(edit title) Spinning the Spin on Wikileaks. Lets talk about what wikileaks uncovered. Options

[Nomark]

@SOIS.COM + other wikileaks fans.

Do you think that Wikileaks would be prepared to disseminate information which is embarrassing to the leadership of Ecuador ? If not, why not ?

[frenchviking]

I am not a wikileaks fan, i never even read the information as it is worthless in my opinion since it is out of context...
However i am shocked that western governments fabricate such schemes to silence people like JA. I am ashamed of it. And then the same governments lecture China, Russia, North Korea about behaving in the very same way but more openly. How can we be credible?
In my opinion they should not even comment on things like wikileaks... They are giving wikileaks more publicity and demonstrate themselves that they have things to hide.

And to be honest, i would like to see the people who fabricated fake evidence about weapons of mass destruction in Irak be prossecuted... As well as the polititiens who used this to send soldiers to die so that theor friends can sell more weapons...
And fabricating false accusations is for sure a crime...

[Nomark]

Where is the evidence that western governments are behind JA's Swedish legal troubles ?

[SOIS.COM]

Rove Suspected In Swedish-U.S. Political Prosecution of WikiLeaks

I will be a bit for fair to Rove and the US than a fair portion of the media is being towards JA. In the media they are often using "charged" rather than alleged towards JA. Reinforce that Rove is suspected although according to Andrew Krieg he has a credible source that says the work that is being done smells of Roves signature, which reportedly has the aroma of Texas Oil, Chick-fik-a, and the scalps or former US attorneys.

To put it in context here is an article by Kristinn Hrafnsson regarding the smear campaign in the Swedish press.

[byke]

Where is the evidence that western governments are behind JA's Swedish legal troubles ?

The question is irrelevant.
Since the focus is now on that of the Swedish judicial system and its reluctancy to be held accountable for its numerous breaches.

This in itself questions the very legitimacy of the state, when such key issues are not addressed and only used as political fodder.

[Yorkshireman]

Since the focus is now on that of the Swedish judicial system and its reluctancy to be held accountable for its numerous breaches.

Itemise the breaches with regards the Assange alleged sex-crimes case?

[skogsbo]

The question is irrelevant.Since the focus is now on that of the Swedish judicial system and its reluctancy to be held accountable for its numerous breaches.This in itself que ... (show full quote)

The question is irrelevant.
Since the focus is now on that of the Swedish judicial system and its reluctancy to be held accountable for its numerous breaches.

This in itself questions the very legitimacy of the state, when such key issues are not addressed and only used as political fodder. ... (hide full quote)

i might have missed something, but their only error was in not retaining his passport?

If they had done anything else when he was in Sweden, you would probably now be typing about how they were too heavy handed etc.. ?

They made some logical errors, that a responsible adult won't turn and run from the country when accused of an offence (even when they claim they are innocent), plus that even when the highest courts in Europe rule this allegedly responsible adult has to now go to Sweden, he won't turn and run again. It proves that even the chavist scum probably have more sense of moral values and respect for the law than Assange.

[frenchviking]

I am sorry for deviating from the initial topic, but I need to answer my point of view...

Does it not sound a little strange that one of the 2 women has done some work for the CIA in the past?
And how can you have sex with someone, have him at your place for a week, and then realise that you did not actually want to have sex 1 week ago... it is very very strange...
I think there is at least as much evidence to support a case that the US is behind this whole thing, than there is to justify to question JA regarding rape accusations...

I am not a fan of conspiracy theories, and again I do not think he should have shared the data. But the whole thing is dodgy...

[skogsbo]

Does it not sound a little strange that one of the 2 women has done some work for the CIA in the past?And how can you have sex with someone, have him at your place for a week, ... (show full quote)

Does it not sound a little strange that one of the 2 women has done some work for the CIA in the past?
And how can you have sex with someone, have him at your place for a week, and then realise that you did not actually want to have sex 1 week ago... it is very very strange... ... (hide full quote)

Is there any evidence to say either have worked for CIA or is it internet spin, by Assanges buddies?

How many women are raped, attacked, molested by a friend or work mate, then dwell on it for many days before reporting it? probably a fair percentage and certainly as likely as working for the CIA! Especially if that person is your boss or you previously looked up to them.

How many males boss have tried to take advantage of junior younger female colleagues, quite a few? The drunk letching boss at the Xmas party is typical stereotype. So why would their story 'possibly' be true?

The story is probably no where near as dodgy or sordid as the media and Assange are making out. The fact that he has these 2 allegations and the fact he released secrets are in all likelihood completely unrelated, but that wouldn't fit the Assange supporters who think the whole world and everything in it is a complete conspiracy.

[frenchviking]

the 2 women acknowledged that they agreed to have sex from what I understood. That is probably why the first prosecutor (and specialists, psychologists, etc...) decided that there was no case.
Is it fair to have a feminist prosecutor re-open this case? one politically engaged?
And does the UK have nothing better to do with 65k EUR per day to watch JA? approx 25m EUR per year?

[Yorkshireman]

Isn't it even more strange that a country Ecuador, that previously refused Assange political asylum on grounds that his actions may have been criminal, ie. Wikileaks publishing, yet once after that refusal Wikileaks publishes a file from US Embassy in Ecuador that suggested that the Ecuador president knew in advance that a Police Chief he was appointing was corrupt ... suddenly grant political asylum?

Isn't it more strange that Assange ran from Sweden after being refused residency that he applied for!, to the UK where there is a negative freedom of speech in common law, and has a far better relationship with the USA, so more likely to extradite if requested... challenge in 3 courts the extradition to Sweden for sex-crimes. And once he lost that, commited another criminal offence of breaking bail, and ran like a baby to the Ecuador embassy?

If He was in fear of being extradited and felt he needed political asylum ... he could have gone straight to Ecuador in the 1st place! But He didn't ... He is using the media, supporters, wikileaks etc... as a way to get out of possibly being charged and prosecuted for sex-crimes.

Sweden has tried to create a culture where Woman can feel safe coming forward in cases of sexual abuse, this is why there are more rapes etc... reported in Sweden than most European countries ... The fear always is that the victims are attacked and painted as in the wrong ... the victims here are those 2 women.

And now you want to attack them Sick.

[skogsbo]

the 2 women acknowledged that they agreed to have sex from what I understood. That is probably why the first prosecutor (and specialists, psychologists, etc...) decided that t ... (show full quote)

the 2 women acknowledged that they agreed to have sex from what I understood. That is probably why the first prosecutor (and specialists, psychologists, etc...) decided that there was no case.
Is it fair to have a feminist prosecutor re-open this case? one politically engaged?
And does the UK have nothing better to do with 65k EUR per day to watch JA? approx 25m EUR per year? ... (hide full quote)

From what you understand? Evidence? Credible source?

If there was no evidence or case do you not think that any of the many Judges who have reviewed the extradition case through it varies levels, would have gone in Assanges and not the Swedish Prosecutions favour?

Re-opened, was the case ever officially closed? If so by whom? When? evidence? or just your presumption?

Cost, if the UK lets him go, then all the money is wasted, all the previous legal costs wasted. So if they spend more and get him, money not wasted. It's called up holding the law and the courts decision. It doesn't mean he was or is guilty, it means that they will uphold the judges decision to extradite him to allow the investigation to continue.

Compared to Olympic policing, this is still costing peanuts to up hold the law. If they don't see the job through, it means those who have the money to avoid the law can, only the poor and those without connections need go to court for alleged offences. Not a great message to the world about European justice is it?

[Hisingen]

Believe what you wish. If you want to claim you are the winner of an argument on the internet be my guest. I believe you are a troll and engaging in any conversation with you ... (show full quote)

Believe what you wish. If you want to claim you are the winner of an argument on the internet be my guest. I believe you are a troll and engaging in any conversation with you is a waste of my time. . . . . ... (hide full quote)

The pot calling the kettle black ! ! ! !

[frenchviking]

maybe it is for the best if he comes back to Sweden and they finish the investigation... we will then see if the US manage to get their hands on him... and if the court finally finds him guilty here.

But I am not sure which is best between:
- being stuck in that small embassy and having for only hope to get to Latin America knowing that you could never go back to Europe / North America / Australia...
- or going to Sweden, face trial, maybe end up in jail for a couple of years (or pay a fine), with the possibility to get the sentence reduced, etc... and then be free again for the rest of his life...

I do not believe he is only afraid of being sent to prison in Sweden for a couple of years... seems like an easier route with better hope long term than the exile route...

and coming back on the 2 potential victims, I actually think that if they have fabricated the story, then they are causing more trouble to real rape victims than many could think. It is because people abuse the system and make fake accusations that real victims are having troubles to be heard and protected...
Rape is a horrible thing. Accusing someone of rape when it is not true can be just as horrible I am afraid... to the person whose life can be ruined but also to real rape victims who will struggle to get help and will be suspected of lying too...

[Yorkshireman]

Since the focus is now on that of the Swedish judicial system and its reluctancy to be held accountable for its numerous breaches.

Wrong. That is what You and the other Assangites would like the media to focus on. However the real issue is the fact that Assange is running from the fact that in 2010 he was arrested in abstentia on suspicion of unlawful coercion, 2 counts of sexual molestation and RAPE.

For those women, who were Assangites!, I can well believe that it was noooooo easy decision to go to the police and make a report, especially when by-all-counts it is very difficult for Women in general reporting sex-crimes.

As for trashing the female prosecutor, as some of Assangites appear to be doing, claiming this is femanist motivated, re-opening of the politically charged case ... a couple of things...
1. It is only politicised because Assange and his team want to make it so, to divert from the real charges, which include RAPE.
2. The Prosecutor didn't re-open the case, it was not closed. The 2 women appealed the initial investigation, and the investigation continued ... which is when Assange decided to do a runner.
(The Prosecutor was following the legal processes)

...put it this way... If Sweden was working together with USA ... and intended to extradite Assange, they could have done it there and then, whilst he was waiting for the decision about his residency, before he left the country.

He ran, when it looked more likely that He would be charged with RAPE.