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May Day nuptials for same-sex couples

TT/The Local · 2 May 2009, 10:10

Published: 02 May 2009 10:10 GMT+02:00

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“It went really well! This is fantastic, fantastic weather!” Karlsson exclaimed immediately following the ceremony.

Although homosexual couples in Sweden have been allowed to enter into legal partnerships since 1995, Friday marked the first day gay and lesbian couples were granted the same legal status as their heterosexual counterparts. The new gender-neutral marriage law allows homosexual couples to enter into marriage “for real.”

For Karlsson, Lundqvist and many others, it means much more than that.

“It means that our love is worth the same as everybody else's. And it doesn't matter if it is a man and a man, or a man and a woman, or a woman and a woman, but all love is equally valuable,” Karlsson told TT.

When asked if it was important to be married on the first day the law went into effect, Karlsson answered in the affirmative. “We are both politicians and thought that this was our opportunity to make a statement,” he said.

Karlsson and Lundqvist are both members of the Green party, so party leader Maria Wetterstrand officiated at the ceremony and fellow party member Ywonne Ruwaida was one of the witnesses.

“I was there when we signed the joint Social Democratic-Left-Green motion for a gender-neutral marriage law in the parliament and so it was only natural to ask Maria to officiate.”

TT: What now?

Story continues below…

“Now we are going to celebrate with our nearest and dearest!” Karlsson said.

TT/The Local (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

16:00 May 2, 2009 by maria1234
YACK, it makes me feel sick to read about it.

All the issue is wrong and it can't be real!!
17:34 May 2, 2009 by rybo1
It seems kind of "FRUITY" to me, but the two Greens appear to be a charming couple. Gee, I wonder if they're thinking of having any kids?
18:38 May 2, 2009 by Greg in Canada
Not a real big deal. Canada legalized gay marriage several years ago and the sky didn't fall down on the Canuks. If two gays want to call themselves married then who cares? It doesn't effect my life one way or another. But now they have all the potential legal hassles that can sometimes occur when heterosexual marriages break up. More work for lawyers.
21:46 May 2, 2009 by Nemesis
I am glad this happened.

Now we can have equality in divorce and give lots of extra work to divorce lawyers. I look fiorward to the first divorce cases reported in the local, so that everyone can see that gays are like the reast of us, when they get married, divorced, firgot over the cat, car, etc:)

As for anyone having a problem with gay marriage, get a life. If two gays get married it does not affect anyone else in any capacity, no matter how much you try to find a way to be offended by it.

What two consenting adults do with each other, is entirely there own business.
23:01 May 2, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
And what business is this of your's anyway?

How does this fact affect you in any jot or iota?

I'm sorry, did you just want gay folk to carry on funding the many children you spit out ad infinitum, without a recieving a fair return on our investment into the state at any point in time?

This story is indicative of where things are moving in this part of the world, so remember this:

There door is always open for you to leave at any time, and I really don't mind if it knocks your arse on the way out.
00:00 May 3, 2009 by Jakub72
...funny...seems like alot of ex-pats are bigger homophobe bigots then the actual country men who welcome us to live amongst them...
00:22 May 3, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
Yes, unfortunately there's no border control for dark hearted misery.
00:45 May 3, 2009 by Miss Kitten
There's no reason why homosexual couples shouldn't have the right to be just as miserable as their straight counterparts. Three cheers for equal rights!
01:25 May 3, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
The 'enlightenment' didn't happen in every country, land or tribal region, and it's kinda sad this is still evidential.
02:58 May 3, 2009 by freethinker
Though I would not choose the Gay lifestyle I think that people have the right to follow their own path. I think the purpose of our existance is simple to choose...what to believe, how to live, and my choice was to accept Christ. I think it's everyone's God given right to choose. I'm not interested in judging anyone since I have enough to answer for myself. Judging is God's job. Our job is to live, and to decide what to and how to make something of our lives. In the end we our responcible for our own actions, let others who choose lives we may not agree with, yet do not interfear with the rights of others live as they will.
03:07 May 3, 2009 by freethinker
By The Way, when I say I'm not interested in judging anyone I refer to lifestyle choices that do not infringe upon the rights of others. I will happily be very judgemental of rapists, murders, and ect.... i.e. Criminals.
06:22 May 3, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
A: I see you elected to use the word 'choose'.

Firstly I'd be very interested to know what made you use that particular word?

B: You also mention a concept called 'the Gay (capital 'G') lifestyle'.

I'd also be very greatful if you could share with me what your understanding of the word 'lifestyle' is. Furthermore I also wonder if you'd be so kind as to explain what in particular your understanding of what a 'Gay lifestyle' is.

Many thanks.

19:52 May 3, 2009 by Paulo +fab muscular than Jonnhy
Oh, mutters because you didn't realize yet the life style of human-beings is restricted to whom they are supposed to have sex with, i.e., sodomy. Therefore, all the other aspects of *life* and living in society are absolutely meaningless such as working hard, paying taxes as equally as everybody else, going to the supermarket, cooking, cleaning the house, driving the car, taking care of your partner, making projects for the future - It isn't the same, right?

By the way dahlin', I *chose* NOT to cook today.
19:55 May 3, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
Without putting words in the chap's mouth, I was genuinely interested in hearing what he had to say...
19:56 May 3, 2009 by freethinker
Fair enough, my thoughts may require more than one post due to the 1k character limit.

I chose the word choose because I think that one's sexual orientation is a choice. We could debate this from now til forever, and I for one do not mind dialog involving opposing views.
19:58 May 3, 2009 by Paulo +fab muscular than Jonnhy
It makes me sick when I see intolerance, including religious *intolerance*, regardless of which one somebody *chooses* to follow and how easy it is for some people to ostracize some minority groups like Muslims, perhaps being someone who faces prejudice in his own community everyday has helped me walking in somebody else's shoes, and I'm so proud of it!
20:02 May 3, 2009 by Paulo +fab muscular than Jonnhy
If it is so easy why haven't you ever tried a different sexual orientation? Give it a try? Well, even if were a choice what two consenting adults decide whom they want to live their lives with should not be the business of the state to legislate, therefore there's no reason why gay marriage should not be allowed, except for morality and imposing somebody else's view onto others.
20:03 May 3, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
May I ask what informs this belief?
20:11 May 3, 2009 by Paulo +fab muscular than Jonnhy

Science? The same scientific evidences that Joseph Nicolosi has found, but no one's ever found instead.
20:12 May 3, 2009 by freethinker
A lifestyle to me is a way in which we live that affects our views and outlook, such as: someone who may be a vegetarian, pacifist, conformist, someone following a code of conduct like an honor code or moral code. Since this topic involves same sex relations I'll concentrate there. Atm I'm single, and have a single lifestyle, which is by choice. I would rather live alone ( painful as that can be at times ) than be with the wrong person. If I were with someone of the same sex I would have what's known as a same sex lifestyle. Both types of relationships have simular results in that 2 people find something of themselves in another in what I hope would be a loving and carring relationship. Yet though simular there are some diffences. As far as I'm concerned, how someone chooses to live does not really concern me, so long as they do not interfear with the rights of others. I
20:18 May 3, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
Are you gay/have gay thoughts?
20:35 May 3, 2009 by freethinker
Me? I'm hetrosexual. I would've thought my posts would have infered this..lol. Just because I disagree with same sex lifestyles does not mean I can't be concerned with the rights of those who are gay. It is vital that in a Free Society that we consider the rights of all. Case in point, I'm a Christian which is my right, and others have a right to believe or not believe as they will, providing and, I stress providing they don't try to force their views on others, or in any other way violate the rights of others. I'm an American living in the United States. While I'm here and others in European Nations we are all part of the Western Civilization. In the West we adhere to basic principles....freedom....the right of people to explore their potential as human beings, to be free of oppression.
20:45 May 3, 2009 by freethinker
Opps to clarify the Civilization we call the West comprises of Europe, the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. I did not intentionally mean to exclude anyone.
20:47 May 3, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
My concern is this:

I don't know how people can profess to claim homosexuality is a choice...If they are in not of the persuasion themselves.

It would be like me speaking out on the behaviour of cats. I'm no cat, so therefore I could really not say why cats do their cat-stuff.

If I were to label all cat-like behaviour as 'choice', it would in fact at best be supposition and at worst indicative of a lazy intellect.

At the end of the day, you've got about as much chance of turning a gay person straight as you have making cats parade.
20:49 May 3, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
You got a problem with Greenland?
21:12 May 3, 2009 by freethinker
No I don't I thought Iceland and greenland were part of Europe, If I am mistaken the I humbly beg your forgiveness. Iceland and Greenland are part of the West.

Hmm... one does not have to be homosexual to chose not to be one. Obviously since I'm Hetrosexual I chose to be. I actually have considered that question, and well males in my mind are abit too rigid for my taste, and I prefer curvier fare, but that's just me...lol. I adore women, and when in their company I feel a sence of peace , joy, and contentment. Also my religious views come into play as well. I try to adhere to a code of conduct inherent to my Christian belief. Homosexuality is a no no, yet to be fair fornication is also a no no, and I've been quite a fornicator. I do try to live a moral life. My biblical studies have taught me that we are here to make choices, how to live, what to believe or not believe, this is our God given right.
22:03 May 3, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
You're right, Greenland is kinda Danish-ish.

Anyhoo, when you had your own internal discussion it sounds like it was very different to mine. For me there was no choice.

To be sure, I had the internalised homophobia that a lifetime of being told what I always secretly felt was wrong, yet aged 15 I fortunately had the wherewithal to finally and fully accept myself as being different to the majority.

Fortunately for me, (and I don't wish to denigrate your right to a belief system) I had no religious hang ups, as I'd left the Christian stories behind along with Father Christmas, The Easter Bunny and that creepy minx: The Tooth Fairy.

Now, I do appreciate the fact you clearly communicate the fact that you feel gay folk should be free to go about their business without hate or hindrance, as you seem to understand the fact they cause no more harm to society any more than any other schmo., yet there's a catch there.

By invoking the concept of choice and combining that with the Christian tradition you believe in, actually imply that gay folk are inherently wrong, and we all know where that leads...
22:54 May 3, 2009 by freethinker
I had not really considered homosexuality until it became a topic durring a conversation with friends. One of my friends was wrestling with homosexuality, and asked what made me a hetrosexual. It was a serious question, and after the initial shock as is my nature I began to consider the question posed to me. I took quite some time thinking about it. I finally came to the conclusion that I'm hetrosexual for 2 primary reasons. 1st women are curvy and I do so love curves. I love the way women move, the way they speak, and the way they tilt their heads just so while thinking or listening to something they like. I like their nature being diferent than a males, as in how they think and reason. 2nd I'm a Christian and well living or attempting to live as God would want is a small price to pay for immoratilty when this chapter of human history comes to a close. In no way am I trying to preach to you, or anyone else. I simply want the reasoning I had at that time understood.
23:05 May 3, 2009 by freethinker
I must say I do enjoy conversing with you all. I find it pleasant and most refreshing to exchange thoughts and ideas without people I'm talking with getting all bent out of shape. In my country the U.S, many are far too closed and small minded. Apathy rules here. People do not seem to care about others or what our government is or is not doing. This is dangerous to a free society. Plato once wrote that the consequence of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. I find that I more and more often wish I did live in Sweden. You seem to be a nation of freethinkers, and you seem to have a genuine concern for the direction of your country, and for the most part do not seem to mind lively debate on contriversial issues.
23:59 May 3, 2009 by Greg in Canada
Freethinker, if you want to live in a more liberal country than the USA then just move north to Canada. I've lived in both countries and there is a definate difference between the two. Also, as you know, parts of the USA are much more liberal than others. I'd live in the northeast or northwest if I lived in the USA. Forget the midwest or confederate states. I could never live any place where they vote Republican.

I don't know if I could live in Sweden. I've been there and like the Swedes a lot, but the cost of living is very high there. Sweden wouldn't offer me anything that I can't find at home except that it's in Europe.
10:15 May 4, 2009 by Paulo +fab muscular than Jonnhy
Have you ever read the bible? I mean, *fully* - (I'm not considering the fact that some people have taught you some pick-and-choose passages of it purposedly according to their own interests).

Would you please elaborate a thought about these few passages?

- slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave - (Exodus 21:1-11)

- child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16)

- bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9)

- men's castration to go to heaven (Matthew 19:12 ASV)

And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear: "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17)

After so many different interpretations of the *same* old bible that has been made throughout human history how coherent are they supposed to be when it comes to homosexuality being right or wrong? What credibility does it have to back this view?

PS- some men can have a lot of curves too, some chaps can look rather femminine and have female-like curves and also have something "extra" whereas some women can have no curves at all ... some ... n
13:56 May 4, 2009 by DidiE
And how do you have babies, remembering what went in there in the first place? Ai Maria, this is no way to discuss a human rights issue. What people do in their own bedrooms is none of our business. If you want people to respect your rights, you would do well to respect theirs.

Sorry, I'm just tired of adult conversations going down to the level of two year olds' whenever religion and sex are brought up. Even your thread, offering to explain Islam, ended up being a kebab slinging insult-a-palooza. I'm not sure where you are coming from, but expected slightly higher levels of discourse here.
14:02 May 4, 2009 by Princess P
Beware of the snakes.
14:40 May 4, 2009 by Puffin
Well you seem to have given the whole issue much more consideration than the average person - and no I have never seen any gay porn - but you seem to know all about it - is there something you want to share with the class?
14:46 May 4, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
How so?

Dirt seems to be a preoccupation of your's...Care to enlighten me as to why?

I'd say this drivelling nonsense was juvenile and the kind of primative crap one would expect to hear in a school playground, except you rather give the impression that school was never an option for you.

Hahahahahaha, why yes I have little Miss, though to be honest I've grown a little bored of my current source of onanistic material, yet it clearly sounds like you could recommend a new source!

if so, please to it to my email addy:

15:07 May 4, 2009 by Squiddy
Ah Maria1234. It's a bit sad that you originally set yourself up as the poster child for Islamic marketing relations, preaching tolerance and open-mindedness to all and now we see you totally disregarding the rights of a reasonably large segment of the population.

Why does this not surprise me?
15:10 May 4, 2009 by High Priestess Kang - Slut
You are, indeed, the world's biggest idiot.
15:26 May 4, 2009 by Puffin
Maria1234 certainly seems to have a lot of interest in this area of the anatomy
15:26 May 4, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
To quote it's profile:

'Interests: "very peaceful person!!

wish every one who live on the earth to have a good and happy life!"'

15:27 May 4, 2009 by DidiE
I suggest she take up gardening. The constant flow of effluvia thereof could be put to better use in the compost pile.
15:30 May 4, 2009 by Squiddy
Looks like the lovely Maria has been a bit trigger happy with the delete post button. Makes this thread look a bit weird now...
15:34 May 4, 2009 by Mzungu
Just remember what was said about the idiot!

One day the different parts of the body were having an argument to see

which should be in charge.

The brain said, "I do all the thinking so I'm the most important and I

should be in charge."

The eyes said, "I see everything and let the rest of you know where we

are, so I'm the most important and I should be in charge."

The hands said, "Without me we wouldn't be able to pick anything up or

move anything. So I'm the most important and I should be in charge."

The stomach said, "I turn the food we eat into energy for the rest of

you. Without me, we'd starve. So I'm the most important and I should

be in charge."

The legs said, "Without me we wouldn't be able to move anywhere. So

I'm the most important and I should be in charge."

Then the arsehole said, "I think I should be in charge."

All the rest of the parts said, "YOU?!? You don't do anything! You're

not important! You can't be in charge."

So the arsehole closed up.

After a few days, the legs were all wobbly, the stomach was all

queasy, the hands were all shaky, the eyes were all watery, and the

brain was all cloudy.

They all agreed that they couldn't take any more of this and agreed to

put the arsehole in charge. And the moral of the story is?

You don't have to be the most important to be in charge, just an


15:34 May 4, 2009 by High Priestess Kang - Slut
:high fives Puffin:
15:36 May 4, 2009 by High Priestess Kang - Slut
No need to worry. I deliberately quoted her for the record.
15:39 May 4, 2009 by DidiE
I have a humble suggestion. What if every one on the whole planet each just took care of their own business, and let everyone else live in peace? Sound good? If you belong to a religion that thinks that homosexual behaviour is ...fill in the blank...on the Didi E planet, you would be allowed to think that, but you'd also have the obligation to mind your own business and refrain from posting really offensive stupidity.

Out of curiosity-- have any of you long time posters converted to Islam or Christianity or whatever because of any threads published here?
15:44 May 4, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
I think it'll relate to this...
15:47 May 4, 2009 by High Priestess Kang - Slut
See, Didi, this is why you are a much better person than I.

There is absolutely no way in hell that I would allow someone who thinks bigoted thoughts on Planet Kang - regardless of rationale (religion, etc...). The only intolerance accepted on Planet Kang is intolerance of the intolerant.

I know. I know. I'm being a meanie and a know-it-all but I cannot sit, idly by and listen to some half-wit spout hateful crap (not saying that you would) about something they don't understand. Hell - even if they do understand it, I'm still not going to condone the promotion of hatred (even if they attempt to disguise said hatred in funny jokes, etc...).

Sometimes - people are just phucking wrong. And if you're wrong and a hypocrite - well, that's just more fodder for me to chew on.
15:56 May 4, 2009 by DidiE
Yeeeeah. I feel ya. But the thing is, it would be beyond boring if we all thought exactly the same way. Unless everyone thought like you and me, and then it would be Paradise.

The thing is, I really do welcome dissent from my own thinking, although I hasten to add that I am always right, unless stated otherwise. I like considering other opinions about things like culture, food, the Right Way to Live, that high faluting stuff. I learn all kinds of cool stuff that way. What I don't understand, and I really am trying to, is why people keep posting stuff about Islam and Christianity here on the Local, and thinking that their postings will in the slightest affect the majority of habituees herein. In complete fairness, the looniest postings, at least in my opinion, have been from people proselytising for Islam. It makes me want to flee, as fast as I can, from such bigotry. It's not like I am not familiar with the pillars of Islam. Actually, I have worn hijab myself, for a memorable week a few months ago when I was in Tehran. I read the Koran. I read the Bible. The difference is, I live on Didi E World, where we all get to think for ourselves. My god don't like bullies. Sermon over, done, Amen.
16:05 May 4, 2009 by High Priestess Kang - Slut
Aaah. Well - I think you touched on something. Respectful dissent is always welcome. I find it an amazing way to learn.

With regard to the compulsion to, "evangelize" or seed - I have no idea why people think The Local is a wonderful venue for such behaviour. Maybe the well-earned reputation of a forum where intense discussions of buttplugs are welcome has permeated all corners of the internets? Maybe some people found out there are sinners among us?

I have absolutely no problem with religion. That said - I think religion is a personal decision that should be respected (which is sad because many in these parts cannot do that). I also find attempts to convert people absolutely disrespectful. What gives someone the right to presume that their faith is the absolute? There's no proof.

And - to tie this rant up with a pretty, little bow - when people trot out religion to condemn homosexuality, I find myself steaming with anger. Nothing screams hypocrisy like someone calling someone else a sinner (after all, is anyone in the position to judge?).

16:10 May 4, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
What I find hilarious is the fact that many of these judgemental Middle Easterners come into northern Europe (whether invited or not), feel happy to take advantage of our superior infrastructure and social systems without having the wherewithal to consider the fact they are in fact parasites.

Parasites is a strong word, I know, yet their parents did not previously invest over generations in the infrastructure we now enjoy, and lets be honest. Would a northern European receive and social assistance in any of their countries should we require it?

There aint any quid pro quo there Nancy Drew!

Further more I cannot help but think of it this way:

Gay folk usually pay the same tax as straight, yet don't get the same return as we typically will not have children that go through school.

Like Thatcher said to Europe, like Stewie said to Brian.

Where's ma money?
16:23 May 4, 2009 by Paulo +fab muscular than Jonnhy
Is it acceptable to advocate today in the name of dissent, freedom of thought & different opinion that, um, a black woman and a white man marriage is immoral?

What about slavery?

perv Homos of today were someone else in the past.
16:27 May 4, 2009 by Miss Kitten
Let's not become so tolerant that we tolerate intolerance.

It's endlessly frustrating to me how people of certain belief systems (Christian, Muslim,Vegan, or whatever) absolutely demand that their beliefs not only be tolerated but accommodated every step of the way, but these same people (like Maria) refuse to give the slightest amount of tolerance to any alternative systems of belief. They don't understand that respect and tolerance is a two way street. If you expect me to tolerate and respect you, than you have to tolerate and respect me. This really isn't a difficult concept. Most of the time, however, when you try to explain this simple idea, it's like beating one's head against a brick wall.
16:27 May 4, 2009 by High Priestess Kang - Slut
:slaps sense into Paulo:

Now - don't be foolish. Those people are just speaking from their heart and expressing their own opinions. You know, the defense that *everyone* is attributing to the homophobic Miss California.

What people fail to remember is that segregationists spoke from the heart in the South. Nazis spoke from the heart, too.
16:35 May 4, 2009 by Paulo +fab muscular than Jonnhy
But she isn't as much intolerant when it comes to sexual exploitation of women's image!

You've got to learn it, Kang - what I do or is part of my being either is absolutely ok anything else is subject to judgements based on my interpretation of the universal code of conduct of my community.
16:37 May 4, 2009 by DidiE
Hmmm. I am not sure your latest post feels peace, love, and fluffy bunnies to me either, MG, but if my sexual orientation was under attack by a tribe of witless gorms who cited one religious text or another, I'd be a little impatient with the straights, too.

On the other hand, when you pay taxes in a society like Sweden, you are helping educate a new generation of little Moslems, Christians and Jews, all of whom will be more tolerant and openminded than their nimrod parents appear to be. It's certainly worth investing in, eller hur?

Edited to ask Paulo: Huh? I don't understand. Please clarify?
16:55 May 4, 2009 by Inletwatcher
Humm Maria.. you claim that you are following muslem teaching... I am so sorry for you that you really believe such hate! **no that is a lie. I am not sorry.

You are just brainwashed. Not your fault where you were born, and what religion your family chose.

Don't you know that hating is such a waste of time/energy?? Why do you care who is gay and who is getting it up the shooter and who is not??

What does it matter, to you, if Billyboy and Sarahlee are gay?? Your lifeswork is to grab YOUR golden key to them pearly gates. No one is big enough to pass judgement but the big man. ***Saying that there really is a big man/woman and son,and they both watch with crossed arms and closed ears as peopld fall victim to horrible crimes agains humanity.

Is that not right Maria?

Are you in secret secret, curious of your "sisters" and what is under their burka? Are you in denial of your true feelings, so you feel the need to throw STONES?? You threw first.

You sing praises to your god with that same filthy mouth? Or does it not count, as you typed the nasty things..not actually said them outloud to my face. **please any day..any time.

And to answer your question, that was put out for all to answer, if I ever seen gay porn. Umm the real question should be..HOW do you know what is in gay porn? How do you know, without seeing for yourself..what gay porn is? Oh wait, they told you...thats right. Believe what you hear, not what you experience for your own self. Yes!!! gay porn is fun and really is exciting.

I can probably give you a few good titles to check out when no one is looking !!

It will be our little dirty secret Maria, okay??

Sorry if I am a bit crude. Today is day two of my non smoking.

Please feel free to read between my first and ring finger.

17:00 May 4, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
I'm really not the 'bunnies' kind. As for love and peace: I prefer them to hate and unreasoned attacks.

Spot on, but I would add, it's not just the minor matter of my sexuality these folks attack, it's my very right to exist.

Mmmmm, jury's still out on that one, as prejudices that are passed down, can for many, be hard to shake off, though out of all of them, give me the Jews any day. Hate seems to come less easy for them.
17:04 May 4, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica

<----Burka smiley agrees
17:05 May 4, 2009 by Princess P
What a lovely turn of phrase you have there.
17:08 May 4, 2009 by DidiE
I've gotten pissed off enough at Islam, at least as it is represented here, to look up the scholarly research about its origins. Are you ready for this? It was deliberately modeled after Judaism. Seriously. The Koran only came into existence about 160 years after Mohammed's death, and the guys touting the new religion needed a well organised ethos on which to model their own, while they picked and chose what they wanted in their new book.

Life is weird. L'Chaim. And here's to a new generation of people who are not afraid to look at things critically.
17:15 May 4, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
I'd also recently read that homosexuality was commonly accepted in Middle eastern cultures before the Victorian English turned up to spread their uptight prejudices...

So it turns out i've only got my own facking ancestors to blame for this nouveaux bigotry!

Who knew?
17:16 May 4, 2009 by Princess P
DidiE is gonna get stoned. Yeah! Now to get rid of Squiddy and Trivialand will me mine, all mine. Mwuuaaaaaahhhhh!
17:16 May 4, 2009 by DidiE
I say we build a giant-ass time machine and rectify all wrongs.

Come on gang. Who's with me?

Edited to add, let she, he, or it without sin be the first to cast, and make sure you toss it Princess' way. Trivialand is MINE baby!
17:17 May 4, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
Will there, or will there not be any crime solving shenanigans on the way?
17:20 May 4, 2009 by DidiE
Yup. I'll drive the Mystery Machine, you bring the scooby snacks, and we'll set History straight.

Wait a minute. I mean, We'll set History on its ass-sides? Eller---I'm going to take a walk and think about this one, MG. You are in charge.
17:22 May 4, 2009 by High Priestess Kang - Slut
Can't we have more of the magic phone booth thingy used in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure?
17:24 May 4, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
Gang, grab ya bed sheets, cuz guess where we're heading 1st???

Paulo, you're up next.

17:24 May 4, 2009 by Princess P
What happens if you do something that means your parents were never born? Eh? What then? EH?! Never thought of that one did you Mrs Iknowhowtocheatattrivia.
17:26 May 4, 2009 by Inletwatcher
It was the shooter thing, sorry Princess and anyone else who I made shudder..

My son said that that terminology is okay as it is not really a cussword.. but gets the point across with a bit of.. shall I say color? Sorry sorry again my Princess.

And Didie.. if we can go back in time...how far would it have to be???

Thought provoking thought methinks, ty.


PS where is Maria? she started all this.
17:28 May 4, 2009 by Querist
Freedom of Speech, even unpopular speech, is the 'bedrock' of any civilized society.

The greatest threat to freedom - is any protection against that which is considered noxious.

17:31 May 4, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
Probably strapping on the icecube bags she's filled with fertilizer and diesel fuel, before she takes a trip downtown to vent her bigoted fury.
17:50 May 4, 2009 by freethinker
Don't know where Maria would be. I had to scroll up to see that yes, Maria did start this thread. I think it's quite probable that people here are too intelligent for her? It seems she's unable to tolerate a difference. Hmmm...with luck maybe she'll realize the Western World is not her cup of tea and she'll return to which ever Islamic Country she came from. If she's originally Swede then perhaps she'll immegrate to such a country. Hmm...wonder how long it'll take reality to set in once she gets there. Oh well, some people have to learn the hard way..sighs....
17:54 May 4, 2009 by freethinker
I agree that even unpopular speach should be respected....to a point... please hear me out, I mean to say so long as someone does not incite people to riot and assault others then yes, freedom of speach must be protected. I just don't think people should be allowed to hide behind such a sentiment , so it can be used to threaten the freedoms and lives of others.
17:58 May 4, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
But about the subject that's on everyone's lips: Bottoms?

18:04 May 4, 2009 by freethinker
Hmm... Maria I understand you're of the Islamic Faith. You have a right to believe as you wish, to live as you wish. Please keep in mind that you're in Western lands now, and that we Westerners have a tradition of freewill, and freedom that Islamic Nations lack, in comparison to ours. We hopefully think freely, and independantly, at least in theory... We are taught to question everything from philosopy to willow trees. Though lately I've been pondering this question...which is the Secret to life...the chocolate chip cookie or the Oreo? Opps I digress, Keep in mind you're in the Western World please.
18:06 May 4, 2009 by freethinker
Bottoms? ok..lol do tell..lol ( I hope I don't regret this..lol )
18:14 May 4, 2009 by freethinker
hey everyone, I think for the most part we agree that people have a right to live their own lives. Now this is off topic yet, I've been pondering this question for well over a decade....which is the Secret to life? Is it the Chocolatechip cookie or the Oreo, and lately I've been contemplating the oatmeal raisen cookie. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
18:24 May 4, 2009 by Muttlestar Galactica
Not to mention you could virtually time an egg in the time it took her prophet's last wife to reach the age she lost her virginity.

But let's not labour the point on that old chestnut eh?
18:44 May 4, 2009 by High Priestess Kang - Slut
Having just returned from my weekly trek to Whole Foods, might I suggest the delightful oatmeal chocolate chip cookie?
18:49 May 4, 2009 by Paulo +fab muscular than Jonnhy
Coming soon folkz!

18:50 May 4, 2009 by Inletwatcher
Now are we talking some Chips 'Ahoy by Nabisco?

Tall glass of cool milk..yes its disgusting to drink another species milk..but well hell.

Mmmmm Milk and Chips 'Ahoy...

but wait.. are we talking double stuffed Oreos..or them over the top kind that are dipped in chocolate?.. Humm I shall make a taste test soon.

Thanks for making smiles out of hurts

COOKIES ! and lest not forget the board favorite.. shall I say it?


Grins and laughs

19:19 May 4, 2009 by Gwrhyr
Speaking of milk, my grandpa has always refused to drink milk for that exact reason.

But he loves oxtail soup and frog's legs...
19:54 May 4, 2009 by freethinker
Really? Well, that's cool. It leaves more milk and cookies for me : ) So YaY! to the grandpa who loves oxtail soup and frog's legs.
17:28 May 5, 2009 by Paulo +fab muscular than Jonnhy
*EVIL* kitty.
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