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What do the Swedish Gaza activists hope to achieve?

The Local · 3 Jun 2010, 15:50

Published: 03 Jun 2010 15:50 GMT+02:00

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As Swedish activists return from Israel and stride towards the waiting microphones and television cameras, it's important to take a look behind the events which took place off Gaza and perhaps revaluate the way Swedish activists engage in one of the most complicated regions on earth.  

It's worth saying at the very outset that the nine people who died on the Mavi Marmara didn't deserve to die. This is true whether they acted violently or peacefully, whether they were terrorist sympathizers or not, whether one agrees with their politics or not. The whole affair was handled badly by Israel, to say the least, and there are many questions about the legality and reasonableness of Israel's actions.

Beyond that, however, there is a bigger picture. 

Who actually profited from what happened? Well, most analysts agree that the biggest beneficiaries are the radical Islamists of the Middle East, notably Hamas, the terrorist organization which currently rules Gaza. Hamas won a major PR victory and gained valuable international legitimacy at the expense of moderate Palestinians and the Fatah leadership of the West Bank. Politically this is a boost for those Palestinians who object to peace negotiations with Israel, and prefer the more violent path of jihad, the so-called holy war against Israel and the non-Muslim world.

In Turkey, Islamist extremists are milking the incident to win easy points against secular and modernising forces. Iran is delighted that the world’s attention is being diverted away from its nuclear programme and arms deals with Hezbollah and Syria. As so often before in the Middle-East, the rhetoric of peace and freedom becomes a tool to strengthen despotic, terror-sponsoring regimes which scoff at both. This happened largely because, as Israeli author David Grossman put it, Israel acted like a puppet on strings pulled by a small fanatical Turkish organization. 

It's hard to tell if this is what the Swedish activists on the flotilla were hoping to achieve. If it wasn't, and their only aim was to deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza and protest against Israel's blockade, they must be extremely naïve if they call the flotilla a success. Assuming their intentions were good, they might want to consider a few changes next time they embark on Middle East mission. 

First, it's always good to know who your partners are. In this case, the IHH, the Turkish movement behind the Mavi Marmara, has proven links to terrorist organizations and global Jihad. It is now obvious that their aim wasn't only humanitarian aid: they have boasted that they were looking for violent confrontation and sadly Israel gave them more than they needed to make their point. Now they have their martyrs.

In reality, the flotilla was an unfortunate alliance of idealistic peace activists and hard-core Islamic extremists. Swedes genuinely wanting to help Palestinian refugees would do far better to act with bodies like the UN or the many local Palestinian or Israeli humanitarian organizations, which have been getting aid to Gaza and the West Bank for years. 

Second, in a conflict as complicated as this one, context is king. Many of those who condemn Israel for its blockade of Gaza don't even know that Gaza is also blockaded by Egypt. But Egypt, an Arab and Muslim country, is not the target of demonstrations, boycotts or international vilification. It would be interesting to see an international convoy trying to enter Gaza through the closed Egyptian Rafah crossing instead of the regular Israeli route, and no one should hold his breath to see demonstrators burning Egyptian flags in the next demonstration at Sergels Torg.  

This is because most Swedes see Israel as the sole aggressor whilst in reality, this is much more than a conflict between nations, it's a conflict within nations. The women of Gaza, for example, were victims of Gaza's armed men long before they were victims of Israeli tanks.

The children of Sderot in southern Israel were victims of the neglect of various Israeli governments long before they became victims of Palestinian missiles. And the sight of the Turkish government acting as a spokesman for human rights is probably very strange to some of its neighbours and citizens, like the Greeks, the Armenians, the Cypriots and the Kurds. This is a long and bitter conflict between forces of democracy and social progress and fundamentalist fanatics serving powerful global economic masters.   

Any Swede who wants to act in this region must realize that this is not just a question of Israel vs. Palestinians or Jews vs. Arabs. Painting it this way may make it easier to explain, but it's false. Iran’s machinations, the Egyptian blockade, Syria's domination of Lebanon, the mockery of human rights in the Arab world, and the violence in Iraq are just some examples which demonstrate that Israel isn't the real problem. At least not the only one.  

But Israel has become the neighbour everybody hates and that's its tragedy. It may have the most powerful army in the area and it may be the strongest economy but in the long run it will never survive as a Jewish democracy without recognition from its neighbors and legitimacy from the world. And this is exactly what it is losing now.

The Palestinians, on the other hand, need civilian development; they need industry, infrastructure and democratic institutions. These too can only come as a result of an international effort. If Swedish activists have perspective as well as good intentions, they should focus their efforts on these areas, not on provoking violent confrontations, however justified they may appear.  

Story continues below…

The last piece of advice for potential Swedish peace activists is this – peace is about understanding, compromise and reconciliation, not about winning an argument. Peace can never be achieved without understanding both sides, even the side you're initially opposed to. True, five years after its disengagement from Gaza successive Israeli governments seem to display a constant lack of moral judgment and continue to make terrible mistakes, both political and military.  

Monday's seizing of the Gaza-bound flotilla was just another mistake, as many Israelis reluctantly admit. By now many Israelis also realize that the three year blockade of Gaza is both wrong and ineffective. But it also remains true that Israel has a right to defend itself, and a basic duty to its citizens to prevent ever-more powerful weapons being smuggled into Gaza by land and sea by Syria and Iran who continue to arm their puppet allies. It is also true that international law does acknowledge a nation’s right to impose maritime blockades and the right to intercept ships even in international waters.

These events have gradually changed Israel, which has been under attack for too many years and has tried too many solutions. It signed peace agreements and withdrew from occupied-territories but the extremists on all sides invalidated these steps and led to yet more bloodshed. Every Israeli generation has seen full scale wars, military campaigns and endless terror attacks, everyone knows someone who was killed or injured, everyone is a soldier or a soldier's relative, and everyone is at war.    

And so Israel expels visitors just because they speak against it, it continues building settlements, irresponsibly risking its relationship with the US and it persecutes journalists and activists. Its government is wrapping itself in a warm blanket of self-conviction, behaving like it's the only victim, with truth being unconditionally and eternally on its side. Israelis have largely lost faith that the International community will ever be able to understand their unique position, and this is sadly becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.  

Does all this sound familiar? If it does, it's because these words describe the Palestinian condition too. It's a tough situation and it won't be resolved without help from the outside. Surely Sweden, with its long and rich record of diplomacy and moderation, could support moderates on both sides, resist provocations and promote the only realistic answer – a two state solution. Surely Sweden could do better than the Mavi Marmara. 

The Local (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

16:07 June 3, 2010 by pjtaipale
An intelligent article. Applause.
16:44 June 3, 2010 by Guy with a big whang
Really really good article, this goes into my bookmark folder, thank you.
17:51 June 3, 2010 by comfortably_numb
Good article, but I think it failed to mention that Hamas (although it acts violently) has agreed to accept resolution proposed from the UN General Assembly on a 2 state settlement based on borders from the pre-1967 borders.

This UN resolution which is voted on by 168 nations every year comes to more or less the same vote results each time: 161 in favor of the above resolution, and 7 against.

Who is against?


-United States

-Marshal Islands (small clutter of islands in the pacific)... See More

-Micronesia (small clutter of islands in the pacific)

-Nauru (small island in the pacific)

-Palau (small island in the pacific)


Its not hard to see that its almost unanimous. Israel and US, continuously vote against the rest of the world in a resolution which is not only accepted by the rest of the international community but a "terrorist" party, Hamas.

Here is the UN website on the outcome of this meeting, and the voting results as I mentioned above:

17:57 June 3, 2010 by eddie UK
Mr Floyd, unfortunately, you are incorrect - Hamas has never accepted the righ tof a Jewish Israel to exist.
18:11 June 3, 2010 by comfortably_numb
Eddie, here is a news item I pulled up by a simple google search from Haaretz.com, wherein Hamas leader accepts the resolution:

18:13 June 3, 2010 by dmj123
The Blockade is less wrong than the palestinians shelling and rocketing civilians. If the attacks stopped the blockade would not be needed. If the only aim is to deliver humanitarian aid then they could be sent freely through either the UN, Egypt or Isreali ports. This was planned from the onset by the turkish organizers to cause just such a clash. I have served on ships and hatchets, truchens, bulletproof vests and wieghted clubs are not part of the normal equipment. What would Swedes reaction be if Finns or Norwegians started lobbing rocket and mortors over the border because they felt that 40% of stockholm belonged to them? How about if we added suicide bombers at weddings and buses? People in general need to look beyound the PR and see what the real issue is here. The Palestinians and Arabs say they will accept a two state solution, but they want 90% of what is now isreal as their "half"
18:19 June 3, 2010 by flintis
At last a sensible article, congratulations extrenely well written, unfortunately I fear most of the smug faces on the above photgraph don't get the picture.
18:31 June 3, 2010 by eddie UK
A message from Mr Floyd to Mrs Floyd:

Yes, they will accept the temporary Palestinian State, (they already have kicked Israeli occupation and settlements out of Gaza), until they can kick the smaller Israel out of the rest of Palestine.

I refer you to the Hamas Charter:


especially Part III - Strategies and Methods

Article Eleven: The Strategy of Hamas: Palestine is an Islamic Waqf The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine has been an Islamic Waqf throughout the generations and until the Day of Resurrection, no one can renounce it or part of it, or abandon it or part of it.

In fact , even the moderate Fatah has the same long term strategy - they just didnt translate their charter into English 100%.

The Jews paid the price once in Europe, for appeasement (thanks UK and France), they then made the slogan "never again". I believe this survivor mentality explains the Israeli military ethos.

In any case, parts of Sweden are now become under the Caliphate - eg malmo, where the muslim majority has driven out the Jewish minority.
19:54 June 3, 2010 by alistairwhitman
Hamas accepts the borders but not the right for Israel as a state to exist.

These Swedes though well intentioned I am sure, seem typically naive and have allied their cause with that of radicals.

This flotilla had 6 ships in it. All where boarded by the IDF, violence occurred only one ship. Seems a bit odd doesn't it?
20:08 June 3, 2010 by orwellian
"Who actually profited from what happened? Well, most analysts agree that the biggest beneficiaries are the radical Islamists of the Middle East, notably Hamas, the terrorist organization which currently rules Gaza."

Wrong. Hamas benefits from the blockade. End the blockade and and Hamas will have less support. Of course Israel does not want this because then it's harder for them to justify the occupation.

"....they must be extremely naïve if they call the flotilla a success"

Israel did exactly what they wanted. Now the world see what oppressors they are. This has to be one of the worst failures in Israeli history.

If that is not success I don't know what is.
20:17 June 3, 2010 by eddie UK
George Orwell - i can agree with some of your points - but it's not as simple as Hamas benefitting or losing from the blockade being on/off

There is underlying hostility to Israel, both amongst left wing west, and Islamist nations.

When hamas blows up civilian buses or cafes in Israel, the same left wing defend hamas, as do the Islamists. They blame Israel for that (liek blaming the Jews for the nazi holocaust).

But then again, isn't that what muslim thugs say when they rape swedish women, they blame them for beign sexy.
20:37 June 3, 2010 by calebian22
Indeed a well written article!
20:49 June 3, 2010 by skyscraper
this is a completely biased article supporting Zionist regime.Israel is an illegitimate state on the face of the earth.on one hand this article says the attack was not fair but on the hand same old stereo type comments about Muslims. if Israel won't attack on fortila ship then it would have never happened and there was no point if hamas benefiting.so you guys must understand that Israel was created illegally on Palestinian land and they will never give up their legitimate stance.
21:23 June 3, 2010 by wisdoms
A completely biased article! Well written, to hide the facts and prove the violent acts of Israel right. Instead of admitting and condemning, what Israel did wrong switched the focus to other matters. And let Israel do whatever they want, even they kill innocent unarmed people on daily basis?

Shame on Israel and shame on the writer
21:54 June 3, 2010 by krdx
Totally biased article and does not have any sense of reality both in Turkey and about ship to gaza movement. Goverment in Turkey has nothing to do with having islamic country but having peace in Gaza. They are muslims as the other presidents are Christian in EU. At least they are not willing to have racist, fundamentalist government as Israel has. They are trying to fix Kurdish problem, Israel Problem, Iran problem. They do not obey Israel because they do not owe anything to them as other governments had. The first time of the history of Turkey, Turkey became so close to EU, close to fix its problems with its neighbors and within its region. Israel does not like this situation because still it want to have region"s control on its hands, which is impossible now. New star of the region is Turkey, accept it or not! Israel is trying to change current goverment because they still want to be spoilt boy in middle east but no way man. Your credit from ww2 had ended! Now, no one will remember you as victim of WW2. You will be remembered as pirates attacking peace activists.
22:40 June 3, 2010 by Rahelli
israel has right to defind itself
22:41 June 3, 2010 by ali_bin_umar
"A careful study of anti-Semitism prejudice and accusations might be of great value to many Jews, who do not adequately realize the irritations they inflict."
22:53 June 3, 2010 by comfortably_numb
Eddie, Waqf means "land". The passage to the Hamas charter that you reffered to is saying that they are fighting for a Palestanian land.

The question is not whether they think Israel exists. Israel DOES and WILL exist, the world accepts it as a state. However, the question that the UN is voting on and which hamas has accepted, is the existence of a Palestinian state along side an already existing Israeli state with borders defined by the pre-1967 boundaries.

This is agreed upon by 161 nations, including hamas, with two nations against, namely US and Israel.

By the way I'm not a religious man (i am infact athiest). Just doing my share of research and thought to what seems to be so far a unanimous world decision on what the solution out to be.
23:06 June 3, 2010 by sultanfahad
This text can be best appreciated in one word: "nonsense"
23:14 June 3, 2010 by Hagrid
Finally! A sensible, fair, well-balanced article that doesn't use empty slogans, doesn't resort to pre-conceived biases, doesn't stereotype, looks squarely and thoroughly at the hard facts of reality, and doesn't favor one side and demonize another. The legitimate claims as well as problems and weaknesses of both the Israelis and Palestinians are presented here in a fair manner. This is journalism at its best. There is hope for The Local after all.
23:28 June 3, 2010 by eddie UK
Roger Waters,

The point about hamas charter is that they want all of "palestine" - ie land occupied by muslim invaders , and then again by Ottoman (Turkish) Empire.

Why else would they have boycotted all the peace talks with Israel?

Let me explain: In the 1970s, the PLO was the majot Palestinians group, and hamas did not exist. They developed a strategy of destruction by stages -


So Hamas is only indicating they can use this same strategy .

Ther eis also a difference between de facto and de jure recognition - if you recognize de facto, it is recognizing the fact, which is obvious, they are fighting against the fact.

I appreciate what you are saying, and that you are being on partisan.

My thoughts on the turkish armada:

i think both sides, Turkey and Israel were provoking each other, or have been since Erdgogan came ot power. Turkey threatend Israel not to interfere witht he ships. If Israel had shown weakness, it would be a blank cheque fo turkey to do what they like.

Israel's mistake was to board the ship in the wrong way - they could have stopped it with toher means, rather than put their trooops in danger, and allow this conflict to occur.

If the two countries had compromised, this would not have happened. I beleive turkey wanted this to happen, so they could show the arabs that they are the strong men of the muslim world.
00:01 June 4, 2010 by comfortably_numb

regardless of what the Palestinian charter says, they have agreed with the rest of the international community with a Palestanian state based on pre-1967 borders.

If its a question of how much land each side wants, its clear that both sides want it all, if they could choose. Peace talks have been and will be based on compromise from both sides.

Seems to be that Palestinians are at least willing to accept borders and form a state under what the UN is suggesting. Israel (and US) refuse this.

As for the ship:

The only reason I see that this Turkish ship decided to head for Gaza despite the blockade and Israeli demands is that the blockade is not recognized by international law. The UN has repeatedly demanded the lift of this blockade because it is illegal. So the Turkish ship was only violating Israeli law and NOT international law.

In any case, Israel could have at least waited till the ship crossed into their territory before deciding to act. Why they chose to act at 4am, outside their own borders raises some questions.
03:38 June 4, 2010 by saab
Numb: Pre 1967 borders are completely indefensible. They were in pre 1967 and imagine now with SCUDS and long range missiles. Indeed, almost all of Israel is now in play from Southern Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank, to say nothing of Syria. You cannot just say "pre 1967" and think that Israel can defend itself from all sides when it isn't even clear that they could defend themselves today if attacked by all parties. Hamas and especially Hizbullah are fully armed with advanced weapons thanks to Iran and Syria. And maybe North Korea. Would you agree to the deployment of those missiles aimed at Gothenburg from Copenhagen? The distances are even smaller in Israel. Go there and see for yourself. You cannot ask one country to willingly committ suicide, especially the Jews who were abandoned by the world 70 short years ago, when they lost 50% (!!!!) of their population. No wonder the Israelis fight like the Dickens.
08:41 June 4, 2010 by comfortably_numb

First of all, I like to say I'm not a jew or a muslim or a christian and have nothing against either populations. The pre-1967 borders, is a solution in which ALL of the UN countries, 161 of them (which includes all of europian countries) have agreed to as a SOLUTION to the problem of Palestine-Israel.

With todays modern weaponery, the question of distance does not matter, nearly all countries in the world, have now the technological means to attack any other REGARDLESS of how far away they are. So to say that Israel will be right next to lands with weapons is a problem that every nation faces. The solution is to get the neighboring countries to agree on a peace agreement so that those weapons will not be used to harm Israel.

Israel has way more technological weaponry than Lebanon, Syria, Iran or Hamas. It can more than defend itself, especially with the backing of the US.

A 2 State re-solution set by the pre-1967 borders is an INTERNATIONAL solution to this problem, which has been agreed to by all, including Hamas, but Israel and US keep voting down.

Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Iran, Syria are all part of the 161 nations that have AGREED with the rest of international community to the solution above.


I don't see how it could be any more clearer than this.
10:01 June 4, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
What a sad and depressing article and I think it is shame there are so many responses calling it "fair" and "balanced".

It is steeped in Israeli propaganda.

Take this line:

" Israel, which has been under attack for too many years and has tried too many solutions. It signed peace agreements and withdrew from occupied-territories but the extremists on all sides invalidated these steps and led to yet more bloodshed."

Again Israel is portrayed as the victim.

Yes Israel is surrounded by lands and people who feel antagonistic to Israel. That is correct, sure.

But WHY is that?

You need to honestly answer that question if we want to have a fair" and "balanced"..

The fact that it has stolen and occupied Palestinian land is TOTALLY missing from this picture painted by Stavrou.

The fact that it has killed and continues to kill so may people with impunity is also lacking

The fact that it has been a well proven and well documented fact that many of the wars have been deliberately provoked BY Israei leadersl in order to gain more land by conquest is also missing.

Don't you think it would be the same with angry neighbours if Israel had been set up in 1948 in Texas or Europe or Canada and had expanded its territory by aggression and ethnic cleansing of the local inhabitants?

Do you really think it would be any different?

Whether the ignorance here displayed by the author and his fans is due to years of conditioning or denial I think it is shameful.
10:52 June 4, 2010 by comentatir
This article is racist!
12:45 June 4, 2010 by zircon
Israel has the right to define itself. Not a bad idea.
13:03 June 4, 2010 by bbeynch
A lot of people have weighed in above. Some more intelligent, or biased, than others. Some with only passing familiarity with the situiation at hand. Others still with raging dogma, infested with uncritically swallowed invective from Al Jazeera-TV. For the sake of clarity it would be useful if every commentator henceforth began their harangues with either A) Israel has a right to exist and defend her borders, or B) as so eloquently declamated by that vicious snake in Teheran, Israel should be wiped off the map. That way we would have a much more meaningful starting point for any exchange of ideas, as opposed to a poisonous and distorted hurling of idiom.
15:41 June 4, 2010 by JaneSpotting
Excellent article indeed
15:57 June 4, 2010 by eddie UK
Is there anybody out there? :)

"regardless of what the Palestinian charter says, they have agreed with the rest of the international community with a Palestanian state based on pre-1967 borders. "

No, the Palestinian charters are very important - and they are evidenced by behaviour of the various groups.

Gaza - Israel left this territory unilaterally about 4 years ago, and destroyed the settlements there. Hamas took power, murdering the PA police there, several hundreds, throwing them from rooftops. They upgraded their missile attacks into pre-67 Israel - as far as Gaza is concerned, they have the pre 67 territory, and Israel has its, So it is proof that Hamas has no interest in peace, but to continue fighting Israel, to destroy even the pre-67 borders.

I have seen on some talkbacks, peopel are saying that Israel's Holocaust sympathy has run out. That is probably true. It means we are now back to a level of 1939 anti-semitism. It also means nobody cares if Israel is destroyed , eg by Iran or Turkey. Remember, in Europe, nobody stood up to Hitler. It was only the British and the Americans, and that was not primarily to save Jews, but becasue the British had been fooled by the Munich agreement, and had commitments to Poland.

Turkey is actually a bloody dictatorship , whose holocaust of 1.5 million Armenians was a case study for Hitler on how to get away with genocide. The IHH group that was ont he armada to gaza, wa also responsible for the attempted bombing of LAX airport.
17:06 June 4, 2010 by saab
As per BBeynch:

A) Israel has a right to exist and defend her borders

Now Mr. Numb: does it concern you, at least a little bit, that "Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Iran, Syria are all part of the 161 nations that have AGREED with the rest of international community to the solution above".

Frankly whenever you get Mubarak, Ahmedinajad,Assad, the Hashemite King and other dictators to agree on anything, I would advise that you run in the opposite direction.

Would an argument predicated on the fact that Hitler, Stalin, Emperor Hirohito and the Mufti of Jerusalem were signees convince you that the agreement was a good one? How about an agreement between Chamberlain and Hitler (I think we learned the hard way about that one)?

But before some of my friends on this site state "Don't tell me about all that... it was a European problem... and you are killing my brothers and sisters in Palestine", I say, be careful with whom you share your bed and bath.
17:27 June 4, 2010 by dmj123
Below is an interseting article which points out some facts which are not getting much air time in the media.

17:38 June 4, 2010 by europeman31
Very strange that The local allow the biased view from an Israeli Jewish journalist . This is indeed funny how interlink the post and the comments .

what it seems by the author and major comments is to justifying the torture by Israels and his illegitimate occupation of lands. atleast a person who has a little view of media can see the sources of the writings . and the person if he has a little historical knowledge would easily make the view how Israel behaved and treated the innocent civilians.

Fruthermore with the random links posted aboves makes no sense BUT it does makes good propaganda.
17:56 June 4, 2010 by Kevin Harris
Good job David Stavrou.

Are there a few more million Israeli voters like you. Sadly no. No democratically elected Israeli government will have the mandate, or the courage, to resolve the Palestinian question in a balanced way that is fair and acceptable to both sides. Isrealis just aren't in the mood; they have learned to live with the fear.

Israel will blunder on; it must. Assasination after assasination, massacre after massacre, war after war, losing friend after friend, until in the medium or long term, one of its many enemies will prevail. Half a dozen angry mad men will get lucky, and the dream will be over. You can't make that many people that angry, for so long without paying the price in the end.

I very much hope I am wrong and an Israeli electorate chooses a government that is serious about paying the heavy price for peace before it is too late. Of course the Palestinians are going to have to pay a heavy price too, the trouble is, so much has been taken from them, they haven't got much left to give.
18:48 June 4, 2010 by ali_bin_umar
It is only TIME which decides what is good and what is bad. Even war's ethic forbid intentional killing of civilians as done by Israels. The boats mechanism could have been destroyed in order to stop them instead of droping the commandos onboard with guns. It was 100% ,without any doubt, premediated killings of civilians.

Let the TIME takes its course to witness the fall of murderer. The writer viewpoints should transcends any religion or race, but not true in this article.
19:03 June 4, 2010 by rohermoker
As Charles Kruthammer wrote:

The world is tired of these troublesome Jews, 6 million -- that number again -- hard by the Mediterranean, refusing every invitation to national suicide. For which they are relentlessly demonized, ghettoized and constrained from defending themselves, even as the more committed anti-Zionists -- Iranian in particular -- openly prepare a more final solution.
19:56 June 4, 2010 by Kronaboy


I have heard a number of people mention they wish to boycott unethical companies, may I suggest Com-Hem which is now unfortunately a part of the Carlyle group.

Peace to every one and I hope you all remember to have a wonderful weekend with your children:

19:59 June 4, 2010 by teolabm
This is totally a well-written biased article. The writer hid the real facts and tried to move the common sentiment of the concious people. Same stereo-typed argument to justfy the killing of Israel daily basis of innocent civilians.

Dont try to make the 2 Swedish writer and human activists "naive". They are very concious about what they did and with whom they went to help the people of Gaza. They are experts in thier fields. Stay away to make people fool of this kind of biased articles.

Each time they kill an Arab, they say he was Hamas-leader, terrorist or so. This is to eye-wash. And the Flotilla killing is the black day in the human history and luckily succeeded to draw the world-attention. Now the world see how the Israelis treat their neighbours exactly the way the Jews had been treated by Nazis during the World War II and during the centruries in Europe.

It important to mention that the Jewish people had undoubtedly much better position under the Muslims rulers during the history.
21:54 June 4, 2010 by tgolan
The Turkish criticism of Israel:

What hypocrisy,

it is time for Turkey to stop its occupation, and repression of the Kurds, to end its occupation

of northern Cyprus and in addition, Turks must take responsibility for their

mass murder of Armenians 100 years ago when the Turks killed 1.5 million innocent civilian Armenians only because they were Christians.
23:01 June 4, 2010 by boby
Lol @ Turkey.

Turkey and Germany, the only two countries in the world that comitted a genocide. End of discussion.
23:01 June 4, 2010 by Alasdair MacCorquodale
An excellent article. Well argued.
23:15 June 4, 2010 by Zonob
Another piece of crap written by a Zionist supporter. Hamas is not a terrorist organization. It's a national freedom movement. Hamas has NEVER been involved in a single incident targeting any Jews outside Palestine. They target Zionist Jews in Palestine because they have been occupying their land, killing their people since 1948. Zionists like you can not see these simple facts because they are blinded by their bigotry fueled by their racism and haltered towards these Palestinians because they are Arabs and Muslim. Go flog your crap somewhere else. Free long lived Palestine!
00:26 June 5, 2010 by Essjay
Sorry mate , I remember when the PLO ruled Palestine and Israel did everything possible to destroy them ,now Israel looks to them as they were not as militant as Hamas ,Israel caused a war in Palestine between different factions ,the PLO were already defeated and along came the powerful Hamas ,similiar situations happened with the Jews in Warsaw ,finally those that embraced death rather than oppression emerged ,rather die fighting than die watching my neighbours and family die everyday ,so weird you cannot see that for once ,just for once ,this was a peace convoy , if you had let this go through ,checked the cargo at the proper place ,that the world would have considered you in a totally different light , that peace was an objective , no you played the hard man ,now Turkey will cut off your gas and fresh water supply ,maybe your oil supply will be cut off as well from muslim suppliers ,plus the massive boycott of Israeli goods worldwide .

In London 500 demonstrators were outside the Israeli Embassy supporting Israels actions ,500? 500? a local village fair gets 4 x times that and on top of which were the true heros ,the Jews ,the real Jews ,not your politically fanaticed Zionists .but true Jews who do not want to follow the zionist way who demonstrated against Israel,s intententions...like true Germans against the Nazis ,they knew what would happen but no one bloody well listened
01:35 June 5, 2010 by geekgirl
A wise man once said: You tell a lie so many times, and people actually start believing it

1. Hamas the biggest beneficiary

Is that why Israel continues to use the same argument as Hamas: the other side is starving the Gazans? Hamas, which has long been infiltrated by the Mossad, continues to exist, despite lack oh caves & mountains to hide in. But there's always the "hiding behind civilians" argument; same civilians that never deter IDF use of Sulphur, Cluster bombs and 1- or 2-ton bombs. Please enlighten me on how Israel assassinated Mabhouh in Dubai, bombed Syrian targets for suspicions of a joint-nuclear-project with N. Koreans, assassinated Hamas leaders - old-man-on-wheel-chair Ahmad Yassin (March 2004), al-Rantissi (April 2004), yet cannot get someone (out in the open) like Khaled Meshaal (in Syria)?

2. The Islamist extremists in Turkey are milking the incident

And why haven't they milked the multiple failed assassination attempts (backed by the Mossad) of their super-popular PM, Ordogan?

3. The Activists are naïve or terrorist sympathizers if they call Flotilla a success

i.e. You're either with us or against us

4. It's always good to know who your partners are

i.e. Check your family and friends for terrorist ties (Criticism of Israel)

5. The (Ottoman) Turkish Genocide of Armenians

Misdirection; the US congress puzzled the masses with its unwieldy efforts to denounce Turkey for something - even "historic". Incidentally, that's after Turkey denounced Israeli war crimes in Gaza. Was it really only motivated by the Aremenian-American Lobby, or by the Israeli-Lobby and AIPAC? Remind me again what happened to the Native Americans, the blacks, the Mexicans?

6. Intl. law acknowledges a nation's right to impose maritime blockades and to intercept ships even in international waters.

Is that so? How about the Straits of Tiran that Egypt blockaded in 1956, the Tripartite agression (UK, FR, IL), and in 1967 leading to Israeli "pre-emptive strike" despite Kissinger's assurances that Israel won't attack?

David, I urge you to revise your history, or else it may come back to haunt you.
03:29 June 5, 2010 by waffen
Turkey and Germany the only two countries that committed genocide?

Have you heard of Cambodia? How about Russia under Stalin?

How about the United States in their systematic and ongoing genocide against the Native Peoples, and their Gulags called Reservations?,

Are you a student of history or just a historonic student?

How about Sweden and the Sami?
03:40 June 5, 2010 by geekgirl
Followup on: http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=27022#comment539835


Kissinger wasn't involved then (1967). It was President Lyndon B. Johnson and his advisers that assured Nasser that Israel won't attack.

26 May: Israeli FM Abba Eban met with US Secretary of State Dean Rusk, Defense Secretary Robert McNamara, and President Johnson. In a memo to the President, Rusk rejected the claim of an Egyptian and Syrian attack being imminent, plainly stating "our intelligence does not confirm the Israeli estimate".

According to declassified documents from the Johnson Presidential Library, Johnson and other top officials did not believe war between Israel and its neighbors was necessary or inevitable. Johnson declined to airlift special military supplies to Israel or even to publicly support it. Eban left the White House distraught. The new instructions were sent at the instigation of Chief of Staff Yitzhak Rabin, who was eager to force an American decision; either Johnson would have to commit to specific American action then, or Israel would be free to act on its own.

Nasser responded (30 May) to Johnson's request and agreed to send his VP, Zakkariya Muhieddin, to Washington on 7 June to explore a diplomatic settlement in "precisely the opening the White House had sought". Johnson later wrote "I have never concealed my regret that Israel decided to move when it did".

On 1 June, Moshe Dayan was made Israeli Defense Minister, and Israel continued to prepare for war. Israel's attack against Egypt on June 5 began the "Six-Day War". According to Martin van Creveld, the IDF pressed for war: "...the concept of 'defensible borders' was not even part of the IDFs own vocabulary. Anyone who will look for it in the military literature of the time will do so in vain. Instead, Israel's commanders based their thought on the 1948 war and, especially, their 1956 triumph over the Egyptians in which, from then Chief of Staff Dayan down, they had gained their spurs. When the 1967 crisis broke they felt certain of their ability to win a 'decisive, quick and elegant' victory, as one of their number, General Haim Bar Lev, put it, and pressed the government to start the war as soon as possible".

Israel will never agree to a two-state settlement based on pre-1967 borders. Just like in the UN GA/10896; first vote: 112 in favour to 9 against, then 162 in favour to 8 against. If we reorder those against and cross out the Pacific Islands, it narrows down to Israel, U.S., Canada (America's Hat), Australia..

Israel will not negotiate or capitulate until it elects a sensible leader who will be ready to make concessions when Israel suffers a considerable defeat. Other than that, I don't see Israel agreeing to a 2-state agreement based on pre-1967 borders. This is simply because for Israel, and its history, what had been taken by force is never returned except by force. Yom Kippur tells it.
06:49 June 5, 2010 by jnightingale
Hilary Clinton's recent statement on the "unsustainable state of Gaza" comments does not help to bring the Israeli/Palestinian conflict to a closer solution. Clearly the Israeli naval fiasco that occurred on the Turkish ship was tragic and unnecessary. However, this tragic event required two culprits. On one hand, Islamic provocateurs and on the other hand poorly trained Israeli troops. Having said that, we need now to address the underlying causes to this tragic event. The Palestinians have been rocketing Israel for more than seven years and no one has pressured them to cease these cruel attacks on Israeli civilians. However when Israel finally retaliates and launches a campaign to destroy these attackers and infrastructure, the world cries out for international condemnation and produces biased Goldstone reports. Israel's naval blockade of Gaza, although quite imperfect, has stemmed the number of attacks on her soil. Clearly, this blockade has had serious consequences on the living conditions of the ordinary Palestinians living in Gaza but for that matter Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel have also taken a toll on the well-being of the Israeli civilians. That Israel is entitled to live in peace and not have rocket attacks on her citizens does not require rocket science. When the EU, USA, surrounding Arab states finally convince the Hamas government via sticks or carrots to cease firing on Israeli civilians, the Palestinians will then be able to lead a more normal live with shipping channels open to them. Until then, don't let biased world public opinion or appeasement tactics of Islamic nations fool you that Israel is the only guilty party to this tragic situation.

I would also add that Egypt is seriously concerned about having a radicalized Hamastan country sitting on her borders armed with powerful and long range rockets. Turkey's love affair with the Palestinian cause is clearly a result of her policy of moving closer to Iran which she fears.

Hope that my comments are taken in good stride.


Jed Nightingale

09:12 June 5, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
Well written response (#15) by krdx. I agree with you.

Dear Jed Nightingale. you have it back to front.

There were NOT "TWO culprits".

The Flotilla did NOT break international law.

Israel did.

The people of the Flotilla did NOT KILL anyone. Israeli's did.

The flotilla was not terrorising anyone.

It was delivering essential aid to a people suffering under a three year illegal Israeli blockade.

Israel is terrorising those people of Gaza and now it has terrorised the people trying to help them.

The blockade is a collective punishment and is against international law.

The Flotilla are NOT "culprits" for highlighting that illegality. They are heroes for risking their lives to draw our attention to it.

JN: "...we need now to address the underlying causes to this tragic event. The Palestinians have been rocketing Israel for more than seven years..."

- - But that is NOT the "cause" of the problem.

Those rocket attacks ARE NOT unprovoked aggression. That is a Zionist myth and lie. Look at this picture of the map of Israel/Palestine and you might understand why:


JN: "...no one has pressured them to cease these cruel attacks on Israeli civilians...."

- - What? :-0 You are living in a fantasy world if you believe that. The USA not only "pressurises" "them" to stop it actually arms and payrolls the IDF to effect that.

JN: "...produces biased Goldstone reports...".

- - Most people actually believe the report was the most fair and accurate done on the Cast Lead op.

Someone asked to write whether you support Israel's right to exist in any reply.

But that begs the question 'exist where?

What is the territorial extent of this Israel that must be allowed to "exist*?

THAT is the question that nobody asks or answers apart from the Palestinians.

THAT is big the problem and the real CAUSE of this ongoing conflict
09:34 June 5, 2010 by steve_38
I dont agree with what the Israeli forces did.

But if you lived in a Country where most of your neighbours would quite happily kill all of your people without a worry, I think most people would react as they do.

The only reason its like it is the Arabs are abunch of camel jockeys who generally are unable tof igth versus the Israeli people who do actually fight and normally sort them out.

We should just leave them to it, its never going to be sorted.

You generally cant trust the Arabs.

Why were the people on the "Aid convoy" armed with weapons and body armour ? I bet some were real do gooders but by the look of it a fari few scum bags with them.

Why were they bringing aid when the Israelis are aloowing in food etc its other stuff they are not letting in.

The real issue behind this is the Turkish goverment playing games with this Turkish goverment funded aid convoy.

Read the article in yesterdays Daily Telegraph.

I am not Jewish but I feel very sorry for the people of Israeli far more than the people of Palestine.

How many of the do gooders would want to live in Israel ?? not many.
10:14 June 5, 2010 by Grass
Perhaps it is time that the Americans stop playing big brother for the Israelies and let the rest of the middle east blow the crap out of them.

I am more than disgusted with the whole Israeli arrangment over the last 12 month, assasinating Hamas official using faked passports from "allied" countries. If they want to abuse those allies they have for their own selfish purposes - Is some cases acts of terrorism themselves - then perhaps we should all step aside and let them try to fend for themselves.

Lets see how long Israel would last without the USA backing them up.
11:52 June 5, 2010 by Kronaboy


Reports have just arrived MV Rachel Corrie has been illegally boarded by IDF fascists, may I invite all my brothers to recite a short prayer for our Martyred Sister Rachel Corrie and the 111 children poisoned while gold mining in Nigeria.

13:24 June 5, 2010 by Juankie
I registered simply for this article.

It is powerfully written, impeccably objective and intelligently argued. I was very touched by your article and I am happy to see that rationality wins over mainstream beliefs and media hysteria, if people disregard historical context then what has this world come to?

It pisses me off that countries that abuse human rights and have done so historically, the Armenian Genocide by Turkey to say the least, even dare condemn Israel for the choices it has made. Not all of them have been good, or fair. But what people fail to understand is the mentality of a people who since the beginning of humankind have been hunted by all others, expelled from countries, massacred in genocides and now that they were given their own country by THE UNITED STATES AND THE UNITED KINGDOM I might add, all the arab nations around them have wanted them destroyed.

It is disgraceful, but please do not think I am only attacking the Arab world, Israel has its many flaws with its continous expansion and attacks on others with disregard for the consequences in the long run.

I loved your article, I hope you continue to write. You are a magnificent writer.
15:09 June 5, 2010 by kokoloco
The best Turkish video so far!

18:13 June 5, 2010 by oasking
A masterpiece. An objective reasoning. The action is not right, but the current situation calls for it.

We shouldn't put our lives in an unnecessary danger situation just to make a statement. The statements were already made by embarking on the journey. By turning around wouldn't have meant a defeat, but rather a victory. Lost lives are lost forever, their names will be forgotten soonest.

One does not go to war ill-prepared.
20:49 June 5, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
"The blockade of Gaza is wrong",opines David Stavrou.

"The blockade of Gaza is wrong "?

When did it become wrong? Has it always been wrong?

Senator Joe Lieberman fields an opposing view which is much closer to the common sense that has directed the Blockade:


If you were Israel would it be reasonable to ensure that ships laden with goods from hostile places like Iran ( perhaps with terrorists too as manpower aid) did not supply HAMAS with the commodity that they prize the most (after their own lives) namely the weapons with which they intend to fight their enemy ( the worlds 4th mightiest military - and allies ) to a cataclysmic surrender/ submission?

The problems are not insurmountable. Even for the suicide bomber the solution is not arrived at by giving a wrong answer answer to this question.

" to take arms against a sea of troubles. And, by opposing, end them"?

There's an infrastructure of surrounding realities and this link provides some food for thought.


Among the doomsday prophets, Armageddon is just round the corner, namely, the battle between nuclear Islam and the West - but before we get there, lets take a few steps back from the precipice.

After war, it's usually peace, not just a ceasefire (as between North and South Korea). Sure, even after that war some expect 1,000 years of peace with Jerusalem as the capital. In the meantime, is war merely like a game of chess - in which at the end of the game you place all the pieces in place again for the next game?

I see that Peace can be EASILY achieved.

I advocated that Hamas should be allowed to take part in the Palestinian election - when their participation was being objected to.

All the HAMAS leader has to say and mean is, "WE want peace: Israel, we understand that your lives, your wives and your children and their security is very important. Our lives and our wives and our children and our security and the future of our Palestinian people is also very important - and because we understand that in the long run or in the short run, peace cannot be achieved by war - in the interest of that peace, we renounce terrorism."

That would be the first stage of the miracle.

When I listened to al Shawal the Mayor of Gaza in 1987 - soon after Hamas was created apart from beseeching the Swedish government to build them a harbour so that they could export their tomatoes ( at which time there were still some 9,000 Jewish " settlers" in Gaza)

it was when he was talking about the absence of children's playgrounds in the concrete jungle of Gaza, that he started crying...... so the present crying of Gaza, is best about building a peaceful and secure future and less about glorious jihad that will establish the garden of paradise here on earth or on dar-al-Islam....

That's how I see it, very funda-mentally
23:49 June 5, 2010 by jnightingale
Response to Jed Nightingale by #48

Many of your points provide valid questions. However, you have not satisfactorily addressed the issue of Palestinian rocket attacks on civilian centers in South of Israel. Are you recommending that Israel sit put while hundreds and thousands of rockets are fired with impunity by the Palestinians of Gaza? No country would ever tolerate such abuse.... Regarding the issue of the Goldstone report, why did this report get compiled only after seven years of rocket attacks on Israel. Further more, how many activists have condemned the most recent rocket attacks on Israel in the last five days?
00:22 June 6, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
It's not as if “activists” can only refer to people of the latest “Freedom Flotilla. Just over a month ago Egypt convicted 26 people found guilty “of planning terrorist attacks on ships and tourist sites on behalf of the Lebanese Shia Organisation Hezbollah, which claimed it was seeking to support Palestinian resistance to Israel in the Gaza Strip. A court in Cairo handed down jail terms ranging from six months to life to 22 suspects of Palestinian, Lebanese Egyptian and Sudanese origin” (World Roundup. The Guardian Weekly, 7-13th May 2010)


“How many activists have condemned the most recent rocket attacks on Israel in the last five days?” That's a good question for the very vocal Mattias Gardell and Henning Mankell who want peace for Gaza.

Once we have peace in that area united we (earthlings) may have to turn to this kind of threat:

00:55 June 6, 2010 by High Priestess Kang - Slut
Kudos to the author of this article!

Note to Mr Savage et cie...

A few more well thought, decently written pieces like this and you will cease to exist as The Jokal and you may be deserving of the praise The Economist has heaped upon you.
07:04 June 6, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
Answer to Jed Nightingale #57.

Dear Jed

This is a red herring and obfuscation.

No country has the right to board and take control of shipping vessels on the open seas and in so doing kill people. No country has the right to then kidnap them, take them against their will to another country and then deport them for illegal entry to that country. No state has the right to steal their possessions and confiscate all film of the event and then use selected parts of that film for propaganda purposes without permission.

Do you agree or not?

You ask: "Are you recommending that Israel sit put while ...rockets are fired with impunity by the Palestinians of Gaza?"

No. I am recommending that Israel does the opposite. Instead of "sitting put" it withdraws from the territories it has occupied.

And you are still appear to be in the grip of myths and falsehoods.

First there is no "impunity" for firing rockets. For example what do you think Op Cast Lead was? That lethal collective punishment was armed, supported and payrolled by the US and meekly accepted with weak words from Europe. Do you call that impunity?

You didn't look at my link to those maps then?


You ask: "why did this [Goldstone] report get compiled only after seven years of rocket attacks on Israel.

The question seems to not understand the reason for the report.

It is that NO country has the right to break international law in the pursuit of its security. No state or organisation or country has that right. Not Hamas and NOT Israel either.

Y'see what yo appear to fail to see is that no western government supports the rocket attacks against Israeli civilian targets. All western countries denounce it as an illegality and a war crime. All western countries condemn Hamas and won't do business with it

But nearly all Western governments support Israel and do business with it. Therefore it is only just and right that if and when Israel behaves illegally and murderously and commits war crimes against civilian targets that it be condemned for it. Do YOU agree or not?

The Goldstone report provides evidence of exactly that charge with merely the call that its charges should be properly investigated.

Israel refuses to even consider such a thing and the USA supports them.

Now, that is what I call illegal war crimes and killing "with impunity".
08:22 June 6, 2010 by dsc
"This flotilla had 6 ships in it. All where boarded by the IDF, violence occurred only one ship. Seems a bit odd doesn't it? "

Would really love to have an answer to that question. Anyone???
08:41 June 6, 2010 by cblanquer
Long article with many words that do not depict the acts.

Faced to breaking the Gaza blokage with non violent principles (I am not dicussing the contents of the load in the boats), the Israelian state CHOSE to apply state terrorism by pirate means, dvs ensure no further initiatives will take place usint the non violent, human rights principles.
10:01 June 6, 2010 by Annaya
If one of Sweden's neighbors lobbed rockets into one of its cities, Sweden would certainly do something about it.

The Rachael Corrie named for the "human shield" that placed herself in front of a bulldozer with a Russian operator that could not understand what she said ...even if he could have heard her over the engine. Smart, huh?

Israel has been under attack since 1947. I have no problem with a nation defending itself.

The United States gives Egypt 2.2 billion dollars in foreign aid each year.

Jordan gets 400 million.

The Palestinian Authority is given 1 billion dollars per year and Obama just added another 20 million. Bush in his last year gave an extra 25 million.

Just where does all this money go....not to the people of Gaza but into the hands of Hamas and other politicians.

Israel gets 3 billion a year from the U. S.

The American defense budget is 711 billion dollars a year.

To wipe out the Israeli's you go through us first.

I am not Jewish, I am not a right wing Christian but as an

American.....I do stand for Israel!
12:11 June 6, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg


To begin with, I don't think that even in a court of law we should depend on the partial & partisan reports of the vociferous Mattias Gardell and Henning Mankell who both admit that they did not see everything – in fact there are contradictions in Gardell's various accounts – first he said that he himself didn't see but was told by his eyewitness comrades about what happened – then in yesterday's Dagens Nyheter he tells us that he saw some of the action on close circuit TV, down, somewhere in one of the cabins – the pressroom where he had apparently taken refuge.

This probably means that he pleads not guilty - he already has an alibi - bearded yes, but he was not among the armed resistance wielding baseball clubs and kitchen knives or armed with a shooting gun. He was only the piano player, a sympathizer with such actions taken by his fellow, not so peaceful passengers. I won't say that I blame him for taking such a pacifist stance since it's said in some such situations, “discretion is the better part of valour “. – and even in the case of Jesus Christ it is reported that at the point when he was arrested, “all his disciples forsook him and fled.”

I don't think that it's wise to take out your .45 when a cop or soldier is sent to arrest you. It could be for the relatively minor sin of trespassing, of navigating Israel's holy territorial waters, without permission, even if you are a few nautical miles off the said holy waters, but willy-nilly still approaching full speed ahead, according to avowed & declared intent - approaching like a thief in the dead of night…..

As Israel's ambassador to Sweden Benny Dagan said, “These absurd and baseless accusations are not the sort of things that merit any comments, especially when they are being altered from day to day.”

You could get a more comprehensive picture by clicking on Flotilla facts:


Your high points seem to be about the moral and legal justification of Israel protecting Herself. As to the legal aspect of the Freedom Flotilla debacle (special reference to the last ship which was obviously loaded with Hamas Sympathiser freedom flotilla fighters) well some legal heavyweights like Alan Dershowitz have weighed in on the matter. I don't know who Ted Nightingale is, but I'm sure that you know who Mr. Dershowitz is. Under Global Commentary and Think-Tank Analysis (Best of U.S., UK, and Israel): he responds to the legal aspect that you challenge: http://www.dailyalert.org/

I've had problems with several of my entries – have had to edit down to 3000 words and so it's in the next instalment that I'll engage your questions, blow by blow.

Don't go away.
14:01 June 6, 2010 by wolfbay
This alliance of Swedish leftist intellectuals and Muslim fundamentalists reminds me of the Iranian overthrow of the Shah. Once accomplished the mullahs knew how to take care of the intellectuals. As the " Malmo-ization" of Sweden continues these intellectuals will eventually get theirs.
14:37 June 6, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
Annaya (#62) wrote: "If one of Sweden's neighbours lobbed rockets into one of its cities, Sweden would certainly do something about it."

Sure. Absolutely agree.

And if that Swedish city was built on an ethnically cleansed and stolen city from one of Sweden's neighbours who had ever since been subjected to the kind of treatment that Israel has been meting out to its Palestinan neighbours for the last sixty years, then the world community would be quite right in condemning Sweden.

Look it really is quite simple... The issue is only a point of EQUAL human rights and protection under international law for ALL.

Israel does NOT respect that principle and due to a mythology of victim-hood persecutes its neighbours in pusuit of its own security above everyone else's. It is regrettably a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And now it has done the same thing against the Turks.

And all just because it refused to allow in a shipment of some children's toys, medicines, wheelchairs, dentist equipment etc.

It would be laughable if it wasn't so sick and twisted.
14:44 June 6, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg

It's not a hypothetical situation. Here's some more background information:


You say that,

” No state has the right to steal their possessions and confiscate all film of the event and then use selected parts of that film for propaganda purposes without permission.”

What you say echoes a dumbfounded Mattias Gardell who was crying in yesterday's Dagens Nyheter in almost identical words: “They took all that I had, clothes, money, computer, technical equipment… I don't understand how Israel could be feeding the world with the short film sequences of what happened” Interestingly enough Gardell tells us that three Israel soldiers from the helicopter were taken prisoner. Their weapons were taken from them, he says and THROWN OVERBOARD!

Gardell also claimed that some of passengers were missing, but this has been demented by the Turkish authorities.

There's always the danger of repeating yourself tirelessly and when that happens even lies and distortions start taking on the contours of infallible truth on the minds of popular imagination of those who were not there and did not see all the footage on TV, especially when their minds are already made up not only before but also after any evidence or doubts, to the contrary.

I've just listened to Mark Regev - as lucid as always, on BBC World News, contrasting the behaviour of the non-violent peaceful Irish and Malaysian passengers on “Rachel Corrie”, with that of the hooligans who caused all the premeditated trouble on the Mavi Marmara

Jed Nightingale # 56 has his own answers to those very specific questions and so does #57, but I'll wait for Nightingale's response, however, since these are general questions to all concerned I'll take a shot at answering your paragraph about which you want to know “Do you agree or not?”

I'll do a follow up on Nightingale's response but for now let me present the scenario that will better clarify the situation to you:

Yesterday the news flashed on the al-Jazeera screen that the Turkish Prime Minister was going to lead an aid expedition to Gaza, and that his vessel would be protected all the way to Gaza, by special vessels of the Turkish Navy. It's possible that EU's good friend the Mighty Turkey is anxious to take over leadership from Iran as the militant spearhead of Militant World Islamism – but I hope that Turkey and Israel will soon be good friends again – there have after all been massacres and other transgressions against not only Armenians but also Kurds in their dominion – on a scale that would make the tragedy of what happened on Mavi Marmara, quite insignificant.


It's clearly the path of confrontation and not compliance. What do you think would happen then?

The White House responds that it's better to calm the situation and the tensions in that area and not to further exacerbate it
14:53 June 6, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
To Cornelius Hamelberg, the IDF commandos are NOT cops.

Israel is NOT the police force of the world.

Sheesh. What are you people thinking? :-o

To Annaya, do you know anything about whose house Rachel Corrie was protecting from demolition when she was so callously and hatefully killed.

It was a Doctor with three kids. Have you any idea WHY his house was being demolished?

These are people like you and I who just want to live their lives in some comfort and happiness with a future for their kids. You can't deprive them of that and expect no reaction.

Look, its really very very simple. Israel has the right to protect its citizens from attack. But it must do so by staying within international law.

Turkey must also have the same rights to protect its citizens with the support of International law

Turkish seamen must also have the same rights to protect their vessel and themselves from attack.

And what about the poor Palestinians. Do they not have any rights?

Israel and all you who supporters here seem to think they do not.

Go and live in Gaza for a few weeks under the same conditions that Palestinians live under and I am quite sure you ALL would feel a bit differently
15:06 June 6, 2010 by reckoning
The smug faces on the above photograph, and most especially the so called "History Professor" are guilty of organizing a mass suicide. Israel has every right to keep resupply to terrorist working within their National Territory from passing the blockaid. A history buff with half a brain cell would know that thousands of rockets have been launched against Israeli civilians over the past several years which is precisely why this blockade is presently in place. Contrary to Haarats (hate Israel news) said about Hamas agreeing to a compromise, NO compromise has been struck. Think twice there History Revisor before you send Innocent people as a sheild for Terrorist against Israel.
15:52 June 6, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
I've been told this more than a hundred times, even last night:

”Go and live in Gaza for a few weeks under the same conditions that Palestinians live under and I am quite sure you would feel a bit differently” .

Of course I would and then I'd have to reason with HAMAS. I have friends from Gaza and Hamas and from the so called “West Bank” known to us as Judea and Samaria. I also have friends in Hezbollah. I understand them.

In June 1991 – after four months in Egypt (Alexandria, Cairo, University of Cairo, al- Azhar etc) I was finally on my way to Gaza, through the Rafah crossing - it was all planned – I had a few names and addresses to visit but at the last minute when I rehearsed with my tutor, who asked me “And what are you going to tell the border guards when they ask you, “What is the purpose of your visit?”,

I answered, “I will tell them that the Messiah is here and I have come to liberate my oppressed Palestinian brothers and sisters and to resurrect the Holy Temple in Jerusalem!”

I was joking of course, but my Jewish Californian brother who had been teaching English to Bedouin Arabs in the Negev was so angry!!!

On the following morning my notebook and diary was gone and so was he, from our hotel, he had disappeared as mysteriously as he had first appeared at breakfast in our hotel in Alexandria.and that was the end of that….

Yes mysticbumwipe, I agree with you “the IDF commandos are NOT cops.” - it was only an analogy – you know that when they board the ship that you may be travelling on in the near future, with the intention of breaking the blockade – they then have the power and authority of a cop - I know that at this point you are mentally now screaming BUT NOT IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS!!! Ok well what about when you are 61 miles from the coast of Gaza – are you going to change course or have your direction changed for you? Or do you then decide to start another chapter of “Gunfight at the OK Coral “: mysticbumwipe vs. IDF Commando

You know the song:

Freedom came my way one day

And I started out of town, yeah!

All of a sudden I saw sheriff John Brown

Aiming to shoot me down,

So I shot - I shot - I shot him down and I say:

If I am guilty I will pay.

Reflexes had got the better of me

And what is to be must be:

Every day the bucket a-go a well,

One day the bottom a-go drop out,

One day the bottom a-go drop out.

The way I see it, there could be a “Gaza first” solution…. It's just that it seems that Egypt would not like to annex Gaza, would not like to have Palestinians on their hands……

Perhaps, something for you if not this


Then this?

16:16 June 6, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
Dear reckoning. ask any history buff with half a brain cell WHY rockets have been launched against Israeli civilians over the past several years.

I don't condone the rocket attacks. I condemn them. They are in my opinion immoral and counter-productive.

But here is the thing, I don't see any of you Zionist supporters (who keep bringing them up as some kind of street-gang justification for Israel's lawlessness) showing even an iota of any awareness of the reason behind them.

And trying to smear the flotilla aid activists as naive terrorist sympathisers is not going to work. They are heroes who care more for the comfort and safety of an oppressed people than they do for their own comfort and safety. We should all be glad there are such people and be proud of them.
17:42 June 6, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg

The fallout is getting more extensive by the hour. Check out JP's Breaking News: the Revolutionary Mullahs want to provide a naval escort for future Flotillas... and as for those who may be in love, the Pharaoh of Egypt now says no :



As for me I intend to enjoy the rest of the National Day, far away from the quarrelsome Gaza Flotilla folks.
18:41 June 6, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
Have a nice National Day, Cornelius. :-).

Just be thankful for the fact that you don't have to go through any checkpoints to do so, nor wait at them should you or your loved ones need to go to a hospital, and that you have access to clean water, and that you can buy whatever foodstuffs you need, without them having to be smuggled through dangerous tunnels from Norway, and that your people's children are not malnourished and traumatised by the huge and powerful and sophisticated military presence with daily humiliations and intimidations and shootings from our neighbours here in Scandinavia.

Swedish Gaza activists, I salute you for your caring, for your compassion and for your active commitment to mercy and generosity. I respect you so much for your solidarity with those less fortunate than us and for giving your time and resources to help others less well off than us. Respect! Respect! You are the salt of the earth.. May we have more like you. I salute you.

You have succeeded in your mission. You highlighted the cruel, illegal and counter-productive Israeli blockade of Gaza. Well done.
18:45 June 6, 2010 by goodbyeammar
I feel pity for those half-literates who think that this is a good article because the writer forgets (perhaps deliberately) that this is not merely conflict between two nations. It is a story of occupation and aggression.

-Since Israel is the occupier, the international law does not give it a right to self-defense. Contrary to that, it is the Palestinians who have a right to self-defense and resist the occupation. That is something guaranteed by Geneva Convention.

-The writer uses misleading words like (jihad). Well, call it whatever you want, but fighting the terrorist Israeli occupation of Palestine is legitimate and a moral act. That means, it is Israel is the extremist and terrorist since it is an occupying power. For Hamas, it is neither terrorist nor extremist because it practices its moral right to resist the occupation.

-when the writer says the peace activists might have responded violently, he also one again mislead the readers. Israel has no right whatsoever to storm the ship because the ship was in the international water. So even if the peace activists reacted violently, that is a pure case of self-defense. It is the terrorist Israeli soldiers who step in the ship not the vice versa, so any reaction against the soldiers is justified.
19:26 June 6, 2010 by farnoxo
Does all this sound familiar? asks the author. Yes, sadly, it does. It sounds exactly like the rhetoric used by the apartheid government in South Africa (where I grew up in the 70's and 80's) to justify aggressive (often by brutal proxies like RENAMO in Mozambique) actions in neighbouring countries. Having spent most of my young life decoding the propaganda of a government that tried to convince me that, as a white South African, I had to defend my country against the "black danger" - a danger that generically covered everyone with a dark skin. The defensive rhetoric emanating from Israel sounds remarkably similiar.

When will the world realise that, once the filtering effect of a remarkably vociferous Zionist lobby is removed from the Western press, Israel today is very, very similiar to the apartheid South Africa of the 80's. The siege mentality, the "us versus them" rhetoric, the enforced racial segregation, the bizarre "homelands" for the minorities - it is something I have heard many times before.

I think it is no co-incidence that during the height of apartheid, one of the few countries that would covertly support the South African apartheid govt. was Israel - even to the extent of supplying the apartheid regime vital materials for their nuclear programme. Read here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/23/israel-apartheid-south-africa-nuclear-warheads) for more.

It takes one to behave like one!
19:51 June 6, 2010 by goodbyeammar
yes, it is very true that the neighboring arab nations hate israel but that because israel is not a normal state. it was established at palestinian land, and it destroys 531 villages and uprooted palestinians.

after that, it occupies the rest of palestine, south lebanon, and part of syria.

so then how can the middle east loves israel?

of course it is normal to hate an occupying state that massacres palestinians on daily basis and practices state-terrorism.

everyone hates the nazi because of their brutality and because of their occupation of european nations.

i do hate the illegal state of israel for the same reason.
20:38 June 6, 2010 by Hagrid
farnoxo, your comparison is completely ludicrous for several reasons.

First, the Jews who fled to Israel after WWII, had nowhere to turn to, since everybody wanted them dead. Israel was their only option. The white occupiers in South Africa, in contrast, were Dutch, and thus they already HAD a safe homeland to return to.

Second, the Dutch settlers went to South Africa for colonialist purpose only, to loot the natural treasures of this beautiful country. The Jews who came for Israel, in contrast, did so for a much more justified reason - to simply find refuge, and certainly they had nothing to loot there... Israel of 1948 was barren, mostly desert, and malaria-stricken. It is actually the Jews that made this country flourish, and made it more habitable for its Jewish and Arab populations.

Third, prior to 1948 there actually was a major Jewish settlement in Israel. Many of the cities and regions over there had clear roots of historic Jewish settlement - for example Jerusalem, Tiberias, Hebron, and many other towns. In South Africa, in contrast - the whites had absolutely zero history.

Fourth, the Jews have accepted a "division plan" for the land outlined by the UN, where half of Israel would be Jewish and the other half would be Arab. The Arabs rejected this offer, and chose to wage war on the Jews. In South Africa, in contrast - the whites never tried to make any arrangement or compromises or any other consideration for the black population.

Fifth, Israel is about 1/50 the size of South Africa!

Sixth, the blacks in South Africa have never protested their occupation by sending suicide bombers, and fired rockets in order to kill white civilians.

Seventh, Israel has equality for all its citizens. Arab citizens of Israel, like Jews, may vote, get elected, go anywhere they please, marry anyone they choose, study in universities, and even say the most un-patriotic and treacherous things, even on the podium of the parliament. South Africa, absolutely none of that was possible for blacks.

Eighth, none of the Arab-Israeli citizens wishes to become part of the future Palestinian state - they'd rather stay under Israeli rule. Moreover, thousands of African migrants and other foreign workers try to infiltrate Israel annually - I guess the so-called "Apartheid" over there is not so bad?
21:08 June 6, 2010 by pintoflex
Well said Hagrid
21:11 June 6, 2010 by owldog
Hamas waging a "holy war" NONSENSE!

It is Israel which remains an ethnic state and has had to wage an unholy war against those who don't accept the Zionist 20th century campaign of misinformation historiography - to cleanse the region of most of its indigenous peoples, many of whom may have ancient lineage to the 12 tribes of Israel as well.

The last "Holy War" left hundreds of civilians and children dead, and thousands permanently wounded in Gaza. Their crime? Freely voting for Hamas, in lieu of the corrupt Fateh regime.

Who is the terrorist in this scenario?
21:37 June 6, 2010 by goodbyeammar
the person who calls himself Hagrid: Don't lie.

if the jews had no option, that does not mean they should go to another country and kill people there and steal thier land

It is like you are saying that Palestinians can occupy Sweden, and kill people here since they have no option. This is not only nonsense. This is stupid!

Yes it is true the European jews accepted the division plan and Palestinians rejected it but that is understandable. How come you think that anyone can accept the division of his country? Would Swedes accept to divide their country: one for Palestinians (75 % of the land) and one for Swedes (25 % of the land)?!!!

You are saying that palestine has many historical jews places. This is another lie. There is not even a single jews building in palestine. go to Jerusalem, go to jaffa, go to Haifa..what will you see there? Only old Islamic and Arabic buildings….the old city of jerusalm is the eastern part of it which is full of ancient Arabic buildings. Israel is demolishing theses buildings every day.
21:56 June 6, 2010 by owldog
from "Palestine Inside Out" by Saree Makdisi:


Proportion of Israeli population that is Palestinian: 20%

Number of child-care centers in Israel for children aged 0-3: 1,600

Number of those in Palestinian towns: 25

Number of Israeli children age 0-3 who attend state-subsidized day care: 80,000

Number of whom are Palestinian: 4,200

percentage of Jewish Israeli children age 3 with access to state-subsidized kindergarten: 100%

Percentage of Palestinian children age 3 with access to state subsidized Kindergarten: 66%

Israel's annual investment per Jewish student age 5-15: $428

Israel's annual investment per non-Jewish student age 5-15: $128

Number of Israeli communities granted the highest priority status for education in 2007: 553

Number of those that were Palestinian: 4

Number of art schools for Jewish students in Israel: 25

Number for non-Jewish (i.e.: Palestinian) students: 0

Percentage of Jewish students in Israel who make it to high school: 85%

Percentage of non-Jewish (i.e.: Palestinian) students who make it to high school: 61%

Percentage of Jewish applicants to university in Israel who are rejected: 16

Percentage of non-Jewish applicants to university in Israel who are rejected: 45

Percentage of undergraduates in Israel who are Palestinian: 10

Percentage of doctoral students in Israel who are Palestinians: 3

Percentage of university lecturers in Israel who are Palestinian: 1

Numbers of university lecturers in Israel who are Palestinian women: 1

There are two different administrative and legal structures in place in the occupied territories: Jewish settlers are subject to Israeli CIVIL law, whereas the native Palestinians are subject to Israeli MILITARY law. Such forms of legalized discrimination are not restricted to the occupied territories; they are built directly into the political and institutional frameworks of Israel itself....

Source: "Palestine Inside Out" by Saree Makdisi, p. 143, 150-151

Hagrid, Your post is full of more lies and false propaganda like the lies of white Supremacists in the Southern USA, (from the 19th century to the civil rights movements of the 1960s.

The Zionists in Israel didn't leave the holocaust behind in Germany and Poland. They brought the hate of it with them to Palestine-Israel, and dump all that hatred of Nazis for the people who lived there for centuries.

Israel is neurotic State that is a not a de facto democracy, and has always tried to cleanse the land of most of the indigenous non-Jewish people there.

The two state solution is dead in the water. They only permanent solution for Israel Gaza, and the West Bank, is one united modern American-style democracy for all its inhabitants, as well as the occupied territory inhabitants. Israel needs to be a 21st century democracy, not a 20th century ethnic State.
23:27 June 6, 2010 by Hagrid
To the person calling himself goodbyeammar,

First, I take it that since neither you nor anyone else could not dispute my complete and utter rebuttal of farnoxo's silly comparison between Israel and South Africa, that you concede this point completely. Not that I expected otherwise, frankly.

Now, to your arguments. Here you too, engage in a silly comparison. The Palestinians have no roots in Sweden whatsoever. Whereas the roots of the Jewish people in Israel are abundant, and not only in the bible. Have you actually been to Israel, that you so confidently assert that "there is not even a single jews building in palestine"??? Well I have, and I saw. For your information, in Israel, there are countless archeological excavations of synagogues, Jewish graves, buildings, etc., as well as plenty of artifacts such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, which attest for the continued Jewish presence in the area. The are many documented stories attesting the struggle between the Jewish inhabitants, and the Greek and Romans who occupied the area. Have you heard the story of Masada? Have you heard of Herod's relation to the Jews? Have you heard of the mutiny of Bar Kochva? And where was the Jew Jesus born? As for buildings - many of the buildings in Jerusalem, including the entire Jewish Quarter, are Jewish by origin. So is the tomb in Hebron, and many tombs of great rabbi's in the galilee. So are the towns of Safed, Tiberias, Bet Shean, and others. Jews are also documented living in this land more recently, for example in Mark Twain's story of his odyssey to the holy land. Many towns like Rehovot, Petah Tikva and Rishon LeZion were founded during the late 1800s. Even the relatively modern Tel Aviv was founded as early as 1909. Many other places historically built by Jews, were either destroyed or taken by the migrant Arabs who moved to the area a few centuries ago (who call themselves "Palestinians" since the Arab League summit of 1964), in place of the Jews who were scattered to the diaspora, following the Roman occupation. So, the Jewish connection to Israel is undeniable. This is not some Zionist manifest, but general knowledge. I'm no historian, but I could easily direct you to hundreds of books that attest for this.

My advice for you - if you want to argue on behalf of the Palestinians, do not try going this route of denying the Jewish history of Israel, as you are easily proven wrong here. Maybe try some other argument.

And by the way. According to your logic, shouldn't you be much more angry at the Americans for stealing Indian land, 400 times the size of Israel? Or how about the Turkish theft of Northern Cyprus? Or Kurdistan for that matter.
23:45 June 6, 2010 by Garry Jones
All this talk of "illegal to attack in international waters takes ignorance to new heights. It appears no one in Sweden knows about the "San Remo Manual" governing "Armed Conflicts at Sea" and in particular paragraph 67A which states that a country MAY board a vessel in international waters if it is believed on reasonable grounds to be breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop.


Compare: During the Argentine heinous attack on British Territory in 1982 we imposed a 200 nautical mile blockade around our beloved Falklands. The Argentine Navy cruiser Belgrano was outside this zone when it was sunk by our boys on the Conqueror. Result: Hector Bonzo, captain of the Belgrano, testified that the attack was legitimate as did the Argentine government in 1994.

However, I feel we don't know enough yet about this incident as it appears we are being told two different versions by two different sides. Its not so much as what we are told as who we are told by. My guess is that people who already supported Israel have believed the Israeli version and people that were already anti Israeli have chose to believe the other version.

Even if this comes close, I don't think I have seen a completey unbiased version in which one is told the facts and allowed to judge for onesself. The omitness of even a mention of the applicable San Remo Manual forces me to treat every Swedish report with contempt. If they are leaving out perhaps the most important fact then what else aren't they telling me?
02:27 June 7, 2010 by Mak81
I guess history is repeating itself this pictures speak louder than words

02:40 June 7, 2010 by wisdoms
How Israel is spreading wrong information, how they are making people fool, even there on people...

http://www. youtube .com /watch?v=tfoFQcRcJJ8
03:13 June 7, 2010 by owldog
Segregation by the Numbers

Percentage of Palestinian population of Israel living in poverty: 48%

Percentage of Jewish population of Israel living in poverty: 15%

Average Palestinian family income in Israel as percentage of average Jewish income: 57%

Percentage of state investment devoted to Jewish areas: 90%

Number of localities inside Israel granted priority development status: 429

Number of those that are Palestinian: 4

Number of towns in Israel with unemployment rates higher than 10%: 32

Number of those that are Palestinian: 25

Ratio of state funding per capita for Jewish vs. Palestinian towns: 159 : 100

Infant mortality rate among Palestinians in Israel: 8.4 per thousand

Infant mortality rate among Jews in Israel: 3.6 per thousand

Number of religious sites in Israel granted state protection and funding: 135

Number of those that are not Jewish: 0

For a Palestinian living under Israeli rule, there's a huge difference between being classified as a Jerusalem resident and being classified as a West Banker, a Gazan, or a citizen of the state (and, similarly, among West Bankers themselves there are major differences among residents of the so-called seam zone, residents of the Jordan Valley, residents of Nablus: each further subdivided exterior space come with its own peculiar forms of interior restriction). Jerusalem residency doesn't carry the benefits of Israeli citizenship such as those enjoyed (to a limited extent) by Palestinian citizens of Israel, for example. But his Jerusalem identity card allows a Jerusalem Palestinian a degree of freedom of movement that a West Banker or Gazan could only dream of. So for a Palestinian, a Jerusalem identity card offers a kind of middle ground between the second-class citizenship of the Palestinian-Israeli and the restricted life of the West Banker, or the abject life of the Gazan.

It is however, the Israelis, not the Palestinians, who decide what identity is conferred on which Palestinian, and they make the decision on the basis of criteria that have nothing to do with the "inside" life fo the individual person of family in question, but rather according to the division of "outsides" on the basis of Israel's own political and territorial claims and desires. Under these circumstances, family life, intimately personal spaces, the nature (and the very existence) of the family home, and even personal identity - who one is, where one can go, where one can live and work - have all become politically charged as the result of a state policy founded on the ultimate ideological distinction in Israel, which is, by definition, an intimitely personal one: namely, the distinction between someone who happens to be Jewish and someone who does not.

source: "Palestine Inside Out" by Saree Makdisi, p.101-2
07:59 June 7, 2010 by Annaya
Mbumwipe, Rachel Corrie's mother stated in an interview on March 16, 2010 that Rachel was protecting a house lived in by two brothers, one an accountant and the other a pharmacist and their five children. What doctor? And if the house was owned by a doctor, what difference would that have made?

The Corrie's sued the Caterpillar Corp. and lost. Now they have sued Israel. I guess the parents of the "human shield" want some money. What do you think?

I will tell you that the interest of the American people in this case is nil, nada, zilch.

If you raise an idiot..........suffer the result.
08:07 June 7, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
Well done owldog for exposing the pro-zionist propaganda and Israeli misinformation with the ACTUAL facts. Thanks.

To Garry Jones (#82) the "San Remo Manual" applies to countries at war.

Had Israel declared itself at war with Turkey prior to its attack on the Flotilla??

I think you will find it had not.

So the attack BY Israel on a Turkish ship in International waters was an 'act of war'. One which Nato countries are obliged to respond to as Turkey (and NOT Israel) is a NATO member state.

You guys are just digging yourselves in a deeper and deeper hole of guilt.

"the San Remo Manual does not apply to the conflict between Israel and the Palestinian groups in Gaza. It only applies to wars between states, and Gaza is not a state.

But even if the San Remo Manual applied to the Israel-Palestinian conflict, there are a number of reasons to believe it does not apply to this particular attack. For one, the "blockade" these ships were breaching is itself unlawful, because it constitutes collective punishment of Gaza's civilian population in violation of article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, and the blockade is in violation of Paragraph 102 of the San Remo Manual itself that prohibits the establishment of a blockade if "the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.".

There are other reasons for why this attack violates the San Remo manual if it applied to the conflict. For example, Paragraph 47 (Section III) prohibits attacks on "vessels engaged in humanitarian missions, including vessels carrying supplies indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, and vessels engaged in relief actions and rescue operations", even if such vessels are "enemy vessels".

Another Example is Paragraph 46 (Section II) where an attack must be "cancelled or suspended as soon as it becomes apparent that the collateral casualties or damage would be excessive".

It is obvious that whomever is citing Paragraph 67 of the San Remo Manual is cherry picking to deceive public opinion and justify the Israeli massacre."
10:04 June 7, 2010 by Annaya
You think NATO will go after Israel? Dream on.....

You think Turkey will become a member of the E.U......dream on.........
11:23 June 7, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
Annaya, don't you have any feelings of kindness or compassion for suffering peoples? Are you aware that twenty-eight Turkish children will never again see their fathers as a result of the quite unnecessary and counter-productive lethal Israeli attack on the Freedom Flotilla aid convoy.

Can you not set aside your feelings of hatred and lack of compassion

and feel a bit how that must be for those children.

All this because your beloved Israel won't let medicines, toys, wheelchairs and other aid in to Gaza. You zionist supporters should all feel ashamed.

That you don't and instead write posts attempting to portray Israel as the victim or write replies deflecting from criticism by changing the subject, demonstrates that it is you who appear to be in a dream world.
12:32 June 7, 2010 by flintis
@ mysticbumwipe

don't you have any feelings of kindness or compassion for suffering peoples? Are you aware how many Kurdish families will never see the light of day/ their fathers/mothers/aunts/uncles etc because of the Turkish goverment?

#All this because your beloved Israel won't let medicines, toys, wheelchairs and other aid in to Gaza# HAMAS refused entry to 10 lorries carrying aid from the convoy. Does that tell you anything??
12:46 June 7, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
To David Stavrou.

"Surely Sweden could do better than the Mavi Marmara..." asked Stavrou at the end of his article.

But isn't that ignoring the clear reality that now ALL media outlets around the world are talking about this 'blockade' issue.

And governments are at last calling for an end - after more than three years - of this illegal Israeli embargo and it's cruel collective punishment of the people of Gaza.

How much better do you want it, David?

I myself think that's an excellent and extremely positive development from the actions of the Flotilla aid activists..

To Flintis: obfuscation and pointing to others alleged crimes DOES NOT excuse Israeli crimes.

(Do you really think that is a worthy justification for murder?)

It just tacitly admits them but in a dishonest and rather infantile way, i.e "but he's doing it too."

Shame on you.
14:03 June 7, 2010 by flintis
@ mysticbumwipe,

You single out Israel for your vehement attack, why are they so different from all the other countries carrying out atrocities, I mentioned Turkey & the Kurds, could so easily be Iran, Sudan, Zimbawe etc, who's crimes against humanity far outway the crimes Israel committed. The only difference is your obvious hatred of Israel.

Doesn't change the fact that the "flotilla" antagonists acheived nothing but their own notoriety
14:23 June 7, 2010 by goodbyeammar
To the so-called Hagrid

Indeed i have been in Palestine. I come from Palestine. what Jews people have in palestine? nothing. Huh archeology? Buildings are the witnesses of any rooted civilizations. You can never see any building in Palestine that represents the jews history in palestine. all the israeli buildings are new, the oldest was built some decades ago, exactly when the early European jews started to migrate to palestine. on the other hand, when you visit the old towns of jaffa, Haifa, acre, jerusalm, Nablus, etc., you will see very old Arabic buildings which were built hundreds years ago.

You make me laugh when you use the bible to connect jews to palestine. now u r using the religion here which is a proof that it is the Israelis who are extremists and fanatics because you are using religion in politics. The bible tells you to occupies palestine, the bible tells you to steal the land, and demolish houses and kill Palestinians….i don't believe in the bible. I don't believe that god tells to steal other's land.

Judaism is not a nation. It is a religion. So jews cannot have any roots to palestine. indeed palestine is a holly place for jews, Christians, and muslims, but palestine belong to Palestinians. it does not belong to the pakistiani muslims or to the Swedish or polish jew. Jews belong to different nations, some are white, blond, colored.

The comparison with south Africa is not silly. Everyone knows that israel is an apartheid state. It builds a wall that segregates people according to their religion and their ethnical background. The very concept of the israeli state is racist. According to the israeli law, any jew can immigrate to palestine and lives there. This is very racist because it is like saying that, we want Sweden for only white people! the jews immigration to palestine is not only racist, but it is also criminal because israel occupies palestine land, and demolish Palestinian houses in order to leave a place for the newcomer jews.
14:24 June 7, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
Flintis. No, no, no. You haven't understood properly.

Any country that MY country supports and who is a close ally of my county and who commits crimes is worthy of condemnation.

Especially so ,when many, many people in my own country attempt to justify its illegal and cruel actions due to family or race connections.

That is precisely why many of us singled out South Africa in the eighties for special criticism for that very same reason.

Israel is considered such a pariah in the world NOT because we "hate" the country or its people but because of its actions.

And it is only just and morally right that we criticise a country that behaves so lawlessly and lethally when it would not and could not exist were it not for the actions and support of us Western people and our powers.

WE are complicit.

Britain especially must accept much of the responsibility for the situation. And I am British/Swedish.
15:19 June 7, 2010 by Avidror
Lynched Israeli soldiers:


Flotilla's crew answered Israel's demands with the words "Go back to Auschwitz."

Why has great novelist Henning Mankell stated that Israeli soldiers shot at sleeping people, when he was aboard the Sofia and the shootings happened aboard the Mavi Marmara?
15:21 June 7, 2010 by Roy E
Turkey's role in this is interesting.

it seems the spirit of the Armenian Genocide is alive and well with the Turks, and this manufactured provocation is an attempt to establish a pretext for another bloodlust redux.

The Turks must be tired of all the other bad actors grabbing the headlines - Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran... and they want in on perpetrating some the evil themselves.
15:36 June 7, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
Zionist lies and propaganda I'm afraid. And they've been caught out and admitted it. But they know that once this stuff is out there it takes on a life of its own and can't be eradicated. So yet again deliberate misinformation to make out that they are the good guys and to show that every aid activist was a racist terrorist.

Its quite evil behaviour on top of hateful evil behaviour.


Israelis killed people. Israelis have made 28 Turkish kids live lives without a Dad. Just to stop medicine, toys, wheelchairs, etc getting to people? :-o


What are you thinking?

Where is your humanity?

And yet you people accept and spread these slanderous lies. Have you no conscience, no shame?
16:02 June 7, 2010 by flintis
@ mysticbumwipe

Britain is NOT a country it's a Kingdom (hence the name the United Kingdom of Great Britain & N Ireland) comprising of the following countries England, Scotland, Wales & N Ireland.

I do not just condemn aa you write # Any country that MY country supports and who is a close ally of my county and who commits crimes is worthy of condemnation#

ALL countries that commit atrocities should be condemned, and singling out SA in the 80's, you were a bit behind the times, SA was "singled out" along with Rhodesia in the late 60's. Don't here you shouting about Zimbabwe, Sudan, Ivory Coast, Somalia, Irak, Iran, Uzbekistan, TURKEY, China, N Korea the list goes on, just admit it your anti-jewish.
16:49 June 7, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
"What is hateful to you, do not YOU do to your fellow:

this is the whole Law and the rest is commentary;

go and study it further!"

Rabbi Hillel.

Dear Flintis. This is an advice for how to regulate OUR own behaviour. Not anyone elses.

Einstein, Finkelstein, Chomsky, Naomi Klein, Ilain Pappe. These are all great heroes of mine. They also all just happen to be jewish.

They are heroes to me because they are concerned for the well-being of others

and are prepared to put their own well-being on the line to stand up against an injustice.

I think we should all be proud of these people.

P.S. I DID single out South Africa in the 1980's. Honestly. :-)

P.P.S. England and Sweden ARE my countries and both are countries as well as Kingdoms.

P.P.S. Avidor: No-one on the flotilla shouted anything about going back to Auschwitz. Do you acknowledge that yet? :-)


We will all be dead in seventy years or so.

Lets live together to make a happier world for everybody. EVERYBODY!

It is the Palestinians who need the most help in that endeavour right now. They are starving, without unemployment, without adequate sewerage, or infrastructure without housing or clean water and living off handouts. Israel is DELIBERATELY doing that to them against all international law. And we think it is because Israel wants their land. C'mon, bro'. Face the facts, man.
17:21 June 7, 2010 by flintis
@ mysticbunwipe:

It's the ones that are not in the media you should be proud of, not the publicity seeking bigots on the front page.

P.S u were 20 yrs late with SA (lived there in the 80's for 6 months bloody dreadful)

P.P.S u did'nt mention England.

P.P.P.S the Palestinians have no Employment! ((apart from digging tunnels) could'nt help myself))

P.P.P.P.S if we are to live together in a peaceful world then you cannot single out one wrong do'er. It's got to be all or nothing.

P.P.P.P.P.S, if I last another 70 yrs I'll become a believer.
18:11 June 7, 2010 by JuliaB123
Gaza was illegally attacked during Christmas holiday, 2008.

People in Palestine has been treated as sub human.

We need to sto; this Apartheid against Palestine people.

I have been in Refugee camp, and I knew what a terrible life they have.

They were deprived from education, hospital etc.

Many people do not know this as there is not much access to Palestine land.

If you have never had a chance to visit Palestin, I would like to recommend this DVD for people who would like to know what is going on.


Solution we should work is: Israel to go back to 1967 bord line, Jerusalem to be Internation Sanction (neither Israel nor Palestine shall own Jerusalem).

And we need to understand truth and work on above mentioned solution. (influence political party etc.)
18:24 June 7, 2010 by tgolan
why not protest against Turkey , Turkey which massacured 1.6 million Arminians, occupies nothern Cyprus and oppresses the Kurds. Or hamas persicution of democrats (atha) or syrians lack of freedom, or Irans persacutaion of homosexuals and christians, Muslim pirates in somalia or Saudi arabias treatment of women, WHY are Muslims allowed freely to treat people as slaves???

lets us not lose focus on the real problem!!!
18:28 June 7, 2010 by JuliaB123
Real problem is Israel`s behavior and Apartheid against palestinian people.

Do you realize why Hammas exist? Israel must change. And must agree on 1967 bord line and Jerusalem as International sanction.

As I'm sure you've heard, less than 60 hours ago at least 9 people carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza on a six-ship flotilla were killed by the Israeli army when it attacked one of the ships. Dozens were badly injured. The ships were in international waters and had stopped overnight, expecting to continue transporting more than 10,000 tons of aid to Gaza the next morning. Most of those killed and injured were Turkish.

I am chilled knowing that I was meant to be on the Mavi Marmara boat had I not already committed to this delegation, and I wonder if I could have been as brave as the others on board. I feel a great kinship with Turkish Palestine solidarity activists with whom I worked during my years living in Ankara and although I am no nationalist, I was proud to carry a Turkish flag today.

We here in Palestine are stunned, not by Israel's immorality (Israel has committed far worse crimes), but by its arrogance. Israel assumes it can kill anyone it wants anywhere it wants with impunity. Israel is wrong. And this, like the 2008-2009 War on Gaza (Operation Cast Lead), should be a turning point in international opinion and, more importantly, international action.

For more info. please click here:

22:50 June 7, 2010 by manrush
Well, he's right. Meddling outsiders, no matter how noble their intentions, always made things worse, in the end.

He's also right to point out that this conflict is anything but black and white.
07:45 June 8, 2010 by flintis
@ JuliaB123

The real problem is not Israel, it's mans ignorance, greed, stupidity & the curse of all curses, religion. How are you proud to bear a Turkish flag?, when the Turks are committing & have committed far worse atrocities than the Israelis have.

You say your an activists, your "actively" preaching apartheid yourself.
10:19 June 8, 2010 by Annaya
White House news crone, Helen Thomas, was forced to retire over the week-end because of her anti-Jewish remarks. Crone was not used lightly.....watch her on You Tube to sees what I mean. Her Lebanese rage over the flotilla finally tripped her up. She has always been a Israeli hater but got away with it because of her carefully chosen words. She was heard to mutter as she left "I'll get you and your little dog too."

Also check out You Tube for "We Conned The World" which has been viewed approx. 2 million times.
19:13 June 8, 2010 by goodbyeammar
''the local'' is a very biased newspaper which tends to highlights the Israeli perspective all the time. I recall Aftonbladet article about israeli illegal killing palestinains and harvesting their organs. ''the local'' specified at least 4 articles attacking the newspaper publishing of the harvesting story. David Stavrou, who is a pro-israeli writer, was privileged to publish an article attacking the newspaper. The interesting thing is that after 2 months, the apartheid state of israel admitted harvesting palestinain organs.

So that means David Stavrou, was very subjective when attacking Aftonbladet. The point here is that how can we trust David Stavrou again in this article?

David Stavrou calls hamas as terrorist organization and accused it of waging holly war against israel! but everyone knows that the occupation is the terrorism, not those who fight the occupation. The international law gives people a right to resist foreign occupation of their occupation. It seems that David Stavrou thinks in a colonial way which calls any struggle against the occupation as terrorism. that is what the nazi occupiers called the french resistance and danish resistance. That was what the american called the vitnami resistance. That was the british called the american revolution.

Regarding the holly war, hamas is fighting israel because simply it is an occunpying power. That is not a holly way. that is something guranteed by the international law. It is, in fact, israel is the one that wages holly war. Israel demolishes palestinian houses and exports their lands and expel palestinians after occupying their land and then grant the land to european jews because israel thinks god promises the land of palestine to jews people. so it is israel is the one which uses religion. For hamas and palestinians, the case is the criminal occupation.

By the way, I call people like David Stavrou, as ''cultural criminals'' because they massacre the truth and brainwash people.
20:20 June 8, 2010 by saab
My message to Mr. Erdogan and his supporters on this blog:

1. Armenian genocide

2. Free Kurdistan

3. United Cyprus

And let's see how far the discussion goes.
21:00 June 8, 2010 by Hagrid

A famous maxim says that if you repeat a lie enough times, people would finally believe in it. In my two posts - regarding the silly comparison with South Africa, and the Jews' strong connection to Israel, I did not lie. I did not make anything up. I have backed up my arguments with plenty of solid facts, facts which you conveniently ignore or belittle. Then you go on and repeat the same lies ("You can never see any building in Palestine that represents the jews history in palestine") or hollow, meaningless slogans ("Everyone knows that israel is an apartheid state") or irrelevant and far-fetched comparisons ("it is like saying that, we want Sweden for only white people"), over and over again, in a lame attempt to divert people's attention from the solid arguments I provided. Your tactic of diversion is understandable, since obviously you cannot tackle my arguments head-on. This way, you hope, people would adopt your manipulative lies at the supposed truth.

You later damage your own credibility even further, when in another post you complain that "The Local highlights the Israeli perspective" regarding Aftonbladet's "organ harvesting" story. For your information, saying that Aftonbladet is a cheap tabloid which sought attention by publishing this disgusting blood libel, is not only the Israeli perspective. Rather, it is every thinking person's perspective, which was shared by many in Sweden. While some criticized Israel's reaction to the libel, nobody (except Sweden's Muslims and far-leftists) contested that this libel was bogus, and a very poor piece of journalism.

When you align yourself in the crazy fringe which actually takes this libel seriously, it says a lot about your sense of objectivity and common sense (or lack thereof), and thus your viewpoints on other topics as well, are taken in the proper perspective.
06:10 June 9, 2010 by goodbyeammar

I know you have a hard mission since you defend an occupying power which is the terrorist state of israel

a-Regarding the Aftonbladet article: you follow the same tactic the israeli supporters do , which is divert the topic to another issue. I talk about an article, and then you are talking about Swedish muslims. This is what the israeli do, make it a religious issue. we are talking about occupation, and the pro-israelis make it a religious issue. Indeed this is a fanatic argument. Now you are saying the article was a bad journalism. I am not gonna teach you here about journalism, but one thing I need to tell you which is that: after two months of the publishing, israel admitted illegal killing of Palestinians and harvesting their organs. And here is the israeli confession which was reported by the local:


b-when I compare israel with south Africa, I provide some evidences: the apartheid wall, the occupation, the israeli law about allowing only jews people from different origins to immigrate to the country. Do you think all these attitudes are not racists?! What is about the jews settlements in the Palestinian land? how does it sound for you if we say: let us build a Christian settlements in Sweden, or let us build white people settlements in Britin. Indeed this is act of racism. I did not mention the daily discriminative rules in palestine.

c-regarding the jews building in palestine. I did not lie. You could not name even a one jews building which was built thousand year ago..you cannot even name a jews building in palestine built since more than 80 years. You cannot name because simply they are absent. You did not mention any building's name. you mention stories about the jews existence in palestine from the bible. I do not believe in these biblical myths. I do not believe that god says go and occupies others land. I do not believe that god says jews are the chosen people. these are myths. Just stories. Give me name of buildings, not stories. I gave you many examples that prove the rooted Palestinian civilizations in palestine. on the other hand, all what you mentioned are just myths from the bible. Jews people have civilizations, but in their countries. Polish jews have great civilizations in palestine. german jews have a great civilization in germany. European jews do not have any civilizations in palestine because they came lately. The only civilization they made in palestine so far is the culture of occupation, destroying 531 palestinian villages and expelling Palestinians out of their country…….
07:30 June 9, 2010 by Grass
And this is the exact problem:

(Quote from Annaya)

"I am not Jewish, I am not a right wing Christian but as an

American.....I do stand for Israel!"

When are the USA going to stop trying to be the world super police and BUTT out.

Why do the Israelis need 3 billion a year from the USA? I thought Israel was a developed country with more than enough of its own exports, Hi-tech business, etc. There is nothing about Israel that needs USA hand-out, other than being "joined at the hip" with the USA.

Everywhere - Everywhere there is death, destruction, political un-rest, history proved the bloody Americans have been there before and created the problem in the first place.....
14:28 June 9, 2010 by Williamdorval
What a fairy tale article and whimsical parodies unworthy of comment.

The world just cannot stand the idea that killing jews now has a severe price tag.

Plain and simple truth.
19:02 June 9, 2010 by Hagrid

a. The Aftonbladet story was pure libel, perod. The reporter and editor themselves, admitted they had no evidence, and questioned only one side. If this isn't bad journalism, I don't know what is. Evidently most swedes do not believe it. As for the link you provided, let's read some sentences from there: "Israel has admitted its FORENSIC PATHOLOGISTS removed organs" (i.e. not for selling, but investigating the deaths), "The Israeli military confirmed that skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from ISRAELI SOLDIERS, ISRAELI CITIZENS, Palestinians and foreign workers", "there has been no evidence to back up Aftonbladet's claim that Israeli soldiers killed Palestinians for their organs". Clearly, given these sentences, this link gives you nothing.

b. Why was the wall built? Maybe because your Pali brothers could not resist the urge to go blow themselves up among Israelis, whenever they could? It's a very simple equation. no terror = no wall. The settlements were to be removed had Arafat accepted Barak's plan of giving the Palestinians 97% of the WB, but Arafat chose terror. And when Israel DID remove its settlements in Gaza, what did it get in return? 10000+ rockets? Looks like your Pali brothers need to do some serious convincing that it would be different next time. Arabs can't to immigrate to tiny Israel? Can Israeli Jews immigrate to Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar or Lebanon?

Anyway, You probably wouldn't know "Apartheid" if it hit you in the head... Everything you mentioned has absolutely nothing to do with Apartheid , and nothing like South Africa. I have already proven this earlier with 8 solid facts, I don't need to repeat myself.

c. Again this silly lie? I have already listed many places in Israel where old Jewish buildings and structures can be found, or were excavated. I have also mentioned that many Jewish buildings were destroyed by the Arabs migrants ("Palestinians"). I don't feel like repeating myself.

This is the last time l write here, because I'm getting tired of addressing the obvious. See you in another discussion..
23:05 June 9, 2010 by Annaya
My son watched You Tube's "We Con the World" with me and asked if I saw the

"peace activist" stab the Israeli soldier in the back. He played it back and showed me. Yes "Grass" I think even as an American I can express my opinion on Gaza and Israel and the "peace activist" and "human shields". It is called freedom of speech. If I had anything to do with foreign aid goes it certainly would not to Hamas. Obama promised today that he would give another 400 million to Abbas, even though the article said, he didn't know if Abbas could control the money. Let's see, that is in addition to the 1 billion the U. S. gives Gaza each year.

Mbumwipe, it is not up to me to feel sorry for the twenty eight Turkish children that will never see their fathers again. That was their father's job....to live and protect their children. Their choice was to arm themselves, get on a boat that offered violent resistance to soldiers repelling down to inspect the cargo.

It has also been reported that the drugs the ship carried are outdated. What is the story with that? Just to say it was on a medical relief mission? Hamas didn't want the supplies very badly as they have refused to let them into Gaza.
23:08 June 9, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
All that's coming up in this thread is some archaeology of the deep roots to the conflict

Since there are contending versions as to the sequence of events and the exactly how and what happened on board the “Mavi Marmara”who/What can clear the fog that today masks some of the uncertainties?

In the Svenska Dagbladet editorial of June 2nd, 2010, Claes Arvidsson tells us that in 2004 Zvi Mazel, Israel's former ambassador to Sweden dismantled Freedom Flotilla's Dror Feiler's work of art which he says “could have been interpreted to be a celebration of the Palestinian suicide-bomber who a year earlier had murdered twenty one Israelis in Haifa”


He (Arvidsson) continues, “In "After Ship to Gaza", Mazel writes in the Jerusalem Post of 1/6/2010 that Israel is going to have a tough time getting her own version through ...”


Mysticbumwipe agrees that the problem is this:


Mysticbumwipe talking:

” ask any history buff with half a brain cell WHY rockets have been launched against Israeli civilians over the past several years.

I don't condone the rocket attacks. I condemn them. They are in my opinion immoral and counter-productive.”

Today, there is not a single “Jewish settler” in Gaza. Ariel Sharon saw to that. Despite tremendous opposition and resistance from the settlers, Ariel Sharon removed each and every Jew from Gaza. What more should be done?

The best way to achieve peace in Gaza is for Hamas to abandon the idea of stockpiling weapons and to renounce terrorism as the way to peace. Once upon a time, at its inception/ founding, HAMAS was doing a good job, social work, building schools, clinics, maternity clinics, helping the needy etc. winning the hearts and minds of many...

The immediate work of the future is now: along with reconstruction, it's a matter of state-building, building democratic institutions.
02:16 June 10, 2010 by wikblom

The "Americans" saved your ass and your family's more than once. But we don't expect gratitude because we never get credit for all the beneficial things we do for the world, including but not limited to the pax americana.

Moreover, Israel has the right to defend it's citizens just as America does.

If the Arabs laid down their arms there would be peace in the Middle East. If Israel laid down it's arms there would be no more Israel.

I am a non Jewish Swedish American and my great-great grandfather was killed fighting in the Swedish Army against Napoleon at a time when the Swedes fought for what they believed in rather than standing around with their index finger up the rectum.
11:15 June 10, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere” said the Rev. Dr.Martin Luther king.

There's the Blockade against Cuba simply because Cuba ( then an arm of the USSR ) posed a serious military threat to the USA and we have yet to witness Gardell, Mankell & Feiler's Freedom flotilla or indeed a Revolutionary Iranian vessel under heavy Iranian naval escort, attempting to break that embargo without encountering serious military consequences inside or outside the territorial USA – Cuba international waters. I know what Pierre Schori and the Old Social Democrat school think about Cuba and it would be interesting to know what the various Swedish party leaders think about the Cuba Embargo, today.


Am I remotely suggesting that the blockade of Gaza can be compared to the Cuban Blockade? Certainly not, but there is a feature that they have in common, except that unlike Cuba from which no missiles have rained down on the USA, the rockets that are still being fired from Gaza have caused many deaths in Israel and continue to exercise psychological terror on the men, women and children of Sderot who only get a twenty seconds warning from the sirens within which to run helter-skelter for cover.


This is a mitigating factor:


It's beyond comprehension that HAMAS will not allow even the RED CROSS to visit GILAD SHALIT. Where is the Rahman and the Rahim for their own people of Gaza? In my view, Hamas in power and in charge of the lives under their jurisdiction, has to be more pragmatic and like the Israelis pray more for PECE and less for “ victory”

Should mysticbumwipe want to take up Israel - South Africa ( at any time or in any dimension – and also the question of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails, he's welcome to do so.
12:47 June 10, 2010 by Annaya
John F. Kennedy didn't care who objected to the Blockade of Cuba. He had decided that Russian missiles pointed at the U. S., ninety miles off shore would not stand. Israel doesn't have the luxury of having 90 miles!

In 1999, Al Qaeda hatched a plan with the terrorist in Indonesia to plant bombs on American planes coming across the Pacific. The C.I.A. interrogated the plotters without success. Finally, one agent being tired, said, "To hell with it, turn them over to Mossad." The terrorist not wanting to be turned over to Mossad gave it up and we prevented mass murder over the Pacific Ocean. Say what you want, we will have free information passed by Mossad and the C.I.A. and we are safer for it.

Someone asked why the U. S. gave Israel 3 billion dollars a year....simple it is for military hardware.

Wonder if they have our lasers or little robots yet?

After 9/11, is it any wonder that the average American does not trust anyone in the Mideast except Israel?
15:09 June 10, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
Get this back in perspective.

On May 31st Israeli commandos illegally boarded a many ships in international waters and KILLED at least nine volunteers attempting to take humanitarian supplies to Gaza.

According to eyewitness reports and forensic evidence, many of these aid volunteers were shot at close range, including a 19-year-old American citizen killed by four bullets to the head and one to the chest fired from 18 inches away.

Footage of the event has amazingly surfaced on Youtube despite Israel confiscating/stealing all the cameras and thus film.

You can see from it that this was NOT self-defence. He's injured, on the floor and undergoing a nonchalant kicking BEFORE being shot four times in the head and once in the chest.

Israel immediately imprisoned eyewitnesses and hundreds of other aid participants, confiscated their cameras, laptops, and other possessions, and prevented them from speaking to the press for days. Among the incarcerated were decorated U.S. veterans and an 80-year-old former ambassador who had been deputy director of Reagan's Cabinet Task Force on Terrorism.

When they finally emerged and were able to tell their stories, many described horrific scenes of Israeli commandos shooting people in the head, of those tending the injured being shot in the stomach, of people bleeding to death while flotilla participants waved white flags and pled for help.

They also described being beaten brutally by Israeli forces, again and again - including those on ships that, in the U.S. media's judgment, experienced "no violence." A 64-year-old piano tuner from California, Paul Larudee, described hundreds of Israeli commandos boarding his ship. When he refused to cooperate with them, soldiers then beat him numerous times both on board the ship and after he was imprisoned on land.

Eventually he was taken by ambulance to an Israeli hospital. He wasn't treated, however, and Larudee believes he was taken there because Israel didn't want media to see his black eye, pronated joints, bruised jaw and body contusions.

Marine veteran Ken O'Keefe described similar beatings while in Israeli custody. In his case, the public was able to see his bloodied, battered face in video clips and still images - but only on the Internet, since American mainstream media failed to report on his press conference or to publish the many still photos of his injuries.
23:03 June 10, 2010 by Annaya
Ken O'Keefe hasn't been an American since 2001, when he gave up his citizenship. He was traveling under an Irish passport. The teardrop tattoo under his eye has meaning in an American prison.

Larudee has been put on a watch list as a terrorist sympathizer. The newspaper reports from his hometown indicate that no one believes his story except the part where an IDF soldier saved him from drowning.

The 19 year old was a Turkish American. I read that he also had a Turkish passport. I imagine all of the U.S. activist were on a watch list, if not, they are now.

There are 310 million of us, so we have our bad apples too.
23:27 June 10, 2010 by jazzIIIlove
one of the best articles so far in thelocal.se
00:40 June 11, 2010 by catsuzuma
Saab as the car Saab? I don't think I ever seen a black man in a Saab, anyway. Numb you can state the facts until you are blue in the face, they won't listen to reason. However a child will tell you what looks right to him or her right away. 161 to 2 is pretty clear to me.
00:53 June 11, 2010 by catsuzuma
I always tell people, the day Americans find themselves in a position the Palestinian people find themselves today, although is almost impossible to imagine, they will show the world a new meaning of the word terrorism.
09:55 June 11, 2010 by Sting
The article is well written but it seems the author is seriously one dimensional. It mentions that 9 humanitarians, which Israeli forces call terrorists when justifying using commandos and life bullets, didn't deserve to die, but how about the Palestinians people? Do they deserve to suffer from not only physiological starvation, but also starvation from education, hope, entertainment, and freedom.

I salute the Swedish activists, the 900 others who joined them, and those who were ruthlessly killed by Israeli soldiers. This is very meaningful and its actions such as this that differentiates us Humans from other mammals.

Israel attacked civilians, not ordinary but selfless humanitarians, with armed forces in international waters. Since we're in World Cup season, imagine security forces killing 9 British trouble-making fans (Hooligans).

Who shoots a 19 year old in the face 5 times, even if as the Israelis claim, he was attacking soldiers with furniture?

If Hamas, elected by Palestinians, or Hezbollah, with members in Lebanese parliament, are terrorist groups because they attacked Israelis, then Israel is a terrorist state, for killing tens of thousands of civilians from at least 10 countries in its 6 decades of existence.

This is not a "badly handled" incident at least, it is a crime against humanity at least, and state-terrorism against civilians of 32 countries, including Sweden, at most!
13:09 June 11, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
We in Europe have a big role to play to solve the current stalemate in Palestine.

And that is because the EU is Israel's biggest trade partner AND the largest provider of development assistance to Palestine.

Can anybody else see what is wrong with that picture.

Palestinians ONLY need that aid because we ALLOW Israel to effect this illegal and cruel blockade. WE give aid to help Palestinians build an infrastructure separate from Israel's and allow Israel to almost completely destroy it (Operation Cast Lead) .

We are effectively helping the Israeli's starve the Palestinians and then WE give the Palestinians hand-outs to fend off starvation. :-o

So something is seriously awry here and the EU is seriously complicit.

What a dereliction of rationality and common-sense.

In 1980, the EU heads of government and foreign ministers agreed the Venice declaration, which obliged them to play "a special role ... to work in a more concrete way towards peace".

They spelled out their commitment to "justice for all the peoples, which implies recognition of the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people". They denounced settlement activity as illegal, refused to accept any unilateral initiative to change the status of Jerusalem, urged a just solution to the problem of Palestinian refugees, and supported a comprehensive peace settlement sustained by a decision of the UN security council.

We in Europe should call for an immediate end to the Gaza blockade

And we have to start talking to Hamas. We cannot support democracy everywhere except in Palestine.

And anyway, without Hamas there will not be a peace settlement.
18:46 June 11, 2010 by Sting
@mysticbumwipe, many European countries, including Sweden, have already called for the illegal and inhumane end to the Israeli blockade of Gaza. In fact, even UK, otherwise extremely biased towards Israel like the US, demanded the same.

However, we all around the world can demand this and perhaps even tolerate murder of humanitarians, but Israel is backed by US governments, which are backed by the Zionist lobbies such as APAC.

Israel and US are bullies, without the unity of the free world, nothing can happen. And if today Palestinians are being starved, tomorrow it could be us!
23:37 June 11, 2010 by owldog

It is a Nation of an intellitgent, sophisticated European ethnic group, armed to the teeth with conventional and nuclear weapons and driving out the indigenous people off the land they plowed for centuries, revising the history, and starting a fascist movement based on mythological claims to the land, and mystical conviction that they do will of a pagan-like violent God.

Jews have a right to be in Israel-Palestine, but Israel does not have the right to exist as an exclusive apartheid nation of one eithnic group and expel or punish the indigenous people who lived there before them.

The two state solution is dead and is just used as a pacifier to the media/political machine, as Israel continues to pursue their unholy dream of recreating their own "pure" ethnic State from the loss of these indigenous people.

With conversions and intermarriages in Palestine and Europe over the millenia, their may be more "blood of Abraham" among the Gazans than there is among the European ethnic "Jews" that torment them.

Enough said.
06:08 June 12, 2010 by Annaya
Oh please, the Palestinians are not starving! There are approx. one half million of them. Where the heck is the money going that is sent to Gaza each year? The U.S. gives 1 Billion. I am sure other nations do too. If it lines the pockets of Hamas, whose fault is that?

The U.S. has the Atlantic Ocean on the east, the Pacific Ocean on the west, a good neighbor to the north and a weak neighbor on the south...how would we end up as the Palestinians?

Conversions and intermarriage "ain't" gonna work with Americans. In fact, several first generation Muslims have lost their faith and become citizens of the country they have chosen. And all we have to do is open up the border on the south and be flooded with Christians from Mexico, Central and South America.

I have contacted my Senators and other U.S. Senators to support Israel and to watch the YouTube video where the soldiers are beaten by the agitators.

We all know about Ed Peck, the eighty one year old nut. The U.S. has declared

Hamas and Hezbollah terrorist......old Ed doesn't think so.

Someone keeps telling us to read annainpalestine....can you say, Noam

Chomsky?? Anna's lies were removed from her site before she went on The Daley Show.

Of course, she didn't know they were false......yeah, right!

In your opinion, Americans are Bullies????? Tough S***
08:11 June 12, 2010 by owldog
"September 2005, "During the last few days, Gaza was awakened from its dreams of liberation with horrible explosions, which have shattered our skies, shaken our buildings, broken our windows, and thrown the place into panic."

Palestinians of Gaza have no protection from Israeli artillery. They have no air defenses. With Jewish settlers safely out of the way, the Israeli air force began staging mock air raids over Gaza - sending Jet fighters roaring low over densely populated neighborhoods and breaking the sound barrier in the middle of the night - an absolutely terrifying phenomenon. Dr. Eyad el-Sarraj of the Gaza Community Mental Health Programme wrote in September 2005, "During the last few days, Gaza was awakened from its dreams of liberation with horrible explosions, which have shattered our skies, shaken our buildings, broken our windows, and thrown the place into panic. "We have been 'bombed' [subjected to mock air raids and sonic booms] since Friday 23 September, day and night." Usually between 2:00-4:00 AM, between 6:30-8:00 AM when children go to school...creating fear and paralysis. Children were traumatized, having nightmares.

Despite protest from human rights organizations, the low-altitude sonic booms continued through the fall into November 2005, three every night, then started again in the summer of 2006. No one in Gaza was sleeping. The Israeli human rights organization, B'Tselem stated, "The sole purpose of these sorties is to prevent residents from sleeping, and to create an ongoing sense of fear and anxiety." Cardiac arrest increased, miscarriages were up 30-40%.

The sonic booms were just the beginning. In 2006, in response to a guerrilla attack on an Army post, during the next several months, the Israeli military operation dubbed, Summer Rains and Autumn Clouds, killed 400 Palestinians, half of whom were innocent civilians, and half of those were children. During this time, 3 Israeli soldiers, and 2 Israeli civilians were killed by Palestinian fire.


Reports soon surfaced, following an Italian investigation into mystery injuries, that the Israelis were experimenting on the population of Gaza with a new weapon, the dense inert metal explosive, or DIME, which uses a projectile comprising a carbon-fiber casing filled with tungsten powder and explosives. The tungsten powder focused an enormous blast of heat and energy within a very tight radius. Rather than metal shrapnel, the weapon used a powder. The results was an unprecedented number of amputees. Badly burned people would suddenly burst into flames, even after the burns were extinguished. Bodies seemed to have "melted" with no external wounds, but internal organs completely crushed, burnt, or crumbled in ways that do not correspond to conventional explosives.


"Palestine Inside Out" by Saree Makdisi, p.172-175
12:58 June 12, 2010 by AbeBird
Its not cost them nothing to hate Israel that's why the "peaceniks" have the courage to violate any low for helping the terrorists against law adiding state !!!!!!
13:03 June 12, 2010 by AbeBird
• Try some facts , I know it's gonna give a few of you headaches , but hey the truth is worth the pain [in some cases]

Despite the fact that Israel publicly offered to inspect and then transfer the flotilla's aid to Gaza several days prior to the incident, many opponents of Israel are now making wild accusations that humanitarian supplies are being blocked from entering Gaza.

The facts put these charges to rest – just take a look at how much aid Israel regularly delivers to Gaza, and what it means in real terms for Gazans:

• Over one million tons of humanitarian supplies were delivered by Israel to the people of Gaza in the past 18 months – that's equal to nearly one ton of aid for every man, woman and child in Gaza.

In the first quarter of 2010 alone (January-March), Israel delivered 94,500 tons of supplies to Gaza. It's very easy to miss what that actually means for the people of Gaza. The breakdown includes:

• 40,000 tons of wheat – which is equal to 53 million loaves of bread;

• 2,760 tons of rice – which equals 69 million servings;

• 1,987 tons of clothes and footwear – the equivalent weight of 3.6 million pairs of jeans; and

• 553 tons of milk powder and baby food – equivalent to over 3.1 million days of formula for an average six-month-old baby.

• The weekly average of the total supply that Israel pushes into Gaza is about 100,000 tons.

This reflects a long-term effort on the part of Israel to deliver a massive and comprehensive supply of aid to Gaza's civilians, while restricting the ability of Hamas to import missiles that have been launched at the cities of southern Israel on daily basis. In 2009 alone:

• During the Muslim holy days of Ramadan and Eid al-Adha, Israel shipped some 11,000 head of cattle into Gaza – enough to provide 8.8 million meals of beef;

• More than 3,000 tons of hypochlorite were delivered by Israel to Gaza for water purification purposes – that's 60 billion gallons of purified water; and

• Israel brought some 4,883 tons of medical equipment and medicine into Gaza – a weight equivalent to over 360,000 260-piece mobile trauma first aid kits.

Israel is hospitalizing hard medical cases of Gazans in hers hospital, including the Barzilai's Ashkelon hospital which the Hamas deliberately rocketing time and again! Even one cancer patient carried a bomb under her close while was invited to get a treatment at Beer Sheva “Soroka” hospital.

Read the full statistics and judge for yourself. Humanitarian crisis in Gaza? Not according to the facts.

Oh, and in case some of you missed it, all that desperately needed “stuff ” on the flotilla, after it was inspected by Israel, was refused by Hamas, so much for “desperately needed humanitarian aid ” …..a confrontation was what Hamas wanted and a confrontation was what they got.

• http://my.telegraph.co.uk/actuality/realde...e-jews-are-bad/

13:20 June 12, 2010 by AbeBird

Jews don't need your interpretation of who is a Jew. Your "explanation" is a mind deceiving tactics to fight Jews in other means. But you are losing your Falstinian proPALganda tactics because your weapon is lies.

Jews are not "European ethnic group" as the Palestinians are not all Arabs or Muslims. I know that Abu Mazen in his doctorate in USSR Moscow wrote the tactics now you try to sell us. In short the Jews are the ancient Jews = Judeans = Israelites = Hebrews, at that order. Now day Jews are still separated on the world although most of them sit in 2 main places - Israel Biblical land and the US. Lot of historical writing and facts tell that magnificent story. Few haters, whether they are Jews or gentiles, can't change that historical truth.

Israel is not an Apartheid state even because one main reason: All peoples in Israel' relentless on origin, religion or sex, are equal citizens by any mean. Arabs in Israel are freer than in any other Islamic state.

Gazans have the choice to calm the situation. Just tell the Hamas terror government to stop their terror against Israel. Try that direction.
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Referee, coach and parents in Swedish youth football fight
File photo of a referee holding a red card not related to the story. Photo: Stefan Jerrevång/TT

A football dad broke his leg in the brawl in front of 11-year-old kids after a Hammarby youth football game.

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Fury at plans that 'threaten the IB's survival' in Sweden
Blog updates

6 October

10 useful hjälpverb (The Swedish Teacher) »

"Hej! I think the so-called “hjalpverb” (auxiliary verbs in English) are a good way to get…" READ »


8 July

Editor’s blog, July 8th (The Local Sweden) »

"Hej readers, It has, as always, been a bizarre, serious and hilarious week in Sweden. You…" READ »

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