(edit title) Another citizenship questions Requirements for work permit duration Options

[dave.smith]

Wow... 9 years!

The question is, why did you not just apply for the sambo visa in the first place? If you had have done that your wait would be over.

To skogsbo: there needn't be ulterior motives. I am applying purely to get the passport. The new German-centric way of applying for a British passport annoys me, so I am not going to renew it, and rather get a Swedish one.

[rtharper]

Swedish employment law has several employment types in law, and the one you refer to is tillsvidare which basically means "until further notice", it could be terminated at any time.

I speak Swedish, I don't need condescending translations of my work contract. Furthermore, I know how employment works.

Think of the temporary work permit time as check-points, when it is coming for renewal.The permit in itself is temporary by nature, and the intention is coming to Sweden for w ... (show full quote)

Think of the temporary work permit time as check-points, when it is coming for renewal.

The permit in itself is temporary by nature, and the intention is coming to Sweden for work. If You had applied for the position, and written your own note that You were coming for settlement ... it would be highly likely they would refuse the work permit!

There is no law that allows for immigration just to settle, there always has to be a reason. In fact, find any European country that allows someone to come and settle?

It's about intention ... 4 years of work permit shows Migrationsverket a clear intention to stay in Sweden, then to become a Swedish citizen, they require a further 5 years living in Sweden, you don't even have to work ... just show the intention is to stay. ... (hide full quote)

WORK is often considered an acceptable reason. This notion of work permits as distinct other permits with respect to working toward citizenship is unusual if you are coming for, in theory, a permanent position. I'm not saying you get permanent residence, but the only point is that you are allowed to count that time as part of your settlement time. And lots of countries do that. The UK and Iceland are the countries I am most familiar with, and they allow you to do this. It's not unusual.

Having a way "think of" the law is not a problem. I get the perspective. I am calling it unfair, and I am citing the fact that general work permits are counted in other countries, despite usually requiring renewal. I have the mental faculties to see what they're perspective is, I don't require another explanation. I have the same set of facts as you do, and I disagree, as do many people here.

Nothing unfair in that. One could question the motivation behind wanting to change nationalities so quickly!

Only if you're an xenophobic asshat. That is exactly the kind of harmful attitude that is useful in justifying xenophobia. "Those damn foreigners, what do they want with us?! Clearly they're up to no good" I thought you were a non-native yourself. Why are you so keen to slam the door shut on people behind you? I have said this to you in other threads, but you seem to refuse to believe that there is security and value behind having citizenship where you live. Maybe it's not important to you because you have had the luxury of treaty rights. Not everyone does.

What is so nefarious about that? Ah yes, I forgot about that five year scam that goes: Step 1. Get citizenship, Step 2. ????? Step 3. Profit!

Just for reference, here are the general years required in some other EU countries, though I am sure they also have a few slightly hidden get-out-of-jail-it-aint-that-easy qui ... (show full quote)

Just for reference, here are the general years required in some other EU countries, though I am sure they also have a few slightly hidden get-out-of-jail-it-aint-that-easy quirks:

Sweden is not that different from other EU countries:
Belgium 3 yrs
Bulgaria 5 yrs
Cyprus 5 yrs
Czech Rep. 5 yrs with permanent residency permit
Denmark 9 yrs with permanent residency permit
Estonia 8 yrs
France 5 yrs
Germany 8 yrs, (7 if you do the integration course)
Luxemburg 7 yrs
Portugal 10 yrs
Rumania 8 yrs (4 yrs for EU citizens)
Spain 10 yrs
Sweden 5 yrs with permanent residency permit
UK 5 yrs ... (hide full quote)

I can google too, thanks.

To make this a fair comparison, it should be that Swedish says "9 years" in this case, that's the point. We're talking about citizenship times for workers, and the fact that they deviate drastically from that for other migrants. I consider 9 years long, but the unfairness comes in, in my opinion, because not counting work permit time introduces a massive gap between workers and other immigrants. You can feel free to disagree, but don't suggest, please, that I don't "get it". I do. Their number is totally unreasonable, although it is clearly at the upper end of the spectrum.0000 For many of those countries, those times include time spent on a work permit, and that's my point. The UK and Sweden do not have the same time line for citizenship for a worker. In the UK, the pathway is 5 years to IDLR + 1 year to citizenship (IDLR being the same as permanent residence). This is rather different from 9 years in Sweden.

[mångk]

To make this a fair comparison, it should be that Swedish says "9 years" in this case, that's the point. We're talking about citizenship times for workers, a ... (show full quote)

To make this a fair comparison, it should be that Swedish says "9 years" in this case, that's the point. We're talking about citizenship times for workers, and the fact that they deviate drastically from that for other migrants... This is rather different from 9 years in Sweden. ... (hide full quote)

The point is that it is not 9 years it is 5 years if you meet the 'villkor'.

There is a specific fundament that is the basis of Swedish immigration. Meet the 'villkor' and it is 5 years!

[axiom]

Ah yes, what an argument. "It could be worse, so stop whining?" Nice. Why it seems particularly unfair is that the "advertised" time, if you will, is 5 yea ... (show full quote)

Ah yes, what an argument. "It could be worse, so stop whining?" Nice. Why it seems particularly unfair is that the "advertised" time, if you will, is 5 years. The path to citizenship in Sweden is "meant" to take five years. I can't think of any countries, other than the US, that don't count work permit time for residence. Sweden is lauded for its positive migration policies and openness, but it is deceptively xenophobic (policy-wise) about one of the most desirable class of migrants: people who come here with a job already in hand, whose ability to stay is CONTINGENT on that job, and whose working conditions have been vetted before they were allowed to come. I don't think it's so unreasonable to want to be considered a desirable immigrant whose residence time is counted just the same as other migrants, especially when you have a permanent job in hand, and, if you are still here after 5 years, have held down jobs, paid tax, etc. You've obviously done okay for yourself in Swedish socieity.

It is maddening to see the law and realise that 5 years does not mean 5 years. Furthermore, having read the laws, I don't see where this principle derives from (it's not in the Utlänninglag). It's slightly deceptive. I know that it is spelled out in black and white in the right places, but this distinction between "citizenship time" and "temporary time even though you came with a permanent job" time is bizarre and totally in contrast with immigration norms in Europe.

They don't know this when you have permanent residence, either... And yet they decide when to grant it to you eventually, but still decide that your work permit time doesn't "count"? If any of the above things had happened, you are forced to go home, unless you can find more demand for your work. ... (hide full quote)

I would disagree that Swedish migration rules are any more xenophobic than other countries in Europe.

Sweden probably has the most relaxed work permit rules to begin with.

Some countries don't even recognise a sambo relationship.

A person could migrate to Sweden for no other reason than they have a child in Sweden

Now I agree that the citizenship rules are relatively strict in comparison, but it is significantly easier to get a foot in the door, so to speak and ultimately gain citizenship, this is a deal I would take anyday.

[rtharper]

I would disagree that Swedish migration rules are any more xenophobic than other countries in Europe.

I don't think they are categorically xenophobic, I just thought that Yorkshireman's comment, in this case, was. I don't really see the rationale behind Sweden's decision, but I am pretty sure its not the some one that he just espoused.

Now I agree that the citizenship rules are relatively strict in comparison, but it is significantly easier to get a foot in the door, so to speak and ultimately gain citizenship, this is a deal I would take anyday.

Completely agree. And my main issue with the citizenship rule is this discrepancy rather than the wait time in total. I was extremely happy with the work permit process. The paperwork has been a fraction of what it was in the UK and the experience was, on the whole, much more pleasant. I do think the wait is rather long, but my objection is that they claim to be so open about wanting people to integrate (and make no mistake, citizenship is an important element), but in reality they are not wrt a rather significant group of people by creating such a yawning gap in the citizenship policies.

[wondering]

Sweden probably has the most relaxed work permit rules to begin with.. .

I agree with you on this for some points . There are no restrictions on the number of hours that a student works and this is perhaps also a great plus point.

And I for one cannot really comment on xenophobia.

But what I can comment on is that 9 years to be a citizen is a long time .

Especially when you as a person have personally made choices to integrate and are planning and fully committed to staying here.

So after having been paying taxes for 9 years then they accept you .

This just seems to be way too long and too long of a commitment time to be acceptable.

[mångk]

I do think the wait is rather long, but my objection is that they claim to be so open about wanting people to integrate (and make no mistake, citizenship is an important eleme ... (show full quote)

I do think the wait is rather long, but my objection is that they claim to be so open about wanting people to integrate (and make no mistake, citizenship is an important element), but in reality they are not wrt a rather significant group of people by creating such a yawning gap in the citizenship policies. ... (hide full quote)

Which yawning gap?

Are you sure that it is actually there and not an illusion?

[Yorkshireman]

So after having been paying taxes for 9 years then they accept you . . This just seems to be way too long and too long of a commitment time to be acceptable.

You could after receiving the PUT be claiming social benefits for 5 years, and you are accepted.

It is about intention to stay, commitment to Sweden, showing over the years You behave yourself, don't have debts when you apply etc...

There is not much difference between a PUT and Citizenship, the biggest difference is that only citizens can vote in the Government elections. A PUT can be withdrawn if you stay an extended period away from Sweden, but it is just to reapply to get it back, that's all.

[axiom]

I take a contrary point, citizenship should be a reward for integration, not part of it initially.

That's the way it works in most countries.

[wondering]

Of course, that is why most countries ask that you pass language tests and so on. I do not dispute that fact.

[Localer]

if you think Sweden immigration rules for citizenship is strict, try Denmark.

[rtharper]

I take a contrary point, citizenship should be a reward for integration, not part of it initially.. That's the way it works in most countries.

Indeed, it "finalises" integration, in my opinion, and gives people something to work toward. I say it is important because I think it is important to realise that people can feel like they are not completely integrated without it, but not that it initiates it.

I would simply argue that 5 years is not a less reasonable amount of time simply because someone came on the basis of work...

I am actually a proponent of requiring that people pass language tests to acquire citizenship.

[rtharper]

if you think Sweden immigration rules for citizenship is strict, try Denmark.

The existence of a worse example is a poor argument. And again, the issue at hand is not the overall time, it's the discrepancy.

[skogsbo]

Wow... 9 years!The question is, why did you not just apply for the sambo visa in the first place? If you had have done that your wait would be over.To skogsbo: there needn ... (show full quote)

Wow... 9 years!

The question is, why did you not just apply for the sambo visa in the first place? If you had have done that your wait would be over.

To skogsbo: there needn't be ulterior motives. I am applying purely to get the passport. The new German-centric way of applying for a British passport annoys me, so I am not going to renew it, and rather get a Swedish one. ... (hide full quote)

be sure not to close any potential UK education doors for your kids, if they or you don't have British nationality anymore? The Swedish doors will remain open for your kids through your sambo. Build, not burn bridges.

[animesh]

oops ... a lot of heated arguments here, working here and paying taxes does not mean intention to settle .. of course....
but it should have been clear from day .1 , to help us plan our future.
That is why am a little pissed..