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Swedes more positive toward immigrants: study

TT/Charlotte Webb · 29 Oct 2009, 13:54

Published: 29 Oct 2009 13:54 GMT+01:00

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In this year's issue of Mångfaldsbarometern, a sociological study by Uppsala University, around 67 percent of the Swedish population indicated having had positive experiences of working or studying with immigrants. Three years ago, the number was only 65 percent, according to Upsala Nya Tidning (UNT).

Among those with a lower level of education, the trend was reversed, with only 43 percent reporting positive experiences of working or studying with immigrants. In 2006, the number was 55 percent.

Amongst the highly educated, the number of positive responses has increased to 79 percent. The younger Swedish population also characterised their contact with immigrants in a more positive light than older citizens, according to UNT.

While positive attitudes towards immigrants have increased, negative attitudes have diminished to around ten percent. Four percent of the population remains extremely hostile to the idea of cultural diversity.

At the same time, Swedes increasingly suggest that the hijab should be banned in schools and workplaces and admit to regarding Muslim women as oppressed.

Story continues below…

1,016 Swedes participated in the study conducted by the Institution of Sociology at Uppsala University.

TT/Charlotte Webb (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

15:43 October 29, 2009 by princeally
its so pathetic and pittyful reading such an article thats only published to polish the swedish way of handling the immgrants interest, but the truth is its not what its written here. am a young guy from somalia and have been denied ressettlement here in sweden on fact that i come from a widely known tribe in somali. i wonder if thats what it means to be on an a asylum and if thats really what human rights is all about.UN shuold overlook the draft of human ressetlement and try help people when help is needed. NOT to publish articles to distribute news.the arguemnt of ressetlemt should be based on WHAT problem an individual has,rather than where he comes from...and matter of fact if its somalis.....what problems gets an individual despite what tribe he or she is from.

15:52 October 29, 2009 by Craptastical
princeally: What are you on about? The article was concerning the general Swedish population's views in a recent study, not of Migrationsverket's policies.

To respond to you being denied asylum or refugee status... Is it possible that because your tribe is so large that Migrationsverket doesn't feel that you will be as likely to be targeted, persecuted, or discriminated against while in your home country? I don't know for sure, but that's what it sounds like they're telling you.
16:11 October 29, 2009 by Kaethar
Asylum is for people whose lives are in danger. Since you come from a "widely known tribe" it surely doesn't sound like you're in danger. There are plenty of economic migrants from Somalia posing as refugees. You sure you're not one of them? Somalia is a hell on earth (no offence) but coming from a poverty-stricken country is not enough to grant you asylum.

And, as has been said, this report is about the Swedish populations views, not Migrationsverket. Migrationsverket actually tightened their rules because of the large number of people coming here for a better life and lying about being in danger. Tough luck, but that's how it is.
16:25 October 29, 2009 by peropaco
I wonder what would be the results if TL conducted the same study with its readers?
16:52 October 29, 2009 by efm
Well, this is encouraging. I'm sure the trend is same elsewhere. Women, the young, the more educated are more open minded and perhaps pragmatic. The lowly, un-educated, older,

insecure folks are less open to foreigners.

Obviously, if an immigrant is well educated and works with similar well educated local people, he or she will be in time,be more appreciated as a contributing member.

It is also the responsibility of the immigrant to fit in as much as possible. I would suggest adopt the culture of Sweden.

Speak Swedish and dress accordingly, dep. on the workplace.

I will even suggest dressing up better than the locals.Forget

the foreign clothes or head gears.
17:03 October 29, 2009 by Zatoichi
Yes, I assume you are positive that Sweden will be an Ilamic nation by 2049.
17:09 October 29, 2009 by peropaco

It shouldnt be that hard for an immigrant to dress better than the local svenxxon. And what do you mean forget the foreign clothes? So should they throwout their Christian Lacroix or Jean Paul Gaultier for the home made H&M? :-D))).
18:00 October 29, 2009 by SamQam
I second efm's comment.

As an immigrant myself. Immigration is only a problem if an immigrant fails to integrate.

The host country should encourage, and facilitate integration. Try to avoid isolating immigrants in cities or the suburbs as this is a recipe for disaster. Because if you are an immigrant and you only deal with same minded immigrants of course you will not integrate :-)

That said immigration has a multitude of benefits I will mention a couple here:

1- Enriches the host countries culture. Even the most integrated immigrants can contribute with new ideas as they have fresh eyes to look at the a society.

2- Fresh supply of labour especially in North Europe as the population is aging.

3- Improves the Gene Pool. It doesn't need much improving in Sweden in my opinion :-) but have you seen a half Somali \ half Swede lately :-)

So to my fellow immigrants If you don't like the culture of Sweden stay home 

And to my Swedish friends if you have immigrants in your area be nice to them 
18:02 October 29, 2009 by Pacey
Home Made HnM? From what I buy, which aint that much, they are mostly made in Bangladesh!!

Zara is much better although Spanish. Mouli should be a better comparison although to JPG but it doesnt come close!!

Anyways I think internationals dress much better than the Swedes, whose rag tag clothes just amazes me!! Just go on a tram some day, they will have just bought 500 Sek worth of stuff from system but would be wearing torn shoes. But from my experiences as well as my acquaintances, people dress better than the Swedes the Swedes get into a complex. More to do with being Narcissistic, I guess.
18:02 October 29, 2009 by Kevtravels
I'm sure if more immigrants were Swedenized all would be okay.
18:20 October 29, 2009 by spy
You can say what you want with statistics and using the numbers provided the headline and slant of the story could have been extremely different:

Over 30% of Swedes have not had a positive experience with immigrants.
19:13 October 29, 2009 by justanotherexpat
As usual, "immigrant" = "islamic".

Being a white European in Sweden - may as well call ourselves "white trash" because more often than not that is how we are treated.

My wife is going to change her name to Farzana Hussain - perhaps that way she'll at least get a damn interview for a job.......

Sweden more positive to immigrants? Yeah - but it depends where they're from.
19:21 October 29, 2009 by Uncle
Indeed finnish, german, french and british immigrants are doing a good job counterweighting the somalians, iraqis, afghanis and pakistanis.
19:32 October 29, 2009 by Khabibul35
justanotherexpat = a xenophobic immigrant... oh the paradox.
19:53 October 29, 2009 by calebian22
"There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics." -Mark Twain
20:39 October 29, 2009 by laura ka baal
its better to rule in hell rather then serving in heaven.
20:45 October 29, 2009 by insect

I completely agree with your sentiments and to add my two cents, I think integration works both ways. The part of Sweden where I live, most immigrants get their papers and immediately move to live with one relative, or another in Uppsala, Stockholm or Malmö.

When we finished Sva B our teacher asked what our plans were and 80% of my classmates were planning to move to one of the above mentioned towns. What more can Sweden do in terms of integration with its hands tied behind its back? Because if they stop them from moving to where they want, some organization will scream human rights and freedom of movement blah blah blah.


From the two groups on your scale, you should put this into consideration:

1. The first group come from a better life/country than the second group especially in terms of peace, opportunities etc

2. As for the second group, all most of them have know is hardship, suffering etc.

3. Colonization - First group and second group. Who is to blame for the others problems?

Both groups have two completely different psychological settings and should not be compared at all. Even their immigration status is not comparable, because the second group are called refugees, the first grou.....Im just sayin........
21:50 October 29, 2009 by Uncle

No argument. You are engaging into reasons and stating the obvious. I just pointed to a fact.

In regards to colonization - it was also in the most of Asia and (sort of) South America. Yet it is not the excuse for the millions from those regions to awake a great dislike in the countries that accept them...
22:36 October 29, 2009 by UKXPAT
Total rubbish.

To be accepted in sweden is to be swedish. It takes many generations.
22:40 October 29, 2009 by mkvgtired
SamQam, Good statement.
22:59 October 29, 2009 by jag2009
This is another crap article. Lets get one thing straight....

They come to UK, France, Germany, Sweden etc etc because they want to take. They don't give. Please tell me how a somalian has helped the swedish ecconomy? What skill has been introduced? Then we will have to deal with "their" culture, they won't integrate. Same problem all over. If it's a case of we need skills then train a swede up.
23:27 October 29, 2009 by Leprehcaun
"The number of Swedes reporting positive experiences with immigrants is on the rise."

HA! Hahaha.. Ahahaha! HAHAHAHAHAHA! I can't even read the rest of the article.. oh they got me at the first sentence.. HAHAHA! That's the most hilarious thing I've read or heard this month.. I mean.. just, just look at it!

"The number of Swedes reporting positive experiences with immigrants is on the rise."

HAhaHAha! :'D

First of all; to what agency do I report the phenomenon that I've had a pleasant.. hehe "a pleasant experience" with an immigrant? "A pleasant experience"... HAHAHA This is ridiculous, what moron came up with the idea to make such a study? How can it be considered to be needed?

(The following is a joke to point out how stupid this is) Is.. hehe.. is racism THAT bad? Really? Do we need to make a study that shows that there are people who have had pleasant experiences with human-like beings who weren't born here? A study to show that it is actually possible not to always feel scared half to death and furious by the sight of an immigrant?

I mean come on.. this is just stupid.. and really really funny. I'm still laughing.. What an embarrassing national tragedy this study is.. and to think that a newspaper wrote about it without even hinting at how preposterous and possibly scary it is that it has been made.
23:30 October 29, 2009 by Jack Lemon
Generally speaking majority of Swedes I met are more welcoming to a non-European foreigner compared with British people, based on my personal experience from living in both countries as a grad student.

However, as an immigrant I'm heading for North America just because the country I'm going to, has granted me permanent residency due to my previous professional and educational qualifications while I haven't even spent a day in my destination country! The point is, I had those qualifications even prior going to Sweden but I had to leave just because Sweden doors are open to asylum seekers rather than those who can bring competence and qualification to the country.

This is is more bothering when you see people like the one in the 1st comment are expecting Sweden to be even more generous to the asylum seekers than what already is right now. One may claim that's because of human rights. In that case, I still would ask why Sweden is not even likely to make a balance between asylum seekers and skilled works immigrants!?
23:55 October 29, 2009 by SamQam
@insect (Cool nickname by the way:-))

In a nutshell you cannot accept asylum seekers (Which are the hardest to integrate) without expecting to treat like them like you treat a Swede. I.e.invest in them, Educate them, Train them, and give them counselling .

If you do that I highly doubt they will fail to integrate. All of the above costs the tax payers a lot of money are the Swedish people willing to carry the Burden ???!!!?? The other option is to send them back to die !!

If you give them a substandard treatment you will only postpone the problem and get all the problems of a failed immigration policy.

So what I would do is improve the selection process to limit the acceptance to people who really, really need it. And invest more in those people instead of falling short on a bigger number. Also rich nations should do there outmost to help failing nations at home. Because the world is too small nowadays to ignore problems in other parts of it sooner or later it is going to hit you (Somali pirates is an example).
00:18 October 30, 2009 by Uncle
The first comment is not relevant to anything.

As for Somalians, they would like to come here in the amount of their entire population, since the place that THEY lived in got eeeh... slightly ruined (OF COURSE because of the white people, Bush, Satan, Britney Spears and everyone else except the Somalians themselves...). Not that they actually contribute anything to this economy, culture, science or music...

I do not even get WHY Sweden accepts Somalians. They were never colonized. Italy had them as a protectorate without any right to rule. It built Somalia all the infrastructure and then got kicked out by England. England did not stay there. Then Somalia attacked Ethiopia and got served. Since then - it is in a constant internal mess because of itself... Somalia did not get conquered, suppressed or blockaded. Every conflict there is whether internal and their little warlords are supported by groups of people or Somalia attacks a neighbor.

There is no reason to get refugees that (unlike the kurds, for example) do not have and do not WANT an education. Do not want to learn the language or to learn how to write in any language... Can not do anything since there is no technical knowledge. They cannot even open a goddamn pizzeria, because it requires work of 15 hours a day. Their mentality is that of a pre-roman tribesmen in regards to women and children rights, law, work (the concept of "being on time" is unclear to many)... They suffer here because "they do not have a job or respect". The country suffers from them because "they cannot do anything". They become frustrated, resort to crime, blame everyone except themselves, refuse to integrate, get stuck in the social security circle, which in turn frustrates Swedes.

Why the suffering? Let the African union take care of the ones threatened... It will be better for everyone.

And SamQam - what do you mean educate them? SFI/SAS/Schools/unis ARE for free. The psychology "They want work, so give them work. They want money, so give them money" has never worked. Sweden has one of the best infrastructures for "soft landing" for immigrants. They DO NOT WANT your education. They DO NOT WANT to work in a factory or library or whatever. They get better money from social security than from their wonderful performance at the workplace and they prevent their own women from working. You cannot chew everything for them. You cannot treat them as retards and wipe their noses all the time on the expense of the tax payers. They wanted to move here - THEY need to make an effort. They do not make it. So stop bringing them here, for Christ sake!
02:01 October 30, 2009 by max79
They left a few things out.


81% thinks that immigrants should adapt to Swedish culture, 64% thinks there are immigrant groups that cannot be integrated into Swedish society, etc...
02:57 October 30, 2009 by Typical Whitey
Sweden should look to Australia for immigration reform. You are not allowed in unless you have a skill that is needed, financially stable so you do not become a mooch on society, and in good health. I wish the USA would adopt these types of regulations - many of which were in place when millions of Europeans migrated here.
06:19 October 30, 2009 by Security
It's a common sense that there are good people in any nation and that people generally want to leave where they want. It's one life and one planet after all.

Somali people I met were either very intelligent, or very funny. But people that talk here about Somalies probably never had a friend or even talked to Somalian person. They judge by the difference in the look and culture, that's not fare. If you think you have point then go and tell to man what is that you don't like about him, buy him a coffee, or drink, do it in the friendly manner. Let him tell you what he doesn't like about you. Accept the joke.

Well if you don't know how to do it, then just shut the f. up or find a professional help for your introvert un-social behaviour and then do it.
07:14 October 30, 2009 by Uncle
Security - It is not about personal dislike... You have probably never talked to an SFI teacher, who has to teach them how to write in Swedish, when they cannot write in their own language. You have probably never heard about sub-saharan mentality of the non-importance of time schedules... You never talked to an employer who is not surprised if a somalian employee comes to work one-two hours late and then does not even understand what the problem is... You have never talked to anyone from child-refugees center in front of whom stood hundreds of 25-30 y/o somalians claiming that they are 16 y/o. What's the point of them being "nice and intelligent" if they are not qualified for any work, eh? They neither want to be qualified for work, because then they actually have to work.. What your nice conversation over coffee with every somalian in Sweden will give, you affectionate extrovert?
07:52 October 30, 2009 by vicarno
I agree with this article to some extent, as a graduate student from Africa. I have noticed a great level of cordial relationship/communicate with Swedish students, maybe the study environment could be a factor. Outside the four walls of the campus, the middle aged Swedes are not as friendly (I wont say hostile though) the younger ones are more easy-going.

@ Jack Lemon, I agreed with you completely regarding the attitude of the authority towards skilled proffessionals, its so laughable that the government gives free education and wants you to leave upon graduation. It beats my imagination, now most of these graduate students move to neighbouring Denmark, Canada, UK, Australia etc. They are accepted in largely because of their qualification and perceived as potential asset the host countries. Please can someone advise the Swedish government to keep these people in Sweden rather than spending millions of tax payers money on economic migrants who pose as refugee. Asylum should be granted to those who really need it.
09:00 October 30, 2009 by clearcut
They should publish a list to see "who" is the best immigrant.. Where do thet come from? Who is respecting rules and laws, learning swedish and paying taxes? I know that it might sound as discrimination, but the FACT is that immigrants are not all the same and I guess that nowadays a pre-selection must be done.

09:41 October 30, 2009 by jose_s
there should be a program set by immigrants who have successfully worked their way into the system and have been able to make something of themselves. it should be some kind of community service in which they repay the help they have received when they came to this country, all immigrants should be asked if they will at some point be willing to do community service... YES, and welcome to sweden.... NO, and sorry we cant help those that are not willing to help back...... well... just an idea...
11:32 October 30, 2009 by KamiZ
completely agree SamQam and insect...well said
11:51 October 30, 2009 by warriorwithin
I agree with vicarno, Indian students who come here follow the route you said. Get a degree without paying any tution fees here and move to other countries. Is sweden benifitting from this?

The ones who stay in Sweden are often in Big companies drawing a good salary and paying taxes. There is no system to asses that indians are better potential immigrants than a somali.

One has better chances of getting a work permit in Denmark with a good swedish degree. UK,US allows students who graduate in their country to stay there for an year to search for a job. But there is no such option here, when i graduate i leave sweden, giving me no time to search for jobs here. Having learnt designing stuffs in nanometer technologies from swedish Universities , i feel its of no help as swedes dont see a difference between someone like me and an afrikan/middle eastern islamic uneducated immigrant.
13:08 October 30, 2009 by Beynch
Charlotte Webb is clearly one of those pathetic, transparent, leftists with an agenda. Perhaps she's buddies with Nancy Pelosi? A mouthpiece for the extreme left, with halitosis. Wonder how much the Sahliness paid her to craft these fancy words? This kind of wordplay is so blatantly propagandist that it's laughable. The reality is something entirely different than this rosy, touchy-feely gibberish! And Swedes know better. Look at her sources, Mångfaldsbarometern, Uppsala University, bastions of solid leftist invective. This is propaganda of the high order. Goebbels and Stalin could not have done it more effectively. Think of this when you go to the polls in 2010. Defeat the left in 2010!
14:38 October 30, 2009 by will smith
@ Uncle ......... I completely agree with u.
16:55 October 30, 2009 by efm
The Swedish government should decide, their manpower needs,

what will benefit the country in the long term,, recruit and educate these people and ease them into the Swedish work force and society. That's good for the country!

Whether ,the local folks will like that or not is another thing. Folks may be insecure and start playing this race card or nativitistic attitude. That's bad for Sweden!

Sweden shouldj ust decide how many and what skilled people they need and go from there.
17:17 October 30, 2009 by Iftikhar_Ahmad
The demand for Muslim schools comes from parents who want their children a safe environment with an Islamic ethos.Parents see Muslim schools where children can develop their Islamic Identity where they won't feel

stigmatised for being Muslims and they can feel confident about their faith.

There is a belief among ethnic minority parens that the British schooling does not adequatly address their cultural needs. Failing to meet this need could result in feeling resentment among a group who already feel excluded. Setting up Muslim school is a defensive response.

State schools with monolingual teachers are not capable to teach English to bilingual Muslim children. Bilingual teachers are needed to teach English to such children along with their mother tongue. According to a number of studies, a child will not learn a second language if his first language is ignored.

Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual

Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. Muslims have the right to educate their children in an environment that suits their

culture. This notion of "integration", actually means "assimilation", by which people generally really mean "be more like me". That is not multiculturalism. In Sydney, Muslims were refused to build a Muslim school,

because of a protest by the residents. Yet a year later, permission was given for the building of a Catholic school and no protests from the residents. This clrearly shows the blatant hypocrisy, double standards and

racism. Christians oppose Muslim schools in western countries yet build their own religious schools.

British schooling and the British society is the home of institutional racism. The result is that Muslim children are unable to develop self-confidence and self-esteem, therefore, majority of them leave schools with low grades. Racism is deeply rooted in British society. Every native child is born with a gene or virus of racism, therefore, no law could change the attitudes of racism towards those who are different. It is not only the common man, even member of the royal family is involved in racism. The father of a Pakistani office cadet who was called a "Paki" by Prince Harry

has profoundly condemned his actions. He had felt proud when he met the Queen and the Prince of Wales at his son's passing out parade at Sandhurst

in 2006 but now felt upset after learning about the Prince's comments. Queen Victoria invited an Imam from India to teach her Urdu language. He was highly respected by the Queen but other members of the royal family had no respect for him. He was forced to go back to India. His protrait is still in one of the royal places.

There are hundreds of state schools where Muslim pupils are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools with bilingual Muslim teachers. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school.

Iftikhar Ahmad
18:45 October 30, 2009 by Uncle
Oh, you are so right Ahmad. The arab/muslim society is SOOOO tolerant.

Muslims LOVE the buddhists, christians, jews, hindus that live nearby. Muslims accept conversion to any other religion without any problem. Women are so free in the tolerant muslim world. Arabs live in peace and love with the blacks from Ivory Coast to Sudan.

Children get the best possible education without any violence or aggression in the muslim world. The sharia law is merciful and gays are accepted without any question by every muslim country.

It is the evil - racist white brits who suppress the little, peace loving, fully integrated muslims. It is them, these intolerant SOB's, who make the muslims suffer after the muslims gave the evil brits the present of their wonderful presence in the evil English island.

I agree. IMHO - there is no place to any non-muslim person in the holy muslim schools. It is just one thing I would like to adjust. 100% of these schools should be in muslim countries together with the all the students that are blessed by amazing and stable Islam. Leave the evil, racist brits to themselves to rot in their evil and non-tolerant country...
18:47 October 30, 2009 by spy
When in Rome. .
19:56 October 30, 2009 by SamQam
Reading some talkbacks about allowing only Skilled people.

Well skilled people were never the problem :-) In my opinion if you are skilled and experienced you can pick and choose were to live.

The problem is with the unskilled ones (not necessarily to their fault). I think that each country should come up with a quota system for each skilled immigrant you allow 3 unskilled
21:00 October 30, 2009 by efm
The problem is that a country needs only a given number of very skilled people(Phd, MD, Ms astro physicists etc). But it also needs common labor type people.( Farmers, factory workers,

street cleaners, bus drivers, clerical workers, etc. )So a country need to decide and honestly count how much labor and skilled people it needs.

To say that Sweden should allow only folks with a BS or master's or doctorate degree to the country is a complete mistake as later it is going to crowd out the remaining jobs for local educated people as well.

Thus if it needs labor type people, then it shall be, but the immigrants should be willing to play by the rules and work as hired.
21:02 October 30, 2009 by Uncle
SamQam. Although your comment may seem like absolutely crazy, but this is the reality. Every skilled german supports the lives of 3 unskilled immigrants. Of course it causes every forth german to wish to leave his own country... but what the hell, if the unskilled ones are enjoying the country...

In my opinion, for every 3 skilled ones the country should allow 1 unskilled immigrant. But maybe I am wrong and the quality of life of Swedes in Sweden is less important than the quality of life of Somalians...

What is ridiculous is that when the most skilled Jews (scientists, musicians, artists, writers) were coming to Sweden from the Nazi Germany in the 30's, they were refused as a lower race and sent back to end up in Birkenau ovens... So Sweden repays that mistake with accepting the most unskilled muslim population from wherever country that would allow them to exit. Like refusing the hand of the beautiful, smart, rich and admiring girl that was beaten to death by her boyfriend and begging for the heart of a drugged, fat, ugly hooker to repay the sin.. Pathetic
21:20 October 30, 2009 by Weird_X

i totally agree with you.

this article is just another example of 'brainwashing sweden'. most of the swedes i have met have told me how sick they are of sweden's immigration policy. and no, they were not uneducated and old! ;-)
21:51 October 30, 2009 by BLADESKATER00
This article is a red herring--immigration is ruining Sweden much like it is with other countries! The Muslim Trojan Horse--is a ticking bomb--they are waiting until thier numbers are sufficient to force their way of life on everyone else! Ask yourself this, how did Sweden do before the Muslim immigration? how is Sweden doing now with this Muslim Trojan Horse? Sweden is not doing better--Muslim culture is not doing anything good for Sweden!
22:15 October 30, 2009 by Davyboy
Any beeding heart liberals who think immigration is all lovey dovey, just watch this 10 minute programme:- go to You Tube and type in 'Resisting sharia in UK-EDL & BNP'.

This is what the UK is like TODAY. We have 60 million people here and it has been said that within 25 years we could be a minority in our own country. Sweden has approx 9.1 million, if you want to see what Sweden could be like in 10 years, watch the You Tube film. Swedish culture and way of life will be undermined and eventually destroyed if you have an open-door policy on immigration.

The UN Convention on asylum seekers states that theycan claim asylum in the first safe country. for Somalis that could be Jordan, Turkey etc, so why do they trravel across many safe countries to arrive in Sweden? Because Sweden, like the UK, (and they know it) is SOFT. However, the fact that they've travelled past by other safe countries to reach Sweden means that they've broken the laws, so technically they are illegal immigrants.
23:17 October 30, 2009 by spy

Are you serious? The BNP is a complete joke in Britain and their leader Nick Griffin made a total tosser out of himself on 'Question Time' earlier this month. I was impressed the BBC allowed him to appear as it showed a maturity of British freedom of speech and allowed him to demonstrate just what an evil little man he really is - by his own admission he is the most hated man in Britain.
00:17 October 31, 2009 by tonycobh
Thank you for the laugh guys... that bit about Somalis and Nigerians bringing 'needed skills' to Sweden. In these tough times the ability to laugh out loud is a true tonic.

keep it up!
10:16 October 31, 2009 by asim513
I wonder what people think about Sikh people, having turbans on their heads. Do you think they are oppressed by placing turbans on their heads?? And who is the oppressor?? In the same way Sikh women cover their heads with turbans or dupatta ( a loose cloth), what is the opinion about Sikh women??

In the same way Hindu women cover their head with dupatta (a loose cloth) or with their Sari. Even women prime minister and president, Indra Gandhi and Pratibha Patil, cover their heads. Now how you can claim that two oppressed women can reach the highest ranks??

In the same way female prime ministers in Pakistan and Bangladesh, Benazir Bhutto, khaleda zia and Sheikh Hasina, cover their heads. Labelling them oppressed seems ridiculous. There are Hundreds of thousand women working in Pakistan as Pilots, Doctors, Engineers, Nurses, Teachers, civil and military bureaucrats and majority (not all) like to cover their heads. Why the people oppose them to cover their head. Why don't respect their choice and impose your way of thinking on them???

I think Swedes are not well informed by the media about different cultures and customs in other parts of the world. Otherwise I find them very friendly and respecting other cultures. I hope my few words can be little information about other cultures which are far away from Sweden.


Asim, from Pakistan
16:40 October 31, 2009 by svenskdod
I am wondering if the assassination of Benazir Bhutto was a form of oppression? Being an immigrant myself I have to say that there are immigrants and then there are immigrants...

There are some genuinely oppressed peoples in the world, but leaving their countries does not help the cause. The only way to make change in the country is by overwhelming public outcry. This comes with sacrifice and often much bloodshed. In European countries this has been part of the history, you have paid your share in blood. Third world countries have been inhabited by people for less time that European ones. Why can they not get it right?

If you are in any way patriotic about your own country, if you have any self-respect or you think of your own cultural values are in any way worth being remembered, then stay at home and fight the fight. Coming to Sweden or any other free country as a refugee was designed as a temporary means of refuge against tyranny. If you want to live in Sweden then live by Sweden's rules, very simple. You have to also expect that your children or your children's children are going to expect the inalienable rights that every Swede upholds. Whether it be freedom to dress the way you want or marry who you want, it doesn't matter. This is a forgone conclusion.

The argument of skilled vs unskilled above is nonsense. Many skilled Swedish people have problems finding jobs, and this was an issue here before the economic downturn. In any country that has all education essentially free you are going to end up with an over-educated population. This leeds to some form of tertiary education for all job types. More unskilled people will just put unneeded pressure on the welfare state.

The situation now, unfortunately is that many of the peoples coming to Sweden are coming from a country where the mentality or ideology is very archaic. There is the kill or be killed, and women are worth less not allowed to be educated past a certain level. These forms of cultural enlightenment are incompatible with the Western model. It doesn't matter if you take Sweden or America (two very different countries in every sense) as your basis.

The unfortunate situation here is there are too many people in some form of power where they are ignorant in every sense of the word. I must bring up her majesty Mona Sahlin.

This article is leftist propaganda where the media has taken certain parts of a report that fit their ideological stance as a way of influencing the mundanes of Sweden.

In my experiences here in Sweden over a great range of demographics, Swedes are getting sick and tired of the governments stance on these issues. The dinner table is where people tend to open up. There are some hard questions and problems that the government evade at every chance.

Sweden needs stronger leadership that are not afraid of the difficult decisions. These decisions may make some foreign nations unhappy, but they answer to the Swedish people not the world.
17:39 October 31, 2009 by asim513
Killing of Benazir Bhutto or Indira Gandhi are political issues not anything related to women oppression.

I have spent some time in Dubai and I have seen people of all religions and cultures living there. Everyone lives according to his/her own culture or beliefs. Arabs do not ask others to live according to Arab culture and this does not harm the country but make it more rich in culture and diversity. (I don't mean that they have no problem)

In my experience, in Sweden people are very tolerant and cooperating but here on these forums I find some people expressing the views that go against what I see in general.
17:54 October 31, 2009 by Texrusso
Well, no matter what you guys say or think, Sweden is still the best Country in Europe for immigrants to live. If you complain too much, maybe you should visit RACIST FINLAND just for one month :-) and get a taste of what racism is all about. Long live the Kingdom of Sweden! Long Live the people of Sweden!
17:59 October 31, 2009 by svenskdod
It's funny that people bring up Dubai often here, were their neighbour Saudi is quite different all together. Or what about Iran, or most of the other countries in that region?

Have you ever thought that maybe the people coming to Dubai are conforming to the laws of that country because that is what the rest of the world believes. A countries laws must be upheld.

Whereas people coming to Sweden think that their laws still apply here and give little regard for the laws of this country. Look at the movement in Malmö where local Religious leaders want to be able to govern their people by Sharia law and not be subjected to common Swedish law. This is something that westerners traveling to Dubai would never expect.

Under the American constitution everyone is aloud to practise their own Religion. What happens however when that religion calls for the Murder and enslavement of others?

Oh if the world was Buddhist.......
18:19 October 31, 2009 by __john__
Frankly I'm happy to read that Swedish people have had good experiences with immigrants. Why have some people here got so upset about this? As a foreigner I was not sure how Swedes would view their experiences with my type, but I'm glad that it seems to be positive. In return, as an immigrant 100% of my experiences of Swedish people have been positive.

I can sympathize with almost none of the immigrants who have bad opinions of Sweden above. For those who have been educated for free and then sent away - hey, you just got educated for free!! I was also glad to hear that others had no sympathy for the first poster on this page - the argument seemed to be that everyone else has been let in so why not me, rather than these are my skills this is what I can offer.

I'm technically not a refugee but I do think of myself as fleeing a war-torn country troubled by segregation and oppression. Yup, Britain is pretty bad these days. I think Sweden have got things very right and it's natural to have a desire to protect this. Protect it before extremists start to try and protect it for you (Nick Griffin - what a muppet!!!)
18:48 October 31, 2009 by asim513
@ svenskdod

If someone talk about Japan it means Japan, it does not mean what happen in China or Russian or Korea.

Yes your are right, people confirm to the laws of the Dubai but not the traditions and culture.

I agree with you that people coming to Sweden must confirm to the laws of Sweden.

People of all religions commit violence. To increase the hate in world some people highlight some events more often.

Do you know the religion of Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mussolini, Slobodan Milosevic, Radovan Karadzic, Leopold II, Mao, Pol Pot, and Saddam.

Do you know the people of which religion make up the Irish Republican Army, Basque rebels, Al-Qaida, Tamil Tigers, Khalistan Liberation Force, Ku Klux Klan, Shiv Sena, and Bajrang Dal,

People of which relgion are responsible for Genocides and wars in Rwanda, Congo, Cambodia, Korea, Philippines, Vietnam, Iraq.......

I hope people are judged by their actions not their backgrounds.

Before making opinions, you must look at whole picture not just a specific incident.
20:14 October 31, 2009 by svenskdod

I agree totally.

Every single nation, religion, regime, and group on your lists have caused some form of unrest and atrocity.

The unfortunate thing here is that there are so many people that agree with and partake in said atrocities. The people who agree with this form of action are the problem. I call them mundanes, unfortunately they have little education or experience of the world, and are easily swung by populist ideologies without seeing the big picture or ever knowing the truth.

Getting back to the article, the story is obviously incomplete. If all the data was compared, I think the picture would be much deeper. We can not just look at these things as they are presented from one perspective.
21:29 October 31, 2009 by FluffyPuff
I feel....strange....reading this article. That sweden feels postive about immigrants in Sweden. I myself being an immigrant experience swedes as being polite as long as one doesnt try climbing up the ladder or wanting to be included in descision making within the workplace or "requesting" to be treated as an equal, regardless if one has educated themselves or not. Seen but not heard. And yes Ive accepted into my life some of the swedish traditions, to fit in so to say. I love sur strömming, and blood bread. I do the best I can with the language, unfortunately I probably wont ever lose my homeland accent. Luckily Ive never had to rely on financial help from the wellfare system. And yet, Im kept at a distance from about 98% of the people I meet even though Ive lived here for many years. I dont feel respected or that what I have to say is important. Im trying to plant my roots here but as someone said in a earlier message that it can take generations. Im not getting any younger and dont plan on having anymore children, which I know is how some people manage to connect with others. I really dont think it matters where someone comes from, or if they speak or dress perfect. I believe one should always be genuinely nice to others because you never know if that "immigrant" is in a postition to save your life someday and Im sure one would want to be on their best side. And one last thing, my grandmother taught me to treat others the way I would want them to treat me. Ive never asked but I wonder if the same saying is taught here in sweden.
21:37 October 31, 2009 by voidplay
The idea of individual thoughts and opinions are different from group opinions,

for instance the Japanese are very nice, friendly, show great interest in other cultures and .... But as a collective they are very different, and Sweden in my opinion not very far from Japan (probably because of its isolation so far).

And about the idea of 'intergration', it is something that does not happen. I come from India where there are many languages and cultures, and given that we move from one place to another and most of our collegues do not speak our native tongues, overtime we have lost the idea of being 'we' this is the real idea of 'intergration'. Ofcourse the swedes don't need 'others' but that is only until the others are all like N.Korea. When the chinese become the Japanese of tomorrow there is no way to pretend that they do not exist.

Even today there is no logic in pretending that you don't need the ME, Nigeria or even Pakistan or Bangladesh, where else do you get your oil from, to whom do you sell your Volvos/ Saabs, Telenors/ Telias/ Erricsson where else can you dump your weapons and act like you are doing them a favour.

To those european who feel like the rest of the world (third world) can not bring itself out of missery all of us have equal responsibility in what happens to the world. Let me take the case of Bofors scam that made Saab so famous in India, as 1 in a Billion I have less powers to stop corruption in my country as you(if you happen to be a Swede) as 1 in 8 million swedes in getting your govt to stop hand waving Saab everytime they become infamous because if not today someday soon it could mean a great deal.

And for that matter it is also serves to remember that weapons make up a significant portion of the western european exports to the third world countries.

I find it very difficult to digest the fact that the western intellects talk about Iran's staged democracy while turning a blind eye to the absence of such a concept in the 'friendlier' ME countries.
21:53 October 31, 2009 by quack
nonsense, article is just propaganda. and to be honest, i feel pitty for swedes, for they will be soon minority
00:46 November 1, 2009 by Kirk
Es tut mir leid.

Warum zum Teufel sind die Schweden so selbsmordgefährdet?
00:58 November 1, 2009 by Uncle
Asim-513. Really? REALLY?

You must be blind or just cynical.

Female expatriates cannot even open a bank account without a male companion. Alcohol to the foreigners is sold according to their salary slip, so the less the foreigner earns, the less he is allowed to buy. Anyone caught under the alcohol influence outside designated areas is thrown to jail on the spot.

Sunbathing is not allowed on certain days.

Being gay is not allowed in principle.

Kissing and holding hands is illegal in public areas. It is "advised" to tourists to wear "conservative" bathing clothing at the beaches. It is also "advised" for unmarried couples who live in the same hotel room to refer to each other as "husband and wife" to avoid report to the police.

More details in


Interesting to read about "tolerant" arabs. I can agree though that Dubai us the MOST liberal arab country. Others are much harsher.
20:17 November 2, 2009 by asim513
@ Uncle

The source that you mentioned is not credible. Even in this report, newspaper itself says that "The guidelines could not be confirmed" I have lived there for some time and i know at least what u mentioned in first paragraph is totally Wrong.

My purpose of mentioning Dubai was not meant to HURT your beliefs. I only mentioned Dubai to highlight the fact that different cultures can coexist given the flexibility in behaviors and respect of each other is the principle. I already mentioned in my comments before that Dubai has problems.

The real problem that we used to discuss was the Discrimination based on your country of Origin. There westerners are privileged so there will be NO noise in the news. I am sure......So if you want to criticize them, then you should keep this fact in mind. It will have more weight.....
16:22 November 3, 2009 by Dulcinea
What I don't understand, and I am NOT against immigration per say, is why are so many immigrating to Sweden in the first place? People immigrating for educational purposes should go back to their homeland's to try and improve the condition of their country of origin. Don't you think? Isn't that what Ghandi did? He was educated in England and then went back to India in hopes of liberating her?

Are all the people from countries below the equator going to abandon their lands and move North? Then we'll have empty continents???

I dunno.

PS: I'm American. With Swedish heritage *yay* :)
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