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why do swedes and finns hate each other so much?

justagirl
post 22.Apr.2007, 05:54 PM
Post #31
Joined: 5.Apr.2007

Pass the knäckebröd, please. smile.gif
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Zill
post 22.Apr.2007, 06:29 PM
Post #32
Joined: 11.Sep.2005

QUOTE (Mumintrollet)
Utter nonsense that some Finns are ashamed of their Finnish language. Swedish is also an official language in Finland and finlandssvenskar feel no less Finnish than a Finn who has Finnish as their mother tongue. They do not speak Swedish because they are "ashamed" of Finnish.

Finland does not strive to be just like Sweden either; comments like this are why the Finns, Norwegians and Danes perceive the Swedes to have some kind of superiority complex within Norden. It's only natural that there are many similarities between all the Nordic countries. It is not all one way. For instance, the Swedish government recently investigated the Finnish education system as a possible model for reform of the Swedish schooling system. Sweden's school system is ridden with discipline problems that do not exist in Finland. Finnish school children (of both national languages) also perform significantly better than Swedish ones.

I do not think there is any real hatred between Finns and Swedes. There is a genuine friendly rivalry, particularly in sports. Finns have their stereotypes of the Swedes (e.g. ifeminate Swedish men, obsessed with safety, unable to make a quick decision without a committee meeting etc) just as the Swedes have of the Finns (drunken knife fighters). They both like to make jokes about each other. But this is probably due to the closeness of the relationship rather than any hatred.

I agree with all of the above.

For a U.S. perspective on the Finland generally (and the Finnish education system), read this on the Washington Post Web site.

I think I have mentioned here before that the Finnish legal system (including what in the U.S. is called "common law") is based on the Swedish system, even though Finland has not been part of Sweden for nearly 200 years - this survived Finland being a part of the Czarist Russian empire for over a century.
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007
post 22.Apr.2007, 07:07 PM
Post #33
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 2.Apr.2006

as i understand it, there are leftovers of a class issue. back in the day, the swedes--who became the finnlandssvenska (or whatever the spelling) were the "lords, counts--nobility" of the land.

there was a bit of that superiority smugness to swedish-speaking finns and along with smug superiority comes dislike from the general population. human nature.

swedish-speaking finns who feel it is "lower class" to speak finnish are most likely rather insecure people who grasp desperately at something to make them feel bigger than they are.

dr. seusse and the star-bellied sneeches comes to mind. laugh.gif
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justagirl
post 22.Apr.2007, 08:20 PM
Post #34
Joined: 5.Apr.2007

Like when Queen E. met Kate Middleton's mum. Kate's mum had the very poor manners to say, 'Pleased to meet you.' Right there the Queen knew who she was dealing with...and we know what happened to Kate. Dropped like a bad habit. That's class for you!
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Ems
post 22.Apr.2007, 08:32 PM
Post #35
Joined: 9.Dec.2005

I didn't use to like the Finnish language when I was younger, but I love it now. I just wish I could listen to it more often.
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Mzungu
post 22.Apr.2007, 09:01 PM
Post #36
Location: South Africa
Joined: 29.Aug.2004

There ya go! :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T4jrYpo2m4
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periksson
post 22.Apr.2007, 09:44 PM
Post #37
Joined: 10.Jan.2007

QUOTE (Mzungu)
Not in the sauna though,it becomes very soggy.


Don't you mean bastu?
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Coalbanks
post 22.Apr.2007, 10:57 PM
Post #38
Joined: 16.Jun.2006

After much research the 2 most likely reasons are:
1) They resent always being mistaken for the other ( who wouldn't?) by people who are not Swedes or Finns, evan by Estonians, Danes & Norwegians, well maybe the last is understandable. laugh.gif
2) For the same well-known reasons too numerous & obvious to go into here, that everyone else hates both of them! laugh.gif :wink:
Actually I have liked most Swedes that I have met, likewise the Finns, but the Danes & Norwegians were Great! Although the Norwegian guys can be snarky, esp when drunk & since half are generally drunk & rarely sober..., and the sober ones are religious wackos... The Swedes actually look good comparatively but the Finns...! :roll: :wink: laugh.gif :cry:
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Coalbanks
post 22.Apr.2007, 11:00 PM
Post #39
Joined: 16.Jun.2006

QUOTE (justagirl)
Just mind the stickers and you'll be okay. :wink:


Stickers? PRICKS, is the correct term! :wink:
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Karhu
post 23.Apr.2007, 08:14 AM
Post #40
Joined: 15.Nov.2006

First let me make it clear..
I am not a Finn and I am not a Swede.

I lived in Sweden before I moved to Finland.
I can handle both languages but have rarely needed to speak Swedish..even when I lived there and worked for a Swedish company.

There is no hate or even dislike of Swedes by 99% of Finns.
(We have a few nut cases who dont like any foreigners).

There is a lot of banter, in both directions.

(It will start again come the Ice Hockey world championships):

There is however some degree of resentment from some Finns about preferential treatment, and too frequent reference to "vi bättre folk" by SOME Swedish Finns..this resentment sometimes spills over onto Sweden and real Swedes in general.

A few facts.

In Finland once one moves away from Helsinki..communication used to be a problem, if you dont speak Finnish...it is rapidly improving, nowdays most youngsters like to speak(practice) English...
EXCEPT in the SW or Åland, where if you dont speak Swedish communication can be a problem. English is not accepted as an alternative by many.

There are many Finns in these areas who cannot speak Finnish and refuse to attempt it.
When these "folk" visit the capital (or any big town) in "their country" they get very angry and complain bitterly (and officialy) if for instance a shop assistant cannot speak Swedish..English is not accepted as an alternative by these "folk".

Until only a few years ago if a Finnish child could not pass the final exam in Swedish at the equivalent of gymnasieskola in Finland, it was not possible to gain entry to a University.
Very recent legislation changed that...but...
It is still in the Finnish legislation that one must speak Swedish to work in any government offices.


In Sweden the anti Finnish feelings (other than at Ice Hockey) probably stems from the Few Junti (Straw Heads) who travel on the booze cruises.
Or take their summer holidays in Rhodes...

Most Finns wish Viking line and the Rhodes Island council would find a way to isolate these idiots in their own part of the ship and their own part of Greece..The majority of educated Finns would like to Pull the plugs out and let them vanish.
Perhaps you can think of a few Swedes that would qualify to join them?
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Mumintrollet
post 23.Apr.2007, 11:46 AM
Post #41
Joined: 9.Sep.2005

QUOTE (007)
as i understand it, there are leftovers of a class issue. back in the day, the swedes--who became the finnlandssvenska (or whatever the spelling) were the "lords, counts--nobility" of the land.

there was a bit of that superiority smugness to swedish-speaking finns and along with smug superiority comes dislike from the general population. human nature.

swedish-speaking finns who feel it is "lower class" to speak finnish are most likely rather insecure people who grasp desperately at something to make them feel bigger than they are.

dr. seusse and the star-bellied sneeches comes to mind. laugh.gif

I am afraid your understanding is flawed and marked by the influence of a the view of a small minority of Finnish-speaking Finns who refer to finlandssvenskarna as the "bättre folk" sarcastically. It is true that you will find some smug people in e.g. Grankulla (Helsinki's equivalent of Danderyd), they are mainly smug because they are rich snobs rather than being Swedish-speakers, and attract jokes from other Swedish-speakers as well as Finnish speakers. The Finnish inhabitants of the said town are often just the same, but being in the majority their smugness is not so apparent when they mix with the rest.

The important thing to state is, that the finlandssvenskar are absolutely not a leftover from a class issue in the past. The vast majority of them have their origins in farmers/fisherman/boatbuilders etc, not rich bourgeoisie overclass administrators as is often mistakenly portrayed.

It is very frustrating for finlandssvenskar that even the Swedes (rikssvenskar) have a poor understanding of them. In fact, it always astounds me to find out how few have even heard that they exist. You would think that speaking a language as small (in a global context) as Swedish, Swedes would be naturally drawn with interest to a group who share the same mother-tongue. Alas, many Sweden Swedes seem to think that finlandssvenska is infact just the way Swedish sounds when it is spoken by a Finnish person with Finnish as their mother tongue (Finnish mother tongue speakers sometimes have problems with certain sounds in Swedish because they don't exist in Finnish; the the word "kanske" (perhaps) is a good example of the sound that is sometimes problematic). Finlandssvenska (as spoken by mother tongue speakers) is infact just a distinct dialect of Swedish, as much as norrländska or skånska.
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007
post 23.Apr.2007, 12:40 PM
Post #42
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 2.Apr.2006

QUOTE (Mumintrollet)
QUOTE (007)
as i understand it, there are leftovers of a class issue. back in the day, the swedes--who became the finnlandssvenska (or whatever the spelling) were the "lords, counts--nobility" of the land.

there was a bit of that superiority smugness to swedish-speaking finns and along with smug superiority comes dislike from the general population. human nature.

swedish-speaking finns who feel it is "lower class" to speak finnish are most likely rather insecure people who grasp desperately at something to make them feel bigger than they are.

dr. seusse and the star-bellied sneeches comes to mind. laugh.gif

I am afraid your understanding is flawed and marked by the influence of a the view of a small minority of Finnish-speaking Finns who refer to finlandssvenskarna as the "bättre folk" sarcastically.


i'm afraid your assumption is flawed. ;-)
my understanding is likely inaccurate, but it comes from speaking with swedes and finns (both sorts) now living in sweden.

QUOTE (Mumintrollet)
The important thing to state is, that the finlandssvenskar are absolutely not a leftover from a class issue in the past. The vast majority of them have their origins in farmers/fisherman/boatbuilders etc, not rich bourgeoisie overclass administrators as is often mistakenly portrayed.


thank you for calling that to our attention. my statement intends to draw more on the perception by swedes than the facts of who the ancestors of today's finnlandssvenskar are/were.

finland was ruled by the swedish nobility so i'd imagine the fish-monger descendants snobs of today are going to try to link with the nobility.

personally, i've never felt nor heard of nor felt any bad feelings between the two nationalities.
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Mr-a
post 23.Apr.2007, 02:43 PM
Post #43
Joined: 20.Apr.2007

OK, so I am a Finnish-speaking Finn and I would be interested to know where the person who put the question here got her information. Nobody hates Swedes. Sure I will lift my left eyebrow when I hear how arrogant some Swedes are, but my reaction is miles from "hate".

I remember well when I talked to a Swedish woman somewhere in Portugal.

She: "I have been to Finland. I took a Silja cruise and we had such fun watching the Finns. God they are so ugly."
Me: "Really. That is interesting."
She: "No no no no. I didn´t mean you. You don´t look like a typical Finn."
Me: "Really? I didn´t know that, I have always thought that I look quite typical."

[/quote] I must say that I think that it's one of the ugliest languages I've ever heard, and I don't like how some finns act as if Sweden rule them, some of them are ashamed over their language and see it as if they've got good class if they speak swedish instead,
QUOTE
That stebro´s comment just shows how little Swedes know about Finland. He obviously didn´t know that those people speak Swedish because Swedish is their native language, not Finnish. And Finnish-speaking people being ashaimed of their language? Nothing could be further from truth. We LOVE our language, often quite passionately. It is beautiful, it is rich, it is colourful, it is full of nyances. I accept that some foregner doesn´t like it, but ugly? How can a language that uses more vowels than any Indo-European language (Italian included) be ugly?

There is a finlandsvensk poet named Tommy Taberman, who uses Swedish at home, but writes his poems in Finnish because according to himn it is "better suited for poetry".
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Mumintrollet
post 23.Apr.2007, 04:05 PM
Post #44
Joined: 9.Sep.2005

QUOTE (007)
finland was ruled by the swedish nobility so i'd imagine the fish-monger descendants snobs of today are going to try to link with the nobility.

Absolutely not. If finlandssvenskarna were to do this, that would infer association with Sweden Swedes. Finlandssvenskarna are just as Finnish as Finnish people who have Finnish as their mother tongue. They are quite willing to joke about the Swedes in the same way as the rest of the Finns... but not in a hatefull way, as we previously discussed. Would you really say that Swedes hate Norwegians and that is why they tell jokes about them?

It's important to also note, that not all finlandssvenskar are descended from people who originated in Sweeden. Some are from people who migrated to Finland during the time that Swedish was the prominent language of government/commerce and therefore learnt Swedish not Finnish (quite a lot of German and Dutch traders moved to Finland). Others are of Finnish speaking Finns who during the same period decided to bring their children up as Swedish speakers thinking it would help them "progress" in society.

Remember, in the Swedish language there is a distinction between the words finländare/finnar. It doesn't exist in English and even in Sweden it is occasionally forgotten (especially by sports commentators on tv/radio) much to the frustration of finlandssvenskar who are excluded by the term finnar (Finns with Finnish as their mother tongue). Finländare = "Finlander" i.e. all Finnish people regardless of mother tongue (=English "Finns".).

By the way, I totally understand why you express the opinions you do.. quite understandable if you have been amongst some of the less informed/over stereotype bound in Sweden on these matters. Additionally, there isn't really that much available information in English.
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007
post 23.Apr.2007, 06:12 PM
Post #45
Location: Stockholm
Joined: 2.Apr.2006

QUOTE (Mumintrollet)
By the way, I totally understand why you express the opinions you do.. quite understandable if you have been amongst some of the less informed/over stereotype bound in Sweden on these matters. Additionally, there isn't really that much available information in English.


i agree that's it's very difficult to find out information. i have only very informally asked people questions to hear their answers. my conclusion is that very few know anything and they are ready to admit that themselves.

any other opinion i express is a mix of what i've gathered and a bit of history i've picked up here and there--so far from researched and knowledgeable.

it's good someone has more of a clue biggrin.gif
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