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Swedes should work until they're 75: Reinfeldt
Swedish prime minister Fredrik Reinfeldt said on Tuesday that Swedes need to be prepared to work up to ten years longer than they do today if they want to maintain their standard of living.
Published: 07 Feb 2012 07:40 CET
Swedish prime minister Fredrik Reinfeldt thinks that Swedes need to be prepared to work a lot longer than they do today in order to keep the same living standard as when they were working.
“The pensions scheme isn’t based on magic. It is a welfare ambition based on large-scale re-distribution and citizens’ own work. If people think that we can live longer and shorten our work life, then pensions will get lower,” Reinfeldt said in an interview with daily Dagens Nyheter (DN).
According to Reinfeldt, the expectation to retire at 65 is a problem in Sweden today.
He thinks that Swedes may have to stretch their working life to 75 years of age in order to keep the same living standard. Not many would be willing to sacrifice the way they live, he said to the paper.
“Are people on a large scale willing to give this up? I think not,” he said.
To keep working that long, Reinfeldt isn’t ruling out that Swedes would need to have more than one career during their working life.
“It is a very challenging view. Our entire life is characterized by the idea that once we have spoken to the student career counselor, we think we are going to do the same thing our entire life,” said Reinfeldt.
But instead, Swedes need to be able to change their career at a later stage in life, said the prime minister.
He also said that student loans for those over 55 wasn’t out of the question.
“Maybe it is worth looking into that,” he told DN.
Reinfeldt also said that those who are 55+ would immediately become more attractive to employers if they were expected to work for another 20 years instead of ramping down after five to six years.
“But it is important to understand that a 30-year-old wouldn’t do the same work as a 70-year-old,” said Reinfeldt.
Sweden has a flexible retirement age, where workers can begin drawing on their pension at 61 or keep working until 67. Of Swedes over 65 years old, 7.8 percent were employed in 2010, says Statistics Sweden.
The prime minister is scheduled to host a meeting in Sweden on Wednesday with the leaders of the Nordic nations, as well as with British PM David Cameron, to discuss among other things the implications of an aging population.
Reinfeldt's comments prompted a slew of reactions on Tuesday, with the influential Confederation of Trade Unions (LO) arguing that it was not feasible for its members to work to age 75.
"It is totally impossible right now, the average retirement age today is around 64," LO economist Mats Morin told Dagens Nyheter's online site.
He added however that if working conditions improved, employees could stay healthier and work longer in future.
“The pensions scheme isn’t based on magic. It is a welfare ambition based on large-scale re-distribution and citizens’ own work. If people think that we can live longer and shorten our work life, then pensions will get lower,” Reinfeldt said in an interview with daily Dagens Nyheter (DN).
According to Reinfeldt, the expectation to retire at 65 is a problem in Sweden today.
He thinks that Swedes may have to stretch their working life to 75 years of age in order to keep the same living standard. Not many would be willing to sacrifice the way they live, he said to the paper.
“Are people on a large scale willing to give this up? I think not,” he said.
To keep working that long, Reinfeldt isn’t ruling out that Swedes would need to have more than one career during their working life.
“It is a very challenging view. Our entire life is characterized by the idea that once we have spoken to the student career counselor, we think we are going to do the same thing our entire life,” said Reinfeldt.
But instead, Swedes need to be able to change their career at a later stage in life, said the prime minister.
He also said that student loans for those over 55 wasn’t out of the question.
“Maybe it is worth looking into that,” he told DN.
Reinfeldt also said that those who are 55+ would immediately become more attractive to employers if they were expected to work for another 20 years instead of ramping down after five to six years.
“But it is important to understand that a 30-year-old wouldn’t do the same work as a 70-year-old,” said Reinfeldt.
Sweden has a flexible retirement age, where workers can begin drawing on their pension at 61 or keep working until 67. Of Swedes over 65 years old, 7.8 percent were employed in 2010, says Statistics Sweden.
The prime minister is scheduled to host a meeting in Sweden on Wednesday with the leaders of the Nordic nations, as well as with British PM David Cameron, to discuss among other things the implications of an aging population.
Reinfeldt's comments prompted a slew of reactions on Tuesday, with the influential Confederation of Trade Unions (LO) arguing that it was not feasible for its members to work to age 75.
"It is totally impossible right now, the average retirement age today is around 64," LO economist Mats Morin told Dagens Nyheter's online site.
He added however that if working conditions improved, employees could stay healthier and work longer in future.
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Along with this, healthcare improvements are necessary to keep individual healthy till 80 years.
As Reinfeldt points out, the only way to retire at the luxurious but unsustainable levels of the current pensioners is to pay more in, and/or draw it out much later than now. Or, you can go Greek; spend it all out until there is nothing left, and then borrow more until your creditors won't lend you any more money. Quite what you do after that point ……. I have no idea. But then, neither do the Greeks.
Local readers who think a future Swedish state pension on its own will be sufficient to finance them through their golden years really need to think again. And this is the scary part - Sweden's pension system is relatively well managed compared with many other European countries.
First they came for the Greeks
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Greek.
Then they came for the Portugese,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Portugese.
Then they came for the Irish,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't an Irish.
Then they came for the Italians,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't an Italian.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
Many of us are better suited for senior management positions than ever, but these are somewhat limited as may be our desire to continue 10-12 hour workdays or extensive travel. Some alternate career paths need to be seriously considered or developed.
I also find it interesting how none of the commenters above mentioned that this is specifically why Sweden MUST have more immigrants... to fill the voids left by the aging populous and to fund our retirement The problem is not new, nor is it unique to Sweden. Anyone with open eyes and the ability to reason has been watching this coming for over 30 years!
1) while encouraging entrepreneurship, establish retention programs for SMEs, grow new jobs and keep them in sweden
2) let senior citizens retire and give possibilities for young people to enter job market earlier, stop letting old people finance the young and stop letting them occupy possibilities for the young
I think it is mismanagement.
That argument (third para) doesn't stand up. What void? The theory you propagate is put about by those who want unrestricted immigration into Europe, and hope nobody notices the tens of millions of currently unemployed Europeans. Once you put those millions back in the picture, it falls down.
European unemployment figures are massive. Youth unemployment figures are even worse. There is already a giant and vigorous local labour pool ready to pick up jobs vacated by the elderly, and there will be for decades to come. Of course there is always a need for skilled people to carry out tasks the locals cannot do, but inviting in unskilled immigrants to fill imaginary labour shortages isn't a sensible solution; either for an ageing workforce, or for local unemployment. It just makes things worse than they are. When Europe has too many open jobs, and not enough locals to fill them (oh happy days) then you might have a point. But not now.
One way out of the impasse is for governments to exercise a little more wisdom and urge each and every one of us to save more for a personal pension - and to start doing it as soon as possible.
Psychologically its difficult for a young person in their early 20s to appreciate they may want to retire in 30-40 years: after all its such a long way off!
Nothing really strange about Reinfeldt's words: the UK government recently announced they were bringing forward, by 8 years, a 'later state pension retirement age'
1. If people can work longer then this might make young people unemployment levels even higher than they are today. Surely one can't talk about increasing the pension age until one sees that there are plenty of jobs to go around!
2. People should have a right to choose when they decide to retire after 60 say. If they have provisioned correctly and therefore can afford it let them decide. It means educating people to financially plan for retirement from an early age.
3. I think there should be restrictions on how much overtime people should be able to do. Better to employ 2 people who can enjoy life working a normal working week than have one unemployed and the other stressed out of his/her mind because they work too long.
4. Job sharing is a concept to be looked at. Maybe the combination of an older person with a younger person. The older person can deliver his/her experience plus do back office type support work for the younger person. They work as a team.
5. Older people who become physically or medically unable to continue working need to be protected in some way. Even if one looks after ones body one can never tell when something goes wrong with it. Promoting and even perhaps legislating a heathly lifestyle could help reduce the number of people who do become unfit to work in their 60's and 70's.
6. Generally speaking, mentally and physically older people are not as sharp as they were when younger so what kind of jobs suit these people in dynamic and fast moving companies? Let's define the jobs and think about ways of transitioning people from what they do today to these jobs.
So many more ideas but I'll stop here.
Swedes hardly want to hire the immigrants. How you gonna fix that? Secondly, what the heck ever happened to the idea of on-the-job training in this country? I've been here for almost nine months (married in) and searching for employment for over a year. I speak three languages, broadly and continuously educated, internationally well-exposed, and making the career transitions suggested by Reinfeldt. Every employer DEMANDS experience a.k.a. presently employed in the same industry or sector, and yet the cries rage about needing immigrant workers. ?????????????
http://dx.doi.org/10.1787/888932381836
Reforms are needed, and unless someone is willing to mention that today's scheme does not add up, we will be in a worse situation to be "surprised" by the mathmatically obvious.
Sweden needs to change the conditions that add up to working past 70, because not too many people can do that, (of course some can).
You might get a job quicker, if you pay attention better. Read my post properly please.
bad management.
Under the current rules Swedish Government Ministers get a huge financial bonus is they retire at 50!
So for Reinfeldt - ife her retires at
- 50 - he gets 144,000 kr/month until he turns 65
- 65 - the he gets only 14,687 kr/month
But the rest of us must work until 75!
Well said, it only shows it's the only ideas he has. Time to get this useless buffoon out off Swedish politics.
Seriously, you lefties on here live in an alternate totally idyllic and illogical universe. Luckily, the Swedish electorate seem to have a slightly higher IQ and are prepared to listed to, and vote for common sense reality, however brutal the truth may be.
Fact. Sweden has the best run economy in the western world. We don't need totally mental leftist outdated policies back to ruin it all.
I have a suspicion that even the Social Democrats are finally starting to get the message. Moderate led coalition with the Social Democrats after the next election???
When I was 20 years old, I never forsaw that I might nearly die of a severe viral infection, and after recovering from that, almost die in a head-on collision (the other fellow did die).
By the time I was 24 both of those things had happened. The lesson is that one cannot foresee the future. And those who suggest that more and more people can work until 75 have totally lost touch with reality.
Large scale immigration of educated, qualified, well experienced people into Sweden.
too bad all the architects designing this ponzi scheme got their votes, got their power, and are living well in some paradise I suppose.
Politician is a strange profession, you may have to resign if you take $100 dollar bribe, but you are just fine if you waste $100,000,000, so long as you come up with a nice excuse for it, like saving the world from man-made global warming.
A jump from 65 to 75 is absurd and basically means that around half the population would never actually collect a pension. However an increasing number of the the 65+ would end up retiring on health grounds, so the saving would be far smaller than expected. An extra 2 years would make huge difference to the pension industry and is probably a reasonable payback for increased longevity.
But a major benefit of retirement is to clear out the intellectually moribund, or those past their prime, from top jobs. Many in the 65+ will perform useful work but some really should to leave or at lest move to less important posts.
For those who suggest that immigration should be halted to assure employment for the young just don't understand the facts. This is a long term problem and will get exponentially worse before it gets any better. Yes, we need to retire to provide vacancies in the job market.... but a 23 year old does not have my univ degrees or 40 years of management experience! Our age bubble has created a void that will only be filled over time... in the meantime we need folks to take care of us and begin the long education process. Many of them will be immigrants to Europe and the US and Canada!
Why do people like you always rant on about "lefties" as you like you call them, you sound like small children, for god's sake grow up.
You are obviously one of the mislead people, where you believe that people that have a comfortable life tell you what to think.
Your statement "the Swedish electorate seem to have a slightly higher IQ and are prepared to listed to, and vote for common sense reality" has already been proven wrong this morning, "An overwhelming majority of Swedes disagree with Swedish prime minister Fredrik Reinfeldt's suggestion that workers should be ready to stay on the job until they are 75, a new poll shows.".
Sorry what was you saying about the Swedish electorate, you have no idea. And where did you get the idea that "Sweden has the best run economy in the western world".
Sweden like most other European countries lives in a grown up world, where people respect each other when it comes to health, education and retirement. It is only the few that want to change health, education and retirement and these are people with no financial worries, in fact their greed wants even more money. It is these very people that mislead others for their own financial gain.
Anyone earning more than 500,000 per year should be taxed accordingly and increased pro rata. Not everyone was born with a golden spoon in their mouth, and some were never even born with a wooden spoon in their mouth. Work and money should be shared more fairly in this world, poverty, homelessness and health worries must be stamped out.
We are humans, we all have the same right. But this is not happening, the few are walking away with the most.
Jan Ekberg puts the economic effect of immigration to sweden at a transfer of wealth from natives to foreignborn at 1.5-2% of GDP:
http://www.eso.expertgrupp.se/Uploads/Documents/ESO%20rapport%203.pdf
Jan Tullberg writes a critique of his findings which puts the transfer of wealth at 3%.plus.
http://www2.ne.su.se/ed/pdf/39-1-jt.pdf
The natives should have been allowed to put this huge wealth into pensionfunds instead of immigration they did not ask for and that was decided over their heads.
I am almost 27 and have a Swedish bachelor degree in economics and still i can not get a job ! so give me a job before making my tired 60+ neighbor to work till the age of 75 !
2. One can continue to be useful to others without being employed. One can provide social and loving glue to family and friends that is not manufactured or provided by any organization.
3. Books, CDs and DVDs are free at the library.
4. I get a discounted SL card which takes me anywhere in Stockholm L?
5. When I need to travel by car, I use the Bilpool which, unfortunately, went broke--but there seems to be a resurrection of sorts.
6. The communal garden (Koloni) is a great thing to engage with: hands in the Earth; flowers and fruits and vegetables that one helps to nurture, for the table and just for pure enjoyment. What a treat to sit in the sun and hear the birds and the wind through the nearby trees.
7. Find some younger people to mentor in a non-intrusive way. Just be a friend and it flows naturally.
8. Quit thinking "I'm Old"!
Don't mix up things you don't know. Pensions come from public money, right? But in Spain or Ireland there's no problem with public debt, but private. Just check out the numbers (% of GDP). The bad news is there's some other problems affecting a possible recovery, like corruption and greed (wealth in the world is finite, so it should be equally shared).
This seems to me a more like global conspiracy. As some guy from a union once said in a meeting: the Chinese market is rising and their workers want those same conditions of the Western world. They'll just make those working conditions worse for all of us and those Asian workers would be equal already.