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Romanian vs Swedish name

Guy trying to join the employment club

oddsock
post 5.Feb.2013, 11:22 PM
Post #16
Joined: 19.Dec.2008

QUOTE (Migga @ 5.Feb.2013, 10:39 PM) *
I could say the same about you who takes this single students word as some truth written in stone.

Nah, there have been many studies on this by many people, all come up with the same result. And I have experienced it myself in a number of countries.

And it's not just a case of preferring one nationality when the qualifications are equal, often the candidate with the inferior qualifications can be chosen.
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Yorkshireman
post 5.Feb.2013, 11:45 PM
Post #17
Joined: 22.Nov.2011

QUOTE (oddsock @ 5.Feb.2013, 11:22 PM) *
And it's not just a case of preferring one nationality when the qualifications are equal, often the candidate with the inferior qualifications can be chosen.

And what is wrong with that?

Qualifications does not = Best-for-position, there is more taken into consideration when employing.
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oddsock
post 6.Feb.2013, 12:11 AM
Post #18
Joined: 19.Dec.2008

Yes, I should of said qualifications + experience. I've seen it happen many a time that the candidate from the same ethnic group as the employer, but with inferior qualifications + experience, gets the job.

It's bullshit whichever way you look at it.

And in the case of this Romanian person they were exactly the same CVs and the only thing that was different was the name.

My experience as a foreigner has always been that you have to work twice as hard to get half the recognition. I had hoped Sweden would be different, but it seems to be the same/worse as/than other places.
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Yorkshireman
post 6.Feb.2013, 12:18 AM
Post #19
Joined: 22.Nov.2011

QUOTE (oddsock @ 6.Feb.2013, 12:11 AM) *
Yes, I should of said qualifications + experience. I've seen it happen many a time that the candidate from the same ethnic group as the employer, but with inferior qualifi ... (show full quote)

Experience can play a big part, but I also know companies that will discount anyone that does not appear to have lived a considerable time in Sweden, name plays a part in that too when filtering applicants quickly. The reason is that even if you "speak" Swedish sometimes it can become tiresome to other employees, depending upon the job, that there can be easy misunderstandings and having to repeat the same things and explain etc... just because the employee isn't fluent in the language. It can make a big difference in handling stressed business situations.
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skogsbo
post 6.Feb.2013, 07:54 AM
Post #20
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

I can't see the issue and I'm an immigrant. Work is work, and if a business owner is employing people etc it's their choice. Many can't afford to take a risk on if a person will fit into an existing team, so they'll employ a Swede and increase the chance of perceived success. It is often the business owners family and home that are at stake if a small business crashes, why should they risk anything employing anybody other than who THEY want.

They also know that verifying CV details overseas are much harder, so their CV claims are harder to check up on too, or in some cases it's hard to correlate qualification X in say Romania to qualification Y in Sweden. Again why take a risk, it is often their own job and business at stake. A politician who only takes the taxpayer money as a wage, will never understand the risks of real business, just look at the idiot of an enterprise minister.

EDIT, as for the student, it only goes to prove how little extended education in various universities does not teach people about the real world of employment.
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Potentialexpat
post 6.Feb.2013, 08:02 AM
Post #21
Joined: 16.Oct.2012

You could do this same study in the US with a name like Tyrone, Lopez, vs a guy named David, bob, Peter ETC, and find similar results.
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skogsbo
post 6.Feb.2013, 08:05 AM
Post #22
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

the only person who broke this rule is a guy called Obama.
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SergioSver
post 6.Feb.2013, 08:11 AM
Post #23
Joined: 8.Nov.2011

QUOTE
Regardless of opinions on whether the preconceived notions are correct or not ...I personally believe it is Employers Choice, and quite rightly so ...I certainly do not want to be told who I should or shouldn't employ

So much so.

I agree, I would even propose to take this argument a bit further. For instance, why you should not be allowed to decide as an owner of the store who should be allowed to enter the store and who should not? ( Based on his color of hair, age, types of glasses or brand of his shoes).

Or take Emergency Medical Service, what a great idea it would be to allow them to decide who should be treated or who should not? Nurses after all can dislike various things, you know-age, color of the eyes of a person, or his hands manicure.

Or firefighters, why would not we allow them to go where they want? It should be their choice. Based on the area, time of year, time of day, sound of the voice of the person on the phone and many other things.

I am sure that this despicable situation when we are told what to do should be changed. once and for all. So everyone should have the freedom of actions...
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SergioSver
post 6.Feb.2013, 08:26 AM
Post #24
Joined: 8.Nov.2011

Certainly discrimination exists everywhere, but it seems to me that the problem is more acute and apparently more serious in Sweden then in other countries.

For instance, this is the result of the research of comparison between Sweden and Canada on this topic (produced as I can see by one of the Swedish Business Schools):

The results from correspondence testing showed that there is no significant difference between applicants with foreign names and applicants with English names in Canada.

In applications for skilled jobs, applicants with foreign names have a call back rates of 79 percent while applicants
with English names have call back rate of 80.5 percent. The applications for semi-skilled jobs is not significant but application for low skilled jobs showed that call back rates for applicants with English names is 3.4 percent higher than the call back rates for applicants with foreign names.

The aggregate results showed that hiring discrimination in Canada is not significant."

Whereas this are their findings for Sweden:

However, correspondence testing showed that there is an observed significant difference between applicants with foreign names and Swedish names in Sweden.

Applications for skilled-jobs showed that applicants with Swedish names have a call back rate of 123 percent while applicants with foreign names have a call back rate of 62.2 percent. This result concur with that of Bursell (2007) who discovered that there is a significant difference between the call back rates of applicants with foreign names and applicants with Swedish names. Bursell (2007) estimated that applicants with foreign names have a call back rate of 4.3 percent while applicants with Swedish names have a call back rate of 20.8 percent.

Reasons for the high call back rates for applicants for Swedish names shows there is hiring discrimination against foreign names."

http://kau.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:404608/FULLTEXT02
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Yorkshireman
post 6.Feb.2013, 08:49 AM
Post #25
Joined: 22.Nov.2011

QUOTE (SergioSver @ 6.Feb.2013, 08:11 AM) *
Or take Emergency Medical Service, what a great idea it would be to allow them to decide who should be treated or who should not? Nurses after all can dislike various things, ... (show full quote)

Hmmmm ...nice try, but you are mixing up between employer and employees ...Employees must do what the Employer wants.
QUOTE (SergioSver @ 6.Feb.2013, 08:11 AM) *
Or firefighters, why would not we allow them to go where they want? It should be their choice. Based on the area, time of year, time of day, sound of the voice of the person o ... (show full quote)

Actually, that does happen. There are certain areas and times of day that the firefighters will not go to due to increased risk to their own security. But other than that, they again are employees and should do what the employer wants.
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jostein
post 6.Feb.2013, 08:51 AM
Post #26
Joined: 22.Mar.2011

QUOTE (SergioSver @ 6.Feb.2013, 07:11 AM) *
So much so. I agree, I would even propose to take this argument a bit further. For instance, why you should not be allowed to decide as an owner of the store who should be al ... (show full quote)

Indeed. The difference of a market economy against a planned economy is that free choice is used instead of coercion. Citizens should be allowed to make what contracts they will with other citizens.

Take for example the finding that most car-rentals report they have no cars to let when people of a certain minority come calling. Why should they not be able to do this openly? If they have bad experiences they should be allowed to act on them. If you force people to act "tolerant" to the detriment of their livelihoods, do you think that will create tolerance? In a marketeconomy a bigot should be punished by reality, not by the state. Ie, his discriminatory practices nets him less revenue and his competitor across the street who is openminded and tolerant can outcompete him and eventually buy his store and thus spread tolerance. If indeed, tolerance is valuable to its practicioners. If tolerance is only valuable to YOUR and detrimental to the ones you demand it from then it is just a way of stealing other peoples money with the help of the law.
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skogsbo
post 6.Feb.2013, 09:00 AM
Post #27
Joined: 20.Sep.2011

Discrimination can in some cases be the businesses choice, but not public services.
There are many pubs in the UK that won't serve people in football colours, or shirts. Many motorway service stations don't want football coaches etc. It's their choice, its their business.
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John.Smith
post 6.Feb.2013, 09:15 AM
Post #28
Location: Sweden
Joined: 12.Sep.2011

Part of the issue is that it is so damn hard to fire someone here in Sweden that employers are not willing to take the risk of employing someone with an unknown background, education, language skills etc...

The employment laws created to protect the workforce actually work negatively for non-Swedes in some cases.

I would not call the referenced 'study' proof of discrimination, but rather proof of risk limitation. If workers could be easily fired for non-performance or non-suitability at an early stage then one may find the jobs market more accessible for non-Swedes.

This is not a Swedish thing either. All countries will have the same behaviour in times of economic slow down. I would pick the Swede over the Romanian simply because it would be easier and less hassle with regards to 'fitting in' in the workplace.
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Kn33grow
post 6.Feb.2013, 09:53 AM
Post #29
Joined: 13.Aug.2012

This is just another proof of the nepotism deeply rooted in Swedish mentality and nothing to be surprised about.

The surprising thing to me is the hypocrites who admit to the existence of such nepotism and the problems faced by immigrants in finding jobs while still complaining about how immigrants are parasites and so on and so forth.

There can never be two ways about this,its either you provide equal opportunities to the people you are importing and see them become useful to society OR just discriminate on them and let them drain the public coffers so you can have something to complain about.
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Yorkshireman
post 6.Feb.2013, 10:25 AM
Post #30
Joined: 22.Nov.2011

QUOTE (Kn33grow @ 6.Feb.2013, 09:53 AM) *
This is just another proof of the nepotism deeply rooted in Swedish mentality and nothing to be surprised about.

And of-course the 58.000 work permits issued since 2008 that were issued to non-EU workers is proof of that nepotism! rolleyes.gif
QUOTE (Kn33grow @ 6.Feb.2013, 09:53 AM) *
There can never be two ways about this,its either you provide equal opportunities to the people you are importing and see them become useful to society OR just discriminate on ... (show full quote)

So this equal opportunities, and earlier mentioned freedom of choice, should not be extended to employers, or even managers that are measured by the people they bring into their teams? ohmy.gif ...and let's not forget that there are a large number of non-nationals already working in Sweden ...there is a high probability that the rejections are also coming from them, not just against them!... Employment is a personal choice of the one doing the recruiting, and sometimes it even comes down to personal attributes as a decider.

Look at it from a different perspective ... the number of threads that start on this forum that state quite strong negative opinions about Sweden and it's population ... show that the employers have good reason to believe We (immigrants) wouldn't fit into the work-place, nor be able to deal with the Swedish customers and suppliers correctly! ohmy.gif
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