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Why are the Swedes so dumb?

Texting whilst driving now legal

byke
post 23.Dec.2012, 01:39 AM
Post #16
Location: Europe
Joined: 28.Oct.2008

I don't buy into this ideology that laws are not enforceable due to certain groups not willing to follow them.

Obviously, laws should be enforced to represent the sentiment of the nation.

But I can't see laws such as the IPRED laws being highly supported by the mass public in Sweden, yet are still both passed as laws an attempted to be enforced.

Prostitution laws are another type of example of laws being introduced to protect persons. Yet pale in significance in regards to to the type of danger they have on innocent 3rd party persons.

If such laws phone laws are un enforceable , when compared to other laws. Then its either a case of a police force that are incompetent or its a total lye given the laws such as the IPRED laws which still has thousands of Swedish users sharing copyrighted files.
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Bender B Rodriquez
post 23.Dec.2012, 01:47 AM
Post #17
Joined: 25.Mar.2006

The difference is that both those laws were the result of lobbying from interest groups. Neither of those are really enforced in practice.
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Taxalien
post 23.Dec.2012, 02:14 AM
Post #18
Joined: 24.Dec.2009

I like the wiki photo of her. With a mobil stuck to her brain.

This is the main points of her resume:

QUOTE
Education
1987–1989 Diploma in Business and Management Studies,
RMI-Berghs, Stockholm
1981–1984 Upper Secondary education at Västergårdsgymnasiet
Posts and assignments
2010– Minister for Infrastructure
2008–2010 County Commissioner of Finance, Stockholm County
1997–2008 Member of Parliament
2006–2008 Chairman of Employment Committee, Parliament
2003–2006 Chairman of Environment and Agriculture Committee,
Parliament
1994–1997 Chair of the Moderate Party caucus,
Södertälje Municipal Assembly
1987–1994 Hotel Manager, Stadshotellet, Södertälje
1986–1987 Advertising Sales Assistant, Södertäljekuriren
1984–1986 Ombudsman, Moderate School Youth Organisation

So keep in mind that it is a person who last had any real job 18 years ago.

So what do you expect to come out from someone like that, with such a sheltered life in politcs?
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Taxalien
post 23.Dec.2012, 02:18 AM
Post #19
Joined: 24.Dec.2009

QUOTE (Migga @ 23.Dec.2012, 12:55 AM) *
Here is this myth again that was talked about in the previous thread. Where do you get this idea from? The ones behind the report and the ones in charge aren`t saying that ... (show full quote)

Yes it is obvious Migga. You are on the same level as this individual.

At the same time as we don't push for a law that penalises this, why don't we also drop all the laws we already have covering:

  • Rape
  • Pedophelia
  • Theft
  • Burglary
  • Murder
  • ,,.


Because it is obviously also not working there. It is not, as you put it, going to stop anyone from doing it.
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Hamsterdam
post 23.Dec.2012, 09:01 AM
Post #20
Joined: 25.Mar.2012

It is unfair to call Swedes dumb just because their unelected politicians make up the rules. Swedes are however sheep like obedient on law and would, if told to, stop using their mobiles while driving. (Not all but most)

Beck to the politicians who are not individually voted in but are given the jobs (with pay for life) based on favour by the party that is elected in that area. Too many are kids and lack experience that will eventually destroy common sense politics here and make the country a laughing stock.

It is funny that the ideal is not to give someone a job in an office until they are 27 years old but they can be a politician at 23.
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frenchviking
post 23.Dec.2012, 09:03 AM
Post #21
Joined: 19.Aug.2012

Seriously... There are bigger problems to solve in sweden than that...
My view is that some people can drive and some people can't... Whether they are sobber or drunk, texting or not, some people are dangerous when driving... These are the reasons behind the high amount of road casualties...
Beeing french... I grew up with drink and drive being tolerated and i also have been calling and texting whilst driving... I never had an accident...
My father's wife however... Well she is not meant for driving... smile.gif
For once that sweden is not the country with the strictiest law in europe, lwt's not complain!!!
It is like the eu trying to ban snus... Why? People who do it don't harm any one else than themselves... Much better than cigarette! Why not ban cigarette?
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Migga
post 23.Dec.2012, 09:42 AM
Post #22
Joined: 26.Jul.2011

QUOTE (Hisingen @ 23.Dec.2012, 01:11 AM) *
All I see from people on this forum is excuses for the powers that be.

And all I see from people on this forum is that they take every news and twist it so they can call Swedes dumb or whatever. I have no love for stupid politicans or self proclaimed experts but it doesn`t give one the right to write-off an entire country`s population as dumb.

QUOTE (Taxalien @ 23.Dec.2012, 02:18 AM) *
Yes it is obvious Migga. You are on the same level as this individual.At the same time as we don't push for a law that penalises this, why don't we also drop all the l ... (show full quote)

It`s hardly the same thing since the ban is being implemented under an existing law. But you already have your mind set and won`t listen to reason. We should have laws but it`s educating people and creating a society where people don`t want to commit crimes that will make those problems go away. I´m actually in favour of a ban but what I`m not in favour of is people making threads calling a country`s population dumb or misinterpeting reports to think they are saying something when they are not.
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Mo
post 23.Dec.2012, 10:05 AM
Post #23
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 30.Nov.2005

The critical passage to me is

... "som innebär att man kan dömas till vårdslöshet i trafiken"

i.e. you might be found guilty of dangerous driving rather than it is always illegal to use a hand held mobile phone for calls or texting (or surfing the web) whilst driving a car.

Maybe we will see a load of high profile cases and people will adjust their behavior but I doubt it, to me it fits in the - ignore the evidence, think positive, don't be the first to move and make a fuss.

Given that the mobile phone company's logs show texts/calls send and received it is one of the more straightforward things to prosecute should it be made illegal.

these days whenever I see someone driving like an idiot I make a point of checking what they are doing and 75% of the time they are messing with a mobile.

bottom line is people are dying for this "convenience"
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Yorkshireman
post 23.Dec.2012, 10:20 AM
Post #24
Joined: 22.Nov.2011

QUOTE (Garry Jones @ 22.Dec.2012, 08:08 PM) *
Not only do they allow the use of mobile phones whilst driving they then commission a report to see if texting whilst driving is dangerous. The rest of the world already know ... (show full quote)

No one is saying that it isn't dangerous. However just creating a law does not stop it. As the UK found, who have had the law for many years, even when they increased the penalty for breaking that law the use of phones whilst driving actually increased. So, the solution is to educate, and in association with the annual christmas anti drink-driving campaign of ads they are including anti phone-whilst-driving things.

Sweden is just saying that in all the countries that have implemented a law banning it, it didn't have any effect. Not on the population nor the number of accidents. So, the solution is not a law, but to change the mind-set of the population to understand more clearly that using the phone whilst driving is dangerous and shouldn't be the norm.

In addition to that, something which I welcome, is that they will highlight more clearly that you can be charged under existing law with regards negligent driving.

QUOTE (byke @ 23.Dec.2012, 01:39 AM) *
I don't buy into this ideology that laws are not enforceable due to certain groups not willing to follow them.

Certain groups in this case being a large percentage of the driving population!
There is no point introducing laws onto the books that cannot be enforced, each time you do that there is a psychological effect on the population, whether you realise it not, which leads to disrespect for the law as it becomes seen as useless.

In Sweden, before any law is passed to parliament for a vote, the exact wording of the law is passed to an expert panel of judges etc... it is their job to determine 2 things
1. Can they see the consequences of passing this new law in relation to all other laws that exist.
2. Is it enforcable.
This panel then make recommendations to the government with respect to the proposed law ...it is then up to the government to decide whether they drop it or pass it to parliament for a vote.
QUOTE (byke @ 23.Dec.2012, 01:39 AM) *
If such laws phone laws are un enforceable , when compared to other laws. Then its either a case of a police force that are incompetent or its a total lye given the laws such ... (show full quote)

Laws are unenforcable if you do not have the resources nor technologies to enforce them. Full Stop!
Sweden does not have a well resourced Police force, and I seriously doubt that the population would welcome a HUGE increase in taxes to resource trying to catch people using mobile phones whilst driving.
They would much prefer that existing, and any additional resources are used trying to catch those who
commit violent crimes. (currently something like <10% are solved)

Let's turn around Your emotional responses with regards a child ...How would You react if the Police said, Sorry we cannot spare any resource to track down that person that abused your child, we are using most of our resources out on the streets trying to catch people using their phones whilst driving.
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byke
post 23.Dec.2012, 11:08 AM
Post #25
Location: Europe
Joined: 28.Oct.2008

I am sorry, but thats just a very lame cop out.
Swedish taxes are some of the highest in the world and help paint this picture of a welfare utopia, and your now telling me that laws bare no value since they can not be enforced since the police are so called under resourced?

Obviously such crime needs to carry penalties, to ensure such offset costs are met by offenders.
The vehicle they are driving carries a large monetary value. And while I am not saying one should seize every car of such offenders (which would send out a strong message) it doesn't mean they cant properly enforce strong fines to cover overheads. Or put the offset cost of patrolling such costs onto drivers through offset charges (road taxes, petrol prices etc).

But more than anything, what this highlights yet again is either politicians that don't support the idea of a ban. Or as some have suggested a legal system, which is close to worthless.

Either way, its not my bag.
I dont agree with the latest chain of events.
But in this sense it would appear that like the pro gun owners of America, its gong to be close on impossible to change such a large hell bent public opinion.

Swedes love their phones while driving (allegedly) and regardless of the dangers to others, in a selfish way - they dont care about how it will effect others (self centred potential murderers).

Americans love their guns (allegedly) and demand their right to own them, regardless of the dangers to others, in a selfish way - they dont care about how it will effect others (self centred potential murderers).

I wonder which other countries in Europe, it is legal to drive with a mobile phone?
As it would put Sweden on par to the same standard.
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byke
post 23.Dec.2012, 11:10 AM
Post #26
Location: Europe
Joined: 28.Oct.2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones...tries_with_bans
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byke
post 23.Dec.2012, 11:26 AM
Post #27
Location: Europe
Joined: 28.Oct.2008

I just wanted to add, that many Americans are pro gun ownership as they claim it helps deter deaths. Whereas I ant see mobile phones being put in the same context. So in this sense, maybe American gun nuts, are one step above Swedish phone nuts in terms of credibility.
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frenchviking
post 23.Dec.2012, 11:45 AM
Post #28
Joined: 19.Aug.2012

Why do people spend so much energy complaining about sweden?
There must be something good about sweden since so many of us moved here...
Personally, if one day i become so sour about sweden... I will move elsewhere! Some idea for those who hate sweden so much...
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Yorkshireman
post 23.Dec.2012, 12:01 PM
Post #29
Joined: 22.Nov.2011

QUOTE (byke @ 23.Dec.2012, 11:08 AM) *
I am sorry, but thats just a very lame cop out.

It is fact.
QUOTE (byke @ 23.Dec.2012, 11:08 AM) *
Swedish taxes are some of the highest in the world and help paint this picture of a welfare utopia, and your now telling me that laws bare no value since they can not be enfor ... (show full quote)

There is a finite amount that can be spent on policing. If you create laws that require not only additional resources in police, technologies required to catch and gain evidence, judges and court systems to process any challenge to charges etc... everything has a cost and needs to be balanced.
If the number of police on the streets was substantially increased, I BET YOU would be the 1st to jump up and shout that Sweden has now become a Police State.
QUOTE (byke @ 23.Dec.2012, 11:08 AM) *
Obviously such crime needs to carry penalties, to ensure such offset costs are met by offenders.The vehicle they are driving carries a large monetary value. And while I am not ... (show full quote)

You have to lay out a HUGE cost 1st, and then catch people offending in order to finance it in your scenario. In several states in the USA they actually found that once they put a ban in place the number of crashes attributed to texting whilst driving increased ...the conclusion drawn was that it was because of the law introduction, and that drivers becomes even more distracted as they tried to hide the fact that they were texting whilst driving. My conclusion would be that it is peoples perception and attidtudes need to change.
QUOTE (byke @ 23.Dec.2012, 11:08 AM) *
But more than anything, what this highlights yet again is either politicians that don't support the idea of a ban. Or as some have suggested a legal system, which is close to worthless.

Aaaah... Your eternal cry that the legal system is worthless wink.gif ...not having a ban in place does not indicate whether a legal system is worthless or not. As for political support, one could argue that there is not strong public support for a ban, otherwise the political parties would push it through regardless of what any reports etc...
QUOTE (byke @ 23.Dec.2012, 11:08 AM) *
Either way, its not my bag.I dont agree with the latest chain of events.But in this sense it would appear that like the pro gun owners of America, its gong to be close on impo ... (show full quote)

And here is where you show that you know you are on the wrong track and decide to divert the argument to some other hot topic biggrin.gif
QUOTE (byke @ 23.Dec.2012, 11:08 AM) *
Swedes love their phones while driving (allegedly) and regardless of the dangers to others, in a selfish way - they dont care about how it will effect others (self centred potential murderers).

And by Swedes, and others, You mean? Whatever happened to supporting cultural diversity? biggrin.gif
...In Sweden, people love their phones, and some use them whilst driving and others don't.
QUOTE (byke @ 23.Dec.2012, 11:08 AM) *
I wonder which other countries in Europe, it is legal to drive with a mobile phone?

Many, but that doesn't mean they aren't breaking the law ...often ban's put in place are just to win public favour, even though they do not really work.
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Hamsterdam
post 23.Dec.2012, 12:04 PM
Post #30
Joined: 25.Mar.2012

QUOTE (frenchviking @ 23.Dec.2012, 11:45 AM) *
Why do people spend so much energy complaining about sweden?There must be something good about sweden since so many of us moved here...Personally, if one day i become so sour ... (show full quote)

Yes, strange that being French you do not have the guts to challenge or debate perceived wrongs. (Not including striking over receiving less subsidies from other countries to support you)
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