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Jews better at sex than Christians: theologian

The Local · 9 Jul 2010, 18:17

Published: 09 Jul 2010 18:17 GMT+02:00

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Leif Carlsson, a speaker at the Hönö Conference, wants Christians to come to terms with the faith's negative views on sex and compare them with those found in Judaism, according to a report in Christian newspaper Dagen.

The Hönö Conference is has been held since 1945 and is organised by the Mission Covenant Church of Sweden (Svenska Missionskyrkan).

Since the days of the early church, Christians have devoted their energy devoted to evangelism, not reproduction, given that Jesus is coming soon and a new world will be established, the report surmised.

"There are few role models in the New Testament. Jesus is not married and does not say much about sex and we will not get into Paul," Carlsson told Dagen. We could wish that the New Testament would say more about sex, but it says almost nothing."

The silence surrounding sexuality went from being influenced by a body hostile to Greek thought to becoming a negative view of sex.

"However, the church's skeptical attitude throughout history has changed such that one sexuality is view much more positively today," Carlsson told Dagen.

Within Judaism, sexuality has always been viewed as something fundamentally good. According to Carlsson, this may be because the Jews were a minority and childbearing was essential for survival.

"In rabbinical Judaism, it is heavily emphasised," Carlsson told Dagen. "They say that sex is more important than studying the Torah."

There is also a generally more positive attitude to the body and desire, Carlsson added.

"Men have sexual obligations to women. There are old rules on how often the man must satisfy a woman, different for different occupational groups. For a sailor, it is once every six months, for an unemployed person, daily and a teacher of the Torah, every Friday," he laughed.

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The Jewish tradition has clear patriarchal features, but Carlsson sees signs that there is respect for women.

"In a Jewish Kabbalistic text from the 1200s, it prohibits forced sex within marriage. That only happened in the 1970s in Sweden," Carlsson told Dagen.

As to why so many are hurt by sex if it is such a positive thing, Carlsson told Dagen, "The Jews would say that sexuality is one of the strongest forces that humans possess and must be tamed to have a positive effect."

The Local (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

19:03 July 9, 2010 by Nachos
I'm suing someone for that 2 minutes I just wasted reading this article.
19:24 July 9, 2010 by calebian22
It was much more interesting than the Paris Hilton story, however.
19:39 July 9, 2010 by Audrian
What kind of research is this? It is as unscientific as the claim religions make. Nachos is right; this article is a waste of space!
20:09 July 9, 2010 by Graeme.H
"There are few role models in the New Testament. Jesus is not married and does not say much about sex and we will not get into Paul,"

You mean like way Jesus did?
20:41 July 9, 2010 by Jes
Jesus and Paul were jews . If they not sex icons , that would mean that the tittle is wrongly worded , which also means that the "theologian" should master theology before publishing his theological findings .

He should start by learning the difference between Jews and Judaism
20:52 July 9, 2010 by Roy E
The Local deserves some sort of special award for hosting some of the most ridiculously stupid articles on the internet.
21:42 July 9, 2010 by zircon
Now one knows where to send the wife to on vacation. Not Spain, Greece or Russia, but somewhere else amongst the Jewish men so she can finally get satisfaction.
23:23 July 9, 2010 by Poutine
The talk could have been interesting, it seems lighthearted and exploratory enough, but yet again The Local slaps on a sensationalist title and twists the info as though presented as fact - I mean, perhaps the speaker really was framing it as such, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that it's not the case and that a Local writer just took a few soundbites and ran with them...
23:43 July 9, 2010 by blursd
This has to be the funniest thing I've read all day ...
01:36 July 10, 2010 by millionmileman
What a concept, the dirty little secret is that religious people of all faiths who are married are far more happy with their sex lives, precisely because they are not philandering. It is the belief in God that makes a more harmonious relationship between husband and wife, not who can score like in a game.

In Judaism It is the duty of the husband to revere his wife and to enable her to be most gracious and the wife to support and lift up her husband emotionally. This is why the world is in such disarray because a generation or so ago the woman of the house made men accountable, with a home men wanted to come home to. Man needs taming or he can be a beast.

Now people are adrift with no compass to guide them on their way. It is a pity such beautiful churches in Sweden are so empty and hopefully there will be a Jewish community left in Malmö
04:25 July 10, 2010 by waffen
My compass is just fine, thank you.

Sweden has more than enough churches to fill with their own inhabitants. That will be a big enough challenge that will last a few decades.

Malmo has to be reaquired by the original native Swedes of Sweden, those before unrestricted immigratlon, before worrying about any other community, thank you.

Sorry to be such a beast.
06:58 July 10, 2010 by mennos
Sounds like dildos. agains.
07:50 July 10, 2010 by goodbyeammar
what kind of stupid news is this?!!

Is this a new myth as the other myths?!

what kind of fanatism is this?!

again and again, radicalism ,

it is like the other myth about that ''Jews are the chosen people¨''

and also the other myth that ''god promised Jes the land of Palestine'' so Jews have the right to immigrate from europe, and leave thier countries and go to palestine there where they occupy the land, demolish the houses, kill palestinians,,,,,all this, to implement the god's words which is ''promising the Jews the land of Palestine'', and so then the terrorist illegal state of Israel has the right to exsit, but at the expense of Palestinians....but that is acceptable, because of 2 things:

God said this....and because Hitler killed 5 million Jews

so exist!
08:35 July 10, 2010 by gunnar2010
I do not approve ot the title. However, the content is very accurate. Jewish men are raised to appreciate their wives. The Jewish Torah is very explicit on how to treat their wives. The Christian Bible also writes about how a man is head of household and that he is responsible for the well being of his family and has to answer to God. Borth Religions have guildelines, not hard to follow. I'm not sure if "Choose your spouse carefully is in either". It should be, because when the reality of Hey the honeymoo is over, real life comes 7 days a week. Scandinavian men are smart also. They know that doing their fair share means, the wife is more relaxed and open to romance. Happy wive, Happy life fellas. No matter the religion. Be a good man and treat your honey with respect.
11:43 July 10, 2010 by Andersson
At the end of the 19th and beginning of the twentieth century, Jews were deeply involved in what was popularly called "white slavery": international prostitution rings. "White slavery," notes scholar Albert Lindemann, "was a concern of Jewish leaders throughout the world, who recognized it as a special problem." [LINDEMANN, p. 33] [Jews have also dominated the pornography and commercial sexploitation business, a trend which continues to this day -- see Mass Media section]
12:13 July 10, 2010 by kenny8076
jews might be better than christians but i believe us ''nonbelievers'' have the greatest sex!!
13:49 July 10, 2010 by Jes
You lie @gunnar2010 !

If Scandinavian men were that good to their "relaxed" wifes , the rate of divorce would not be 56% in Scandinavia . And tell me that its due to finace or domestic violence because a wife in Scandania is fairly financially secure and well protected by law.

I don´t think that you or the "theologian" understand that being instructed to be good at something does not always mean that one will be good at it . The fellow is trying to compare and contrast 2 things he cannot scientifically measure .

Good commedy ,though ----------!
14:05 July 10, 2010 by Audrian
This man sounds like saying "my religion is better than yours". Such kind of claims had caused numerous religious wars in Europe, destroying trillions of dollars worth of property (in present value), and killing millions of people. Through the hard way, Europe has finally learnt that religious bigotry is destructive, and futile. In the Middle East the religious sects have yet to resolve their differences. By keeping his his bigoted opinion to himself, the professor might be able to contribute to religious harmony.
15:34 July 10, 2010 by Internuncio
"04:25 July 10, 2010 by waffen

Malmo has to be reaquired by the original native Swedes of Sweden, those before unrestricted immigratlon, before worrying about any other community, thank you."

Just for the record:

Swedes are not native to Malmö. Malmö and the rest of Scania were invaded and occupied by Sweden as late as 1656.

Thank you!
17:04 July 10, 2010 by wenddiver
I guess this guy is so dumb he doesn't know that Psychology was foundd by trying to address Jewish peoples sexual traumas and problems. That wasn't a bunch of Cowboys obssessing on Freuds couch.

Sexually Consevative Christains are best, everybody is dead against sex, unless nobody is watching, then we are bumping like bunnies. There is a reason that English is the language of so many countries (Britain, US, Australia, New Zealand, Canada) and it's not the excellence of British trade policy. Sexual repression always triggers sexual action, try to purposely NOT think about sex for a whole day. OK, how did it work.
17:27 July 10, 2010 by Linda Rivera
The Jewish Bible (Old Testament) is part of the Bible for Christians and is as important as the Christian Bible, New Testament. God's Word is eternal and never changes. The Ten Commandments are to protect innocents! The Psalms are a source of comfort in times of trouble! Why would any Christian ignore the Jewish Scriptures which are very educational and delightful. On reading the Bible, one comprehends how loving and good God is, and how profoundly God wants people to have human rights. And be happy. Bible, Ecclesiastes 9:9 Enjoy life with the woman whom you love all the days of your fleeting life...for this is your reward in life.
18:29 July 10, 2010 by honorable
In judaism, it is a double mitzvah to have sex on shabbat. I'm amazed people did not know (from commentaries) that there is a huge difference of emphasis, between judaism and christianity, when it comes to sex. Which does not mean that some jews may not have sexual problems, or taht all christian are prude Victorians or presbyterians...
19:06 July 10, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
It should be in place to make the following observations about

"They say that sex is more important than studying the Torah."

As always, this morning before studying this week's Torah portion, after saying the mandatory First Blessing before Torah Study, and after saying the Second Blessing, and then the scriptural verses of the Priestly Blessing which translates,

“May Hashem bless you and safeguard you

May Hashem illuminate His countenance for you and be gracious to you

May Hashem turn His countenance to you

And establish peace for you”


I then read this excerpt from the Talmud: Mishnah, Pe'ah 1:1

And NB, the emphasis on the bottom line (translates)

“These are the precepts

that have no prescribed measure:

the corner of the field (which must be left for the poor)

the first fruit offering,

the pilgrimage

acts of kindness

and Torah study.

These are the precepts whose fruits a person enjoys

in this world

but whose principal remains intact for him

in the world to come.

They are:

The honour due to father and mother

Acts of kindness

Early attendance at the house of study

Morning and evening

Hospitality to guests

Visiting the sick

Providing for a bride

Escorting the dead

Absorption in prayer

Bringing peace between man and his fellow

And the study of Torah is equivalent to them all”

“And the study of Torah is equivalent to them all”

19:41 July 10, 2010 by Andersson
Is this online news website or synagogue?
21:16 July 10, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
Peace be unto you Andersson!

And third-ly ( it usually comes in threes doesn't it) just in case you think it's a mosque, you could please take your shoes off and come inside....

And Here?

"What kind of house is this," he said

"Where I have come to roam?"

"It's not a house," said Judas Priest

"It's not a house . . . it's a home"
21:58 July 10, 2010 by Abbot
You just knew that some dumb-ss punter would turn this into an anti-Jewish rant (i.e., Andersson).
22:07 July 10, 2010 by maksim
Is everyone here a complete imbecile? It is not saying that Jews as a people, as a "race" (a thing that is a figment of mans imagination) are born better at sex. It is saying that Jews, as a religious people, are better at dealing with subjects dealing with sex, and that the Christian stance on sex is one that is much more prude then the Judaic stance on sex. To turn this into an anti-Jewish rant could only be done by an anti-semite, and most likely, a Sweden Democrat.

Humans as a whole, regardless of religion, all have the same problems when dealing with sex. This article does not say that Jews perform better than other ethnicities in bed, it's saying the religion promotes sexual activity more then any of the other Abrahamic religions. All people have people who will be good in bed, and others that will be terrible.

23:24 July 10, 2010 by Andersson
Comparing some stance(in this case sex) and then promoting one on the basis of religion may trigger sense of deprivation in the other one. We need to adopt common standards which should be acceptable to most of us. If religion is the criteria to measure the performance of anything, then we are still in the darkness of religious era. Criticism doesnt mean anti-semitism. Please stop using this word so frequently as it may loose its due importance for what it was invented.
00:00 July 11, 2010 by Rebel
Okay, when what passes for Christianity was formed 4 centuries after the birth,death and resurrection of our Lord, there was a debate on sexuality. SOme believed that sex was best not engaged in, others believed Christianity should be seen as judaism with Jesus and felt sexuality was good -- after all, teh prophets were polygamists, and others who felt that sex was sinful but necessary to keep the flock alive, but that priests should be celibate (not sure what the stand was then on choir boys). The latter one out and so men who were quite willing to abandone the Biblical commandment to marry and reproduce were put in charge of theological research, education and administration of the church.

The guy in the article was correct. And as for those who say Jesus was unmarried, they might consider that Jesus was considered a rabbi, and rabinical tradition at that time was to be married. So...
00:18 July 11, 2010 by waffen
Primarily for the purpose of this thread, and my comment in particular, why not consider the Vikings of c. 980, or the Varangians, the latter's foray specifically in Ukraine c. 1350, who thereby contributed to present-day Ukraine' sYulia Tymoshenko's radiant beauty, or go to the 1656 which you have cited.

All the above citations for my purposes can be considered "Native." that is, before the present-day onslaught in Malmo, in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.

However, I would be content to merely back up to 1930, but I think that you see my point.

Thank you.
00:33 July 11, 2010 by maksim
It still seems that certain people can't get over the fact that this article in no way says that Jews perform better sexually. Malmö has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, this is just a way for waffen (waffen ss?) to vent their anger towards the pretty recent (past 2 decades) influx of immigrants into Sweden and particularly Malmö. Sadly Sweden is a country with a declining "native swedish" population, so it seems as if, in order to survive as a nation, Sweden must open itself up to immigration. You might argue, Sweden could do fine on its own, but that xenophobic mindset would only work if the year was 1850 and the process of globalization had not begun.
00:37 July 11, 2010 by gentle wind
Amusing material and not related to politics.

Circumcision is widespread not only in Israel. Circumcision(for preventive medical or simply aesthetic reasons) also prevalent in christian countries; in United States(first place), Canada - second, Korea(korean practicing christians) - third, Brazil - fourth, Russia - five, etc.

Lundgren - spherical swede in vacuum, Zohan - a true israelite from Israel and a very sexy men. Don't mess with Him..
00:39 July 11, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
Andersson's last take was not that bad , not like the anti-Semitic remarks beginning " At the end of the 19th and beginning of the twentieth century" etc etc ad nauseum.

Anyway, here are some imperfect thoughts about what's going down:

01:13 July 11, 2010 by Authentica
Could it be that The Local just twanted to write something positive about the Jews amid the criticism Israel faces lately? Btw i totally agree with goodbyeammar, God's chosen, pffff.
02:07 July 11, 2010 by maksim
Does god have a chosen people? Is god real? Do all Jews believe they are of the chosen people? Are all Jews religious? It may be the fact that most swedes have never met a Jew, and believe that all jews are fanatical supporters of the state of israel, believe that they are the chosen people, and are all extremely religious, even though the State of Israel is extremely secular, Jews as a whole are extremely secular, and some of the most prominent anti-Israeli activists are jews themselves.

To authentica, you equate the negative portrayal of Israel, to the necessity of for the Local to publish an positive article about the Jews, yet, you are most likely one of those people who says criticism of Israel is in no way anti-semitic. However, the reality of everything is, based on what I think is your logic, If they need to publish a positive article about Jews to counteract anti-Israeli media, then criticism of the Israeli government is indeed anti-semitic.

I am a jew, and do not believe that criticism of the state of Israel is anti-Semitic, and I am pro-Palestinian, and even have palestinian blood in me. Israel represents all Jews according to you. So if you attack it, it is anti-semitic. The world must understand that Israel in no way represent all Jews, it is merely a illegal and anti-semitic "homeland" set up by European powers in order to have a warehouse for Jews to emigrate instead of accepting Jews as refugees and or immigrants after the second world.
02:55 July 11, 2010 by waffen
Waffen means "armed."

Where did SS come into this thread until your introduction of the same?

You then went on to develop a thesis from that SS conjecture/speculation with a rant about waffen venting their anger, e.g., in an illogic which defines fallacious arguments.

Most young women in Critical Thinking courses in England know this as a fact at ages 15 -16. The German description for this is:Die Wird zur Weltordung Gemacht.

Millionmileman cited Malmo as a hope for Jewish community, and I responded, just as I responded to Malmo's not being a Swedish area ,when all of Sweden was Swedish, or Varangian, in the era after the Fall Of Troy.

All else is pure speculation.
02:59 July 11, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
From the blessings of sex, to warehouse politics. You think that that is all Israel is?

Baruch Hashem

Israel lives !


03:20 July 11, 2010 by wolfbay
My ancestors on my mothers side were from Sweden. The alliance in Sweden of the intellectual left and Muslims in their hatred for Israel is an interesting phenomenon I've been watching. Sweden will get what it deserves as the "Malmo-ization" of the country continues.
03:39 July 11, 2010 by goodbyeammar
i really wanna puke here...if is said that Muslims are better at sex, everyone would say extremism and radicalism...but when it comes to the criminal illegal terrorist state of israel, it is different. they can say that they are better at sex (since god told them that)

and they can kill palestinians (since god told them this)

and they can steal the land of palestine and create a terrorist illegal state in palestine...that is OK (since god promised them the land)...this is all accepted...you have to recognize the state of israel even if it was created at the expense of palestine. if you don't recognize it, the israeli lobby would say that you are nazi, they would call you jews hater!!

i am so disgusted to the degree i want to puke!!!!
08:32 July 11, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
You wanna puke?

What says Jesus about the matter?
19:26 July 11, 2010 by honorable
Swedes: read this account of jewish life in Malmo, and be totally ashamed of yourselves. How can you tolerate such blatant bullying and antisemitism in your own country?

20:11 July 11, 2010 by Torontonian

As a proud Jew, I must point out another silly article are a proves the pathological obsession with Jews. A tiny nation of about 12-13 million provides the media news in every respect, with a magnifying glass.

21:29 July 11, 2010 by maksim
To waffen, my apologies. Its interesting that the world cares so much about jews, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Its truly a sad thing, as the world does not demonize the Turks, for their extreme oppression of Kurds. Most people are not actually familiar with the history of Zionism. Zionism was started as just a homeland for Jews, wherever it be. The British ended up promising the Mandate of Palestine to the Jews in 1917 with the Balfour declaration. Zionism is a dangerous ideology, as is any religious based ideology.

My question is, why does the whole world think that every Jew is a fanatical Zionist who believes its their religious right to kill Palestinians? The majority of Israeli's only want Israel to exist, because they live their, and a large amount have been born there. Most people are to uneducated to have opinions on subjects dealing with ethnic tension.


Where in this article does it mention the nation of Israel? NO WHERE! You are an anti-semite because you equate all jews, with Israel. Not only that, it doesn't even say jews are better at performing in the bed, it says the religion handles matter dealing with sex better. So, I would call you an anti-semite, not because you are "anti-Israel", but because you are an idiot who hates jews and hides behind the, "oh, how come I can't just criticize Israel?" mask, and there are many people I admire who are extremely anti-Israel, but also fight anti-semitism, you are not one of those people.
23:55 July 11, 2010 by goodbyeammar

Don't play the anti-Semitic car! it has become an old-currency!

People like you, as well as, the leaders of the criminal state of Israel parrot the same rhetoric about anti-Semitism. You simply bank on the people's ignorance about Semitism and anti-Semitism.

Listen! I cannot be anti-Semitic because simply I belong to Semitic nation. I am an Arab. i must say that again proudly: I am an Arab. Arab people are Semitic people, so I am not anti-Semitic person.

Well, I don't hate Jews but I hate the Jews who believe that god promised them Palestine because this ideology in itself is a criminal one since the implementation of it is based on the destruction of Palestinian people and stealing and occupying their lands. However, I don't hate the Jews who reject Zionism and disbelieve the myth that ''god promised Jews people the land of Palestine''.
00:21 July 12, 2010 by maksim
You are being anti-Jewish because this article has absolutely nothing to do with Israel, or Zionism. It has to do with the religion. Thats why you are coming off as anti-Jewish. I do not support the state of Israel, but you can blame Europeans for the creation, rather then the Jews themselves. How come the Europeans didn't take in Jewish refugees? How come they decided it was ok to create the state of Israel as a warehouse for jewish refugess, on other peoples land? Why? Because they tricked the Jews into thinking that they were giving them a homeland for a good purpose, the Jews were satisfied, and the Palestinian people, some of which, like my family, where Jews, suffered tremendously, and continue to suffer. It is at this point, where Jews, and Arabs must reconcile, like what is being done in post-Apartheid South Africa. It's been too long, and over a stupid piece of land.
01:31 July 12, 2010 by Rebel
Ron Jeremy is Jewish. I have never seen a movie with him in it. Is he any better than any other guy in his industry?
02:01 July 12, 2010 by honorable
goobyeammar thinks that he cannot be an antisemite because he is a semite! Has he ever purchased a dictionnary? Given his naivety about words, I am seriously wondering whether he thinks that an Amerindian is an American married to an Indian!

goobyeammar: you are clearly an antisemite, because you hate what is the essence of being jewisht, or a key aspect of it. Your degree of antisemitism is of the same order as the degree of racism of those who love blacks as long as they stay in Africa!

I am not saying that you are a baby eating monster or a jew burning maniac. I am simply saying that you are an antisemite. Not an antisemite of the eliminationist sort, but an antisemite nonetheless.

Try to stop being an antisemite; for your own moral good.
04:23 July 12, 2010 by saab
The bigger question is... did goodbyeammar puke yet? Did he clean it up? How far down his throat did his fingers have to go to get the puking started? Can we have a video posted on YouTube?

By the way, Ammar the Araab, were there any Jews in the land of Israel say... 3000 years ago? I know that there were Canaanites, Jebusites, Amorites and loads of other people who presumably survived in some form to become Yassir Arafat. But really, did all of Jewish history begin in Europe in 1945?

But I digress.

Please do go on a tell us about that puke!

(Part time I work booking acts in various venues. If you can puke on command, say, when you hear the word "Jew", I would be willing to sign you up and take you on the road. Now, I am not talking Broadway or London's famous theatre district, but maybe the Cairo Hitlon, Gaza City public square, Damascus Sheraton...).
05:45 July 12, 2010 by goodbyeammar
The same blablabla....

The same method the Israeli lobby uses: demonize anyone condemns the terrorist Israeli occupying regime. Make him in the eyes of people anti-Semitic, make him Jews-hater! The same attitude was employed when the mayor of Malmö condemned the Israelis when they killed hundreds of children in their aggression on Gaza at the turn of 2008. He wondered: how can i describe the Israeli killing 400 children in Gaza? He said: should I Say: Israel peacefully killed 400 children? Should I say: 400 Palestinian children were killed but Israel did not have the intention to kill them, because Israelis are the chosen people, according to the bible?!!!!

You people-the Israeli supporters- are having a big and a serious problem in your propaganda machine. People started to know, so you should look for another way to deceive people...the anti-Semitism card does not work anymore.

I never said I hate Jews people. The readers can check themselves. I said I hate the Jews who occupy the land of Palestine. I hate them the same way i hate anyone occupies the land of others, regardless of his or her religion. I admire the Jews who reject the criminal radical Zionist ideology.
06:23 July 12, 2010 by sweco1
He got it wrong they are better at faking it!
06:35 July 12, 2010 by goodbyeammar
If truth be told, I'd already puked when I read the comments of the Israeli Lobby here (which is very clear. the Israeli embassy in Sweden hire people to battle in the media, who their job is to decorate the Israeli occupation in the people's eyes)


I won't say you lack education about Zionism. I know you know and i know you read, but you want to propagandize, but I will tell little information here for the readers:

The Europeans did not deceive the European Jews (European Jews are Europeans, cannot be refugees in Europe). It was Zionism which theorized about creating a Jews state in Palestine. a recommended book to know about that is the ''the Jewish stet'', which was written by the founder of Zionism Theodor Herzl. Jews leaders were the ones who approached governments of the power states for an attempt to convince them to create a state for them in Palestine. This is something all historians agree about. I recommend the reader to read any book about Zionism or any book deals with the so-called Israeli-Palestine conflict. Read for Israeli historians like: Benny Morris, Ilan Pappe, the former Israeli foreign minister Shlomo Ben-Ami and others. You can also read books written by the early Israeli founders like the terrorist Menachem Begin and others.

The European governments helped the Zionist leaders to create a country for Jews people in Palestine. of course the western governments have their own agenda. They wanted to compensate the Jews people for the holocaust. one has to say here, ever since the holocaust happened, the leaders of terrorist Israeli state blackmailing the world because of the holocaust in order to justify their occupation of Palestine and to justify their massacres against Palestinian people (I advice the reader to read a book for a great American Jews intellectual Norman Finkelstein ''the holocaust industry'' in which he explains how the Israelis misuse the holocaust)

Another important reason explains why western governments helped to create the Jewish state in Palestine is serving colonial agenda. After the dismantling the European colonialism in the middle east, the west needed a footage in the Middle East for implementing the Western agenda. The footage is the criminal Israeli state. That, in fact, explains why the western governments supply Israel with deadly weapons and enormous economical and technological aids.
06:41 July 12, 2010 by aab05001
Defaming Judaism and Holocaust denial are indeed anti-Semitic. However, criticising Israel and revealing the ugliness of its occupation of Palestine is nothing at all near anti-Semitism.

In fact, it is widely held axiom that anyone dares to condemn the Israeli occupation of Palestine and unmask its repressive practices is more likely at risk of being labeled as anti-Semitic and a hate-speech citer. Some months ago, In the UN anti-racism conference, Durban II, the Iranian president Ahmadinejad was condemned because of branding Israel as 'racist government'. Eight months ago, more specifically, when Israel bombarded Gaza and shelled its schools with white phosphorous, causing murdering around 1500 Palestinians, two-third of them were civilians, many journalists and politicians around the world were accused of being Jewish haters, just because of their critical attitude towards the Israeli war on Gaza. The anti-Semitism allegation has become a knife which is always put on the throat of anyone who dares criticizes or condemns Israel.

Israel wants all the time to be immune of condemnation. It does not accept any kind of cretinism when it persecutes Palestinians. However, telling the truth must not be challenged no matter what. Revealing the occupation atrocities is far from being a hate-speech. Instead, it is an ethical journalistic duty. What had contributed in dismantling the apartheid regime in South Africa was exposing it by the fourth estate to outside world. The Israeli occupation of Palestine is like other occupations, can never be garden of flowers.
06:47 July 12, 2010 by goodbyeammar
The roots of the so-called Israeli-Palestine conflict:

Like other Arab territories, Palestine was part of different consecutive Islamic empires for nearly one thousand and four hundred years. After the defeat of the Ottoman Empire, which was the last Islamic entity ruled Palestine, in the First World War, Palestine was occupied by Britain. In the course of the war, when it was clear as day that the Ottoman Empire is in its way to be defeated, Britain promised leaders of the Jewish community in London to create a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine. That pledge which, is known as Balfour Declaration and was issued on 2nd of November 1917, was, in fact, a consequence of tremendous efforts that were united by the Zionism ideology which theorized about the concept of the Jewish state.


It is a political ideology, founded in Europe in the late of the nineteenth century by the Austrian Jew Theodore Hertzel, which bears on its shoulder a mission of creating a national home for Jewish people in Palestine. It is agreed among historians that it was the anti-Semitism and Jews persecution in Europe what had nourished the seeds of Zionism in order to escape history of Jews persecution (Finkelstein: 1995: 8; Herzil: 1972:13-72; Morris: 2000:21).

The first Zionist congress was held in Basel, Switzerland in 1897, in which the methods of establishing the Zionist state were outlined (Ben-Ami: 2006:2). Different places were proposed for the future Zionist state like, Argentina, Uganda and Sinai Peninsula. However, in the seventh Zionist congress in 1905, it was decided that Palestine shall be the title of the Zionist project which will be done through transferring Jews people from all over the world to Palestine (Morris: 2000:24). But Palestine was overpopulated and not an empty land, a fact was known to the Zionists theorists (Ben-Ami: 2006:2; Morris: 2000:42). That's why Zionists were aware that the Jewish state could be only implemented by imposing the will of Jews on Palestinians which will be via transferring Palestinians out of their country and replacing them with Jews newcomers (Ben-Ami: 2006: 32). It was David Ben-Gurion, one of the Zionist leaders and the founders of Israel, who said at Zionist meeting in June 1938 '' I support compulsory transfer, I don't see in it anything immoral'' (Ibid: 26). Another Zionist leader, Yossef Weitz, the head of settlement department of the Jews national fund wrote in 1940 in his Dairy ''the only solution is to transfer the Arabs {Palestinian} from here to neighboring countries. Not a single village or a single tribe must be left out'' (Pappe: 2006: 62).
06:49 July 12, 2010 by goodbyeammar2
The British occupation of Palestine:

When Britain occupied Palestine in 1917, it opened the door for massive Jews immigration from Europe, especially from its eastern parts to Palestine. Due to that, Jews population of Palestine increased from 5 % to form one-third of the country's population by the end of 1948 (Ibid 29).

The situation in Palestine reached a critical situation in the 1940s due to the increasing tensions between the Zionists and Palestinians. Therefore, the United Kingdom decided to hand over what had become known as the ''Palestinian problem'' in February 1947 to the United Nations. In December 1947, the security council of the United Nations adopted resolution 181 that divides Palestine into two states: 45% of the area is for the Palestinian state which has not yet come to existence, 55% for the Jewish state and Jerusalem to be internationalized. The Zionists accepted the UN plan while Palestinians rejected to divide their country. Indeed the UN partition plan is questionable because the power states, or to put it rightly, the colonial states which control the UN, decided generously to detach part of Palestine and give it to the Zionists without even consulting with the Palestinians.

The Nakbah of 1948 (the Catastrophe):

Following the UN partition plan, the British authorities announced that it will leave Palestine for good on the 15th of May 1948. As soon as the last British military units moved out of Palestine, the state of Israel was declared on 55% of Palestinian soil. The day Israel was created is marked in the Palestinian literature as Al-Nakbah (The Catastrophe) as half of Palestinians or one million were expelled out of their homes and more than 531 villages were wiped off the map by the Zionist gangs (Abu-Sitta:2001; Pappe:2006:xiii).

Israel claims that it did not expel Palestinians and argues that they left their homes voluntarily. Indeed this is a fantasy argument suffers logical explanations because states usually block their borders in front of refugees in times of wars in order to avoid economical and social problems. That's why the former Israeli foreign minister Shlomo Ben-Ami admittedly said that Arab countries had no interests in the Palestinians exodus (Ben-Ami: 2006:43).
06:50 July 12, 2010 by goodbyeammar
The claim about ''voluntarily departure'' has been, in fact, disproved by dozens of works written by both Israeli and Palestinian historians which concluded that the founders of the Israeli state committed massacres and atrocities and expel Palestinians in order to create the Israeli state. Ben-Ami, the former Israeli foreign minister, wrote a statement, which is worthy of quoting here: ''Nobel Jewish dream of statehood was stained for ever by a major injustice committed against the Palestinians and the Jewish state was born in sin'' (Ben-Ami: 2006: 48).

Based on the official Israeli archives, the Israeli historian professor Illan Pappe wrote a book entitled ''the ethnic cleansing of Palestine'' in which he concludes that Israel systematically cleansed Palestinians out of their homes in 1948.

According to Pappe, different plans[1] were designed to expel Palestinian out of their homes. On 10 March, 1948, a comprehensive plan, codenamed as Dalet (D), was adopted in which, military operations will be carried out in the following manners: ''either by destroying villages……or by mounting combing and control operations according to the following guidelines: in case of resistance, the armed forces must be wiped out and population expelled outside the borders of the state'' (Pappe: 2006: 39).

In Acre city, Israeli loudspeakers were calling ''surrender or commit suicide, we will destroy you to the last man'' (Ibid: 100). The case of Acre city is a worthy of particular attention as the archives of the Red Cross revealed that the Zionist forces injected Typhoid in its aqueducts to suppress people so they leave eventually (Abu-Sitta:2001).

In Haifa city, the Israeli archives revealed that Mordechai Maklef, the Zionist officer who orchestrated the disposition of Palestinians in Haifa, gave an order to ''kill any Arab [Palestinians] you encounter, torch all inflammable objects and force doors open with expulsions''(Pappe:2006:95). The left-food, books and children toys in the depopulated houses in Haifa evoked memories of the Russian brutality against Jews in the mind of a Golda Meir; a senior Zionist leader who became later a prime minister of the state of Israel (Ibid).

Not very far from Haifa, at south, on the way to Tel Aviv, a village called Tantorah, was on a date with similar fate, but, in fact, more brutally. There, after the surrender of the city, men whose ages according to the Zionist mentality were between 10 and 50 were separated from children and sent to the beach where they were shot in the spot (Pappe: 2006:134). An Israeli soldier described the massacre as ''one of the most shameful battles the Israeli army [Zionist forces] had fought'' (Ibid).
06:51 July 12, 2010 by goodbyeammar2
Al-lydd is another city suffered Zionist barbarity. The defenders of the city, who were overwhelmed by Israeli air bombing, took the Dahmash mosque as shelter, but to be massacred later by the Zionist forces (Ibid: 167). 426 crops of men, women and children were scattered in the streets of the city (Ibid). The correspondent of New York Herald Tribune reported seeing ''the crops of Arab men, women and even children strewn about in the wake of the ruthlessly brilliant charge'' (Ibid). It is worth noting here that it was Yitzak Rabin, who became later a prime minister of Israel and won Nobel Peace Prize, one of the engineers of the attack on Al-Lydd city. He asked Ben-Gurion, the first Israeli prime minster about what to do with the indigents of Al-Lydd. The answer was quick: ''drive them out'' (Ibid: 169).

In November 1948, the United Nations General Assembly adopted Resolution 194 that demands the return of the Palestinian refugees to their cities and villages. It was the Swedish diplomat Count Folke Bernadotte who was delegated by the UN to the region on 20 May 1948 and demanded re-division of Palestine and unconditional return of all refugees (Pappe: 2006:156). He paid his life for that; he was assassinated by Zionist terrorists (Ibid).

In a closing statement for my talk about Al Nakba, let me remind everybody here that Israel denies the right of Palestinians to return which violates the UN resolution. The irony is that, while the indigents of Palestine are denied the return to their land, the Jews regardless where they come from, Sweden, Germany, Russia, etc., they are allowed by the state of Israel to go and live in Palestine permanently according to Israeli law of 'return' in 1950 (Khalidi: 2006: 192).


Ben-Ami, Shlomo (2006): Scars of wars, wounds of peace: the Israeli-Arab tragedy.

Pappe, Ilan (2006): The ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

Khalidi, Rashid (2006): The iron cage: The story of the Palestinian struggle for statehood.

Herzil, Theord (1972): The Jewish state: An attempt at a modern solution of the Jews questions.

Finkelstein, Norman (1995): image and reality of the Israeli-Arab conflict.

Abu-Sitta, Salman (2001): Palestine Right of Return, Sacred, Legal, and Possible. Http:http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Right-Of-Return/
07:07 July 12, 2010 by AussieAndy
"Men have sexual obligations to women...for an unemployed person daily."

Is this an incentive to become unemployed. :)
07:40 July 12, 2010 by goldfoot
Goodbyeamm, I think you are ranting without saying anything factual. Jews didn't steal any Palestine. First of all, there never has been a state or country of Palestine. The Romans renamed the area Palestinia after they attacked Jerusalem in 70 AD. They carted away a good part of the Jewish population as slaves, but there was a number of Jews who always remained. In 1948 it was declared a state by the United Nations. It was created as a haven for Jews. After the holocaust, when 6 million Jews were killed, we finally got smart and realized that if there had been an Israel we could have gone someplace. Jews couldn't get to other countries. You had to have baptismal certificates. There were quotas. My own uncle in the states had to sign papers to sponsor a stranger whose parents got him out of Germany. He later became my uncle, but he couldn't get his parents out or his 16 yr old red-headed sister. They died in the ovens. I'm disgusted with people who rant and rave lies about Jews and know no facts-just hatred. And by the way, have you ever read the old testament? Have you heard of King David or his son, King Solomon? The modern day state of Israel is on a piece of their ancient empire. For over 2,000 years Jews have said a prayer of not forgetting about Jerusalem. It was their home and place of their inspirations. With all that hatred that you're carrying around, you're making yourself sick. If you don't want to puke, stop hating Jews and learn a few facts about us.
08:11 July 12, 2010 by waffen
The man just gave six citations that are open to anyone who can read.

What about the American ship Liberty? What about the 700 unarmed Egytians soldiers who surrendered and who were machine-gunned in the desert by the Israelis, that the Liberty was tuned in to off of the coast?

What about the 1500 civilians cremated by WF shells, that the entire world knows about, is that, and all of the above, just lies to put down the Jews?

Israel is a criminal State that should be charged in the Hague just as were and are the criminal Serbs and Croats.
09:07 July 12, 2010 by Flappytango
maybe this explains the sucess of "buttman" and a big chunk of the porn industry
09:43 July 12, 2010 by Marko2010S
the hypocrite secular society (Swedes) talk about life matters (Sex) from religious perspective...

However, I can conclusively say that Muslims are 1000 X times much better than Jews and Christians...
09:47 July 12, 2010 by Open Minded
With all respect to our Christian and to those who says or wrote that Bible speaks not about sex.

Bible is called sometimes as X-rated book. The sex story and how to rape and commit incest should learn it from Bible.


Google x-rated verse in Bible. or visit w w w. 2think.org/xbible.shtml


For example:


17:9-14 Circumcision mandated

19:1-8 Rape virgins instead of male angels

19:30-38 Righteous man impregnates his 2 daughters while drunk

24:2-3, 9 Place your hand "under the thigh" (sexual organs) of someone swearing sacred oaths

25:1-6 Keeping mistresses is not adultery

32:25 God grabs Jacob's testicles

34:1-31 Brothers are riled when sister is defiled

35:2 Reuben sleeps with father's concubine

38:1-10 Onan's method of birth control not approved

38:12-30 Tamar plays the harlot to seduce father-in-law

39:1-20 Women tries to rape man

47:29 Joseph ordered to place his hand under father's thigh


20:26 God specifies building of altar to prevent exposure of nakedness

22:19 Death decreed for bestiality

10:01 July 12, 2010 by goodbyeammar2

Your words stink religious fantasy and radicalism. I've read the Old Testament, but I don't believe in it. You cannot just take others' land because of myths those religious fanatics like you believe in.

The myth of the ''historical connection'': Palestine was inhabited by the Philistines who are originally Greek and lived in the coastal area whilst the Canaanite tribes were originally migrants from the Arabian Peninsula. These two peoples are considered to be the forefathers of the current people of Palestine.

In the Bible account, Israelites arrived in Canaan (Palestine) from Egypt, which resulted in conflict with the local inhabitants of Palestine, however they succeeded in establishing the kingdom of Israel over Palestine. This kingdom fragmented after 80-90 years into two kingdoms which lasted for around 250-300 years and were destroyed by the Assyrian Empire and the Babylonians who deported most of the surviving Jews to Babylon.

As mentioned before, the Jews/Israelites colonised Palestine for a short period of time (less than 400 years), and by the Babylonian captivity, the existence of Jews as an entity in Palestine terminated. On the other hand, Palestinians were in the area before the Israeli existence, they co-existed with Israelites during the Jewish rule, and they remained in Palestine after the Jews left.

Although linking the Jews rights over Palestine with thousands of years earlier is extremely ridiculous, the notion remains a myth and has no base or any historical support.

But the point which still remains, it is extremely a hallucination to go back thousands of years ago to discuss justify creating a Jews state. However, even if we want to go back deep in history, still Jews cannot have the right to colonize Palestine because when they came to the land from Egypt, Palestinians were there, and the Jews fought with Palestinians (that is all according to the Old Testament).

In fact, the whole argument is radical and I prove that here: let us say someone is a Jew, and converts his religious to Christianity or Islam, what would be his status then? Would he be allowed to occupy the land of Palestine and take it (since you claim that Jews have the right over Palestine)? Judaism is a religious, it is not a nation, and therefore it cannot be connected to a land. Iraqi Jews are Iraqis belong to Iraq, like the Muslims Iraqi belongs to Iraq. Swedish Jew is Swedish; he is blond like Swedes, has similar norms and values.
10:15 July 12, 2010 by aab05001
Regarding that there was never a country called Palestine. Well, that is right, but does this justify expelling the people who live in the area (Palestinians) and create a state for European Jews?

There was no country called Palestine, but Palestinians live there, so in which logic someone can come from Europe and expel people from there because there was no country called Palestine. Just to clarify this point, the modern are states are all new. There was no country called Jordan; so does this mean someone can expel Jordanians and create a state there? There was never a country called Syria or Lebanon, etc. The Arab world used to be one Islamic empire or in some cases two or three Islamic empires.

I am so disgusted that someone here again, as it is the habit of the Israelis, is using the card of holocaust.

Goldfoot says '' He later became my uncle, but he couldn't get his parents out or his 16 yr old red-headed sister. They died in the ovens''

But what does this have to do with Palestinians? It is the Nazis who did that to you and to your uncle, not the Palestinians, so why to solve your problem at the expense of Palestinians?

And if the Nazis burnt your uncle in the oven, does this justify burning Palestinians with the white phosphorous? Does this justify demolishing the Palestinians homes and give them to the Jews, just because the Nazis burnt them.

Why to solve your problem at the expense of Palestinians?

The holocaust survivors, as different new historians, as well as, the Palestinian oral history proved, destroyed 531 villages in Palestine. So since ''six million Jews were killed in the holocaust, then it is allowed for the survivors of the holocaust to occupy and steal Palestine!!!! Indeed It is an effeminate approach!
12:18 July 12, 2010 by Jes
@Openminded , did Mohamed read the bible before he become a paedophile and Khadija´s sex object ?

I have always wondered .

BTW : circumcision was not an original religious order by judaism or Islam . It was a black mans tradition . African parents did to their sons hoping that this would stop the boys from " playing with " their penises . Alders thought that the foreskin was responsible for making young boys want to have sex before they were ready ( meaning before they could marry ) Romans thought it was a good idea , copied it and later adapted the same as a law . Jews made it mandatory ; of course muslims later picked it up and claimed that it was one of GOds messages to humans through Nabbi Mohamed .
13:44 July 12, 2010 by Open Minded

If Prophet Muhammad was too much after sex, he would not marry all those older and widows , a man with sexual desire would nt go for older or widows .

He only married a virgin Mother of Muslimeen Hazart Bibi Aisha pbuh.

Some scholars says she was 17 to 19 and some says 9-11. at the earlier ages people were getting married earlier. You may need to study about their marriage. everything were done by law of that time.

here is more of X-rated Bible.


31:1-18; 28-47 God commands genocide of Midianites, Moses orders that virgins be kept, other captives slain

5:11-31 God's fidelity test for women only


12:1-8 Bible calls childbirth a sin and bearing females a greater sin than bearing males

15:16-18 Sperm and intercourse are unclean

15:19-33 Menstruation unclean; elaborate rules

15:29-30 Women must make sin offering for menstrual periods

18:22 Homosexuality declared an abomination

18:23 More bestiality

19:1,20-22 Man gets forgiven, slave girl gets flogging

20:10 Adulterers shall be put to death

20:13 Death decreed for homosexuals

20:15-16 Death decreed for bestiality (& beast)

26:29 Curse: Eat your sons and daughters


3:1-7 Kill men, women, & children

21:10-14 God okays captured maidens as trial wives

22:5 Men's clothing not to be worn by women, & vice versa

22:13-21 A bride not a virgin must die

22:23-26 Virgin raped in city given no pity

23:12-14 Defecation: Carry paddle, dig hole, & cover up
14:51 July 12, 2010 by Jes
Yes , she was 9; he was 45 . There is a name for men who have sexual desire for small children . But if you want to reason that back then , there were certain strange ways of looking at things , then you are going to have to drop your habit of quoting the bible , which was written centuries before the Koran.

No , Mohamed "could not marry those older and widows" - they married HIM . He was a gold-didding gigolo of sorts .

And yes , the "law" that allows old muslim men to buy babies and make them their wives is still alive in some parts of the muslim world . That is why you need to shut your stinky vuvuzuela before you hurt prophet Muhamed´s religion .
16:37 July 12, 2010 by saab
For those of you who wonder where Osama bin Laden found recruits, just read this thread.

It is interesting to note that goodbyeamar, openminded, marko and waffen are here on www.thelocal.se, looking at photos of all those hot babes in bikinis in the sunshine, rather than in the stinking cesspool of a Cairo slum. Gotta love those those party photos too. Nice cleavage boys!

If they are so exorcised about things, let them head to Gaza, rather than leech off the European welfare system. Photos from thelocal are strictly forbidden there.

I think that there is a fatwa out on that chick taking a sunbath. And a fatwa out on the Jewish couple at their wedding (see top of story), no doubt about to enjoy sex and the act of procreation (to make more Jews).

Hey goodbyammar, do you have a day job, aside from cleaning up all that puke?
17:01 July 12, 2010 by Uncle
Goodbyeammar - you are tiresome.

This artcile talks about the quality of jewish sex, while medieval muslim such as you pulls everything to Israel.

Your historical events are easily denied through simply looking at Wikipedia, but also by understanding that the israeli arabs who are loyal to Israel and are terrified of the possibility of being ruled by a muslim dictator, are living a good life, whereas the "territories palestinians", who do not come from Canaan, but are a result of peoples shifts by arabs and Ottomans after Roman fall, are not even in Israeli territory that was originally given to the Jews. Therefore it is not the result of your celebrated holocaust.

These territories were lost by Jordan and Egypt in their 4-on-1 wars against Israel and interestingly - are NOT wanted back!!! Israel offered these territories back a couple of times already and both Egypt and Jordan are dreading the possible rule over the cute peaceful palestinians, whom they executed in thousands in the 50's and 70's.

Jews are smarter, they have more prizes and scientific achievements, they are better in movies, economy, politics, fighting, music, industry and inventions than 1 billion muslims. And now they even have better sex. So it does not matter how much you and people alike you are going to sit, whine and blame Jews in all your failures, you are still going to be a failure.


What is annoying, is that the purpose of "The Local" editors is to awake a discussion about SOMETHING if they have no news.

So they could write "Jews are better in sex" or "Jews like sunny weather" or "Jews have green pens stuck in their shirt pockets" and here we go - all the comments about how Israel is awful, while the blessing of Mohammad is upon every faithful muslim, who hates Jews.

I have a proposal for the editors - You have no news? Write a heading: "Jews" and start a discussion without any article. How about that? You can throw some variety by writing "Israel" and start the same discussion. Pity that it causes complete barbarisation of this newspaper, but hey - almost the entire unemployed Malmö is reading it happily on a break between trashing cars, burning homes and attacking firemen...
17:16 July 12, 2010 by Jean-Jacques Terreur
Anyone here familiar with the works of Wilhelm Reich? Analyst, sexual therapist and pupil of Sigmund Freud ?

He wrote some interesting articles about the bad influences of christian dogma and its condemnation/suppression of sexuality in societies dominated by this belief system.

This article seems to be NOT about "my religion is better than yours, therefor I have better sex than you", more about the way belief systems can have influence on the way societies deal with sexuality in general. And to me it's pretty evident that it makes a quite a difference for anyone's sexual development wether you're raised with "don't touch yourself there, it's a sin", "sex is only for reproduction, otherwise it's dirty" or the belief in "immaculate conception" or you grow up in societies that have a much more open mind about all that. The names of the religions are interchangeable in articles like that, NO religion is BETTER than another one!
19:45 July 12, 2010 by saab

Well said, my friend.

Imagine if The Local published this headline: "Jews rule the world" or "Holocaust a European problem" or "Israel is a fascist criminal state"

Paradoxically, goodbyeammar and his ilk would not know what to do with themselves. How could they vent and rant? Would they write in "I agree" and then go home for a change?

If you really follow their logic, it is rather frightening, even to Swedes. Remove all vestiges of the Israeli state from the Middle East; remove all references to Israel in the Chumash; send all the Jews to Europe or somewhere else; and what... form a world wide caliphate? What would Assad, Nasrallah and Ahmedinejad do all day? Probably aim their guns at King Abdullah.
20:05 July 12, 2010 by aab05001
the israeli lobby works very hard to whitewash the criminality of the criminal israeli state. you people are paid by the israeli embassy in stockholm. everybody knows this.
20:23 July 12, 2010 by goodbyeammar
Hahah..You really made me laugh when you mentioned Wikipedia. Academia has never recognized Wikipedia as a reliable source because anyone can edit its contents. The interesting thing is that the person who nicknames himself here (uncle) reject my references and talk about Wikipedia. Just to clarify the point here: while anyone can edit Wikipedia, the information I wrote here are taken from prominent historians who everyone deals with the so-called Israeli-Palestine conflict cite. For instance, I quoted the Israeli historian Benny Morris. I challenge anyone on this and one can try to make sure and read books, at least, 95% of the books that deal with the so-called Israeli-Palestine conflict cite this author. I also cited Ilan Pappe, another Israeli historian. One thing need to mention here, these two historians relied on their research on the Israeli official archives. They did not analyze from their own, they did not hear from someone. I also cited the book (the Jewish state). This book is written by the founder of Zionism. It was not written by someone who analyzes Zionism. I also mentioned that anyone can read the books which were written by the early Zionists themselves. So how come after all this someone, use Wikipedia to refute my claims?!!!

Again to Wikipedia, even though anyone can edite its contents, in some topics like the Israeli-Palestine issue, not anyone can edit and it is governed by lobby work. If anyone here wants to make sure about this, he/she can try to edit anti-Israeli news, you will see the editing removed after some times. If you re-edit again, they will remove it again. If you do this for several times, they will block your computer (though the IP address) from editing the news.
20:47 July 12, 2010 by aab05001
Here is an article, written by the Israeli thinker Israel Shamir about the infamous Whikipedia:

20:47 July 12, 2010 by goodbyeammar
Regarding the Swedish welfare system, I am so happy to comment on this…

The Israeli lobby here claimed that I benefit from the Swedish welfare system. In one comment, one person said I must go to Gaza. Ok. My answers will be summarized in three points as follows:

1-I get no money from the welfare system. And in case some Arab immigrants (I excluded other immigrants because no one is provoked when they benefit from the welfare system), there are lots of Arabs who pour money to the Swedish welfare system. What I mean is that those who run the small businesses like restaurants and small business. Everyone knows that the majority of them are owned by Middle Easterners. It was a research some months ago articulated that Sweden benefits very much from the small-sized businesses.

2-let's assume I get money from the welfare system, so what? Did you forget that European countries colonized the Arab countries, as well as African and Latin American states? Our benefit from the welfare system cannot be compared with what the western colonizers benefit from our countries. They took the diamonds from Africa, they took, and they killed millions of our people, and savagely massacre our population. And in Palestine, the story is even bitter. Britain gave Palestine to the Zionists to build Israel (for those who are interested to read about this, the British pledge to the Zionist is called ''Belfour declaration''). The Swedish Jews and the German and Polish Jews and other Jews took my country, Palestine and destroyed my village and expelled me to a refugee camp. After all this, you cannot complain if I benefit a little (and I don't) from the welfare system here. If Sweden and Europe pay me 100000 a month, that will never compensate the damage they did to me.

3-you said I should go back to Gaza. Well, I am not from Gaza. But you are right anyway; you mean I should go back to my country. OK. I should. I come from a village near Jaffa. In my village, there are German Jews living there, they stole the village after the expelled us from there in 1948. I am ready to go, give me my land back.

I know you won't but that does not mean I will stay here in Sweden. Our people will resist the criminal Israeli occupation and they will fight the Israeli colonization, (since armed resistance is legitimate according to the international law).
20:57 July 12, 2010 by goodbyeammar2
i give you here the results of a small reasearch i did on whikipedia. the results revealed that whikipedia is very biased towards the israeli side.

in this research i did 4 thigs:

1-selecting the main articles which are related to the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Examples:

Palestine's page and Israel's page.

Palestinian persons' pages: former president Yasser Arafat, Abu-Jihad, Salah Khalaf, George Habash, Nayef Hawatmeh,

Ahmed Yassin, Abu Ali Mustafa, Ahmad Sadat, Wadei Haddad.

Israeli Persons: Shimon Peres, Ariel Sharon, Yitzaq Shamir, Ehud Barack, Ehud Olmert, David Ben-Gurion

Other pages: King David hotel bombings, shelling of Qana, battle of Jenin, Deir Yassin massacre, Qibya massacre, Al-Dawayima massacre, Tel Aviv University

2-I analyzed the used language, the withdrawal and high lightening of the information in the articles.

3-I critically reviewed the sources of the contents.

4-I critically studied the editors' profile and history.

The results:

1-regarding the Israel and Palestine's pages:

It must be noted here that these two articles bear different names (Israel and Palestine), different contents despite of the fact that they are talking about one geographical area. There are evidences that the contents of Israel and Palestine pages reflect radically the extremist Zionist views. It is worth mentioning here that Arabs, most of the western historians and most of the Israeli historians radically disagree with such views. My major critical assessment of the two articles is roughly presented below:

a- The Jews existence in Palestine is given big spaces, ex: there is a big space covers the period of Jews colonization of Palestine which took place three thousand years ago. It must be noted that this part is relied on biblical texts. This gives an impression as the history civilization in Palestine started at that time which contradicts both the biblical and the archeological texts. In my world,

continued in the next comment
20:59 July 12, 2010 by goodbyeammar
This is an attempt to build a strong connection between Jews populations and the land of Palestine. Why? As a matter of fact, the Jews existence in the ancient Palestine as entity was not more than 400 years. Moreover, during these 400 years, Jews population co-existed with Palestinians. The events before the Jews arrival to Palestine were given very short space even though most of the today's Palestinian cities including Jerusalem were founded before the arrival of Jews people by Canaan tribes who are Semitic groups immigrated to Palestine 8000 years ago from Arabian Peninsula. It is worth mentioning here that what I have just mentioned above is something explained clearly in the Bible, Torah not to mention the archeological researches. This information is roughly mentioned in Wikipedia. The period when the Jews left is not discussed in details although it is more than 2000 years.

b-The demography of Palestine before the creation of Israel: the extremist Zionist view claims that Palestine was almost empty when the Jews immigration to Palestine started to take place in the beginning of twenty century. Although Wikipedia gives place to the words of some writers who say that Palestine was not empty during the British colonization but it is clearly shown that the Zionist claim is given more weight.

The logic refuses this as how come such a very small place like Palestine was empty and at the same time it had at that time/still 18 cities and more than 1104 villages . It must be said that this large number of cities and inhabitants in a very small place proves that the civilization in Palestine never died and it cannot be logical to claim that these cities and villages were empty! If Palestine was empty then how was it possible that Acre city was the reason for the failure of Napoleon campaign in the Middle East as he unsuccessfully besieged the city for several months. The Palestinian historical places which still stand in Jerusalem, Jaffa, Haifa, Acre, Hebron and other cities proved clearly that Palestine was extremely populated Places.

Needless to mention that the ''empty land'' theory contradicts the British sources who were the colonizer of Palestine at that time. Moreover, most of the historians including the Israeli ones (e.g. Illan Pappe, Benny Morris, Tom Segev,……..etc) affirm that Palestine was populated. The populated theory was even supported by the former Israeli internal security minister, Shomo Bin Ami.
21:00 July 12, 2010 by goodbyeammar2
c-The ethnic cleansing of Palestinians: in the Israel's article, this issue is not mention at all. In the Palestine's article it is barely covered. And when it is mentioned, the coverage adopts the extreme Zionist point of view which says that Palestinian their homes left by themselves. This view is not only rejected by Arab and most of the Western historians, but also by most of the today's Israeli historians. In fact, the Israeli debate is not about whether the ethnic cleansing of Palestine happened or not. The debate is rather whether the ethnic cleansing was morally justified or not. It is very important to say here that Wikipedia itself covers some of the 1948 events which proves the theory of ''ethnic cleansing'' in different articles . For instance there are articles about ''Deir Yassin Massacre'', ''Qibya Massacre'', ''Al Dawayima Massacre''. In fact, Wikipedia proves that the ethnic cleansing took place by such articles but it deliberately does not refer/barley mention it in Palestine and Israel's pages as less people would read the negative information about Israel by that. The ethnic cleansing is one of the crucial events which changed the Palestinian map and it is odd that is not covered.

d-''War of Independence'': Calling the war which resulted in creation of Israel in the Palestinian land and expelling most of Palestinians out of their homes as 'war of independence'. This is a very radical bias towards Israel as the slogan 'war of independence' is not even found in the United Nation's texts and it is not used by the vast majority of historians. It is almost Israeli official view.

E-withdrawal of some information: the revolutions which took place against the Jews colonization of Palestine: like events/revolutions of 1920, 1921, 1939. In these years, many people were killed and these events forced the British authority to issue what is called: white paper I and white paper Ii. These events are detailed in the united nation texts, British achieve and the Israeli and Arab text books as well. They are even detailed in other pages in Wikipedia. My understanding to it as an attempt to give an impression that Palestine was almost empty and the Zionist colonizers had no problems in 'their new land' and they were not rejected. Again, detailing these events in other pages and not to refer to them in the Palestine and Israel's pages is an attempt to make the Israeli misbehaviors not visible to the readers.

F-human rights issue: no mention for the human right violation by Israel and to the apartheid policy and the discrimination against Palestinians inside what is called today Israel. One thing must be said here that human right issues are detailed in the other articles when talking about Burma, North Korea and other countries.
21:01 July 12, 2010 by goodbyeammar
2- Regarding the articles which cover the Israeli and Palestinian persons:

The usage of ''terrorism'' almost associated with most of the Palestinian persons. In case of Israeli persons, the word terrorism is absent even though they have committed countless crimes and some of these crimes are even detailed in Wikipedia. The information which show the brutality of Israel in most cases are localized. Example: in Yasser Arafat's page, it is written that some rumors say that he died because of poison. Well that is true but this is a half truth. The rumors say that he was poisoned by Israel. Regardless whether this is true or not, the circulated rumors are talking about Israeli involvement on his death. That is not written!

3-the articles of ''battle of Jenin'' and ''Munich massacre'':

I just want to give an example about the double standards of Wikipedia editorial strategy assessing the contents of these two articles. Munich attack was an operation waged by Fateh movement in the 1970 with the aim of kidnapping Israeli athletic and exchange them with Palestinian prisoners. As a result of the operation, 11 Israeli athletic were killed. Palestinian argued that they never had the intention to kill the athletics and they died because of shooting exchange with the German authorities. And also Palestinians see Israelis as occupants of their land . Wikipedia presented the attack as massacre and reputedly brands Palestinians in this article as terrorists. On the other hand, in Jenin 2002, Israel leveled the jenin refugee camps to the ground and killed and injured hundreds and denied journalists access to the camp. Despite of all what Israel did, Wikipedia called it battle, not massacre. (There are many examples like this in Wikipedia).

4- The article about Tel Aviv University: this university was established on the ruins of Palestinian. In the article, that is written but all what I can say it is used a very friendly language towards Israel.

5- Articles list some Israeli massacres before and during 1948 war: such as ''Deir Yassein Massacre'', ''Qibla Massacre'', ''Al Dawaima Massacre'', Bombing of King David'': in these articles, the Israeli atrocities are presented quite fairly even thought there are some attempts to localize the Israeli brutalities.

6- sources: they are mostly Israelis, Americans and British which mean westerners. Very little attention is paid to the Palestinian sources. What deserves attention here is that the used western sources are considered to be radically anti-Arabs/anti-Palestinians or conservatives.


Yasser Arafat's page:

Arab sources: 17

Western sources including the Israeli ones: 101

In Ahmed Yassin's article:

Arab sources: 1

Western sources: 32

Palestine's article:

Arab sources: 14

Western sources:225
21:02 July 12, 2010 by goodbyeammar2
7- Some pages are not editable: like Palestine, Israel, Yasser Arafat. This indicates deliberate control of contents.

6-Editors: there are something called ''administration editors''. They are privileged editors, have the ability to block any user. Although it is true that anyone can edit most of the Wikipedia pages but this claim remains not true because the administrative editors can be stumbling blocks for changes. In practical words: you can edit, then they delete what you add, then you do it again and they again erase your input. If this happens more than 3 times, you will be blocked by the administrative editors! In case of Palestine, not surprisingly, most of the administrative editors are either Israelis or Americans. i noticed that they are watching the contents for 24 hours. If you edit anything which is not welcomed by the administrative editors, it will be deleted with matter of minutes. If this means anything, it will be that Wikipedia is systematically biased concerning the Israeli -Palestine context.

At last:

I attempt to summarize the Wikipedia bias concerning Israeli-Palestine context in two points:

1-''pretending neutrality'': like giving weights to views which are not widely spread. Example: if someone argues that the sun rise from the west, then this opinion should not be given as same weight as to the opinion which says that sun rise from east. We hardly hear someone say that the sun rise from the west. Wikipedia systematically gives more weights to the views which favor the Israeli side.

2-it is interesting to know that, despite of the biased towards Israel but we can find in Wikipedia many anti-Israeli contents. However, these anti Israeli contents are made to be unreachable for those who wish to have an overview about Palestine Israeli conflict. Example: the basic search will begin with: Israel and Palestine. On these pages, the reality of Israeli creation and occupation is not clearly presented. Only those who know about the massacres will visit articles like: Deir Yassin massacre or Qibya massacre for example.

21:17 July 12, 2010 by Uncle
Oh, sorry, I just finished counting the money I got from Stockholm and now I took a break before I start counting the golden bricks provided by the Mossad.

If not the money, I would not imagine myself standing on the side of Jews and Israel! Who could stand on the side of people who got more Nobel Prizes per capita than any other people and not on the side of people that increased rape statistics by 4 times in Europe? How could I support people who have advanced in nano technology and released computer processors in a faster pace than statistical increase of committed crimes in Sweden (1 convict per 3000 swedes, but 1 convict per 30 muslim immigrants)?

How could I not be on the side of people who get married to 9 years old girls, circumsice them at the age of 12, cut off hands publicly, produce suicide bombers and get into armed conflict 100% of the times, their population goes over 20% ANYWHERE? If not the money, how could I stand on the side of a country that has largest immigration rate per capita in the world and not on the side of countries from which 20 million left only to Europe, whereas tens of millions were refused entry?

How could I not adore people who slam any country into poverty (if not supported by oil) and get 50% of their population wear rags that cover them? How could I not love religion that stopped producing ideas at 11th century?

Uuuf, what a luck that I am paid these millions, because otherwise, it would be so hard not to take a side of the truly peaceful, humane, socially advanced and democratic people.


I agree. Thanks God, these cute guests in this country are so aggressive that they repel normal swedes.
21:38 July 12, 2010 by goodbyeammar2
good for you...so you can support the israeli occupation...that is enough!

we are involved in armed conflicts because countries like USA and 'Israel' are occupying our lands and exploiting our oil...
22:39 July 12, 2010 by Andersson
@uncle...On 12th July 1948 Lieutenant Colonel Yitzhak Rabin signed an order that "The residents of Lydda must be expelled quickly without attention to age."... and later on Yitzhak Rabin won peace nobel prize... so you are to this side... don't you think that you are an hypocrate.
23:13 July 12, 2010 by goodbyeammar2
Here are more criminal zionist qoutes. I write them with references:

'' I support compulsory transfer, I don't see in it anything immoral'' David Ben-Gurion in 1938. (Ben-Ami: 2006: 32).

Yossef Weitz, the head of settlement department of the Jews national fund wrote in 1940 in his Dairy ''the only solution is to transfer the Arabs {Palestinian} from here to neighboring countries. Not a single village or a single tribe must be left out'' (Pappe: 2006: 62).

Aharon Zisling, a Zionist leader said: ''I do not deny our moral right to propose population transfer'' (Finkelstein: 1995:16).

Netenyahu said a statement in an interview was granted to him by The Washington Post on 24 October 2009, which if someone else would have said it, he or she, will be answered with a widespread condemnation: '' Jews come here and Palestinians will go there. So choose. That's the basis of a solution'' .

(source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/23/AR2009102303591.html)

Admittedly, Shlomo Ben-Ami wrote that ''Nobel Jewish dream of statehood was stained for ever by a major injustice committed against the Palestinians and the Jewish state was born in sin'' (Ben-Ami: 2006: 48).

Morris (2000:198) mentioned that when the Jewish military units Hagana and Palmah attacked the Palestinian villages around Haifa on 31 December 1947, they order to ''kill a maximal number of adult males, destroy furniture, .etc.''.

According to Pappe, different plans were designed to expel Palestinian out of their homes. On 10 March, 1948, a comprehensive plan, codenamed as Dalet (D), was adopted in which, military operations will be carried out in the following manners: ''either by destroying villages……or by mounting combing and control operations according to the following guidelines: in case of resistance, the armed forces must be wiped out and population expelled outside the borders of the state'' (Pappe: 2006: 39).

In Acre city, Israeli loudspeakers were calling ''surrender or commit suicide, we will destroy you to the last man'' (Ibid: 100).

In Haifa city, the Israeli archives revealed that Mordechai Maklef, the Zionist officer who orchestrated the disposition of Palestinians in Haifa, gave an order to ''kill any Arab [Palestinians] you encounter, torch all inflammable objects and force doors open with expulsions''(Pappe:2006:95).

In 1949, Israel occupied two Palestinian cities al-Lydd and Ramla, and killed hundreds of its residents before it depopulated the rest. The correspondent of New York Herald Tribune reported seeing ''the crops of Arab men, women and even children strewn about in the wake of the ruthlessly brilliant charge'' (Khalidi: 2006: 192).
00:12 July 13, 2010 by saab
@goodbyeammar numbers one and two

Take some ativan or at least a beta blocker. As an Israeli agent, I care about you. I do not want to see you have an intracerebral hemorrhage but me thinks you are heading in that direction.

Actually, the fact that I am taking money from Israel would be news to my wife who would very much want to partake in that largess. We need a new washing machine. I think our current one was made in China and those bastards knew that I was an Israeli agent and put inside a mini self destruct timer. Darn.

Now I have not read your rants in full yet, because we know that they were paid for by friends, family and offspring of the homosexual Arafat, the blustering Nasser, the diabetic Assad. Full disclosure requires that you tell us how much money the Saudi king pays you? Are you on a monthly retainer? Do you declare it as income or deposit it in a bank account in Switzerland. (Psst, ammar, that bank is probably owned by a .... Jew!).

Proposal: Let's compare notes and maybe we can go to the highest bidder together. Frankly, I am looking forward to ranting like you. I always wanted to sound like a schizophrenic.

Today's questions:

Did you celebrate on 9-11?

Do you own a poster of Osama bin Laden?

Do you listen to old recordings of the Mufti of Jerusalem and dream of the good old days?

Do you take medication whenever the hallucinations become just a little bit too much?

Aside from Hollywood, the banks, Palestine, the US government, Wall Street, and the Trilateral Commission, do the Jews also own your silverware?

Just asking.
06:41 July 13, 2010 by goodbyeammar2

You are an interesting case, really! You said you did not read my full comments, but the point here is how come you respond to my comments if you did not fully read them?!

Now you complain too much about me saying that the Israeli lobby is filling any news about the so-called Israeli-Palestine conflict. In fact, the work of the Israeli lobbies is something admitted by the Israeli officials as well as in academia.

For any reader does not believe in this, you can make sure about this by doing the followings:

1-you can contact any teacher in any media and journalism school in any university in the western world. Academia stresses on the following facts: a) there is a powerful Israeli information management, produce media materials, organize trips, and invite journalists, and sometimes threatening them. B) The second fact which is stressed on academia is that the Palestinian media management is very weak, and the media activism in Palestine is individual. So I am not paid from any one, and by the way you mentioned that I am paid by Arafat and Abdu-Nasser. These people are dead, and dead people cannot pay money.

2-the second thing you can do is to read the academic research about the so-called Israeli-Palestine conflict. All the academic research about the media coverage reveals pro-Israeli media bias in the western countries and despite of this bias, the vast majority of the response to the media coverage comes from the pro-Israeli audience. The researchers explain the intensity of the pro-Israeli media response as the Israelis are attempting to influence the media coverage. I know some might say that some web sites claim that the media is anti-Israeli. One thing must be known here, these web sites are pro-Israeli web sites and attempt to pressurizing the media by complaining all the time. Of course there are also pro-Palestine web sites which argue that the media is anti-Palestinians. Let us leave all the web sites because they are not conducting academic research. What only counts here is the academic research. All academic researches reveal pro-Israeli media bias. How to check that? I said you can contact teachers, and you can also read some academic books about this. I give here some examples:

• 1-book entitled ''bad news from Israel'' (2004) a detailed research about the British media coverage of the so-called Israeli-Palestine conflict. It revealed radical bias towards the Israeli side.

• 2- a very important book to read is :Dunsky, Marda (2008) Pens and Swords: How the American Mainstream Media Report The Israeli Palestine Conflict New York: Columbia University Press.( in this book, you will find four researches about the American media coverage of the so-called Israeli-Palestine conflict.
06:42 July 13, 2010 by goodbyeammar
• 3- Manning, Peter (2006) ´´Australian Imagining Islam´´ in Poole, Elizabeth. and Richardson, John E. (ed.) Muslims and the News Media. London: Tauris (research about the Australian media).

• 4- Hannerz, Ulf. (2004) Foreign News: Exploring the World of Foreign Correspondents Chicago: University of Chicago Press. (This is for a Swedish researcher who lectures in Stockholm University. The author argues that Israel monitors the media through its embassies

• 5-You can search about any academic research about the so-called Israeli-Palestine conflict, and you will find the same result: pro-Israeli media bias. Search for doctoral and master thesis.

3-the third method to know about the Israeli lobby is to contact journalists and editors and ask them personally. They all would say that the pro-Israeli audience responds to the media massively. You can contact the DN or SVD , Aftonbladet correspondents and editors who responsible for the Middle Eastern news. all will tell you the same thing I say. You can try anyway if you don't trust me!

4-the forth method to educate yourself about the Israeli lobbies is to follow the Israeli news. The Israeli officials admitted hiring skilled workers to make the Israeli image better in the eyes of people. Here is an example, reported by the British newspaper, the Guardian:


Regarding your comment about Arafat, you said that he is homosexual! Ok, here again, you take the advantage of the people's ignorance about the Middle East culture. In the Middle East, man can kiss a man in the greeting. Arafat was not homosexual, a fact you know! But I know you hate him because he resisted the criminal Israeli occupation of Palestine. Arafat was a great man who devoted all his life to fight to his people and to abolish the criminal and terrorist Israeli occupation of Palestine. Of course the Israelis don't like him and they will never like anyone resist their criminal regime. No wonder! It is a classical colonial attitude. Hitler considered the French, Danish and Norwegian resistance as terrorist! The apartheid regime considers Nilsson Mandela as terrorist. So, I am not surprised when a pro-Israeli occupation attacks the leader of Palestinian resistance.
13:37 July 13, 2010 by Andersson
@goodbyesummer... well said.
15:01 July 13, 2010 by Uncle
goodbyeammar. I do not even read through your constant and massive babbling. If you say a lot of stuff, it does not make it true. It just makes it boring. What is interesting is that even here you manage to cheat the system by adding youself some number and start spamming this forum.

And then of course you will start blaming Israel in banning you from another internet based service. (Since Israel apparently stole your oil, you geological genius).

As for muslims getting into conflicts, Israel and US are hardly guilty in Kashmir, Sudan, Somali, Black September, Kurd resistance, China, Phillipines, Yemenese war, conflicts between Hezbollah and the palestinians, Chad, invasion of Kuwait, Afghanistan against USSR, Chechnya, Dagestan, hunt of Iranian opposition in Europe etc.

As for palestinians they are statistically died more from their fellow arab hand, than from the jewish one. It is just that ..itching about dictatorships is not interesting and can be dangerous if one opens ones mouth too loud.

And still Jews are better in sex!
04:05 July 15, 2010 by lastdayspreacher
This entire Article is based on the Christian mis-interpretation of the Scriptures! If they were clearly interpreted this article would not exist!
07:53 July 16, 2010 by carahan
The Kabbalistic text from the 1200s needs some context though. The Rabbi who wrote that text was a rival of Maimonides. Maimonides was brilliant in regard to most things, doctor, rabbi, scholar, scientist, and philosopher. However, he was also a nasty misogynist who hated women.

I don't remember if he ever got married, a huge taboo for Jews.

The intention of that Kabbalist text by the rival rabbi was to argue within the Jewish community that Maimonides' view is not right and does not represent the role of women in Judaism all the way back in the 1200s.
08:51 July 16, 2010 by SarahRF
Could it be that Jews are better at sex because they understand a certain book in the Old Testament better than Christians do?

The Song of Songs, or Song of Solomon, is all about sex. I've heard Jewish men are not allowed to read it until they're 1) married or 2) 30 years old. It is so sensual in some places that the rabbis were afraid if young boys read it, they'd become uber horny. Jews understand this book to be about sex and about how God intended it to be.

Christians on the other hand are divided about this. The majority of Christians have been taught that Song of Songs is about the relationship between God and his church. "You can't have sex in the Bible, sex is evil!" is where it all started. But more and more Christians are buying into the idea that the book is about sex between a man and his wife, how it should be for pleasure as well as childbearing, and how it's supposed to be good, because God made it that way.

Find an online version of the book and read it for yourself. Also, find a commentary ("A song for lovers", forgot the author, is a good one!) and read it too, it'll explain a lot of the metaphors and euphemisms. Once you understand those, you'll understand this article much much better.
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