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Swedish extremists pose 'serious threat'

David Landes · 7 Jul 2009, 11:10

Published: 07 Jul 2009 11:10 GMT+02:00

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The study, commissioned by the government and carried out jointly by the National Council on Crime Prevention (Brottsförebyggande rådet - Brå) and the Swedish security service Säpo, also found that groups on the right and the left in Sweden are equally prone to violence.

“Political violence is equally likely on both sides,” Säpo analyst Johan Olsson told Svergies Radio (SR).

“There is roughly as much politically motivated violence from autonomous groups [on the left] as in the white-power movement.”

He added, however, that groups on the right have more members with "experience in deadly violence and greater access to firearms and explosives".

While the size of Sweden’s political extremist movements is roughly the same of those found in Germany or Denmark when measured on a per capita basis, the report found that left- and right-wing groups in Sweden are more prone to violence.

Members of the Swedish white power movement, for example, have a greater tendency to arm themselves, while left-wing extremists in Sweden are more clearly focused on systematically attacking elected officials.

According to the report, political violence is a phenomenon most likely to be carried out by young people.

Of cases brought to court, the median age of those who commit political violence in Sweden is 20-years-old and none have involved crimes committed by anyone over the age of 25.

The report on violent political extremism and anti-democratic groups on the far-right and far-left was commissioned by the government in order to shed light on the problem and devise appropriate measures to prevent young people from engaging in political violence.

In accepting the report on Monday, Sweden’s Minister of Integration and Equality Nyamko Sabuni said it was time to recognize the detrimental effects of left-wing political violence.

“We have long distanced ourselves from the white power movement’s activities and violence, not least due to historical experiences. But for just as long we’ve romanticized and downplayed the violence that left-wing groups have inflicted on society’s representatives, calling it a youthful misunderstanding or freedom fighters who have gone too far,” she told SR.

Another sign of Swedes’ differing views toward left- and right-wing violence is the difference in the number of programmes designed to help people leave extremist groups.

While there are a number of support groups for people interested in leaving neo-Nazi and other nationalistic networks on the far-right, there are few resources available to those looking to distance themselves from left-wing extremists.

“As far as I know there is no support for those who want to leave left-wing extremist movements and that’s due in part to the fact that society hasn’t treated this sort of extremism with the same seriousness as right-wing extremism,” said Robert Öhrell from Exit, a Stockholm-based organization which gives advice and support to people wishing to leave right-wing groups, to SR.

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While the report shows that the actual number of people on the fringes of the right and the left who are engaged in violence is relatively small – about a hundred on each side – they have become increasingly violent.

Only a quarter of documented attacks are actually politically motivated, according to the study, with roughly an equal number of convictions for both sides in cases which make their way to a courtroom.

Despite their violent tendencies, neither groups on the right or the left have the desire or capacity to actually bring about a change in Sweden’s political system.

“Even if these groups aren’t currently a threat to our political system, they do pose a concrete threat to certain individuals. They are also a particular threat to political parties and a relatively dangerous threat to public order,” said Säpo director Anders Danielsson in a statement.

David Landes (david.landes@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

11:48 July 7, 2009 by Jan M
Societies that face up effectively to these sorts of threats, be they from the far left or the far right, adopt a 'carrot and stick' approach. By that I mean active incentives to leave these movements combined with significant resources allocated to law enforcement and security agencies to take them on. Sweden is provides incentives, support groups and social structures but needs to be more coherent in how it addresses these problems and occasionally use bigger sticks. There's currently a problem there and not just with tackling political extremism but also in how the legal system confronts (or doesn't) and punishes rape, murder and drugs offences.
12:15 July 7, 2009 by Sunshiner
This is true, but - as ALWAYS in this strange country of taboos, political correctness and social, ideological, anthropological anxiety - only part of the truth.

As is the case in several Western societies, much of the local extremism is actually imported and is dominated by Islamism and groups inspired by Islamism.

I pity the Swedes and their society (even though I do admire it too, to a certain degree).
13:41 July 7, 2009 by Xzion

Islam is not and was not extreaminst, infact US and EU proveked them to exploite global resources, afghan war is very good example when US make,programmed, armed talaban for their purpose.

current wave of extremizm is because of economic crises and long resession of sweden, swedish socity is geting lower and lower from last 20 years as compar to its contraparts like DK, Norway.
14:04 July 7, 2009 by dtes
they wanna talk about left and right but what about the middle eastern? as an atheist anarchist im caught in the middle of all this in fighting, a potential target by all three, i just want to live in an evolved society free from power struggles and exploitation, free from dogmatic slumber. i say replace it all with something sustainable and kind, something that can support us all without anyone being left under our feet or on our shoulders or behind us with a gun in our back. i just wanna garden, and barter and trade my work, my arts ive dedicated my life to mastering, i dont want this poison of a culture that is being forced down my throat from all sides. i dont believe im the only ONE that feels this way!
14:17 July 7, 2009 by justanotherexpat
dtes - you get my vote, mate :)
14:32 July 7, 2009 by magic1964
A lot of those extremist are just stupid bored people who get some good orgasm of violence....
14:33 July 7, 2009 by svenskdod

That is the utopian dream that most people in western Europe want. Sweden was on the way towards this until around 20 years ago. I am saddened to see most of these countries going the wrong way here. The political parties these days only have it half right, capitalism for the sake of capitalism doesn't work, communism for the sake of communism doesn't work, and well a totalitarian state never works either, this is self-explanatory.

We need a new approach that embraces the best aspects from all. There is unfortunately too many varied opinions on this, and a solution is slipping farther from our grasp. The golden age of western civilisation has gone, integration without integration has destroyed this. We have began the age of segregation. I hope there is a way back from the abyss; we are coming closer and closer to the edge. Someone needs to fix this.
14:53 July 7, 2009 by Holecutter > The Howl From He
Dictatorships works......keeps everyone and everything in order.

Fascism works...keeps those who have from those who have not

Apartheid worked......ditto the above

All are extreme methods for control of the masses

Without these political tools, you have indecision, ineffectual laws and weak approaches

Wars are the answer.

15:09 July 7, 2009 by magic1964
The problem is that Our police and justice use Disney methods....

Muslim extremist should be deported to islamic country..

Left wing extremist should be sent to Cuba or North Corea

Anarchist or Autonoms to Siberia...

Right wing to Congo...
15:13 July 7, 2009 by justanotherexpat
Right wing to Texas.......
15:14 July 7, 2009 by Rap43
Personally, I am fundamentally opposed to fundamentalists.
15:48 July 7, 2009 by Kaethar
You mean militant islamists? They're traditionally a part of the extremist left...

Anyway, it's great that Sabuni is finally waking up to the big picture! The fact that violence by the left-wing is usually ignored only fires up to the right-wing extremists. It's time to show that violence from no side is acceptable!
15:52 July 7, 2009 by occassional
Control immigration to this country and that will probably solve both problems.
17:07 July 7, 2009 by Xzion
@dtes i really can see buty in your mind, it is very peaceful. but others in same discussion are not like you , they belong to far left or far right.

sending all immigrants back is never possible, even you should be ready for more, EU need manpower 20Million in next 20 years. and 20million will not be alone , they will come with relations, cultuers, families, etc...

@svenskdod you are right golden age of west has gone and with this west should wakeup, fundalist, extreamist behaviour toward others(religions, cultuers, ) can take this loss 200-1000 years back in next 20 years.

we must learn to live with aLLLLLLLLLLL
17:13 July 7, 2009 by mkvgtired

Unfortunately virtually every major advancement would not exist with a barter system. There needs to be a free flow of global capital to facilitate advancement. Most diseases we have cured would still be rampant. Most technology (including the computer you are on now) would not have been invented. Nor the data lines necessary to power the internet (they are EXTREMELY expensive). Healthcare would not exist (hospitals only need their roof thatched or their grass cut so often). This type of lifestyle may work in a commune, but it is unrealistic to try to get an entire country to work off this model.
17:36 July 7, 2009 by Johan A Stock-Homer
Hey, there are basicly no right-wing violent extremists.

They are all left-wing. White-supremacist groups are lefties too.
22:57 July 7, 2009 by Playmaker
It seems like there is only leftist that love to make headlines and fight. is it not them who like to fight at the right wing march that is done legal with a permit and they like to go after the leaders so ofcourse the right arm them self should they not defend themselfs. the islamist movement is the one to worry about the most. i can and will debate anyone with only facts with this point. just send a private m. sh*t i bet i can only use the koron to back up my evidence.

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

Winston Churchill
23:53 July 7, 2009 by magic1964
Lazyness and stupidity is a good cocktail to become extremist
00:13 July 8, 2009 by Playmaker
1. O ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers .... and let them find harshness in you. [Koran, Repentance: 123]

2. Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute. [Koran, Repentance: 29]

3. Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends.... whoso does that belongs not to God. [Koran, The House of Imram: 60]

4. If someone becomes a Muslim then apostatizes, he would be asked to repent; if he does not repent, he should be killed. [Imam al-Shafi'i, The Ordinances of the Qur'an (part 1, p. 289)]

5. Somebody may say: 'Do you want to deny freedom to people?' We say to him: 'If what is meant by freedom is to disbelieve in God's religion, or the freedom of infidelity and apostasy, then that freedom is abolished and we do not recognize it; we even call for its eradication, and we strive to oppress it. We declare that publicly and in daylight"' [Dr. Taha Jabir's, "The Islamic Society"
03:09 July 8, 2009 by jimmyjames
Excellent " Playmaker ".....I am surprised the censors have allowed your entry to stay. These quotes are,unfortuneatly, just a few that illustrate the truth about Islam. If you read the historical texts, individual letters, travel notes, ect. from the time when Islam was starting to sweep across North Africa and the Middle East you will see that it is extremely violent and encourages death, torture, and enslavement for all non-believers who refuse to submit. Furthermore, inside the majority of modern day Mosques the same mentality is aggressively promoted.....make no mistake...muslims are the enemy of all modern civilized industrilized nations. The people of Iran have finally realized the truth about their Ayatollas and are being murdered for their resistence to Islamic slavery.
09:27 July 8, 2009 by Xzion
i am testing again and again to post but policy is very ireanable and i will have to do lot of typo in order to post
10:50 July 8, 2009 by web_design

Quote complete verses in their context you will negate your point.


You are short on facts. All victors harassed, terrorized and enslaved who ever got into their way and Muslims were no different. If you think 1/5th of world population is extremist and promotes anti modern behavior in their places of worship this world would be far more dangerous to live in than it is today.
12:03 July 8, 2009 by Kind Man
Shame on you player! ISLAM IS PEACE and if you read History it was a non-Muslims who are famous for killing systems and killing millions.

Islam clearly tells you if you kill an innocent you will go to hell so?

Non-Muslims were famous for their cheating and breaking Promises on that time. They broke a few times the peace treaty with Muslims and Killed many innocents Muslims on that time.

123- O you who have conformed to Islam: wage war against the infidels who dwell in the adjacent towns round about you; they are a source of danger to you. Let them feel that you are rigorous, unbending, firm and stern but you must realize that Allah upholds those who entertain the profound reverence dutiful to Him.


You taking incorrect verse from the Islam haters and trying to foul people that Islam allow you to kill the non-Muslim? you must read history Islam means peace. and wherever Islamic troops went people were safe and sound. read history and compare it.

If anybody wants to read about the verse he is quoting please visit Islamic websites

http://www.islamic-council.com/qurane/tawba not Those fake Islamic sites which ran by Jews/extremists Christians.

You do your best but still Allah is more powerful and best planner. ISLAM is the fastest growing religion on the face of earth.

God is the Greatest.

Read about Islam hater who converted to ISLAM

15:25 July 8, 2009 by magic1964
"Islam clearly tells you if you kill an innocent you will go to hell so?"

The big question is: Who decide if the person in innocent or not ?? The islamic law of course and then I understand....

The prophète Mohamet himself killed hundreds of opponent who were not innocents of course....
15:56 July 8, 2009 by Xzion
@magic1964 we should live by the law, Mulims live by Quranic law and you live by public law. Mulims law is given by GOD and your law is given by no one or if i can say it is set of public assumption.

when we follow some law then offcourse we will punish those who dont live by law, Muslims killed not for eprialism, nationalism, power but for devine cause and in islam punishment is last option and not favoured practice.

now at this point you will definatly will think about valadity of quran that "is it a really a devine book" and i wecome you to judge , check it under establish science, more you will critisize more you will learn.
15:58 July 8, 2009 by Gwrhyr
These threads like this that show up on The Local are way too overdramatic. One article about extremists in Sweden suddenly turns into "Western civilization is dead", arguments about how societies should be fundamentally set up, and "Islam is the worst!", "No, Islam is the best!", "No, Islam is the worst!", "No, Islam is the best!".

Even if Swedish extremists are a bit more violent than Danish ones, extremist violence in Sweden isn't that big of a deal. It's only news because the comparison with other nations is interesting, but Swedish extremist violence is not tearing society apart, it's not ripping the foundations of Western civilization, and since this isn't such a big societal problem, we don't need Islam or Capitalism or Communism or fascism, or any other ideology to "save" Sweden from the abyss.

I mean how many of you have been attacked by a right wing or left wing mob? Despite these news reports, Sweden is a pretty peaceful country, especially compared to a large swathe of countries on Earth. So to everyone on this thread: calm down.

As for people thinking things were better twenty years ago, that just sounds like classic nostalgia or romanticism of the past. Every generation has to deal with that to some extent. The people who were born three years ago who have no memory of Sweden 20 years ago will probably feel the same way about the 2010's thirty years from now. All in all, people are being drama queens in this thread.
16:20 July 8, 2009 by Xzion
@Gwrhyr indded extreamism is not solution of anything, and civilization come and go like now EU is very similar with Roman in times after Marcus Aurelius(180 AD), their thinking about german people is almost similar what now EU thinks about immigrants and other cultuers & religions.

we should leran to live with aLLLLLLLLL in this globlize socity with a modrate thinkng.
16:23 July 8, 2009 by Kieruk
I think this thread is in need of cheesecake!

16:42 July 8, 2009 by Kaethar
And here is the problem with far too many muslims. Lack of respect for human law since you live by your own law. How would you feel if any non-muslim in a muslim country walked around topless? We aren't following your state law, after all, we're following our own law. Don't you realise how ridiculous this is? You need to follow OUR law. If you can't do this you must leave.
16:58 July 8, 2009 by Xzion
@Kaethar indeed ! law comes out of culture and political struggle of people, but befor pushing everybody back in orginal contry.

1:-we can have a debate , we can make our kids understand on reason and justice, because just public law without reason seems ireasnable for other religions and culture and we can share our cultuers,we can reduce our culture gaps.

2:-If you feel that Muslims have lack of respect for human law then i think those socalled muslims should be educated as a pay back, because west has exploited their religion for long. as Mulims did in Spain (711AD)

3:-now it is time of Globlization , we have time to help eachother , it is not possible for EU or for sweden to live without forign people, because industry,ICT, economy is based on outsourcing and

we will have to learn with aLLLLLLLLLLLL
17:35 July 8, 2009 by Kaethar
No. You should always follow Sweden's law without exceptions. If you don't wish to do so move to a country which practices sharia law. This has nothing to do with "cultural gaps."

I think that some muslims lack respect of human law (including you, apparently). Ah, you suggest we should forcibly teach muslims about our laws like the muslims did in Spain? Learning the law is a given of course and should be done on someone's own initiative. If you don't plan on following Sweden's law you should not be here. How and when has Sweden "exploited your religion?"

I think I'll quote this back at you. I have no problem with globalisation. Globalisation means acceptance and equality of all people which means secularism at state level. There is no place for religious dogma in a globalised world. So good luck with that.
17:54 July 8, 2009 by Xzion
Man always has a religion, you give it a name or not it is up to you. and i know what most of people know about sharia law, iwill go in details of media .

History of spain is open and if you want to deny then you can but artifacts, buildings and people tells a very good story of Muslim human rights at that time and europian barbarism.

whole swedish thinking remind me few dialogs from movie "fall of roman empire" Romans were having same atitude toward northen people what swedish people have with immigrants but histroy repates it self.

i will always try to make it more resonable for everybody not just for swedish poeple ,meanwhile i am living by this unwillingly.

I have to go but dont forget to watch this movie
18:22 July 8, 2009 by Ex-Viking
Do you have itch up in your ..? you wanna walk topless In Islamic country? That means you got no respect for their system and laws.
18:24 July 8, 2009 by Kaethar
Oh get over yourself. You know nothing about me. Man has always had religion as a way to explain the unexplainable. But now with science we have a way of explaining the previously unexplainable. Some choose to have faith to have "meaning" in their lives. Some choose not to.

Spain? Yes, I know everything about Spain under Islam. What many muslims conveniently choose to not mention is the status of non-muslims in Islamic Spain. The British imperialists in India did a lot of good too - they educated the population and improved the country's infrastructure. Why is imperialism then seen as a bad thing? Because the Indians had no choice in this. Same as with the Spanish in regard to the Islamic invaders.

Muslim human rights in Spain? Is it relevant? Not that I agree with your statement but do you really feel the need to go back 2000 years in history to prove that your religion respects human rights? Of course you do, because today it is not the case. Today no Islamic country respects human rights, and you know this. Hopefully one day you'll realise that political Islam has no place in the modern and globalised world.

So? Why should I follow their state law? It goes against my religious values.
18:27 July 8, 2009 by Ex-Viking
No Muslim Country interfere with the European systems, I hate to be Viking again.
18:29 July 8, 2009 by Ex-Viking
Would you tell us your religion ?
19:10 July 8, 2009 by Querist
From the Byzantine Emporer Manuel II Palaiologos...

"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached. God is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats... To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death." (emphasis mine)

Islam, by it's very nature - IS EXTREME.

20:12 July 8, 2009 by byke
"The study, commissioned by the government and carried out jointly by the National Council on Crime Prevention (Brottsförebyggande rådet - Brå) and the Swedish security service Säpo, also found that groups on the right and the left in Sweden are equally prone to violence."

What government wouldnt say this? .....

23:20 July 8, 2009 by Playmaker
Comment: innocent people are only muslims not non-belivers. there are thousands of quotes about killing. if you are muslim and want to switch to anything else it is a death penalty in many countries right now. Tabari IX:69 "Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us. Qur'an 2:191 "And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter." Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle." Qur'an:8:67 "It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land." Qur'an 9:3 "Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostals.
23:30 July 8, 2009 by Ex-Viking
Hej Islam-hater, hur mår du?
23:42 July 8, 2009 by Kaethar
I'm a Raëlian. It's important for me to be able to show as much skin as possible since I was created nude. It's natural and the way They want me to be. I therefore refuse to follow your oppressive laws.

Why would a government feel the need to say this? UNFOUNDED ACCUSATION.

23:55 July 8, 2009 by Ex-Viking
This religion looks like a stripper's religion. How can I remember my Lord If I am among these girls ... girls always take my attention from my Lord, I should go back to the sea

They are Raëlism, or The Raëlian movement hotties
00:15 July 9, 2009 by Kaethar
They're beautiful. This is how mankind is supposed to be. This is how we were at the beginning of time before the appearance of the Abrahamic religions.. We were born naked - why would God want us covered? It's irrational logic.

Your attention should not be on "your Lord." Your attention should be on humanity and the focus of which is human reproduction - the meaning of life. Sexuality is a gift from Them and we should enjoy their gift.

Anyway, now this conversation is going off-track... the point is that religious belief is a personal thing. Human law always comes before religious law. It has to. Do you wish for me to walk topless in Saudi Arabia? I have freedom to do so in Sweden (at pools ). I choose to live here because it's one of the most sexually liberated countries in the world. If Sweden's laws go against your values you should not be living here. Nothing excuses breaking Swedish law.
01:55 July 9, 2009 by jack sprat
Kaethar,...""I choose to live here because it's one of the most sexually liberated countries in the world. If Sweden's laws go against your values you should not be living here. Nothing excuses breaking Swedish law.""

If sexually liberated means the women are easy,...you are spot on.

If it means there are fewer sexual problems than elsewhere, you couldn't be further from the truth.

The Rape Capital of Europe,...proud title?

OK the criteria varies, but the figures are really bad, however you try to interpret them.

In addition, consider all the wierdos here committing sexual offences that most ppl.have never even heard of and the significant numbers of ppl.with major sexual hang-ups and you soon realize that your so called sexual liberation is almost as big a myth as all the nonesense about the perfect society.

You can fool some of the ppl. some of the time but not for very long.

As for Swedens laws which you mention,I wonder how long it will be, before the powers that be, realize that if laws are not enforced, there is not much point in having them, which brings us back towards the topic and a partial explanation for the rise in extremism.

Just hope somebody wakes up very soon before its too late.
02:52 July 9, 2009 by svenskdod

Please, you can't see the forest for the trees. Islam is not only violent and inhumane, but it is a contradiction, and hypocritical also. It sucks in the weak and helpless giving them false hopes, and shallow promises. It oppresses them into being controlled. How can one freely think, create and flourish under such control? Why is there such a thing as a suicide bomber in islamic extremism? If islam is not in any way violent, then why it there such a thing? Why were the embassies in Lebanon burnt down after the cartoon fiasco? Why were people murdered at the München Olympics? The list is endless... How can people maintain that islam is peaceful when there is overwhelming evidence that proves the contrary? If this was a court of law the jury would not even need time to deliberate. I am so sick of these false perspectives, and archaic beliefs. These are not examples of people protecting themselves, but evil murderers.

O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors (over the Muslims): They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust. Qur'an 5:51.

Another quote from a islamic website:

Allowing a Muslim man to marry a Christian or a Jewish woman, is an exceptional rule applied under special circumstances. And when a Muslim man marries a Christian or a Jewish woman, there is no problem, because he believes in all prophets, and all holy books. There will be no problem between him and his wife in this matter, especially that his religion -Islam- commands him to be fair with his wife even if she were Christian or Jewish. And any Muslim man going through such marriage should have strong belief in his faith, and should strongly abide by his religion.

The reason for forbidding a Muslim woman from marrying a non-Muslim, is that a Christian or a Jewish man believes only in his prophet, and doesn’t believe in prophet Mohamed Salla Allah Allih Wa Salam or any of the other prophets (blessing be upon them).

For example, when this Muslim woman, tries to teach her kids to love and respect all prophets and believe in all of them, her non-Muslim husband will not agree, because he believes only in his prophet. He will interfere in the way she raises her kids, and prevents her from raising them in an Islamic way. And here comes the real problem, because she will have only two options, whether she leaves the whole thing as it is, and does nothing about it -which will be an insult to her religion- or she argues about the matter, and this will sure lead to more marital problems.

On the other hand, there will be no such problems between a Muslim husband, and a non Muslim wife, because if this wife tried to teach her kids to love and believe in her prophet, her Muslim husband will not refuse that because he already believes in her prophet and all prophets. This is why Islam allows the marriage between Muslim man and non-Muslim woman, and forbids the marriage between Muslim woman, and non-Muslim man. Because Islam respects the marital relationship and wants to guarantee its stability, not because it respects men, and disrespects women …

I can not believe the high horse these people are sitting on. This basically states that Muslim men are better than non-muslim men, and that we are incapable of understanding or compassion. It is insane to think such rubbish, or to even listen to such nonsense. This is just another form of brainwashing.
12:56 July 9, 2009 by Playmaker
@ ex-viking or whoever is on her side.

Bara bra tack och du? I am i islam hater and proud. i do not consider myself racist since islam has no race. right. what race is islam. muhommed (may the devil rape him) is a war raider and it is proven. i do admit he was a great military leader in how he got people to do his will. he married a 6 or 7 year old girl when he was about 50. yeah great man. he talks of women Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."

yeah real good guy and religion the most peaceful on earth. lol
15:01 July 9, 2009 by Xzion
i hate to say but after a long historic time, EU thinking, barbrism, logic style nothing has changed but GOD is forgiving for me and for everybody.

it is trure that Islam again is fastest growing religion in world and also this time it is without any voilance, you can do research this time, that how voilantly it is growing.

and life has its end and science has no answers, and think for a moment if Quran is right then you will be nude in the end. hop i will keep my animal and my man/self seprate.
16:55 July 9, 2009 by Leecl
politics is a very intense subject and quite offten after months of shouting talking and more shouting a little deception from one side or the other attempts to bury the truth or change the facts to suit ones argument people forget what the original subject was and pretty soon our minds wander to the next big news headline

this is how modern day democracy and politics are run by the people we elect to serve us why do they run things this way

so we loose sight of the truth so they can keep us in the dark as much as possible and so they can get away with the things they do

all extremists no matter where they are from who they support are the result of government faliures and brain washing

if anyone is to blame for the rise in extremists it has to be the very people we vote in to serve protect and defend us

when you think about it all democracy is born from extremism war and bloodshed democracy is the will of the many imposed over the will of the few the system will never work
17:20 July 9, 2009 by Kaethar
"Easy" is a term used by the sexually conservative to blacklist the sexually liberated.

Define "problem." What you'd consider a problem isn't necessarily someone else's problem.

I see how it is. Because the victim is of course responsible for the rape.

You're turning into a bigger cliche by the minute. You're a muslim of the type that when all your arguments have been knocked down you turn to the old "Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world." Something which is impossible to prove by the way, and which does not prove us Islamo-critics wrong in either case. The growth of Islam is largely due to a high birth rate among muslims.

That's ironic since most educated muslims stress the importance of "Islamic science"... guess you're not the educated kind. That would explain a lot.

There are hundreds of religions. What if one of them is right and you are wrong? Your odds aren't the best. Humans are animals, by the way. Denying this is elevating yourself to a higher status of self-importance which is nothing but pure arrogance.

If a higher being wanted us to have clothes we wouldn't have been born naked. Clothes are man-made and come from material which does not exist in nature. This is obvious and it's your own problem if you cannot see it. The forbidden is always desired. If women cover their hair their hair is sexualised and men can become sexually aroused by seeing this hair. In a culture where women don't cover their hair the hair isn't sexualised and isn't as sexually attractive to men. In certain tribes in sub-Saharan Africa it's still common place for women to go topless. Breasts in these cultures are not sexualised and therefore men of these cultures do not get sexually aroused when seeing them. If you're raised in a culture where bare breasts are the norm they will appear natural to you and won't be something forbidden and exciting (and sexual).
18:00 July 9, 2009 by Xzion
valadity of islam is not my orgument it is my justification for its truth.because many like to be muslim, not jsut new born but their is big number of westrn muslims.

my full concern is life and there is no islamic scince, but science itself has no answers of many things , it is based on theories and assumptions when it talk about life.

here i mean science and athiesm has mixed its animal body and ethical body(self) but organic life starts with in here but our self does not end in here according Islamic techings.

hop we need lot of time to learn eachother properly.. take care
06:03 July 10, 2009 by Kaethar

The same can be said for all religions/cults/gangs. The fact that a rising number of people are joining Hell's Angels can hardly be used as evidence for what an amazing organisation it is.

I daresay Islamic scholars would disagree with you.

Science is based on evidence and fact. Of course, there are some theories, but no more so than religion itself is a theory. A major branch of Islam is dedicated to proving how Islam is a religion founded on scientific fact, which is why I find your comments ironic. For example, most educated muslims will try to give you scientific reasons why eating pork is bad for you instead of just saying: "Do it because the book tells you to." By backing their religious theories with scientific fact they make Islam more attractive to the educated majority. You fail as a missionary, my dear.

Come again?
13:14 July 10, 2009 by Xzion
I was trying to close this topic in above sentence on its first use two days ago but as you have revoke me again and again, and i see a very open anti Islamic behaviour which is also related to our topic "Swedish extremists pose" and because Islam is my ideology i will have to say something for my ideology and for requested interest, but i also wish to mansion that Islam is not any culture and i am not nationalist. so we will not discuss any sharia law which is applicable in Arabic culture but not in Swedish culture.

I think west has seen enough and west is young comparatively with Asia and Africa and i think now their ethical struggle has come to this point that they can not accept any wrong claim , in case of Islam social science ,post positivist science, is facing same challenges which are discussed by GOD in Quran.

Quran/Islam and science are two kinds of knowledge and islam don't have any own science, if you will read the Quran then you will know it is not book of science, it is book of ethics and it tells a that how life came, how it should be lived, and what will happen with life/you as self in the end. on other hand science trying to explore how system of universe is working and how we should live in here.

Theory of Big bang and theory of evolution are base of atheism, their one explanation which atheist people believe have lead to current ethical system. but at same time these theories not establish facts but their ethical result we see everyday.on other side Quran is agree with Big bang and evolution and its result product of ethical system is more family,nature, human friendly.

we Human have very establish natural systems but we don't have enough knowledge of it, i believe science is doing very good job but science is new in paranormal phenomenon even after this mostly science is agree with Quran. Islam was reveled as a very new scientific according common sense and most people of that time accepted even modern technologies of Rome, Egypt, Persia were could not resist. but with changing time Muslims could not maintain it reasonable in new cultures, new technologies. now when educated Muslim find scientific reason it invite others because he knew that already in THE Book.

by profession i am software engineer, and i know how few lines of programing language exist Real for observer, athiesm has one-sided observation, as human observer we know that somthing is missing in our life, in comming days science can give good explanation and i with many others are hopful

i know it will take some time to understand each other and dont be ethnocentric, we can learn much from each other, we will have leran to live with aLLLLLLLLLL
21:08 July 10, 2009 by preddo53
So tell me good people of Sweden, did you have these problems before you were in the EU, probably not. What 's happening in your country is happening in mine too, in fact it's happening all over Europe. Worry not, one day Europe will erupt, but let me tell you my friends, that is the plan, and up to now it's working. If you look to who to blame, look to the US and Germany, and a sprinkling of the UK. You are just pawns in a game. Hitler, the architect Of the Fascist European Union must be laughing in the face of God.
22:11 July 10, 2009 by locaxy
Seems like the only "good" extremism is anti-Islam extremism.

Sad really.
14:01 July 11, 2009 by Xzion
really sad , and it is because of media, every country have extremists but why media is just against Islam.
15:58 July 11, 2009 by Ex-Viking
Kaethar my striper lady, What about the disbaled and fat people in your religion is there any place for them ?

I am sure FAT AND DISBALED wouldnt get naked. your religion and this idea sucks it wouldnt work for 99% of ppl

but it works if ur young and if it sunny and you get naked I would love to come and see you then...
16:10 July 11, 2009 by Ex-Viking
Jag mår bra tack,

Playmaker what is your religion?

You pissed me off with your threads. I wanna turn into Viking again and rape your azz and rob your home,car and sell them to British museums. and would take your naked pictures sell them online for 1 kr.

We Vikings did not hate any religions we loved them all. We only hated if you had money and you would not share it with us yoyoyo :
19:32 July 11, 2009 by Kaethar
Care to tell me why? Malaysians follow sharia and they are not Arabs.

What on earth are you on about?

Yeah, I know what the Quran is about... I'm talking about muslim scholars and imams now though. And Islamic science is a major part of their teaching. See, most educated muslims realise science is truth. So they try to prove statements in the Quran and hadiths scientifically.

The theory of the big bang and evolution is NOT based on atheism. But you can't base a theory on another theory since there's no proof God exists. The evidence for evolution is there though and most muslims and christians I know certainly believe in evolution.

No. You think something is missing from your life. Don't speak for all of humanity.

How am I being ethno-centric? I find that it's mostly muslims who separate themselves from the rest in nearly cult-like proceedings. The use of the names brother/sister to other muslims and not non-muslims and the existence of dhimmi laws in a sharia state don't give a great view of Islam at all. It appears to be a very self-isolating religion. You speak of talking to people of different colours and ethnicities WITHIN Islam. Because of course - they're all muslims. How about the non-muslims?

All nudity is natural and beautiful. It's only you who have the wrong mentality. My religion would work for everyone, but it's up to the individual to recognise its truth. There are plenty of people who think like I do but who still haven't discovered the right faith for them.
15:06 July 12, 2009 by conboy
There is a fair amount of keyboard warrioring going on in this thread. It recalls something an old soldier said to me once in my younger days as a recruit "the thing with extremists is that how ever much apart they are on the surface the distance between them is always closer than their distance from the centre." I think his observation is relevant when it comes to extreme left wingers, right wingers and Islamic supremacists. Same shite accross the board!
18:18 July 12, 2009 by Kaethar
What am I?
19:59 July 13, 2009 by conboy
Well bud if you don't know by now I'd be the last man to throw a guess at your dilemna.
20:39 July 13, 2009 by Kaethar
I don't consider myself a left-winger, right-winger or Islamic supremacist.
23:02 July 13, 2009 by conboy
Good man yourself!
00:12 July 14, 2009 by locaxy
Have you considered widening your sample size?

Anecdotal evidence is just that: anecdotal evidence. Anything that derives from it is fallacious.

Are you for real? Go see how much love there is between a Shiite and a Sunni, a Hanbali and a Suffi, a Wahabi and all the above. Or between Lebanese and Jordanians, Iraqis and Iranians, Moroccans and Algerians, Saudis and the rest of the Arabic peninsula, "Arab" Sudanese and the southern folks, and come tell me with a straight face that there's anything resembling brotherhood.


Of course not! Islam's PR figures are currently raving Ayatollahs, suicidal Palestinians, cave-dwelling genocidal billionaires, and artist-stabbing murderers.

More to the point, a Sharia state has to have a social branch to which the Zakat (to which all Muslims with excess wealth - in the most literal sense of the term - contribute) goes. It also has an army in which every able-bodied man is enrolled. Considering that, why shouldn't non-Muslims living in that hypothetical state, contribute to the state's treasury?

"Dhimmi law" have no basis in Islamic theology as far as I'm concerned anyway. Just a political tool used by...you guessed it, political leaders.

As opposed to what? Judaism beats it by leaps and bounds as far as isolation is concerned.

I don't know how many Muslims you have frequented in the course of your life, but let me assure you that you aren't getting the full picture. Were you an American in the 19th century, you would have probably concluded that Taoism is self-isolating.
04:57 July 14, 2009 by Kaethar

No. I don't judge Islam based on muslims. I judge Islam based on Islamic theory. And I find most muslims stick to their own religious rules. Hey, most might not - what the hell do I know? But I am still perfectly capable of criticizing Islamic theology.

I hope you had fun with that. Now, go and study the Quran in detail and try to tell me with a straight face that brotherhood is not a major building block of Islam. Exclusion of non-muslims is a central part of the religion. I'm speaking of the Quran here too - not the hadiths.

Did you just read what I wrote? I'm not an idiot - I don't judge Islam by terrorists or fascist governments. I judge Islam by the book. What is a dhimmi if not a second-class citizen? Sharia law demands dhimmi-status for non-muslims. And sharia law does not only exist, as Xzion claims, in Arab countries. It can be questioned whether sharia law is necessary at state-level or if it's something only muslims should follow privately (and many muslims believe the latter too) - but on a global scale we can clearly see which method is being favoured, and it's a problem.

The problem is also that dhimmis are made to pay greater tax than muslims (as a way of convincing them to revert to Islam) and have less rights than muslims in a sharia state. Let's not forget that this refers to "people of the book," Now consider how Islam views polytheists and atheists...

Ah, the famous revisionism. Similar to the type used by the white nationalists I come across. The idea is changing or "re-interpreting" something which puts Islam in a negative light. Muhammed marrying a 9 year old is another one. Something which has been accepted for years but just now in the 80's and 90's some scholars suddenly started saying she was 18 or 19 instead. But guess what? That stuff will only fool the common sheep. Dhimmis are and were a central part to Islamic ideology within a sharia state. When it comes to the time of the global ummah this will be a reality again. Don't try to deny it. What I agree with you though is that this IS about politics, but Islam is also a political system and you can hardly claim that political Islamism isn't widespread.

As opposed to most religions. The Abrahamic religions (Islam, Judaism, Christianity) have been the most destructive and among the most self-isolating religions the world has ever seen.

Many. I was raised in the muslim world and have lived in many majority-muslim communities in the West.

I'm speaking of throughout history, not only during the past couple of hundred years...
08:50 July 14, 2009 by conboy
If the rest of us were keen to live in a muslim society we would have done so. Western societies traditions of free expression cannot accomodate sharia law within the legal system most western muslims appear to be able to live with this reality and indeed enjoy the freedoms it fundamentally offers. Those who can't, know where the exit gate is.
10:55 July 14, 2009 by Kaethar
Many do - for $$$. =P

True, but freedom of expression is already threatened by non-political institutions.

True, I'd say most Western muslims have respect for such institutions on an ideological level. But don't doubt that there are and will be clashes. Ever hear Voltaire's famous saying?

"I don't agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

And then compare to the muslim world's reactions to the Muhammed cartoons... In the West most demonstrations were peaceful but there were demonstrations calling for laws to prevent blasphemy of Muhammed. I find that when muslims (or other religious people) claim they are for freedom of speech they are - as long as it's something they agree with or something which does not offend them. Which isn't freedom of speech at all. It's clearly stated in the Quran that showing Muhammed's face (and insulting him) is strictly forbidden. So of course you're going to get reactions and no Western institutions of "free speech" will stop such people.

That's a rather simplistic outlook... What about the people who are born in said societies? What if they have roots in the West too and have converted to Islam? Should they just pack their bags and leave because they disagree with the norm?
22:17 July 16, 2009 by conboy
Well have you a better suggestion? In practical terms I take the view that people should never remain in place under conditions of intolerable pressure if they do not have an overwhelmingly practical and indeed philosophical interest in doing so.
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