(edit title) I regret moving to Sweden Biggest mistake I've ever made Options

[skogsbo]

Shame on you for suggesting the UK, USA, Canada...etc.. doesn't have a totally fair and equal employment culture, even for those who don't speak English.

[gplusa]

Yes, how very dare me ! The problem is that growing up inside those countries, you don't see the issues. If you're a native of that country you are immune to the problem and assume that everyone is treated the same as yourself. Just as the OP says that native Swedes think.

I always remember one of my senior government managers in NZ telling me: "You don't hire them if you can't say their name".

[Garry Jones]

I sympathise entirely and understand what you mean, I am white, 50, I have lived here for 24 years and my work experience counted for nothing in Sweden.

I was a young computer professional in the 1980's. By the mid-eighties I was on £1000 a week before tax. The Swedish Embassy told me, in March 1988 that I would not need to learn Swedish because the computer language was English. They told me I would be able to walk into any computer job.

Wrong!

Because I had no qualifications I was completely out of synch with the Swedish systsem. In the UK I had started as a trainee straight from school and received my training on the job in live situations rather than a classroom. This gave me the best training as I also learnt from a very young age about work ethics. During the 80's the company employed computer graduates (mostly unavailable in the 70's). They were as a bunch totally useless. They had the same skills in theory but had not had to work hard for a living from the age of 16. There are some things you just can not learn in school. If I had been changing jobs in England I would have been more qualified because of my experience than people that had learnt the same knowledge in school.

Not so in Sweden. Every company I wrote to wanted my formal qualifications. The snobbery around this is widespread and generally accepted by the Swedes who have been a passive nation of sheep never wanting to rock the boat or question the state norms for nigh on 100 years.

One unconnected example. Your local library. They will have qualified librarians and library assistants. The qualified ones earn 5000-10000 crowns more a month. They do basically the same job, how hard can it be to say "your book is late, that'll be a 50 crown fine". The assistants will have worked in the job longer and generally be as able to help you as any of the qualified ones. However the assistants accept their lower salary with glee as they have not been to "library university". Having worked behind the scenes in a "culture house" as a computer technician in Sweden were they housed the library I saw this at first hand. I also witnessed the "sending to Coventry" of a lady who also worked there in another department. For instance, her predecessor who was very popular, always received help. When the monthly 1000 invitations to art shows were to be sent out the entire library staff used to help out at coffee break with the envelope packing. The new lady never got any help. They did not take to her because she had been to finishing school in France and came from a posh area in Stockholm. It ended up her and two others being sick for a few months (due to stress) so a local politician proposed they would take away her job and create a new job title for someone else to do the same work. When I pressed him at staff meeting it transpired the new job would be given to him himself, the local politician. However, it was said this could only be implemented if 100% of the staff were behind it. I spoke out and said no at the meeting. Job done? No, he then says, if we can't get a 100% we will take a majority decision and then said "Do we really need a computer technician anyway?". I understood the threat. Nobody else stood up and his plans were implemented, with him as a new boss. 2 months later he outsourced the computer work and I was made redundant.

So, rewind to when I first moved here in 88. My first job: Cleaning trains. Wiping up sick and excreta from train floors on a daily basis. Twice cutting myself on drug syringes and having to take HIV tests. A long way from my £1000 a week in The City. And the Swedish companies who refused to give me a job suffered from a work-force without my energy and skills.

Your problem is harder because you are black. Swedes are, in general, very racist. They have a allowed a Nazi Party to take office in Government. Under the same freedom of speech banner that allowed Hitler to rise to power they permit this party to spew out their garbage and hate speech.

As I grew up in South London, Herne Hill, Brixton in the 60's I never saw black people as any different to whites. At school some kids were short, some were tall, some were girls, some were boys, some were white, some were black. London being the perfect multi-racial city it is today is a show-case of integration for the world.

In Sweden it is still a very different kettle of fish. I never understood the meanings of the word immigrant until I moved here. A Swede, in general, will automatically presume that every one with a yellow, black or brown skin colour is an immigrant.

They spread rumours that everyone believes. Worryingly most of the racists are closet racists who voice their hate in small circles of friends. Of course this will get in your way.

However, its not all that black. If you live in a major city you will be more accepted. What you need to do now is get yourself a formal education. Take 3 years out of your life, apply for the student grants, and get a qualification in what ever line of work you would like to work in. Because, strangely enough the Swedes with qualifications tend to be less racist than factory floor workers who left school at 16-19.

If you have a certificate of education in a field were there are job vacancies you will be able to find a good job earning 35000-45000 a month - in three years time. Don't see three years as a long time. I did, 24 years ago and I still regret it today. If I had taken those three years the following 21 would have been a whole lot easier.

Sweden is a good place to live. I hope you stick it out. If you are not prepared to take those three years now move back to the UK.

[SOIS.COM]

Shame on you for suggesting the UK, USA, Canada...etc.. doesn't have a totally fair and equal employment culture, even for those who don't speak English.

In south Florida it's possible to spend the whole day not hearing English spoken with the bonus of better Cuban food than found in Havana. The difference between Canada, UK, USA vs. Sweden is they are immigrant cultures and a lot of the barriers for immigrants have been broken down where they still exist in Sweden. One question is, is it a good idea to remove those barriers in Sweden?

Why Sweden decided to have such an open immigration policy is beyond me? What is the advantage Sweden has to offer immigrants? What benefit to Sweden are the demographic of immigrants that comes here?...Small country, on the periphery of civilization, with a quirky language and people, and unexciting tax loopholes. The smart and young go to the USA, UK, Canada the old and wealthy to Switzerland or another tax haven.

Comparatively, your neighbors Finland and Norway have done a great deal more good for their people than Sweden has regarding their immigration policie. Although, Norway in being invaded by Swedish work refuges who are non-threateningly attempting to make a "godt" culture "lagom" and replace ø and æ with ö and ä. Considering Norway nearly had a civil war over bokmål and nynorsk them is fighting words. :-)

Swedes are big on social experiments in the socialist tradition, this "scientific" pursuit is a long and ongoing infatuation that has gone on for several generations. The government used to clean up the lab when the experiment failed horrifically today, it seems they just build a new lab and let the old lab to be run by the test subjects. Taking that point of view helps to explain the state of Sweden and is worth a good laugh.

[Migga]

I have been living in Sweden now for 3 years after moving here from London, and I am now starting to regret ever coming here. I wish that I had done my homework first about Sw ... (show full quote)

I have been living in Sweden now for 3 years after moving here from London, and I am now starting to regret ever coming here. I wish that I had done my homework first about Swedes in general before I decided to come here to live. Sweden prides itself on being this great multi-cultural society, internationally respected for its equality to all people but this is just a myth. The truth is, I believe that most Swedes would prefer if there were no foreigners here at all, well perhaps only a few foreigners to help clean up their mess as this seems to be the only jobs that us foreigners can get. Take a good look around when you are next in the tunnelbana or at Mcdonalds, and you will see that all of the cleaners are foreigners. Even the taxi drivers are mostly foreigners as Swedes see this as work that is beneath them.
I recently telephoned a delivery company to ask about a job. The Swedish man on the other end of the line asked me, "where do you come from"?. "I come from London" I said. "Are you a proper Englishman", he said. "Yes, I think so because I was born in London" I replied. "Ok, can you come immediately to meet me and I will give you a job becuase we need drivers", the man said. "Yes, I will be there in 30 minutes", I said.
Well 30 minutes later, I arrived at the work place and the man came out to meet me. The look on his face when he saw me was incredible and he immediately asked me, "are you the person I was speaking to on the telephone about the job"?. "Yes I am" I said.
Well to cut a long story short, I didn't get the job because he was expecting a 'white englishman'. He even told me that he doesn't usually have foreigners working at his company. True story.
Just last week I went to one of these job recruitment meeting which was arranged by a well known consultant agency, we were told to put our names on the list when we arrived and that we would be called in for a short interview. Well after a short while, I started to notice a strange pattern occuring when each name was being called out. The consultant would call out, Svensson, Eriksson, Johansson, Bjorksson, Fredriksson, Nielsson, even when I was certain that Mr Habib and Mrs Abdul arrived before any of the Svenssons. True Story.
But you have gotta hand it to the Swedes, they are very clever. Whenever you mention the very notion that racism is at work, they act completely gobsmacked and surprised at the very idea that they could be in any way racist. Take for example this 'rule' that we have to be able to speak perfect swedish just to get a job. This in my opinion is rubbish and a very clever way of keeping certain people down and from getting a job because you cannot tell me that a man that drives a truck all day cannot do his job properly if he couldn't speak swedish.
In Sweden the best place to be sick is in the back of a cab..You can be sure that the driver is an unemployed doctor from Iran. Welcome to Sweden. ... (hide full quote)

So what do you want us to discuss? This is a forum and the purpose of it is to discuss issues. What is your question? What is the issue? What is it that you want us to talk about? As it stands now it`s just one person's story on display. That won`t lead to a discussion, it will only make other people pat you on your back or tell their own story. That`s no discussion.

What is your point? Is it to tell your story? To start a discussion? To bash Sweden and Swedes? To help others thinking about coming to Sweden? To warn others? What is it?

[sometimesinsweden]

Maybe all of the latter. Either way, it's his/her opinion so why get upset by it.

My thoughts are that the labour market in Sweden is much harder to get into than the UK and US, so often what is perceived as racism and xenophobia is merely that - I know plenty of white Swedes struggling to get work at the moment.

Can't say I've noticed excessive open racism, although am white so obviously won't receive it, but have friends of colour who occasionally complain about it, but a lot of that seems to be the normal difficulties caused by not understanding how a system works or language difficulty - it is a bit too easy to blame racism sometimes. I've heard a few strange views from older people, but this is no different from what I've heard from that generation in the UK, Ireland, Spain and Italy.

[gplusa]

I would suggest that the advantage that Sweden offers many immigrants is the opportunity not to get shot at any more. All a matter of perspective I guess.

[Migga]

Maybe all of the latter. Either way, it's his/her opinion so why get upset by it.My thoughts are that the labour market in Sweden is much harder to get into than the UK an ... (show full quote)

Maybe all of the latter. Either way, it's his/her opinion so why get upset by it.

My thoughts are that the labour market in Sweden is much harder to get into than the UK and US, so often what is perceived as racism and xenophobia is merely that - I know plenty of white Swedes struggling to get work at the moment.

Can't say I've noticed excessive open racism, although am white so obviously won't receive it, but have friends of colour who occasionally complain about it, but a lot of that seems to be the normal difficulties caused by not understanding how a system works or language difficulty - it is a bit too easy to blame racism sometimes. I've heard a few strange views from older people, but this is no different from what I've heard from that generation in the UK, Ireland, Spain and Italy. ... (hide full quote)

It`s not upsetting, it`s as you say just one persons opinion. Nothing else. It doesn`t move me in the least. If it was based on facts I would take more notice. If you look at the facts the labour market in Sweden is doing loads to get immigrants working;

http://www.mipex.eu/sweden

That is what seems to be the issue at hand, immigrants and employment. Of course there is racism, it exists everywhere. But it`s my opinion that it isn`t as widespread as the OP or Garry Jones is trying to make it out. I think the reasons you have given make sense and I also have some of my own. Some that SOIS.COM already alluded to.

Why would a skilled, young, educated and driven person move to a small country up north where he needs to learn a specific language when he can move to the USA, Canada, the UK or Australia? Places where you can live cheaper, make more money, pay less taxes and only need english. The answare is that one doesn`t do that. Perhaps for love but not for many other reasons.

So what immigrants do make their way to Sweden? As of late it`s asylum seekers and refugees from war-torn countries in the third world;

http://statistics.heliohost.org/utrikes_1900/

Some of the people living there have no education, no sense of some other countries culture or language, skills that are not applicable and so on. It`s hard for a company to employ such a person. My point is that there is two sides to the issue of immigrants and the swedish labour market. People are very quick to point out the problems with the swedish labour market but fail to hold individuals responsible.

[sometimesinsweden]

Fair enough.

My main issue with the Swedish labour market, as a foreigner, is that there seems to be a lot of middle-aged people in jobs who are just riding out their time and dont give a toss - they know they can't be sacked and are doing a bad job that could be done better by someone else - either younger or foreign. It seems more acute in Sweden than other countries in which I have lived and worked. However, this is fairly well-documented by 'ethnic' Swedes...

[Migga]

That`s fine.

Sweden seem to be doing well enough though. It isn`t perfect, some will get a bad experience, but it`s like that in every country. Especially if you are a minority.

[stupr]

@ gplusa

I agree. The same argument could be raised pretty much anywhere, and everyone can have a bad experience regardless of where you move to.

Myself, been here for 4 years. Love Sweden and feel 'accepted' according to my definition. Have more Swedish friends than I do back home and I respect their culture(s) as they do mine. I get involved with Swedish traditions and the way of life here (even if I think some things are betetr back home), whilst still maintaining and celebrating the traditions of my home country. My Swedish friends have adapted to me almost as much as I have adapted to them.

To the people who say "you don't need to learn Swedish to work in so many jobs", well I am sorry, I disagree. Even driving a truck would require you to speak some Swedish and for you to know the rules of the road in Sweden. Would he employ someone in London who couldn't speak English?

Good luck anyway!

[byke]

Katie Holmes is divorcing her husband, Tom Cruise.

However according to reports, scientologists are outside her house and are trying to ensure that no one tarnishes or exposes what they hold dear to them ... through the use of intimidation or other tactics.

#Swedentologists

[byke]

I would suggest that the advantage that Sweden offers many immigrants is the opportunity not to get shot at any more. All a matter of perspective I guess.

Oh I know ...
I heard they nuke people in other countries as well ....

Also in parts of europe they try to blow up peoples houses of immigrants on a daily basis and feed HIV through their water system.

Thank god sweden saves all.

#Prick

[SOIS.COM]

@ gplusaTo the people who say "you don't need to learn Swedish to work in so many jobs", well I am sorry, I disagree. Even driving a truck would require you to s ... (show full quote)

@ gplusa

To the people who say "you don't need to learn Swedish to work in so many jobs", well I am sorry, I disagree. Even driving a truck would require you to speak some Swedish and for you to know the rules of the road in Sweden. Would he employ someone in London who couldn't speak English?

Good luck anyway! ... (hide full quote)

+1, if you expect to generate an income in Sweden you should speak Swedish or be in a position to hire people that do. If you do not or not able to learn Swedish or are too poor or untalented to open your own company and hire people who speak Swedish you should move or figure out a way to generate an income from outside the country.

I know a few people here who own successful companies or work for well paying jobs at large companies who as a rule do not speak Swedish at all. However, they are the exception due to having a skillset or capital base that allows them the luxury of doing just that. There are always going to be those people who want to live life by their own rules and as long as it works for them and does not harm the society...well that is freedom in my opinion and last I checked Sweden was a free country.

[cogito]

Replace the word "Sweden" in the title with the name of pretty much any other country on the planet and you've got the same tale...

The Pavlovian response of the Swedentologist's dogma: "It's the same everywhere."

No, it's not.