(edit title) Was It Obama's Surprise Present For Putin's Party? Note the Rantings of a Loony Conspiracy Theorist Options

[jack sprat]

If you start off from scratch from the crash site, you never get anywhere.

In that case we'll start at the beginning and not be sidetracked by 9/11 and Chinook fantasy theories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Superjet_100

History of the "cut price" planes development from drawing board to present day and recent flight history which would better be described as recent grounded history.

Numerous hold-ups during development due to issues with the engines.
Not a very impressive list of potential buyers though apparently Aeroflop have pushed the boat out and bought a few.
A decision which they are allready regretting as the aircraft are spending most of their time sitting on the tarmac rather than in the air due to "technical difficulties and lack of spares".
At present this new wonder aircraft is only capable of flying an average of 3.9hrs per day, (yes get that, only 3.9hrs per day in the air) and the makers Sukhoi are already being sued by Aeroflop for loss of use and loss of income.

What airline could ever hope to make a profit based on those figures ?
I certainly don't see O'Leary rushing to join the buyers queue anytime soon.

Doesn't inspire much confidence for the future and it's a fair bet that most potential buyers will now avoid it like the plague and treat it like a dose of the clap.
Russias first state of the art airliner for many long years could well enter the history books as quickly as its almost forgotten supersonic counterpart and what was meant to be a cut price super efficient success story, now looks destined to be a very expensive flop.

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

Any airplane at 6,000 feet above sea level will crash if it is flown directly, for one reason or another, into a 7,000 foot high volcano.

So what else is new, Sprat?

[Jamtjim]

Just more ignorant, malicious claptrap by our leading resident, anonymous coward.

Yeah whatever Trow. One wonders why somebody who is so sensitive about their "good name" would then go and post utter nonsense using it on on an anonymous forum. It is not cowardice which make me use a moniker, but common sense... no wonder you find that difficult to understand!

My girl friend has nothing to do with my posting;

Perhaps I wasn't referring to your posting Trow!

doctors in Sweden don't make appointments, nurses do who gave me the first appointment she had while advising me to go immediately to Danderyd's ER if my condition worsened or come by early in the morning if my condition had deteriorated overnight; I shall be asking the doctor on the 24th if leisions can be detected on the pancreas, spleen and liver, and can ricin cause them, haven't backed away from my poisoning which I have been living with for over 15 years now.

Exactly, had either you or the nurse really suspected that the problems you were having were a result of having been poisoned, then you would have certainly been seen right away. The only fair conclusion one can come to regarding the actual turn of events has to be that neither of you did. Case closed one and for all on the alleged "poisoning" I would say!

still hoping to determine who you are and sue you for defamation

Yeah, yeah... yawn. Heard it all before Trow! In any case previously you insinuated that you already knew who I was, now you admit that you still have no idea. I guess your posts are as reliable as ever!

You are a disgrace to the human race.

Coming from someone who gleans vicarious enjoyment from the suffering and death of other people and then making up stories about them, I will take that as a compliment!

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

Just more expected claptrap from you, jamtjim.

I never insinuated that I knew who you are because if I knew or thought I knew, you would be hearing from my solicitor about a defamation action or I would already have hired a private eye to track you down.

I only stated that you might well be worth suing as you stated on a thread about making a Swedish will that you had gone to the trouble of having one made up - indicating that you probably have quite considerable assets.

And the only reason I want to establish that I have had long term consequences of having been poisoned in Portugal is so that it would be easier to prove that you defamed me when you have consistently joked about the claim.

Little wonder that you belittle my efforts to find out why when the only reason I want to know is so I can stuff it down your ever-lying throat in court.

[Jamtjim]

I only stated that you might well be worth suing as you stated on a thread about making a Swedish will that you had gone to the trouble of having one made up - indicating that you probably have quite considerable assets.

Or perhaps I only have meagre assets but will be sure I know the destination of them after I eventually (and inevitably) pop my clogs? Guess you'll never know...

And the only reason I want to establish that I have had long term consequences of having been poisoned in Portugal is so that it would be easier to prove that you defamed me when you have consistently joked about the claim.

Joking about a claim is not defamation Trow. Perhaps you should look up the meaning of words before using them!

Little wonder that you belittle my efforts to find out why when the only reason I want to know is so I can stuff it down your ever-lying throat in court.

Right, so once again you show that, rather than defending your reputation, the real reason for wanting to start legal action against me is malicious and out of revenge for constantly debunking you. Oh well, at least we can take this as an admission that you wish the free speech which you demand for yourself be denied other people. I guess the label of hypocrite applies even more to you today than it ever did!

[The Nine]

Just more expected claptrap from you, jamtjim.I never insinuated that I knew who you are because if I knew or thought I knew, you would be hearing from my solicitor about a de ... (show full quote)

Just more expected claptrap from you, jamtjim.

I never insinuated that I knew who you are because if I knew or thought I knew, you would be hearing from my solicitor about a defamation action or I would already have hired a private eye to track you down.

I only stated that you might well be worth suing as you stated on a thread about making a Swedish will that you had gone to the trouble of having one made up - indicating that you probably have quite considerable assets.

And the only reason I want to establish that I have had long term consequences of having been poisoned in Portugal is so that it would be easier to prove that you defamed me when you have consistently joked about the claim.

Little wonder that you belittle my efforts to find out why when the only reason I want to know is so I can stuff it down your ever-lying throat in court. ... (hide full quote)

The crash teams are only now getting to the site. They have to lift it off the hill side and go through every component when it is laid out in a hangar. Only then will the truth come out. As usual, you jump to conclusions and paint them as fact. You are a joke. If you had the slightest angle on Obama's wind up for the election, you would know that he is garner support abroad. If you check Youtube, you can see the off-record chat he had with Medvedev six months ago (that was recorded) That is not a man trying to piss off the Russians. You are an idiot, just looking for desperate attention.

[chazza]

...and constantly getting that desperate attention you mentioned above from the likes of you and Jamtjim

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

Now we learn that the Terrrain Awareness and Warning System (TAWS) on the Sukhoi was turned off so as not to interfere with the usual joy ride. There is a photograph of the plane's instrument panel shortly before takeoff, showing it not switched on.

Before its most experienced pilot could show the passengers the sights, and what the plane could do, however, it seems that the pilot had to make a steep descent because the air-conditioning system broke down, either failing to produce anough oxygen for the passengers' comfort or consciouness or providing some kind of noxious gas.

Because to the unexpected emergency, he dived for a safe altitude as the feared panic in the cabin would turn off all the interested passengers. In the process of doing so, the TAWS didn't alert him, however, that he was on a suicide mission.

Unless the search party finds the black box - what it hasn't done so far - we might not know much more because of everyone wanting to cover up what really happened.

Could be like the Chinook helicopter crash where the pilots were blamed at first for the disaster, only to have it set aside years later, leaving its cause an official mystery.

[mångk]

Trow was the photo taken pre check or post?

The pilot requested to descend to 6000ft, he met the mountain after that at more than 6100ft.

Is it possible the pilot was trying to show off the TAWS in limited visibility? One can only speculate.

The area the crash happened is well-known for air crashes and is called the aircraft graveyard.

Witness testimony suggests that the directly before the crash the plane hit significant turbulence and then there was a significant change in the sound of the engines. It is possible that the plane hit a significant down draft and dropped several hundred feet followed by hitting dead air directly before impact. Coupled with the computer systems limiting the evasive actions of the pilot, the plane was not able to clear that particular mountain. Again speculative and more probable.

If the USA was to do some type of covert op it would be against the Sukhoi t-50 out of fear that it would give whoever purchases it a significant advantage over USA built fighter jets. Not to mention that the t-50 is very cheap compared to the F-35 & f-22.

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

Don't know, and probably never will, if it was pre- or post-check, though the disaster certainly looks like the TAWS was never turned on - what you would certainly want if you were showing off the sights, and what the plane could do.

The change in the engine noise was probably the pilot wanting to get to 6,000 feet as soon as possible, given the problem with the air-conditioning - what made the call necessary.

Don't have much faith in what any alleged eye witness claim, as the one closest to the crash site only said he heard it overhead.

And you talking about the USA taking out a jetfighter doesn't make much sense.

Never heard of the one you mention, but Indonesia is going ahead with the deal about buying six Su-30MKK jetfighters since it has already paid for them, and what happened to the Su-100 is completely irrelevant to the capability of the fleet it has bought from Moscow.

I cannot think of any act of sabotage which would be more supportive of US strategic interests than bringing down the jetliner.

[mångk]

The eye witness reports the engine screaming shortly before, typical for hitting dead air and attempting to climb rapidly to avoid a collision. Computers limit the pilots power request due to it being outside of the operational bubble. Plane cannot climb enough to avoid the mountain.

T-50 is the proto type jet fighter that is capable of competing with (and beating) the F-22 (now discontinued and not for sale outside USA). the SU-30's Indonesia already has and is purchasing more of are superior to the f-35 even though it is a generation behind. The su-30 is the two seater variant of the su-35, an updated version of the su-27.

It does not make much sense to interfere with the Su-100 as it is a 'open source' project.

Strategically more sense to limit the the T-50 so that the USA can sell f-35 as it plans to.

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

The Russian Investigative Committee of the Duma is investigating the crew's training, and the technical condition of the Sukhoi 100, indicating that it suspects that the plane was not in flying condition before takeoff, and the crew did not respond properly to some emergency - what sounds like sabotage which the crew compounded by its reaction to it.

It seems to be looking for what was behind obvious pilot error, descending 4,000 feet for fear that the passengers would pass out or die because of what vapor was being circulated in the cabin by the air-conditioning system.

Then the crew should have lowered the masks so that each passenger got have his own supply of proper air, but instead it panicked, causing the pilot's hasty descent.

The root of the disaster apparently is what kind of air was on the plane, and did the crew check it before takeoff..

Actually, the most experienced pilot's overreaction was good for the company but not so good for the passengers.
Everyone is just focused on his errors, and no expected purchasers, it seems, are turning their backs on its purchase.

Just shows again that the best laid plots usually turn out different than planned, generally worse. The ones that work are where the fewest, reliable players are involved - like the MI5-FRU sabotaging of the landing of the Chinook helicopter on the Mull of Kintrye on June 2, 1994, killing the leading military and intelligence officers who were attempting a more generous settlement of The Troubles under the GFA with the Provisional IRA than the hardliners would accept.

[Hamsterdam]

We can never rule out sabotage in International affairs and in this case it is certainly possible. We will never know though. It is not like we can trust a word that comes out of Russia.

Putin however, will ultimately be undone by his own people. There will be tanks on the lawns of the Kremlin within two years. Put money on it.

[skogsbo]

what sounds like sabotage which the crew compounded by its reaction to it.It seems to be looking for what was behind obvious pilot error, descending 4,000 feet for fear that t ... (show full quote)

what sounds like sabotage which the crew compounded by its reaction to it.

It seems to be looking for what was behind obvious pilot error, descending 4,000 feet for fear that the passengers would pass out or die because of what vapor was being circulated in the cabin by the air-conditioning system.

Then the crew should have lowered the masks so that each passenger got have his own supply of proper air, but instead it panicked, causing the pilot's hasty descent.

The root of the disaster apparently is what kind of air was on the plane, and did the crew check it before takeoff..

Actually, the most experienced pilot's overreaction was good for the company but not so good for the passengers.
Everyone is just focused on his errors, and no expected purchasers, it seems, are turning their backs on its purchase.

Just shows again that the best laid plots usually turn out different than planned, generally worse. The ones that work are where the fewest, reliable players are involved - like the MI5-FRU sabotaging of the landing of the Chinook helicopter on the Mull of Kintrye on June 2, 1994, killing the leading military and intelligence officers who were attempting a more generous settlement of The Troubles under the GFA with the Provisional IRA than the hardliners would accept. ... (hide full quote)

How do you know it was sabotage?
Planes don't carry air, just tanks of oxygen
Failed air con unit, again, how do you know?
Did the plan descend to 4,6,7 or thousand your tale varies?
Chinook, give it up,I've told you that your story was rubbish before there.
Oxygen masks, how do you know they weren't deployed, been to the crash site?

[*Trowbridge H. Ford*]

Just continuing nonsense from you, Skogsbo.

I have never changed anything about the plane's descent - i. e., it started at 10,000 feet, and then went down to 6,000 feet, and in the process it attained an altitude which could support life with air from the outside.

I have consistenly stated the people need oxygen to life, and has to be in the air in the cabin.

I have never said that I know that it was the result of sabotage, only stated that it looks like it, given how the company's personnel has been treated in the country.

And its seems like the masks should have been lowered, given the altitude that the plane was at to start with.

And this lame complaint about my not having gone there is particularly uncalled here since there is almost nothing there to find, even if the passengers were wearing masks or not since almost everything has been tore apart.

And you have not debunked my theory about the Chinook helicopter being dliberatedly on the wrong course to crash into the Hill of Stone rather than make a surprise landing at the helicopter pad on the Mull of Kintyre.

What makes you make such false claims?