(edit title) Being overcharged on rent How to collect proof for Hyresnämnden Options

[elk200]

Hey everyone,

the old topic again. I am renting a flat through a 2nd hand rental and the rent is far too high. The contract says 3.500, and the 1st hand tenant wants me to transfer 3.500 per month into one account and 4.000 per month into another account.

The contract runs for one year and I want to move somewhere else, then, anyway. I understand I can claim back a year's rent if overcharged, via Hyresnämnden.

I now want to make sure that for my complaint, I will have enough proof. The problem is that I never exchanged e-mails with the 1st hand tenant, but only with his girlfriend (her English is better than his). Understandably, most of the instructions were given verbally, anyway.

I have no e-mail saying clearly that my rent is different from the contract. I have one e-mail from the tenant's girlfriend, saying: "Here comes the account number where the second part of the money to be deployed, SEK 4000"... and then a second one with the account number.

But I don't even know whose account the second one is. Could be the 1st hand tenant, could be his girlfriend, could be someone else they know.

Does anyone have good advice how best to collect proof in this situation?
Is it possible to ask Hyresnämnden about this without risking that they will want to step in immediately? Of course, I don't want to land on the streets directly.

For example, I thought about transferring both amounts monthly, using "Hyran" as the transaction purpose. However, if I pull obvious shit like this, I fear they could consider cancelling the contract rightaway, and then I'd have to move out within 2 months.

To everyone who can help: Thanks in advance!

(Please only reply to this thread if you want to contribute to the question. I don't care who thinks I should pay because I agreed to a verbal contract etc. I am in concurrence with laws, and I also don't need to have any ethical concerns: The dude I'm renting from just bought a flat and intends to make a profit illegally instead of freeing up rental space for people who ACTUALLY need it.)

[byke]

Is it furnished?

[elk200]

Ah, good point. Yes, it is. Two cupboards, two sideboards, a desk, a sofa - but no dishes or cutlery or so. I guess that qualifies as fully or almost fully furnished.

[byke]

Are you renting it privately or through a business?

[elk200]

Privately.

[byke]

Do you pay any Gas or Electricity or other utility bills?

[elk200]

As far as I understood it, gas/electricity will not be included in the 7.500 we agreed on verbally. (It's definitely not in the contractual 3.500.)

[Bender B Rodriquez]

Is your lease approved by the landlord?

[elk200]

Yes, the lease is approved.

[Essingen]

This is probably a stupid question, but if you have a proper contract for one year for SEK 3500 a month, why don't you just not pay the second payment of SEK 4,000?

I suppose the answer is because they terminate the contract?

You can always phone Hyresnämnden during the period when they accept phone calls and ask them what to do.

[Yorkshireman]

I have one e-mail from the tenant's girlfriend, saying: "Here comes the account number where the second part of the money to be deployed, SEK 4000"... and then a ... (show full quote)

I have one e-mail from the tenant's girlfriend, saying: "Here comes the account number where the second part of the money to be deployed, SEK 4000"... and then a second one with the account number. ... (hide full quote)

Oooooh!... That was sneaky ... money to be deployed.

One can always argue the point of what the money being paid is actually for, and why pay it unless they specify exactly what the 4.000 is for. It can also be argued that since You are living in their apartment 2nd hand, You don't know them ... it is obviously payment for the apartment = rent.

However, I suggest contacting Hyresgästföreningen, they will be able to give You guidance:
http://www.hyresgastforeningen.se/Sidor/default.aspx

Is it possible to ask Hyresnämnden about this without risking that they will want to step in immediately?

They won't, it is a tribunal/court it does not act, You must bring the case to them to review ... then the person you are renting from has to justify the charges.

If You can afford to stay in the apartment for a while, do so whilst looking for a new one, You can take the claim to Hyresnämnden after you move out, and as you know, claim back 12 months difference between what You paid and what Hyresnämnded decide is the correct rent.

Remember, they can decide it is fair, too much or even too little ie. You have to pay the landlord more!

[Fernandis]

Hey everyone,the old topic again. I am renting a flat through a 2nd hand rental and the rent is far too high. The contract says 3.500, and the 1st hand tenant wants me to tran ... (show full quote)

Hey everyone,

the old topic again. I am renting a flat through a 2nd hand rental and the rent is far too high. The contract says 3.500, and the 1st hand tenant wants me to transfer 3.500 per month into one account and 4.000 per month into another account.

The contract runs for one year and I want to move somewhere else, then, anyway. I understand I can claim back a year's rent if overcharged, via Hyresnämnden.

I now want to make sure that for my complaint, I will have enough proof. The problem is that I never exchanged e-mails with the 1st hand tenant, but only with his girlfriend (her English is better than his). Understandably, most of the instructions were given verbally, anyway.

(Please only reply to this thread if you want to contribute to the question. I don't care who thinks I should pay because I agreed to a verbal contract etc. I am in concurrence with laws, and I also don't need to have any ethical concerns: The dude I'm renting from just bought a flat and intends to make a profit illegally instead of freeing up rental space for people who ACTUALLY need it.) ... (hide full quote)

I think the rules have been changed , see this http://www.thelocal.se/39994/20120330/

"...But a government inquiry submitted to housing minister Stefan Attefall on Thursday suggests that rules be changed to allow flat owners to set rents as they see fit.

The inquiry also suggests scrapping the need for owners to seek approval from their housing association before subletting."

Be realistic!
So, assuming if he has loan on apartment and he is paying interest on it...he can not offer you same avgift like SEK 3500. Assuming if the monthly interest is about 1500, then this makes the total rent SEK 5000. The landlord can charge for at least 15% on top of total rent (according to old rules, new rules seem to be changed, see above in the link) then this becomes 750 which in total turns to SEK 5750 and if you add rent of all thos things which make the apartment as "furnished" then this almost reaches to SEK 7000. But as you said, it is furnished, then I don't see that you are being over charged.

I also asked the same question to our Bostadsrättsföreningen, 1 year ago and they told me following:

1. For Hyresrät apartment, the one that you don't own but want to sub-let, you can increase 15% of total rent. And if the apartment is furnished, then the landlord can charge extra as a rent of all those things which make the apartment furnished.

2. If the apartment is bostadrätt, the one you own/buy. Then same rules apply as in Hyresrät (old rules), BUT landlord can match the rent to any apartment with higher rent in its surrounding area. For example, if similar apartment on Hyresrätt costs SEK 7000 in near by, then the landlord can charge you same amount of SEK 7000 + rent of furnishing. Keep in mid that rents of bostadrätt are lower from hyresrätt but if the landlord justifies that there is another apartment with similar rent in near by, you'll have to pay any legal cost associated with this case by the end, if any.

[mångk]

However, I suggest contacting Hyresgästföreningen, they will be able to give You guidance:. http://www.hyresgastforeningen.se/Sidor/default.aspx

+1

Simply the best advice in this situation!

[Yorkshireman]

@Fernandis, No!, currently it is the same rule for both once the person that holds the 1st hand contract, or owner of a bostadsrätt, rents out an apartment 2nd hand.

[Puffin]

I think the rules have been changed , see this http://www.thelocal.se/39994/20120330/"...But a government inquiry submitted to housing minister Stefan Attefall on Thursda ... (show full quote)

I think the rules have been changed , see this http://www.thelocal.se/39994/20120330/

"...But a government inquiry submitted to housing minister Stefan Attefall on Thursday suggests that rules be changed to allow flat owners to set rents as they see fit. ... (hide full quote)

This is irrelevant - it only a report suggesting change - it is not law yet and has not been passed by paliament yet and there is no telling whether these proposals will be passed/ammended before becoming law

According to the rent tribunal it is still the fair rent principle that is used for claculating rent
http://www.hyresnamnden.se/Hyra-i-andra-hand/Hyran/

Be realistic!
So, assuming if he has loan on apartment and he is paying interest on it...he can not offer you same avgift like SEK 3500. Assuming if the monthly interest is about 1500, then this makes the total rent SEK 5000. The landlord can charge for at least 15% on top of total rent (according to old rules, new rules seem to be changed, see above in the link) then this becomes 750 which in total turns to SEK 5750 and if you add rent of all thos things which make the apartment as "furnished" then this almost reaches to SEK 7000. But as you said, it is furnished, then I don't see that you are being over charged.

A property owner does not have the right to pass all apartment costs on to a tennant if these exceed fair rent - they can only charge a fair rent - tennants are under no obligation to buy their landlord's apartment for them

It is clear that the property owner/1st hand tennant knows what they are doing is illegal as otherwise there would be no need to have a difference between the approved rent and a separate additional rent - the rent that the landlord has approved is likely the legal fair rent for the apartment