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'Stop discrimination of foreign doctoral candidates'
Sweden needs to do more to ensure foreign doctoral candidates are offered equal working conditions by the country's colleges and universities, argue students' rights advocates Martin Dackling and Lars Abrahamsson.
Published: 04 Jan 2010 11:58 CET
Sweden needs to do more to ensure foreign doctoral candidates are offered equal working conditions by the country's colleges and universities, argue students' rights advocates Martin Dackling and Lars Abrahamsson.
On December 9th, the investigative TV programme Uppdrag Granskning raised the issue of the poor conditions often faced by foreign doctoral candidates in Sweden and the negative special treatment they receive at the majority of Swedish institutions of higher education.
A level of financial compensation that often may seem reasonable at home in Pakistan, China or Iran is in fact nothing of the sort in Sweden; this is something doctoral candidates are not made sufficiently aware of in advance. And even if these individuals were aware of the high cost of living or our social insurance system, it is still unacceptable that we use them as cheap labour to perform tasks that are important for us. As scholarship holders, for example, they are not entitled to make use of general benefits such as health insurance, parental insurance, unemployment insurance or pension insurance.
There seems to be a widespread attitude that the responsibility lies with the individual doctoral candidates. An example of how this view manifests itself is when a government agency like the Swedish Institute shirks its responsibility as a coordinator, believing that if an individual accepts financing of €900 a month then that's their own problem. Disowning the problem, and arguing that if "we" don't take candidates at the lowest price then somebody else will, is both inhumane and irresponsible.
We have long attempted to elevate the issues regarding the poor conditions of foreign doctoral candidates in order to create a national debate. We do not of course take a negative view of foreign doctoral candidates, a view clumsily ascribed to us on the editorial page of Dagens Nyheter in November. On the contrary, foreign doctoral candidates constitute a very important resource for both Swedish research programmes and Swedish research in general.
It is with this in mind that we consider them deserving of the same treatment as their Swedish counterparts, both in terms of remuneration and social security. Research programmes are more than just programmes; they also make up a large part of the core operations of educational institutions, given that doctoral candidates currently account for about 40 percent of all research at our institutes of higher learning.
For two people performing the same tasks at the same workplace to be treated differently for no other reason than their respective citizenship is as wrong at a Swedish college as it as at a Swedish building site. It is difficult not to be angered by a state of affairs in which the differences are so great that the disadvantaged party finds it difficult to survive in Sweden on the amount received, while also having to remain outside the social insurance system.
In many cases, the doctoral candidates are contractually obliged to return to their home countries upon qualification, as well as having their democratic rights restricted, a point we have written about previously: (Sydsvenskan, 28/9/09, in Swedish). It’s also probable that we can only see the tip of the iceberg. In many cases, universities and colleges fail to sufficiently monitor their doctoral candidates, many of whom are fearful of raising criticisms, not least because they tend to be in a position of dependence towards supervisors.
It’s impossible to avoid the fact that institutions of higher learning bear a lot of responsibility for their doctoral candidates and, as such, it is remarkable that a number of institutions do not have any control over the financing of their candidates. This does not tally well with regulations laying out the responsibilities to be borne by universities and colleges vis à vis their doctoral candidates. Several institutions have put in place minimum levels to be paid upon acceptance of doctoral candidates in order to guarantee them a certain level of remuneration.
But the institutions do not always abide by their own internal rules and there are signs that these minimum levels are about to be reduced at a number of seats of learning. In a report from the Swedish National Agency for Higher Education (Högskoleverket), it emerged that some institutions are mulling a reduction in their minimum levels for the express purpose of bringing in more foreign doctoral candidates. It is however also worth noting that some institutions offer partial financing for their underfinanced doctoral candidates in a bid to bring their pay up to a level more in parity with the doctoral wage.
Foreign doctoral candidates constitute a vital addition to Swedish research programmes and research, but strong action is needed to counter the treatment to which many of them are subjected. Let this then form the starting point for a lively and constructive debate.
To this end, there are a number of questions that need to be raised: Are we, in the long term, scaring off researchers who feel they are being treated as inferiors? What is the image of Sweden that we wish to communicate? What are the conditions we are prepared to accept? And, what grades are our colleges and universities receiving abroad? It is our firm hope that such a discussion will lead to a point where the heads of Sweden’s seats of learning implement strong measures guaranteeing employment for all doctoral candidates. If the institutions of learning do not share this ambition, we hope the minister for higher education and research will prove considerably more decisive.
Lars Abrahamsson, Chairman, doctoral candidates committee of the Swedish Association of University Teachers (SULF)
Martin Dackling, Chairman, doctoral candidates committee of the Swedish National Union of Students
On December 9th, the investigative TV programme Uppdrag Granskning raised the issue of the poor conditions often faced by foreign doctoral candidates in Sweden and the negative special treatment they receive at the majority of Swedish institutions of higher education.
A level of financial compensation that often may seem reasonable at home in Pakistan, China or Iran is in fact nothing of the sort in Sweden; this is something doctoral candidates are not made sufficiently aware of in advance. And even if these individuals were aware of the high cost of living or our social insurance system, it is still unacceptable that we use them as cheap labour to perform tasks that are important for us. As scholarship holders, for example, they are not entitled to make use of general benefits such as health insurance, parental insurance, unemployment insurance or pension insurance.
There seems to be a widespread attitude that the responsibility lies with the individual doctoral candidates. An example of how this view manifests itself is when a government agency like the Swedish Institute shirks its responsibility as a coordinator, believing that if an individual accepts financing of €900 a month then that's their own problem. Disowning the problem, and arguing that if "we" don't take candidates at the lowest price then somebody else will, is both inhumane and irresponsible.
We have long attempted to elevate the issues regarding the poor conditions of foreign doctoral candidates in order to create a national debate. We do not of course take a negative view of foreign doctoral candidates, a view clumsily ascribed to us on the editorial page of Dagens Nyheter in November. On the contrary, foreign doctoral candidates constitute a very important resource for both Swedish research programmes and Swedish research in general.
It is with this in mind that we consider them deserving of the same treatment as their Swedish counterparts, both in terms of remuneration and social security. Research programmes are more than just programmes; they also make up a large part of the core operations of educational institutions, given that doctoral candidates currently account for about 40 percent of all research at our institutes of higher learning.
For two people performing the same tasks at the same workplace to be treated differently for no other reason than their respective citizenship is as wrong at a Swedish college as it as at a Swedish building site. It is difficult not to be angered by a state of affairs in which the differences are so great that the disadvantaged party finds it difficult to survive in Sweden on the amount received, while also having to remain outside the social insurance system.
In many cases, the doctoral candidates are contractually obliged to return to their home countries upon qualification, as well as having their democratic rights restricted, a point we have written about previously: (Sydsvenskan, 28/9/09, in Swedish). It’s also probable that we can only see the tip of the iceberg. In many cases, universities and colleges fail to sufficiently monitor their doctoral candidates, many of whom are fearful of raising criticisms, not least because they tend to be in a position of dependence towards supervisors.
It’s impossible to avoid the fact that institutions of higher learning bear a lot of responsibility for their doctoral candidates and, as such, it is remarkable that a number of institutions do not have any control over the financing of their candidates. This does not tally well with regulations laying out the responsibilities to be borne by universities and colleges vis à vis their doctoral candidates. Several institutions have put in place minimum levels to be paid upon acceptance of doctoral candidates in order to guarantee them a certain level of remuneration.
But the institutions do not always abide by their own internal rules and there are signs that these minimum levels are about to be reduced at a number of seats of learning. In a report from the Swedish National Agency for Higher Education (Högskoleverket), it emerged that some institutions are mulling a reduction in their minimum levels for the express purpose of bringing in more foreign doctoral candidates. It is however also worth noting that some institutions offer partial financing for their underfinanced doctoral candidates in a bid to bring their pay up to a level more in parity with the doctoral wage.
Foreign doctoral candidates constitute a vital addition to Swedish research programmes and research, but strong action is needed to counter the treatment to which many of them are subjected. Let this then form the starting point for a lively and constructive debate.
To this end, there are a number of questions that need to be raised: Are we, in the long term, scaring off researchers who feel they are being treated as inferiors? What is the image of Sweden that we wish to communicate? What are the conditions we are prepared to accept? And, what grades are our colleges and universities receiving abroad? It is our firm hope that such a discussion will lead to a point where the heads of Sweden’s seats of learning implement strong measures guaranteeing employment for all doctoral candidates. If the institutions of learning do not share this ambition, we hope the minister for higher education and research will prove considerably more decisive.
Lars Abrahamsson, Chairman, doctoral candidates committee of the Swedish Association of University Teachers (SULF)
Martin Dackling, Chairman, doctoral candidates committee of the Swedish National Union of Students
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However, I believe most of guys, who apply for doctoral in here are higher meddle class in there own countries, but not so high to apply for education in US.
The fact is that seldom people from developing countries apply for higher education in Sweden; and they, who apply for Sweden with this payment must have some good reasons to come here!
Do you have any 'foreign' members on your doctoral candidates committee?
Or is 'Svenssons'ness also a prerequisite there....With all due respect.
I think that situation for PhDs is different than for other students - in Sweden the PhDs are much more junior lecturers than students. In many departments the PhDs carry the bulk of undergraduate teaching and even supervise bachelor and masters dissertations. Many PhDs spent the first year or 2 on stipends but for Swedish students there is a minimum of around 15K per month - whereas there are stories of overseas students on less than half of this and in some cases - nothing.
There should be some level of equality. Most Swedish financed PhDs with a doctorand post are on the university payroll and receive upwards of 20K kronor per month and are eligible for sick pay, parental benefits and paid holidays. The PhDs of overseas stipends get none of this despite doing the same job and often don't get paid for teaching.
I think that it is up to the departments to supervise this much more closely and take the issues more seriously. We have all heard about those professors who lie to oversees students to basically get them to come to Sweden and act as unpaid researchers often with the 'promise' of a place on the PhD programme that somehow never occurs. Then these student are shipped home when they start asking questions and a new batch are shipped in - noone ever gets a full PhD
The government outlawed the so-called 'shadow PhDs' (Skuggdoktorands) several years ago - but some institutions just ignore the rules
Local, is this wording more acceptable, or is the truth about the unskilled occupations of many new Swedes discriminatory?
First of all you should solve the ambiguity about employment status of foreign doctoral
students i.e. it is not sufficient just 'skatteverket' consider us as employees but we must be considered as employees even by 'migrationsverket' also.....(hope both verkets work according to Swedish Law)..it will enable us some resident rights in sweden...........
Secondly : a monitoring committee must be arranged to look into the irregularities in decisions taken by most of the swedish professors concerning foreign students.....especially delay in fixing thesis presentation date, salary hikes, putting extra(unnecessary) requirements for courses/research compare to swedes,etc. These are small issues but this is the source of problem ...
most swedish professors considers foreigners as 'soft target' as they don't have enough rights in sweden to live and cannot go against them legally...
Can anybody tell me why such things are happening in Sweden Universities/ Research Departments. Because all the projects are fully funded by different renowned companies. And where is this money (the actual amount which supervisors do not paid to foreigners researchers) going?? Is it totally going to Supervisors bank account? Is this is not the corruption? Does the Swedish government is aware of this corruption? If yes than would they bother to take action on this issue ??
home students are favored ahead of more competent fellas from elsewhere usually on the pretense that foreign applicants are insufficient in spoken and written swedish (meanwhile, they publish their research findings in english and study literature written in english). yet, and quite bizarrely, more and more undergraduate programmes are floated in english without the corresponding zeal to absorb deserving students to doctoral programmes.
guess who is being fooled? the foreign students or swedes? i'd say the latter. i strongly feel that this is a debasement of swedish academia. we have dashed the hopes of many a student who come to sweden for the magisterin the hope of clinching a doctoral spot only to be disappointed in the long run. i will post the experiences of five doctoral students later on to buttress my point. i'm glad that this is up for debate.
However in others a few professors with big research grants dominate. Often contracts are not formalised and PhD teaching and administrative work is not paid according to the regulations and some students are totally dependent on their supervisor which means they dare not complain. However universities will often not act to ensure that rules are enforced because these professors are huge cash cows.
However PhDs can help themselve - many places have active PhD associations or ombudsmen or PhDs can join one of the University unions - however many of the foreign PhDs don't realise that thse exist as neither department/professors inform them.
The problem with Sweden is not the fact that Swedish Institute accept foreign students whom sign a contract saying that they must return to their home country, but that migrationsverket need to develop a good immigration program to attract highly skilled immigrants, instead of non-educated ones. So that these foreign students who have studied in Sweden can have a good chance to come back to Sweden again after they have returned to their home country and worked off their 3 years debt to their government. Afterall, they are in debt to their government, because the government is spending 8000 kr to get them educated here in Sweden, while to have them educated in their home country would probably cost only about 500 kr a month.
And do Swedes really think that giving foreign students 20k a month would drastically improve their living standards? That just shows their ignorance to the actual situation of people from developing nations. No matter if you give them 8k or 20k, most of them will still live in the cheapest apartment you can possibly find, and buy their groceries and cloth only when it is on sale. Why? Because they need to save money to be able to send them to all their relatives back home and help them buy houses and apartments and get married and get educated and so on.
Second of all, the Swedes still seem to be completely unaware of why foreign doctoral students feel miserable here in Sweden. Yes, you here horror stories regarding discrimination some times, but I believe that the majority of Swedish professors are just human and not always demon-like. But the main problem is the feeling of not having a future. You spend your four years here in Sweden, working your ass off for your Swedish professor and obtaining a Swedish PhD degree, then what? You return to your home country and people are like: "Oh, so you studied in Sweden? The chocolate and watches are nice there... " and "Uppsala University? Never heard of it, where the hell is that? " And you start thinking: "At least I have my papers, skills and knowledge to prove that my Swedish education was worth something." But how much did you really learn? You have basically been trying to prove your bosses hypothesis in the lab for 4 years, and you only had limited scientific discussion with your professors and colleges due to your "poor language", how much about science did you actually learn? And even Swedish students are working as lab assistants for their professors, why should foreign students expect to be treated any better and learn more? Then you start looking at your former classmates. The ones who didn't go aboard now have established a complex complex network back home and are doing great, while you due to your absence, don't know anyone and feel completely confused. The ones who went to USA, people are like: "Wow, Cornell, Ivy league, great university! You must deserve a big salary." Everyone seems to be doing better than you ...
So the point is that, Sweden needs to improve its education quality for foreign students to feel meaningful here, which I believe would make them much less miserable. Being able to buy cloth for 2000kr a months doesn't make a person happier at all, but giving them a future will, a bright future in their home country. People are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars a year in tuition to study in USA, even if they have to pay the sum themselves and live in basements and work for McDonalds during their free time. Will they be willing to do the same for a Swedish education? One can wonder. And Sweden also needs a better immigration policy, and give people who has a Swedish education chances to a future here in Sweden, preferably a future without an invisible "glass ceiling", which is another big problem with the Swedish academia, one much bigger than discrimination of foreign doctoral students.
Separate park benches.
'Segregated' restaurants, schools, etc
- were all once the norm.
Saddening there is all these efforts spent on 'rebranding' / 'repackaging' / 'renaming' of blatant racism. This new form of DIGITAL/ BIO METRIC racism is no different.
I have a friend who recently suffered a bad faith from one of such faceless academics,despite the fact that my friend enjoys a bountiful research grants from her home institution and recently a grant from a globally rated organization this professor want to have a share!!!
I thought he was kidding back then... I swear somedays its like living in a 'Free Masons' utopia. Secret handshakes the absolute norm.
But change is evitable (we all pray).
Obviously there is a problem in your home country if they have never heard of Uppsala University - or is it just an anglo-centric fixation?
In international University rankings Uppsala is:
- a top 100 school in the world
- a top 15 school in Europe
and it's free
If so it's just another nail in the head of the Swedish economy .. Out of control Unions ruined the car industry in Sweden .
Let's not let Unions ruin Swedish research too. As @puffin points out Swedsih Universities are among the best in the world now do you want to ruin them too by making their cost structure uncompetitive?
Investment wise the punitive taxes and perhaps such discriminatory practices like that this article highlights (AND OTHERS) are not helping with the Swedish image abroad, and its all starting to haemorrhage BADLY.
Can you really blame everyone going to India and other emerging economies where foreign investment is the buzz word. It seems foreign anything is actively and aggressively discouraged here.....And in a 'kharma' kind of way, the foreign world has aggressively and actively taken your IKEA's and killed off your SAAB,Volvo's etc...next stop the uni's.
Food for thought.
Shouldn't they know the cost of living here is considerably higher? Thats pretty common knowledge for people who know the slightest thing about the world; Scandinavia=rich and expensive.
If you're thinking of moving here you should do some research and really learn how much things cost.
The universities are clearly SMARTER! ...and have been doing it unchallenged so long, they have got GOOD at this practice.
Its a scandal pure and simple. There is no justification for the disparity in pay difference between people doing the same job come on. The whole idea that foreigners are here to clean your toilets (and its their own fault) is an appalling attitude.
Everybody knows in Sweden, that the faecal (crap) end of the stick is held by people from abroad NO QUESTION.Whilst the all the better opportunities are an exclusive reserve for the very specifically Swedish.
To any observer, its NO coincidence but design! I assure you not ignorance on the part of the army of toilet cleaners here .
Test it yourself.
1. Who cleans your toilets at work (and if you are a university professor, cleans your home toilets too)?
2. And who is the boss or your boss?
This 'BOSSES' vs 'TOILET CLEANERS' spectrum ,it is pretty clear, there is something SO fishy going on sorry.
Its not even good enough to be Swedish actually, it is equally important to look it too complete with a 'Sven'sson' after name to FULLY qualify. This kind of misguided national 'pride' will destroy this beautiful country I fear, 'PRIDE comes before a fall' ....ALWAYS.
The cleaners at my university are mostly Swedes actually. I can't recall meeting a foreign one. Certainly not a visibly foreign one (I don't make a habit of talking to every cleaner I see).
I think you're missing my point a bit. The universities are in the wrong, I fully agree, however the foreign students concerned are being rather dumb to allow themselves to be treat this way. Its not like they come expecting good pay then the university changes their mind now they're trapped in Sweden. They have the offer and all the details available to them before they leave home, they should be able to research and find out how good it really is and if its bad just not take it.
Discrimination is one of the most misused words by the media and differences in compensation do not necessarily imply discrimination.
"Discrimination is one of the most misused words by the media and differences in compensation do not necessarily imply discrimination."
Only when you have never experienced it, is it difficult to fathom what all the fuss is about. Count yourself lucky to be on the right side of the fence.
@kaze I am not having a go at you.
But I have NOT got my head buried in the sand, the facts are obvious on a 2 tier society if you ever did speak to those people.
Universities seemingly aspire to the same ideals of 2 tier systems. I think it is sad.
I HAVE taken the time to speak to cleaners (office/restaurant/toilet whatever). And found that this is mostly to be the preserve of the 'foreign' dim wits as society would like to believe.
My own 1st experience of Sweden was a lecturer telling me this very thing. I have asked and asked and asked whenever I met someone I thought may disprove my earlier lecturer and I have encountered pharmacists, chemists, mathematicians, dentists pushing cleaning trolleys ALL foreigners.
Its convenient to believe it is their OWN FAULT they are doing that.
Where are all the success stories of 'foreigners' who have aspired beyond this glass ceiling you refuse to acknowledge as discriminatory.
I know in the UK for example the owner of Harrods is Egyptian.
Other captains of industry; American, Saudi, French, Nigerians even.
There is also LAKSHMI MITTAL global steel mogul UK he is Indian.
Tell me WHO in Sweden breaks the mould of heavy weights of power. Everyone who is something is from the same demographic group. You dont think that is weird?
There is no need to label park benches here as they did BACK IN THE DAY figuratively speaking. Nah. There is attitudes and rules that are so finely tuned and amplified by all sorts of digital means just to facilitate selection and recompense so you have to file in line for cleaning, pig husbandry jobs etc. And that is what is happening with doctorate associates pure and simple an expression of the same dynamic of the society.
Sweden should be viewed as a stepping stone for a year or two in the intellectual development process of a foreign post doc, not a long term affair.
Hey professor,I am the education minister for the EU....
"Sweden needs to do more to ensure foreign doctoral candidates are offered equal working conditions by the country's colleges and universities"...IS the debate.
You are WAY WAY off topic.
Your debate on taxation being high in Sweden because God darn 'foreign' doctoral candidates are bleeding the country dry is a debate for another day. April 1st.
You don't have to stay in Sweden, if you don't like it and think you're discriminated against then go home, the Swedes are under no obligation to treat someone with inferior skills (for what they want) and who doesn't speak their language or understand their culture as a equal.
I'm a foreigner, I've had trouble in Sweden too due to being foreign. I'm not getting too worked up about it, I don't have to stay here, I'm leaving once I've finished university. There are plenty of other countries out there.
If Sweden doesn't want to open up to foreigners to the extent countries like Britain have then thats their loss, take yourself elsewhere.
House. Married. Self employed. Child
Forgive me for defending the defenceless.
Even if I can convince one person, I think I have done a service to some of these clever guys who find hemselves minding pigs in Sweden, whilst everybody else looks on and thinks; they deserve that for not reading the small print of how Sweden treats non indegenous academics.
Some question what image it gives of Sweden today. Well, is this how they are treated, who come here freely, who have a choice a case in point? Sweden is full of foreigners that are being mistreated constantly, to a point way beyond what any normal person would call abuse. There appear to be no one out there that care about it. If you want to make the case that Swedes were racist, what other evidence would you need?
I think these people probably get a very accurate and very telling experience of what Sweden and Swedes are like. I think they come with an open mind and leave with a very real and true picture of Sweden.
The Swedes have to ask themselves: if Sweden offered a competitive tax regime, if opportunities after graduation or post doctoral studies were great, then why would they leave? Since they are leaving, what is wrong with Sweden?
If you would like to support a new party trying to address these problems, please contact me at your earliest convenience.
TA
But yes. I am human enough to feel for someone who is less fortunate.
There was a futile attempt at sensitising the subject here with the emotive issue of taxation in Sweden which made no sense at all earlier but to band wagon silly sentiments of 'them' vs 'us'.. Scroungers was her her 'tongue in cheek' ascertion.
Scrounging they may be. But is not the topic of this forum. What is the topic is the very clever cheating that goes on to to subdue such people to the attrocius stories reported, do not represent the Sweden I know. In a nut shell her views, made my skin crawl. And the fact that she is not Swedish, is frankly a relief. Swedes are much better than that I like to believe still. What a shameful outburst.
@here for the summer
Nah. I totally get the debate matey.
Here is an analogy.
...2 people on exactly the same research work and both inbetween research as you suggets(say electrical engineering) projects what shall we do with them in this inter research period? mmmmm..
SOLUTION:
-We'll put one on teaching assistance at Lund and pay 3(X).
-The other can we transfer to veterinary sciences faculty to feed and hose down the pigs @ (X/3) salary.
PS. one of them cant fly home during this time because they cant afford it. Sold the family goat apparently just to come to Sverige to do research with us. he he he
Lets send a message out to these goat herders, be prepared for the pigs or dont come to our country as policy.
That is not OK... here for the summer.
your statement is totally wrong too as to the message. there is now lack of 3rd world students to come to sweden . Just using india and China and examples. almost 3 billion people between them. top %1 = 300 million 99% don't want to come to sweden. Now you have 3 million applicants to come to the 10 million person country. Now consider that in China and India if you have education and research experience in Sweden or anywhere in the west you have better pay when you return.
You haven't a clue how the economics of this works and your advise on this is uninformed and incorrect.
1) Foreign students who are here *on scholarship* are *not* employed by Swedish universities. Rather, they are given access to projects and research facilities as guests.
The fact that they don't make enough money is sad, but it is *not* a Swedish problem and is instead one for their home countries who fund them. Just as any company who has staff in Sweden needs to compensate them for the local environment, so should these countries.
To complain about this and then equate it with racism is false and misleading. That's like saying that when I travel to France and don't have enough money, the French government should help me out. Patently ridiculous. What these students need to do is speak with their employers i.e., their home governments) about being paid a wage fitting where they live.
2) Foreign students that do receive doktorandtj?t positions should be paid like Swedish students. If they are not, then that is clearly discriminatory. However, I have seen no evidence of this, and the documentary that played in early December on SVT did not show this either. If such problems do exist however, they should be corrected.
3) Foreigners feeling isolated for not being Swedish is part and parcel of living in a foreign country. If I were to move to China, I'm sure I would have similar feelings, and would also probably be passed over in favor of local, Chinese speaking students. Cultural intelligence and the ability to manage the politics of a department is also part of research--nothing in this world is simply about IQ points. In that event, all foreigners--North American and European alike--are at a disadvantage in Sweden.
4) Speaking as an American, we often do receive special treatment in Sweden. Scholastically, we come from the top schools in the world, bar none. Harvard graduates trump schools from anywhere else every time. English is our native language, and our funding (often) comes from a country whose standard of living in similar to Sweden's, and we are compensated accordingly. And of course, Swedes possess an unholy admiration and fascination with America, which doubtless has a part to play.
5)I feel that both the SVT documentary and this opinion piece are simply a campaign to embarrass the schools and the government into capitulating, thus raising the union's power.
In summary, let's be clear about what we're talking about.
My argument is not advisory ...
Nah. I am defending, the whole ...
"..screw them..."
"..its foreigners own stupidity for coming to Sweden..."
"..jobs for the boys..."
"..look what they are doing to taxation..." (ghastly!)
Fair enough my earlier, very simple analogy was just that. SIMPLE.
Of course I know its far more complex. And Yes...I have done research and hence the little insight I have into the complexities of sharing resources of research both during, and in the periods between projects.
Many people find going for a walk or changing to another room can improve the perspective you look at a problem. I have seen the same phenomena with people that have come other countries.
Because of their different experiences and backgrounds its like they have gone on a REALLY 'big walk' . So big in fact they find themselves in ANOTHER country, Sverige as an example.
Their perspective is often, so invaluable when they eventually take their seat and 'look down that microscope' one more time after that 'walk'. Figuratively speaking of course.
A lot of these guys usually have a lot to offer, by how they may look at the very projects we may have been looking at for a while. Fresh eyes can illucidate angles not previously considered.
HOW CAN THAT BE A BAD THING?
HOW DO MEASURE THAT IN DOLLARS AND CENTS?
No one doubts the system is complex. But when the system results in the huge anomalies that have been reported ie. ( in lay man terms ) ... decides whether you end up 'minding the pigs' or a cushy job supervising undergrads for twice the pay of the 'other' , is decided by the DETERMINING FACTOR of where on Earth you have come from, then dear summer..the system is severely flawed by disadvantaging one over the the other to such obvious and embarrassing scales.
ITS NOT ON (in any language).
I am not really sure where you are going with your spin off on 'economic growth'. I hope you not advocating its ok to mistreat people as long as you get your 'bowl of sugar'. That's been tried and tested, I believe it was called slavery.
There is a slight difference if the student is a guest student merely visiting Sweden for a few months and registered with a foreign university - therefore it is acceptable that they live on scholarships and have no employment rights just in the same way as Swedish doctorand who go to the US/UK etc often have apply for scholarships in order to go abroad.
However when doctorands tricked into accepting unfavourable conditions because they are foreigner and don't know how the Swedish system works then there is a problem. All registered doctorands should by employed by the University with contracts of employment. If they are working alongside and doing the same work and teaching/lecturing commitments as fully paid doctorands but being paid a fraction for the same job then there is a problem. Also when people are tricked into being a 'pre-doctorand' which is a fictional position.
However it is not all departments that treat doctorands badly - many have a policy of all being on the same employment contracts.
The situation for post docs is completely different - many Swedes also end up on unfavourable scholarship contracts
I have got full employment since day one, however I am one of the few lucky ones.
(even though, as mariep56 wrote, I also feel sometimes that I am not part of the research community here, and quite often I feel that I am not given the same status in my department as the Swedes)
Here you are discussing a lot about foreign students (poorly) paid by their home Countries, and many people say that the problem should be addressed elswere, since it is not fault of Swedes.
HOWEVER, there are several cases of foreign PhD students who are offered a position here by swedish universities, with swedish money, but who receive just a (poor) scholarship for months, years, before even getting registered as PhD students. These students are under the economic power of their supervisors, and cannot dare to complain. They are the so called "shadow" or "ghost" PhD students.
And this is a typical swedish phenomena.
@Puffin, the situation is not completely different for postdocs, don't you think we should be employed just as well ?? ... moreover with regard to your comment about Swedish doctorants who go to Uk universities having to , many uk universities have scholarships open to EU residents that give excatly the same rights and opportunities as to UK students ( I got my PhD in the UK)...
The slavery doesn't figure here. it's all negotiated and agreed to in advance. Plus Sweden competes with outher international programs who have the current cost structure. You can make research at the univeristy level un econimically viable the way you have made Saad and Volvo economically viable. Who will strike for better wages then? the state?
I think you have misunderstood my point. What I was trying to say was that the post doc situation is slightly different as the stipendium system is not restricted to not restricted to post docs but also many Swedish PhDs are in the same position.
So what I was saying is that the post doc system is not disciminatory in the samw way - however I do agree with you that stipend financing is unacceptable in this day and age - for many doctorands it is such a step back when you finanally get your PhD and are forced to leave a secure doktoands position for a life of temporary scholarships.
- I was talking to a 'typical post doc' the other week who has not had anything but temporary scholarships since he graduated in 2006
- it is common for many PhDs to be in their 40s or 50s before being offered their first permanent lecturership.
@albert1974
I agree that some departments are good - I am also a non Swedish doctorand who was given a full doctorand position on day 1.
However I agree with you about the situation relating to skugg/shadow doctorands - this is a real problem at some universities and often it is overseas students who are exploited as they have no idea how the applications for doctorands positions work and assume that they are actually employed as a doctorand or indeed a 'pre-doctorand' even though the latter category does not exist:
- there was the big case in Uppsala a few years ago where the Chinese man worked for 2 years under the impression that his handledare had accepted his as a doctorand and that the 5000 sek a month that the supervisor paid him was normal - only to finad out after the 2 years that not focmal PhD programme application had be made by the supervisor and he was not a doctorand.
- I talked to someone from the US last year in a similar position - the supervisor assured her that she needed to work for 6 months as a pre-doctorand (unpaid) in order to prove herself blah blah blah - and after 6 months she would be registered as a doctorand - but after 6 months there was of course no PhD place for her - but the professor had got 6 months extra unpaid work - so it probably paid for a nice overseas conference for the professor.....