(edit title) "Guilty Unless Proven Innocent" Police Attitude In Sweden Options

[Be_Anonym]

This incident relates back to few days earlier.

About me :
I am a international student at Sweden. And I think to give better description of why I might have been treated with the "Guilty unless proven Innocent" Attitude, I should not forget to mention that i come from a non Swedish Origin.

The Incident
The incident goes like this I have been working part time (2 -3 hrs per day ) to support myself during my stay here. And my work description means that I have to work outside, in the freezing cold, at night. And then I last weekend, I was approached by three policeman, two male and one female and was held up. The worst part of it was that I felt like I was treated as a guilty person, until i had proven my innocence, the legality of work, during the investigation. I was held up (not physically, but psychologically ) for 15 minutes, my mobility were restricted. I was not allowed to make calls, when i wanted to seek advice as to how to approach the situation.

I felt like I was guilty of something until I had proven my innocence, which I just feel is the opposite of what free countries like America and other countries tackle things. I felt like I was back in bureaucratic and tyrannical society and something like back in my home country(which I have to regretfully admit), where power meant they would abuse it to their needs and personal biases. I felt so helpless, so small and i felt intimidated and felt as if i had done a crime, sth wrong, even though I had not.

Feelings aside, more preposterous and prime concerns and questions were the following

Questions I pose

1. Can and should the police approach you and investigate you, just because they feel like one. i.e without a formal complaint or without observing any suspicious activity or threat possessed by individual (in this case me) to other individuals or the society.

(PS : I asked them specifically, "Is there a problem ?" : for which the answer I received was we will see if there's a problem )
I asked them did something bad happened around here, for which there answer was no
and they told me it was normal checks, but 15 minutes and being held up like a guilty one, didn't feel like a normal one to me.

Although some might argue this to be fundamental, to create a sustained , legal and beautiful society, its potential misutilisation, to settle personal score and harass and intimidate people, should not and cannot be overlooked.

Personally I feel that, police should not be allowed to do that, because they hold great powers, and as a individual, you are helpless. Hence I believe regulations should be in place to curb the possible abuse of power, that can happen from the powerful Police over the relatively powerless citizens or individuals.

If we assume that police can and should investigate anyone just because they feel like one, even when it means that the individual being investigated does not posses any threat to anyone/ society and no one had filed a formal complaint against him, then it leaves the room open to exploit this potential tool to intimidate, harass normal and legal citizens of the country. Its potential use by the police, to settle personal scores against a particular individual cannot be ignored.

Fundamentally, the legal basis cold be argued to be completely wrong then. This would imply similar to concept of a simply giving the powerful (Police), the limitless power without any obligation. This I believe is preposterous and is undemocratic. Further more wrong is the concept of "Guilty, unless proven innocence" theory that could be and was applied in my case.

Lastly, thank you all of the readers. I hope things would change for a better sustained society in the future.

[Hisingen]

To be honest, if you went on at the police as you went on here, then it is not surprising that they wanted to question you. I see no sign of you wanting to co-operate, only antagonize, and for that you had to be questioned as you appeared to have something to hide. C'est la vie.

[eu.unul]

I think that police should have the right to investigate suspicious people without a formal complaint. Swedish policemen and policewomen are really nice, come to my country to see what really means guilty until proven innocent.
I was stopped last week by police and questioned for almost one hour, and I was doing something really suspicious at least, somewhere at the edge of the law. Even so, they let me go finally, after a nice and long discution and after checking my background.
Police is doing their job and sometimes that means stopping people in the street at night doing some doggy business. By taking away this privilege they have you would take away any means for police to stop some suspect. Even running away with a laptop in hand around MediaMarkt could be a legitimate activity, but still is suspect and should be stopped and questioned by police.

[olga118]

"I felt like I was guilty of something until I had proven my innocence, which I just feel is the opposite of what free countries like America and other countries tackle things"

"Innocent until proven guilty" pertains to AFTER you have been charged with a crime and before you have had a trial.

"1. Can and should the police approach you and investigate you, just because they feel like one. i.e without a formal complaint or without observing any suspicious activity or threat possessed by individual (in this case me) to other individuals or the society.

(PS : I asked them specifically, "Is there a problem ?" : for which the answer I received was we will see if there's a problem )
I asked them did something bad happened around here, for which there answer was no
and they told me it was normal checks, but 15 minutes and being held up like a guilty one, didn't feel like a normal one to me. "

I don't know about Sweden but in the USA the Police have no obligation to inform you as to why they are asking you anything or if something has happened in the area that they are investigating. And if you only got held up for 15 minutes maybe you should consider yourself lucky. You really don't know what reason they had for detaining you, it could have been a perfectly valid reason.

[skogsbo]

I suspect the Police will have picked up on your anti vibe instantly, even if you didn't say anything as such. They see hundreds of folk everyday and ready body language and how people react should be 2nd nature. You probably gave them cause to be suspicious, your initial reaction prompted them to check you out fully.

You'd probably be here moaning, if you got mugged whilst working the streets one night and the Police didn't even question any body hanging around under street lights on corners.

[Svensksmith]

First off, if all they did was question you and not manhandle you or smack you around, I really don't see the seriousness of your complaint. Perhaps something criminal had happened recently and they were canvassing the area. Maybe you were acting and or dressed suspiciously...at least to them.

No one really likes to be stopped by the police but if all they did was to question you for 15 minutes, I don't think that's a big deal. Police work is difficult and dangerous and the world is getting more vicious daily. We should all be greatful that there are men and women who are willing to risk their lives to keep us safe.

[Yorkshireman]

The police in Sweden can stop and search You if they feel there is suspicion of a crime. Suspicion has no clear definition in law, it is down to the individual officers as to determine suspicion. In this case, they came to talk to You, skulking around the street in the freezing night, to eliminate their suspicion. Sounds very reasonable to Me!.

Wouldn't You be more upset if when You got home and it had been broken into and things stolen ... only to find out from the police ...yeah there was someone hanging around there in the freezing night but we are not allowed to make enquiries since no-one made a formal complaint 1st!!!

If You wish to be difficult, then I can point out ... You have the right to refuse to answer their questions ...however, this will only lead to them to have suspicion, making it worse for You.

In addition to that, if they ask for your Id, You have the right to refuse to show it. However, since You must be able to identify yourself in Sweden, the police have the right to take You to the station and keep You there until someone else can come and identify You... Oh!, they can also search You then for proof of Your identity!.

Why make life difficult for Yourself, 15 minutes of questions is hardly a life-time! Jeez, the normal complaint is that the Police don't do enough

[djmarko]

well if the police are out in the early hours and see people walking on the street, maybe they could have avoided a crime by questioning you for 15 minutes, i guess they are doing their job unless they physically harrased you, if you feel aggrieved, maybe you should seek redress, next time try and be nice to the police and friendly, maybe the guilt in them might actually let you off within 5 minutes

[klubbnika]

This incident relates back to few days earlier.About me :I am a international student at Sweden. And I think to give better description of why I might have been treated with t ... (show full quote)

This incident relates back to few days earlier.

About me :
I am a international student at Sweden. And I think to give better description of why I might have been treated with the "Guilty unless proven Innocent" Attitude, I should not forget to mention that i come from a non Swedish Origin.

The Incident
The incident goes like this I have been working part time (2 -3 hrs per day ) to support myself during my stay here. And my work description means that I have to work outside, in the freezing cold, at night. And then I last weekend, I was approached by three policeman, two male and one female and was held up. The worst part of it was that I felt like I was treated as a guilty person, until i had proven my innocence, the legality of work, during the investigation. I was held up (not physically, but psychologically ) for 15 minutes, my mobility were restricted. I was not allowed to make calls, when i wanted to seek advice as to how to approach the situation.

I felt like I was guilty of something until I had proven my innocence, which I just feel is the opposite of what free countries like America and other countries tackle things. I felt like I was back in bureaucratic and tyrannical society and something like back in my home country(which I have to regretfully admit), where power meant they would abuse it to their needs and personal biases. I felt so helpless, so small and i felt intimidated and felt as if i had done a crime, sth wrong, even though I had not.

Feelings aside, more preposterous and prime concerns and questions were the following

Questions I pose

1. Can and should the police approach you and investigate you, just because they feel like one. i.e without a formal complaint or without observing any suspicious activity or threat possessed by individual (in this case me) to other individuals or the society.

(PS : I asked them specifically, "Is there a problem ?" : for which the answer I received was we will see if there's a problem )
I asked them did something bad happened around here, for which there answer was no
and they told me it was normal checks, but 15 minutes and being held up like a guilty one, didn't feel like a normal one to me.

Although some might argue this to be fundamental, to create a sustained , legal and beautiful society, its potential misutilisation, to settle personal score and harass and intimidate people, should not and cannot be overlooked.

Personally I feel that, police should not be allowed to do that, because they hold great powers, and as a individual, you are helpless. Hence I believe regulations should be in place to curb the possible abuse of power, that can happen from the powerful Police over the relatively powerless citizens or individuals.

If we assume that police can and should investigate anyone just because they feel like one, even when it means that the individual being investigated does not posses any threat to anyone/ society and no one had filed a formal complaint against him, then it leaves the room open to exploit this potential tool to intimidate, harass normal and legal citizens of the country. Its potential use by the police, to settle personal scores against a particular individual cannot be ignored.

Fundamentally, the legal basis cold be argued to be completely wrong then. This would imply similar to concept of a simply giving the powerful (Police), the limitless power without any obligation. This I believe is preposterous and is undemocratic. Further more wrong is the concept of "Guilty, unless proven innocence" theory that could be and was applied in my case.

Lastly, thank you all of the readers. I hope things would change for a better sustained society in the future. ... (hide full quote)

Unfortunately, the Swedes are very suspicious people by nature and it is particularly true towards foreigners. If you were an ethnical Swede, or someone who look like an ethnical Swede, the problem would never have arousen. All the beautiful words about fairness, equality and the rule of law are only applicable to ethnical Swedes in Sweden.

I don't know what you can do about it, can you beat the system?

I am very surprised by the people's replies here indicating it was YOUR fault that police questioned you. I bet that would have a different interpretation if this happened to them or they children.

[sometimesinsweden]

What shit.

The Swedish suspicious nature...?

A lone person hanging around somewhere in the middle of the night without an obvious reason will generally get questioned by any decent police patrol of any country, because that's what their job is.

[klubbnika]

Yes, the Swedes' suspicious nature. That's right.

I had a night job in Sweden and hung around in the middle of the night many times with police passing by and not asking me a thing. But then again, I look like a Swede.

Hanging around at night is not forbidden or a crime per se, so please don't make it sound like it is.

[sometimesinsweden]

Flying by plane is also not a crime, yet I have my baggage and body examined and am questioned whether I am carrying illegal products.

Why is this?

Could be something to do with prevention, no?

[klubbnika]

Not everyone is checked that thoroughly at the airport. There are checks based on certain characteristics of the passengers. I never get my body examined but a Middle Eastern man with a beard is treated differently. So you comparison is not very relevant. Also, the international flights are more checked after 9/11, was there a 9/11 in Sweden?

[sometimesinsweden]

I obviously fly more than you and am of a darker hue, although am not bearded. I get checked regularly.

Do I mind? Not really. Statistically speaking, I'm more likely to be doing something wrong than an elderly white female.

A lone male in the middle of the night at the weekend with no obvious reason for being there is statistically more likely to commit a crime and so will be questioned by police. Their job is about prevention as well as solving a crime.

You need to be less hysterical about things.

[Snood]

I am very surprised by the people's replies here indicating it was YOUR fault that police questioned you. I bet that would have a different interpretation if this happened ... (show full quote)

I am very surprised by the people's replies here indicating it was YOUR fault that police questioned you. I bet that would have a different interpretation if this happened to them or they children. ... (hide full quote)

People aren't suggesting it's his fault. people aren't suggesting it's anybody's fault. It's just the police doing their job, he wasn't up to anything dodgy and they didn't do anything about it because they were satisfied that he was not up to anything suspicious.

I had a night job in Sweden and hung around in the middle of the night many times with police passing by and not asking me a thing. But then again, I look like a Swede.Hanging ... (show full quote)

I had a night job in Sweden and hung around in the middle of the night many times with police passing by and not asking me a thing. But then again, I look like a Swede.

Hanging around at night is not forbidden or a crime per se, so please don't make it sound like it is. ... (hide full quote)

That would be because it's not illegal to sell those services, it's those paying who are of interest to the police.