(edit title) Former Irish PM Bertie Ahern Resigns From Party Fantasy fun with fraudulent Ford Options

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

As I have written on many occasions, the only proof of serious crimes of either a criminal or civl nature is a court decision - what I cannot make, and neither can any of my critics.

I seriously think, and have evidence to support it - for example, the long post I made yesterday which no one has contradicted in any way, as far as I can see - that the dealings, led by former PM Bertie Ahern, in achieving peace in Northern Ireland are a most complicated matter, involving many killings and much bribing.

If you want to see more about them, and my evidence for it, see the article about the killing of 29 British officials involved in seeking a settlement in Northern Ireland's Troubles in the Chinook helicopter crash at the Mull of Kintyre in June 1994.

And will have one about the Mahon Tribunal and the murder of GMP Chief Constable Mike Todd when I get around to it.

And I just wish it was all fiction, but it isn't.

[Jamtjim]

And that's the difference between you and a serious, conscientious investigator Trow. Real investigators search for evidence and then follow it to discover the true story behind it. You on the other hand have already made up your mind what the story is and then try to shoehorn known events into it to try to make it superficially appear to be the truth.

Take your silly allegations regarding the Toulouse shootings. You have declared it a conspiracy even before the dust has settles and while the bodies are still warm. Let's be clear here; there is absolutely no way you could possibly have enough evidence which you have thoroughly researched and confirmed in order to claim anything with any degree of certainty. But have you let that stop you? Of course not! You transgress the bounds of good taste and decency and try to fit these terrible events into your unbalanced, deluded and not to mention, self-seeking view of the world.

You see for you EVERYTHING that happens is a conspiracy. Whether it is or not is less important to you than making your outlandish and ultimately dishonest claims.

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

Total nonsense, as usual by you, Jamtjim.

I certainly don't see all things as conspiracies. The vast majority are not, and, consequently, I don't write about them.

For example, when I was an associate editor of Eye Spy magazine, I started writing articles about the Chinook helicoper crash which was then blamed on pilot error. I looked into mechanical failure, and to IRA sabotage being responsible, but discarded them because I found no evidence of a real problem with this machine, and didn't see any reason why the IRA would want to kill the 25 British police and intelligence agents who were most sympathetic to thie cause.

Then when a Judge finally quashed the corrupt ruling by RAF marshals about the pilot error, and Fin Cunningham wrote an article about the officials killed being the hardliners, I came to write my article to refute his false claims - what he admitted to me that he had gotten wrong.

And in the Toulouse conspiracy and cock-up, I only came to my hypothesis after French counterterrrorsts tried to kill him in an ambush, and then with a grenade and bullet assault when he could have been captured alive, as critical counterterrorists have said, with the use of tear gas.

You, in short, attack everything I claim, just dismissing mysterious deaths, murders, assassinations, etc., ad nauseam, as if they never happened, making yourself look like some paid, mindless disinformer.

[Jamtjim]

I certainly don't see all things as conspiracies. The vast majority are not, and, consequently, I don't write about them.

Every time something happens, a terrorist attack, an earthquake etc. guess who pops up with a nutbag conspiracy theory? Why THF of course. The sheer quantity of your deluded ramblings is enough to cast severe doubt over the legitimacy of your allegations

For example, when I was an associate editor of Eye Spy magazine,

So if I were let's say to contact this publication, they would verify this?

And in the Toulouse conspiracy and cock-up, I only came to my hypothesis after French counterterrrorsts tried to kill him in an ambush, and then with a grenade and bullet assault when he could have been captured alive, as critical counterterrorists have said, with the use of tear gas.

That may be true, but it does nothing to substantiate the grand conspiracy bullshit you misguidedly try to infer from it.

You, in short, attack everything I claim, just dismissing mysterious deaths, murders, assassinations, etc., ad nauseam, as if they never happened, making yourself look like some paid, mindless disinformer.

I only attack the nonsense you unceasingly spout and occasionally the honesty and delusion of the author. Maybe I'm part of the conspiracy as well Trow... you have certainly implied that before... As for my mind, well as flawed as it may be, I at least have a nominal grasp of reality something which appears totally absent from yours.

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

I attack events that happen which are increasingly suspicious, as governments have become aggressive, covert, conspiratorial, and preemptive in nature.

Sure you can consult Eye Spy magazine about my being an associate editor and writer until Mark Ian Birdsall refused to pay me for what it published of mine - what I looked into taking him to court over, but decided against it becuase it would cost more than I could expect to get in an award. Of course, you could look at issues when I worked for it, especially Issue Eight which has my long article about the 9/11 cockup, and one about the use of Manchurian Candidates in the assassinations of JFK, MLK, RFK, and Governor Wallace - what he required sources from me for fear that he might be sued, but nothing ever came of them.

Any open-minded person would take my word for being so employed, but for you, who attacks everything I say, it has to be proved, so write him.

Have to go, but my fuller explanation of the Toulouse conspiracy and cockup will appear soon.

[Jamtjim]

Any open-minded person would take my word for being so employed, but for you, who attacks everything I say, it has to be proved, so write him.

Hmm that I doubt. To my knowledge you have been caught out in a deceptions and false accusations on at least two occasions writing on this forum alone so why would anyone with "an open mind" trust the authority of someone with your track record.

I at least have learnt not to accept ANYTHING you say at face value...

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

Other posters may be interested in learning more about Ireland's so-called teflon Prime Minister Bertie Ahern whose limited hang out of his and other Irish politicians' illegalities paid off until the Mahon Tribunal finally reported, and then they are only discussed in a most vague way.

About all we learn is that Ahern had 276,000 Irish punts in his bank accounts, whose origin and destination he never could account for. And, of course, that leaves the most likely possibility of his having had loads of banknotes which he never had to put in any bank for similar purposes.

Of course, Ahern rightly says that they were not bribes of him, and he did not benefit personally from them. But there is no denial by him that I have found of not having given bribes.

The only problem of this scope which such vast sums, it seems, could explain is getting the hard-line Provos to give up the fight - which they did.

Still, a much better explanation of what he really did than remaining under the cloud of being some kind of crook.

The Irish PM was the only kind of conduit who could make the process work - the only person who could supply money with the expectation that the assurances which went along with it would be honored.

[Jamtjim]

Other posters may be interested in learning more about Ireland's so-called teflon Prime Minister Bertie Ahern whose limited hang out of his and other Irish politicians' illegalities paid off until the Mahon Tribunal finally reported, and then they are only discussed in a most vague way.

Indeed they might and in which case they may be well advised to gather their information from a reputable source rather than blindly accept the fictional hypothesis of a crackpot conspiracy theorist.

About all we learn is that Ahern had 276,000 Irish punts in his bank accounts, whose origin and destination he never could account for.

That appears to be true.

And, of course, that leaves the most likely possibility of his having had loads of banknotes which he never had to put in any bank for similar purposes.

But that (as usual from THF) is nothing more than unproven speculation.

Of course, Ahern rightly says that they were not bribes of him, and he did not benefit personally from them. But there is no denial by him that I have found of not having given bribes.

As far as I am aware Trow, there is no denial from you that you regularly stick rabbits up your bottom. Does that mean that we should all assume that you do until you deny it?

And why would anyone deny not giving brides anyway? "I do solemnly swear that at no point did I not give anybody a bride. Instead I bribed everyone in the whole world ...wwhahahaha!" Stupid, stupid, stupid.

The only problem of this scope which such vast sums, it seems, could explain is getting the hard-line Provos to give up the fight - which they did.

Speculation by any chance dear Trow? "The only..." What there really could not be any other explanation?

Still, a much better explanation of what he really did than remaining under the cloud of being some kind of crook.

The Irish PM was the only kind of conduit who could make the process work - the only person who could supply money with the expectation that the assurances which went along with it would be honored.

Really? Much better according to who... oh that's right someone already searching desperately for any anomaly which to manufacture into a conspiracy theory that's who. And are you sure that BA was the only person who could make this work... I doubt that you have sufficient knowledge of the internal workings of both the Irish government at the time as well as the highly covert world of the Provisionals to make such a statement.

But of course, you don't. You just speculate and make up fairy stories. Frankly I am surprised that you haven't dragged yourself into the story yet. Something like that BA teamed up with the IRA in order to try to assassinate you after you inadvertently caught a glimpse of Mrs Ahere's lady bits whilst changing out of her swimsuit whilst on holiday in Portugal... or something equally vapid.

[Uglybetty66]

I'm assuming that this a ghost discussion since I gathered the main protagonists had both folded up their tents and departed. however I would like to contribute my my two pens worth to this discussion. I feel eminently qualified as I know nothing about Irish politics.
Bertie Aherne grew up in a party where things were done a certain way. People gave donations to the party when they wanted something done. Whether this was in the form of money or some others services it matters not a lot. The politicians knew their people and the people knew them. This was helped by the odd system where a TD could also have a position as a local councillor unless they had a cabinet position. This allowed them to stay close to the grass roots of the party.

A son of Eamonn DeValera wrote a biography in which he mentioned that the family often lived in houses supplied by supporters. As I mentioned before that supporting politicians was common practice.
Joining the EU changed all that. Politicians had to conform to certain behaviour patterns imposed from outside. This could be the President of America for all I know.
Instead of stopping the clock and saying (like the Swedish people changing from driving on the left to the right) from this date we are going to operate in this manner - the old behaviour and customs lingered on.
Consequently there have been years of inquiries which have cost far more than the the amount of the alleged bribes and the only people getting rich are the lawyers.
i do not believe that Bertie was ever modified by money. Like all western governments in the post colonial era Ireland want to to be important in the world - to have a say in what is going on.
Ireland is a member of the UN. Bertie and the party wanted to join the British Commonwealth and there have been constant noises in that direction recently. This might be motivated by a desire to make the Unionists feel a little more at home but being at the table with the big hitters is certainly a very strong motivation. Bertie certainly waded into the middle eastern waters with both feet with Bertie being the first person the former palestinian muslim leader Arafat turned in his times of trouble. In my opinion he stands head and shoulders above the current incumbent . They both have the unfortunate habit of hugging people.
Sweden is not immune from this desire to affect world politics although perhaps they may consider themselves better qualified than a country like Ireland.

Unqualified as I am to discuss Irish politics I am even less qualified to discuss the politics of the Ulster region except to say that I am glad I wasn't born there. It seems a very dangerous place. Many good men and women have died on both sides of the political divide to what end. We are all prisoners of our heritage.
I will leave you with this quote which has absolutely no relevance to anything. i am sure the clever
ones among you will have spotted that it was used in a recent TV series.

" I'm awake and dead at the same time. Rough hewn by unfortunate events; given breath by necessity"
On that note I'll bid you all adieu !

[Jamtjim]

I'm assuming that this a ghost discussion since I gathered the main protagonists had both folded up their tents and departed.

No ghosts I'm afraid. Trow quit this forum about a year ago following a bout of false allegations and threats against other forum members, myself included. I for one was sad to see him go as I enjoyed the stimulation debunking his posts provided. As for myself, a while back I found I was getting less and less enjoyment from this forum and so decided to take a hiatus. About a week later and for reasons I don't remember, I came back only to discover that my old friend Trow had mysteriously reappeared within days of my leaving. "The Lord be praised" (so to speak). I realised at this point that I had a reason to post here after all and so with recharged batteries rejoined the fray!!!

As for the rest of your post, it seems that you have made a realistic appraisal of the events surroundings Mr Aherne based upon the information available. Whether BH is motivated by motivated by money or not, the conclusions you come to at least fit within the boundaries of "probable"... take note Trow!!

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

Sorry to get involved with this, Uglybetty66, but Jamtjim is resorting to his usual lies to try to justify his personal attacks in the hope apparently that I shall again leave.

I left last March after Jamtjim, having called him a liar, fraud, and cheat with impunity, posted this thread which I said I would leave if it were not taken down, and when it wasn't, I left:

http://www.thelocal.se/discuss/index.php?showtopic=39681

For posters interested in the sums Bertie Ahern got, and stored in his safes in his home and office - he apparently never had a bank account, just cashed checks at pubs or pawned them off on freinds - I suggest they read this link which indicates more of the sums he obtained to buy off some third parties - a scandal which the Mahon Tribunal covered up at best it coud, at a cost of around 260,000,00 eros from the Irish taxpayer:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7655628...t-payments.html

Still was a bargain since it essentially ended The Troubles, though the Irish and British politicians should still have the guts to say simply what happened.

[Jamtjim]

I left last March after Jamtjim, having called him a liar, fraud, and cheat with impunity, posted this thread which I said I would leave if it were not taken down, and when it wasn't, I left:

http://www.thelocal.se/discuss/index.php?showtopic=39681

Yep, this is the tread where Trow falsely accused me of posting pornography on the forum when in fact it was a promotional video for "Equal Pay Day"... So who is the liar? Watch it for yourself if you are in any doubt. Game, set and match.

For posters interested in the sums Bertie Ahern got, and stored in his safes in his home and office

That's what I like about you Trow. You never shy away from making an unproven, potentially libellous and certainly defamatory allegation.

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

I didn't say it was pornography, Swedesmith did in Posts # 4 and 6 - what I only accepted until I was forced to see the video for myself.

And even then Craptastical admitted that it might be.

And, of course, you ignored the hidden meaning of wet dreams which I don't have, indicating that I have an unhappy sexual relationship when you know nothing of my personal life.

You are really beneath contempt.

[John.Smith]

Well I bet Trow the 1000kr he owes me that he will come back.

Looks like you owe Jimmy a few sheckles

On the topic of Bertie Ahern... I can think of multiple uses he had for the unaccounted money... He was a crook, pure and simple. The absence of hard proof resulted in the Mahon Tribunal stating that he told 'mistruths' i.e. he refused to disclose all information. Bertie tried many different tactics to explain the money including that he *thinks* he *may* have won it betting on horses but cannot remember the horse, the race or the date. If I won €275k on horses I should as hell would remember the day

Although Nertie did do fantastic work on the Good Friday Agreement and the North of Ireland in general, it is still very questionable just how stright he was in relation to his political and business affairs. Back in the 90's Ireland political system (as mentioned by other posters) was highly 'connected' meaning, you could purchase political favours. This has been acknowledged and admitted many times by other political players and business men outside of the scope of the Mahon tribunal. Basically Ireland just spent €300 million to in an attempt to prove corruption... and failed. Saying Bertie told mistruths is very different from saying he lied. Very careful use of words in the report.

He has been kicked out of Fianna Fail party because his ex-associated know that everyone else knows that he was involved in corruption in some level. They want to distance themselves from this.

If Bertie was on some secret mission to pay off the provos then you can be sure that such payments would in no way be traceable to him or the Irish State.... he would not have used his personal account. Even if he had, you could be sure that the necessary arrangements would have been made to ensure that such payments would never see the light of day.

On another note, I do enjoy your writings. Kind of addictive in their own way.

The only problem of this scope which such vast sums, it seems, could explain is getting the hard-line Provos to give up the fight - which they did.Still, a much better explana ... (show full quote)

The only problem of this scope which such vast sums, it seems, could explain is getting the hard-line Provos to give up the fight - which they did.

Still, a much better explanation of what he really did than remaining under the cloud of being some kind of crook. ... (hide full quote)

[Jamtjim]

Check post 14 of that thread and here is a quote from you Trow.

I finally watched the video, and have decided that it is more pornographic than I imagined.

So there you go, you did falsely accuse me of posting pornography and you have lied about doing it again today. Honestly Trow, if you are going to tell porkies then at least be sure that the evidence which proves this is not so easily obtainable. But anyway, it is interesting to see that your honesty hasn't improved over the last year...

And another two quotes from you in this thread...

Post 22:

About all we learn is that Ahern had 276,000 Irish punts in his bank accounts....

Post 26:

For posters interested in the sums Bertie Ahern got, and stored in his safes in his home and office - he apparently never had a bank account...

So which is it Trow? Bank account or never had a bank account... it is unusual even for you to contradict yourself in the same thread. But in any case, one of these two statements is false which means that you have lied about at least one of them...