(edit title) Lost and Found on the tram Never seen this in other countries Options

[Bender B Rodriquez]

It works because laws are tailored in that way. Whatever you do in life there are several laws (with provisions for each other) covering that issue.

For example if you travel by subway, your rights and responsibilities as a traveler and consumer are covered (partly or wholly) by several laws:
Lag (2006:1116) om information till passagerare m.m.
Järnvägstrafiklag (1985:192)
Lag (1977:67) om tilläggsavgift i kollektiv persontrafik
Ordningslag (1993:1617)
Trafikskadelag (1975:1410)
Distans- och hemförsäljningslag (2005:59)
Lag (2006:1116) om information till passagerare m.m.
among others

As a consumer your rights are protected by several laws depending on what you buy, who you buy it from, and how you buy it.

[byke]

But how can their be consumer protection, when purchased items don't make references to any form of terms and conditions through purchase? (Such as underground ticket sales)

At present we see that if a ticket is purchased, consumers who misplace their personal effects - These effects are stored in a privately owned storage area, rather than conforming to the law that most other persons and establishments are, in regards to submitting them to the police.

Ok, so we know the law makes a separate acknowledgment to allow these transport companies to store them in their own facilities. And may also charge a fee to cover the relinquishment of such items. But a consumer has to be more informed of such additional 3rd party fee's they could face in the event of loosing an item. And by not disclosing any form of terms or conditions prior to sale or disclosing on tickets that terms and conditions exist. It leaves the consumer in a very precarious situation.

Lets say said person was to loose a mobile phone on the network.
Only to not being able or willing to pay for what is technically a release fee.

At what point would the operator be able to (If they decided too) to charge a fee for private storage and other fee's surrounding the lost item?

At present it seems that the definition in how things operate and the laws that govern individual rights are wooly. And too much precedence is placed on individual consumers, rather than businesses who profit from such.

[AW1]

Is this not down to practicalities? I wouldn't expect to find a full list of terms and conditions on the back of a travel ticket. You would normally have some text referring to "see blah blah" for a complete list of our terms and conditions. It's then up to you, the consumer to go and read them.

[byke]

Exactly, any contract of sale should at least warn customers that terms and conditions apply.
Even if it only states terms and conditions apply, see ticket seller or this web address for more details.

[AW1]

Doesn't the ticket in question do this? I find it hard to believe it doesn't.

Also, talking about fuzzy. Have a look at this page, especially the taxi part...
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/contact/871.aspx#pag...ecting-property

[byke]

As stated earlier in this thread, the tickets I have previously seen do not state any form of T&C or references to any. I don't know if the smaller singular tickets do either.

[Bender B Rodriquez]

But how can their be consumer protection, when purchased items don't make references to any form of terms and conditions through purchase? (Such as underground ticket sales)

As a consumer you are always protected by law but it is also partly your responsibility to know your rights. The law can never be negotiated away by separate terms and conditions (why in most cases EULA's you sign on the internet are not worth their salt), but I agree that sometimes it would be nice to have a detailed explanation about your rights according to the laws.

Some companies, such as banks and telecom, are good at this, probably because they have so many complaints
In other cases you only get a receipt, but the laws still apply. For example, when I bought my car I only got a receipt from the dealer.

[byke]

As a consumer you are always protected by law but it is also partly your responsibility to know your rights.

Do businesses have any legal obligations to inform their customers of any special terms as part of their sales agreements?

[Bender B Rodriquez]

They have the obligation to give you the price of the product you buy. In some cases the price have to be exact (goods), and in some other cases (for example construction) they have to give you a reasonably accurate price estimate.

They are also not allowed to give you terms and conditions that violate consumer laws.

Note, the in the case of lost property, this is not really a part of the product. The administrative fee that for example SL or SJ are allowed to take for storing lost goods is comparable to what the police would charge, and the procedure for lost property is regulated in law. Here you have an overview of the laws that apply to lost property: http://www.polisen.se/Global/www%20och%20I...RPSFS2010_7.pdf

[elkhead]

everything in this country costs money, don't you agree?

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch! If you think about it for a minute: The tram operator needs facilities and staff to stock, manage and dispose of lost property (they're donating it to charity). Eventually someone has to pay for it, either

1. every passenger (by paying slightly higher ticket prices)
2. the taxpayer (through subsidies)
3. or just the one who has lost his/her stuff.

No. 3 does sound reasonable to me as the person who has lost his/her belongings is the one who profits from the lost property service.

Although one could argue that losing stuff on public transport happens to the best of us, so No.1 would be more appropriate especially if the stuff you have lost isn't worth paying the fee and it just might end up in the trash bin.

[Garry Jones]

Well, someone has to pay for this service. One way is to have a small surcharge on every ticket so everyone pays for it. The other way is to make people who use the service pay for it.

I remember this being discussed on "That's Life" back in the UK in the early 80's. A young girl had lost 20p on a train and British Rail wanted their 50p standard charge to give it to her. Esther Rantzen did her bit to make BR look bad and I think "The Doc" even did a little song about the episode.

[byke]

They have the obligation to give you the price of the product you buy. In some cases the price have to be exact (goods), They are also not allowed to give you terms and condit ... (show full quote)

They have the obligation to give you the price of the product you buy. In some cases the price have to be exact (goods),

They are also not allowed to give you terms and conditions that violate consumer laws. ... (hide full quote)

What happens to companies that misprint prices or webstores that have a wrong description or wrong price?
Are they bound to sell it at the price stated, if say a webstore has listed it wrong?
And should consumers take screen shots of any product description when ordering such items?

[Yorkshireman]

No, Consumer law in Sweden allows for mistakes from the seller side, and/or the publisher of the price.

[byke]

What about item description?

[Yorkshireman]

If You mean with regards lost and found ... then you are on a lost road, you are paying for the journey not a lost found service. Wouldn't You complain @byke in advance for being charged a fee for lost/found service even though you were not carrying anything

The public transport service is just providing a service to make it easier for You to go to a single place. Otherwise according to law, they should give the found object to the police ... and you wouldn't know which police station!!! It is just the general lost/found law that is being applied.

The lost/found law states very clearly that you can be charged an administration fee + plus a reward fee for the objects return. Case Law indicates that a reasonable reward portion for the object return is approx 10% of it's market value.

You do not need to print on every objects label the ground laws that apply to that product ... they just do