(edit title) Salary Vs Cost of living How does anyone make enough? Options

[Bender B Rodriquez]

Don't forget the jobskatteavdrag (tax deductions on work income). On a monthly income of 30k, the effective tax rate is less than 25% now.

But don't forget that on a monthly income of 30k your salary is actually 40k, so the effective tax rate is then 44%

[Willy]

But don't forget that on a monthly income of 30k your salary is actually 40k, so the effective tax rate is then 44%

For sure, I'm too well aware of the arbetsgivaravgift (payroll tax paid by employer)...

But it's two different things. When you discuss total tax pressure, it definitely should be included, but when people want to estimate their take-home income (like here), it's the visible tax rate that is relevant.

[Opalnera]

Free lunch in schools but user pays for an essential service like rubbish collection.

[DamnImmigrant]

@wanderer9 - "I'd like to pick up on this topic again as I am interested, yet still confused...As quoted, it is apparant that Swedes maintain a good standard of living...something doesn't add up...family wealth that is inherited and passed down..."

It is not just a "GOOD" standard of living - it is a "HIGH" standard of living ;-)

Search for similar topics like this one - Spending Habits and Disposable Income:
http://www.thelocal.se/discuss/index.php?showtopic=35961

I have not seen that much wealth is passed down from families. Not denying it happens, just NOT in the amount that an impoverished people (like the Swedes are supposed to be) can suddenly be seen as well off! We bought 2 houses on our own and we bought 1 house at a reduced price from relatives (inherited but still had to pay for it). Most people I know bought houses and properties that were not in the family. I know 1 person who got property from mom and had to spend big to build a house on it.

Now about taxes...

@California Girl 3 - "families have two incomes...two "medium" earners in the family who are not particularly highly taxed...second household income does not come at a heavy cost for childcare...in the U.K. and Germany..childcare can practically wipe out the second income...the complaints about high taxes...taxes top out at about 32%...similar salaries in the U.S. pay about the same percent or even somewhat more, once state, federal, local, Social Security etc. has been factored in. Then they have to pay a hefty co-pay..."

The idea that we have high taxes is just plain WRONG! You CANNOT just look at the tax rate and compare countries! You NEED to look at WHAT you are getting for your taxes!!!!!!!!

Like "California Girl" said, the daycare cost here does not rob families of their second income! I was soooooo amazed at the QUALITY of daycare that the people have here! There IS a sliding fee based on income that you have to pay for childcare but it is more like a CO-PAY! Daycare costs in the US were extreme!!!! ONLY the RICH people in America could afford the QUALITY of the daycare our FAMILIES get standard here!

"California Girl" was also right about the tax rate being similar in the US! Where I lived I was paying slightly less than I am paying here - but I got NOTHING for my taxes in the US! (Mileage may vary based on where you live in the US.)

Like I said, the US "Nickels and Dimes" you to death (20 nickels = 10 dimes = $1)! After the taxes are paid in Sweden - MOST of a families major expenses are covered. AFTER paying taxes in the US, you then have to pay for many necessities. In fact in the US many people choose to LIVE ON HOPE and not pay for necessities like health-care HOPING they will not get sick. Much of the other insurance here is cheaper too because the universal health care makes us healthier and insurance companies do not need to add on hefty premiums for medical payments to cover accidents, like someone hurting themselves on your property!

Taxes are ONLY high if you get NOTHING for your money.

If taxes are the first reason that the "Salary Vs Cost of living" seem out of whack the second reason would be that AGAIN in the US, you are "Nickeled and Dimed" into poverty! --- In Sweden, you are NOT!

Like I said before, in Sweden the consumer bills are WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get)! I pay ONE PRICE for Internet which is CHEAP and very high speed! Same for telephone and TV connection! In the US, my bill kept changing depending on what EXTRA CHARGES they could pile on!

Banks in Sweden are diametrically opposed to the banks in the US! The banks here are again WYSIWYG! Screwing the customer would seem to be a novel idea here. My debit card was denied once here. GREAT! because it was a small purchase that would have cost me a lot of money in the US - in the US the transaction would have been APPROVED and I would have paid LOTS of money in penalties for the PRIVILEGE of having my transaction approved! All the crazy ass fees that banks charge in the US do not even exist here.

NO CREDIT SCORING HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!

You Americans know about THE CREDIT SCORE, THAT THING that NOT ONLY determines how much MORE INTEREST you have to pay for loans and on credit cards (compared to what others pay) - but also THAT THING that also causes you to pay MORE for insurance premiums (god knows what else is affected by the credit score) -- AND it can even be used to deny you a JOB!

You would not believe how CHEAP it is to buy property here when you compare the administrative costs of Sweden compared to the outrageous costs charged in the US!

The third aspect to the "Salary Vs Cost of living" not being out of whack is the fact that Sweden is not a consumer insanity culture like what is found in the US.

The Swedish culture does not encourage credit buying!

When you see a long line (queue) forming in Sweden, it is people waiting for the cash machine so they can withdraw cash to make purchases!

"Keeping up with the Joneses" is exactly OPPOSITE of Swedish culture.

Swedes do not feel driven to buy a lot of useless stuff! I once read something that talked about how Swedes spent their disposable income, and the priorities here were very different from the rest of Europe. Bummer I cannot find it but it said the highest priority amongst Swedes was "home improvement" and not cars, food, clothes nor ...

[gplusa]

Well said, that person.

[Opalnera]

Yes because everywhere that is not Sweden is America.

[socall]

Hi.

I'm interested in this topic too having just moved here and having lived here before for six months. The take home pay is relatively low despite the benefits derived from paying tax. However there is still a lot to purchase with ones take home pay and the cost of living makes these costs very high. How do people survive? I appreciate the point that a second income is not fully consumed in childcare but what if only one of you is working? How much is a good salary when there is only one income to support a family?

What I cannot understand is how people appear to be materially rich despite the stated average salaries. Is there a large professional class that has a significantly higher take home pay than everyone else? I'm sure that people here do not have the same level of debt as has been referred to but is pay is low, debt is low how do so many people afford nice cars, good clothes, holidays and all the rest?

[Opalnera]

Hi.I'm interested in this topic too having just moved here and having lived here before for six months. The take home pay is relatively low despite the benefits derived fr ... (show full quote)

Hi.

I'm interested in this topic too having just moved here and having lived here before for six months. The take home pay is relatively low despite the benefits derived from paying tax. However there is still a lot to purchase with ones take home pay and the cost of living makes these costs very high. How do people survive? I appreciate the point that a second income is not fully consumed in childcare but what if only one of you is working? How much is a good salary when there is only one income to support a family?

What I cannot understand is how people appear to be materially rich despite the stated average salaries. Is there a large professional class that has a significantly higher take home pay than everyone else? I'm sure that people here do not have the same level of debt as has been referred to but is pay is low, debt is low how do so many people afford nice cars, good clothes, holidays and all the rest? ... (hide full quote)

They don't. They usually take vacations in family owned summer houses and I mean take a look around, people aren't carrying designer bags or driving expensive cars. Our plan is to have kids and take em home to Aus when they are 5 and can enter "forskola".

[Thorfinna]

Advice: stay in France!!!!!! France is much much better than here on soooo many levels...

[kracker]

Haven't blessed this site with my presence for years but here goes:

DamnedImmigrant should be called DamnedLiar and I suspect he may be a Swede.

Swedish salaries for educated folks are low in comparison to all other Western nations and in some half way developed PIGS nations salaries for civil servants, teachers, police, etc...are higher even with the cuts. In addition most all Swedes have to work to the retirement age of 65 while in other nations such as some American states a teacher, for example, only retires after 30 years of work and that retirement is usually around the age of 55. Military in the USA retire after 20 years. So, when you add in factors like that you see that in other Western nations salaries are even higher than they look on paper.

Swedish garbage collectors can brag that they have a higher standard of living than other Westerns but that is about it.

Now lets take a look at taxes. 32% income tax (depending on Kommun) and 25% sales tax. If you spend all your monthly salary like most Swedes under the age of 250 do, then you are in effect paying 57% tax. But wait there is more to this story. When you add in the insane environmental taxes on petrol and energy and booze and anything else they can come up with then you are getting up to over 70% of your income in tax. But there is more. Have you ever got a fine in Sweden for say not wearing a seat belt or a drink driving offense or a parking ticket? If you have then you know that these fines are higher than Keith Richards. In the Southern states the fine for a DUI is 2000KR. What is it in Sweden? It can be up to 12000kronor. But wait there is more. Has a Swedish regulatory agency ever blessed you with the news that they are coming to inspect something at your house or business? If so then you know they charge about 900kr an hour to bless you with their fascist services.

Those of you who say that Swedes dont borrow money or use credit cards either dont live here or dont know anyone here. Swedes put vacations on layaway, most have car payments, they even put tvs and appliances on layaway. The only people who do this in the states are ghetto folk on welfare.

You must as a visitor here understand one thing about the Swedish culture. And that is putting on appearances. It is important to look like you are upper middle class. It is important to drive a svensson car, have a well keep lawn, a well kept fence and house (why do they love fences so much?). The immigrants are always being trashed by the swedes for not doing these things (except for the car, even Romanian apple pickers have to have a merc or beamer).

So take that to the bank...

[kracker]

One more thing, Swedes are just as materialistic and maybe even more so than anyone else. They just have different status cues. They may not wear gucci but they will have something else, like an iphone. It is just that Swedes simply don't have enough money for conspicuous consumption. They cannot go out 5 nights a week, they cannot buy diamonds and such.

[cogito]

Advice: stay in France!!!!!! France is much much better than here on soooo many levels...

Agree! But just sticking with cost of living, when we lived in Paris, same as when we lived in New York, we had less income, yet still could afford to go out for dinner a couple of times a week. Here, never.
And then, yes, life was better...

[cogito]

Swedes do not feel driven to buy a lot of useless stuff!...the highest priority amongst Swedes was "home improvement" and not cars, food, clothes nor ...

Who defines "useless?" Who decided that Home Improvements is a nobler priority than, say, eating out in restaurants or spending a week in in Paris with your wife?
It is the state who decided by giving a tax break for home improvements. What about poor renters who do not have a home to improve? Shouldn't they get a break on their hobby?

"Never see consumer insanity?" Have you never seen Swedes on their frenzied shopping sprees in the U.S? The only reason you don't see it in Sweden is because the prices are too high.

"Keeping up with the Jones" (Svenssons) is rampant in Stockholm. It just goes by a different name. It is called "royal swedish envy" (kungliga svenska avsjukan)

I could go on, but It really comes down to whether you accept the state Big Brother treating us like children who need to be told which spending is "useless" and which is not. Some prefer to be respected as responsible adults capable of deciding themselves how to spend their money.

[Opalnera]

Haven't blessed this site with my presence for years but here goes:DamnedImmigrant should be called DamnedLiar and I suspect he may be a Swede.Swedish salaries for educate ... (show full quote)

Haven't blessed this site with my presence for years but here goes:

DamnedImmigrant should be called DamnedLiar and I suspect he may be a Swede.

Swedish salaries for educated folks are low in comparison to all other Western nations and in some half way developed PIGS nations salaries for civil servants, teachers, police, etc...are higher even with the cuts. In addition most all Swedes have to work to the retirement age of 65 while in other nations such as some American states a teacher, for example, only retires after 30 years of work and that retirement is usually around the age of 55. Military in the USA retire after 20 years. So, when you add in factors like that you see that in other Western nations salaries are even higher than they look on paper.

Swedish garbage collectors can brag that they have a higher standard of living than other Westerns but that is about it.

Now lets take a look at taxes. 32% income tax (depending on Kommun) and 25% sales tax. If you spend all your monthly salary like most Swedes under the age of 250 do, then you are in effect paying 57% tax. But wait there is more to this story. When you add in the insane environmental taxes on petrol and energy and booze and anything else they can come up with then you are getting up to over 70% of your income in tax. But there is more. Have you ever got a fine in Sweden for say not wearing a seat belt or a drink driving offense or a parking ticket? If you have then you know that these fines are higher than Keith Richards. In the Southern states the fine for a DUI is 2000KR. What is it in Sweden? It can be up to 12000kronor. But wait there is more. Has a Swedish regulatory agency ever blessed you with the news that they are coming to inspect something at your house or business? If so then you know they charge about 900kr an hour to bless you with their fascist services.

Those of you who say that Swedes dont borrow money or use credit cards either dont live here or dont know anyone here. Swedes put vacations on layaway, most have car payments, they even put tvs and appliances on layaway. The only people who do this in the states are ghetto folk on welfare.

You must as a visitor here understand one thing about the Swedish culture. And that is putting on appearances. It is important to look like you are upper middle class. It is important to drive a svensson car, have a well keep lawn, a well kept fence and house (why do they love fences so much?). The immigrants are always being trashed by the swedes for not doing these things (except for the car, even Romanian apple pickers have to have a merc or beamer).

So take that to the bank... ... (hide full quote)

I could not agree more

[gplusa]

Clearly the dream hasn't worked out for a couple of posters. A few anger and resentment issues there which are pretty obvious. Including (the classic rant of the night) a complaint that the penalty in Sweden is harsh for DUI. That's a mindset unto itself. Fortunately there are a few of us who have (apparently defying the odds) managed to build a good life for themselves and our families in Sweden. Without disappearing under a mountain of debt. Obviously that means we're all in denial, and it's only the people spouting the end of the world who know the truth. There's sob stories in every country on the planet from people who discovered that the reality didn't match the fantasy.