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Another citizenship questions

Requirements for work permit duration

animesh
post 29.Jul.2012, 12:55 PM
Post #1
Joined: 27.Apr.2008

Hello,
I know there have been many discussions about this but i have'nt read this issue so far.
I came here on Work permit for an Indian company in 2007.
And applied for extension almost every year.
Then changed my jobs to a swedish company and applied for extension, and this time separately asked them via email for PUT.
Received my PUT in 2011 after completing 4 years.
Now will be completing my 5 years and though of applying for Swedish citizenship.
Asked migrationsverket via email if i fulfill requirements and a negative reply was received with below.
Has anyone experienced this before?
Should i still apply for citizenship and ask them for consideration as i have a permanent job in sweden=?

My question:
Hi,
> > I have been living in sweden on a work permit since 10 October
> 2007.
> > Can i apply for citizenship on 11th October 2012.?
> > I have been working for these last 5 years and paying taxes.
> > Can you please check my previous visa status' and advise if this
> kind of visa is applicable for
> > citizenship duration requirements?

"
he Migration Board can grant you swedish citizenship after five
> years from that day you applied for permanent recidence in
> Sweden. That meens that you can apply 2016-07-31 for swedish
> citizenship.
>
If you have a work or study permit that is time limited, that time do not count when you apply for citizenship. A time limited work or study permit is not ground for settlement, that is why you can not count that time.
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gumbi
post 29.Jul.2012, 01:31 PM
Post #2
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 3.Jan.2007

it totally depends on the type of visa you had during the last four years.

according to migrationsverket website !

Om du hade permanent uppehållstillstånd (PUT) eller uppehållstillstånd för bosättning (UT) redan när du reste in i Sverige, får du räkna tiden från den dag du kom hit. Annars räknas tiden från den dag du lämnade in din ansökan om uppehållstillstånd och fick ja. Om du först fick nej och sedan lämnade in en ny ansökan, räknas tiden från den dag du fick ja.

so have a look at the decision letter you received from mv, for each of your extensions and if it states that the permit was granted for bosättning then you are good to go ! otherwise , in my opinion, you have to wait .
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Localer
post 29.Jul.2012, 01:42 PM
Post #3
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 27.Oct.2006

you can apply after 5 years you had the PUT
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axiom
post 29.Jul.2012, 01:44 PM
Post #4
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 24.May.2011

If you look around, a few other people have emailed MSVT with the same reply.

Work, study and research permits do not count towards residence requirements for citizenship, reasoning being that a work permit is not granted for settlement, it is granted for working. After four years you receive a permit for settlement which then counts towards citizenship.

So someone with a workpermit, would need to reside in Sweden for 9years before being able to acquire citizenship
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animesh
post 29.Jul.2012, 07:26 PM
Post #5
Joined: 27.Apr.2008

One more thing.
Is PUT any different from long term EU residence?
http://www.migrationsverket.se/info/222_en.html

I got my PUT in 4 years. but this one requires 5 years of stay ?
SHould i apply for this long term EU resident after completing my 5 years?

THanks
Animesh RAjurkar
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axiom
post 30.Jul.2012, 08:55 AM
Post #6
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 24.May.2011

The rules for Long Term Residence is very similar to those for Citizenship from my understanding of the rules, you would still be required to wait 9yrs. If you read the Swedish pages instead (which I assume you can after 5yrs) then the rules are very similar to citizenship as far as the residency and permit requirements are concerned.

Perhaps someone on here has done it and experienced otherwise?
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wondering
post 30.Jul.2012, 09:40 AM
Post #7
Joined: 3.Oct.2011

By gaining the Swedish citizenship I think that you automatically get this.

So I see no need to apply separately for this .

I hope that this is correct.
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axiom
post 30.Jul.2012, 09:52 AM
Post #8
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 24.May.2011

Long Term Residence is a little different, it is basically a type of residence permit issued to people with a PUT but not citizenship that allows them to move around in the Schenghen space for purposes of living and working long term without the need for a work permit, etc.

It is, i guess, of particular interest to people who are from countries that do now allow dual citizenship, etc
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wondering
post 30.Jul.2012, 09:54 AM
Post #9
Joined: 3.Oct.2011

The problem and this is a bit frustrating is that the need for 9 years is too long in my opinion.

I have applied for my work permit last year and no part in the application form on the internet did it say that I should apply for residence for the purpose of settlement.

So again when I apply for extension next year there is no place to say that I wish to settle in Sweden. This will of course make the whole process longer.

What confuses me is the time limited work permit . I mean even if you have a permanent job, like I do, then you still only get a work permit for a maximum of two years at a time.

Then they say that this does not apply for settlement ! But where in the form does it say that this application is for settlement !?!

It is quite a bit confusing ! angry.gif
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axiom
post 30.Jul.2012, 10:13 AM
Post #10
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 24.May.2011

You can't apply for a permit for settlement as far as it concerns work permit, study permit, etc.

The idea is that when you moved to Sweden, your reason was not to settle, but it was to work, this contrasts to someone with a sambo, who moves here with the reason to settle and live with her/his sambo.

Same applies for a student, you move here to study not to settle.

After a period of time on a work permit, you are then permitted to settle in Sweden by being given a PUT. My view is that the "settlement" period should at least count from the second permit is granted, i.e. after the first two years since the permit given then is to take up a job with any company anywhere in Sweden effectively a view to settlement and since after that period of time a PUT is generally automatically granted. i.e. when you give a person the second permit, the next time you see his application you will normally be granting him a PUT.

The same does not apply in the initial case.
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Yorkshireman
post 30.Jul.2012, 10:35 AM
Post #11
Joined: 22.Nov.2011

QUOTE (wondering @ 30.Jul.2012, 08:54 AM) *
The problem and this is a bit frustrating is that the need for 9 years is too long in my opinion.

In some EU countries it is actually 10 years, count yourself lucky! (sorry! a cynical monday wink.gif )
QUOTE (wondering @ 30.Jul.2012, 08:54 AM) *
I have applied for my work permit last year and no part in the application form on the internet did it say that I should apply for residence for the purpose of settlement.

Because it is a work permit, not a settlement permit, however you get the right to live in Sweden whilst you work.
QUOTE (wondering @ 30.Jul.2012, 08:54 AM) *
So again when I apply for extension next year there is no place to say that I wish to settle in Sweden. This will of course make the whole process longer.

Because You are applying for a work permit ...ie. You intend to work. The rules state clearly ... you may be granted a PUT, it is at the discretion of Migrationsverket. What they look at is the intention, not the application. ie. The longer You continue to work here, the more likely it is that your intention is to settle.
QUOTE (wondering @ 30.Jul.2012, 08:54 AM) *
What confuses me is the time limited work permit . I mean even if you have a permanent job, like I do, then you still only get a work permit for a maximum of two years at a time.

You may quit your job, lose your job, the company may go bancrupt etc, ... anything can happen! You do not, and they do not kow 100% certain you will continue with a job.
QUOTE (wondering @ 30.Jul.2012, 08:54 AM) *
Then they say that this does not apply for settlement ! But where in the form does it say that this application is for settlement !?!

Because it is a work permit!... and they (like all others) are temporary, apart from those little bits I mentioned above ... permits in general, including even tourist ones, are not supposed to be issued if there is risk that when the expiration date expires, you are not going to return to your home country. (hence the reason why the syrians kids that were supposed to play in the Gothia cup could not come, risk was they would not go home)
PUTs however do not expire, as such.
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rtharper
post 30.Jul.2012, 11:02 AM
Post #12
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 2.Feb.2011

QUOTE (Yorkshireman @ 30.Jul.2012, 10:35 AM) *
In some EU countries it is actually 10 years, count yourself lucky! (sorry! a cynical monday wink.gif )

Ah yes, what an argument. "It could be worse, so stop whining?" Nice. Why it seems particularly unfair is that the "advertised" time, if you will, is 5 years. The path to citizenship in Sweden is "meant" to take five years. I can't think of any countries, other than the US, that don't count work permit time for residence. Sweden is lauded for its positive migration policies and openness, but it is deceptively xenophobic (policy-wise) about one of the most desirable class of migrants: people who come here with a job already in hand, whose ability to stay is CONTINGENT on that job, and whose working conditions have been vetted before they were allowed to come. I don't think it's so unreasonable to want to be considered a desirable immigrant whose residence time is counted just the same as other migrants, especially when you have a permanent job in hand, and, if you are still here after 5 years, have held down jobs, paid tax, etc. You've obviously done okay for yourself in Swedish socieity.

It is maddening to see the law and realise that 5 years does not mean 5 years. Furthermore, having read the laws, I don't see where this principle derives from (it's not in the Utlänninglag). It's slightly deceptive. I know that it is spelled out in black and white in the right places, but this distinction between "citizenship time" and "temporary time even though you came with a permanent job" time is bizarre and totally in contrast with immigration norms in Europe.

QUOTE
You may quit your job, lose your job, the company may go bankrupt etc, ... anything can happen! You do not, and they do not kow 100% certain you will continue with a job.

They don't know this when you have permanent residence, either... And yet they decide when to grant it to you eventually, but still decide that your work permit time doesn't "count"? If any of the above things had happened, you are forced to go home, unless you can find more demand for your work.
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skogsbo
post 30.Jul.2012, 11:10 AM
Post #13
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

QUOTE (rtharper @ 30.Jul.2012, 11:02 AM) *
Ah yes, what an argument. "It could be worse, so stop whining?"

seems fair to me. 5yrs from when you were a permanent resident, not temporary from studies etc. seem fairly clear?
Beside, why give up your home citizenship, if you are allowed to remain and work in Sweden either way? Motives?

Perhaps the system needs to be defined a bit more clearly, but the rules are obtainable long before anyone decides to come here in the first place. Some other EU nations probably don't need such defined rules or long time scales, as you won't see many people rushing to be citzens of the some of the more debt ridden or less popular nations etc..
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wondering
post 30.Jul.2012, 11:27 AM
Post #14
Joined: 3.Oct.2011

QUOTE (rtharper @ 30.Jul.2012, 10:02 AM) *
It is maddening to see the law and realise that 5 years does not mean 5 years.


Agreed !

When you have a permanent job then you can only get a work visa for a maximum period of two years. Then they say that it does not count .

This is where it is so self-contradictory. Yes it is a permanent job so give him a longer period of visa or count it.
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Yorkshireman
post 30.Jul.2012, 11:51 AM
Post #15
Joined: 22.Nov.2011

QUOTE (wondering @ 30.Jul.2012, 10:27 AM) *
When you have a permanent job then you can only get a work visa for a maximum period of two years. Then they say that it does not count . This is where it is so self-contradic ... (show full quote)


Swedish employment law has several employment types in law, and the one you refer to is tillsvidare which basically means "until further notice", it could be terminated at any time.

Think of the temporary work permit time as check-points, when it is coming for renewal.

The permit in itself is temporary by nature, and the intention is coming to Sweden for work. If You had applied for the position, and written your own note that You were coming for settlement ... it would be highly likely they would refuse the work permit!

There is no law that allows for immigration just to settle, there always has to be a reason. In fact, find any European country that allows someone to come and settle?

It's about intention ... 4 years of work permit shows Migrationsverket a clear intention to stay in Sweden, then to become a Swedish citizen, they require a further 5 years living in Sweden, you don't even have to work ... just show the intention is to stay.

Nothing unfair in that. One could question the motivation behind wanting to change nationalities so quickly!

Just for reference, here are the general years required in some other EU countries, though I am sure they also have a few slightly hidden get-out-of-jail-it-aint-that-easy quirks:

Sweden is not that different from other EU countries:
Belgium 3 yrs
Bulgaria 5 yrs
Cyprus 5 yrs
Czech Rep. 5 yrs with permanent residency permit
Denmark 9 yrs with permanent residency permit
Estonia 8 yrs
France 5 yrs
Germany 8 yrs, (7 if you do the integration course)
Luxemburg 7 yrs
Portugal 10 yrs
Rumania 8 yrs (4 yrs for EU citizens)
Spain 10 yrs
Sweden 5 yrs with permanent residency permit
UK 5 yrs
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