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Reinfeldt: 'Turkey belongs to Europe'

AFP/The Local · 22 Apr 2009, 07:17

Published: 22 Apr 2009 07:17 GMT+02:00

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"Sweden fully supports Turkey's bid to join the European Union...Turkey belongs to Europe," Anatolia quoted Reinfeldt as saying after talks with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

But a settlement from the UN-led peace talks between the rival Turkish and Greek sectors on Cyprus would help Turkey's case, he added.

Sweden takes over the rotating EU presidency on July 1.

Turkey launched membership talks with the European bloc in October 2005.

But the talks have stalled over opposition from some EU states to allowing a predominantly Muslim country into the bloc; and over its long-running row with Cyprus.

Cyprus has been divided since 1974 when Turkey invaded its northern third in response to a Athens-engineered coup to unite the island with mainland Greece.

Elections in the breakaway Turkish Cypriot state on Sunday saw the return to power of hardline nationalists, raising fears over the future of the peace negotiations.

But Erdogan earlier Tuesday warned the poll winner against disrupting the talks.

Ankara wished to see a "just, lasting and comprehensive" settlement to the island's division by the end of the year, he said.

Turkey has refused to endorse the internationally recognized Greek Cypriot government and is the only country to recognize the self-styled Turkish Cypriot statelet.

Story continues below…

It has also refused to open its ports to EU-member Cyprus under a customs union pact with the EU.

That prompted the EU bloc in 2006 to freeze talks in eight of the 35 policy chapters Ankara needs to successfully negotiate.

AFP/The Local (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

11:01 April 22, 2009 by Petr Smid
Turkey is and Asian country

It has a different culture and values than we have in Europe, therefore the accession of Turkey to the EU is a non-sense. Being a member of NATO is enough. Europe has enough problems with immigrant already now, and leting millions of people from different culture come tu Europe is simply unwise. 97 per cent of territory of Turkey is in Aisa. The first sentense of the Copenhaguen criteria is: "Any European country..." and this shoulh be enough. Turkey is geographically, mentally and culturally in Asia.
11:05 April 22, 2009 by Britswedeguy
I totally agree with Petr, Turkey has no place in the EU. It's a backwards country that will just drag Europe backwards. The only reasons for bringing it in are political.
12:13 April 22, 2009 by Aynte
I brutally diagree with you Brits. Turkey is modern country with unusual competence to join EU bloc.

Historically, Turkey is one of the few countries that accumulated a solid-civilization, far more then countries like (Sweden, Norway). Go and figure it out!!


12:21 April 22, 2009 by Zekai
First 2 writers are just hiding their dislike for Turkish immigrants resident in Sweden to my mind. If Turkey is asian then what about Southern Cyprus? Do you really think that Turkey lacks behind new members like Bulgaria and Romania?If so, you're either ignorant or simply havent thought or learned much about the issue.
13:21 April 22, 2009 by peropaco
I cant see any value proposition Turkey will bring by granting it membership in the EU. It is a country of 72M inhabitant and considering that 22% of that population will start migrating and flooding Europe with its backward way of life. We don't need any more honour killings, Islamofascists and people who don't give an IOTA about integrating in the society of their host country.
13:45 April 22, 2009 by magic1964
What are the geografics limits of Europe by the way?? after Turkey why not taking Morocco, algeria or Tunisia

!!! is Turkey as much or less European than Morocco ??......and then if we don´t care about geographie let´s have Ukraine as well.....and then what ?? Australia ?? Mars? Jupiter?
13:47 April 22, 2009 by Markbase with an Invisible Q
Let's take Israel, while we're at it.

I mean, they're in Eurovision, so they must be part of Europe, right?
13:48 April 22, 2009 by Princess P
I think it could be a good thing. Everyone keeps saying how these islamic states are living in the dark ages, yet here is one trying to move forward. Joining the EU requires signing up to a set of standards and if Turkey can get there it will be a great day for islam and the world as a whole.

I think there needs to be a stepped joining of the EU. They reach certain standards in some areas and the doors that give access to those areas are opened.
13:51 April 22, 2009 by Craptastical
It isn't like that already? Or is it all-or-nothing right now?
13:52 April 22, 2009 by Princess P
I have no idea. But some of the replies on here indicate that people think it will be an instant opening of the boarders.
13:57 April 22, 2009 by Markbase with an Invisible Q
But I can see magic1964's point; how much can we stretch the geographical boundaries of what Europe is? OK, Turkey appears to have a toe in Europe so fair enough, I guess, but I can see where the debate comes in.

Good point though, Princess P.
13:57 April 22, 2009 by 7
princess, i agree. turkey's persistent hopes to westernize has contributed a large number of political and social reforms in the country. they still have a long way to go, but in order to motivate a continued modernization some hopes that acceptance will occur some day is paramount.
13:58 April 22, 2009 by Craptastical
Open the floodgates! We want the Whirling Dervishes to perform at the Medborgarplatsen t-bana station at 2-3 in the morning for all of us drunks. ;-)
14:05 April 22, 2009 by Squiddy
Turkey is never going to get in until the whole Cyprus issue is sorted out. I can't find the article just now, but I was reading somewhere yesterday that recent changes to the government in the North of Cyprus (the Turkish bit) mean that unification talks will probably stall (again, for the eleventy-millionth time).

Until they can all just be friends over there, Greece will continue to apply pressure for Turkey to be refused entry to the EU.

Given it's position at the edge of Europe/Asia and the fact that it's got a blimming massive army I think it would be rather advantageous to have them in the EU.
14:09 April 22, 2009 by infinity94
The Swedish parlamant refused to recognize the Armenian Genocide, i can say its BIG SHAME to Swedish goverment, in the name of Swedish people ,to rufuse truth about one and half Armenians who dead during 1915 from Turkey, and he is planning to support Turkey. Where is the sense of huminity in swedish parlamant? Is Sweden that country where the justice and trurth can be found?
14:12 April 22, 2009 by ConX
Turkey is far too big in my opinion for full EU membership. The influence that a muslim country of 71 million people, vastly different in culture and politics from Western Europe, will wield is way too disproportionate. I would support some sort of "junior" membership for Turkey where its influence is severely curbed but that's as far as I'd go. A Europe where Turkey has a bigger say than France in the decision-making process is a ridiculous concept.
14:15 April 22, 2009 by magic1964
Let´s stop this childish or cynical game with Turkey saying that if you modernise you will be accepted... Turkey is not and has never been part of Europe.....it belong to Asia just as Morocco belong to Africa or New Zealand belong to Oceania !!!!!!!
14:21 April 22, 2009 by 7
what are you referring to? i have no understanding that sweden denies the armenian genocide.
14:23 April 22, 2009 by Kibiri
Geographically speaking, Ukraine is totally in Europe. There are some reasons against Turkey becoming EU member, but if you want to talk about geography then you should revisit some primary school lessons.
14:24 April 22, 2009 by Squiddy
If we are going to be accurate, the Armenian Genocide was actually perpetrated by the Ottoman Empire. The Republic of Turkey is the successor state. Whilst it was a terrible thing and Turkey's continued attempts to try and drop it out of sight are reprehensible it doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on Turkey's application to join the EU.

If a country is to be held accountable for attrocities it committed in it's past then I don't think Britain or Germany to name but two would be allowed in the EU either!
14:24 April 22, 2009 by infinity94
Turkey is not exsit, but there is occupied land which we call it Turkey now. Does the PM Reinfeldt read the history of Sweden and Europe?

Turks are not Europian at all, their origin comes from tatar-mongols, from Asia during mediveal time. Ethically they are not Europian or even they dont have any root. By land we can say just Istanbul is in Europian side, and Istabul is COSTANTINOPOL which was Byzitine(Greece).

Its very clear and understandable that Turks does not belong to Europe ethically and by land. The land which present now Turkey was land of GREEKS, ARMENIANS, ASSYRIANS and other Christian comunites. Most of the immigranted Assyrians from Turkey, syria, Iraq and lebanon live in sweden, the Swedush goverment knew that very well.
14:24 April 22, 2009 by infinity94
How the turks had land? the young student knew that very well, they creat turkey by war, crime, genocide, dectator, facist, fanatisism, islamism, murder.... when someone will read the history of Turkey, he/she will smell the BLOOD inside that pages.

I think Europians need more lesson to know what is ISLAM, what is TURKS, and WHAT IS TURKEY. Still the history from 13 till 21 centuries are fresh. what turkey has done.
14:26 April 22, 2009 by infinity94
WHAT I WANT TO SAY IS WEAK UP EUROPE, EUROPIANS but specially PM Mr Reinfeldt......
14:28 April 22, 2009 by Squiddy
Woah Infinity94! Easy tiger. Is it the massive chip on your shoulder that's causing you to type like a two year old?
14:30 April 22, 2009 by infinity94
sorry for forgeting to write the word million, about one and half millions of Armenians, who dead during 1915 from turks. ARMENIAN GENOCIDE
14:31 April 22, 2009 by 7
*relieved to know that infinity in this case is limited to 94 .
14:49 April 22, 2009 by magic1964
For me Europe has Roman, Greek, Celtic, Germananic, slavic and judaïsm/Christian heritage.....Europe has no islamic heritage....yes islam has had influence but just as Hindouism, Budhism or Chinese philosophie.

Europe has also borders and yes Ukraine and even European Russia are part of the big Europe........
14:49 April 22, 2009 by VikingHumpingWitch
Can I just point out that Turkey isn't an Islamic state, it's a secular state. In which case preferable to my mind than some of the Cafflick fruitloops we've already let in.
15:18 April 22, 2009 by 7
you're not seriously going to use factual reasoning in this thread are you? what when we can just make up criteria to suit our biases. so much more entertaining to spew random nonsense.
15:25 April 22, 2009 by Craptastical
Three out of four Turks make up 75% of the Turkish population. Look it up.
15:27 April 22, 2009 by VikingHumpingWitch
Sorry, I just felt Attaturk would have wanted me to mention it.

Anyway, back to the discussion. Turkey? No way man, they're Muslims, we're already living in Europistan, the last thing we need is more of them or, er, they'll probably drape a huge burkha over all the EU.
15:30 April 22, 2009 by Streja
Ahem, all those Muslims that ruled Spain until 1492 then? No Muslim heritage in Europe you say?

15:34 April 22, 2009 by magic1964
Turkey is a secular state like France and yes the army secure this....but Turkey is a muslim country just like Sweden is til now a Christian country. But you know things can change.
15:46 April 22, 2009 by 7
four out of five turks surveyed think turkey is a darn nice place to live.
15:56 April 22, 2009 by VikingHumpingWitch
Things do change, Sweden is cheerfully atheist so far as I can tell. But I doubt Turkey would attempt to impose its secularism across the whole EU (more's the pity).
16:01 April 22, 2009 by gokala
When it comes to Turkey's access to EU, it is very natural that Europeans have fears and concerns coming from the history (seeded by invading Ottoman Empire) and Islam, also some prejudice looking at the Turkish immigrants image in Europe in general. However, such fears and concerns shall not necessarily represent the facts, when it comes to pros and cons for EU, having a member such as Turkey.

I will not post too much of my personal opinion here, but I'd like to suggest people who are "really interested" in this topic to start with the corresponding Wikipedia article (link below), as it represents some useful facts, some of which needs to be read by some of the people who have posted in this article; such as Greece's position on Turkey's membership, Islam's effect on Turkey and the economical impact for EU.

16:04 April 22, 2009 by gokala
..and some quick comments about the discussion:

1. The issue of EU access has different dimensions to consider; economical, cultural and geopolitical.

2. If you haven't seen any of the major three cities (Istanbul, Ankara & Izmir) which sums a population around 40 million, you might be reaching conclusions not necessarily representing the reality.

3. If your experience with Turkish people is limited with the immigrants you meet abroad, or if you think there is no diversity between the Muslim people, if you think all Turks have embraced Islam with full heart, you might be acting on prejudices.

5. When it comes to glorious history with no human blood being spilled, isn't it pretty hard to find a European county with a clean sheet? I believe the key difference here is how cultures understand, embrace and handle their past; and yes, Turkey and Turkish culture is not be the best example on that. Which better examples can we point out from the EU then?
16:24 April 22, 2009 by Querist
Question: Isn't the Anatolian peninsula also known as ASIA Minor?

16:46 April 22, 2009 by magic1964
"Ahem, all those Muslims that ruled Spain until 1492 then? No Muslim heritage in Europe you say?"

Muslim have occupied Spain.......does it make Europe to have muslim heritage? what about Irak? does it have now American heritage?
17:31 April 22, 2009 by Mister E
A secular government doesn't change the fact that 99.8% of the Turkish population is muslim. Similarly, the fact that North Korea calls itself the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea doesn't mean that North Korea is a democratic republic.

I really don't know how Turkey can be thought of as anything other than politically, culturally, and geographically separate and distinct from Europe.
17:46 April 22, 2009 by nyoped
The accession criteria for Turkey are so rigid that, in case Turkey meets those criteria, there will not many reasons left for Turks to leave their country. In that case, European muslims would flock to Turkey along with the European retirees.

By the way, as a secular Turk I have to warn my secular European friends that there is a movement over there to identify Europe as a Christian union. You had fought hard to keep the religion out of the EU constitution...Watch out!
18:45 April 22, 2009 by kaze
Turkey is a weird country.

In the major cities in the west its a lot nicer, richer and more worthy of the EU than Bulgaria and Romania were.

Out east though...its very much a typical middle eastern country.

The solution? Grant the Kurds independance and then apply to join with the decent parts of Turkey.

Turks tend to agree that the east is quite the hole and the west rich but they never do like that idea...

ehh...Why Britain especially?

Unless you're saying no one should be allowed in.
19:01 April 22, 2009 by ConX
Actually, 1492 was just the coup-de-grace, most of Spain was Christian by the 13th century. (nitpick)
19:59 April 22, 2009 by Reptile
The love-in between Nicolas Sarkozy and Barack Obama proved short-lived after the French President warned his US counterpart yesterday to keep his nose out of the issue of Turkey's membership of the European Union.

21:20 April 22, 2009 by Kind Man
I agree with you.

It is even unfair to compare the "Great Turkey" with these small little european countries with no history and king lol

I heard some of these countries even borrowed a King lol. Turkey rocks and is one of the kicking butt Country in every sense.
01:04 April 23, 2009 by martell
Excuse me, Mr. Reinfeldt,

but Turkey does not and never did belong to Europe, neither historically, culturally, ethnically nor geographically. If you mean this strip of land which is in fact on the European continent west of the Bosporus, this is the historically and ethnically Greek region of Thrakia which has been kept by Turkey after the fall of the Osman Empire.

Does this make Turkey a European state then? In this case Spain must be part of Africa through its colonies Ceuta and Melilla.
05:29 April 23, 2009 by nyoped
@martell, unlike Spain's African colonies, European part of Turkey has been the leading and most popolous region in the country. Following your logic one would argue Denmark is not European because most of its land is not in Europe.
05:36 April 23, 2009 by Eurostan
if turky join in eu europa becomes soon eurostan.already in many countries like netherland denmark france germany there are many problems with islamic immigrants.

if turky is included in eu the virus(muslims) spreads to all countries very fast (4 children per family atleast)and europe will die with disease just like afghanistan or pakistan or somalia or sudan
07:04 April 23, 2009 by Snikk
It's all about what "they" can get from the rest of the EU.

Turkey is NOT European.

I've always wonder why these Islamic countries don't just start their own union. Why do they want to be a part of the west anyway? Most are never content living in a western society and don't want to be apart of the community. Just look at certain parts of Sweden - where they live and gather, aren't those areas turning into ghettos. As for France, every time there are riots, it doesn't look like your typical french man is the one overturning and setting cars on fire.

We don't need millions of Turks roaming around as they please.

When people start acting really stupid, causing riots, crime... most of the time they are from similar countries. There needs to be tighter control, not new borders being opened.

Isn't Britan having a lot of problems because of all these latest countries that have joined the EU?

Can Sweden leave the EU? I would vote for that.

08:10 April 23, 2009 by ufuk
I am a Turk living in Sweden since a while, and I see how people are misinformed, confused about my country.

Some facts:

- Turkey is an Euroasian country. It is European as well as Asian; it is Caucasian, Mediterranean; belongs to Balkans, as well as Middle East. All these make the culture in Turkey so rich and diverse.

- I advise you 'Europeans' to learn the geographical borders of your continent. Many are not aware where Urals and Caucasus are, and where Cyprus is!

- Turkey is one of the countries which prove that democracy and Islam can coexist.

- Nowadays nobody in Turkey is keen on joining the EU. They see how EU politicians are fooling them. EU wants to use Turkey (as a market, energy bridge, political bridge etc.), but does not want it to be part of it.
09:10 April 23, 2009 by infinity94
Some facts:

Turkey is not Euroasian Country, Its JUTS ASIAN country. Even its not Caucasian, Mediterranean and do not belongs to Balkans, as well as to Middle East. You belong to Mongol - Tatar ethically and as origin, which is in north east of Aisa. The culture which you think as turks have it, its mix of Armenian, Arabic, Assyrian, Greeks and Kurds culture. What you have it now, you had it with blood. No one need to learn geography. You have just occupied the land of many nations, Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians. Dont forget the Armenian genocide in 1915 one and half millions of Armenian, same to Greeks and Assyrians. Do not lie, that turkey is democracy, why do you still worship ataturk? your goverment day after day getting more islamic and MORE FANATIC...

You the turks dream to be part of Europe, it will remain dream, your end will be mongolstan.
09:17 April 23, 2009 by Markbase with an Invisible Q
I thought that any country that has a shore on the Mediterranean Sea could be called "Mediterranean" or at least, like France, have a Mediterranean region.

09:56 April 23, 2009 by martell
"@martell, unlike Spain's African colonies, European part of Turkey has been the leading and most popolous region in the country. Following your logic one would argue Denmark is not European because most of its land is not in Europe."


Denmark lies (and always has been) completely within Europe, its part of the mainland as well as its islands. In case you mean its former colony Greenland, because of this geographical fact you'd argue that Denmark belongs to America?

Some major fault in your argumentation there.
10:42 April 23, 2009 by VikingHumpingWitch
Ah, and The Local's Ignorance & Bigotry club has found the venue for this week's meeting.

Snikk in particular displays a staggering lack of knowledge. I'd actually like to frame that post as among the most impressively wrong and racist I've seen here to date - well done that pratt!
11:30 April 23, 2009 by Squiddy
Yes 'tis a shame. This is actually quite an interesting discussion point. Will Turkey's entry into the EU help facilitate better understanding of Islam in Europe or further divide us all? Will the addition of the very large Turkish army to the EU provide more leverage for the union? Will there be an influx of workers to the rest of Europe? Everyone was terrified of that with Poland but it hasn't materialised the way the doomsayers said it would, etc, etc.

It's a bit sad that once again a thread has to be hijacked by racists and cretins who can hardly string a sentence together.
11:37 April 23, 2009 by Kibiri
Turkish are not Mongolian. And even if they were, how is that relevant to the subject? Well, unless EU is a race based club as you seem to suggest. Lets just hope you don't start a campaign to kick Bulgarians, Hungarians and who else out of EU based on blood.
13:25 April 23, 2009 by Streja
Good lord. You can't compare about 700 years of "occupation" as you put it with a war that started in 2003. There is a lot of Islamic culture in Spain. Some of the Spanish words are of Arabic origin and there are lot of cultural influences as well, not to mention buildings.
13:42 April 23, 2009 by Bender B Rodriquez
Man, a whole thread with RETARDS...
14:23 April 23, 2009 by Craptastical
Welcome to the club!
14:49 April 23, 2009 by 7
crappy, you gotta admit this thread has attracted more than its fair share of people who are clueless and incapable of actually discussing the topic.
15:11 April 23, 2009 by Craptastical
Absolutely. Err, what was the topic again?
15:49 April 23, 2009 by Tradebay
Just for the record, Greece supports Turkey 100% in joining the EU. This way Greece doesn't have to look over their shoulder anymore, and Turkey needs to play nice with all parties of the EU.
15:53 April 23, 2009 by Tradebay
And if the Western worlds goal is to change the Middle East or gain some foot hold, wouldn't it strategically make sense to take Turkey into the EU?
19:24 April 23, 2009 by melo
Actually it is kinda sad that people are making comments without having knowledge, especially infinity94. First of all in the time of ottoman empire all of these nations greek, armenians and kurds were living in peace even after ottoman invaded these lands.

Secondly, We can say then that every nation today had occupied some other nation's land in the past- what a logic like crybabies!!

Third, it is easy to say there is genocide. There no solid evidence about such armenian genocide and even there was such thing, as infinity94 says it is 1915 but where is Turkey then? Turkey is founded in 1923.

Please if you hate some nations, have some knowledge about them first otherwise you can be in the position of such a fool while making arguments.
22:53 April 23, 2009 by svenskdod
A recent survey in Turkey showed that 60% of the population would move in to Europe if they became part of the EU.

Even if these numbers are exaggerated, and we take half of that, it amounts to more than 20 million people. A mass exodus like that to western Europe is unstable.

An increase in the immigrant population on any of the western European countries would cripple the economies of said countries.

With the economy being as it is right now, this is unwise at best.

It is unfortunate that people use words like "racism" and "Bigotry" in a situation like this. The facts of the matter is unemployment is on the rise, if there are not enough jobs for the people in the country as it is, then there will be none for a huge influx.

Logic must prevail in situations such as this.
23:29 April 23, 2009 by Willy
Only 20 million people? That's nothing. For God's sake we are half a billion people in the EU. And we're not exactly brilliant at reproducing ourselves. If we are to maintain our standard of living we WILL need that workforce in the future.

I might have objections about the immature Turkish democracy, the legal system not being independent enough, the political power of the army, the Kurdish issue and the security implications of having an EU bordering Iran, Iraq, and Syria, but the potential workforce is something I put on the plus side.
23:35 April 23, 2009 by infinity94
well, its not problem of knowlege, its problem of stupied people as you, try to write down a comment does not have any sense of reality. Let me call you O stupid person, how you can say during the ottoman empire the people were living in peace? do you have sense of feeling? or do you know what was ottoman empire? does your parnets teach you what is justice? human being has a right to live on homeland?. I'm from 3 generation of survivers of Armenian genocide, I have born in diaspora, why i can still talk Armenian? why? stupied person, people who used to live during ottoman empire and when the turkey founded in 1923, they were different kind of people? or turks??? there is no hates, there is justice and truth, more than knowledge there is reality and truth...
23:36 April 23, 2009 by infinity94
tomorrow is 24 april, Armenian all over the world.... will recognize the ARMENIAN GENOCIDE. why ? 8 millions of people will stop everything and remeber that day? sweden pays for them to do that or america will reduce ther tax?.. respect your self, and dont be turk more than the turks..
08:23 April 24, 2009 by VikingHumpingWitch
Sometimes you get the feeling that intelligent debate is possible here, it just never gets a chance to flourish under the tonne of that floats around this forum.

One thing that Britain is demonstrating nicely at the moment is that economic immigrants go where there are jobs. If there aren't jobs then it's not a place to earn money. There are far fewer EU immigrants arriving in Britain at the moment and there are many going home. Turks are not stupid, nor can they live off air.
10:02 April 24, 2009 by Paulo +fab muscular than Jonnhy
I think allowing Turkey to be part of the EU is an excellent idea. They could bring in a lot of wonderful traditions! I can't wait to see oil wrestling being a national sport all across Europe.


12:16 April 24, 2009 by Pen&inkArtist
The first poster is absolutely right, they are “mentally and culturally in Asia”. I am in the uk and I know many turks and kurds.

One of my best friends is a Turk. Great warm loving people however his sister isn't allowed out by herself even though she is in her 20's. His mother has never worked because it's not acceptable for her to do so. They have turned parts of north and east London into an exclusive Turkish/Kurdish area.

These people are not European and don't have European ideas or values, sorry to say but it's the truth.
12:24 April 24, 2009 by Pen&inkArtist
Replying to

VikingHumpingWitch, “There are far fewer EU immigrants arriving in Britain at the moment and there are many going home.”

You are completely wrong. They don't count who is coming in the UK from EU countries because they are compete freedom to enter so they don't have any accurate numbers.

As for the leaving, a recent report says that most eastern Europeans are planning to stay here because they don't have any jobs in their homeland and after a year in Britain they are entitled to benefits which are greater then these in their homeland so it doesn't make sense to go back does it?
13:06 April 24, 2009 by melo
Officially Turkey is not a member of EU but actually it takes part in almost any sports, musical or similar competitions between European countries. It seems like it gets acceptance other than becoming a member.
16:35 April 24, 2009 by Querist
Question: Doesn't the wife of Turkey's President wear a headscarf?

16:55 April 24, 2009 by melo
answer: yes she does wear a headscarf
17:49 April 24, 2009 by Querist
Thanks. I rest my case then.

18:02 April 24, 2009 by kaze
How can you rest your case on that?

My grandmother wears a headscarf.
18:29 April 24, 2009 by Kaethar
Very well said.

I see it as a positive thing. Turkey has had a lot of reforms (and still have many to do) before they can be allowed into the EU. Once they do it won't be a problem. Culturally Asian? How? You people ever been to Turkey (or Asia)? I'd argue that the Bulgarians and Romanians are far more backwards than the turks, but I guess since they're not muslims it's ok...
08:42 April 25, 2009 by mombassa
The argument against the ridiculous notion of including Turkey in the EU is that:

- Turkish culture is not European.

- Turkey is not a European country.

- Turks are Asians, not Europeans.

2/3 of Russia is in Asia and that in no way makes Russians an Asian people.

The Turks are a central Asian people that are relatively a very recent addition to Asia Minor.

Turkey used to own large swaths of Europe for hundreds of years, and that in no way made them European or part of Europe.

The last thing Europe needs is more Muslims, especially in Germany where Muslims constitute 5% of the population and are responsible for 20% of the births. Yes, 20%. They are becoming very arrogant.

If Europeans do not reverse their hedonistic lifestyles and their suicidal reproduction habits Europe will expire from old age, and Muslims will take their place. Not that many Euros seem to care.

08:54 April 25, 2009 by mombassa
Don't anyone be cowed by accusations of racism or "bigotry".

Fight for western culture.

Western culture will not survive being "replenished" by non-westerners.

Asians are not stupid; they would never voluntarily allow Europeans to flood and force such influence over their respective cultures.

Europeans are a bunch of hedonistic, suicidal, self-hating sodomites whose culture at the moment deserves to flounder and rot.

Tens of millions were killed during the various 20th century wars, and for what?

Get back to Christianity, start having sex and kids and western culture will prevail.
15:10 April 25, 2009 by 7
seems your worry is therefore moot.
00:35 April 26, 2009 by insomnia
I'm a Turk lived in Istanbul his whole life and now doing phd in Sweden. Here's my take on the issue:

People in Turkey were hopeful about EU in the beginning but now the consensus is that it will never happen and we should take care of ourselves.

Turkey is a secular and perfectly livable country (my lifestyle hasn't changed one bit when moved from Ist to Sto, in fact I used to have more bar action back in good old Ist.) and it is this way NOT because of blind copy-catting Europeans but because we prefer it that way.

Now that I think about it, in fact, I would like to keep Turkey unique as it is, a blend of Europe, Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Asia and Far East roots.

So EU?, no but thanks, we like to keep it to ourselves and stay the unique country we are. (no nationalistic chest beating here!)
05:22 April 26, 2009 by mombassa
Insomnia, it's good that Turks don't want to join the EU and it's good that you're satisfied living in Turkey.

That is the key to keeping Turks out of Europe; modernize Turkey.

As for "nationalism", when your culture becomes self-hating and acquiescent to the foreign hordes in its midst, you too will become "nationalist".

05:25 April 26, 2009 by mombassa
007, I'm assuming you're referring to my post. My point is that Europe is going down the wrong path and that foreigners in its midst will help it go down the wrong path, basically to irrelevance as hedonistic Europeans abort themselves until western culture is no more. We have the responsibility to pass on this culture, but we are letting it die.
15:24 April 26, 2009 by Streja
I bet you don't even know what European culture is and don't know the traditional dances or how to cook proper baguettes.
15:47 April 26, 2009 by insomnia

It is already a modern country, much much more than some EU countries that are recently accepted. And it has roots from Far East to India (who do you think built Taj Mahal??) up to Vienna. We don't want (need) no stinkin' EU, tack tack. (I have nothing against Europe and its people, it's just this EU-game that I dislike)

I made the nationalist comment for myself, not to criticize you, but you're so damn on your toes to bash somebody that you took it on yourself.

Here's what you don't see, so long as you close your doors to the world, we will be discussing keeping Euros out of Turkey in the coming decades.

15:54 April 26, 2009 by insomnia
Also, dear Euros, let's not throw the guilt around when it comes to wars and atrocities around the world.

2 World Wars, genocides that are unseen to man and deaths by the millions in 30 years? (not counting enslaving who ever you can in the whole world just to obtain material goods, nice christian morals there) Way to go Europe, you have such a non-violent history!
17:23 April 26, 2009 by Querist
From: Hurriyet

"The World Values Survey Association found that Turkey is distrustful of foreigners."

"Among Turkish respondents, 25 percent viewed people unfavorably who speak a language other than Turkish. The number of people who attributed importance to freedom of expression was in decline."

"Three out of four think man's place is at the head of the family. Polygamy for men is acceptable, said 10 percent. Almost two thirds thinks women should obey men. One fifth said a woman can warrant a beaten by her husband."


Question: Does 'this' sound like a Western Nation to you?


15:36 April 27, 2009 by Paulo +fab muscular than Jonnhy
OMG! That's too good to be true! Will Britain finally be a safe place?

16:06 April 27, 2009 by Kind Man
Britain cant be safe place until they think safe for the rest of the world.

if they stop bombing attacking and fighting for power and oil they will never be safe. but yeah

Sweden will be safe for sure no matter if a million of immigrants come here .

I heard many Swedish Ppl long time age used to go to Turkey for work and these days they find the treausre of Gold and coins and most are the old Turkish coins.


You never know maybe after 200 or 300 things would change again.
16:34 April 27, 2009 by gedw99
i spent 8 months backpacking through Turkey, syria, Egypt and Jordan. I also went to Israel

Turkish people are the most well balanced Europeans i have met. They are very friendly and great well meaning people. They are also used to having to be in both the muslim and non muslim factions at the same time.

Turkey is very very different from Egypt or Syria for example
17:06 May 31, 2009 by peropaco
20:21 May 31, 2009 by Gwrhyr
I actually always thought it would make a lot more sense to have a Nordic Union: Greenland, Iceland, Faroe Islands, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, and Estonia. It just makes more sense for these countries to join together rather than become a part of Franco-Germania, a.k.a. The European Union. There could also be a Nordic Crown instead of the Euro up here. But that'll never happen now that our universe has gone the way it has. But in some parallel universe things went the other way... Nordic Union and France gets it's Mediterranean Union.
21:39 May 31, 2009 by Bender B Rodriquez
We already have something similar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Council

This is why, for example, Nordic citizens don't need passports when visiting Nordic countries and why there are different citizenship rules for Nordic citizens...
21:50 May 31, 2009 by Gwrhyr
True, but the Nordic Council hasn't done much beyond the first few things it did, and doesn't do much today because of the EU's existence. It's a little bit strange how the EU has split the Nordic countries, with Denmark, Sweden and Finland in the EU, Norway, the Faroe Islands, Iceland and Greenland out of the EU, Finland adopting the Euro, Denmark getting an official opt-out and not adopting the Euro, and Sweden simply postponing or defying their Euro obligation (as Brussels sees it)... The Nordic Council and Nordic Unity in general has been shattered by the EU, which is really interesting considering the EU's goal of unifying Europe.
22:03 May 31, 2009 by Bender B Rodriquez
The Nordic council still does lots of coordination between the Nordic countries when it comes to EU issues, even for Norway since they are in EES/Schengen. Also, the Nordic union has in may ways come much further that the EU when it comes to the common market and movement of goods and labour. I would not say that the EU has split the Nordic countries.

I don't think there is much support for neither a Nordic union nor a full European Union when it comes to the Nordic countries; we are a bit sceptical and don't like the idea of giving too much power to a union, not even a Scandiavian one.
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