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Bildt rejects Israel boycott calls

TT/The Local · 7 Jun 2010, 14:29

Published: 07 Jun 2010 14:29 GMT+02:00

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The Swedish parliament held a debate on the Ship to Gaza convoy on Monday at the request of the opposition Left Party. During the debate Carl Bildt reiterated that the Israeli attack on the convoy was in violation of international law and should thus be subject to an investigation conducted by the international community.

"The fact that Israel needs to investigate the incident itself is understandable, but it is not enough. It happened in international waters and it is thus necessary that the investigation is undertaken within a framework involving the UN," said Bildt.

The Left Party's foreign affairs spokesperson Hans Linde welcomed Carl Bildt's clear stand on the issue, but argued that tough talk was not enough.

"It is becoming increasingly apparent that condemnation alone is not enough, those responsible for this carnage must be brought to justice," he said.

"Swedish military cooperation with Israel must be ended; each year our tax revenues are placed in the Israeli war machine. Why is this allowed to continue?" Linde asked.

Urban Ahlin of the opposition Social Democrats argued that a boycott of Israeli goods from the occupied areas would be an appropriate course of action.

But Carl Bildt rejected all demands for a boycott of Israel and for Sweden to call home its military attaché.

"Politics must rise above the petty," said Bildt and summarized the debate in that the opposition gave a clear indication that they are in agreement on one thing - to call home the military attaché.

"And they are also in agreement that it would not make an ounce of difference. Good morning! Get Serious! Foreign policy is no play house," said Bildt.

He stressed that the breadth of the international reaction could however have an impact on Israel.

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"Israel has been hit by a massive diplomatic backlash. Let's not stand outside of this by acting alone," he said.

The Liberal Party's Fredrik Malm pointed out that the reason behind Israel's blockade of Gaza is the ongoing Hamas attacks on Israel.

"I note that no one mentions Hamas, whose totalitarian and theocratic rule does not strive for democracy or peace with Israel, we must support the moderate and democratic forces. The problem is that the main organizer behind Ship to Gaza is closely allied with Hamas," Malm said.

TT/The Local (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

16:15 June 7, 2010 by wenddiver
What does Israel need to get from Sweden in the way of military items???? I am laughing so hard right now I am choking.

Last I saw Israel had one of the most advanced militays in the world!!!!! More proof that the extreme Left need to seek psychiatric help.
16:23 June 7, 2010 by Ilaith
I think it's the other way around.

We buy military items from Israel with tax money (UAVs for example). That money could theoretically be used for military development for Israel.

This is most likely another reason why Carl Bildt doesn't want to harm the Swedish-Israeli relationship. It's never been good anyway and we rely on their military technology (which is quite advanced in comparison with other countries to be honest).
18:00 June 7, 2010 by Guy with a big whang
Good Bildt is standing up to the psychos!

'They' know they cant beat Israel standing toe to toe (the last time they tried tiny Israel kicked for Arab countries in less than a week!) so they are trying to choke tiny Israel from the outside, a desperate and despicable trick.

"which is quite advanced in comparison with other countries"

Other countries don't have crazy people firing rockets into their country day after day, even when everyone agrees to a ceasefire. Other countries dont have suicidal maniacs screaming that your country should be wiped off the map. Other countries are not surrounded by a bunch of morons who look at cartoons and want to chop of heads. Israel faces this day after day, and has thus evolved - more out of necessity and survival than anything.
18:13 June 7, 2010 by Flappytango
sweden exports lots of weapons... planes, transport vehicles, missiles guns etc. to the tune of 2 billion dollars a year. at least that is the amount declared.
18:16 June 7, 2010 by JuliaB123
Gaza was illegally attacked during Christmas holiday, 2008.

People in Palestine has been treated as sub human.

We need to stop this Apartheid against Palestine people.

I have been in Refugee camp, and I knew what a terrible life they have.

They were deprived from education, hospital etc.

Many people do not know this as there is not much access to Palestine land.

If you have never had a chance to visit Palestin, I would like to recommend this DVD for people who would like to know what is going on.


Solution we should work is: Israel to go back to 1967 bord line, Jerusalem to be Internation Sanction (neither Israel nor Palestine shall own Jerusalem).

And we need to understand truth and work on above mentioned solution. (influence political party etc.) Boycotting is one way not support Israel`s mal-behavior.
18:47 June 7, 2010 by Marko2010S
I'm not surprised at all. It is predictable move by an ill-mannered goof (Carl Bildt).

Anyways, zionists control and rule EU + US. They're controling the BIG Obama, So it's so easy to control the little Bildt.

Screw them satanic state...
18:51 June 7, 2010 by Guy with a big whang
I meant "four Arab countries" above but because of a typo it came out as "for".

"Screw them satanic state..."

Oh yes, whats needed is Sharia law in the whole of Europe to convert all the satanists right?

And if they dont want to change, Allah gave you permission to strike them down wherever you see them right?

Israel is fighting the fight at ground zero, and thus will always have my full support.
18:51 June 7, 2010 by Rahelli
Bildt is doing excellent job
18:53 June 7, 2010 by boby
Funny who is 'demansing' to boycot Israel. Its the same idiots that backed the soviet evil empire. Its the same no-use, no contribution to humanity, baffons that support the model countries of Iran, lybia, Syria, North-Korea. Really a becon of humanity. I just wish they relive us from thir presence and go to North-Korea/Syria/Iran/Lybia/Gaza to live happily with their brothers and systers.
18:53 June 7, 2010 by Rahelli
The GOD of Israel is with israel people and countery that way jewish are very smart and strong people every where
18:56 June 7, 2010 by ali_bin_umar
I suggest EU generally and Sweden particulary to think about the viable solutions to ME conflicts. In order to maintain balance of power in the Midddle East region, Sweden should ponder to export weapons including nuclear technology to all democratic countries whose sovereignity is constantly defied by those who have strong militry forces.

Today if USA wants , they can declare Iran as their best friend and would start giving them all militry techonology, and I don't think so that Sweden would dare to raise any concerns about this. Sweden will only be regarded as independent country when she takes her own decisions, not dictated by others.
18:59 June 7, 2010 by calebian22
1967 borders, that is a joke! The land taken in 1967 was from Syria, Jorden and Egypt. "Palestine" didn't exist. Long live Israel!
19:31 June 7, 2010 by Guy with a big whang
@ali_bin_umar - welcome, and thank you for showing us the typical Arab intelligence and perspective.

Lets not even go into comparing the Israelite brains to the Arab brain, or we will start having "Einstein" and "Goats/t*rds/ret@rds" etc in the same sentence all over this thread.

Iran has openly talked about "wiping Israel off the map", yes, give them nukes and I wonder what will happen.

Of all the countries who have nuclear capabilities who has used it not counting Hiroshima/Nagasaki?

Now give a couple of muslim nations nukes, and you'll shortly hear about how allah personally told them that X place had to be cleansed.

Tiny Israel, kicking some major butt (and why the Arab butt hurts so much)

19:38 June 7, 2010 by laura ka baal
Obama is a puppet, n all the rest r pimp of jews,we should boycott their productd , even if we do individually it will make a huge loss ,like that of mac donald of 300 million euro loss ,b!coz many well wishers stopped eating mac donalds, as we know rest all r pimp,bird of same feather flock together, we should individually boycott,jews n american products.
19:51 June 7, 2010 by ali_bin_umar

google "List of Arab scientists and scholars" and you will get answer to your first part of comment.

Secondly I never used word " Israel" in my last comment till the time you didn't figure out strong militry vs countries with threatened sovereignty.

Every nation has a rise followed by fall. The world has seen the rise and now we gonna witness the fall. Remember Israel hands are filled with the blood of innocents and TIME wont forgive you.
20:05 June 7, 2010 by krrodman
Those who support the people of Gaza voice righteous indignation at the country of Israel. They call for sanctions, and a halt to all commerce, and even a stop to all diplomatic relations.

I ask the righteous the following questions:

1. A few weeks ago North Korea, without provocation, attacked a South Korean ship causing the death of 46 people. Sweden was part of an international commission that definitively accused the North Koreans of attacking the South Korean ship. Have you, the righteous, called for an end to all aid to North Korea until North Korea apologizes and the proper reparations are made?

2. A United Nations tribunal identified Syria as the murderer of ex Prime Minister Hariri of Lebanon. Have you, the righteous, called for an end to trade and diplomatic relations with Syria, and have you called for Syria and Hezbollah to leave Lebanon?

3. There were thousands of rocket attacks into Israel from Gaza before the incursion into Gaza in 2008. 8 Israelis died as a result of the attacks - roughly the same number of people who died last week during the Israeli boarding of the Turkish ship. Do you, the righteous of Sweden, shed as many tears for dead Jews as you do for dead Muslims?
20:35 June 7, 2010 by GLO
Never excuse a terrorist for his goals, Hamas is the same party as the pre-war German hitler movement. Sweden should never side on the evil path.
20:42 June 7, 2010 by wisdoms
@ Krrodman and for all those, who believe;

"There were thousands of rocket attacks" by Hamas etc...

Just have a look on how Israel is spreading wrong information, how they are making people fool, even there on people... JUST OPEN YOUR EYES

www.you tube.com/watch?v=tfoFQcRcJJ8

(its "youtube" in the link correct it while pasting it in browser)
20:43 June 7, 2010 by Rolf100
Wow - did Sweden elect Bild?

I think Sweden should boycott all goods from states that support Israel and off course those states should boycott anything from Sweden!

That would end the need for this forum because Sweden would be broke and no longer viable.

I think Sweden needs to reign in their politicians to work on Swedish problems - or are there no Swedish problems?
20:43 June 7, 2010 by Kevin Harris
Because of his work in the Balkans, Bildt is a highly respected politician of international standing. His sensible comment, "Politics must rise above the petty" is significant as many other countries will consider it before making their own decisions.

He is right of course. Israel is in a state of shock at the strength of international revulsion, and is more isolated than ever. It serves no purpose to compound that isolation even further with sanctions. Even the smallest friendly gesture from any EU country must feel very welcome in Jerusulam right now. But, quite rightly, he calls for a UN investigation.

If Israel really wants to negotiate its way out of its nightmare, and into a secure and sustainable future, Bildt, and people like him, are going to play a big part in reassuring Isrealis that peace, with security, is a viable solution. And certaily a better option than the awful status quo they have become used to now.
21:15 June 7, 2010 by Guy with a big whang
@laura ka baal

yes, boycott everyone who does not buy into radical Islam, sharia law and halal meat.

You're the load your mom should have swall0wed.


- google "List of Arab scientists and scholars"

ummm, with billions of arabs throughout the ages (and most of the intelligent ones before rad!cal Islam reared its ugly head) of course you are going to have Arab scholars, nearly the same as any country.

To put that into perspective: put that list next to a list of western scholars.

The fact of the matter is, when Arabs are only supposed to read one book for everything - there's not a lot of room to grow intellectually.

" till the time you didn't figure out strong militry vs countries with threatened sovereignty. "

Ummm what? no seriously, i'm not being sarcastic... i'm just confused. That reads just a bit better than a baby walking around on the keyboard.

"Every nation has a rise followed by fall."

Yep, keep banking on that, and pray 5 times to All@h hoping that will happen.

"Remember Israel hands are filled with the blood of innocents and TIME wont forgive you."

Blood of innocents? you mean like this:

http://tinyurl DOT com/2crvxo4

or this:

http://tinyurl DOT com/2etqhzq

and i can google nearly every faith getting abused by muslims around the world.
21:47 June 7, 2010 by ali_bin_umar
@big whank..

You must be frustrated for lacking behind from your friends in killing less Palestine children. Go to synagogue , you will find good suggestions (how to kill Palestine children) without any cost but with blessing from your elders.
21:59 June 7, 2010 by Guy with a big whang
Never been in a synagogue, I'm not Jewish and actually have more Muslim friends (they're not from the crazy bunch) than Jewish. We dont discuss religion.

I do think its a pity about the Palestine children though, they have to pay for their elders/mullahs and "holy men" stupidity as well as the teachings of Islam that have been double bastardized by the a select bunch in Palestine and around the world.

These are also the same children that clerics in Saudi say are fine to be married off at 10 and 12 years old to 47 year old men... and isnt Saudi host to two of Islams highest places of worship?

No big surprise really, when the king of Saudi himself is a child abuser.
22:02 June 7, 2010 by Roy E
It's Turkey and the violent 'humanitarians' that are the bad actors in this sorry politcal play.

Hang tough, Israel! You've more support than a corrupt and biased media wants you to know. People see through this pathetic BS.
22:18 June 7, 2010 by ali_bin_umar
@Big whang... "I do think its a pity about the Palestine children though, they have to pay for their elders/mullahs..."

You are convinced that they(children) have to pay....

Well to end the discussion , I can just say that your statement (in comment#21...." You're the load your mom should have swall0wed")... now perfectly sits on you.
22:37 June 7, 2010 by krrodman

If thousands of rockets were not fired on Israel from Gaza, how many were there?

Hundreds? Is that better? Is that OK? Nothing for Israel to get upset about?

If 8 Israelis were not killed by those rockets, but only 4, is that OK? Only 4 Jews killed, nothing to get too excited about?

Why should Israel tolerate a single rocket from Gaza? Why should Israel tolerate a single death?
22:43 June 7, 2010 by manrush
Perhaps Malm should look at his own party's disgusting attitude towards Russia before scolding people for opposing Israel.
22:58 June 7, 2010 by Avidror
Lynched Israeli soldiers:


Flotilla's crew answered Israel's demands with the words "Go back to Auschwitz."

Why has great novelist Henning Mankell stated that Israeli soldiers shot at sleeping people, when he was aboard the Sofia and the shootings happened aboard the Mavi Marmara?
23:04 June 7, 2010 by Avidror
Call for a boycott against the products of a country is a punishable offense, according to the European Court of Human Rights of the Council of Europe:

23:04 June 7, 2010 by Michael84
He did the right thing
23:14 June 7, 2010 by Guy with a big whang
"You are convinced that they(children) have to pay..."

Using your own words "pal", plus there is no denying there _are_ children in Palestine, and abused by pedophile elder Muslims.

'Flotilla's crew answered Israel's demands with the words "Go back to Auschwitz."'

Sadly they played Israel like a cheap puppet show

"Why has great novelist Henning Mankell stated that..."

Guess we didnt know he was physic as well ;)
23:23 June 7, 2010 by ali_bin_umar
@Big whang

FRANZ LISZT, famed composer quoted in Col. E. N. Sanctuary's Are TheseThings So?, page 278

"The day will come when all nations amidst which the Jews are dwelling will have to raise the question of their wholesale expulsion, a question which will be one of life or death, good health or chronic disease, peaceful existence or perpetual social fever."
00:17 June 8, 2010 by wolfbay
These events are painful for me. I've been to Sweden many times and have ancestors from Sweden on my mothers side . My father's ancestors were Jews who escaped the pogroms in Russia. I fear that a toxic mix of old line antisemitism and muslim fundamentalist hatred is brewing. If I went to Sweden again I'd be concerned if It was known that my father is Jewish especially in Malmo but in other areas as well.
00:44 June 8, 2010 by Rebel
Some questions:

Is there such a thing as a genetic Palestinian? Are there national customs and traditions that are uniquely Palestinian? Has Palestine as a nation actually existed except, perhaps, as a provence of the Ottoman Empire or a protectorate of the British Empire?

The Kurds actually are a distinct people with ethnic traditions yet not one Arab nation has suggested that they have their own homeland. Ironic, isn't it?
00:47 June 8, 2010 by alingsaskev
I think the time has come to stop all of this ridiculous bickering.

Atrocities have been committed, continue to be committed and will continue to be committed by both sides in this squalid little tussle that we call the "Israeli - Palestinian Problem."

I'm British and I hold up my hands and blame the British Government for shoddy diplomacy back in 1947 for creating this bloody mess in the first place.

I am Not Pro-Palestine, nor am I Pro-Israel, I simply feel saddened by the whole ghastly mess.

However, as far as current events are concerned an international aid convoy goaded the Israeli state into action and Israel retaliated with predictable gusto. Should we be surprised? - No. Should we condemn it? - Certainly. Should the international community finally have the guts to stand up to a Bully state and say, "Stop it now, or face many years in the wilderness again." I would hope that it would.

Apartheid in South Africa was condemned by the world and rightly so. What is happening in Israel-The Palestine is no different and should be condemned as vociferously and as totally. There can be no room in the modern international community for intolerant and isolationist regimes.
02:31 June 8, 2010 by wisdoms
@krrodman and All others who are justifying killing and inhuman treatment of Israel.

This is not the point, the point is Israel creates a drama and lies to make their own people fool as well as the whole world, JUST to justify their in-human treatment with Palestine and spread hate against them.

If 8 people or 4 people of Israel die, they start shouting about terrorism and start bombing with their full force on those people who cannot even defend them selves, are they NOT HUMANS?

Above all this, the greatest tragedy is when, people say, Israel have right to defend it self. DEFEND from whom??? Children with stones in HAND???

If Israel have every right to protect them, then what about those people, who are killed by Israeli tanks and bullets??? Consider yourself lucky enough that you were not born in Palestine and you are not one of the those children who have lost their everything, due to in-human treatment of Israel. Bcz you cannot imagine their pain, They are human as you. It is very easy to sit and comment here.

If you wana close your eyes and stick to what fake information you get, its up to you. But at-least DON'T SPREAD HATE.

04:31 June 8, 2010 by Peace_Activist
Sweden can not boycott Israel...if you are a swede, do read here:


If you are not a swede, there is english version of the site.

If you want to learn about israel and their crimes go to :

www.iamthewitness.com the site is owned by american who exposes israel's crimes.

There is also www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com for good posts in regards to recent israeli terrorist attack on humanitarians in international water.

you can also read here www.whatreallyhappened.com good site updated every half hour..

Good luck and stop listening to lies..be careful there are those who to try keep you from truth...so go and find out for yourself in those site I just posted.
04:34 June 8, 2010 by krrodman

We agree on so many things....and yet see things so differently.

All lives are sacred, no doubt. Where do we begin? Israel is a legitimate state and yet many surrounding Arab countries, not to say Hamas and Hizbollah, refuse to recognize the right of Israel to exist in peace under any circumstances. What would you do Wisdom, if I threatened to kill you? Would you wait for me to strike first? I should think not? Rather, I think you would do whatever is necessary to protect yourself without any regard for my well being, just as Israel shows little regard for Hamas.

Frankly, I think that the Israeli blockade of Gaza is completely misguided. If the intent of the blockade was to convince the people of Gaza to discard Hamas, the blockade has been a failure. If the intent of the blockade was to reduce the shipment of arms to Gaza, it has been a partial success at best. We all know that arms freely reach Gaza through Egypt. So, the blockade has done very little for Israel but create international ridicule. The blockade should end.

The scariest part of all of this is that the next war is coming soon to the middle east. Hamas is better armed. Hizbollah is better armed. Both Syria and Iran want to flex their military might. The people of Gaza, Lebanon and Syria will suffer the consequences. The bloodshed in the next war will be catastrophic.
06:17 June 8, 2010 by sweco1
Carl Bilt is the reason Olof Palme was killed.

They are just getting the people that are in their way out of the way.

The motive is that simple.
06:27 June 8, 2010 by JuliaB123
Real problem is Israel`s behavior and Apartheid against palestinian people.

Do you realize why Hammas exist? Israel must change. And must agree on 1967 bord line and Jerusalem as International sanction.

As I'm sure you've heard, less than 60 hours ago at least 9 people carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza on a six-ship flotilla were killed by the Israeli army when it attacked one of the ships. Dozens were badly injured. The ships were in international waters and had stopped overnight, expecting to continue transporting more than 10,000 tons of aid to Gaza the next morning. Most of those killed and injured were Turkish.

I am chilled knowing that I was meant to be on the Mavi Marmara boat had I not already committed to this delegation, and I wonder if I could have been as brave as the others on board. I feel a great kinship with Turkish Palestine solidarity activists with whom I worked during my years living in Ankara and although I am no nationalist, I was proud to carry a Turkish flag today.

We here in Palestine are stunned, not by Israel's immorality (Israel has committed far worse crimes), but by its arrogance. Israel assumes it can kill anyone it wants anywhere it wants with impunity. Israel is wrong. And this, like the 2008-2009 War on Gaza (Operation Cast Lead), should be a turning point in international opinion and, more importantly, international action.

For more info. please click here:


Point is again, we shall all work for 1967 bord line and Jerusalem as International sanction, and stop this Apartheid. Humanitanian aid workers are there because it is truely terrible living condition under the occupied palestine land.
07:52 June 8, 2010 by ali_bin_umar
@JuliaB123... wish you best of luck for your great efforts for great cause.
08:46 June 8, 2010 by calebian22
So Jordan, Syria and Egypt will suddenly donate land that was "theirs" in 1967 to the Palestinians? Why because all three of those countries have been so outspoken and supportive of the Palestinians since 1967, with closed borders with Egypt and Gaza and refugee camps in Jordan and Syria? Arab and Muslim nations scream about the plight of the Palestinians while at the same time ignoring them. Wow! That is some kind of Muslim brotherhood. Where do I sign up?
08:52 June 8, 2010 by pintoflex
is Fredrik Malm the only one that sees the big picture?

oh I forgot, there are elections coming and muslim votes counts let's lash at Israel and get them (the votes). Hell, it's working for Ahmenidjad.
09:00 June 8, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
krrodman. You wrote: "Where do we begin? Israel is a legitimate state and yet many surrounding Arab countries, not to say Hamas and Hizbollah, refuse to recognize the right of Israel to exist in peace under any circumstances."

I think that you show here a common misunderstanding of the opposition to Israel.

First your "under any circumstances" I do NOT think is correct and is an exaggeration which strikes me as a form of denial.

Second, the legitimacy of Israel to exist on Palestinian land has ALWAYS been contested by the people who lived there prior to 1948. That assertion of legitimacy rests on the British Balfour Declaration of 1917 and the UN General Assembly's partition plan resolution of 1947.But the UN without the consent of the majority of the people of Palestine did not have the right to decide to partition Palestine or assign any part of its territory to a minority of alien immigrants in order for them to establish a state of their own. If you are interested you can read more here:


Third, of course those people deny Israel's right to exist on their land. Who wouldn't.The key point has ALWAYS been WHERE is Israel's right to exist demanded?

WHERE are the borders of this Israel who MUST be allowed to exist and recognised?

Israel has NEVER declared its borders and is slowly expanding by aggression and military conquest and now with illegal settlements. I.e. facts on the ground. In other words, "ethnic-cleansing by stealth".

Look at this map.


It demonstrates, more than any words can, the falsity of all this rhetoric presenting Israel as the peaceful state just wanting to live as a "peaceful" neighbour!
09:35 June 8, 2010 by Hagrid
All facts (as well as common misconceptions) related to the Gaza-bound flotilla are addressed accurately and neatly over here (including in Swedish):


Be sure also to check out the movie clips provided there, especially the second one - "flotilla choir presents"...
10:50 June 8, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
Hagrid, that site is full of innaccuracies half-truths and Israeli propaganda.

Its clearly an Israel PR site.

Just take this sentence: "No country would allow illegal entry of any vessel into their waters without a security check."

But we all know that they didn't enter Israeli waters.

Or this one:

"...Hamas is responsible for the suffering of both Palestinians and Israelis."

What? :-o

Palestinian suffering has been going on for decades.

And Hamas did not even exist until1987.

Hamas was created by Palestinians to ease Palestinian suffering

The great irony is that Israel clandestinely supported and encouraged Hamas' early growth in an effort to undermine the secular Fatah movement of Yasser Arafat. According to UPI, Israel supported Hamas as a "counterbalance to the Palestine Liberation Organization".
12:32 June 8, 2010 by flintis
@ juliaB,

Your a deranged fool & a sectarianist, 'people who throw stones should not live in glass houses'
12:33 June 8, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
If justice becomes the beacon that guides the UN toward peace, it would have to begin at Resolution 181, the partition of Palestine. Assumptions were made at that point... that had both positive and negative effects. A moral determination was made that the Jews deserved a homeland as a consequence of the horrific slaughter that had decimated their people. The world accepted a moral responsibility to right that atrocity; in so doing, they assumed, perhaps unwittingly, that they could grant to the Jews a portion of another people's land. That assumption, however, was not shared by the natives of that area. Yet the reality remains that the division and its assumptions became the basis for the existence of an Israeli and a Palestinian state.

Justice demands that Israel and the United Nations address the enormous inequities that exist in Palestine.

There is no justice if the division of the land remains 86 per cent to 14 per cent when both populations are of approximately equal size, especially if the right of return is acted upon according to international law.

There is no justice if Israel remains the controlling power over a faux state that cannot manage its own affairs nor control its own destiny.

There is no justice if Israel does not compensate those from whom it has stolen land and return to Palestine the natural resources it has commandeered.

There is no justice if a reconfiguration of the land is not achieved so that both peoples can move freely from one sector of their country to another.

There is no justice if the separation wall continues to imprison the Palestinians with its constant reminder that Israelis defied international law to impose their own and made visible the unacceptable attitude that one people has a right to psychologically and physically isolate others from communication with their neighbours or the world, a collective punishment that denies the very humanity of the people.

There is no justice if the status quo remains the day-to-day reality of the Palestinians, because that way is a slow, torturous route to sickness, psychological torture, deprivation, starvation and death; it is the Israeli government's heinous action of a slow genocide acted out on the world stage as the European Union, the Asian nations and America look on indifferently.

There is no justice if the United States blocks the UN Security Council from enforcing the means to bring about justice in Palestine, an action that may require the UN to stand against the United States or lose its credibility as an international body that protects the weak as well as the strong.

And, conversely, there is no justice if the Palestinians do not accept the people of Israel to live in peace and security, in separate states or in one, so that all may thrive and enjoy the fruits of their labour.

- - William Cook

12:38 June 8, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
How unfortunate that the sympathy of Europeans and Americans for the plight of the Jews at the end of World War II, indeed of the community of nations that compose the United Nations when they offered them a home in Palestine through Resolution 181, should have been turned by deceit and propaganda into an apartheid state that has ruthlessly subjugated the indigenous population as they appropriated their land and imprisoned them behind concrete walls and electrified chain-link fences making impossible a normal life.

How unfortunate that Americans have devoted so much of their wealth to a nation that had no intention of complying with the British government in 1940, nor the United Nations Partition Plan to provide for both peoples, but rather to claim that they were the victims of those who wanted to destroy them and drive them into the sea.

How unfortunate for the indigenous people that they were driven into the sea as armies in the tens of thousands of Jews swarmed down upon their villages and wiped them off the map.

How unfortunate that United States congressmen and women have become the pawns of a power that threatens their political will if they disobey the dictates of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) regardless of the consequences to American soldiers and American security.

Consider what might have been.

What if the immigrant Jews had arrived in Palestine and the British-created Jewish Agency had cooperated with the Mandate police rather than clandestinely worked against it, to fashion a “home” for the Jews living side by side with the Palestinians who owned all but 6 per cent of the Mandate land governed by Britain.

Consider how things might now be with a Jewish population unencumbered with the fanatical sects from Russia that drive the apartheid demands that corrode the very core of Judaism with their sick understanding of their historical right to a land because they are God's chosen and the goyim [gentiles] are subhuman.

Consider the richness of that land in mind and soul had these people worked together to fashion a state that would be a doorway for the west to the east and not the source of vengeance and violence that it has become.

What if rule by law had prevailed and not rule by defiance."

- - William A.Cook

Orofessor of English at the University of La Verne, California, USA.

12:45 June 8, 2010 by flintis
@ mysticbumwipe

Your extremely bias against the Jews. Are you bias against all semetic races?
12:55 June 8, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
To Flintis: Replying to facts and reason with such an inaccurate and personal abuse I regard as a weak response and a fallacious argument.

But to answer your question, I understood that Palestinians and Arabs are themselves Semites.

So, no, I have NO bias against semitic races.

On the contrary.

I do have an intolerance of what I see as injustice and deceit, though. ;-)
13:48 June 8, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
There is much discussion here of Israel's right to "self-defence".

This is based on an assumption that everyone takes it for granted that Israel has a legitimate right to exist upon (and therefore defend) the lands stolen from Palestinians and thus defend the people living on those stolen lands.

So a discussion of such rights really must examine the basis of this claim to legitimate ownership of those lands.

ANd this is of course to get to the basis of the whole conflict.

Israeli propaganda will always try to avoid this topic

as to admit the historical facts is to nullify all talk of "self-defence" and shows it as a deceit.

If any one here doubts this and is GENUINELY interested in UNDERSTANDING the ROOT causes of this cancerous conflict, then I suggest doing some research on the basis of Israel's claim to legitimacy.

Here is one to start you off:


Its entitled "What legitimacy does Israel have?"
14:24 June 8, 2010 by flintis

No misconception on my behalf. I base my opinion of your bias on the content of your posts. Strange, though of the same ancestry dating back 100s of 1,000s of yrs & cannot live together.

If there was no religion, what then would they find to disagree about?

Don't delude yourself that this conflict is confined to Jews vs Palestinians, throughout the centuries the Arab tribes/nations have found it impossible to agree. They cannot live in peace, be it in Iran, Irak, Sweden or the UK.
14:49 June 8, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
Flintis, you wrote: "what then would they find to disagree about?"

My own opinion is that this has less to do with religion and is more about land.

The architects of Zionism were and are athiests for the most part, and the Palestinians just want their land back.

In an editorial in The Guardian in January 2006, Khaled Meshaal, the chief of Hamas's political bureau stated:

"Our message to the Israelis is this: We do not fight you because you belong to a certain faith or culture. Jews have lived in the Muslim world for 13 centuries in peace and harmony; they are in our religion "the people of the book" who have a covenant from God and his messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him), to be respected and protected."

Our conflict with you is not religious but political. We have no problem with Jews who have not attacked us - our problem is with those who came to our land, imposed themselves on us by force, destroyed our society and banished our people."
16:55 June 8, 2010 by Hagrid

I have neither the interest nor the energy to read and address your lengthy anti-Zionist diatribies,as they are not releant to the topic on hand, namely the Gaza flotilla. Instead I will focus only on your remarks to the website I provided.

The website does not hide the fact that it was made by Israelis. But as long as the site sticks to the actual and accurate facts, this does impinge on its credibility. You have to read it entirely because it covers all the issues and aspects, backed up by evidence. Now let's address the two arguments you brought up.

"we all know that they didn't enter Israeli waters" - true, but this point is fully addressed if you conitnued reading to the title, "Is the blockade lawful?" and further down, "ISRAEL CAN ENFORCE THE BLOCKADE IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS". I further want to note that in 2002, the American navy seized a North Korean boat in international waters, on the mere suspicion it carried weapons, and in 2007, Iran seized a British Royal Navy boat sailing in IRAQI waters, and humiliated its crew. In both of these cases the crew surrendered immediately, but had they displayed the slightest bit of resistance, I have no doubt in my mind that their captors would have reacted much less restraintedly than the IDF did in the Mavi Mamara.

As for your second argument, where you contest the claim that Hamas is responsible for the suffering of both Palestinians and Israelis, and claim that "Hamas was created by Palestinians to ease Palestinian suffering" - you conveniently left out the sentence which come next - "Their racist charter calls for Islamic domination; their stance is unchanged and they repress any Palestinians that try and counter their regime". Since Hamas took over Gaza, it imposes a reign-of-terror, often murdering, tormenting or terrorizing its opposiion, just ask the relatives of all the slain Fatah members. Hamas charter specifically calls for the continuous armed struggle until ALL of palestine is liberated. Which explains why they shot over 10,000 rockets into Israeli towns, mostly AFTER Israel withdrew entirely from Gaza in 2005. And of course, they started shooting the rockets BEFORE any blockade was imposed on them, and BEFORE operation Cast Lead - otherwise there would be no blockade and no Cast Lead. Moreover, did you know, by the way, that the humantarian aid brought by the seized boats last week, and transferred by Israel from Ashdod to the Gaza crossing - were not yet given to the Palestiniians, because Hamas intentionally holds them up in order to make a political statement? What do you have to say about that?...

Given everything I listed here, there is no doubt that the absolute last thing Hamas is doing is "easing Palestinian suffering".
17:26 June 8, 2010 by Annaya
Check out You Tube's "We Con The World".

The United States gives Gaza one billion dollars each year......where does it go?

You will love the video......unless you are a "human shield."
19:57 June 8, 2010 by flintis

& I wrote

# Don't delude yourself that this conflict is confined to Jews vs Palestinians, throughout the centuries the Arab tribes/nations have found it impossible to agree. They cannot live in peace, be it in Iran, Irak, Sweden or the UK.#

If you check historical maps, you'll find the Palestinians have almost the same land they had over 2000 yrs ago.
09:12 June 9, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
What sort of a people try to build their own security and happiness on the misery and insecurity of their neighbours?

Seems to me that despite all the wrangling, quibbling and devious fact-garnering going on here, that is what we are witnessing in Palestine and I think it is doomed to failure and is profoundly immoral.

Building our own security and happiness on the misery and insecurity of others is a very shaky foundation.

And just as I wrote, Israeli propaganda will always try to avoid the topic of the basis for any legitimate claim to the land and therefore by extension the basis for any legitimate claim to 'self-defence'.

And just so, have Hagrid and Flintis refused to address this crucial issue or even read the words addressing this basic point.

So, I rest my case.

Prof Shlomo Sands (Jewish historian and Professor of History at Tel Aviv University) has given an answer to flintis' last point.

12:06 June 9, 2010 by mysticbumwipe
Confession 1.

“We have forgotten that we have not come to an empty land to inherit it, but we have come to conquer a country from people inhabiting it, that governs it by the virtue of its language and savage culture ....”

Moshe Sharett, 1914

Source: Benny Morris, Righteous Victims, p. 91

Confession 2.

"We must expel Arabs and take their places ... and, if we have to use force -- not to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev and Transjordan, but to guarantee our own right to settle in those places -- then we have force at our disposal."

David Ben-Gurion, commenting on the proposed Peel Commission Partition plan in 1937

Source: Nur Masalha, Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 66

Confession 3.

"With compulsory transfer we [would] have a vast area [for settlement] ... I support compulsory transfer. I don't see anything immoral in it."

David Ben-Gurion, 1937

Source: Benny Morris, Righteous Victims, p. 144

Confession 4.

“Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population.”

Moshe Dayan, 1969. Source: Address to the Technion, Haifa, reported in Haaretz, April 4, 1969

Confession 5.

“Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours… Everything we don't grab will go to them.”

Ariel Sharon, 1998. Source: Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

Confession 6.

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country..."

David Ben-Gurion, 1973

Source: Nahum Goldman, The Jewish Paradox, p. 99

Confession 7.

“There is no more Palestine. Finished.”

Moshe Dayan

Source: Avi Shlaim, Iron Wall, p.316

Confession 8.

“Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."

Ariel Sharon, 2001

Source: Quoted in BBC News Online, 25 March, 2001
16:01 June 9, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
“ Bildt rejects Israel boycott calls or break in relations with Israel.” Good. Very good. Statesmanly.

In the ensuing discussion we have strayed a little from the original theme into the back and forth of the Hamas Camp antagonists vs. the Israel camp still going on in uncharted "international waters". Whilst Mr.Bildt may be thundering

( like Thor) “ those responsible for this carnage must be brought to justice ! " we should also understand and not forget that several Israeli soldiers were attacked and severely wounded.


Fredrik Malm is ever closer to talking like a balanced and even-handed Foreign Minister in search of Justice : "I note that no one mentions Hamas, whose totalitarian and theocratic rule does not strive for democracy or peace with Israel, we must support the moderate and democratic forces. The problem is that the main organizer behind Ship to Gaza is closely allied with Hamas,"

That's more like it!

Tomorrow we'll know better, for now, here's some (tentatively) good news for Mr.Bildt:


@wisdoms #18 who says

“Krrodman and for all those, who believe;

"There were thousands of rocket attacks" by Hamas etc...

Just have a look on how Israel is spreading wrong information”

Wrong information?

Check these FACTS:


After Israel had left Southern Lebanon , and after Hezbollah had kidnapped Israel soldiers, Hezbollah fired over 4,000 rockets into Israel in the 2006 Hezbollah vs. Israel war (N.B. Hezbollah is not the official Army of Lebanon , under the control of the government of Lebanon. Just as Hamas cannot claim to be the Palestinian people's army under the control of the Palestinian People's government. In fact one of the demands for the birthing of a future Palestinian State is that it should be de-militarised .(Much more about this but space does not permit just now)


“The production of Qassams began in September 2001 following the outbreak of the Second Intifada. The first Qassam to be launched was the Qassam-1, fired on October 2001, with a maximum range of 3 kilometers (2 mi) to 4.5 kilometers (3 mi).[6] February 10, 2002 was the first time Palestinians launched rockets into Israel, rather than at Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip. One of the rockets landed in Kibbutz Saad.[8] A Qassam first hit an Israeli city on March 5, 2002 when two rockets struck the southern city of Sderot. Some rockets have hit as far as the edge of Ashkelon. The total number of Qassam rockets launched exceeded 1,000 by June 9, 2006. During the year 2006 alone, more than 1,000 rockets were launched. In 2008, 1750 rockets were launched. By the end of December 2008, a total of 15 people had been killed by Qassam rockets since attacks began in 2001 (see: List of Qassam rocket attacks).[9] “

00:12 June 10, 2010 by rumcajs
@guy with a big whank and everybody,

I'm half arabic ( christian, if you are curious ) and at some point I even got to agree with Israel. Nobody would like to have their bus blown up with them inside. But in the other hand you can't just smash a country in every way because there are a bunch of lunatics between the rest of the people.

We have a terrible dict... president in my country and would not like to have my house bombed and my friends and family becoming collateral damage just because of that ONE m.f. and his gang.

There are children in very crapy conditions there and I do not agree that Israel should block the place like that. I have a 1 y/o boy and when I see the images of those ones in Gaza, I feel like going there myself and help them somehow. Israel new they'd do this since they took their people out. They did it for that, for having green light to exterminate all these persons. They are PERSONS like we are, but just between a bunch of fanatics and a state that's doing with them the same as the nazis did.

They've been going too far.
02:28 June 10, 2010 by ajs42548
JuliaB123.. Why was the PLO formed in 1967, 3 years before the 1967 war? Hint: It wasn't to make nice with Israel. Why does Hamas keep saying that they will never live in peace with Israel? Why was the blockade not put into effect until recently? Why did Hamas start firing rockets just hours after Israel left Gaza? There was no blockade then. Why don't you give Israel credit for waiting 3 years before going in to Gaza to stop the unprovoked rocket attacks? I don't expect an answer from you because that would mean that you would have to say something nice about Israel and bad about Muslims.
11:51 June 10, 2010 by geekgirl
@JuliaB123 (in all your posts)

Simply, love!

@mystic #59

Thank you for debunking many Zionist myths seeping here. May I add a bunch more quotes to the mix?


@Guy with a big insecure and fragile ego #13

If you want to talk about intelligence and perspective, please show some respect for the dead, and the readers' intelligence. Not only is your supremacist Neo-Nazi-like remark of "comparing Israelite brains to the Arab brain" racist and idiotic, you obviously don't seem to know Jack-Sheppard about the pioneer - Professor Einstein.

April 17, 1938, in a speech at the Commodore Hotel in NYC, Einstein said: "I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. Apart from practical consideration, my awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain -- especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state."

January, 1946, in a reply to the question of whether refugee settlement in Palestine demanded a Jewish state, Einstein told the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry: "The State idea is not according to my heart. I cannot understand why it is needed. It is connected with narrow-minded and economic obstacles. I believe it is bad. I have always been against it."

December 4, 1948, a letter to the New York Times, from Einstein and other prominent Jews, denounced Menachem Begin, a future prime minister of Israel who is highly regarded by the current ruling Likud Party, as a fascist.

1952, Prime Minister of Israel David Ben-Gurion offered Einstein the position of President of Israel after the death of the first president, Chaim Weizman. Einstein declined!

@Avidror #29

Calling for boycott as means of peaceful protest maybe a punishable offense, as the reps of the Jewi$$$h community in département of Nord alleged it provokes "discrimination on national, racial and religious grounds", under Press Act of 29 July 1881. I wonder how they view the legality of issues like Collective punishment (on Gaza), forging allied countries' passports to carry out assassinations on foreign soil, and violating a bunch of maritime laws?

So much like Binyamin Netenyahu protoges; complains to Mitchell that the PA lobbied to block Israel's admission to the prestigious OECD and incited boycotting produce of illegal settlements. Ironically, it was Turkey who facilitated Israel's admission into the influential OECD, and look what pay-back it reaped. Israel never ceases to amaze with its agressive, often brutal, and defiant arrogance.

13:22 June 10, 2010 by geekgirl
@Guy with a big "whang" #23 & #31

Pity? Talk about pity.. Not only are you apathetic to the children's lives lost and their suffering, you skew the reality in a despicable exploitation of very sensitive subjects to support your frivolous and profane ad-hominem attacks. That's besides the libel and slander of completely irrelevant persons - Saudi Monarchy for instance, who ironically are allies and close buddies of (and solely kept in power by) of Bushes, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. and US government's foreign policies in so called "national interests". Still, it's not unbecoming for a guy who advertises himself as a "guy with a big whang", especially given the frequent sexual connotations in his comments, to resort to such means.

So to set the record straight, you support an apartheid regime that detains, tries in military courts, and sexually abuses (and threatens sexual assault) on children to pressure them into confessions. Unlike you, I don't subscribe to libel or slander bandwagons (or derail from main issues and facts at hand), as I have legitimate and very recent sources to cite. Say, Geneva-based Defence for Children International (DCI) for instance.

May 31, 2010

Israel faces child-abuse claims:


The next two sources are from "Defence for Children International - Palestine section" (retrieved today)

June 02, 2010

Besides mistreatment of Palestinian children in Israeli detention facilities, the use of children by the Israeli army as human shields, and the findings of a review of 100 sworn affidavits collected in 2009, including the finding that Palestinian children were made to sign confessions written in Hebrew in 32 percent of cases, a language they did not understand.


June 07, 2010

DCI-Palestine submits 50 cases of ill-treatment to the UN Committee Against Torture

Snippet: In the 12 months since the Committee reviewed Israel's compliance with the Convention, DCI-Palestine has collected sworn affidavits in 86 new cases of ill-treatment and torture, 50 of which have been forwarded on to the UN in support of the Report. The cases involve the use of physical violence and threats, including some of a sexual nature, to coerce confessions from children as young as 10 years.

Included in the Report are the results of a review of 100 sworn affidavits collected by DCI-Palestine throughout 2009. The results of this review are presented in Table 1 - Torture and ill-treatment – Sample of 100 cases from 2009.


Accusations laid there make labels - which are tagged on those who resist the occupation - such as "Terrorist" (or "Terrorist sympathizer"), seem heroic in comparison despite the primitivity.

You may now proceed with your personal attacks. They are very effective in catalyzing invaluable dissent in the silent masses.
15:04 June 10, 2010 by geekgirl
@ajs42548 #62

1. "Why was the PLO formed in 1967, 3 years before the 1967 war? Hint: It wasn't to make nice with Israel."

PLO was founded in May 1964, after nearly three decades of palestenian land stolen, by means of uprooting and expulsion and indiscriminate plundering of Palestinian property by Jews. PLO goal clearly was the "liberation of Palestine" through armed struggle. Definitely not to make nice with a so-called "Israeli state" - then not even recognized. PLO also called for a right of return and self-determination for Palestinians. Palestinian statehood was not mentioned, although in 1974 the PLO called for an independent state in the territory of (then British) Mandate Palestine. For more on the motivations, see mystic's comment #59 on preceding Jewish Leaders quotes, and even many more quotes in the link I posted in response in comment #63.

2. "Why does Hamas keep saying that they will never live in peace with Israel?"

Ironically, Hamas, and almost the entire world, agreed on 2 state solution (UN General Assembly GA/10896), just last year: http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2009/ga10896.doc.htm

By a recorded vote of 112 in favour to 9 against. Guess who opposed it? Israel, US, Canada, Australia, and a few pacific Islands that I doubt you can even pinpoint on an unlabeled map.

3. "Why was the blockade not put into effect until recently?"

Israel realized her military campaigns are all a big failure. Latest wars with Hezbolla in Lebanon proved it, the several wars on Gaza affirms it. Israel wants an easy victory without any casualties on its side, as to continue to claim its military might and superiority. No wants war or destruction. Even Hitler didn't want war, and surely he would've much rather accomplished his aims "peacefully" if he could, but would his rivals let him get what he wanted without any resistance, despite being assured total-destruction if they didn't comply (ex. London bombings)?

4. "Why did Hamas start firing rockets just hours after Israel left Gaza? There was no blockade then."

Israel destroyed tens of thousands of vital structures in Gaza indiscriminately, including residentials, hospitals, schools, government buildings, public facilities such gas & electric, communication centers, radio stations, even refugee camps like UNRWA. Not to mention all the civilians (including women & children) killed.

5. "Why don't you give Israel credit for waiting 3 years before going in to Gaza to stop the unprovoked rocket attacks?"

Because Israel were too busy preparing for Lebanon invasion and another war with Hezbollah, and there's yet another one coming which is inevitable. Israel will not accept to let that Hezbollah victory go by, and so it shall provoke Hezbollah to wage another war on Lebanon, and it will be much more catastrophic for Israel. Mark my words.

6. "I don't expect an answer from you because that would mean that you would have to say something nice about Israel and bad about Muslims."

Can I say? I know your question was directed towards JuliaB123, but I'd like to answer it too, please.

In the (predominately-Muslim) Arab countries, after all destruction and killing in Palestine/Lebanon on Israel's part, with full American support, or by the US in Iraq, many "Muslims" can't wait to welcome to the perpetrators, even before the bodies are buried and before the buildings are rebuilt. The Jewish attitude in that regard is much more worthy of respect. I'm sure you're familiar with that attitude; Never to Forget, Never to Forgive.

The Arabs have little respect from the majority of the world because they have little to no self-respect. They gave in to long occupations and then the long dictatorships of puppet regimes installed by the French, British, and Americans - for their own interests or to secure Israel. It's perfectly understandable that some people choose to live on their knees, than die on their feet. But in doing so, one chooses to become a slave to the aggressor/occupier. Something that I'm sure many (like me) find it hard to respect.
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