(edit title) Medical Malpractice Reform Isn't it time for accountability? Options

[Bender B Rodriquez]

Because they have been indoctrinated to believe that . 1, Swedish healthcare is the best, and . 2. complaining is seen as unpatriotic.

Nonsense, nobody is claiming that Swedish healthcare is the best.

If change happens it will be, in part, thanks to TheLocal's exposure of negligence and indifference in Swedish heathcarae. Before TL, the Swedish media used to be complici ... (show full quote)

If change happens it will be, in part, thanks to TheLocal's exposure of negligence and indifference in Swedish heathcarae. Before TL, the Swedish media used to be complicit in covering up the numerous examples of malpractice. ... (hide full quote)

Nonsense again. The Local does not produce any news themselves, they merely translate articles from Swedish papers.

But it is not the same everywhere. Healthcare is superior in most European nations as well as in Thailand and (was) in the U.S.

How about bringing some facts to the table then? Bringing up cases from the hall of fame of medical malpractice cases does not hold up here. Show me a peer-reviewed comparative study.

[Puffin]

If change happens it will be, in part, thanks to TheLocal's exposure of negligence and indifference in Swedish heathcarae. Before TL, the Swedish media used to be complici ... (show full quote)

If change happens it will be, in part, thanks to TheLocal's exposure of negligence and indifference in Swedish heathcarae. Before TL, the Swedish media used to be complicit in covering up the numerous examples of malpractice. ... (hide full quote)

You *are* being ironic? - right?

Most of The Local's arguments are translations of Swedish tabloids - not original reporting - and not always good ones from the tabloid Expressen being the usual source
- very rarely does it produce actual news other than the bloggy type articles
- it always posts the sensational headlines but rarely does the follow ups

In Sweden all issues of medical malpractice is public information - but in how many countries is this true?? I have a friend who is a leading personal injury lawyer (not in Sweden) who says that it is common for hospitals to demand a confidentiality agreement as a condition - so in many countries there is much less public knowledge of negligence as out of court settlments are never publicised. So not always comparing like-with-like

If you want news with any sort of balance you need to look at one of the broadsheets - but then you need to be competent in Swedish

[byke]

Nonsense, nobody is claiming that Swedish healthcare is the best.

Actually,
I dont want to rattle your cage.
But over the years I have heard many stupid claims relating to the medical profession such as the best in the world - often then comparing it to a mud hut in Ethiopia or some other daily mail similar styled comparison.

But what separates this type of claims or stupidity, is diversity in population.
And unfortunately this is a byproduct in living in a nation that is less diverse.

With claims often expressed as Swedish medical being one of the best in the world (at least to "foreigners".
To other claims like its a "free" system.
(Anyone who has come from say the UK where taxes are lower, and dont incur a service charge are often unpleasantly shocked).

But without looking to pick holes and have a pissing contest.
Unfortunately, there is a common factor which puts sweden at a disadvantage ... and this is the sexing up of facts relating to Sweden. Many foreigners can testify about being in a situation with natives, only to stared at almost with baited breath when an item is passed around or discussed such as a cookie - only to be told thats not any _____ "Thats a Swedish _____ (Insert product).

Unfortunately, such is the blind faith surrounding nationalism and what is foreseen as a mark of trust if relating to Sweden is only help breeding xenophobia and more middle class non free thinkers (my father included).

So while I am sure we can both agree that the medical system could be improved.
What I don't think you will ever be able to experience is the complete bollox often spoon fed by Swedes in biging up their own self worth through white lies and half truths often in discussions with non swedes relating to the "swedish model".

Dont get me wrong, I will gladly sing the praises of things that deserve praise.
But the discussions between Swedes and non Swedes is often very different to that of Swedes and fellow Swedes.

[byke]

I have a friend who is a leading personal injury lawyer (not in Sweden) who says that it is common for hospitals to demand a confidentiality agreement as a condition

I cant tell you how many stories of relating to education and child care / protection I have heard in Sweden.
Simply because of such confidentiality agreements which (be it right or wrong) has led many teachers to believe they cant report wrong doings because of their interpretation of such conditions and issues go unreported.

Having such rules, which can imply restrictions on the ability to report such issues to governing bodies - is not a benefit to any public service.

Just as the other week when the Swedish police reported they were unwilling to do their job properly in fear of persecution for admitting their own failures.

http://www.thelocal.se/43706/20121009/

Again, why has this taken so long to come to light and addressed?
Especially when it comes to public safety or health.

And while we can all discuss the dangers of "if we lived in Afghanistan" but it does nothing to highlight the lives it effects on this board.

[byke]

EDIT :::: Just read back the last 2 replies and must apologize for the gobbledygook.
Typing through a lounge TV 2 meters away is not an easy task ... especially when the keyboard and mouse keep cutting out.

[Bender B Rodriquez]

Actually,I dont want to rattle your cage.But over the years I have heard many stupid claims relating to the medical profession such as the best in the world - often then compa ... (show full quote)

Actually,
I dont want to rattle your cage.
But over the years I have heard many stupid claims relating to the medical profession such as the best in the world - often then comparing it to a mud hut in Ethiopia or some other daily mail similar styled comparison.

But what separates this type of claims or stupidity, is diversity in population.
And unfortunately this is a byproduct in living in a nation that is less diverse.

With claims often expressed as Swedish medical being one of the best in the world (at least to "foreigners".
To other claims like its a "free" system.
(Anyone who has come from say the UK where taxes are lower, and dont incur a service charge are often unpleasantly shocked).

But without looking to pick holes and have a pissing contest.
Unfortunately, there is a common factor which puts sweden at a disadvantage ... and this is the sexing up of facts relating to Sweden. Many foreigners can testify about being in a situation with natives, only to stared at almost with baited breath when an item is passed around or discussed such as a cookie - only to be told thats not any _____ "Thats a Swedish _____ (Insert product).

Unfortunately, such is the blind faith surrounding nationalism and what is foreseen as a mark of trust if relating to Sweden is only help breeding xenophobia and more middle class non free thinkers (my father included).

So while I am sure we can both agree that the medical system could be improved.
What I don't think you will ever be able to experience is the complete bollox often spoon fed by Swedes in biging up their own self worth through white lies and half truths often in discussions with non swedes relating to the "swedish model".

Dont get me wrong, I will gladly sing the praises of things that deserve praise.
But the discussions between Swedes and non Swedes is often very different to that of Swedes and fellow Swedes. ... (hide full quote)

And exactly how does that relate to this thread? If you want to write a novel about your life experience you should start another thread.

Nobody in this thread has said the Swedish healthcare is flawless nor that it is the best in the world. Several of the posters have on the other hand claimed that it is one of the worst. Regardless of what you claim you should back your claims by facts, which neither of the posters have done.

[byke]

And exactly how does that relate to this thread? If you want to write a novel about your life experience you should start another thread.

How does it relate?
It refutes your claim which also includes content to prove it wasn't just a "nonsense" response pulled out of a bag.
So if you want to back up your claim that he person you responded to was "nonsense" go ahead and prove it.

[Bender B Rodriquez]

Well, that's easy. You just have to read the posts on this thread to see the first point and then ready any article on this site to see the second point.

[byke]

Well, that's easy. You just have to read the posts on this thread to see the first point and then ready any article on this site to see the second point.

If its easy, prove it.
So far I have refuted your claim that

Nonsense, nobody is claiming that Swedish healthcare is the best.

And looked to shed light on Cogito's original quote you referred to :

I'm surprised that there's not more of an outcry among the Swedish public when it comes to these cases of medical negligence.-

Because they have been indoctrinated to believe that
1, Swedish healthcare is the best, and
2. complaining is seen as unpatriotic.

Again, if you want to put anything forward to contest this notion.
Then you need to do more than just come up with statements of "nonsense" and referrals to 1st and second quotes.

While we may not see eye to eye on many subjects, I am sure you can respect that my #23 post wasn't designed to irritate the natives. But more so show why I believe Cogitos statement may bare fruit and what causes it.

[Yorkshireman]

One of the main things that sets Sweden's medical malpractice process apart from many other countries is with regards bruden of proof. In Sweden the burden of proof lies entirely with the injured party, where-as to a greater degree in other countries there is often a tendency towards presumed malpractise.

The difference is basically, here We have to prove malpractise, whereas in other countries the medical care provider/practitioner has more often than not show they did the best possible, and defend their position.

One has to wonder though how much the cost of health care would change if the process in Sweden is made more accountable and Health Care providers have to defend their position, rather than have proof against it. Would it not start a spiraling of insurance costs, higher compensation claims, and medical professionals would demand higher salaries to cover the less certain career prospects, and their own professional insurance costs etc.., indirectly increasing the real cost of Health Care, which ultimately is passed on to Us, the Public?

Question is, where is the balance between acceptable standard of health care, accountability and total cost?

[organic225]

byke,

You and cogito make excellent points. Unfortunately, as we have seen, some posters fastidiously avoid a discussion of the substantive issues and employ techniques meant to distract one away from having such a conversation. For instance, that is why some are baselessly condemning The Local without providing a shred of evidence to substantiate their denouncements. Other sweeping misleading statements have been made, such as the claim that we critics are maintaining that the Swedish system is "one of the worst." I have not seen those assertions made here, certainly not by myself. One of the main problems, to which you and cogito have alluded, is the emotional response that is elicited when aspects of a Swedish system are brought into question.

[organic225]

Yorkshireman,

Very good points. The question at your conclusion is the key question. Any proposal will have to ensure that costs do not spiral out of control. In the U.S., some physicians pay up to $50,000 per year for malpractice insurance, even if they've never lost a claim. It is too litigious, and there are some people who will find any excuse to sue their doctor just to make money. On the other hand, I believe there are cases that do merit large compensation. There was a particular case in the U.S. where a patient in the hospital received an IV drug into a vein, when the drug is only supposed to be administered through an artery. It was a catastrophic mistake, and the patient lost her arm. Her quality of life has been significantly impaired, both physically and psychologically. There was another case where a patient had one diseased kidney and went into surgery to have it removed. The surgeons mistakenly took out his one healthy kidney, so in the end he lost both and now has to be on dialysis for the rest of his life. There are countless instances of people whose lives are ruined because of these kinds of scenarios.

Medical staff obviously can't cure everybody. They sometimes recommend suboptimal treatment regimens which can result in poorer outcomes. I believe these are areas of "malpractice" which should have a higher burden of proof. A delineation should be made, however, between these gray areas and cases of blatant medical negligence, such as those described in the first paragraph. I think tackling issues of overt negligence should be the first order of business.

[Migga]

If this is how the Swedes want their health system to work who are we to say that it should work differently?

But to solely base ones opinion on a few cases reported on this site or stories from others is laughable.

[byke]

If this is how the Swedes want their health system to work who are we to say that it should work differently?

From my understanding, you are Swedish?
So using yourself in this 3rd person is deliberately misleading.

And who says Swedes (as in a collective) want the health system to work like this?
This idea that Swedes all think a like is ridiculous - and using the strategy of labeling all things that are opposite to ones personal beliefs as "foreign". Just shows how fucking inbred some people are by using such propaganda laced with xenophobia.

[what would thomas paine d...]

A quick Swedish-language search regarding patient safety or medical injury, for example, brings up lots of info -- more than I can easily digest with my level of Swedish. But it's obvious that there has been and is an ongoing debate surrounding these issues.

Otherwise, regarding numbers, I would like to mention that a 2007 article cited as many as 4000 medical-accident related deaths each year. A more recent site claims there are around 3000 medical-accident related deaths and over 100,000 medical-related injuries each year. I imagine the number of deaths could be higher, since dead people can't report mishaps. And I'm not sure to what degree long-wait times are considered negligent. I imagine what is often normal wait time in Sweden would be considered negligent by U.S. medical standards, for example.

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?...artikel=1209144
https://www.vardforbundet.se/Agenda/Pressru...-av-vardskador/