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Mentally ill man behind Gothenburg bomb scare

TT/The Local · 30 Oct 2009, 12:05

Published: 30 Oct 2009 07:47 GMT+01:00
Updated: 30 Oct 2009 12:05 GMT+01:00

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The belt was later shown to contain explosives.

The man has since been identified as a 61-year-old suffering from a psychological disorder and is known to the police.

Police were forced to close Linnégatan and evacuate restaurants in the vicinity at around 5.30pm on Thursday evening, after the man threatened to blow up the number 6 tram.

Police units were able to storm the tram carriage at the Linnégatan/Olivedalsgatan stop and promptly overpower the man.

They forced him to remove his clothing, arrested him and then took him to Sahlgrenska hospital.

"The passengers were evacuated without problems. No one was hurt," Frans Dahlén at Västra Götaland police told the TT news agency.

Bomb technicians have been able to conclude that the belt contained explosives. It could not however be detonated as the necessary electrical cables had not been correctly attached.

Traffic was seriously disrupted as a result of the police cordons covering the streets south of Linnéplatsen, one of the main thoroughfares in the western Swedish city.

The cordons were lifted at around 10pm and the city returned to normal.

The man is now suspected of attempted devastation endangering the public. He was also charged a month ago with firearms offences, according to a report in local newspaper Göteborgs -Posten on Friday morning.

Story continues below…

The charges date back to September 6th when police were called to the 61-year-old's home and were met with a note on the door which read: "I do not want any visits from neighbours. The situation has intensified. 357 Magnum!".

Police then persuaded the man to open his door, at which point he explained that he was not feeling too good and that he planned to commit suicide, reaching for a shotgun in his kitchen.

The man will be appointed with a public defender on Friday and a remand hearing will probably take place on Sunday, the newspaper reports.

TT/The Local (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

08:50 October 30, 2009 by clearcut
I think that this guy must be sent to the north pole with a functioning belt bomb and detonate him.
08:57 October 30, 2009 by karex
OMG - that's the tram I take on a daily basis! What's happening lately? Didn't the man mention any motive? Could it be like the "mystery Malmö man" trying to get attention, or was it just some stroke of luck that it was wrongly wired otherwise he would have detonated the thing? This is nuts.
09:02 October 30, 2009 by just a question
What I always miss in these kind of news is some kind of explanation of why people do these kind of things.

Was he unemployed? Was he nuts? Was he in a divorce? Who the hell is him?
09:09 October 30, 2009 by Suzie F
Well done Swedish police!
09:32 October 30, 2009 by Absolute
"They forced him to remove his clothing, arrested him and then took him to Sahlgrenska hospital"-

Shouldn't they be taking him to a police station or a jail instead of a hospital.
09:53 October 30, 2009 by stuscotland
He was obviously not well Absolute, not sure jail would of helped him much. So I guess hospital was the best place for him.

Just a question your remarks of him being unemployed?? so he decided to try and blow up a tram ? nuts? maybe he was ill, just think about it.

No wonder there are so many people in Göteborg who need help with societys stamp of dissaproval clearly being made here. Have some compassion !p
09:54 October 30, 2009 by karex

I think you have a point there. I have seen this happen before. It sometimes appears that in Sweden anyone who commits a crime is automatically assumed to be mentally ill. I get the impression that "normal" people would never commit a crime, therefore if you do you MUST be mentally ill... Maybe that's why there are so many criminals in mental institutions instead of prison, taking up needed space for the actually sick people who need the treatment? The poor patients many times are pumped full of pills and sent home instead of getting the proper care they need. There is one such case where I live. The poor man doesn't even seem to have a family who can help care for him.
10:01 October 30, 2009 by Kooritze
If this happened in the UK or USA it would be all over world news...........but as it happened here in Sweden.......nothing!

Makes you wonder!
10:03 October 30, 2009 by RoyceD
Anyone who threatens to blow up a bus does not actually intend to blow up a bus. They are demanding the attention of people. They want to be heard, they want to be listened to, and the last thing they want to do is actually hurt other people. A cry for help.

I still do not understand why when things like this happen people start pointing fingers at issues like religion, un employment, etc. People everywhere are becoming aware of the system we live in and some see no hope. So much so that they would want to kill themselves in protest.

Look at the system, not the individual.
10:19 October 30, 2009 by Iraniboy

While I agree that it's a very good decision to send him back home after a lengthy jail sentence, it is also approriate to do the same thing to you as you're prejudices don't fit to typical liberal Swedish values. What the hell you know he is Muslim?
10:25 October 30, 2009 by ahmedmerjan
He is ugly stuipped man he dont know muslim will .

sweden is most perfect , nice and peacfull country in the world
10:43 October 30, 2009 by KamiZ
this article doesn't even say if the man was an immigrant or a muslim. how can people just assume this? and even if he is an immigrant and a muslim this must be properly investigated and the police should find out the motives behind this kind of behaviour.
10:45 October 30, 2009 by Baned
What is this about? What was his motive? If the guy actually knew how to connect those wires, this could have been tragic. They better not sweep this story under the rug and not follow-up with the conclusion. This is a very serious matter!
10:45 October 30, 2009 by peropaco
Caribbean guy, I am very surprised you will automatically think the perpetrator is a Muslim. It is because you are together with a Swedish gal that some of the prejudice is rubbing off on you? Or it is that somehow you feel superior to a Muslim because you have crossed over the culture barrier? Please do tell
10:48 October 30, 2009 by insomni
While it's not fair to automatically assume he's a Muslim, one can understand how people jump to that conclusion after so many similar attacks by Islamists (you should understand this term before you assume it's a slur against ALL Muslims). Hopefully further reporting will reveal the man's motive, but the article could have at least said something like, "No motive is known at this time." Are we supposed to be uninterested in what drove the man to do this?

@RoyceD I reject your "cry for help / blame the system" argument completely. Bomb belts and the necessary equipment aren't for sale at the corner shop. It took time and premeditation to prepare for this attack, so it's hardly a typical suicide attempt. If the man was in fact driven by the most common motive for suicide attacks - Islamism - you can't blame "the system" for that. Such attacks are meant to terrify the populace and get them to urge their politicians to acquiesce to the terrorists' demands. And about this system… what would you prefer? What would give people more hope?
10:50 October 30, 2009 by Baned
Whether he was a native Swede or a new immigrant, he threatened the public. It's not just about getting him the help he needs, it's about making the general public safe from idiots! This "no harm, no foul" attitude has got to stop.
10:50 October 30, 2009 by Joshe
@antoniolgj, Caribbean guy/Swedish Gal...............You both started barking like abnormal dogs without knowing the facts.

Agree with Kamiz, there is no information yet about this stupid person, it can be a depressed/abnormal person who did it just get fame...just like the cartoon maker who portrayed Jesus and Muhammad just to earn cheap-fame.
10:52 October 30, 2009 by planethero
Very brave cops.

I was hoping to read it was a dummy belt, rather shocked that it was real, even if bodged.

11:00 October 30, 2009 by Skallywag
Caribbean guy/Swedish Gal

Come out of the closet you are hiding in Caribeanguy and try to defend your comment. You have gone very quiet since your stupid remark. I am sure you have been back here to check to see what other people have said. Honestly your comment belongs in the closet you are hiding in.

I am not a muslim but I just find assumptions like this annoying and assumption like this are better kept to yourself in the dark space you are hiding in.
11:02 October 30, 2009 by saad
@ religion haters

please dont abuse any religion as all religions are from GOD. and by the way terrorists have no religion (for those who think terrorism is from islam). Please understand this once we understand that terrorists are not from any religion than we can think of solution otherwise we shall start blaming each other specially muslims (as few of extremists in islam has hijacked islam for thier own selfishness and greed). I am also a muslim but i dont believe that any religion teachs brutality or killing. We all know that every religion has extremists elements and they use the name and kill innocent ppl.

For those who just know that islam teachs killing no never as Our Holy Prophet (PBUH) also mentioned and forcefully said killing one innocent life is as if you killed the whole humanity. why you guys see this why always blaming jsut because few people are doing for thier own purposes.

thank you very much and please try to understand the difference between religion and terrorism.

have a nice weekend

11:10 October 30, 2009 by krrodman
For the last 600 years society has been unable to decide what to do with criminals. Should they be put in jail? Can they be rehabilitated? Is a person who commits a violent crime mentally ill by definition? Are criminals the "victim" of a dysfunctional society?

No one has found a constructive solution to the problem of crime. Rehabilitation is a wonderful idea. The problem is it does not work. The recidivism rate for violent crime is too high to allow violent criminals back into society.

So, what do we do with our bomber? Certainly, he needs to be evaluated for mental illness. His antics may have been a very loud cry for help rather than a serious attempt to harm others. On the other hand, if he was serious about murdering other people, I say put him in jail and throw away the key. The next time, and there will be a next time, there may be blood all over the streets of Gothenberg.
11:13 October 30, 2009 by karex
I'm baffled as to how this issue yet again turned into a immigrant/religious debate. Neither are mentioned in the article. All we know so far is the gender: it was a man. It would be refreshing if people just stuck to commenting on relevant data for a change.
11:23 October 30, 2009 by insomni
@saad: First of all, and once again, we don't know if this man was a Muslim. Responding to your points, I don't hate your religion, I hate the actions of Islamists (again, this does not mean Muslims). They continue to use your religion to defend their murderous deeds. I'm a Christian and I would feel the same way about extremists somehow defending their crimes with the words of Jesus. But that's not happening on the scale that it does in Muslim communities, where extremists use the mosques as recruitment centers. While it's regrettable that many equate Islam with the actions of these extremists, it seems to me that true Muslims need to take back their faith by marginalizing these thugs. Easier said than done, of course, as the thugs use fear and intimidation to cow the more peaceful Muslims into silence.

@Joshe: "…it can be a depressed/abnormal person who did it just get fame...just like the cartoon maker who portrayed Jesus and Muhammad just to earn cheap-fame." I would hardly equate a cartoonist drawing something controversial with a guy strapping real bombs to his body and trying to kill civilians.
11:30 October 30, 2009 by just a question
This is why the police MUST inform about the identity of this man.

To avoid debates about if this person was Muslim, nuts, etc...

Why he did it and how the hell is it possible to get explosives so easily in Sweden.
11:46 October 30, 2009 by saad
@ insomni

well thank you for understanding but let me give you my point of view. this began from sept 9/11 attacks and most of us now know that it was a stage drama. few of the extremists in islam claim that they did that (image that what if some christian group would have taken the responsibility) nobody took care of solving the solution peacefully rather than US started killing innocent ppl in iraq and afghanistan. Now they are taking war in pakistan as well. I believe if US and its alais would have had done and took the matter peacfully and targeted only extremist groups.This wouldn't have had been done in this way. world would have been much much better place. as it was before 9/11 attacks.

the moral is we believe in peace and live and let others live in peace policy.

kind regards

11:54 October 30, 2009 by Guest
for those who can read swedish:

11:56 October 30, 2009 by Oskarsmamma
Regardless of what the man turns out to be - mentally ill, attention seeking, caucasian, Swedish, other European or Muslim - it matter not one jot.

What matters is he boarded a bus wearing explosives - premeditated action that could have resulted in the deaths of many innocent people going about their daily lives.

The softly-softly approach does not work with criminals and law-breakers. They just walk all over the system and the general law-abiding public.

Affirmative hard action is needed in such cases as this is not a cry for help - getting onto a bus with explosives is planned and therefore wilful action to cause harm to others.

Lets stop excusing violent crimes and intention to cause harm as anything other than what they are. True we don't know the mans background or ethnicity (not that that matters) but I can understand peoples immediate knee-jerk reaction that it could well be a terrorist. Not an unfair assumption considering events of the past few years, though not particularly nice to read about either - the instant condemning of others.

There are terrorists and militants in all walks of life and in all religions and races so lets keep the race row/immigrant row away from the discussion.

People need to be vigilant just going about their daily basis - I know I always look a bit closer at someone carrying a rucksack - these days you just don't know and this article proves that anything can/could happen at any time to anyone of us.

I agree too that the article leaves a lot out and that also makes it easy for speculation to happen.
12:10 October 30, 2009 by Guest
whatever he was (psycho, ill, desperate....), i must admit he is damn creative buddy. I been trying to own a 12-caliber rifle for 6 months and need to go through a series of tests and material BUT the guys produced privately.
12:31 October 30, 2009 by karex
So, the man suffers from a psychological disorder. Could he perhaps be a victim of getting pumped full of pills and sent home because the mental hospitals are over-booked with criminals and there's no room for him?
12:32 October 30, 2009 by Beynch
I'm just sorry it was on the No 6 tram. Why couldn't it have been the No 2?
13:00 October 30, 2009 by Aureliano Buendia
it was cool, sometimes i need to feel that swedes also live like other people, not like robots, to the work and back, no other functions...
14:18 October 30, 2009 by Kaethar
karex: Does a 61-year old leaving a note on his door that says "I do not want any visits from neighbours. The situation has intensified. 357 Magnum!" sound like a completely sane person to you?
14:40 October 30, 2009 by KamiZ
well to all the muslim haters - we have bad news indeed. the man's mentally ill. like i said before; don't assume things. wait for the facts to present themselves and then say anything.
15:06 October 30, 2009 by Uncle
RoyceD. What is this horrible system that we live in? Eh? All of this free medical services, 1.5 years paternity leave, huge salary+car for having fika every half an hour? Whenever criminals commit a crime some left wing liberals ALWAYS blame the horrid system. How about those millions who do not try to explode in trams? Do they live in different system?

"the last thing they want to do is actually hurt other people" I have an idea - how about pouring fuel all over yourself and threaten to burn yourself in protest? How about standing on a bridge and threatening to jump? How is having an explosive belt does not give you a hint of a slight will to hurt other people?

Perhaps all of these "criers for help" who shoot tens of people in highschools do not want to hurt others and the mystical "system" should be punished? Perhaps we shall let him go and return his rightfully owned explosive belt, because it is clearly the "system" that is guilty... We should put the "system" in jail instead...

What a joke.. All of this P.C. when there is a guy who ALMOST turned tens of people into a cloud of metal, blood and internal organs all over main street without any consideration for the cries for help from the kids that are ripped to pieces. But we shall not categorize him... We may insult his feelings and cause a grievance to him if we say that perhaps the fact that he was unfairly fired caused his actions... We shall all give him a hug and let him stay in our place and sing "Kymbaya my Lord" and "We Will Overcome".

HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SHOT BY A SNIPER WITH 7,62 CALIBER BULLET BETWEEN HIS EYES! Then, his property should have been sold to pay for the psychologists who now will be helping his victims for years to come!
15:48 October 30, 2009 by Pacey
I was on that Tram. What a harrowing experience. From what I saw, he was an old White fellow with a blue cardigan. The _hole kept on saying something in Swedish and then the Police stormed the tram. I still dont understand why they did not shoot him.

Take him to hospital , so next time he can put in practice his plan!! This is Sweden!!
15:56 October 30, 2009 by mkvgtired
saad, How would you propose the US "targeted only extremest groups"? The Taliban government in Afghanistan knowingly and willfully allowed extremest groups to reside and train there. I agree that Iraq should never have been invaded, but if you think a "peaceful" solution would have worked in Afghanistan with the Taliban government in place you must not know much about the group.

Also, I find it funny that no one is claiming the terrorists arrested in the US planning to attack targets in Copenhagen are "victims of American aggression." If terrorists are arrested abroad planning to attack America then they are all innocent victims. If they are planing to attack targets in Europe barely a peep.

As far as this story goes, anyone that straps real explosives to themselves and boards a crowded tram can not be treated as a victim.
16:35 October 30, 2009 by Norum
Something does not add up here....so he was known to the polis, they knew he had mental disorder and that he was charged before for a possession of a firearm....and yet, he was freely roaming the streets.

Seems like a cover up.
16:45 October 30, 2009 by just a question
Well, muslim haters, false alarm.

He was just one of this white-nuts-old men that we all see every day in Sweden.
17:19 October 30, 2009 by saad

hello which government you are talking about Qarzai he owns no government he is no less than a puppet of US (unfortunately). so their is no government in Afghanistan. Its US ruling there in Afghanistan and i am putting some words from resignation letter of US Foreign Service Officer Matthew P. Hoh who worked in US for years :

He said in his letter

"Our support for this kind of government, coupled with a misunderstanding of the insurgency's true nature, reminds me horribly of our involvement with South Vietnam; an unpopular and corrupt government we backed at the expense of our Nation's own internal peace, against an insurgency whose nationalism we arrogantly and ignorantly mistook as a rival to our own Cold War ideology."

source: http://original.antiwar.com/news/2009/10/27/resignation-letter-from-us-foreign-service-officer-matthew-p-hoh/

please don't see what you just want to see try to see what is going around you and why people are doing that.


17:25 October 30, 2009 by spy
If he had a slight suntan and this had taken place in the UK he would have had a dozen bullets in him within minutes.

Well done the Swedish polis - a good ending to the story but I only hope the medical services can keep him in the funny farm from now on.
17:29 October 30, 2009 by saad

well i also want to let you know that i am with humanity and also no religion teaches brutality and killing of innocent people. So we should not think and mix religion with terrorism as both are far apart. No connection in between them. We are just talking here as we all are peaceful loving creator of GOD. If somebody says he is with religion and also at the same time says he is terrorist than either he is mentally ill or very stupid. Both are mutually exclusive.

take care and have a gr8 weekend

17:29 October 30, 2009 by KipHamilton
Look, it seems probable that the man was not Muslim, with what information we have on how his attempted "suicide" was undertaken. But it is certainly not illogical or unreasonable for one to assume that the very real possibility is there of this being an Islamist "martyr" attempt. There have been many, many suicide bombings in the past few years, only a small pecentage of which were carried out by non-Muslims- mostly Tamil Tigers in Sri-Lanka. The Al-Aqsa "Martyrs" brigade regularly marches with dozens of young men proudly wearing suicide belts to demonstrate their up-coming "martyrdom".

Was this man Muslim? Probably not. Does one have to be a racist and Muslim hater when hearing such news to believe that there is a strong possibilty of a belted suicide bomber being a Muslim radical? Of course not.
17:40 October 30, 2009 by Chandan Khatri
Its really a shocking news for me to hear about such attack attempts in sweden. Swedish police must be alert for such things because it may harm us in future.

Person must be identified and need proper investigation on this matter there would have been some sort of planning behind this attempt, we have to be careful.

As far as muslim is concerned they are not terrorist, I am non muslim but it really hurts if someone points out any religion, though we heard about terrorists unfortunately most of them are muslims, but media has made bad reputation of muslims, usually suicide bombers are brain washed and then they are used for such stuff.

Central idea is by the Grace of God we survived this time but we have to be careful more and more and we public are the strength of sweden.

one more thing i want to add as few of comments were regarding health of that guy he may be disable but for such things they are using abnormal persons because normal person will not do such stupid activity, there must be proper investigation he must be identified.

Take Care readers.
17:47 October 30, 2009 by spy

Yes I agree and frankly immigration officials in all countries profile people and that includes Muslim countries too. The fact is that a young Muslim male is more likely to carry out a terrorist act than an old white female.

But.. there are many people on this site who like to bring Muslims into a negative light at every chance.
18:40 October 30, 2009 by Caribbean guy/Swedish Gal
who else straps themselves up with bombs and walk around trying to blow things up???

18:50 October 30, 2009 by spy
Mentally ill people evidentially.
18:52 October 30, 2009 by Uncle
I agree. Only COMPLETELY crazy guy on medication and police record does whatever some do on the daily basis... Who these may be?
19:46 October 30, 2009 by KipHamilton
I have to say that,in response to an above comment, I feel that all religions are mans' attempt to FIND God, not given to us BY God. If he is behind all religions, then he has an unfortunate sense of humor to present us with such a Tower of Babel. I cannot believe that, for instance, the ancient Aztec religion which required endless human sacrifices (up to 10,000 a day during some festivals) was of God. Some religions, as are some humans, seem to be more enlightened than others, and while I appreciate the moral sentiments of many religions, I can't buy into the mutually exclusive dogmas of most of them.
20:05 October 30, 2009 by "green Swede"
So if it had been wired correctly??????,my street,my usual tram,possibly my family on board as they are numerous times each week,the PR**K can be black white green,worship zeus or thor,be stark raving or not,just one thing,PLEEEASE let me pull the switch...in a heartbeat!the cops seemed up to speed for a change but so swedish bringing him to hospital directly before even evaluated,it'll be interesting to see the sentence he recieves,maybe 6mths,as 10 mths is only given if he'd slaughtered all the innocent people on board!
09:25 October 31, 2009 by Iraniboy
Thanks Pacey for information!

Now it explains why this news in not circulated in mainstream headline all around the world! BBC, CNN,... It doesn't fit to their typical criteria for a terrorist action. It should be a dark skin man from an Islamic country!

@ Carabiean guy/Antoniolgj,...and all of those people with those prejudices about being Muslim and sending him back home! How do you justify your extremely low moral values regarding your prejudices?
12:13 October 31, 2009 by peropaco
Shalom Iraniboy,

Dont wast your energy with those people.
13:51 October 31, 2009 by mostarboy77
It doesn't matter what religion is he! He commited a serious crime, luckily without big concequences. The court will now have to make propper charges and make sure that this man could NEVER again even TRY to threat other peoples lives!
14:51 October 31, 2009 by Querist
*This was a serious incident*

[memo to all journalists]: Who, What, Where, When and Why.

The five (5) Ws.

Welcome to Journalism 101.

17:13 October 31, 2009 by KipHamilton
Was he a Muslim? Well, turns out he wasn't. I can't imagine why anyone would consider that possibility. After all,radical Muslims don't do that sort of thing, while Lutherans have a well known history of detonating suicide belts, don't they? No, wait....
17:41 October 31, 2009 by Rick Methven
If this guy had been a real terrorist suicide bomber The way things happened would have been different.

A: the belt would have been connected properly so that it would work

B: He would not of threatened to blow himself/the tram up he would have just done .it

The way that the police reacted to the incident shows that from the first report they knew that this was a mentally disturbed man who was looking for help/attention.

But heck, why am I not surprised that the moment the story broke the regular suspects jumped out of the woodwork to cry Muslim Terrorist?
17:55 October 31, 2009 by KipHamilton
Rick- Well, to conclude that he was a Muslim would not be proper, and premature. But why wouldn't people assume the very real possibility it was a Muslim action, what with the well known and consistant use of suicide belts by radical Muslim terrorists in many parts of the world, and the almost non-existant use of them by non Muslims? While premature, it would not exactly be illogical to make that assumption, even if incorrect.Didn't it enter your mind, even if in the form of "I hope it wasn't a Muslim"?
19:55 October 31, 2009 by Iraniboy

The history you're talking about and the possibilities and poeple's assumptions are all defined based on what they hear and see in the medias. You probably would have never heard about this news if you just listen to CNN,BBC,..,Nor other people! So their history of terrorist attacks are just based on what they hear.

Many part of the world? lol go back and check your facts!
21:17 October 31, 2009 by KipHamilton
OK Iran Boy- If you will give me the liberty of including not just belted suicide bombers, but radical Muslim suicide murderers in in general (in order to include flying airplanes into buildings etc.) and, yes, many of these did involve suicide belts, I will give you a partial list from "many parts of the world". Here are some places; New York, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Kenya, Bali, London, Germany,Argentina, Israel, Lebanon, India, Thailand. I am sure I can come back with a number more if you want. Anyone care to add to them? Is this enough? And, with your great insites, can you give me a list of more than a handful (as opposed to hundreds, if not thousands) of suicide bombings not committed by Muslims?Come on- I really would like to know. LOL back at you.
01:25 November 1, 2009 by Uncle
Yemen, Sudan, Philippines, Cote d'Ivoire, Cyprus, East Timor, Indonesia - province of Ambon, Kurdistan, Nigeria, Chechnya, Moscow, Bangladesh, Tajiskistan, Egypt.

Actually Tamil tigers were committing quite a few suicide bombings. They are actually the developers of this cute method. However they used it mainly against military targets, whereas muslims actually purposely target civilians. Does not matter how much they moan about self tolerance and about "everybody are violent"... It is clear who is the aggressor.
03:16 November 1, 2009 by KipHamilton
Thanks for the additions, Uncle. I also forgot Madrid and Beslan. Funny how more places "worldwide" keep popping into my mind. The deniers here must be annoying to the Islamist terrorists themselves, as they are not giving the bombers credit for all their hard work.so, let me ask- when the Al Aqsa "martyrs" brigade march with their suicide belts, are they making a statement about their intentions, or is it like a halloween parade, all for fun?
09:01 November 1, 2009 by Iraniboy
@KiHamilton and Uncle

How many Muslims live on the earth? Roughly 1'000'000'000.

How many terrorist Muslims we have? 1000? 10'000?

If they are 10'000 then it means 0.01% of Muslims are trrorirsts. Isn't the rate of murdur, rape,.. equal to that among non-Muslims? Sorry but you should keep your numbers with yourself because they are shamefull and nonsence for any sober person. There are two possibilities for people like you. Either you just switch on the TV and what you hear most becomes what happens most!! Or you're just typical X-Haters who use this obscure situation to undermine X people despite you already know it's just fake.

I hope you belong to the former group.

That long list of countries you provided is not terrorism. For many of them it is either civili war or a foreign war. They are hardly qualified as tesrroirsm. With that regard, you should also include France, UK,... as terrorist states during WW2 !!!
09:30 November 1, 2009 by spy

You lose credibility when you try to link terrorism with allied efforts in the world wars.
12:54 November 1, 2009 by Iraniboy

I didn't. If you care to read my post you'll notice that I didn't. I said:" What goes in a war is not terrorism, even if it looks like that." So try again. Instead of reading between the lines, try to answer to my concerns.
14:39 November 1, 2009 by KipHamilton
Iraniboy- You miss my original point, which was not that the majority, or for that matter any significant percentages of Muslims are terrorists (I do question the percentages of sympathizers). My point is simply that it is not an unreasonable assumption, or a sign of racism or intolerance, when one hears of a belted suicide bomber, to believe that there is a pretty good chance he is a Muslim terrorist. Suicide belts have become a proudly tauted symbol of some Islamist terrorist groups. They have been used, yes, in "many places in the world" by Islamist terrorists, including, by the way, in blowing up Shiites in Iran and Iraq, which I would think would anger you a bit. Should one be certain and procaim that such an action is Islamist before the facts are all in? Of course not. Is it unreasonable to think that there is a strong possibility such an action is Islamist, given the history of such things? Of course not.
15:31 November 1, 2009 by Uncle

The usual excuse is "not every muslim is a terrorist" is not functioning anymore. It is true that there are not many terrorists. I would not say 10,000, given that only Chechnya and Afghani mountains count tens of thousands of "patriotic martyrs" but it is beside the point. You see, there is a big difference between Wehrmacht and Soviets. When germans invaded USSR, 4 million soldiers ran happily into surrender, hoping that Hitler is better than Stalin. Germans needed to advance and could not sustain such an amount of POW's. They started with executions.

When Germans could not deal with partisans, they eliminated all villages in the area. Killing civilians methods caused Soviets to turn on Germans in spite of their hatred of Stalin and pound the germans into dirt for the next 60 years. In addition, the Germans at WW2 are still depicted as the evil of all evils as a difference from Germans in WW1.

Another example. Hutu were killing Tutsis in millions. so now, when Hutu civilians are dying in millions from the chasing tutsis, nobody cares, because hutu are "evil".

This is where you are missing it.

Muslims are targeting civilians specifically. so far about 600 civilians died in Iraq not from american weapons.. but from the warring muslims. In first gulf war, Saddam was shooting very imprecise SCUDS on Israel just for the heck of it, without any involvement of Israel. In Yemen very precise rockets were used on mosques and other centers, where civilians were presumed hiding. There are thousands of examples where muslims resort to the german techniques of trying to break the spirit of the people. The only difference is that the germans were actually fighting real armies as well.

Read about the arguments in


You will also see the map of "other places in the world".
16:01 November 1, 2009 by Iraniboy

Like I said before, we only hear what we're told. This guy used this belt and none of these media reported it because it didn't fit to their proclaimed sotries of "man with explosive belt" to keep poeple believing in it.


You're again following the old trick by regarding Afghans and Chechnyans as terrorists. I don't sayt hey are right or weong. What I say is that they are operating as a part of war for land/power similar to what happened during WW2. It is much more different that blowing up a buisling in NYC or London. I hoped you can understand the difference by the example of French efforts in WW2.

"Muslims targetting civilians" is old Muslim haters argument without realizing similar stories. The facts is that people kill other people because of power/land/money. This is just an argument by Islamophobes to persue their other intentions.

That wiki link is no worth reading considering the fact that vast majority if these so-called Muslim terrorism is actually old-fashioned wars for land/money/power,...
16:33 November 1, 2009 by KipHamilton
Iraniboy-I do agree to an extent about the reporting issue. But let's take the example of Beslan considering your other point. Islamist Chechnyan "warriors" take over a school during a very sweet first day celebration. They hold parents and very young children hostage. When things go awry, they purposfully slaughter these children- blow them up, shoot them in their backs as they flee- and perhaps worse. So, because this was related to, and considered by the murderers part of the civil war in Chechnya, it doesn't count as terrorism? It was somehow appropriate action to take in a wartime situation? You see, the Islamists think that everything they do is excusable, because they are "at war" with "anti-Islamic" forces, which for them is a very inclusive net. Terrorism is not terrorism, whether it is blowing up trains in Madrid, buses in London or Children in Beslan, because to them, they are fighting a war against a widespread enemy.
17:30 November 1, 2009 by Iraniboy

That's an example of those who fight for a seperate country since the beginning of the history. Now they may call themselves Muslim, or they may call themselves something else. I think I'm just repeating myself now. I don't know why you don't get this obvious rationale.
00:26 November 2, 2009 by Authentica
@ most of the commentators asking " what was wrong with this guy" questions. Hello! The title says "Mentally ill man...", what more do you need to know about him? What I wanna know is why a mentally ill man is not in a soul-asylum? (permanently)
00:35 November 2, 2009 by Uncle
Iraniboy, you see, after the absolute craze of the WW2, it was decided by most countries in the world to follow certain rules of war. Not shooting paratroopers, children and other non-combatants, not cutting off heads of POWs, not use chemical weapons on civilians and other ridiculous stuff. It was decided that only the most remorse-deficient animals shall resort to these methods. What the muslims did (not all but the warring muslims) they took the laws of war one by one and did the opposite. Specifically the opposite, mind you.

They chose the unforgivable stuff (using hospitals/kindergartens as base of operation, dragging children after themselves to protect themselves from the western soldiers, cutting off heads of red cross nuns that are trying to help their nation, executing children in Beslan, Maalot and other places, used chemical weapons on civilians in Kurdistan etc. Even the germans did not resort to the methods that are publicly used by the muslims. At least the former tried to hide their actions from the public.

Then - people like you come and say that this sort of stuff was done in WW2. Absolutely irrelevant. War laws were accepted after WW2 - BECAUSE of WW2. Plus the WW2 most horrific methods were used by fascists - which is a bad excuse for the muslims. Murdering a child and calling it a war - it is a VERY bad excuse. Look what happened to the germans.

Slowly, but surely, even the left wing liberal rebel-loving left in Scandinavia (the most encouraging region of the german methods) is turning it's back to the muslims. Even the ever-working excuse "crusaders are a proof of similarity between Christianity and Islam" is not working any more... Because crusaders are out of fashion for some 1000 years. Since then MOST of the world advanced somewhere.

It is not a war, iraniboy. It is a police action against simple butchers, who do not need a reason to kill. Before 9/11 there was no war in Afghanistan. Before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait there was no Gulf war. Before kidnapping of Israeli border soldiers - there was no war in Lebanon in 2006. Before 9 years of missiles into Israel there was no war in Gaza. Before the building bombings in Moscow, there was no 2nd Chechen war (the first one was declared by secular chechens). As long as "infidels" walk the earth, there is no need in reasons for a war. There is also no need in laws for the war and everything goes. Just to compare - only an absolute lunatic in the west is capable of THREATENING to do whatever is accepted by muslims on everyday basis.

This is what you simply do not get.
14:03 November 2, 2009 by KipHamilton
Iraniboy- This is the basic problem. Whether it is fair or not, the growing anti-Islamic feelings of the west are fueled by this- when terrorists blow up trains in Madrid, busses in London or the twin Towers in New York, and proclaim these actions done in the name of Islam, many of us will take them at their word. It is not necessarily illogical to do so, even if unfair to the majority of Muslims, who just want to get on with their lives. Who can convince us otherwise? Not the government, not the UN,not peace activists; but other Muslims might be able to if they made the effort. Instead, we see very little, or no outrage at all by Muslims after repeated hideous Islamist terrorist attacks.Is it fair that peace loving Muslims should have to defend themselves in the public arena? No, but it is the only way they can counter growing suspicions about Islam. Instead, we get worldwide Muslim outrage about an innocuous speech made by the Pope quoting a Byzantine emperor, but little or nothing about suicide bombings, beheadings, acid attacks on schoolgirls etc., all procaimed as being done in the name of Islam. Can you blame us for a negative impression of Islam? Convince us otherwise.Convince us that in many cases your religion has been hijacked by extremists, by demonstrating your outrage at their murderous actions, and you might make some progress. Your silence,to us, rightly or wrongly, implies possible sympathy for the terrorists. Convince us.Demonstrate your condemnation. It is the only way.
20:51 November 2, 2009 by spy

I am not a Muslim hater in fact I often take a very different stance. However you do not make yourself look credible when you say:

'0.01% of Muslims are trrorirsts. Isn't the rate of murdur, rape,.. equal to that among non-Muslims?'

It is a fact that terrorism is in a very different league to all of these crimes and to compare them as such alienates you.
18:11 November 4, 2009 by mkvgtired
That was not my point. My point was the Taliban would still be in charge of Afghanistan if they did not invite the people there that planned the attacks on New York and Washington. The US did not go there for fun. Afghanistan has very little to offer, no oil, industry. It is a huge sinkhole for lives and dollars. What was Europe's peaceful response to the terrorist attacks there? Fund extremist immigrants' (via social assistance) terrorist training. European taxpayers pay for the training of people planning your (and my) extinction. How is this a better solution? Did a European peaceful solution stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons? Did it stop North Korea? Did it stop Libya from encroaching on international waters? Did it stop a genocide in Bosnia?

Does a peaceful solution entail releasing the two people captured in America planning attacks in Copenhagen? They were handcuffed and everything, clear human rights abuses.
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