(edit title) Self Employed UK, resident in Sweden Tax Advice No UK company Options

[philios33]

Hi Nordic_bear, no problem. I guess it doesn't really matter about UK company at this point since my plan is to reside in Sweden permanently anyway. It is easier to work this way since with temporary residence I will have beeen bound either by days I must visit the UK (which I don't want to do) or by a date that I must leave Sweden (which I dont want to have). If I change my mind down the line, I will come to that problem later.

400.000 was just an example for when you should start thinking about getting a company (apparently). I will be making nowhere near that amount of money, so this is why I have decided to register as sole trader. I will take this 1 step at a time. If I start making real money down the line, it's something I will look at later. Looking at my main contract that I work, I predict something in the region of 250.000, but as a contracter I have no idea whats around the corner. I could end up making peanuts next month if my main client cuts me off. So somewhere in the region of between 200.000 and 300.000 SEK sounds plausible.

Can someone provide a link to a good tax calculator for sole trader income? I can only find ones for company tax.

Just wanted to say a bit about VAT because it seems I might have issues with it. VAT seems to be simple for if I'm dealing with UK Vat registered companies. I simply invoice them normally without charging VAT but making sure I quote their GB VAT number on the invoice.

However, I have just had a thought about vWorker or oDesk which I plan to use soon. You do work remotely and get paid via payPal via the website as a kind of escrow. I wont have invoices, just incoming funds in to my paypal account. Do I then need to create dummy invoices which include 25% MOMS? E.g. I get paid $200 in to paypal. This equates to 1338 SEK. So I create an invoice for 1070SEK + 268SEK moms? Does this then mean I pay the 268 to swedish government? and I get actual income of 1070?

OR, would it constitute a payment from the vWorker company (who probably have a vat number in the USA), so I dont add MOMS?

A few people have suggested that I speak to a proper accountant rather than go on what people say here, but I have searched around and actually cannot find any relevant accountants. Even a search of thelocal forum history yields little to no results for contacts for Swedish accounting advice to UK expats. As I explained above, it seems that accountants in Sweden are mostly working for larger companies or only deal with large company clients. Any information on this also would be very helpful to me.

Thanks

[Taxalien]

However, as Taxalien said, it may be beneficial to have a UK based company if you intend to move back to the UK, since instead of paying dividends you could reinvest money in ... (show full quote)

However, as Taxalien said, it may be beneficial to have a UK based company if you intend to move back to the UK, since instead of paying dividends you could reinvest money in the company (which is not taxable in Sweden), and later pay dividends when you are back in the UK. Legally, I think this only works if you are in Sweden less than 5 years. If you stay longer in Sweden you become fully tax resident, which means that you need to pay Swedish tax on dividends up to 10 years after you move back to the UK. Also, I guess the UK also has rules on how much you can reinvest and how much you need to take out in salary/dividends. ... (hide full quote)

Note quite so. The double taxation treaties Sweden have varies with different countries. In the case of the UK, the rule states that you are liable for capital gains and dividend taxation for 7 years after having left Sweden.

However, it does not apply to anyone who is a British citizen, because they are exempted from this rule.

So there is an interesting advantage for anyone British to come here and trade for a period of time and then leave.

The same applies for any Swede who have dual British nationality.

The rule can be read here:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxtreaties/in-forc...le-taxation.pdf

[Taxalien]

That is substantially better than being a sole trader.

Another material question and often overlooked is that there is a plethora of pitfalls in taxation law as a sole trader.

With a limited company there is a clearer demarkation between you and the company, so that you can do things you couldn't possibly do as a sole trader.

Much of the limitations come from the fact that as a sole trader your the one and the same tax object and that you cannot employ yourself.

[Taxalien]

Can someone provide a link to a good tax calculator for sole trader income? I can only find ones for company tax.

All types can be calculated here:

http://www.verksamt.se/portal/web/guest/st...bcalc_calcNav=1

Just wanted to say a bit about VAT because it seems I might have issues with it. VAT seems to be simple for if I'm dealing with UK Vat registered companies. I simply invoi ... (show full quote)

Just wanted to say a bit about VAT because it seems I might have issues with it. VAT seems to be simple for if I'm dealing with UK Vat registered companies. I simply invoice them normally without charging VAT but making sure I quote their GB VAT number on the invoice. ... (hide full quote)

RCS is fine for services.

However, I have just had a thought about vWorker or oDesk which I plan to use soon. You do work remotely and get paid via payPal via the website as a kind of escrow. I wont ha ... (show full quote)

However, I have just had a thought about vWorker or oDesk which I plan to use soon. You do work remotely and get paid via payPal via the website as a kind of escrow. I wont have invoices, just incoming funds in to my paypal account. Do I then need to create dummy invoices which include 25% MOMS? E.g. I get paid $200 in to paypal. This equates to 1338 SEK. So I create an invoice for 1070SEK + 268SEK moms? Does this then mean I pay the 268 to swedish government? and I get actual income of 1070? ... (hide full quote)

What are you up to? Is it services or products you are selling? It *does* matter what it is. You have to know and understand the differences it makes, what threasholds there are etc. You can find it if you search for EU cross border trade + VAT + threasholds etc.

For example, if you sell a product and sell more than the threashold in a tax year, then you become liable for VAT from the first sale you ever made that year, which would immediately set you back 20%.

A few people have suggested that I speak to a proper accountant rather than go on what people say here, but I have searched around and actually cannot find any relevant accoun ... (show full quote)

A few people have suggested that I speak to a proper accountant rather than go on what people say here, but I have searched around and actually cannot find any relevant accountants. Even a search of thelocal forum history yields little to no results for contacts for Swedish accounting advice to UK expats. As I explained above, it seems that accountants in Sweden are mostly working for larger companies or only deal with large company clients. Any information on this also would be very helpful to me. ... (hide full quote)

Contact skatter.se. See their forum for lots of tax relevant questions and discussions.

[philios33]

Sorry for the delay, didn't realise there were any more replies and also my head hurt. Can we simplify this because all this talk of companies, dividends & CGT is too much. So let's just screw companies for now.

I am a remote website developer working in Sweden for a UK company (on an ongoing contract). Technically I guess I am now a Swedish business since I reside here. I have a right of residence (I think) and have applied to migrationsverket for permanent residency. I have been working here and getting paid for the past 5 months in to my UK bank account. When my residency permit finally gets processed I plan to visit skatterverket and register my sole trader business, fill in the tax forms (doing the calculations for tax) for the months gone by to pay swedish tax and SS. I will get hit with a huge tax bill I know, but job done right?

[trumanshow]

If I was you i would spend some time in the UK and not bother trying to be officially a Swedish resident. there are few advantages and your work is in the UK and you have the freedom to spend extended periods of time in Sweden as an EU citizen. Until you are sure you want to stay and i would give that a few years. But it sounds like you have gone beyond that stage. If you find work in Sweden you can handle that separately as a foreign contractor who's work isn't mainly done in Sweden -which sounds like you.

[Yorkshireman]

I am a remote website developer working in Sweden for a UK company (on an ongoing contract). . Technically I guess I am now a Swedish business since I reside here.

When you pass the 6 month mark, then you are a tax resident in Sweden and your global income is subject to Swedish tax rules. They will back date that for the months from when you 1st came into the country.

I have a right of residence (I think) and have applied to migrationsverket for permanent residency.

You register right of residence based upon something!, employment with a swedish company, student, person of own means, self-employed ...how did you register?

Permanent Residency is not something you can apply for, you register right of residence, and that automatically is converted to Permanent Right of Residence after 5 years, if you have met/meet the requirements for Right of Residency.

I have been working here and getting paid for the past 5 months in to my UK bank account. When my residency permit finally gets processed I plan to visit skatterverket and reg ... (show full quote)

I have been working here and getting paid for the past 5 months in to my UK bank account. When my residency permit finally gets processed I plan to visit skatterverket and register my sole trader business, fill in the tax forms (doing the calculations for tax) for the months gone by to pay swedish tax and SS. I will get hit with a huge tax bill I know, but job done right? ... (hide full quote)

You certainly will get a big tax bill, that is right ...have you actually checked the rates of the various taxes to see if what you are earning is going to give the return you need to live on?

[philios33]

If I was you i would spend some time in the UK and not bother trying to be officially a Swedish resident. there are few advantages and your work is in the UK and you have the ... (show full quote)

If I was you i would spend some time in the UK and not bother trying to be officially a Swedish resident. there are few advantages and your work is in the UK and you have the freedom to spend extended periods of time in Sweden as an EU citizen. Until you are sure you want to stay and i would give that a few years. But it sounds like you have gone beyond that stage. If you find work in Sweden you can handle that separately as a foreign contractor who's work isn't mainly done in Sweden -which sounds like you. ... (hide full quote)

I initially thought it would be good to be able to do it that way, continue to pay tax in UK, but I do not want to have the burden of a date which I must return to UK by or a number of days I must spend in UK. I have already decided on a permanent move anyway.

When you pass the 6 month mark, then you are a tax resident in Sweden and your global income is subject to Swedish tax rules. They will back date that for the months from when ... (show full quote)

When you pass the 6 month mark, then you are a tax resident in Sweden and your global income is subject to Swedish tax rules. They will back date that for the months from when you 1st came into the country. ... (hide full quote)

That is fine, I always assumed they would backdate any income I earned in this country when I finally get everything sorted out.

You register right of residence based upon something!, employment with a swedish company, student, person of own means, self-employed ...how did you register?

Was told to fill in this form:

Registration of right of residence
Swedish form no. 140011
English form no. 141011

I ticked boxes for self employed business (but seems that it might be incorrect now). Also ticked for self sufficient (but might fail that because I only have EHIC). But also gave details of my gf with copy of id card & a signed letter saying I can depend on her for financial support if it comes to it. Seemed a bit silly to do at the time but sounds like it could be my only hope.

Permanent Residency is not something you can apply for, you register right of residence, and that automatically is converted to Permanent Right of Residence after 5 years, if ... (show full quote)

Permanent Residency is not something you can apply for, you register right of residence, and that automatically is converted to Permanent Right of Residence after 5 years, if you have met/meet the requirements for Right of Residency. ... (hide full quote)

The migration stuff is really confusing me at the moment. I am actively looking for an employment job at the moment but let's for the sake of this thread go through it again.

I had a UK business sole trader (that is, I am the business) without a limited company. I then move to Sweden to live with gf and do my job remotely in Sweden. Now I assume that means I am technically running a Swedish business because I'm residing here, right?

Employed in Sweden? No
Self Employed (they infer that it must be a business with a swedish company)? No
Student? No
Private health insurance (other than EHIC)? No

How could I possibly be self employed in Sweden already? I certainly don't have an F-Tax certificate or anything to do with VAT. In fact, theres not much documentation from HMRC proving that I actually have a sole trader business appart from Tax Return documents. Do you think that I don't have a right to reside in Sweden?

You certainly will get a big tax bill, that is right ...have you actually checked the rates of the various taxes to see if what you are earning is going to give the return you need to live on?

I am allowing a rough figure of 50% of my income which is what I've heard it averages out at. I don't really have a choice anyway. What I have to pay is what I have to pay.

I think next week I will just take all my documents to Skatterverket (something which I should have just done in the 1st place) and see what they say. After reading a lot of threads on here it seemed that migrationsverket was always step 1 and blocked other things which was why I was waiting for them. Just cant believe the amount of time and effort I've put in to doing the research and filling in forms and it sounds like I've actually done everything wrong so far. AHHHHH.

Thanks for the help btw

[MillyMcCann]

Ok you Tax people i have a scenario!

Myself and my husband and our daughter live here fulltime. we are british.

My husband spent some time in 2010 working with local community here as a general dogs body /snow clearer/ gardener - whilst he was learning the language. It was only really seasonal and he did this only on an ad hoc basis but was advised to register as both F and A skatt as he was getting very heavily taxed on such low earnings and considered setting up his own gardening service. So he got both the F and A skatt and organistation number. Declared his taxes in 2011 no problem.

However things turned bad with no work at all so he had a complete change of plan and began working as a Maritime Security Consultant out on tankers in the Indian ocean/Red sea (as a result of the pirate problem out there). He is not employed by anyone. He gets all the contracts through a company who have an office in the UK and Dubai. He invoices the Company and they pay for his services into his old UK bank account that we have always kept open.

Every month or so i transfer his wages from our UK account to our Swedbank. I pay £25 each time, hey ho couldnt really see anyway around it. Never considered asking for his wages to be paid into a swedish account. Guess i could ask!

Question is. Does Sweden have the same ruling about being overseas for more than 180 days a year and therefore get reduced tax rate as UK does??? he is working away 5 weeks at a time at the moment coming home for about 3 in between. Last year he was out of the country for more than 200 days.

When we filled in his tax return back in the summer we wrote this down.
Never asked for a penny in December....
is this because you get the first year free? again as in UK?
If i declare everything again this year am i going to get a really nasty surprise and the end of this year!?

BTW his earnings are in excess of 400,000KR PER YEAR....

I guess i need to speak to them direct and an accountant?

[PDX]

Last year he was out of the country for more than 200 days.. BTW his earnings are in excess of 400,000KR PER YEAR...

He can be out of the country on business trips or sent on assignments as much as needed (I once spent over 300 days), but if he is living permanently here and a resident, he must pay income tax in Sweden. That should be pretty clear, otherwise it is tax fraud.

~~~PDX~~~

[MillyMcCann]

Thanks for your answer.
'
So by your response i take it that Sweden does not have the same off shore work reduced tax that the UK has?

How about if you are a swedish sailor and are out at sea do you still have to pay the same amount of tax as everyone else then?

If i were trying to attempt tax fraud i would 'nt be declaring anything to anyone!

[philios33]

Original Poster Thread Continued...

I checked the Skatteverket website and it does say that you only need to bring right of residency along if you have it. So my plan today was to go to the my local Skatteverket and register on the population register to get a personal number. Took bank statements, invoices & passport. No right of residence yet because Migrationsverket have yet to reply to my case. I read that it can take up to 16 months.

Spoke to a woman there and apparently I registered for the wrong thing. I should have registered for "Permission to reside" in Sweden rather than "Right of residence". But I've yet to check it out, sounds like the same thing to me. She assures me they are different and that I need to register for that first. She denied that it took 16 months to get a reply from them. She said maybe a couple of weeks. Absolute BS.

She also said that I probably wouldn't get permission because I wasn't employed. I tried to tell her I was self employed, but she didn't think I was because I don't have a company. I mentioned "enskiltsfirma" but she said I definately wasn't that. She also said that I have been invoicing illegally and you are not allowed to invoice from Sweden without a company. WTF???

Surely they don't expect me to stop invoicing until I get it all sorted out.

I was given two forms for declaring my income from 2012 and 2013 which I will return on Monday, but that's just so they can get the tax I owe to them.

Again, can someone please explain this to me as it's getting out of hand now. I had a sole trading business in UK (no company) and I now want to reside in Sweden. It is that simple. You would have thought Sweden would welcome me with open arms to get the tax from my profitable business right? No. She pretty much said I might have to go back to UK.

[Yorkshireman]

She also said that I probably wouldn't get permission because I wasn't employed. I tried to tell her I was self employed, but she didn't think I was because I don& ... (show full quote)

She also said that I probably wouldn't get permission because I wasn't employed. I tried to tell her I was self employed, but she didn't think I was because I don't have a company. I mentioned "enskiltsfirma" but she said I definately wasn't that. She also said that I have been invoicing illegally and you are not allowed to invoice from Sweden without a company. WTF??? ... (hide full quote)

Technically she is right, it depends on what you have sold?

If you provide a service, eg. consultant, and not goods, then if you haven't registered for VAT (F-Skatte) it is treated by the tax office as salary, not payment for services, and whomever you did the work for is liable to pay the employers social charges (31.4%) and also your preliminary income tax. If you wrote on your invoice that you have f-skatte (innehar F-skattesedel), and haven't registered then you have actually broken the law.
It isn't a crime to send an invoice for services without being registered for VAT, just to make sure the customer pays all the relevant taxes. If it was goods, then you should have been registered for f-skatte.

As an EU Citizen(?) you do not ask for permission, You register your Right to Reside based upon something ...here it would be work, self-employed. This can be refused by MV, and it seems like you indeed have not met the requirements ... the Right to Reside in Sweden as Self-Employed requires that you have registered for F-Skatte and have a company registered with the Swedish Companies Register. You can claim you are in the process of setting it up, depends how long you have been here, then they want other proof eg. contracts, agreements and contacts with customers, plus proof you are experienced in the area you will work.

[philios33]

Yes, this is the confusing thing about "right of residence" for self employed. How do they expect people moving to Sweden as Self Employed to already have a Swedish company? That makes no sense. Of course I don't have a swedish company I'm from UK, of course I don't have Swedish F-Tax. How can I set this up? if I need to do this before I can get right of residence then it's yet another infinite loop caused by migrationsverket. Should I have done this while living in UK?

I provide a service as I work online. I have never mentioned anything to do with VAT, F-Tax, or F-Skatte on any of my invoices. I have of course put my address in Sweden at the top of the invoice. Can you check the employers social charges thing? I don't really want to hear anything more about companies or employers in this thread. I am not a company or employee. My client is in the UK and does not employ me so does not pay any extra NI or taxes in UK.

I of course expect to have to cover both the social fees and income tax when I do my returns, I just want to get everything sorted out. Will fill in these tax forms I've been given (Preliminar inkomstdeklaration 1) for 2012 and 2013. Also need to phone Migrationsverket and tell them to get their finger our of their arses because the Skatt lady didn't seem to care about my Migrationsverket reference number. Do departments talk to each other in Sweden?

[Yorkshireman]

Also need to phone Migrationsverket and tell them to get their finger our of their arses because the Skatt lady didn't seem to care about my Migrationsverket reference number.

Yeah that's the spirit! Blame Migrationsverket and the tax office etc.. for you own failure to check the information and rules before moving to Sweden.

...and it is possible to have a company without being resident here... in addition to that you do not need to register with Migrationsverket or the Tax authorities during the 1st 3 months ...so even when here it would have just been to ask!