics will change going from one of your home turfs to the other's. Think through what that will mean for your relationships and individually and if your relationship is strong enough to withstand those challenges. If it is, it will be a highly rewarding experience for your both. If not, think again if you need to change your plans.

[byke]

Fly the flag ... the tag team are back.

[plopp]

Beef

I think you've got a point and it's something I'm certainly experiencing myself to a cetain degree (although nothing serious by any means). My wife is fairly open minded and has lived abroad alot so luckily for me she agrees alot of the time when I out point out how she has changed since we moved here. Some of the time she agrees and sometimes will change her habits when she realises it, but the problem is that her friends and family then think she is being strange.

An example.. she recently invited someone round for a fika and was stressed about what cakes to buy , where the guests were going to sit blah blah blah. We had an argument as I thought it was ridiculous especially considering it was one of here best friends that she's known for years. The girl I married (when we lived in England) was so much more laid back and would never have been stressed at something like this. Eventually she agreed and stopped stressing and decided make do with a bit of nescafe and a few biscuits..

...but guess what... her friend was offended! Not massively so, but thought that my wife hadn't put much effort into it.

I have a great wife though and we can laugh most of this stuff or just agree to disagree but I can imagine this can and often does lead to coupled breaking up etc


So i agree it can be difficult.

[Beef]

I'm sorry if I misunderstand/misread you but isn't this a little bit inconsistent, if not contradictory?My point, sure anyone moving back to their home country is diff ... (show full quote)

I'm sorry if I misunderstand/misread you but isn't this a little bit inconsistent, if not contradictory?

My point, sure anyone moving back to their home country is different from what they were abroad. What's the news? But to the extent that people change personality, wow, that is extreme! More importantly, anyone moving to a new and different country changes ones there. Ask anyone who has brought their 'love immigrant' back home. Where ever that home is. The UK for example. I know plenty of Americans who moved to the UK with their Brit, whom they met in the US. And all things changed, with painful breakups as result.

Dynamics between two people changes when you move. It's as easy as that. And some relationships are perhaps not strong enough to withstand it. All this bullshit about Swedes changing personality when they move back and the naive and innocent 'love immigrant' becomes the victim of this is a false narrative. I understand you felt like it played out like that. But ask your ex if she thinks you changed when you moved here, and if perhaps that was contributing to you break up. I suspect her version is differnt from yours.

It is a naïve, one sided, biased and therefore not helpful, potentially harmful, advice to tell people thinking about moving here that their Swede will change/deteriorate without recognising that the 'love immigrant' will also change.

The meaningful advice, instead is, make sure you know what you are doing. Your dynamics will change going from one of your home turfs to the other's. Think through what that will mean for your relationships and individually and if your relationship is strong enough to withstand those challenges. If it is, it will be a highly rewarding experience for your both. If not, think again if you need to change your plans. ... (hide full quote)

Fly the flag ... the tag team are back.

Fair point. You're first post on what was a helpful thread dragged up some very painful memories for me.. Of course I changed too,. We didn't break up over night. Went through loads of heartache and counselling.

Wont say any more and will try and be more generic in my advice, but I believe, witnessed first hand and have seen posted here many many many times, that when moving home from a more socially liberal culture to a stricter one it is hard not to change quite considerably and literally right in front of your partner's eyes..

[Freja]

BeefI think you've got a point and it's something I'm certainly experiencing myself to a cetain degree (although nothing serious by any means). My wife is fairly o ... (show full quote)

Beef

I think you've got a point and it's something I'm certainly experiencing myself to a cetain degree (although nothing serious by any means). My wife is fairly open minded and has lived abroad alot so luckily for me she agrees alot of the time when I out point out how she has changed since we moved here. Some of the time she agrees and sometimes will change her habits when she realises it, but the problem is that her friends and family then think she is being strange.

An example.. she recently invited someone round for a fika and was stressed about what cakes to buy , where the guests were going to sit blah blah blah. We had an argument as I thought it was ridiculous especially considering it was one of here best friends that she's known for years. The girl I married (when we lived in England) was so much more laid back and would never have been stressed at something like this. Eventually she agreed and stopped stressing and decided make do with a bit of nescafe and a few biscuits..

...but guess what... her friend was offended! Not massively so, but thought that my wife hadn't put much effort into it.

I have a great wife though and we can laugh most of this stuff or just agree to disagree but I can imagine this can and often does lead to coupled breaking up etc


So i agree it can be difficult. ... (hide full quote)

you seem refreshingly sane and reasonable plopp. would you say that you changed at all moving here? is that something you discuss with your wife also, and laugh about?

i'm just curious. that is at least my and my american hubbys experience. we both have highly international backgrounds and met on 'neutral' territory. now back in sweden he points out my changes and i point out his, and we argue and/or laugh about it and progress to a better space.

in my experience the dynamics in a cross-cultural relationship definitly changes as you move to new places and/or back home. and it takes a lot of adjustment and communication by both to make that new dynamic work.

but making it as simplistically as some do here, is a naive advice in my view. not helpful, and possibly harmful. but it is obviously one sides as their partners haven't commented on how they changed moving here. perhaps that is obivous for all, even if if it don't seem like.

[swozzie]

Fly the flag ... the tag team are back.

I don't think so. Everyone knows by now that freja is a toxic nutter and contaminates everypost it comments on.

[Beef]

BeefI think you've got a point and it's something I'm certainly experiencing myself to a cetain degree (although nothing serious by any means). My wife is fairly o ... (show full quote)

Beef

I think you've got a point and it's something I'm certainly experiencing myself to a cetain degree (although nothing serious by any means). My wife is fairly open minded and has lived abroad alot so luckily for me she agrees alot of the time when I out point out how she has changed since we moved here. Some of the time she agrees and sometimes will change her habits when she realises it, but the problem is that her friends and family then think she is being strange.

An example.. she recently invited someone round for a fika and was stressed about what cakes to buy , where the guests were going to sit blah blah blah. We had an argument as I thought it was ridiculous especially considering it was one of here best friends that she's known for years. The girl I married (when we lived in England) was so much more laid back and would never have been stressed at something like this. Eventually she agreed and stopped stressing and decided make do with a bit of nescafe and a few biscuits..

...but guess what... her friend was offended! Not massively so, but thought that my wife hadn't put much effort into it.

I have a great wife though and we can laugh most of this stuff or just agree to disagree but I can imagine this can and often does lead to coupled breaking up etc


So i agree it can be difficult. ... (hide full quote)

Just keep communicating mate.. She probably thought it was mad when you didn't make an effort when your friends came round in England.. I remember once I mentioned to my ex when she first moved to London that some mates were coming round later to watch football. She freaked! "We have nothing for them"! I said, "of course they don't want anything. They're coming to see us. I'll just send one of them out to get pizza or we'll get it delivered.. I dunno yet..". etc... etc..

To be fair, she adjusted very quickly, probably like your wife.. I think it's harder for us going the other way. The culture here can come across as very strict and restrictive..Like I said, keep talking and try and laugh about everything..

[plopp]

Well to answer the question of whether or not I have changed...

.. about a week ago I was on the bus and there were some people talking.. loudly! My wife laughed at me because I shook my head as if to say 'how dare these people talk loudly on a bus'!

So yes, for the worse, I have changed. But not sure if this example is me becoming more swedish or just getting old!

[Freja]

I don't think so. Everyone knows by now that freja is a toxic nutter and contaminates everypost it comments on.

Swozzie, you are both disrespectful and dishonest in your comment.

You failed to see the humour in my initial post is not a good reason to attack me, or tell me I'm humourless. You just felt it hit you and can only appreciate humour if it is directed towards other people. Especially ones you have an issue with.

My posts above has furthered and refined the advice to the OP. The initially offered narrative that "expect your Swede to change personality dramatically, and it will potentially/probalby lead to a painful break up" now instead reads: "When a cross-cultural couple move dynamics changes. Even more so if you move from one of your home turfs to the other's. You both will change, one for being back home, the other for being in a new/different environment. Make sure you think through what these changes will mean to your dynamics and if the relationship is strong enough to deal with the related challenge.".

Several posters have now testified to this, it wasn't just their Swede that chagned, but themselves/the 'love immigrant' also. The change happens in both persons, regardless where home is, and this require communication and work to deal with. And above all a relationship that is fundamentally strong.

So a biased, one sided and potentially harmful advise that could have led the OP the wrong way has been developed to a more realistic and balanced one. You call this "toxic" and "contamination" of the thread. I call it objective and constructive.

But, obviously, many people are not on here to give objective advice but to rant, as a therapeutic exercise for their own frustrations. Sadly, without any regard of how that will impact or harm, for example, the OP of this thread. Disrespectful and inconsiderate if you ask me.