(edit title) Schools in Sweden Any tips for evaluating them? Options

[Paul Troon]

In an earlier post about moving from the US to Sweden so our son could attend school in Sweden, byke wrote:

I would still appeal to the OP to research into education for his child before committing.. As even Finland has much higher standards of education.

I am certainly concerned for our child's education. One observation I can make though is that it is difficult to generalize about educational systems. The Los Angeles Unified School District (where we live now) has some excellent schools and many more truly terrible schools.

I don't want to start a pointless discussion of generalizations, but I am curious about what to look for in Sweden when deciding on a school or school district. We have not decided where we will be living yet, it depends on where we find work, but it will likely be somewhere in south western Skåne.

My wife and I are both rank amateurs with no background in education (other than being educated at some point), so I'm not even sure what questions to ask if we took a tour of a particular public school.

I'm sure there is controversy about whether standardized test scores are a good measure of a school, but that said, how can I find this kind of information about schools in Sweden. Lacking qualitative information, quantitative is better than nothing.

If you think this is a stupid pointless incendiary question, don't blame me - byke made me do it. :-)

[byke]

I would seek advice from the website www.mumsinsweden.com

[byke]

Actually scap that idea as the site has been officially closed.

[PDX]

I am certainly concerned for our child's education. One observation I can make though is that it is difficult to generalize about educational systems. The Los Angeles Unif ... (show full quote)

I am certainly concerned for our child's education. One observation I can make though is that it is difficult to generalize about educational systems. The Los Angeles Unified School District (where we live now) has some excellent schools and many more truly terrible schools. ... (hide full quote)

Right, and this is true for most countries except the few that really put education ahead of most other matters (and this is not true for Sweden though, suprisingly, Denmark, Norway and Finland are right at the top).

So, rather than looking for statistics, just make sure that the particular school you do choose matches your expectations. Here are a few articles on what not to choose in the area of your interest (south-west Skåne):

http://www.skolinspektionen.se/sv/Om-oss/P...lan-och-skolan/
http://www.svt.se/2.22620/1.2350525/elever...osengardsskolan
http://www.svt.se/svt/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=10733&a=214547
http://www.sydsvenskan.se/malmo/resurserna...er-i-tillskott/

At times, the area does have some resemblance to LA in 1992 .

~~~PDX~~~

[JulieLou40]

Actually scap that idea as the site has been officially closed.

Not until December, it isn't. So the OP will still get excellent advice if he asks his question on there.

Lycka till, OP.

[Puffin]

I usually use Skolverkets Sirus database

You can search for all information on the school: size, teacher: child ratios

You can see how they do in national tests against other schools in thekommun/national level
http://siris.skolverket.se/apex/f?p=SIRIS:2:0::NO:::

However you should also try and do some visits - there is more to a school than statistics

If you are arriving mid-year it may be more of a case of where you can get in as popular schools may be full

[Puffin]

Also you don't say whether you are looking at Swedish schools or bilingual charter schools - there are pros and cons - but some Swedish kommuns put new arrivals into a centralised Swedish language programme for the first few months to get them up to speed in Swedish - wheras others just throw the child into a regular school

[Opalnera]

Also how old are you children, what grades have they completed in the US and can they speak Swedish?

[Paul Troon]

Also you don't say whether you are looking at Swedish schools or bilingual charter schools - there are pros and cons - but some Swedish kommuns put new arrivals into a cen ... (show full quote)

Also you don't say whether you are looking at Swedish schools or bilingual charter schools - there are pros and cons - but some Swedish kommuns put new arrivals into a centralised Swedish language programme for the first few months to get them up to speed in Swedish - wheras others just throw the child into a regular school ... (hide full quote)

Also how old are you children, what grades have they completed in the US and can they speak Swedish?

Our oldest is 4, and is fortunately fluent in both Swedish and English. I understand that in a Swedish school you can still get English language classes for dual language children, but a bilingual school would probably be the best fit as it is possible we won't be in Sweden forever. However, unlike some families here temporarily for work, it is a possibility that we'll stay.

I'll be checking out some of the sites recommended above. I wish I had thought of asking here sooner!

[Mr G]

I'd check out www.engelska.se, with many biligual school all over Sweden. Best of luck to you and your family.

[byke]

Given the situation described, the 2 biggest stumbling blocks will be.

1. Language.
Under Swedish law all schools have to teach Swedish to at least 50% (which is all fine) however the levels of English taught are on par with the national syllabus. Irrespective of the school being bi-lingual or "engleska". Now here is where it gets interesting, Swedish as a language is taught generally as a "A" language (mother tongue) and sometimes children can be taught swedish as a "B" language (second language) asylum seekers , late to Sweden etc ... These 2 labels define how hard and to what depth of education is taught based on the childs situation but are compusary. And while language subjects abroad usually cover just that, "Swedish" also covers other subjects under that term (moral, cultural, sociology etc)

However when it comes to English, it's only taught as a "B" language with no exception in the syllabus to cater for advanced languages other than Swedish. The problem this leads to is that because it's taught on par as a second language (not mother tongue) it means much of the very important structure of learning regarding things like grammar and comprehension is of a quality that is of a much lower standard to that of other countries. But again it really depends to what degree you want your child to learn this subject. If you just want them to be able to write their name down and shopping lists etc, then this will surely suffice. However if you feel that in the future they may work in a company that uses Englishas their first language, you may need to seek alternative sollutions.

Verbal and literacy.
There is a large difference between being able to speak a language and that of writing a language.
And while I am confident that most children from a very early age can achieve such verbal agility, I do think that teaching the rules of grammar and all that is associated with it can cause lots of confusion for a child at the early years, when such subjects start.

2 Age .
The next issue that a child faces is education doesn't start until 7 in Sweden which can be much later than that taught in other countries. Yes eventually they will catch up as the average child in sweden leaves school allot later. However if you were to transfer from Sweden to another country without your child reaching all their goals, you could find they will either struggle or need to go down a grade or 2 (if possible) to accommodate their needs.

Now personally having been through the bilingual schooling system I can say that I haven't been impressed whatsoever and think its much better to choose a dedicated school such as full English or full Swedish as this half / half approach seems to offer no advantage to children who already have 2 languages and only goes to benefit children who are put into such places by their parents hoping that some of this interaction will rub off and give their child a leading edge. Now, full English schools are not permitted in Sweden without a special licence and that means they will have to be a private / paying for school. And I know of very few schools in Sweden that have this special exclusion from the government. And the ones I do know of are located in Stockholm.

Absolute best advice is to ask parents of the school you are interested in.
Also check to see how involved they are in their child's education, as obviously those who are not may not have much knowledge about such.

From my own personal perspective, we have come to the conclusion that our kids need to be able to speak both languages (English and Swedish) but a greater emphasis is placed on English as a subject in terms of education that will benefit our child in the future. This Way we appease any insecurities relating to culture and but also choose what we think is the right direction for actual education.

Whatever you do, good luck.

[dave.smith]

Interesting insights, byke!

I have always been worried about the language aspect ever since I read Joemath's "host language" saga postings. Although I have no problem with Swedish education as such, I don't want our children forced into a situation where they will end up disadvantaged in this way.

My sambo is a pure Swede, however her English has improved tremendously over the last 5 years. I speak Swedish at a very high level but still prefer English for home use. What I have always planned was that we would only speak English at home and the kids could pick up Swedish at dagis / school / etc and from their grandparents on my Sambo's side. I want their primary language to be English to enable better communication with their family on my side.

Obviously if we each spoke our respective languages to the kids, they would be split 50/50 at home, but since this is Sweden, in reality things would be stacked in favour of Swedish. However, if at home we were 100% English, it may balance things out. At least that's the theory.

My sambo is agreeable and we have only been speaking to our 1 year old in English at home, (and to eachother in English obviously). He spends quite a lot of time with my sambo's parents and they speak Swedish to him. He hasn't spoken yet - just made vague noises (I hope we aren't confusing him with all of this chopping and changing).

I don't want a situation where his "host language skills" aren't good enough for regular Swedish school, but I also don't want to rely solely on "B" level English at regular school. What are your opinions on this, byke, and other knowlegable Swedologists?

[byke]

I will try and answer Daves question later.
However I would like to appolagise for all the errors in my last reply (ironic) ... But I am typing from my phone on a train right now.

[byke]

I don't want a situation where his "host language skills" aren't good enough for regular Swedish school, but I also don't want to rely solely on "B& ... (show full quote)

I don't want a situation where his "host language skills" aren't good enough for regular Swedish school, but I also don't want to rely solely on "B" level English at regular school. What are your opinions on this, byke, and other knowlegable Swedologists? ... (hide full quote)

The subject of English can become more advanced later on for all children attending school in Sweden.
However we felt that it was paramount that if a language subject was to be taught from age 7 onwards, that our kids needed to have English taught to the same levels as that in native English speaking countries. To ensure that English and all the surrounding factors such as grammar were included. And to also ensure that any rules from the subject of Swedish didn't confuse or conflict. 

Again, what I think allot of parents do is confuse education with culture.
Especially those in mixed culture families.
Both are very important but shouldn't be confused as an easy way out.
Like I said our kids are fluent in both languages and are competent on different levels based on their different ages. One of the biggest questions regarding Swedish as a language is the need to have met certain standards for them to be able to go to university in Sweden in the future. I can't say if either will go, or to one in Sweden. But can say that both are fluent and competent enough that if they didnt have the paperwork (if it's still needed by then) that they could easily put their mind to it and get certification in a very short time period (if we don't include bureaucracy) so we have no fear any more.

We as parents both get to pass over cultural languages.
But we also are able to focus directly on education and how that may benefit our kids.

Obviously this is based on a family that considers itself "international" with no fixed plans of staying in Sweden forever. And for other families it may be set on different variables.

But I will re-iterate what I have said previously.
And that is that I do not have very high value of the Swedish education system in regards to how it works and caters for such a broad diversity of children. Especially in Stockholm where more than one third of all kids are from mixed backgrounds.i understand the idea behind it, but the social policy doesn't match up or meet the needs of the education policies. 

Again, I appolagise for any mistakes made on this reply before hand.
Automatic spell check and the bumps of the train doesn't make this an easy reply.

[Bender B Rodriquez]

I will try and answer Daves question later.. However I would like to appolagise for all the errors in my last reply (ironic) ... But I am typing from my phone on a train right now.

Are you sure it is only the phone? You tend to mix up "a lot"/"allot", "their/there" and "its/it's" quite a lot.