(edit title) Now that so many countries are condemning Syria I wonder If Sweden will follow suit? Options

[byke]

I have seen today that after preliminary examinations that the majority of women and children were executed.
I wonder if Sweden will follow other nations who have condemned the violence and expel their diplomats?

If not, why not?
And what happens to those expelled from different nations? are they simply rotated ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18252818

[Tarc the Mexan]

Probably not, Carl Bildt is too afraid of offending potential future business partners in Syria.

[skumdum]

Sweden has already condemned the violence in Syria.

[byke]

I wonder if Sweden will follow other nations who have condemned the violence and expel their diplomats?. If not, why not?

Sweden has already condemned the violence in Syria.

Condemnation is one thing, But the question was if they would follow suit and expel diplomats.
Does anyone know if SAAB or its Saudi partner supply weapons to the Assad regime?

[Yorkshireman]

From the news:

Sweden is not expelling Syrian diplomats because the Swedes are concerned that would affect their own diplomatic presence in Syria. Sweden believes that it's important to maintain that presence in order to have contacts "not least with the opposition," said Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Catarina Axelsson.

[Hamsterdam]

Carl Bildt = one man self preservation society.

[byke]

There was a horrible detailed account regarding the wounds found on many of the dead children in the times today. Where torture had played a part in their death. One very small child (baby) had looked perfectly normal, appart from the arm that had been removed prior to its death.

From the news:Sweden is not expelling Syrian diplomats because the Swedes are concerned that would affect their own diplomatic presence in Syria. Sweden believes that it's ... (show full quote)

From the news:

Sweden is not expelling Syrian diplomats because the Swedes are concerned that would affect their own diplomatic presence in Syria. Sweden believes that it's important to maintain that presence in order to have contacts "not least with the opposition," said Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Catarina Axelsson. ... (hide full quote)

I really wonder what this statement translates to.
As if it does relate to trade and weapons sales, it would put Sweden on par with Russia.

[byke]

A number of countries - the US, UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, Australia, Switzerland, Canada, Japan and Turkey - have now expelled Syrian ambassadors and officials.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18260992

Yet Sweden seems to have taken a stance with that of Russia and China?
God bless democracy.

[carterhayes]

I honestly do not see the point of expelling diplomats. If you do that, you have no means of negotiating or discuss internal / external affairs. Expelling a diplomat for other reasons than crime or to call them up and declare them persona non grata due to its countries domestic politics are really two different issues. Diplomats are needed to represent their countries abroad. I dont care too much about American foreign politics but should we expel the American diplomats for that reason?

[byke]

I honestly do not see the point of expelling diplomats. If you do that, you have no means of negotiating or discuss internal / external affairs. Expelling a diplomat for other ... (show full quote)

I honestly do not see the point of expelling diplomats. If you do that, you have no means of negotiating or discuss internal / external affairs. Expelling a diplomat for other reasons than crime or to call them up and declare them persona non grata due to its countries domestic politics are really two different issues. Diplomats are needed to represent their countries abroad. ... (hide full quote)

Isn't in part about recognition?
If a country or a regime is not recognized it has a greater chance of outside intervention.

In many ways its a stronger way than sanctions for countries to say that this regime or government is no longer respected and steps are being implemented to ensure changes are made (aka your time is coming). If the Syrian government then find themselves without enough qualified representatives, it will struggle to maintain its legitimacy on the world stage. And if it fails to do that, then it paves the way for easier international intervention to remove said regime and justify hostile reprisals.

Its one thing to say a country has been naughty ("we are taking the toys out of your play pen" - aka sanctions)
Its another to get your diplomats kicked out (Aka proper threat "Try that again and we will kick ya f****n teeth in)

 

 

[carterhayes]

Yes, i agree, but Swedens past when it comes to that is really strange. We did not acknowledge East Germany until 1974, Tibet, Palestine... Meanwhile we have had diplomatic relations with North Korea for ages way beyond most other countries.

I honestly dont know, it just seems rather drastic to do that as most countries let Saddam Hussein get away with gasing 5000 Kurds, or Israel bombing refugee camps. Maybe its just easier to think of Syria as an unimportant trade partner with very low international credibility as it is, regardless of how they treat our population. I did not even know Sweden had a conflict with Libya or Egypt before the Arabian spring - at least no Swedish politicians seemed to think so...

[Yorkshireman]

Whilst removing diplomats sends a message, the normal response is the other country expels Your Diplomats... once all Diplomats are gone ... You lose the channels of reliable information about what is going on in that country.

Sweden is just being cautious.

[NebulaStardust]

I have seen today that after preliminary examinations that the majority of women and children were executed.I wonder if Sweden will follow other nations who have condemned the ... (show full quote)

I have seen today that after preliminary examinations that the majority of women and children were executed.
I wonder if Sweden will follow other nations who have condemned the violence and expel their diplomats?

If not, why not?
And what happens to those expelled from different nations? are they simply rotated ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18252818 ... (hide full quote)

There are a few things we must consider in the question of Syria:
- it is not Assad that has not opted for a ceasefire
- it is not Assad posing a danger to the UN contingency
- the so-called rebels have consistently refused any ceasefire
- the CIA (NY Times etc) have had their people on the Syrian/Turkish borders for weeks now helping to arm the insurgents - this is illegal in a manner of ways.
- if the CIA (illegal to do anything in any country including the USA) is being seen to be active we can expect that to mean we're seeing just the tip of the ice-berg.
- the insurgents do not have a leader within Syria - though we have heard a spokes-person he does not represent the various factions.
- Assad has stated that, if it means peace, he will step down. If we accept this than we must have a cease fire and work things out. However, the factions will not listen to any compromise
- if the factions do take over Syria we will see what has happened in Libya (poorly reported upon). Ethnic cleansing, torture (doctors without borders have reported much torture and people coming to their clinic multiple times.
- terror rides high in much of Libya
- Syria would likely be worse with good people taking the brunt of the savagery from the bad. This is always the way.

Further:
- there was never an Arab Spring -- this is a complete propaganda message absorbed by the media. Tell me where, outside of Tunisia perhaps, where an Arab Spring has occured.
- Not in Bahrain - the demonstrations were put down very quickly there by Bahrain and emergency military from Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
- Not in Saudi Arabia - that attempt was put down hard. We do not know who or how many were put to death for this attempt in Saudi Arabia. No one seems to be asking.
- Not in Egypt with the US/Israel backed dictator Mubarak ousted. - there remains hope I guess but not much.
- Not in Libya - Libyans lost one hell of a lot with this. Resolution 1973 - Humanitarian Bombing - Come on, children! I saw this as a child's fantasy immediately.
- Iraq is a mess. They have kept control of their oil and the Americans have been left out for now. Interesting development but no Arab Spring.
- Palestine continues to have illegal settlements built in their land by Israel. No spring for them.
- Lebanon is beginning to crumble with the war extending from Syria.
- Algeria uprisings seem to have gone nowhere.
- Yemen continues to be pounded by bombs and missiles by Predator Drones. For each target an average of 50 innocents are killed - Each target is an assassination which is a war crime (ie: target = person)
- Pakistan continues to have its civilians killed in the same manner as in Yemen.
- Afghanistan may never recover.
- Iran - usa cyber attacks (USA never shuts up about the horrors of cyber attacks upon themselves of course.
- Iran - Scientists assassinated by the MOSSAD (Israel) War crime. Murder
- Iran - oil embargo for no reason. If Iran made a dozen nuclear bombs next month ( exaggeration for a purpose) they could still not bomb Israel - Israel now- has an estimated 700 nuclear bombs. USA protects their RIGHT to have secret nuclear bombs!!! No inspections allowed. This has got to be the biggest piece of BS afloat in the nightmare of today.

So, what's really happening in this great cloud?
- the USA is still putting missiles very, very close to Russia on a long stretch along its southern border.
- the USA - Obama will not discuss this until after his election in November 2012 - the lighter minds believe that - if he wins he will be nice to Russia and arrange talks - the more clued in will note this just to be a stall as the missiles continue to be placed.
- the USA believes that this defence shield will give them a first strike opportunity with other facets of this put in place
- they tell us its a defence against Iran. lol sad
- Iran being an ally to Russia is being set up to be taken out.
- Syria is being taken out

I think you can put this together.

[NebulaStardust]

Yes, i agree, but Swedens past when it comes to that is really strange. We did not acknowledge East Germany until 1974, Tibet, Palestine... Meanwhile we have had diplomatic re ... (show full quote)

Yes, i agree, but Swedens past when it comes to that is really strange. We did not acknowledge East Germany until 1974, Tibet, Palestine... Meanwhile we have had diplomatic relations with North Korea for ages way beyond most other countries.

I honestly dont know, it just seems rather drastic to do that as most countries let Saddam Hussein get away with gasing 5000 Kurds, or Israel bombing refugee camps. Maybe its just easier to think of Syria as an unimportant trade partner with very low international credibility as it is, regardless of how they treat our population. I did not even know Sweden had a conflict with Libya or Egypt before the Arabian spring - at least no Swedish politicians seemed to think so... ... (hide full quote)

Please note that the gas that Saddam used was provided through a change in the embargo upon Iraq at the time by President Reagan. Germany was one supplier of the necessary chemicals as were some companies in the USA. The gas was first used to kill 3,000 Iranian soldiers fighting to protect Iran from the invaders from Iraq and the Iranians were on their own soil.

Iranians tried to attack through the north and were gasses there too as were the Kurds. The Americans were well aware of this as they were giving Saddam spy satellite information to target his 'enemies'. (lots more on this)

Though Syria has gotten a huge amount of bad press and have done some bad things they are hardly the devil the USA likes to make them out to be. There were many foreigners happily living in Syria from the USA to the Philippines. There was a decent economy and a strong willingness to protect the many different Arab peoples making up the population of Syria. A lot could change for the better but this is wrong and will not make a right.

Libya had changed drastically by 2008 when it was made a member of the UN Security Council. Khadafi was up for two humanitarian awards at the time of the "Humanitarian Assault" that led to his murder and his son's incarceration. And, I must add Hillary Clinton's laughing fit at Khadafi's murder. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_zFln7L1H8

Sweden's conflict problems are a result of belonging to NATO now an arm of the USA. Our PM (Canada) Harper says we ought to follow our allies (USA) no matter what. We need our own real Spring and have him voted out of office!

[NebulaStardust]

Isn't in part about recognition?If a country or a regime is not recognized it has a greater chance of outside intervention.In many ways its a stronger way than sanctions f ... (show full quote)

Isn't in part about recognition?
If a country or a regime is not recognized it has a greater chance of outside intervention.

In many ways its a stronger way than sanctions for countries to say that this regime or government is no longer respected and steps are being implemented to ensure changes are made (aka your time is coming). If the Syrian government then find themselves without enough qualified representatives, it will struggle to maintain its legitimacy on the world stage. And if it fails to do that, then it paves the way for easier international intervention to remove said regime and justify hostile reprisals.

Its one thing to say a country has been naughty ("we are taking the toys out of your play pen" - aka sanctions)
Its another to get your diplomats kicked out (Aka proper threat "Try that again and we will kick ya f****n teeth in) ... (hide full quote)

No. I can understand for reasons of safety. However, if we are to make any diplomatic change we need to be there to talk.