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Swedish pension fund bars Israeli arms firm

AFP/The Local · 30 Mar 2010, 07:46

Published: 30 Mar 2010 07:46 GMT+02:00

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Following the lead of Norway's state pension fund, Första AP-Fonden said it had banned investment in Elbit because it had built and was operating a surveillance system for a controversial barrier between Israel and the West Bank.

"The Ethical Council recommended that Elbit Systems Ltd should be excluded from each portfolio because it deems that the company can be linked to violations of fundamental conventions and norms," it said in a statement.

Israel says the barrier - a network of walls, fences and closed military roads - is designed to prevent attacks. The Palestinians view it as an "apartheid wall" that carves off key parts of their future state.

Israel has so far completed 413 kilometres of the planned 709-kilometre barrier, according to UN figures.

When completed, 85 percent of the wall will have been built inside the West Bank, taking land from villages like Bilin and Nilin.

The international community has condemned Israel's decision to construct the barrier.

Story continues below…

The Swedish fund, which only had small investments in Elbit according to a spokeswoman, said that Grupo Ferrovial, PetroChina, Thales and Yahoo had successfully addressed its concerns about ethics violations.

Last September, Norway's state pension fund, one of the world's biggest investors, also banned Elbit from its portfolio, prompting the Israeli foreign ministry to summon Norway's ambassador in protest at the move.

AFP/The Local (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

08:26 March 30, 2010 by mehrdad1111
the fence system saved the lives of hunderts of israeli civilians. thats why antisemits hate it. sweden makes business with butchers in china and iran and can not claim to be a human rights respecting country.

sweden simply hates when jews refuse to let them killed without resistance. sweden does not care about the poor jews in malmö and their protection and it does not care about jews in israel and their protection.

borders? the "green line" is not a international border. its simply a cease fire line...thats it. borders must be discussed in a peace negotiation which arabs refuse because they "want it all".

anyway, in 30-40 years, sweden as a western country will stop to exist. swedistan is the future of the swedish people and because of thet they must please their new muslim lords by taking antisemitic actions.
08:59 March 30, 2010 by Nemesis
The way the Middle East is going, I would have thought that would have been a good long term investment for pension funds.
09:02 March 30, 2010 by bocale1
Hej mehrdad1111,

if you want to protect your house, I would expect you to build a wall in your house, not in your neighbor's properties, isn't it?

The rest of your message is pure fantasy... wake up, the world is a little different than what you see in your nightmares
09:30 March 30, 2010 by enlightened
mehrdad1111 (first post) attempts to distorts facts by claiming that the purpose of the wall is to save Jews from being killed by "terrorist" Palestinians. Here are some facts:

- The wall is built inside Palestinian territory and is deemed illegal by the United Nations.

- The wall disconnects otherwise contiguous Palestinian communities causing Palestinians to have to travel long distances and go through humiliating check points to carry on their daily business inside their own land.

- The wall protects illegal Israeli settlements inside the Palestinian territory. These settlements are illegal even by the standards of the United Sates - Israel strongest allies.

I personally do not oppose a wall between Israel and the West bank along the internationally recognized borders. It is a good way to keep the two sides from killing each other. But stealing your neighbor's land and building a wall inside it is criminal. I would add as criminal as suicide bombings. You have to think also of what motivates Israelis to risk their lives by settling in Palestine land amid obviously a hostile environment. The answer is: Religion.
09:34 March 30, 2010 by peropaco
Sweden, like Norway and the rest of Europe are so overwhelmed with islamofacist and this move is just another one of their tactics for appeasing Islam. Look at what happened in Moscow yesterday. They, the Russians are feeling once again the bite of the dog they feed. Each time the USA and the rest of the civilized nations tries to enact sanctions against Iran, the Russians try to block it. Maybe they don't realize the Persian regime supports terrorism and that those bombs used to yesterday probably came from Iran. Sweden, Israel is not the enemy. The Enemy is living amongst you. Take your investment and diversify it in Saudi or Iranian bond and maybe this move will save you from the Islamofacist fury.
09:34 March 30, 2010 by boby

I am deligthed with your post. I am actually going to take a print of it, so I can read it and smile after the first bus explodes in Malmo by a sucide bomber, following an attempt of Swedish police to enter Rosengard. After all Swedish have no business there, its Muslim terittoty and by all international laws, going in there it like an act of war.
09:47 March 30, 2010 by enlightened
To boby,

I am not sure I got your joke or attempt as sarcasm. Your analogy is invalid. If you have issues with the situation in the rough neighborhoods of Malmo than that has nothing to do with the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Or are you saying because there are terrorist Muslims who blow themselves up in Moscow, London, Madrid, etc then that gives Israel the right to steal Palestinian land? The land was occupied in 1967 and remained occupied well before the rise of Islamic extremism.

Anyway, I don't fear for Sweden as long as you maintain a noninterventionist policy. Your issues are more immigration related and have to do with bad immigration policy of accepting refugees with little or low education and failing to integrate them. Please don't use that to justify Israeli occupation. There is little in common between peaceful Sweden and apartheid Israel.
10:08 March 30, 2010 by boby
To enlightened

My point is that if the Palestinians decided that the west bank is theirs, backed with some self haters from the west, the same process can happen, and will happen in predominantly Muslim areas in Sweden. After all, there was never ever a Palestinian state, from which the land was occupied in 1967 

Will be fun to see Swedes under Sharia law… good luck with the Burkas!
10:16 March 30, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
Excellent news.

Well done Första AP-Fonden.

And kudos to 'enlightened' for his support for the rule of law and for the real victims here.

The Israeli apartheid wall is illegal under international law.

All claims of 'security' are invalid.

The whole problem with Israel and its neighbours is that it has stolen land continuously since 1947. No country or people would like that. And THAT IS the problem.
10:27 March 30, 2010 by enlightened

The United Nations not the Palestinians decided that the West Bank and Gaza are Palestinian land. If you have issue with that you can call for Sweden to withdraw from the UN. You will be in good company. Most right wing Americans wish to see the UN abolished and to have power dictate the rule of law.

Your fear of burkas is well justified, but again this is a different story. You are confusing issues together. Fundamental Islam originated in countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Iran and has nothing to do with Palestinians struggle for a home land.

Since you are invoking the Muslim population of Sweden in the argument with, I would tell you the following. Muslims in Sweden are immigrants while Palestinians and Jews have lived in historical Palestine for many millennia. However the overwhelming majority of Israeli Jews migrated from Europe after WWII.

Your obsession with burkas and Islam is causing you to sound a little ignorant.
10:40 March 30, 2010 by boby

Most of Palestinians in west bank are Arab work immigrants that came there, and other areas, in the early years of 20th century.

When Jews came to Israel, it was vastly empty, swamp land. Read testiments of e.g. Mark Twain from travles to Israel in the 19th century.

Arabs in Sweden and elsewhere are very relevant to the discussion, just like in Israel, when they are a majority in a certain area, they claim it for themesleves. Today its Israel and tomorrow its Sweden.
10:53 March 30, 2010 by honorable
mehrdad111 is right and no amount of insults will change this fact: there is no internationally recognized border between Israel and Judea-Samaria (also called West Bank or Palestinian territories), except for a few km around Jerusalem-West. There is only a cease-fire line. How do we know that? Resolution 242 does not specify any border line. Its up to negociations. Resolution 242 simply specifies that cannot keep all the territories occupied in 1967 (Israel has already left 91% of them, in surface area).

On the other hand, another resolution does not want Jerusalem-West to expand towards the North, the East or the South, which is crazy, but the "international community" is not immune to craziness: after all the "international community" thought, at some time, that the earth was flat, that continents don't move, that there cannot be mountains on the moon, that Jupiter cannot have satellites, and that everything must turn around the earth. The idea that Jerusalem,including the old city cannot be the capital of Israel is such a crazy idea whose craziness will one day be seen more clearly.
10:56 March 30, 2010 by Xcellent
i bet lars viiks must be drawing the "wall" as we speak !! lol
11:21 March 30, 2010 by Audrian
Israel is an apartheid state. Sweden and the world should put sanction on Sweden to save it from its destructive path.
11:31 March 30, 2010 by M-Larson
Well Done !

That's why I am very proud to be swede.

Next steps should be as follows:

1- Stand by UN Human Rights Council and vote in support of the Goldstone Report which it proves that Israel committed war crimes in Gaza.

2- Our troops in Afghanistan should return home, and we send aids + humanitarians to countries that suffer from natural disasters such as Haiti, Chili...

3- Follow up with the international community regarding the Armenian genocide. So that Turkey will apologize or pay back to the victims or those who suffered.

4- Do our best and push on the EU to make Turkey part of EU. So that would help to bridge nations.

5- Improve our economy.

6- Send back the iraqis refugees to Iraq (It seems safe nowadays). Of course, I mean those who live illegal and without papers.

7- Force (I really don't wanna sound harsh), but offer trainings and jobs to somali refugees, so they work and pay taxes.

8- Help Greece (That's what Sweden is known for!).

I know that it is hard to be perfect, but we ought to try. I would love to hear your creative ideas about how to help in making our country the best place in the world!
11:35 March 30, 2010 by Newyork-Växjö
Israel does not care about international law or respect law at all.

Israeli run the bulldozer over the American peace activist and killed her, Their government is cruel and nobody should contact with them or do business with such a dictator and barbaric government.

it is funny to see mehrdad1111 this Jew using a Persian or Muslim name and post in favour of criminals .

mehrdad1111 comes with your real name and post.
12:43 March 30, 2010 by Nordic Prince
@peropaco #17 "Then again I am sure you cannot leave cause you have to run the kebbab-pizza shop you came there to open"

You are so offensive and disgusting for saying that. If that person (Newyork-Växjö) is a lumpen, then, this is his problem and he got to deal with it and work on it.

But I completely do not appreciate that you are commenting on his profession which such professions most likely are forced on the person due to harsh conditions. Those people (Kebab sellers) who you disrespect are human beings and they are working hard and not living on welfare.

My dad fought with Finns in winter war against Russia, and when he returned Sweden he had nothing, So he started working and preparing Smörgåsbord. Now, His two sons (I and my brother) have engineering degrees, and deep down I believe that without my dad's support and his profession support I wouldn't be able to pull through.

So STOP being dirty jerk and judge and define people by their careers.
12:58 March 30, 2010 by peropaco
Nordic princes. And you are so blind like a rat in a hole that you completely ignore the offence Växjö boy made towards Merhdad. Let me post it again (it is funny to see mehrdad1111 this "Jew" using a Persian or Muslim name and post in favour of criminals .

Stop being an asz
13:00 March 30, 2010 by Newyork-Växjö

Did I say something wrong? Even If he is Iranian Jew, then there is much more different with Barbaric Jew who are building house on the stolen land and ignoring international law and killing peace activist female and shooting on them and running bulldozer over them.

No real person with heart would defend such a country or nation!

By the way I am not antisemitic so dont use this term on me to justify ur killing.

I do not think an Iranian Jew would talk against Iran or ask Israel to destroy them unless he is fake and say We israelis and US wants to have this weapon nobody else. So we can bomb countries like Japan and bombing everyday Gaza. but my Jewish friend It does not work like this.
13:24 March 30, 2010 by boby

Where you kicked out of new-york for not being able to speak or write in English?
13:26 March 30, 2010 by peropaco
Yes, Newjork, you said something wrong. You said "THIS JEW".. How do you know Merhdad practice judiasm?
13:33 March 30, 2010 by mehrdad1111

westbank and gaza are not part of any arab country. they were under arab ossupation between 1948-1967 (they did not tried to build a pally-state there in this time). as i said, borders of israel and the arab state #23 are part of negotiations.

and if you want a jew-free gaza and westbank like leftists and muslims, you have to accept it when israelis say that the 8000 pally in west-jerusalem and the 1.200.000 arabs in israel have also to leave israel.

arabs started this conflict 1948 and arabs tried everything to prevent a peace by rejecting israeli offers in 1967, 200 and 2008.
13:42 March 30, 2010 by Uncle
I did not even read through the antisemite sh!te of the usual islamist squad here.

I have a question to normal people - if palestinians want a separate state (or leaving apart from the jews) why is the wall bad in a sense of apartheid?

It freaking serves the wonderful goal of palestinians, right? There would be a big difference if paelestinians would like to stay in Israel, but are thrown out, right?

Should we call every country border as apartheid border?

As for the importance of building a wall on your own yard... The wall saves lives. Fact. it reduced suicide bombings enormously. So the need of a wall is not under question. The arab villages are getting paid for the land. Like for infrastructural building.

In Sweden - if a highway would go to my yard, the gov't would pay me and not listen to one word of what I have to say.

In addition, if they would not do suicide bombings, there would be no wall. If my neigbour shoots at me - I will build a bulletproof wall. if it does not fit on MY land, I will put it on HIS and not listen to his moaning about his precious land. Why not? Because he may kill me if I cannot fit it on my land and care about his property rights.

Of course one could also argue that palestinians are very loud about "their land", but when to comes to water, fuel, electricity, jobs etc - all of a sudden the great sharing virtue awakes within them and they would love to share all of the above with the horrible Israel, when even their countries of origin - Jordan and Egypt would not like to share anything with them...

In the case of Israeli wall - we are talking about meters within the territory line and is not real, but political issue.
13:50 March 30, 2010 by LailaC1
I'm with M Larson - the rest of you are very bitter. If you don't like it, maybe you should go somewhere else that supporst your beliefs. If Sweden is so terrible maybe you should't be here.
13:52 March 30, 2010 by Per Johansson52

Israeli Mossad is expert in duplicating names /passport/ BankID /internet forum.

We have to be agree with Newyorker.

You also mentioned a practical Jew, I hope you do not mean about those Jews who live on the Stolen-land who are practicing killing of innocent children in Gaza Lebanon eller killing abroad in Dubai.
13:53 March 30, 2010 by mehrdad1111
oh, something to add for this "end the occupation and everything is fine" naive europeans:

between 1948-1967, westbank, gaza and east jerusalem were occupied by arabs and made totaly "judenrein" by this islamofacists. and inspite this fact, we had hunderts of terror attacks on houses, buses, restaurants, airports....by fedajin-terrorists killing and wounding thousends of jewish civilians.

when will the last of you understand that its not about a "occupation". its about the facist ideology of islam which made their own countries jew-free and will never accept a tiny little jewish state in the middeeast!


i am an iranian, but not a jew. since i know that for people like you the word "jew" is a insult and they fall back to this insults when they run out of arguments, i dont care about it how you name me.

most of the iranians know that there are islamofacists who kill iranian people and who killed 250.000 iranians since 1979. most of the iranian people know that the pallys were on the side of saddam and that israel saved also iran by destroying saddam husseins nuclear plant. most of the iranians know that the mullahs depend on arabic hisbollah bastards which they bring into iran to attack and hurt iranians who demonstrate for freedom.

most of the iranians will not eat the attempts by you and islamofacists to divert their attention away from their crimes in iran to israel.
14:01 March 30, 2010 by Nordic Prince

I'm just wondering how come the diamonds' thieves (Dutch and British) build somehow a good/strong country (I mean: South Africa) hand in hand with Blacks? They have managed to overcome all racial, religious, backgrounds barriers.

Huh? I forgotten that Israelis come to Palestine holding the bible in the right hand and bunch of roses in the left hand. Indeed, that's why they used white phosphorus to burn kids in Gaza and it has been proven by Swedes that Israelis steal organs of Palestinians.

Ohhh come on, those Palestinians are the root of all the problems.
14:03 March 30, 2010 by Newyork-Växjö
Are you trying to justify the Crime of Israel against humanity by bring hisbaulllah or iran iraq war into subject.

it does not work like this. It was America who asked Iraq to attack Iran. you need to educated yourself about political games.

Come with your original name and post as a proud Jew.
14:06 March 30, 2010 by honorable
Shame on enlightened for writing such absurdities as: "But stealing your neighbor's land and building a wall inside it is as criminal as suicide bombings".

Totally, utterly shameful and void of any moral content.. Even more shameful when one considers that half the fence, if not more, il located on the cease-fire line and that the other half, or probably less, is located not on "stolen land" but in disputed territories. We will know on whose land this part of the fence is constructed ONLY after a peace treaty is signed. Not Before. If you do it befor, you PRESUME of the results of the peace agreement. Which is both unlogical and unfair.
14:06 March 30, 2010 by enlightened
It is interesting how Zionist sympathizers like mehrdad1111 distort facts. To some extent this is an example of the victor attempting to write or rewrite history. mehrdad and others want us to believe that Palestine was a barren land before the Jewish settlers came in to establish Israel. But unfortunately for you and for the Apartheid state you are defending facts and figures do not support your story.

There are estimated 4 million Palestinian refugees world wide, another 4 million in the Palestinian territories and about 1.2 Arab Israelis. It does not matter how many Jews are imported and granted citizenship by Israel (a theocratic regime), you will never be more populous than the original inhabitants of the land. The Palestinian people (contrary to your wishes) are not going anywhere. In fact they are getting more populous and more determined at getting their land back.

By insisting on building settlements inside Palestinian territory, Israel is already sealing its fate and speeding up its demise. By having more than 300,000 Jewish settlers inside the West Bank, the two-state solution is in danger of becoming infeasible. The alterative of course is to have a single state where the majority (Arabs) rules. South Africa is a very relevant example here.
14:15 March 30, 2010 by honorable
enlightened is an extraordinary source of crazy statements. The population of Palestine was 275 000 in 1800. Now it is 10 millions (7 millions in Israel and 3 millions,maybe more, in Judea, Samaria and Gaza).

Therefore, Palestine was 97,25% emply in 1800 relative to today. This indicates quite clearly that Palestine was quite barren in 1800.

14:16 March 30, 2010 by enlightened
I stand by my comment that stealing your neighbor's land and building a wall inside it is as criminal as suicide bombings. Come to terms with this fact.

Furthermore whoever is saying that building a wall is acceptable because the borders are not well defined I refer you to the United Nations view in the wall:

In 2004, the United Nations passed a number of resolutions and the International Court of Justice issued an advisory opinion calling for the barrier to be removed, and for Arab residents to be compensated for any damage done: "The Court finds that the construction by Israel of a wall in the OCCUPIED Palestinian Territory and its associated regime are contrary to international law."

The UN General Assembly asked the International Court of Justice to evaluate the legal status of Israel's "separation wall." In July 2004, the Court declared the illegality of the barrier. The Security Council has yet to accept and enforce the Court's ruling, however, and the United Nations remains sidelined in the conflict.

The only thing that is enabling Israel continuous disregard for international law is the unconditional support of the United States.
14:22 March 30, 2010 by Uncle
"I'm with M Larson - the rest of you are very bitter. If you don't like it, maybe you should go somewhere else that supporst your beliefs. If Sweden is so terrible maybe you should't be here." - Laila

Hahhaa - Laila, it is in MUSLIM lands a disagreement is not accepted and people leave in millions. In advanced DEMOCRACY people can disagree. In addition, the islamist squads opinion is far from opinion of entire Sweden, so don't try to present it as YOUR opinion is the one that is aligned with the entire country.

Enlightened - these 4 million palestinians grew from 600K palestinians that left Israel when they were too scared that the attack of 7 armies in 1948 will not spare them. Arabs are guilty in this exodus. however you also disregard the 1 million Jews that were thrown from the muslim countries with only their bag on their back between 1948 and 1953. You do not care about them...

In addition, South Africa concentrated black population in specific lands, whereas Jews are on a contrary - trying to live in the areas already populated by palestinians. Whereas Palestinians want to have their land Juden-rein (reminds you of some other nation?). So if Jews are trying to live with the arabs and arabs DO NOT WANT to live with the Jews, arabs want to SEPARATE, arabs want to cleanse their land of Jews - who is the apartheid promoter here? EH?
14:24 March 30, 2010 by honorable
The population located between the security fence and the cease-fire line is mostly jewish. It is quite clear, or at least very probable, that, according to laws of democracy that we like to abide with, these small portions of Judea and Samaria will remain in Israel. And if Palestinians are too inept to be able to make a country with the remaining land (90 to 95 % of the whole of Samaria and Judea), then they should never have a country in the first place.

The Jews sais YES in 1947 when all that was offered to them was 3 Bantoustans linked by infinitesimal contacts. Palestinians shoud stop playing spoiled kids and say NO each time a country is offered to them.
14:27 March 30, 2010 by enlightened

I don't know what you are trying to prove with the 1800 figure.

In 1922 Britain conducted the first census of the region. Results were: Population of 757,182, with 78% Muslim, 11% Jewish and 9.6% Christian.

Muslims and Christians were roughly 675,000. Assume average population growth of 3% which is typical of Middle Eastern countries. 675*(1.03)^90 = 9.6 million.

As for the Jewish citizens of Israel we know that most came form Europe.

I hope that you have the intellectual capacity to follow simple math,
14:52 March 30, 2010 by Nordic Prince
@Uncle #33

You are such a retarded liar. BTW, keep on proving to all readers that you are a goon and never learn! I do really enjoy reading your comments and I know very well that you fear and avoid me, because I always prove how moron you are :)

Anyway, You said "arabs DO NOT WANT to live with the Jews, arabs want to SEPARATE, arabs want to cleanse their land of Jews"

Bahrain has JEWS.

Yemen has JEWS (Yemenite Jews).

Morocco has JEWS.

And quite many of them refuse to go to Israel, simply because NO one accepts injustice.


DO NOT LIE again !
14:52 March 30, 2010 by honorable
Here is the TRUTH: while the decision of the pension fund might be defendable on narrow grounds, it will have a VERY negative effect. It will only embolden Palestinians in their intransigence and their historical tendency to reject compromises.

In other words, a decision that, to the narrow-minded, promotes peace will in fact promote rejection of compromises (peace = compromises) on the part of Palestinians. It will delay the appearande of a Palestinian state on the map.

This is what makes me so sad about so called pacifists: by their decisions, they delay peace and encourages Palestinians to persevere (after all, they have already done so for 63 years; what would be an extra 63 more years?) in their rejection of any peace deal presented to them.
14:55 March 30, 2010 by enlightened
well said Nordic Prince.

I would add that Uncle's idea of the "Jews wanting to live with Arabs" is by stealing their landing and building settlements on it. What a twisted logic.
15:07 March 30, 2010 by M-Larson
@Nordic Prince

I really enjoyed how you taught the putz (Uncle) manners.
15:08 March 30, 2010 by honorable
Reality check for Nordic Prince: the Arabs have been more successful at making their countries judenrein than the Nazis. It looks counterintuitive, but that is the reality. Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, etc. have lost 99,9 % of their Jews. Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco and Yemen have lost 95-97 % of their jews. Under the Nazis, Poland and the most affected countries lost no more than 90 % of their Jews.

The Arabs may not have looked as blood thirsty and barbaric as the Nazis, but the bottom line is: you want maximal loss of Jews from countries? Look at the arab approach first; look at the nazi approach second.
15:23 March 30, 2010 by Nordic Prince
@honorable #40

You have been successfully classified as a buffoon!

A 4 years old kid would say: hmmmm if Arabs really want to destroy the JEWS. Then, it is so easy for Arabs to do that. Arabs can make JEWS sandwishes for the breakfast since ages ago (Especially when the Catholic empire kicked JEWS out and Arabs/Muslims are the ones who protected them when they were apart).


15:29 March 30, 2010 by honorable
George Bernard Shaw used to say: I don't need to tell jokes. I only need to tell the truth: the truth usually make the simple-minded laugh in unbelief or conclude that I am a good joker. The most simple of the simple-minded will even conclude that I am a buffoon.

Check your facts Nordic Prince: arab countries have become more judenrein than any countries that were subjected to the odious treatment of the nazis.
15:43 March 30, 2010 by calebian22
Does anyone on here know why it is called the Fence and not the Wall? 95 percent of it is actually a fence and not concrete. The concrete wall sections are only in urban areas where there is an Israeli city separating it from a Palestinian city. Long live Israel!
15:45 March 30, 2010 by enlightened
Take it easy on 'honorable'. I think after his arguments in support of Israel failed him he is trying a different tactic. He wants to convince us or convince himself that the mistreatment of Jews by Arabs (whether true or not) justifies Israeli occupation of Palestine and subjugating its people.
15:49 March 30, 2010 by M-Larson

Since you've cornered the market with facts, Could you use quotation marks, and specify what exactly George Bernard Shaw used to say?

Otherwise, I'll call you a plagiarizer which is worse than liar!
15:49 March 30, 2010 by Newyork-Växjö
Israelis not only stealing lands but after killing the Palestinians, then they take out their body parts and sell it on the International market .

I am not antisemitic do not label me as antisemitic to justify your killing and selling kidneys. these terms are now disclosed.
15:52 March 30, 2010 by honorable
The exact quote is : "My way of joking is telling the truth; that is the funniest joke in the world" George Bernard Shaw, Nobel prize in litterature.

I'm sorry if I offended some Swedes by mentionning nazis. I had forgotten that Sweden remained neutral towards the Nazis. To go from that ethical choice (neutrality towards the Nazis) to the other one ( emboldent the Palestinians and throw obstacles in Israël's path) is probably not so different, after all.

PS : I know, I am simplifying. I am only saying : think before acting in a stupid or dishonorable way.

#44: I am not trying any tactic. I am just trying to respect facts, though I don't have time to put all relevant contexts around facts (like context for reasons behind Sweden's neutrality towards the Nazis).

Happy Pessach to all. Long life to this holiday, which is, by the way, the first holiday of national liberation on earth. Maybe Palestinians should participate more often in Seders: this would teach them love of freedom while at the same time being respectful and animated by a spirit of compromises.
16:04 March 30, 2010 by M-Larson
@honorable #47

I just copied & pasted the statement you've posted on Google, and the first result was: Sir Walter Besant.

Therefore, I can conclusively say that you are untrusted and whatever you say is nonsense.
16:06 March 30, 2010 by enlightened

You questioned Sweden's official neutrality towards the Nazis. One should seek answers by doing some research. Here is a clue. During WWII Stalin invaded Finland while Hitler invaded Norway. I would say it is not so easy to pick sides between Hitler and Stalin... both are equally evil.
16:14 March 30, 2010 by honorable
Larson: thank you for exposing that you are a total liar on top of having little culture. I defy anyone to put my quote in Google and find Walter Besant. Larson: just because your opinions differ from mine does not mean that you have to support my opinions indirectly by making a village idiot of yourself.

16:16 March 30, 2010 by M-Larson
@honorable #50

You are funny goon :)

16:37 March 30, 2010 by honorable
My quotation from Shaw can be found in Act 2 of his John Bull's Other Island (1904). Larson should attend more frequently the annual Shaw festival at Niagara-on-the Lake instead of preparing surstromming !

But if he has the exact source of his Walter Besant quote, let him give it. Facts remain facts.
17:08 March 30, 2010 by Iraniboy
This is the issue of moral values. Most firms fail when it comes to this. Well done to this one :)

Most governments around the world have low morale since they never care about human right violation in other countries. They may criticize out load for example about violation of human right in Sudan, China, Iran ,...but they only do this for political PR and they do nothing in practice. But when it comes to allies, they try to respect some norms and morale for sustainable cooperation. Israel is an exception that it even doesn't respect the right of its allies like US/UK let alone others!!
19:13 March 30, 2010 by Mike79
To enlightened

am going to ask you somthing and i hope you will answer me .and comment about what you call it "terrorist" Palestinians.if some one attack sweden if you are from sweden !!!!! will you call your selfe swedish terrorist : if you will defend the attack or you will go to Thailand !!!!!!!!! and have have there .....wake up yo. go and read first befor you open your big mouth...and talk about palestine ......look at the maps here in sweden the one from 1960 till 1975 ......Isreal dose not accziest.
20:18 March 30, 2010 by CanadianInSweden
I am gonna make this short and simple..i have lived in Israel for 6 months working in a kibbutz and travelling around,been to West Bank for 1 day trip,not Gaza.. yet. For anyone who is against Israels actions on..well almost anything...you need to shut up and go there and see it for yourself before commenting.you will have a much different view point then jsut what you read in the news.

if anyone wants me to elaborate in length i will..just ask
20:22 March 30, 2010 by DavidtheNorseman
Elbit just got a huge contract. This is a bad business decision.

As for the rest, God had given all of Israel to the Jews and has said He will kick the teeth in of any group trying to oust them.

The Arabs and their supporters are doomed.

PS - I'm Christian and a descendant of Odin so don't be claiming I'm Jewish all you God-hating Islamists.
20:24 March 30, 2010 by Alma
I have utmost respect for Swedes.
20:36 March 30, 2010 by Nordic Prince
@CanadianInSweden #55

"you will have a much different view point then jsut what you read in the news."

If I go there, then, definitely I will have different view point. Because I will see how Palestinians kill 13 persons AND HOW Israeli criminals will kill 1417 human beings (Mostly kids and women - Gaza December 2008).

I think you are the one who should shut the hell up idiot!

@Iraniboy #53

"This is the issue of moral values"... It depends how people define "moral values".... Sadly, quite many heartless morons consider killing kids by Israeli criminals is something great and good morals.
21:20 March 30, 2010 by mehrdad1111
its shocking to see so many antisemits in this topic throwing around their propaganda while ignoring the facts. facts? which facts?

-that the fence reduced the islamic suicid bombing nearly to zero.

-that the terror against jewich civilians was there long BEFORE any occupation...between 1948-1967 by islamic fedajin. therefore, not a so called occupation is the problem...the islam is the problem.

-that the so called green line is NOT a border. even in resolution 242 the green line is not named as a kind of border between two states.

but useless to come against so much haterad with facts. the pallywood fraction does not care about facts.
21:39 March 30, 2010 by CanadianInSweden
wow your ignorance is appalling . its difficult to debate with someone that cant look past the numbers and understand the how and why things happen..yes more then 1000 Palestinians died,its sad when even 1 dies.. every organization has different numbers though,you choose the group with the highest i believe, to help prove your point,also your numbers and statement are just simply wrong... but thats not my issue. Because of your ignorance i feel like i need to educate you on how things actually work. Why the casualty rate was 13 compared to over 1000. In 2008 over 3000 rockets were fired into Israel indiscriminately to kill civilians. luckily they only managed to kill and injure a hand-full of Israeli's but thats not important, Israel is prepared for them, sirens go off and you have roughly 1 minute to get to a bomb shelter,they have them every few 100m ,almost everyone has one in there house also. i spent many hours in 1,not fun. Israeli's are in general in not much danger of them if you are prepared for it.they do a lot of damage... after about 2000 have fallen over 2008 , Israel finally decides to stop it. over 90% of the deaths came from this method...

1.radar on a un-manned drone picks up launch of a kassam rocket and works out exact co-ordinates of the launch site.

2.if the drone is armed it fires 1 missile at that exact co-ordinate instantly,if its not armed it transmits to a fighter jet or artillery piece and they do it,within seconds.

they destroyed 10,000s of rockets on the ground doing this before they could be launched.

What you don't seem to understand is that the Palestinians were launching them from the roof's of schools(EVEN A UNITED NATIONS SCHOOL!) ,in the middle of populated neighborhoods. because they knew those areas would not be targeted and if they were it got them good PR and then all you pathetic people(Nordic Prince mostly) feel bad for them.

the only reason Israel's casualties are not higher is because the Palestinians do not have the technology and Israel is well prepared. it is 100% Hamas's fault for the deaths in Gaza,no less then 100%.

Its like a man shooting a bear with a pellet gun then getting angry at the bear when it rips him to pieces.
21:39 March 30, 2010 by honorable
Thanks, nordic prince for admitting that you have never been to Israel despite your antiIsrael bashing based on ignorance. I have been to Israel, including passing through Nablus and Jenine. And I have met Ada Yonath, 2009 Chemistry Nobel prize winner who was born in Jerusalem and educated at Hebrew University. I know a thing or two about what I am writing about. Please, do the same and the world will a better, safer and more enjoyable place to live in.

Recall two things about war casualties:

1) during the second intifada, MORE jewish women (2 to 3 times more, I think) were killed than palestinian women. Why? Israel was extra careful not to cause loss of human life.

2) During Cast Lead operation in 2008-2009, there was something like 0,3 palestinian casualty per F 16 air sortie. This tells you how careful the israeli pilots were about saving human life. If these airplanes had been piloted by Palestinians from Hamas, there would have been at least 50 dead per air sortie.

Think about these facts before launching into lunatic arithmetic.

Israel has the most humane army, or one of the most humane army, on this planet. No comparison with the American, French, British or Russian armies.
22:05 March 30, 2010 by CanadianInSweden
thank you honorable,i couldn't have said it better myself..i have no tolerance for ignorant,uneducated people!
22:05 March 30, 2010 by Nordic Prince
@CanadianInSweden #60 @honorable #61 (Sam's sheeps!)

I didn't bother to read any of the nonsense+lies that you posted morons!

A fool of you states: "Its like a man shooting a bear with a pellet gun then getting angry at the bear when it rips him to pieces."

I love how to described Israelis as animal -> This is the only FACT I see. In fact, They are worse than animals.
22:17 March 30, 2010 by M-Larson
@Nordic Prince

hahahahaha - leave those idiots alone!

Once again, "Sweden's largest pension fund has announced the exclusion of Israeli arms maker Elbit Systems from its portfolio of investments for ethical ethical ethical ethical ethical ethical ethical ethical ethical reasons." \

This is GREAT :)

@Uncle @CanadianInSweden @honorable @DavidtheNorseman

You retarded trolls keep on crying. I love to see you annoyed. Always losers!
22:18 March 30, 2010 by jaradat_omar

Previously, you agreed with Nordic Prince who posted many hatred words as following:

1- Support Israel emotionally and with money to kill their kids, women and elderly people. We will support Israelis with weapons, fighters and rockets to kill all Muslims and use the white phosphorus like they used in Gaza. We will ask our doctors tp steal the Muslim's organs.

2- US + EU will always send troops to destroy their countries such as (Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen,....).

3- We will always disrespect their culture, traditions, religions and themselves.

And more....

And, check this out! If a muslim open his mouth complaining or burning a flag then we will arrest him in Guantanamo and insult him and all his nation and call them terrorists

AND you replied him ...

Well Done! Though, you've forgotten to put the signature. Anyway, I'll do that for you.

" Do you know why??? Because these are our principles, values and manners!

Best regards,


AND your comment here was:

Well Done !

That's why I am very proud to be swede.

Next steps should be as follows:

1- Stand by UN Human Rights Council and vote in support of the Goldstone Report which it proves that Israel committed war crimes in Gaza.

2- Our troops in Afghanistan should return home, and we send aids + humanitarians to countries that suffer from natural disasters such as Haiti, Chili...

Man what the hell are you talking about ??

I think you have a schizophrenia hahahaha.

You want to burn the people there and stand with them in the same time isn't this kind of hypocrisy, dissimulation or double-dealing ??!!

I discovered that you just like to participate in each blog regardless of the idea you want to post, believe me I don't want to attack you contrary I offered you my friendship but you were so solid and self confidant and impudently posted "I'm not your brother" hahahahaha

Do you think that somebody will kneel to your majesty and ask for your brotherhood, what I'm trying to say is human being nature can't agree with the injustice cases except those who sanctify the personal interest over anything, and again if I don't agree your opinion this will never mean that I wish to burn in hell or bomb you and anybody believe in such away regardless of his tendency easily must be considered as a ridiculous, unbalanced and a big enemy for all human not only west or east.

Thank you man or not a brother!!!
22:20 March 30, 2010 by CanadianInSweden
i find it hilarious thats all you got from that statement,shows how utterly stupid you are. lets try another one then..

if i continuously poking you with my finger and you say stop it! ..if you do it one more time im going to punch you.and i do and you do.

then by your logic you used extreme force and are in the wrong?

i find it funny that i need to dumb it down this much for him because he obviously doesnt understand ¨big boy talk¨ ie facts
22:24 March 30, 2010 by M-Larson

Your English is so good which makes you really understand the idea!

Guys, This is freakin hilarious I swear to you!

Please go to (http://www.thelocal.se/25752/20100326/) and you will see how @jaradat_omar understands words :)

I will pay you 100000000000000000000 SEK if you didn't laugh your heart out !!!!!
22:24 March 30, 2010 by Mike79
to nordic

thanks so so so much nordic prince for your comment....there are alot of idiot! here have no idea about what is going on there ,,,,,,,and they will never have it

just !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!idiot!
22:46 March 30, 2010 by CanadianInSweden
obviously you are just not capable of having an intelligent conversation,going out on a limb here ,you are muslim,brainwashed with hate for jews you cant listen to reason
22:57 March 30, 2010 by Nordic Prince

First of all, I really pity you.

Second of all, I'll be kind and explain to you:

After going to (http://www.thelocal.se/25752/20100326/)

1) M-Larson posted a comment #14 which states "Just leave them alone for Christ's sake!" And he meant: leave muslims alone and stop poking your nose into their business and insult their culture, religion, prophet....etc -> I wonder why the Webmaster removes the comment!

2) Then, I (Nordic Prince) came by and posted a comment #27 to say to the whole world how innocent people suffer and get killed, and how EU+US policy in supporting Israel. I clearly stated "check this out! If a muslim open his mouth complaining or burning a flag then we will arrest him in Guantanamo and insult him and all his nation and call them terrorists" ...... How come you didn't get what I mean :( .....

Anyways, my comment was kinda sarcasm to show readers how EU+US have double standards.

3) That's why M-Larson posted a comment #28 and said "Well Done!" because he understands what I meant. Also, he puts the signature of that agenda.

4) Now, Did you understand that?
23:40 March 30, 2010 by jaradat_omar
@Nordic Prince @M-Larson

Listen it was not my mistake some of the text was removed and was not arranged well, leave my English alone and stop making yourself as a Shakespeare and I didn't laugh from my heart so I worth your 100000000000000000000 SEK hehehehe

Anyway, I apologize and this is not a weakness.
00:11 March 31, 2010 by enlightened

What an idoit! Just because you lived in Israel for 6 months does not make you the world authority on the conflict. It is clear that you have a biased view. Since you did not bother to read all previous posts I will dumb down the issue to your level of intellect. If you inavde and take over my home I will do whatever it takes to kick you out. You are an occupier.

*a fellow Canadian*
02:18 March 31, 2010 by jaradat_omar
@honorable @CanadianInSweden

"Israel has the most humane army, or one of the most humane army, on this planet. No comparison with the American, French, British or Russian armies."

This is a big balderdash I have ever heard.

Jews occupied Palestine front of all the world then declared their state by the largest forces support worldwide to make ISRAEL and the cost was many massacres.

Do you want me to mention some??

Just google the massacre name you want from the following link:


Read it carefully to see how well they killed unarmed civilians in a cold blood to steal their lands, lives, homes, culture, traditions and even the meals and sweets.

Two women only??

Do you think that all who killed in Gaza deserve to die just because of some gangsters called HAMAS who are originally Israeli agents used in a double dealing way the first face is convincing Palestinians that they wanna free the land and the second one is giving Israel the reason and make it pretexting with Tom 'n Jerry rockets launched by those gangsters and make no sense on the ground, They only give Israel the reason to kill the innocents.

They even receive their salaries from Israel and Iran it is old game played twice once in Lebanon by people called Hezbollah and second time in Gaza by HAMAS.

Even USA played the same game with Osama bin Laden

And the weird thing is all these agents are Muslims to represent how much this religion is fanatic and intricate!!

They succeeded convincing the world that Islam associated in terrorism and make the real terrorists run away.

Go to youtube and seek for :

Norman Finkelstein to Jewish journalist in Denmark: You are spouting Israeli propaganda
04:29 March 31, 2010 by svenskdod
Erm, when did capitalism get involved in human rights issues?

Ethics has nothing to do with investments. I haven't looked into the pension thing (bit young for that) but as I understand it, can't you chose yourself where your coin goes? If that is the case, then it is your decision and they cant stop you buying into a "fence" company can they?
07:12 March 31, 2010 by M-Larson
@CanadianInSweden #60

"yes more then 1000 Palestinians died,its sad when even 1 dies.. every organization has different numbers though,you choose the group with the highest i believe"

1- Frankly, I don't believe you by saying "it is sad". Elements/Animals like you do not have heart or human-feelings.

2- If you are honest or intelligent as you claimed, you would have noted that those numbers are taken from Wikipedia (Huh???? NOT even a Palestinian organization!!!!) Just go to Wikipedia, then, type "Gaza War" and you will see the table in the right side.

All I can say is that you are sick and total imbecile!.

@honorable #61

"Israel has the most humane army, or one of the most humane army, on this planet."

You don't deserve 1 second of anybody's time, but I just want all readers to laugh how idiot! you are...

Anyway, The South African JEW (Head of the UN Fact Finding Mission Justice Richard Goldstone) stated clearly and literally in his report that Israelis "punish, humiliate and terrorize civilians" ........ "most humane army" Huh??? Indeed, they are.....

BTW, you are a heartless animal how come you dare to define some terms as normal human beings do..... hahahahaha, therefore, you should never ever classify Israeli criminals or any other army as the most humane army, simply because you are not qualified to be as half human being.
13:02 March 31, 2010 by CanadianInSweden

Obviously we have a different definition of ¨my home¨. since we are arguing about Gaza i will stay on that topic. before December 2008 for years not a single Israeli soldier was inside the boundary,the boarder was open for travel and aid. only when the war started they closed the boarder. and yes i read every post here, unfortunately almost all of the opinions are based on simply wrong information and pure islamic hate for jews.

enlightened..its not defending your home if your neighbor stays on his side of the fence and you throw rocks at his house,eventually hes going to throw back!

and yes you are damned right i am biased now, after the 3rd or 4th time being woken up in the middle of the night by sirens and having to run to a bomb shelter will do that to a person.

the Israeli's have done nothing but give give give to the Palestinians, food,gas, electricity, jobs.everything. They 100% left their land and what do they get in return,rockets?

Hamas is the problem,100%..they do not want a peace deal,THEY WANT IT ALL, Iran is the one paying them and providing the weapons and they do what Iran says. Iran has promised Hamas all of Israel.look at West Bank,they are in general decent people,controlled by reasonable people, Fat ah. i have been to Ramallah,and it is not that bad,iv been to worse city's...IN EUROPE.and Israeli army still has a presence there.what does that tell you?2 completely different mentalities , fat ah want peace , Hamas does not

watch this and still argue that these people can be negotiated with..or deserve anything from Israel or the west. They hate jews more then they love there own children. Hamas are brainwashing them with hate.and its wrong. Israel has every right to defend itself from these people.

14:21 March 31, 2010 by enlightened
We are arguing about the Palestinian Territory i.e. both Gaza and the West Bank. Let me show you the fallacy of your arguments. Palestinians are already divided between Hamas-controlled Gaza and Fatah-controlled West Bank. This unfortunate situation in some sense has been the perfect opportunity for Israel to show that they are genuinely interested in peace. Fatah had already accepted Israel's right to exist and seized military operations against Israel since the Oslo accord in 1993. Instead of capitalizing on this desire to peace Israel has been continuously building settlements on occupied land in the West Bank. These settlements are illegal according to international law (I will keep repeating this again and again). You cannot negotiate peace on one hand and continue the policy of changing the demography of disputed land at the same time. Israel has essentially empowered Hamas by rewarding the Palestinian desire to make peace by stealing more land. I quote your prime minister Yitzhak Shamir here: ""I would have carried out autonomy talks for ten years, and meanwhile we would have reached half a million people in Judea and Samaria.". Does this sound like state who is interested in peace? If your idea of peace is having Palestinians accept any offer put on the table by the more powerful Israelis, then no Thank you.

As for Israel pulling out of Gaza, they did not do it out of their generosity. They figured the obvious. Gaza is the one of the most densely populated areas on earth (1.5 millions in 360 km2). It is very costly for Israel to keep occupying this strip for the sake of 10000 Israeli settlers, so they pulled out.
15:06 March 31, 2010 by Nordic Prince
@enlightened #72

"What an idoit! Just because you lived in Israel for 6 months does not make you the world authority on the conflict."

Well done enlightened !

But wait... hmmmm maybe the idiot!(@CanadianInSweden) holds a PhD in the International law. But again, even if he has one, then, for sure this degree is from Israel and signed by Tzipi Livni :)

@CanadianInSweden #76

I don't know why but I feel that Canadians kicked you out of Canada because you are ill mannered and big shame...

ohhhh I just found it.... you said "Obviously we have a different definition of ¨my home¨." :) indeed, because your definition of home is "Israel".

BTW, I am sure your Masters in Israel are looking for a jester for thier upcoming nuptials. Make sure you post pictures, so we can laugh at you. Lucky you, you can get a job at anytime in "Guantanamo Bay detention camp" As the Chief of Torturing Kids Department.
16:32 March 31, 2010 by CanadianInSweden
i in no way said i agree with everything the government of Israel does.i was simply commenting on the Gaza war.West Bank is a completely different conversation.They are completely separate. the people of both territories have very different views and actions,you cannot generalize them both.


it does not matter why Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005,they did,they were not occupying at all. so how do you justify the 10000+ rockets over 3 years?especially rockets aimed to kill civilians. Israeli government does not intentionally go out to kill civilians. Hamas are animals,they have no sense of welfare for there own citizens,only hell bent on killing as many jews as possible,Fatah does care about its people,that is why the West Bank has a much higher quality of life.yes Israel is making some bad decisions as far as settlements but that is the west bank.not Gaza

Hamas and Fatah are enemy's,they have very different goals and values. Hamas's only goal is to kill Jews,as many as they can.Fatah wants peace.

Yes Israel needs to stop the settlements in the west bank. any peace negotiations have to be separate between Hamas and Fatah,they do not go together.

@Nordic prince,go fck yourself with your hate filled Qur'an :)

at least enlightened is arguing with information(well mostly wrong and cherry picked) hes not just simply attacking me and calling it an argument.
16:52 March 31, 2010 by Nordic Prince
@CanadianInSweden #79

"attacking me"

hahahahaha , I will use some information now!

FYI, I am not attacking you and I'll never do because I am a well-known member in People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA). So, don't worry I'll not hurt or attack creatures like you :)

BTW, you worked up just because of my words.... I wonder what will you do if you lose 1417 person from your city (That includes: family members, friends, neighbours...etc)

I guess everyone knows that you have been taught manners properly !
17:09 March 31, 2010 by CanadianInSweden
the people voted for Hamas,they knew what kind of hate they were getting into bed with and Israel is very powerful military,they know attacking them is not a good idea.but of course there Qu'ran tell them to,so its there own problem then if they want to blindly follow a book, they know will get them attacked,they even believe its a good thing to be killed by a Jew,72 ¨virgins here i come!¨. Israels driving force in attacks or retaliation are purely public safety ,Hamas's is purely religion .if the people want to back that its there own fault for what happens. yes its sad that people can be that stupid.

its the same way any country is entirely to blame for the actions of there elected governments..

since we are in Sweden i'll use an example from here...if for some stupid reason the Swedish democrats ever get a majority government then they do what they have always said they would do..round up all the foreigners and throw them out (more or less). the world would look so badly at Sweden and yes every Swedish person is responsible for that happening ,you would have to be a complete idiot to not expect it
17:16 March 31, 2010 by M-Larson
@CanadianInSweden #74

"Obviously we have a different definition of ¨my home¨."

I know why you have a different definition of ¨my home¨....

Because you're adopted!:)
21:48 March 31, 2010 by Rebel
Why is everything Israel does considered evil by Swedes?
22:18 March 31, 2010 by Iraniboy

Next time you travel to to Israel make sure to protect your Canadian passport with cautious! ;) The difference between Israeli government and other governments( like US, UK, Russia, Iran,...) is that these governments may screw their enemies by any inhuman way but Israel also screw friends!! ;)

As for your comment about IDF, there are too many examples that Israeli soldiers intention to kill women and kids in Palestine is due to their racist hatred against Arabs. Israel is the only remaining racist killer government remaining from 20th century.
23:30 March 31, 2010 by jaradat_omar
@CanadianInSweden #80

Hey you homeless, Do you think that Israelis are not homeless??

They occupied Palestine because it was a choice from two choices in addition to Uganda and they were offered by the British government so they took Palestine not because it's the Promised Land hahahah and even who's this God who makes different between his creatures?!!! ...hahahahaha

Then the Arab treacherous leaders conspired to not protect Palestine and decided to grant it to Jews to keep their thrones and that why Arabs has no dignity, and then the Jewish massacres have begun from 1948 till this moment to replace the origin people with the Jews who began moving to the Promised Land from all over the world and in order to convince themselves that they had a civilization before!!

They mad a big lie in the history and believed it therefor they started digging under every church and mosque to find an evidence like Solomon's ring or Star of David printed on a stone or a dead cat body all of this search just to legalize their occupation but they found nothing except a big sharp finger.

Promised Land project is a masonic Zionist plan to control the world.

Listen if you tried to rub your head and search more for the facts you will discover that the Promised Land is not ONLY Palestine but it includes Palestine , Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, half of Iraq, and the north of KSA. just google it and see the full map of the homeless intended plan.


Because fake the truth and steal a whole nation can not be ever considered as a good thing, Israel stole Palestine and claims that it is the Promised Land and the lord ordered them to slave any one not Jew and their religion was built on superstitions by Kabballah magicians.
00:19 April 1, 2010 by M-Larson
@Rebel #81

"Why is everything Israel does considered evil by Swedes? "

Simply, because they are jews. Nothing ever is worse than that ;)

@DavidtheNorseman #55

Asaide from the fact that you are goon, You sounded as someone believes in God.... Why don't you convert to Judaism? Or your God told you that it doesn't matter a Jew or Christian will be in heaven as long as you kill 1417 muslims especially kids and women ?
01:28 April 1, 2010 by sebseb
"Why is everything Israel does considered evil by Swedes? "

Israel is the evil, this is why.

I am so pround of Sweden!
08:48 April 1, 2010 by enlightened
My last take on the issue.

Israel has a long history of disregard to international law and United Nations resolutions, human right abuses and use of overwhelming force against civilians (including banned weapons like white phosphorus shells and uranium bombs). Israel got away with it by playing the anti-Semitism and holocaust cards (committed by Europeans not Arabs) against any sort of criticism. Israel's position is essentially "support our crimes or otherwise you will be labeled as an anti-Semite or a self-hating Jew (if the critic of Israel happens to be Jewish)".

Supporters of Israel use the security/terrorism claim to justify Israel's brutal crimes against Palestinians. But one important fact clearly shows the fallacy of this argument: Israel continuous building of illegal settlements in the West Bank to change the land's demographics and hinder the peace process. I quote their prime mister Yitzhak Shamir here: "I would have carried out autonomy talks for ten years, and meanwhile we would have reached half a million people in Judea and Samaria". Israel has essentially pulled out of Gaza while increasing their settlement activities in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. In a way they are sending message to the Palestinians that violence resistance (Hamas/Gaza) is rewarded while nonviolence (Fatah/West Bank) means to ending the conflict are punished.

Israel is a powerful nation. They have one of the strongest and well equipped armies in the world, nuclear weapons, and the unconditional support of the United States. It is my opinion that the more powerful party has the greater responsibility at ending the conflict. They are in a sense responsible for the well being and status of Palestinians under their occupation. They have a moral responsibility but they failed miserably.

The bottom line is this article was about a Swedish pension find that refused to invest in the Israel war industry. I applaud them for doing the right thing. Just recently I came across more good news: The student body in Berkeley has passed a bill to divest the school's asset form companies that support Israeli occupation.

11:13 April 1, 2010 by honorable
Summary of previous 85 commentaries: The uneducated, the uncultured or the unintelligent have problems with Israel. The others generally appreciate Israel or love Israel without losing sight of the serious dilemnas it faces. They are able to see Israel in context and understand that by continuellay criticizing Israel this emblodens the Palestinians and encourages them to take extremist or rigid positions which delay peace.

The attitude of Sweden is often such an attitude.

Israel does not have to pay attention to the international community when it makes unlearned statements or decontextrualised statements. Just as, I would have hoped, it would not have obeyed the international community when it thought that the earth is flat, that continents don't move or that the sun turns around the earth. Nothing has been more wrong and narrowminded, over the course of the history, than the opinion of the internatioinal community..

And even if the international community would unanimously think that surstromming ought to be banned, I woud say to Swedes: don't listen. You know better on this topic than this "international community".
11:24 April 1, 2010 by enlightened

"The uneducated, the uncultured or the unintelligent have problems with Israel"

How is it then that you are supportive of Israel? Are you an exception to the rule? What an idiot.
11:30 April 1, 2010 by honorable
enlighthened lacks judgement and proves my point: I am a professor at a world famous university. My students all have B.Sc., M.Sc. or M.D. degrees.
12:22 April 1, 2010 by Nordic Prince
@honorable #89

"I am a professor at a world famous university"

Precisely as I've expected(Comment #76)

The degree is from Israel and signed by Tzipi Livni

"My students all have B.Sc., M.Sc. or M.D. degrees."

Indeed, your students are: Ehud Barak, Shaul mofaz, Meir Dagan.... and other criminals.

Apart from teaching brutalization, terrorizing civilians, killing, state of art in state of the art of Torturing, mastering the laying. *What else do you teach?

*Also, apart from the poor and innocent palestinians, Who else do you and your students practice on? Huh? Iraqis? Lebanese? Syrians? (Soon Iranians) ???
12:56 April 1, 2010 by enlightened
@honorable #89

"I am a professor at a world famous university"

wow… a professor possessing the intellect of a 15-year old kid (no offense to kids here).

When presented with facts and figures you ignored them and came up with the weirdest argument I yet to hear. You essentially said that since the world is against Israel, Israel has to be right because the world once believed that the earth is flat. What kind of crap are you smoking professor?

I guess in your weird universe an "educated, cultured and intelligent" world would base international law on the Torah/bible/Quran. Is this why you don't approve of the UN's view on illegal settlements and the Israeli apartheid wall?

There exists a slim possibly that you are not an idiot but a religious fanatic. Maybe you really do believe in the promised land.
13:42 April 1, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
Well, well, well. I wonder why this Swedish pension fund DID decide to bar Israeli arms firm, ?

Maybe the Israeli supporters here are on to something. Maybe they ARE all "idiots" on the styrelse who just want to harm Sweden and have some kind of death wish.

OR... maybe not.

Hey, maybe 'dishonourable' and 'murdered1111' just have very little on grip on reality and are trolls or moles whose job it is to try and alter the public perception of Israeli illegal and brutal actions.

By the way, A few myths being peddled which need to be busted.

"...arabs DID NOT start this conflict in 1948."

That would be due to the Balfour declaration giving land to the Zionists which was already occupied and which broke a pledge agreed by Sir Mark Sykes to create a Arab independent state to the Arabs for their assistance in the 1st world War.

And "arabs HAVE NOT tried everything to prevent a peace by rejecting israeli offers in 1967, 200 and 2008."

As we are seeing today with the settlement issue in East Jerusalem and Netanyahu's staemnets, it is in fact the Israelis who have never been interested in peace, but who have consistently stolen Arab land (just look at the maps from 1947 till today), have never declared the borders, have never offered any concessions on right of return (which is a legal requirement), discriminate against arabs, build illegal wars, shoot and kill peace activists, implement illegal embargoes, collectively punish civilian populations, etc., etc., etc.
13:54 April 1, 2010 by honorable
In Ramallah, during Obama's visit to Israël, a square was named in « honour » of one of the worst palestinian terrorist ever : in 1978, she killed 35 innocent civilians, among whom 13 children and one American. Reaction in Sweden : nothing or not much. They prefer reacting against a fence that protects agains such terrorists.

No matter what Israël does (unless Israel surrenders to islamists), it complains. If Israël kills a terrorist using a drone, and there is collateral damage, the « international community »complains. If Israël kills a terrorist without any significant collateral damage (see the recent case in Dubai, assuming it comes from Israël), that community will still complain ! It then complains that forged passports were used in order to avoid any civilian casualty. It alwasys complain when it comes to Israël.

During this time, the USA can use drones all over the place and kill terrorists with significantly more collateral damage than Israël does during its actions.
14:45 April 1, 2010 by Nordic Prince
@enlightened and @All other good people

No matter how hard you try, you will never ever reach a point with blind idiots!

Such elements should NOT be respected or even considered for arguement.
15:05 April 1, 2010 by honorable
If a terrorist having murdered countless babies and pregnant women is smothered with a pillow, in order to avoid all possible forms of collateral damage, the international community complains of « impropre use of a pillow ». It complains, that is, if the murderous terrorist has been killed by an israeli agent. If he has been killed by a Russian, American, French, British ou Chinese agent, that's OK.

And if he is smothered in his hotel room, the international community will accuse Israel of 2 "crimes": illegal use of a pillow, and illegaly entering in a room!

The wise points towards the moon with his finger. The international community looks at the finger and wants to know the last time the finger was washed, to see if some rule was broken!

Remember 1975: while a genocide was going on in Cambodia, what was the international community interested in? It was interested in passing a United Nation resolutions equating Zionism with Racism! Great job! That stupid resolution was cancelled in 1991. Every one on the planet voted then on the side of Israel, except 3 communist countries and, of course, the muslim countries.
23:32 April 1, 2010 by ajs42548
Why did the Arab countries and the Palestinians reject UN resolution 181 in 1948 that would have established a Palestinian homeland? Israel accepted it. Why did the Palestinians reject all other offers that would have given it 97% of what they wanted. The Israeli offer was unprecedented in world history. If it's all about "occupation" then why was the PLO formed in 1964, 3 years before the 6 day war? Why were Israeli schools and school buses attacked regularly between 1948 and 1967? There never was a country of Palestine in the history of the world. For those who say there was, what were the borders? Who were the presidents or prime ministers? What was the currency? What was the capital? When was it created?

Why did Hamas start sending rockets into Israel just hours after Israel left Gaza? Shouldn't the Palestinians have made a peace overture of their own?

Why do the Palestinians use human shields? Why don't the Israel bashers here condemn that?

As far as the UN is concerned, any organization that has country like the Sudan, a country that still has legalized slavery, on the human rights council shows the it (the UN) is useless and has no credibility.

I realize that I will be called names, but I know that none of my questions will be answered because that would expose the Israel haters as just that, haters. These people wouldn't last an hour living under sharia law. All of these road blocks and closures wouldn't happen if the Palestinians would just stop killing Israelis. One last question, what have the Palestinians ever done to promote peace?
01:04 April 2, 2010 by jaradat_omar
The United States described the Palestinian Intefadhah as a terrorism in nature!!

The world has not agreed so far to determine or define the meaning of terrorism.

Are terrorist acts to achieve national goals and national terrorism is a legitimate sense of itself to the World Trade Center in New York?

Experts believe that, from the historical point of view, terrorism is the other side of diplomacy, where diplomacy fails and terror took the reins.

Let us take two examples; in 1967, Israeli continued its occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, Israel has deliberately to the confiscation of Palestinian property and the settlement and annexation, the Palestinians have been subjected to all forms of economic slavery, genocide as a substitute.

It seems that the 'Haronat' Israel derive sadistic pleasure from the treatment of Palestinians in a little way in which Nazi Germany treated the Jewish people.

Thus, Palestinians are forced to atone for the sins of others, even though the Palestinians are not guilty of any crime against the Jewish people, but if the struggle for freedom and independence is a crime!

State terrorism practiced by Israel on a large scale and the latest sophisticated weapons - weapons which are secured by generously to the United States - against the Palestinians who do not have the stones, most of them only as a weapon 'fatal' defend themselves.

Thus the friend became the enemy, despite the fact that Britain was fighting a life and death struggle of the oppressed against the killer of the Jews, namely, Nazi Germany.

Are the Palestinians guilty only of their desire to liberate their country and establish their Palestinian identity. As the diplomatic and peace negotiations have failed to achieve these objectives there is no longer an alternative option but to fight in front of those occupied by all means available to them.

Is that terrorism? If it is, So I am so proud of the Palestinians terrorism!!!
01:33 April 2, 2010 by honorable
Could anyone send a dictionary to jaradat_omar? He needs one so that he may understand the meaning of words such as "slavery", "genocide", "crime", "terrorism", "country".

Jaradat: Palestinians never had a country. They cannot therefore liberate it. Etc. etc. Palestine is there to be shared; not liberated.
01:57 April 2, 2010 by M-Larson
@dishonourable #98

"Could anyone send a dictionary to jaradat_omar?"

You goof! Since you are a Prof, I think it is more important if you send us some of the papers that you have published in the military bases about the latest techniques in burning kids by white phosphorus OR about how to kill 1417 human beings in 10 days and you complain to the whole world that you are under attack OR how to fake passports OR how to lie OR ....... etc

ohhh so many bad things you could teach..... I wonder what else of the horrible things Israel didn't do .....
04:20 April 2, 2010 by jaradat_omar

Man don't waste your time with SOMETHING dishonorable!!

@dishonorable #98

Palestinians always have a country and they will never leave it although Israel stole it in an impure way.

Jews are always oppressed because they can't live peacefully they must make a mess and watch it affably they force others to not deal, respect and look at them, just have a look on the history, literature, cultures you will notice that every bad person must be necessarily Jew believe me it is not a haphazard ask Shakespeare about this hahahahaha or go and check about the worldwide promoters of prostitution, gamble, drugs...etc all of them are Jews but let me say it they are rich in real hahaha.

So, If you wanna talk about the facts, you are welcome but forget about the religions because you as a Jew or Jew supporter have a faked Torah so lets talk logically instead, Muslims, Christians and Jews always lived in Jerusalem peacefully and before any war I mean before Israel declaration there was a peace and all of them could do their various religiosity rituals without any constraints and even the Money were printed in three languages (English, Arabic and Hebrew) but this situation is not suitable for the Jews because as what I told you they like to make a mess!! and as what I posted before Britain offered the Jews an independent state to serve the British interest and to Weakens the Arab land after ending the Ottoman control on the area so Israel was built and declared based on the Zionism and that's why I asked you to not talk about religion because as you know Zionism and Zionist have no religion.

Jews are always slavers for the others like Pharaohs, Roman,...etc an they who have no Home.
09:26 April 2, 2010 by enlightened
@ajs42548 #96

Arab refused the partition for understandable reasons. Palestine was 90% Muslim/Christian and only 10% Jewish according to the 1922 British census. The only reason Israel was able to establish a home land is support of the imperial powers who wanted to compensate the Jewish people for the holocaust. I totally support the idea of payback but not at the expense of the indigenous people of the land. Jews should have been awarded land in Germany, the country responsible for the holocaust.

As for your issue with Hamas, I do not condone violence. But irrespective of Hamas's actions, Israel has repeatedly shown that they are not interested in peace through the continued building of illegal settlements in the West Bank (Hamas has no presence there by the way). Therefore Hamas and Israel are both not interested in peace and they are both terrorist entities. One is a fundamentalist Muslim militia and the other is theocratic Jewish state practicing systematic terror against the Palestinians.


I will not engage in debate with you since you lack the logic to debate based on facts. I will just say that you are probably on this forum for a mission. To deliberately distort facts and influence public opinion. This is typical of Israel. They are much smarter than Arabs in this aspect. They figured out long ago the importance of PR in sustaining their criminal activities. This of course worked nicely for them for a long while. However you cannot fool all the people all time... I am sure that you are familiar with this saying.
10:13 April 2, 2010 by honorable
The text of jaradat_omar is pure raw primitive antisemitism. Shame on the Local for giving space to such fact distorters and to such incitement towards hatred.

enlightened: when partition was done in 1947, care was taken to allow to jews ONLY (and fairly) a piece of land in which they were a majority.

A number of antisemites and intellectual losers have obviously adopted this topic. You are easy to recognize because you distort the name of people you write to. Consult a psychologist to tell you what is the mental age associated with such behavior. I would tell you but, obviously, you would not believe me.
13:23 April 2, 2010 by enlightened

"A number of antisemites and intellectual losers have obviously adopted this topic."

You have proved my point of being on a mission to distort facts. The antisemitism claim has been systematically used by Israel to brush of criticism against their crimes.

I recommend the following documentary on the Israeli campaign to manipulate public opinion through the media and distort facts (or at best present partial facts).

Peace, Propaganda & The Promised Land. It is available on Youtube. (most of the interviewed people by the way are Jews)
13:27 April 2, 2010 by Nordic Prince
@enlightened #101

"I will just say that you are probably on this forum for a mission. To deliberately distort facts and influence public opinion"

You are 112% right.

Mossad, CIA and other dirty intelligence agencies usually hire trolls and pay them to post supportive opinions to their policies in order to influence public opinion.

Pretty clear: Dishonorable is one of them !

P.S. old dirty trick!
14:23 April 2, 2010 by honorable
To all adversaries: name one fact that I have distorted. You invert reality and you prove it by distorting the fact that my name is honorable! Facts are facts; I do not distort them nor have I distorted any. I am too much a scientific for that.

Now, go back to #100, for example and name the many facts distorted by this rabid antisemite. Or at least admit that this individual is obviously antisemite or demented.

That is what makes you rabidly angry at me to the point of distorting my name: you cannot contradict the facts that I bring to your attention. Your have only two exits avaialbe:

1) the honorable exit (admit that my points are correct and valid, though they do not cover all the relevant context, of course).

2) the exit used by the scum of society: distort the names of people, insult them, lie about them, say they are trolls the minute they bring arguments that destroy your lies, soon say that I'm on the payroll of Israel!...
14:46 April 2, 2010 by jaradat_omar
@dishonorable #102

Anti-Semitism is a Zionist bid they seek to enshrine it in the context of its global expansion, and they appear the word now and then in the form of Zionism on the charge of receiving all those opposed to its expansion plans and colonial cancer in the Arab region, and their penetration in the West.

Despite the fact that Israel is seeking to achieve through anti-Semitism word it remains a word alien in the Dictionary of Genealogy This word invented by the world theology German Austrian Chlotrber However, many of the Zionist in the world are not Jews, So they even in Jewish pseudo-word are not Semitic, then Many of the Jews are not Jews at all.

So go to hell and take your Semitism with ya!!
16:25 April 2, 2010 by honorable
Raoul Wallenberg forged passports to save jews ; Israël may have forged passports in order to eliminate a terrorist jew killers in Dubai without causing collateral damages (without risking the life of innocents passersby. Are we blaming Wallenberg for forging passports and not following the letter of the law ? NO.

I honour Wallenberg, and I honor Israel for using methods that minimize lethal risks to innocents. To do good you need sometimes to use means that are not entirely legal to the eyes of the narrow-minded incapable of seizing the bigger picture.
18:55 April 2, 2010 by jaradat_omar
Really funny Israel Killed 4010 Palestinians from the beginning of Al-Intefadah till 28 - 2 -2006 include 789 children also arrested 75 000 Palestinians and there are sill 8300 from them arrested till now include 370 children and killed about 1500 in Gaza to stop Tom 'n Jerry rockets and now they are thinking to minimize lethal risks to innocents....hahahahaha
19:16 April 2, 2010 by enlightened

according to 'dishonorable' Israel is an angel. They are just misunderstood by their neighbors and other civilized nations like Sweden. Nothing short of a 'carte blanche' for Israel to practice its state sponsored terror will satisfy 'dishonorable'. Israel should be allowed to murder whoever it deems a terrorist... no questions asked.

Not only that 'dishonorable' believes that the Swedish pension fund should invest in Israel murderous activities. Why not business seems to be very good these days.
17:46 April 3, 2010 by sebseb
Honorable is a Zionist Jew from Montreal. He spends his life going from blog to blog to defend the zionist regime. He freaks me out!
05:40 April 6, 2010 by ajs42548
Actually Arabs did NOT live peacefully with Jews before 1948. Look up the Hebron massacre of 1929, when Arabs massacred Jews for no reason. What about the massacre of 1936? Here is a small list of Arab massacres of Jews. Again this is just a SMALL list of dates of massacres.1847, 1870, 1882, 1901-07, 1871, 1873, 1877, 1891, 1828. I can list double this number but you get the idea.

During WW2, The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem complained to Hitler that he (Hitler) wasn't killing Jews fast enough. Yeah, the Arabs were friendly towards the Jews. There's a bridge I want to sell you too.

Tell me, what other religion has the concept of dhimmi? Those of you who say that Muslims protected the Jews conveniently forget to mention that the Jews had to live as dhimmis under their rule. Look up that word.

Why didn't the Palestinians get a state of their own in Gaza and the West Bank before 1967? Why did Mohammed himself behead 700 Jewish men and take the women and children as slaves? Now there is a role model if ever there was one.
15:05 April 9, 2010 by enlightened
I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. …the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power….I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain - especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks…

-- Albert Einstein speech in New York, 1938.
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