(edit title) Former Irish PM Bertie Ahern Resigns From Party Fantasy fun with fraudulent Ford Options

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

You can think Bertie is simply a crook, John Smith, but I strongly disagree, especially after you contend that I owe Jimmy anything.

Jimmy offered the bet to posters who still stayed on the site after I left - what none of you took up apparently. It seems like just another attempt to imply that I really did owe Jimmy 1,000 SEK over a bet about earthquakes earlier - what he never even gave his name and address for in order to confirm a real bet.

Is there nothing you guys will not resort to.?

[Jamtjim]

On another note, I do enjoy your writings. Kind of addictive in their own way.

So do I JS... It's rather amusing watching such a comedy of errors a bit like guilty pleasure one gets from watching the no-hopers who audition for X-factor.

Trow, be sure to catch my post number 30. Careful you don't miss it!!!

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

Thought I lost the earlier post because of a site overload while trying to post it, but since it appeared, nothing more is needed with JS.

Jantjim, the video was more pornography than I had imagined.

And the bit about bank accounts, and safes at home and in the office just blows your claims that I set out always with a theory that I then try to shape the facts to when, as always, I follow the facts.

Bertie Ahern not having bank accounts is even a bigger indictment of what he was up to than any evidence that I am a liar. Genuine researchers generally change their minds as they work out a story.

[Jamtjim]

Jantjim, the video was more pornography than I had imagined.

Trow. It contained NO pornography as per any definition of the word... you lied!

And the bit about bank accounts, and safes at home and in the office just blows your claims that I set out always with a theory that I then try to shape the facts to when, as always, I follow the facts.

Two contradicting statements... which means you lied about at least one of them!

Genuine researchers generally change their minds as they work out a story.

Genuine researchers wait until they have all the information before publishing their findings Trow, so as to avoid looking stupid... a technique you have yet to master!

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

Just more of your garbage, Jantjim.

I looked at the whole video now, and it is more pornographic than I orginally thought.

The prurient interest that these exotic acts may induce, what constitutes pornography, lose any redeeming social aspect when they are intended, as you indicated, to produce sexual acts like wet dreams.

And you still don't recognize the difference between anyone changing their minds over time, and lies.

And if you don't believe genuine researchers do it all the time, I suggest you read what Woodward and Bernstein wrote in their articles about Watergate for The Washington Post, what they then put together in All the President's Men where Al Haig is no longer one of them, and then vastly changed their whole research about 'Deep Throat' from Haig to FBI Assistant Director Mark Felt.

[Jamtjim]

I looked at the whole video now, and it is more pornographic than I orginally thought.

I'm sure you watched it Trow (single handed no doubt) but how you can describe something which is clearly not pornographic by any definition which I have discovered as being so is simply to underline your inherent dishonesty. It is simply not pornography but a video promoting equal pay for women. Once again you prove yourself a liar!

The prurient interest that these exotic acts may induce, what constitutes pornography, lose any redeeming social aspect when they are intended, as you indicated, to produce sexual acts like wet dreams.

I'm sorry Trow, but most people are aware of the difference between "suggestive" or even "erotic" and pornographic. It seems you are not. I wonder what this tells us about the other misunderstandings you have.

And you still don't recognize the difference between anyone changing their minds over time, and lies

I recognise a fraud trying desperately to dig themselves out of a hole. You are a liar Trow! It really is as clear as that!

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

Inching towards the truth about the signing of the Good Friday Agreement, and where all the money went - Albert Reynolds is now involved in the process:

Fintan O’Toole: “Power corrupts, but so does a sense of powerlessness”
Mick Fealty,Tue 27 March 2012, 6:15pm4
Bearing in mind some of the moral issues raised by the proposed boycott of the Household Charge, Fintan O’Toole nails a few home truths in his Irish Times column (h/t to the peerless and sainted Olivia O’Leary on RTE’s Drivetime this evening):

We can’t take refuge, either, in comforting explanations for this deep-rooted amorality. The pat answer would be to link it to the decline of religion and in particular of the authority of institutional Catholicism. But the facts don’t support this thesis: Haughey came to power in 1979, when church control was still in its prime. He, Reynolds and Ahern governed as conservative and devout Catholics.
So what does account for the amorality? Powerlessness, surely. Power corrupts, but so does a sense of powerlessness. Civic virtue comes from a belief in both rights and responsibilities, but too many Irish people don’t really believe they have either the rights or the duties of citizens. They don’t have the right to public services – so they wheedle with TDs to get them. Why, then, would they demand high standards of probity from those politicians? If they weren’t cunning enough to pull strings and extract favours, what use would they be?
What it all means is that there’s really no point in making one or two cosmetic reforms in response to Mahon. Systemic corruption demands systemic change. And the purpose of that change has to be the wholesale reinvention of Irish democracy. Irish people won’t stop wheedling and nodding and winking until they believe they really have the power to shape the public realm in which they live.
Powerlessness has made us a nation of chancers. It lets us off the hook – someone else is always in charge: the Brits, the church, Fianna Fáil, Frankfurt. The one chance we’ve never taken collectively is the risk of believing that we have full responsibility for ourselves and each other. Unless we demand the creation of a real republic – built the hard way, from the bottom up – we will breed many more Berties.[Emphasis added]
Tags: corruption, Household Charge

[dave.smith]

I always suspected that Bertie guy was dodgy.

[Jamtjim]

So now Trow is quoting an article:

http://sluggerotoole.com/2012/03/27/fintan...-powerlessness/

Which quotes an article:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinio...4313953857.html

So much for going for the root source then Trow. Oh well at least the fact that it is written by someone other than THF increases the likelihood of it actually being true.

Yeah but Trow had this figured even before BA was born! He has just spent the intervening time trying to create the most selatious fantasy he could out of it. It is quite apparent that he was corrupt, it's just all the other nonsense that Trow invents to fulfil his delude world view which is suspect (to say the least)!

[chazza]

@ JJ
Are you not the guy who was so ecstatic when THF returned to the forum ?

Is that because there is so little intellectual stimulation in your real life you need him for these faux debates ? ( or should that be mental slug fests)

Just curious

[John.Smith]

You can think Bertie is simply a crook, John Smith, but I strongly disagree, especially after you contend that I owe Jimmy anything. Jimmy offered the bet to posters who still ... (show full quote)

You can think Bertie is simply a crook, John Smith, but I strongly disagree, especially after you contend that I owe Jimmy anything.

Jimmy offered the bet to posters who still stayed on the site after I left - what none of you took up apparently. It seems like just another attempt to imply that I really did owe Jimmy 1,000 SEK over a bet about earthquakes earlier - what he never even gave his name and address for in order to confirm a real bet.

Is there nothing you guys will not resort to.? ... (hide full quote)

I will leave you and Jimmy battle that one out, but I wouldn't be making bets that you can't honor.

But back to the topic at hand... why would Bertie use his own accounts for such monetary transaction that hold such importance for the British and Irish states? Surely if Provos were to be paid off it would have been done in hard cash whereby everything in untraceable? No?

Bertie's affairs were far from clean, especially in the 80´s and 90's. His separation from his wife is widely known to have caused him huge financial strain and thus an easy target for hungry business men looking for planning approvals and favors.

[Jamtjim]

Are you not the guy who was so ecstatic when THF returned to the forum ?

I don't know about ecstatic! Pleased perhaps as I seem to enjoy this forum more when Trow is here. I never wanted him to leave in the first place, he is far to good value even if his claims are unmitigated nonsense. However towards the end of his last incarnation when he blew a gasket and started demanding that anyone who disagreed with him should be censored and making defamatory claims about fellow forumites, it became evident for his own sake that perhaps a breather was in order. It seems whilst he took the "timeout" he hasn't really learnt from his past mistakes but instead has simply continued where he left off.

Is that because there is so little intellectual stimulation in your real life you need him for these faux debates ? ( or should that be mental slug fests)

I will freely admit that I relish debunking nonsense in all its forms and conspiracy theories in particular. Perhaps it is better to think of it as a hobby; an enjoyable way to spend a coffee break or lunchtime. I do not feel that I lack intellectual stimulation otherwise (I enjoy watching football, but this doesn't mean I can't enjoy a game of rugby as well if you follow the analogy). Nor is it a "faux" debate; the debate is real even if the conspiracy is bunkum. But I digress.

The only cloud on the virtual horizon of eternal enjoyment is that the act of debunking Trowies claims seems to be getting increasingly easier (or am I getting better at it?) Before, his claims were based predominantly on a presumptive and ultimately flawed argument from authority (his authority to be precise.) However by being caught out and exposed in blatant and provable dishonesty, the value of this authority has plummeted faster than that of a condom in Rick Santorum's wallet. These days when reading a Trowpost, experience shows us that the default assumption should be that the allegations made therein must be untrue unless independently proven otherwise. And I say that not out of any spite towards him, but out of a genuine wish for him to provide us with something a little harder to discount. I for one will certainly enjoy that even more...

I will leave you and Jimmy battle that one out, but I wouldn't be making bets that you can't honor.

It's called "welching" which is another way of saying "to cheat".

[skogsbo]

Governments in the past have paid other nations in cash, often US dollars or even gold, they don't need to use personal accounts. In Iraq there were always several million dollars kept in secure boxes for paying off local contractors, accidentally injured locals, damaged local property. etc. No invoice, no receipts.. just payments from the pot. No need for personal involement. Only a fool would put a provo pay off through their own ac, he is corrupt, but no fool.

[John.Smith]

+1

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

I haven't had any communication with Jimmy in over a year, John Smith, so nothing but your trying to cause trouble is going on with your bringing it up out of nowhere - what I see unscrupulous Jamtjim has joined in. And I do honor my bets despite your insinuation and claims to the contrary.

And the whole bit about Bertie is that he tried to avoid any bank actions which could help trace what he was doing - e. g., stashing currency in safes, chashing check in pubs, endorsing checks made out to him over to others, etc.

For a most questionable, scathing attack on what he was doing - scathing because the reporter had completely changed her mind about Bertie after his last election, read her latest article from the Irish Times:

Friday, March 23, 2012
Martin and Fianna Fáil can spare us the act, we don't want to hear it now

Taoiseach Bertie Ahern arriving at the Mahon tribunal in Dublin Castle on September 20th, 2007. "The most cursory of examinations of the daily transcripts would have shown up his risible stories for the twaddle that they were."Photograph: Kate GeraghtyIn this section »

O'Callaghan and Dunlop had agreed plan to pay councillorsDeveloper Monarch paid councillors voting on rezoning of its Dublin siteThe land deals: what the Tribunal foundTimelineQ&AFailure to disclose source of cash made O'Callaghan link unprovable

MIRIAM LORD

SPARE US your indignation, Micheál Martin. Button your disgust, Fianna Fáil. We don’t want to hear it. You had your chance and you chose to do nothing. So don’t pretend to be shocked now.

Just do us that much. We won’t buy it.

If the tribunal were to take another 15 years to deliver its findings, you’d still be sitting on your hands.
I sat through all of Bertie Ahern’s evidence. It was appalling.

Hilarious? Frequently. Pathetic? Often. Infuriating? Utterly. Embarrassing? Completely.

I didn’t believe it then and I don’t believe it now.

And, unlike the clever people entrusted by us to run the country at the time, I didn’t have to wait years for a tribunal of inquiry to tell me.

But did it matter? Well yes, it did, because this man, grinning in the witness box, was our taoiseach.

He wasn’t a corner-cutting property developer. He wasn’t a millionaire builder, doing what you have to do to close a deal. He wasn’t an amoral middle-man or a small-time councillor on the make.

Bertie Ahern was the prime minister of our country, holder of the highest office in the land.

That’s supposed to mean something.

And he was lying through his teeth. Anybody with half an ounce of wit could see it.

Reporters detailed his ridiculous explanations for the huge amounts of money washing through his myriad accounts, and resting in his office safes. The most cursory of examinations of the daily transcripts would have shown up his risible stories for the twaddle that they were.

But throughout, his government and party turned a blind eye; squirmed and twisted and gave every manner of excuse to avoid the blindingly obvious taking place in full public view in a State-established inquiry.

He was lying.

“Due process,” they spluttered, when not muttering about being too busy to read his lengthy testimony. “It’s not an issue on the doorsteps,” they parroted, as if that made all the difference.

Of course, they couldn’t prejudge the report either. We can’t interfere: let the tribunal take its course, they chorused.

Rubbish.

They commented when it suited them, taking selective quotes from the transcript to bolster their arguments, like when ministers mobilised to insist the tribunal had cleared Ahern of allegations of non-compliance.

It wasn’t true.

The tribunal merely stated it wasn’t addressing these allegations, one way or the other.

Bertie Ahern was not in front of the courts. His evidence was not sub judice. Ministers, backbenchers and cheerleaders could comment, and act, as they saw fit.

But they turned a blind eye to the lies of their leader and instead, attacked the tribunal for daring to ask him legitimate, hard questions. Party, and political expediency was more important than political integrity and public trust in our democracy.

It was spurned for one more twirl on the political gravy train.

If Bertie Ahern was making a mockery of us inside that tribunal chamber, his colleagues were every bit as bad outside of it.

Worse, even. For Bertie was fighting tooth and nail to save his reputation – at least he had a reason.

No surprise then, to see that when the Mahon tribunal chickens finally came home to roost yesterday, Fianna Fáil pushed the young people forward into the line of fire.

Par for the course.

Micheál Martin surfaced on the evening news. Talking to Dobbo – looking almost as sad as Bertie Ahern on that famous evening in September when he poured out his heart to the RTÉ anchorman – Deputy Martin said he accepted the findings of the report and took them very seriously.

Back in 2008, when his leader had them rolling in the aisles with his far-fetched yarns of wads of cash turning up in his office and a “sinking fund” of money to stop that same office from sliding into the river Tolka, Micheál robustly declared that he believed Bertie’s evidence and accused the opposition of using the tribunal process to undermine Ahern’s political leadership.

He wasn’t alone in taking up the cudgels for his beleaguered boss.

But Mahon nailed the spineless and cynical response of those senior ministers to the cross-examination of their leader, their election winner who had to be protected at all costs.

There were “unseemly and partisan attacks” on the tribunal with a “sustained and virulent attack” on their work from “senior government ministers.” It didn’t bother those political paragons in 2007/2008, as they trotted out on to the Leinster House plinth and fanned across the national airwaves to defend the indefensible.

Those of us who were enduring Ahern’s farcical evidence couldn’t help but feel angered and demoralised by the closing of ranks in the cabinet.

Bertie’s colleagues eventually took him out because even they could not stomach the mounting shame caused by his tawdry excuses for all the money he amassed when minister for finance.

Money which was far in excess of his earnings and for which he couldn’t plausibly account.

When a low-paid office secretary, through her tears, was forced to endure two harrowing days in the witness box as part of his faltering efforts to keep up his cover story, they could take no more.

But as a consolation prize, they let Bertie off on a lap of honour around the world and lauded him as the finest politician of his generation.

The former taoiseach was lying even before the tribunal began. After The Irish Times published that first story of very large sums of money flowing into his coffers, Bertie met it head on.

“Off the wall!” he declared, when presented with a figure of between fifty and a hundred thousand pounds.

He was right, in a way. That figure was far larger.

Punts. Sterling. Dollars. It didn’t matter to Bertie. Once it was hard cash. He always dealt in cash, we were repeatedly told.

The saga of the two digouts will go down in song and story. The explanation, told in tearful tones to Bryan Dobson, was that he was hard up for money after his marital separation and his pals rallied around to give him the deposit for a house.

That was another fairytale. His mates, smirking and swaggering, corroborated it. Nobody believed a word of it, not least because the tribunal had already established that Bertie was awash with cash.

Then there was Micheal Wall, the North of England businessman, who attended the Manchester whip-around night but “didn’t eat the dinner.”

He bought a house for Bertie and provided the money to build a conservatory while tens of thousands more were lodged in the bank by Celia Larkin to do up this mini-Versailles in Drumcondra.

She had the receipts. About the only documentary evidence surviving. The tribunal dismissed the entire caper.

Tall story piled upon tall story, until the former taoiseach had to fall back on the time-tested “won-it-on-the-horses” defence to account for some of the cash.

The timing of the hearings was lucky for Bertie. The sums of money involved would have been huge, back in the early 1990s. But he took the stand during the building boom, when the most of the figures under examination could be compared to the deposit on a shoe-box apartment on the outskirts of town.

People, shelling out hundreds of thousands for badly built starter homes, shrugged. Small beer, or so they thought.

Today, deep in negative equity, they think differently. The actions of people who subverted the planning process had a consequence, one they are now living.

But, as Bertie Ahern’s supporters were quick to point out yesterday, he subverted nothing. The tribunal found no proof of corruption.

Just all this money, for which they found he had no credible explanation. In fact, in the circumspect way of judges, they essentially said he lied about where he got that money.

Look. Bertie doesn’t matter anymore. Nor does the buffoonish Pee Flynn or those grasping councillors. Most of Ahern’s cabinet have departed the political scene.

“I believe political loyalty is a virtue and that loyalty will be maintained by the government for the taoiseach on the basis of his achievements” said Brian Cowen, his eventual successor.

But Bertie Ahern was not just their taoiseach.

He was our taoiseach too.

And that’s the tragedy.

He lied. I heard him.

We all saw it.

Our taoiseach dishonoured the office with his tribunal performance. And by deliberately averting their gaze, so too did his colleagues and his party.

So spare us your indignation, Micheál Martin.

Button your disgust, Fianna Fáil.

We don’t want to hear it now.