(edit title) I regret moving to Sweden Biggest mistake I've ever made Options

[axiom]

+1

It is not the same everywhere, some countries have a longer history of migration and multi-culturalism which is what in reality allows people to more readily integrate.

This reminds me of conversations I occasionally have with the father-in-law, he once relayed to me, looking quite puzzled about it, the tale of the guy, I think he was Indian, who lived in Sweden for 12yrs and though he was a qualified engineer only found jobs as a cab driver. He eventually got tired of trying and got a job with an engineering company in the UK and moved.

Unfortunately, this is not unique to Sweden and you can find the same thing happening in the UK if you are unlucky.

[Bender B Rodriquez]

Of course there is racism, it exists everywhere. But it`s my opinion that it isn`t as widespread as the OP or Garry Jones is trying to make it out. I think the reasons ... (show full quote)

Of course there is racism, it exists everywhere. But it`s my opinion that it isn`t as widespread as the OP or Garry Jones is trying to make it out. I think the reasons you have given make sense and I also have some of my own. Some that SOIS.COM already alluded to. ... (hide full quote)

Racism is not very prevalent but xenophobia is in all Nordic countries.

If you have have very specific skills that are in high demand it may be easy to land a job as an immigrant, but if you have to compete with locals it is difficult. Employers often consider "blending in with the team" to be more important than actual skills.

[axiom]

Racism - Xenophobia: to the person on the receiving end does it make much difference?

[djmarko]

been here couple of years in Sweden, originally from London, unskilled jobs, you better learn swedish, swedes are quite good at speaking english so basically does not make anyone from the UK or US special, even when you do learn Swedish, then they need job experience!!! now if you have a special skill set like most IT jobs, then its far easier to get hired, most of the IT consultants i know from the Uk were headhunted, that was surely my case as well, been here for 5 years, already on my 2nd role and my Swedish is fairly basic!!!

[Bender B Rodriquez]

Racism - Xenophobia: to the person on the receiving end does it make much difference?

It depends. Racism judges you by your skin while xenophobia does not. In some instances it is different, in others not.

[VargasGray]

Go home. No, actually - go home... just go home. It's easier to leave and find happiness somewhere else if it's so hard here in cold Sweden. We're a cold and a very conformist people and because of that we will be perceived as racists or whatever to many foreigners. We have our reasons, historic, social or certain psychological ones, behind our behaviours and your opinion matter close to nothing in regards to this. But that will not excuse us and our behaviour. What you can try is to speak with the Swedish population in a more direct manner about this and you'll might learn something and so can they.

A Swede wishes to be kind and polite towards foreigners but we're so incredible bad at communicating with foreigners. and so incredible afraid to lose face. that we more then often will try to interact with foreigners on a very short basis. Also when we're interacting with a foreigner we might quite often not understand their body language, what they mean or whatever and that will make us uncomfortable. Ever heard of the Japanese and their ways of socialization - it's an indication of how bad it is sometimes in Sweden.

Further. If you did ANY research about this little 'phenomenon' why Swedes also seems to be racist towards foreigners you would understand that we're sick of our politicians not understanding the issue. Can you guess what's the issue? I'll give it: we're sick of taking in immigrants and dumping them in suburbs, not helping them nor demanding anything from them. Now our immigration policies are close to this: "welcome to Sweden. Here's your flat and welfare payments. We will not ask anything of you". Understand? It's so inhuman to welcome so many peoples and then act as they don't exists, that they will bring their own set of problems to our society and that the population will react to their presence.

Nowadays politicians just dumps immigrants in communities without putting in place any programs to address issues like language, education, jobs or cultural awareness about the nation they're moving to. We're so fucking cowardly that we do not even dare to put some pressure on immigrants because we're afraid of being called racists. Or when a immigrant actually behave like a idiot, or whatever, we're afraid to do anything about it because all too often one will hear the R-word being thrown against you. I've been in that situation quite a lot because I refused to do something they just demanded from me - and I don't refuse peoples without a second thought, or a third one even.

Further I want to point out that many, many Swedes do take and accept low wage jobs. We even travel to Norway to cut bananas for Christ sake! I took myself many low wage jobs and still don't say no if it will keep me going and give me time to educated myself on my spare time. This goes for many of my friends and family friends. They will take a job even if they do carry a university education under their belts; as for my friend who happens to be a member of Mensa, very educated, but works for the postal service in a low wage job. There should not be any difference for immigrants or should it?

It's sad to hear that you seemingly don't get a job or have a tough time being employed. And as some peoples pointed out: in Sweden we do have these labour laws that, accordingly to the myth, makes it hard to sack peoples if they're unfit for the work. Perhaps that's the reason why you do not have it easy finding a job? Further the market isn't any different from other nations, it will discriminate against you for whatever reasons there might be. Just because it's easier to find work in, lets say, USA doesn't make it less discriminating - isn't the low wages earners in USA mostly blacks or Mexican etc. etc.? I'm not trying to pick a fight, or being racist myself, I just want to point that little fact about that labour market.

I got to stop now... because I'm ranting. I got a bit pissed at how one sided this complaining is regarding to Swedes and our society. I mean how hard is it to understand the situation from a broader view then "me me me me"?

[skogsbo]

I got to stop now... because I'm ranting. I got a bit pissed at how one sided this complaining is regarding to Swedes and our society. I mean how hard is it to understand ... (show full quote)

I got to stop now... because I'm ranting. I got a bit pissed at how one sided this complaining is regarding to Swedes and our society. I mean how hard is it to understand the situation from a broader view then "me me me me"? ... (hide full quote)

you are not Swedish are you? UK?

[Valdemaratterdag]

It depends. Racism judges you by your skin while xenophobia does not. In some instances it is different, in others not.

I had a couple of kids over from the neighborhood yesterday, Swedish, and as white, blue-eyed and blond-haired as you've ever seen. We were taking turns selecting songs from Youtube on my computer, just for fun, and I selected this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk9MSeE1l80

The ten-year-old boy sitting on my lap said almost instantly: "Stäng av den jävla blåbärs skiten." Mildly shocked, I looked at his almost angelic little face. It was twisted in anger, and he muttered something about "neger musik."

Neither he, nor his sister thought Loreen should have won Melodifestivalen, though they liked the song.

Being blond, blue-eyed, white, with a Swedish first and last name, and being fluent in Swedish, I see first hand the racism in Sweden. Swedes are relaxed around me, and forget very quickly that I am as foreign as any "blåbär" that they meet on the street. This allows many of them to show me their true colors. It is quite common for me to hear "neger" and "jävla utlänning" when discussing immigration to Sweden. In my experience, extra animosity is reserved for "Flyktingar", especially when a Swede has had a few drinks.

[gplusa]

I had a bit of a stand up with one of the kommun housing managers a couple of years back. There was a meeting between the kommun housing department and a large group of asylum visa immigrants who rented apartments from the kommun. Probably about 200 or so at the meeting. The kommun had called the meeting to address behavioural issues that were of a concern to them. The spokespeople for the residents (and they were very well organised) countered that the kommun were contributing to the problem by placing them all in the same apartment blocks. This was resulting in cututral problems, dating centuries back, continuing and was hindering their attempts to integrate fully into Swedish society. Although I was merely an interested spectator at the meeting, I thought there were some valid points made by both parties. After the meeting I approached the manager and asked if it were not possible to place one or two immigrant families into "Swedish only" apartment buildings. To help break the cycle, to help the families integrate better and learn about Swedish living, and to help the Swedish residents gain a better understanding of these new people with their different ways. The answer I received was him was that "If we move one immigrant family in, 5 Swedish familes will move out". When I challenged him on that data he admitted that he had no evidence to support it, but just "knew" that was what would happen. I came away in the belief that the problem was not at the top government level, nor at the bottom population level, but the process was being hindered in the middle by people who really shouldn't be in the position they are in. Again, I can draw direct parallels with what I've seen in other countries (despite the howls of outrage and denial). The people above and below are quite happy, it's those controlling the middle who are placing unwarranted barriers and stalling the process.

[skogsbo]

I came away in the belief that the problem was not at the top government level, nor at the bottom population level, but the process was being hindered in the middle by people ... (show full quote)

I came away in the belief that the problem was not at the top government level, nor at the bottom population level, but the process was being hindered in the middle by people who really shouldn't be in the position they are in. Again, I can draw direct parallels with what I've seen in other countries (despite the howls of outrage and denial). The people above and below are quite happy, it's those controlling the middle who are placing unwarranted barriers and stalling the process. ... (hide full quote)

I agree, as I just cited on the SD poll thread, Sweden doesn't have an immigration problem, it has an intergration one. Partly because those in positions of power that can enhance intergration won't mention that is a problem in the first place, for fear of being labelled. This cause them to continue as before, making the intergration problem even worse.

[i know nothing]

I sympathise entirely and understand what you mean, I am white, 50, I have lived here for 24 years and my work experience counted for nothing in Sweden.I was a young computer ... (show full quote)

I sympathise entirely and understand what you mean, I am white, 50, I have lived here for 24 years and my work experience counted for nothing in Sweden.

I was a young computer professional in the 1980's. By the mid-eighties I was on £1000 a week before tax. The Swedish Embassy told me, in March 1988 that I would not need to learn Swedish because the computer language was English. They told me I would be able to walk into any computer job.

Wrong!

Because I had no qualifications I was completely out of synch with the Swedish systsem. In the UK I had started as a trainee straight from school and received my training on the job in live situations rather than a classroom. This gave me the best training as I also learnt from a very young age about work ethics. During the 80's the company employed computer graduates (mostly unavailable in the 70's). They were as a bunch totally useless. They had the same skills in theory but had not had to work hard for a living from the age of 16. There are some things you just can not learn in school. If I had been changing jobs in England I would have been more qualified because of my experience than people that had learnt the same knowledge in school.

Not so in Sweden. Every company I wrote to wanted my formal qualifications. The snobbery around this is widespread and generally accepted by the Swedes who have been a passive nation of sheep never wanting to rock the boat or question the state norms for nigh on 100 years.

One unconnected example. Your local library. They will have qualified librarians and library assistants. The qualified ones earn 5000-10000 crowns more a month. They do basically the same job, how hard can it be to say "your book is late, that'll be a 50 crown fine". The assistants will have worked in the job longer and generally be as able to help you as any of the qualified ones. However the assistants accept their lower salary with glee as they have not been to "library university". Having worked behind the scenes in a "culture house" as a computer technician in Sweden were they housed the library I saw this at first hand. I also witnessed the "sending to Coventry" of a lady who also worked there in another department. For instance, her predecessor who was very popular, always received help. When the monthly 1000 invitations to art shows were to be sent out the entire library staff used to help out at coffee break with the envelope packing. The new lady never got any help. They did not take to her because she had been to finishing school in France and came from a posh area in Stockholm. It ended up her and two others being sick for a few months (due to stress) so a local politician proposed they would take away her job and create a new job title for someone else to do the same work. When I pressed him at staff meeting it transpired the new job would be given to him himself, the local politician. However, it was said this could only be implemented if 100% of the staff were behind it. I spoke out and said no at the meeting. Job done? No, he then says, if we can't get a 100% we will take a majority decision and then said "Do we really need a computer technician anyway?". I understood the threat. Nobody else stood up and his plans were implemented, with him as a new boss. 2 months later he outsourced the computer work and I was made redundant.

So, rewind to when I first moved here in 88. My first job: Cleaning trains. Wiping up sick and excreta from train floors on a daily basis. Twice cutting myself on drug syringes and having to take HIV tests. A long way from my £1000 a week in The City. And the Swedish companies who refused to give me a job suffered from a work-force without my energy and skills.

Your problem is harder because you are black. Swedes are, in general, very racist. They have a allowed a Nazi Party to take office in Government. Under the same freedom of speech banner that allowed Hitler to rise to power they permit this party to spew out their garbage and hate speech.

As I grew up in South London, Herne Hill, Brixton in the 60's I never saw black people as any different to whites. At school some kids were short, some were tall, some were girls, some were boys, some were white, some were black. London being the perfect multi-racial city it is today is a show-case of integration for the world.

In Sweden it is still a very different kettle of fish. I never understood the meanings of the word immigrant until I moved here. A Swede, in general, will automatically presume that every one with a yellow, black or brown skin colour is an immigrant.

They spread rumours that everyone believes. Worryingly most of the racists are closet racists who voice their hate in small circles of friends. Of course this will get in your way.

However, its not all that black. If you live in a major city you will be more accepted. What you need to do now is get yourself a formal education. Take 3 years out of your life, apply for the student grants, and get a qualification in what ever line of work you would like to work in. Because, strangely enough the Swedes with qualifications tend to be less racist than factory floor workers who left school at 16-19.

If you have a certificate of education in a field were there are job vacancies you will be able to find a good job earning 35000-45000 a month - in three years time. Don't see three years as a long time. I did, 24 years ago and I still regret it today. If I had taken those three years the following 21 would have been a whole lot easier.

Sweden is a good place to live. I hope you stick it out. If you are not prepared to take those three years now move back to the UK. ... (hide full quote)

Load of thanks for this comment. Everything you wrote sounded like deja vu to me. Your advice on study is exactly what i decided for myself after experiencing the harsh reality of being an immigrant in Sweden. Especially as am black.
I greatly admire the swedish institutions but the story is different when you are a foreigner.
They will talk to you like they really care but they won't provide any help. My experience was with arbetsförmedlingen and VHS. Had to take allover gymnasietutbildning despite my possession of an A level certificate and the fact that i had studied one year in the university. Even when i started studying the moment i asked the student counselors on advice for choice of proffession i got no reply.
I have decided to stop depending on anybody i'll fight my way through and when i've acquired the knowledge they need they'll come after me.
TS. Don't give up. Do like Garry said. Get enrolled in a school it's free and you'll be getting some allowance. Study your way through the system. Best of luck.

[rtharper]

I agree, as I just cited on the SD poll thread, Sweden doesn't have an immigration problem, it has an intergration one. Partly because those in positions of power that can ... (show full quote)

I agree, as I just cited on the SD poll thread, Sweden doesn't have an immigration problem, it has an intergration one. Partly because those in positions of power that can enhance intergration won't mention that is a problem in the first place, for fear of being labelled. This cause them to continue as before, making the intergration problem even worse. ... (hide full quote)

So true. So so so true. I think it's important to admit that integration is a difficult problem, and that it is hard to get right. Sweden has not got it right, yet, and I think one can admit that without being a racist/xenophobe/etc. The appalling thing, as you say, is that only SD are willing to even engage on this matter. I think the only reason they got any votes is that they are the only party that will TALK about, and when a voter thinks, "Hrm, I have some concerns about immigration/integration, and no one else seems to care", they have no one else to turn to. It would be nice to see the more mainstream parties start to realise there is a problem and discuss how to fix it (and tell SD to STFU in the process)!

[delfinita]

I have emigrated twice in my life. once as a child and now as an adult. I have lived an average of 1 year in 3 different continents, each.

So yes, it is the same everywhere to some excent.

Good luck.

[NyDag]

wow so you've been here 3 years and can't speak Swedish ... well as a native Swede I think that is disgraceful. Furthermore ... why do you seem so surprised that jobs in Sweden require Swedish? Jobs in England require good English skills and jobs in China require good Chinese. Don't paint my whole country with the same brush because of 1 bad experience.

[leojames]

Please stay in Sweden.
The UK is already packed to the rafters with moaning bores.