(edit title) Postdoc at Uppsala With a family Options

[wallace1837]

Hi all,
This is my first post. I am looking for advice on how to make it here. Currently the task seems impossible.

Here is my situation. I am starting my second postdoc here in Uppsala. I have over two years of postdoctoral experience in the USA. I moved here with my wife and baby.

The first thing that strike me is the lack of suitable housing. I moved from the USA, I know that the size of my apart will be small. In fact, it is not only that. There is not any viable housing option (two bedroom, for an amount that I can afford). Forget about first hand contract on Uppsalahem (I am the last one in a list of more that 1000 people for some apartment, in the best cases I am the last one of 300). Forget about blocket.se, there is at most one advertisement for two bedrooms (3 rooms) per day and they range in the 10000+SEK/month and far away in the outskirt, and people don't even call back when I show my "interested".

Before I came, people told me that I would be on a different "market" than graduate students, so finding a place to live would be easier. Since I came, I realize that it is far from the truth. Advance graduate student can make 26000SEK/month, which is right in the ballpark of my salary (30000SEK/month)! On top of that the students have been here longer, so they climb the list on Uppsalahem. Student in couple with children are entitle to parental benefits, therefore the household income is in the 50000SEK/month. In my case, since my baby is not 1 year old we cannot put her in daycare (most of them start at 1 year old). Therefore my wife needs to stay home, we cannot compete on a housing market when the income is basically half of the income of students. ----- In short I am way worst that grad students. First, salary is not commensurate with education, second, salary is not commensurate with experience, and third, salary is not commensurate with the cost of living.

Am I missing something? Am I the only one in that situation?

Best regards,

[johnjohn]

Guess your research ability is less than par.

[Opalnera]

Hi there

It's the same story every year. You are still thinking like an American if you think you need 2 bedrooms with a small child. You should be able to get by with 1 bedroom, I've known people who had to make do with a studio with a small child. Advertise yourself on blocket as searching for a 2 room apartment (that means 2 rooms plus kitchen ie bedroom and living room). Either you and your wife can sleep in the living room and your baby can have the bedroom or you can share if the room is big enough or you can get a loft bed. That is just reality here, you get used to living in small spaces and why IKEA was invented. At most you can hope for a temporary situation of up to 12 months and then you will probably have to do it all over again. It's harder at the start of the academic year. Also talk to everyone you know about finding something, there is a lot of word of mouth and within the university circles people are very aware of the situation, no one will think you are a lunatic for asking people you have only just met if they know of any apartments for rent.

Be careful of scammers, make sure you see inside the apartment and if the person owns the apartment ask that they have written approval from the bostad to rent it out.

Also try places a little further afield such as Tierp and Knivsta. They are both on the Upptåget train line to Uppsala.

We ended up just buying an apartment, no bedroom we sleep in an alcove off the living room. The rental market in Uppsala is ridiculous.

[Bender B Rodriquez]

First, salary is not commensurate with education, second, salary is not commensurate with experience, and third, salary is not commensurate with the cost of living. Am I missi ... (show full quote)

First, salary is not commensurate with education, second, salary is not commensurate with experience, and third, salary is not commensurate with the cost of living.

Am I missing something? Am I the only one in that situation?

Best regards, ... (hide full quote)

If you want a higher salary you have to negotiate. Post-doc salaries are not fixed.

[Opalnera]

30-32000 is the going rate for post doc studies. You can renegotiate your salary every 12 months.

[wallace1837]

Look like everyone get the same (except for MD, and managers)
http://www.scb.se/Pages/TableAndChart____28319.aspx

What is the basis of negotiation here (education, experience, cost of living, family situation, other)?

Best regards,

[Bender B Rodriquez]

30-32000 is the going rate for post doc studies. You can renegotiate your salary every 12 months.

Yes, it is the going rate, but if you choose to be average you will only be average.
You can renegotiate as often as you want, but the minimum is 12 months between negotiations.

[Opalnera]

Then by definition that is not as often as you want, is it?

Reality is the universities have budgets so unless you are doing something pretty spectacular you can expect the going rate. A lot of people who are doing post graduate studies are very talented and it's a pity that academia is not valued more highly.

[Bender B Rodriquez]

Sorry, meant maximum, not minimum.

Post-doc salary is usually paid from your advisor's research funds and in my experience there is always room for negotiation, but it depends on your area of course.

[byke]

Just out of interest, salary aside.

In the US with your current qualifications, had you found a postdoc position on a salary on par to averages for that area.

What sort of property could you afford to live in, and lifestyle ?

[cordoba05]

Hi!

You are definitely not the only one! I am also a postdoc, and I also came with my wife. The housing market in Sweden is really horrible, and it never happened to us before that we could not get even an ugly flat in an undesirable location. And we are living in the northern part of Sweden! I will tell all my colleagues in my homecountry (which is Germany) that they should consider any potential move to Sweden very well, given the lack of apartments suited for temporary working foreigners without any waiting time on the Swedish housing market lists. At least, the universities could offer more temporary housing for foreign researchers - if they REALLY want to attract foreign professionals.

1. One thing that striked me when reading your story: If you have a contract for more than a year, you and your wife should easily get Swedish personal numbers at Skatteverket. That would entitle you to get access to Försäkringskassan, and therewith to the minimum level of parental benefits (5400 SEK before taxes) and barnbidrag (about 1000 SEK) for your child. Hence, you could add some 5000 SEK to your monthly budget.

2. If you are still in the first three months of your contract, you can apply for the tax relief for foreign experts at Forskarskattenämnden. This could add some 3500 SEK to your monthly budget. It will demand some work of you and your employer, but it is worth a try, especially as it doesn't cost to apply. I am also a postdoc and I got the tax relief, even though I do not have a very big income. Yet, your employer has to prove that he could not find any Swedish guy for the work (he or she can be innovative when writing about that).

3. Good luck!

Cheers,
Cordoba05

[wallace1837]

Just out of interest, salary aside.In the US with your current qualifications, had you found a postdoc position on a salary on par to averages for that area.What sort of prope ... (show full quote)

Just out of interest, salary aside.

In the US with your current qualifications, had you found a postdoc position on a salary on par to averages for that area.

What sort of property could you afford to live in, and lifestyle ? ... (hide full quote)

I declined some US position to come here.

There is no doubt that I could afford a two bedroom in the US. My lifestyle since grad school did not change much. I don't need load of money, but when I don't get enough...

[Puffin]

Many new postdocs often find their initial place through countacts within their department - there is almost always someone going out on fieldwork or on a placement overseas who wants to rent out their apartment for 3-12 months. In fact I heard about one just yesterday at an Uppsala University do ... but it was already snapped up by the end of the evening

So ask your department to e-mail to staff to get leads

Also as people have pointed out - as a couple with a young child once you are registered (and if you get a permit for 12 months or more) your wife will be able to apply for paid child leave
- 180kr per day or 5400 per month before tax
- and just over 1000kr per month in child allowance
So you might be able to up your budget a little

[Marcelo2012]

Hi Wallace,

I am in a similar situation as yours. I moved from Canada with family to do a postdoctoral. I experienced a fraud during my arrival, spent 2 weeks in hotels until I finally got a temporal place in 25 m2 where I am living currently. I have spent a big part of my days searching for houses, writing emails and going to viewings instead of work in my research. The result: I am still in the same 25 m2 with the promise to moving to a 59m2 in December.

The University should be proactive regarding this. We, postdocs and PhD, came to this place to enrich it with our experience and make the University more competitive, and yet they do not do the minimum effort to guarantee that we have the most basic living conditions.

I know that I am in a early stage of my career and I do not expect the super salary, but at least something that will allow an affordable and decent place where to live after all the years I have spent working in my career. My current living conditions are the worst I have ever had in my life.

In my particular case, the housing situation has completely changed the idea I had of Sweden before, and I will not recommend Sweden to any PhD or postdoctoral fellow.

Good luck,

[cherrybubble]

Hey,

my partner and I are also postdocs here in Stockholm and just to give you numbers for future negotiations, we make 32K and 33K, and these are our first postdocs. I don't know your field, we are in biosci. My partner's boss, a very young professor, only makes 35K, so yes, the salary scale in Sweden sounds really compressed indeed! We moved here from the US as well and were also quite surprised at that!

I'm so sorry you're having a hard time, I always imagined that with all the social infrastructure in place, people with children would have an easier time of it here.

When we were moving here, my partner's boss asked around and we got offers for apartment rentals from people within the extended department. So, like Puffin mentioned, put out the word in your department. I suspect academics would prefer to let their apartment to other academics if they are going abroad for the short (or long-) term. And, honestly, if you can afford it, buy an apartment. I imagine apartments north of Uppsala would be less expensive than Uppsala proper or Knivsta even. Property seems to be a decent investment here in Sweden.

Good luck.