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Swedes urged to stop work in immigrant demo

Peter Vinthagen Simpson · 16 Sep 2010, 13:32

Published: 16 Sep 2010 13:32 GMT+02:00

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Rasti has opened a Facebook page entitled "Inga Invandrare" (No immigrants) in a call to Swedes with an immigrant background to protest against "dark forces that want to scare us about immigrants."

"I want to remind Sweden of all the good things that immigrants contribute with. That we are more than just thieves, rapists and trouble-makers," Rasti told the Aftonbladet daily.

Rasti decided to act as opinion polls ahead of the September 19th general election started to indicate that the anti-immigrant Sweden Democrats might claim seats in parliament.

Rusti drawed parallels with the 1991 election, when Ny Demokrati gained seats in parliament on an anti-immigrant ticket as well as the so-called Laserman killings of immigrants in Sweden.

The campaign is designed to take a stand against what Rusti, and the now 25,000 members of the Inga Invandrare Facebook page, as "vibes of 1991" and underline just how much poorer Sweden would be without its cultural and ethnic diversity.

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"Most of us our normal people, pay tax, contribute with culture, drive busses, do whatever," he told the newspaper.

Any "ethnic Swedes" that wish to take part in a supporting capacity are also welcome, Rusti confirmed, adding that in reality dividing the society into two groups is the last of his intentions.

Peter Vinthagen Simpson (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

14:09 September 16, 2010 by The Rabbi
Its worse than 1991, as SD is bigger and have better grass-roots throughout Sweden.
14:34 September 16, 2010 by Toffee_apple
While I admire Rasti for initiating such a campaign, it sadly won't make an ounce of difference. There have been plenty of campaigns like this before and nothing changes. Remember a few years ago when the Metro newspaper held its own thing for a week? They published stories and gave out pin-on buttons. What good did it do?? Something far more drastic needs to be done.
15:04 September 16, 2010 by vb74
Anybody who make fun of the Poles for being the dumbest people in Europe clearly doesn't know about the Swedish immigration policies, it just couldn't get any stupider.
15:18 September 16, 2010 by spo10
more power to you Damon Rasti!!!
15:29 September 16, 2010 by dobermann
I am temporary immigrant here.From my point of view, immigration is a worst thing ever happend to Sweden. Yes, I am happy, that I have a work(even if I get lower wage), but if I have a job, it means, that some swedish guy has lost it..And the biggest problem is those people who live completely from social money.. It could be easy to change the situation, jus a few new laws.. Most of the people from eatern europe come to work here, they don't need any benefits, unions and other goods things, but every one knows who come here just to live from benefits with no intetion to get a job. Do not give any benefits for immigransts for at leats 10-20 years, then they will undrerstand what you mean..
15:39 September 16, 2010 by flintis
Unfortunately not all immigrants make a positive solution

Hur skulle sverige vara utan invandrare?

Let me think, a bit like it was in the 1960's, peaceful, maybe a little boring, probably have the lowest crime rate in Europe, none to very little unemployment, a neo-communist(socialist)state, full of beautiful blonde blue eyed women gagging for it
16:09 September 16, 2010 by Uncle
Truth, fluntis. Truth.
16:12 September 16, 2010 by calebian22
"That we are more than just thieves, rapists and trouble-makers,"

So immigrants are that and more? That is funny.
16:14 September 16, 2010 by gorgepir
Comments like flintis's comments are exactly why Sweden has never been able to utilize foreigners like other countries have. You should look at some successful examples at how useful it is to have people with different set of skills and backgrounds. Or you could also check out all the research that has been done on the strengths (and weaknesses) of having diversity in a society. Of course older Swedes would like to have a completely homogeneous society, but that is because they are too old to understand our new world. Stuff changes, and people don't.

I do find it ironic that the anger and frustration from a choice that Swede's themselves made (to accept immigrants into their society) is somehow being taken on the foreigners they "invited".

If you were going to hate on them, why did you let them in in the first place? Needed to have some laughs? Or did you just wanted to be able to point at someone and blame stuff on them? Did you tell this to those who were immigrating at the time that the only reason we want you here is to make fun of you and blame societies problems on you?
16:35 September 16, 2010 by flintis
@calebian22 & gorgepir, no need to get your knickers in a twist, I was just giving my opinion of how I thought Sweden would be without the immigrant population.

@gorgepir: Sweden utilises a lot of foreigners, at least those of us that want to be utilised,

#foreigners they "invited". & why did you let them in in the first place? # You'll find that it wasn't mr & mrs Svensson Svensson that "invited" the foreigners.

The immigration to Sweden started with the Italians in the 1950's, funnily enough they managed to "intigrate" & did'nt start building Rome in Sweden.

Look at statistics % of Swedes & % of "immigrants" in the prisons or convicted of offences.
16:39 September 16, 2010 by Tall swede
This will show those damn racists. They always complain that immigrants dont work and just use the swedish social system. To show them how wrong they are those immigrants who actually work wont work either! Ha, that will show them!
16:44 September 16, 2010 by hpunlimited
This kind of action only makes things worse. The Swedish tribe are entitled to be themselves and keep their country. We immigrants shouldn't try and change them for our own needs, we need to adapt to them while maintaining our own heritage. I do not understand some of the other immigrants that thinks that they can force the Swedes to give up eating pork etc.

How would it look if a Swede moved to the US and forced them to give up hamburgers? or else they are racist?

He would get shot and buried in a unmarked grave!!
16:52 September 16, 2010 by PorkForEveryone
**** "The immigration to Sweden started with the Italians in the 1950's, funnily enough they managed to "intigrate" & did'nt start building Rome in Sweden. ****

Not only did they not try building Rome here (not necessarily a bad thing if you have visited beautiful Rome) but they didnt have 10 kids and live off social payments nor did they want to build pointy stupid structures and shout at the top of their lungs from them... nor try to change people from eating "certain meats"... nor lived among (for years) the Swedes and then talk about how they are lacking and should change to suit them.

Then again, they didnt believe that their god commands that everyone who does not have their same beliefs are infidels and should be killed.
16:53 September 16, 2010 by Jes
@ dober mann ,

do you realize how silly your comment is ?

If you got a job and "some Swedish guy lost it" you are a "problem" ; if you lived on welfare , you are a "problem" .

If you come to Sweden for love and depend on your woman or man , you are a "pest"

As long as you stay in Sweden on temporally terms or not , you are a "problem" .

Unless you are just telling half of your real status , you are not qualified to jugde any other immigrant .

BTW : have your heard what typical racist Swede think of eastern Europeans ?

Do you know what the Swedes who work in building and constraction sector think about eastern Europeans ?

Man , how naive are you !
17:09 September 16, 2010 by sebseb
People who are going to vote for SD are for most of them white swedes uneducated on the social welfare and insecure elderly.

The same party with the same organisation would get over 20% votes in the USA. Hopefully, it will not reach 4% in Sweden.
17:12 September 16, 2010 by calebian22

No twisted knickers, just commenting on his verbage. Yes, we are thieves rapists and troublemakers, but ignore all that; we are so much more! If I could vote in Sweden, I would vote against myself and vote Sweden Democrat.
17:36 September 16, 2010 by vladd777
1982 - the time when people left their cars unlocked all night, washing hanging on the line all night, bicycles out for weeks unlocked, very seldom reading of women getting raped, able to stroll thru town at all hours without fear, able to go away for a week or two without having to worry about the house being burgled.

Those were good times then!
17:42 September 16, 2010 by eZee.se
I dont really care for SD's hardline stance, but to be honest if I too couldn't go into certain parts of my own country - I would be p!ssed as well.

For example: in Stockholm most Swedes are almost scared to go into Rinkeby, and I'm not even talking about at night. I can name you 3 other places off the top of my head.

Malmo has its own "little neighborhood" that needs no mentioning as its quite regularly in the papers - even cops don't go there without an escort.

There is no denying that Sweden has changed after the influx of foreigners - and quite negatively at that (read vladd777's comment above)
17:42 September 16, 2010 by glamelixir

I couldn't agree more.

Immigration politics need a revision, we can all agree on that. I even think that it would help those of us who are willing to integrate and be a part of this society paying taxes and working giving value to our skills and not letting us only clean toillets even though we are more educated than most competing in the job market.

I sometimes read between the lines that people are actually complaining about the huge immigration of muslim communities that are trying to impose their lifestyle in the new country, but as nobody has the guts to say as pointing at refugees would be heartless, they find it lighter to say immigrants.

Sometimes I am also surprised to see that nobody talks about EU immigrants with good education. It is as we don't exist, we are lost in the middle of nowhere.

I also wanted to add that my husband has SWEDISH friends who have never worked in their lives. Only lived on socialbidrag, and they are SWEDISH, 100% svensson svensson.

I have worked as a waitress (even though I was a high excecutive back home), I didn't cash my alfa kassan when I got unemployed because I prefered to go and work for free (and you are not allowed to cash it as that can be consider a praktik) and lived from my savings. Still people point out immigrants as the problem.

Everything is messy, nobody talks about things and those who dare to drop the topic are so stupid (SD) that they get shut down under discrimination accusations. Their main problem is that they don't even have their ideas clear and they can't talk basically.
17:45 September 16, 2010 by Argentina84
People remember that we "invandrarna" are also human beings :)

Someone once told me that I was "stealing" their job here in Sweden. That's not 100% accurate: Inmigrants do take jobs that less competent Swedes could have instead, but inmigrants also "create" many jobs (SFI teachers, the need for more dagis teachers and more doctors, for example) Start to look at the bright side!

Those who support racistic parties are nothing but ignorants.
18:08 September 16, 2010 by cowboykodp
OOOH those Mooslems are taking over. Forcing everyone to abide by sharia law, not eat pork, bomb us, rape us, rob us.....

You people are so pitiful. Do you realize how retarded you all sound? (no offence to retarded people)

Get over yourselves. Your rhetoric doesn't seem to be working and only serves to alienate yourselves, as evident in Stockholm, Malmo, Goteborg,...

Remember hurt people, hurt people. That is not the world I want, but obviously you people do. Keep it up..!!
18:08 September 16, 2010 by A SAFARI
Like i will always tell my friends,racists are people who do not understand how the society works.They hate or have "problem" with a certain race but eat ,use

what comes and are produced from such a continent/part of the world or race.They listen ,watch foreign music ,movies and so on.Some even act like those people they hate and at the end of the day who is fooling who? Why don't the so called racists just decide not to use or eat what comes from those part of the world and let's see what will happen?
18:16 September 16, 2010 by calebian22
There is an immigrant problem here in Sweden. No one will talk about it, no one will discuss it. This is why the Sweden democrats are gaining strength. If one of the coalitions had the guts to responsibly talk about the problems and discuss real solutions(no matter how tough they might be), there would be no need to shed light on the problem by voting for the Sweden democrats. When they enter the Riksdag, the major parties better listen up and discuss, or they will grow even larger in 2014.
18:16 September 16, 2010 by Jes
" Those were good times then" !

"Swedish people fear to go to Linkeby" !

Can Olof Palmer say that ?

Was he shot in Linkeby by Somaliana ?
18:30 September 16, 2010 by cowboykodp

I agree with you 100% that there is a problem, however one cannot carpet bomb a neighborhood just because there is a sick cat in one house in that neighborhood.

How many immigrants have you talked to and asked about their concerns? Asked why its hard for them to integrate better? How can we help?

Voting in a party who right off the bat HATES, does not serve the purpose we all care about. Calling people names and accusing a group of people about a whole variety of things, does not help anyone.
18:36 September 16, 2010 by ycover
If only Swedes knew how much they needed immigration in the first place they would shut up and stop complaining. First of all, there is a middle point to this ongoing discussion about immigration which, to my understanding, is mainly concerned about immigration from the Muslim world. Both Swedes and immigrants are both wrong and right and therefore all these absurd generalizations lack a strong arguments.

Sweden needed immigration given its declining rate in population growth. Anyone that has studied economics or social studies, or for that matter, ever read about important things, would know that any country with a positive production growth rate but a declining population rate will eventually come to a shortage of labour supply and thus will be unable to keep up of with production. So, in short, Sweden needed immigration.

The problem has been however that many of this immigrants come from countries where the culture is as different as if they were coming from a different planet. Sweden is one of the most liberal and progressive countries in the world while many Islamic-populated countries are more conservative, in any way you want to look at it (politically, religiously, economically). Therefore, this clash had to happen.

It is impossible to ask people to change over night their entire belief and behavior in order to integrate in society just because "they are doing you a favor" (as many Swedes perceive immigrants given their refugee status). So basically is like trying to mix water and oil....

I believe you cannot blame Swedes for disliking immigration nor can you blame immigrants for disliking Swedes. Both parties have their extremists and that will forever be a problem.

The Swedish government needs to make more efforts to help immigrants integrate. If you look to a country like the Netherlands you would see the difference. In Holland they have very strict policies for integration and therefore they had tackled the problem better. They do however continue to have problems because it is just natural there is no Utopia.
18:40 September 16, 2010 by bolababu
"I am not a racist, i just believe in the purity of race", ..thats what one of my neighbors said to me the other day. I have a lot of Swedish friends and a Swedish wife but that does not undermine the fact that racism is extremely prevalent in Sweden. I even respect the Germans more for having the guts to show it, not smiling at me in the open and hating me behind closed doors. You take a job, Swedes sit on their ass and complain about there not being enough jobs to go around, you don't take a job, Swedes complain about you depending on the system, in all my 3 years here, i have only paid tax, never got a penny from the system but how many Swedes care to know this before hating on me? ..I am yet to meet even one.
18:46 September 16, 2010 by dobermann

Yes I know.. I am not naive ..Don't you think I don't see people stearing at me when I talk in my own language, don't you think I can't see face expressions of swedish people when I tell them, that I don't speak swedish language? Yes I am eastern european, and I know that people don't like us(and I know why). I understand swedish construction workers who lost theyr jobs because of cheaper workforce from eastern europen.That's why I said, that immigrants do not have any positive effect to sweden(exception could be done only for highest level workforse, for example scientists and certain type specialists who can't be prepared in Sweden)
19:10 September 16, 2010 by Jes
@dober mann , maybe it is a language problem - - but your comment left me with the impression that you were saying that eastern europeans are not part of the immigration problen in Sweden .

You removed yourself from the "accused "immigrants under the claim that you in Sweden on temporaly terms , that you work and don`t live on welafe like the rest of those immigrants .

You proposed change of law to solve the problem . I wondered if you wanted the law to forbid the importation of cheap labourers from eastern Europe or not .

You also forgot to say what you have just said in your latest comment , i.e , that , to a racist , you too , are a problem .

For that miss , I suspected that you must be naive or something else .
19:24 September 16, 2010 by calebian22

If the other major parties say, okay the Sweden democrats are too extreme, but maybe we can do, A, B and C then there will be progress. A win for the Sweden Democrats should be a signal that there are policy problems that need to be fixed in Sweden. Right now there is diddly being discussed because of fear of being called a bigot, racist or Nazi. How facing the problem of integration makes one a bigot is something that I can't understand, not now or ever, but apparently the major parties would rather ignore the problem in the hopes it will go away.
19:37 September 16, 2010 by Uncle

"Comments like flintis's comments are exactly why Sweden has never been able to utilize foreigners like other countries have"

Riiiight... Like the fully integrated Mexicans and Puerto-Ricans in the US.. Or like muslims in Germany who caused the rise of Geert Wilders. Maybe in Germany? There 1 working german fully sponsors 3 muslim/christian-african immigrants? Or hold on, maybe Canada, that has strict immigration rules and strongly limits immigration? Or Japan that accepts nobody at all? Perhaps Australia, that has education requirements and carefully calculated quotas?

Perhaps France, that has a little bit rioting sometimes with nice burning of cars?

Yep. So many countries with fully integrated Muslim immigrants.... Hey, in Somali and Sudan they integrated quite well...
19:59 September 16, 2010 by cowboykodp

This argument about why the SD are called racist, bigots and nazi's has been discussed on this forum to nauseum. We all obviously follow the news.

The difference is you and your concerns are valid, while people like uncle just hate, because of reasons only clear to them.

So yes, these main parties should talk about immigration. However, they should not sink so low as to accuse groups of people of things.

a mature argument is " How can we better our country, and help people integrate and contribute" as opposed to immature arguments which needs no repeating.
20:04 September 16, 2010 by calebian22

The Sweden democrats are the only ones discussing the problems with immigration. You might not like what they are saying, but to say that there are not problems with immigrant groups is ignoring reality. No other party is discussing the elephant in the room. They will be a kick in the pants to the other parties when they enter the Riksdag. Then maybe something constructive will happen.
20:19 September 16, 2010 by vladd777
Jes-Palme was a controversial politician not your everyday, average citizen. I'm not saying crime never happened but it was at a very low ebb at that time.

And yes i do get that same paranoid feeling i used to get when i lived in South Africa where one hardly ever went out alone in the evening.

Until a few years ago i never got that negative vibe here.
20:22 September 16, 2010 by cowboykodp

Again you are 100% correct. I along with 95% of Swedes do not like what they are saying.

I also don't think their message will be heard when and if they get into government. They are far too extreme and as a result anything they propose will most probably be ignored. So we are back to square one.

As far as the "Immigrant Groups" you mentioned, I am willing to bet you are not speaking from first hand experience. So, I am sorry, I just cant take your evaluations seriously. You can cite as many statistics as you can find, but as you said yourself "All Stats are Lies, because they contain some truth" ...or something to that effect?
20:28 September 16, 2010 by Jes
@calebian 22 does not differenciate between accusing and discussing .

But then , a fool can see an elephant in the room - - and , to him, that room becomes a forest .
20:38 September 16, 2010 by Toffee_apple
@PorkForEveryone and Uncle: I agree 100%

@Argentina84: I agree with you that immigrants create jobs but fact doesn't really apply to Sweden as it would in other Western countries. The fact of the matter is that there are too many people who come here without the intention to work and instead live on welfare. They make even more money the more children they have. Middle Eastern people are especially know to do this. Just think about it: a person who works hard in their country of origin and gets paid, but then when they come to Sweden they discover they can get even more money by not working and receiving welfare. Furthermore, they know plenty of others who come from the same country/region who sit on welfare and barnbidrag for the same reasons, so why should they feel any shame? As an immigrant who works and contributes to Swedish society this even makes me mad. In a lot of other western countries the welfare is much lower and harder to get, so immigrants usually at least try to get jobs. The problem with Swedes is that they put all immigrants into one basket. That's what makes them so ignorant.

Personally, I really understand why far-right groups are gaining support all over Europe. Just look at the Netherlands, France, Demark and Austria and the increased support for their far-right groups. Also, what about Belgium's new policy on the burqua and Switzerland prohibiting the construction of any more minarets. These issues surround muslims, not immigrants in general. Even Australians are fed up with how muslims are trying to change rules to suit them. Just this week there's a big story about an event at a swimming pool to be held where all faiths/cultures are welcome, as long as everyone covers up from the shoulders down so the muslims are made to feel welcome! Far-right groups may be extreme and might not get anywhere but governments need to look at why these groups are popping up everywhere.
20:48 September 16, 2010 by cowboykodp
@Toffee Rotten Apple

So you seriously think and believe that people immigrate to Sweden because they have no intention of working and instead want to live on welfare.

Are you completely baked???

People immigrate to better their lives. They want to work and contribute, they want to belong and be a part of society. Its people like you who put up barriers as opposed to help open doors.

Wow, you really are a Rotten Apple. People like you make me sick.
20:55 September 16, 2010 by Artificial Intelligence
Like seriously, whats with Swedes and immigrants? Don't they migrate to other countries? Haha...just asking though because i dn't seem to comprehend!
21:14 September 16, 2010 by Jes
@Toffe-apple , you are an ignorant person accusing others of ignorence .

Why don`t you first educated yourself before offering your opinions ?

Who told you that welfare is eazy to get ? and how much monet are we talking about - - -- 2700 kr. for a single person per month can make someone richer than he could be if he worked ?

Some of the things you say make me laugh a little .

Okay , you claim to work and contribute to whatever , blah blah . But do you go around with a sticker on your fore-head to show these SD devils that you are different from their targeted immigrants ?

If you are an immigrant , please stay away from throwing blame about . You have no idea which immigrant has a job or who doesn`t
22:07 September 16, 2010 by calebian22

If the Sweden Dems are elected into the Riksdag they will be heard. By publicity alone, their presence there will force the ruling coalition to address immigration. I am not saying that kicking out the immigrants, the refugees, whatever, is the solution. That is unrealistic on so many levels, to not even mention the level of bigotry that would entail. However, because of the extremely societally liberal policies in regards to immigration that have been in effect for so long, an extreme conservative counter balance is needed in order to bring the pendulum back into the "reasonable" middle. When was the last time you saw seesaw on playground function without two weights on each side? Politics are no different.

My favorite quote is by Mark Twain, "There are lies, damn lies and then they are statistics." Statistics can be manipulated easily, however, one has to lend some credibility to them, while at the same time being a little skeptical. Generally I tend to lean toward more skepticism.


Which parties are discussing the problems associated with immigration in Sweden, in practical terms? Discussion is good. Accusations are not, but they are the only game in town right now. Continuing on with the status quo and thinking there are no problems in the immigrant community is foolish. Read my posts and try to understand, that the Sweden Dems are necessary right now. As soon as more moderate politicians start talking about immigration, they will be marginalized once again.
22:14 September 16, 2010 by Uncle

You are trying to throw EVERY immigrant in the pot of this definition "immigrants"... the one that is said by every swede with caution and with a full meaning of a very specific kind of immigrants.

Actually indian, korean, east european, chinese and western immigrants have proved that they can actually learn the language, find work and integrate within the Swedish society WHILE maintaining their culture and talking foreign language to their kids...

If one is not completely "ignorent" (quoted), one understands that the discussion is of a VERY specific kind of an immigrant. The kind that builds ghettos, the kind that actually increases the crime rate and the kind that demands a lot of attention by rioting once in a while. YOU are welcome to speculate in regards to which kind I am talking about.

Now, cowboy here is even less sophisticated than you, who are throwing slogans about "we are all the same"...

Cowboy screams about total and complete hate towards everything that is moving... SD hates, Uncle hates, any supporter of a suggestion that there is a real integration problem hates... everyone who would not like to accept with open arms 100% of the population of Islamabad and Mogadishu is a hater and a Nazi.

I suppose that is why he is being mostly ignored.
22:21 September 16, 2010 by know
Unfortunately more than 50% of immigrants are liar, thieves, and trouble-makers
22:44 September 16, 2010 by cowboykodp
Oh, I think I hurt Uncle's feelings.

"If it quacks like a duck it must be a duck."

I guess me and 95% + of the Swedes who can vote are completely wrong about SD.

Give it up. "You have been weighed, you have been measured, and have been found wanting."
23:05 September 16, 2010 by shiplu
kick out those immigrants those dont love sweden..... have no respect of swdish culture ........

But unfortunately they are getting more benefit from those who (immigrants) are loving Sweden & respect Swedish culture .....
23:32 September 16, 2010 by seagull
I would never vote SD, but I do think they are important.

Immigrants ARE important (I am one too) BUT. I am here to blend into swedish society and my kids will become normal swedish kids. Those who come here and try to bully the government and councils into adopting their own cultural values should leave and find a more suitable place to live (The idiots who are threatening the very ground law of freedom of speech)...That does not help Sweden.

Those who come here to work on the black market should be arrested and sent home. (A neighbour to us had at least a months work done by a bunch of folk who were Lithuanian, and quite obviously not paying tax)...that does not help Sweden.

Time is right for an end to the politically correct nonsense, and a kickback from someone. (unfortunately for the moment that is only people with a very right wing agenda) - I say this as a "riktigt" liberal socialist...Not one of these "mustn't upset the minorities" bullshitters who have falsely laid claim to the term "liberal". They are not liberal, they are pussies trying to be everyones best friend.

When in Rome...
23:35 September 16, 2010 by sweedy82
Why don't the invandrare just work double as hard for five minutes at two o' clock on Thursday?
00:04 September 17, 2010 by Swedesmith
Some people bring joy to a room upon entering and others upon leaving. The same, I'm sure, could be said about countries. Many immigrants bring useful and welcome gifts to their new home, others not so. Can the quality of the immigrant be controlled? Can it be done ethically? That is the real issue.

And to cowboy and others who seem to get all riled up and threaten to unleash the tiger when someone criticizes their religion: I find it unusual that the very religion that denotes all others as infidels worthy of only slavery or death, the religion that promotes jihad to cleanse the world of infidels, the religion that issues death warrants to those who poke some fun at it's founder and the religion that sponsors terrorists who strap bombs to their body and blow themselves up in a crowded marketplace full of innocent people, this is the very same group of people who are the first group of people to cry discrimination and racism when the discussion doesn't go their way.
00:09 September 17, 2010 by Marko2010S
Without Turk immigrants, no goon in Sweden would have tasted the wonderful turkish kebab.

Without Arab immigrants, no muppet in Sweden would have tasted the wonderful oriental food recipes.

Without Indian/Pakistani immigrants, no lumpen in Sweden would have tasted the wonderful spicy food.

Swedes you must be grateful to have these people in your country, because this is an honor for you.
00:15 September 17, 2010 by americanska
Don't forget half of Sweden immigrated to the USA at one point. Maybe the rest of you can come and just give Sweden to the Muslims completely.
00:24 September 17, 2010 by Kaethar
@Marko2010S: The negatives outway the positives when it comes to the majority of Islamic immigrants. And people who are granted asylum here should in fact be grateful to us and not the other way around. I can't understand why anyone would believe otherwise. As it is now I would say most refugees ARE gratefull. It's often their children we have a problem with in Sweden (attitude-wise) due to lack of integration.
00:54 September 17, 2010 by freedomof speech
i personally think that sweden has a immigration problem in terms of people not willing to mix and get to blend in to eachothers cultures, learn from eachother, there is a huge fear there by people. Alot of people just want to stick to their own community which is their comfort zone. Alot of swedish people have a barrier towards immigrants, its like they are not real when they get to know you and they have a stigma stuck on the back of their minds , which doesnt seem good. i mean come on...how many years have their been immigrants and people of colour in sweden and its like when they see you, your an alian or something, they stare at you. I think swedish people are beautiful people and i like the language and the food and the country is so beautifull, i also love the weather which is fresh and i honestly just loved this coutry but i just think swedish people need to losen up a bit and try to mix with other cultures, and immigrants , visa versa. seriously we all humen beings so we should learn to just be patient with eachother. At the end of the day, immigrants are " guest" to sweden to i think you should stop complaining but set rules and immigrants should learn to obide by them. obviously im not talking about rules which will discriminate and take away the freedom and rights of individuals. immigrants need to fix up and look sharp, contribute to sweden because if we going to live here we need to make it home and study hard, work hard, play hard and show swedish people the beautifull side of our cultures, if its through, music, arts, food, theatre, language, drama, fashion. etc etc.

Thank you
02:13 September 17, 2010 by glamelixir

50% of the Swedes are liars...

Your comment is just pointless and prejuidicials. Being a liar is not a matter of nationality.
02:14 September 17, 2010 by Jannik
When it comes to PC, Sweden is the worst country i have ever stayed in.

Muslim and african immigrants are invading Sweden in large numbers, and nobody wants to do anything about it except SD.

Reinfeldt and Sahlin are examples of spineless political correct cowards, sucking up to muslims at any opportunity they get.

No wonder that Sweden is headed for the gutters with these kinds of leaders, infatuated with multiculturalism and cultural selfloathing. None of the established parties are looking out for the interests of ethnic swedes.

Therefore its time for a political wake up call.
02:44 September 17, 2010 by Marko2010S
@Jannik #54

JOOC, Do you have any Muslim friend(s) ?
05:52 September 17, 2010 by Rick Methven

"Don't forget half of Sweden immigrated to the USA at one point"

Where did you read that? back of your cornflake box. That seems to be the source of all your knowledge of the world LOL
06:44 September 17, 2010 by Rick Muslim
Hahaha. Corn flake box. Ha! Rick, you funny guy. When we go to mosque buddy?

Sverige needs Islam like every woman needs niqab. Islam bring so much peace and friendly respect to Sverige. Respect for all people...Svenne woman, elderly Svenne, Jewish Svenne, everyone! No crime ever committed by Muslim in Sverige. There should be more mosque in every city from Kiruna to Helsingborg. Only hallal meat too. More peace for everyone. Dont be Nazi, submit to Islam.
07:15 September 17, 2010 by seagull

"JOOC, Do you have any Muslim friend(s) ?"

I know this wasn't directed at me, but it is an interesting point.

I have been through the SFI/ SAS system. I met many many muslims. Many of which were really pleasant nice people. I made many friends in SFI, many of who were female and married (I am male by the way).

There is not a single muslim who I could now say is a "friend". Yes there are quite a few who if I see, I chat to, but it doesn't seem they really do "friendship" with non-muslims. Now this is obviously a small sample, and my experience is one in many, but the same happened to a couple of other friends too.

@Rick Muslim

"Dont be Nazi, submit to Islam."

So there are only two choices now? No of course not. I choose the third way... Stay rational, and "submit" to none of the above when t comes to imaginary friends and ancient old books telling me to distrust those who don't join our club.
08:30 September 17, 2010 by calebian22
Submit to Islam? Not likely.
08:32 September 17, 2010 by Rick Methven

Rick Muslim is just a troll - Ignore
08:46 September 17, 2010 by Bork
I think many above are missing finer details. There are at least 2 problems that relate to this. 1. Refugees. The door seems to be wide open for refugees with no pressure at all for them to adapt to Swedish traditions or even find work. 2. Not enough work and preference given to Swedes. This creates a clear divide, us and them on both sides (between Swedes and all newly arrived non-Swedes). Swedes who can't find work blame the non-Swedes, non-Swedes feel discriminated against, bored, desperate, an outsider.

I don't know how the government can reduce the inflow of refugees, but they have to. More and more refugees will tell their families back in worn ton countries how sweet life in Sweden, that they don't even need to work or adapt to Swedish culture at all.

The argument that Sweden needs immigrants is different. Immigrants come with skills for specific jobs that there are not enough people living in Sweden to fill. And because a country does this at high points of production, or when population drops, does not mean a country forever needs a mass influx of immigrants. When the unemployment rate is so high and so many are out of work, allowing immigrants and refugees in when there is not work for them is irresponsible, bad for those who are moving to Sweden who will live on the margins and bad for those living in Sweden before.
09:01 September 17, 2010 by Bork
Non-stop population growth for the sake of "production" also doesn't make sense anywhere in the world from a sustainability perspective (when does it end?).

The large immigrant populations you find in other European countries tend to be related to those countries past colonial empires, or were immigrants allowed in when there were not enough people in the country to fill the jobs available. It may have been the case at one time in Sweden, but the mass inflow of people into Sweden now are not from countries that Sweden had anything to do with and they are not being invited by the government to fill vacant job positions. Sweden just has quite relaxed refugee rules. So they're getting people escaping a part of the world that has been wrecked from English and American wars, political meddling, and religious extremism. If anything, it should be England, the US, and whatever countries partner with them in their wars that has to take those refugees in, not Scandinavian countries that have kept to themselves (excluding Denmark a bit).

It's also a poor argument that immigrants are needed to do work Swedes (or natives or any country) don't want to do when there is such high unemployment. This is more of an issue in countries with high income disparities that pay unlivable wages for such work, as is the case in the US, than it is in Sweden where one can expect to earn at least a bottom-level living salary/wage. It's also a bit racist in itself to suggest Outsiders must do the dirty work for the clean Swedes who will only touch white collar work. If there is a worker shortage, that's a different story and the argument is legit.
09:54 September 17, 2010 by americanska
Bork- the USA has always been taking in immigrants. The difference is the have opportunity in the us instead of the promise of free money. Maybe you swedes should learn your own history of immigration to the USA.
10:24 September 17, 2010 by gorgepir

I don't exactly understand the point you are trying to make, the percentages in jail are the effect of the initial cause which was not utilizing immigrants well. Had they had the immigration been properly handled, your percentages would look much different. Oh, and if Svensson Svensson didnt accept the application of a foreign immigrant in migrationsverket, it sure as hell wasnt a foreigner doing so. That you yourself didnt accept it does not make you any less responsible for the laws of your country.

Also, it is not enough for the immigrant to want to be utilized, it is necessary that the host country also tries to get them to the right place. The whole process will be futile if the first party is lacking (immigrant doesnt want to be utilized) or the second party is lazy (doesnt try to integrate the immigrant).

To me, it is quite obvious, but of course it is very hard to have rational argument over the internet.


What a ridicules try at an argument. Cherry picking much??

What if I say Barack Obama and Nicholas Sarakozy. They are also sons of immigrants? And guess what, Obama's father was a Muslim too!!! Oh the horror!

Cherry picking is not the way to make an argument. You should try to back up what you say with entire facts, not just choosing the show only those that support your point of view.

And on that topic, you mistake illegal immigrants with legal ones. If the argument was about illegal immigrants in Sweden, then your comment made sense. Now it is irrelevant, because you talk about how illegal immigrants in the US are bad and therefore legal immigrants in Sweden are bad too. You should try to keep more focus on the argument. And try using logic sometimes. It helps.

Oh, and I am still waiting for an explanation for why the Swedes let in so many immigrants for the likes of Uncle and flintis to make fun of? Where you forced to let them become Swedes? Or did you just do so to have a laugh? Still waiting for an intelligent answer to this.
10:36 September 17, 2010 by Bork
Of course. I meant the refugee situation in Sweden. Skilled immigration is fine. The immigrant who can't find work will have a difficult time staying, so it can work itself out. The problem is a mass influx of refugees. They have a much easier time remaining in the country than a skilled immigrant. The country's welfare system wasn't built with this in mind.
11:03 September 17, 2010 by Elias06
Those who are nostalgic of sweden in the 60'S i understand them, but i want to tell them that not only sweden changed, all europe changed, even countries from where immigrants came changed. i worked in france for several years and i can ensure you that the swedish policy in in immigration matters is much more efficient fair and smart comparing to france for example. Immigrants in sweden love sweden, and sweden is developpping also thanks to this immigration , of course nothing can be perfect : there are those who take advantage of the system who cause trouble...and unfortunatly affect the image of all immigrants.

This call of RASTI is not a positive thing at all ,swedes are smart enough to assess how immigration is developping the country or worsening things.
11:04 September 17, 2010 by cowboykodp

As your girlfriend Uncle says, unfortunately for me I am not a Muslim.

I have many friends who are Muslims, Jews and Christians. One of the things they all have in common is their disgust at people like you.

It is obvious that you have been visiting many websites dedicated to nonsensical generalizations about people.

"If you have no sympathy for the troubles of others, you are not worthy to be called by the name of "man""
11:55 September 17, 2010 by Jes
Uncle , you are wrong !

It is the devils you support that put all immigrants in one pot.

For a weeks now , I have been telling you that not all immigrants are the same . I have told you that immigrants belong to different social and economical levels , just like the indeginous Swedes. I have told you that immigrants and Swedes are both exposed to the same elements .

I have told you that a lot of Swedes get stuck on Welfare , just like immigrants . I have informed you that not all the jobless are immigrants .

And now what do you say ?

"Actually indian, korean, east european, chinese and western immigrants have proved that they can actually learn the language, find work and integrate within the Swedish society"

HAHA , to that !!!!!!

That is exactly what you should tell yourself before you go to bed every night. You are judging indians , koreans , east europeans , chinese etc , not by how many of them fail to speak Swedish or find jobs , but on those that do .

You are not judging immigrants from the far east by the many illerate women that come to Sweden , but on the few that make it into the Swedish working family .

You are not judging eastern european immigrants by the few who rob banks or smuggle wine and ciggerates , but those who run pizzerias drive taxis, or work in Schools and hospitals

Move on and judge the African immigrant by what Dr.Alban does ; what Sabuni and Fatuma say ; what Tainton , Blossom`s or Titiyo and Nina Cheri`s have contributed to Swedish music cutlure .

Judge african immigrants by what "Texas" has done for the youths and boxing , and now what a few african criminals have done.

Don`t judge those wonderful African -American lady singers by their bad Swedish but by the incredible quality of their vocals -whenever they perform with Robert Wells

Donnot judge South American immigrants by Titos actions , but by the music played by a street band made up of "natives " in Stockholm .

In turn ,immigrants should not judge all Swedes by that Police Officer who raped 12 women while the force new and kept silent .

Immigrants should not jugde Swedes for looking on and doing nothing as Anna , a Minister was stabbed to death in a shopping centre in broad day light. Immigrants should not judge all Swedes by the bizarre sexual habits of some individuals

Immigrants should judge Swedes by the majority of Swedes who are kind , respectful and very very cultured .

@celebian 22, immigration has not been well discussed in this election , Instead , it is integration that has been touched - slitely . That is a pity! However , SD has not "discussed " the issue ; it has laid out a charge - pointing fingers ar immigrants as the biggest problem in Sweden .

Would I be "discussing" with you if my first sentense is that "you are stupid" ?

No wonder it get rough when the devils show up .
11:57 September 17, 2010 by samwise
I'll work extra 10 minutes today to express my appreciation to swedes.

this is no paradise, but better than most of the places in the world. by the way, I don't believe paradise will come in this world as long as we stay as sinful humans.
12:27 September 17, 2010 by cowboykodp
Great quote from Financial Times (FT.com)

"As for the Swedish Democrats, they will in time come to resemble the 19th century farmers who vehemently protested imminent industrialization. Laughable."

Ola Lithman,
13:48 September 17, 2010 by Uncle

Oh yeah. You hurt me. Real bad...

So if I have a reaction to your posts it shows that I am hurt? Understood and implemented in the future...


no immigration as whole did integrate well. Even in immigrant countries like the US and Israel, the society is quite segregated socially and economically and it is OK. as long they do not force themselves and their weirdness on the others. And IF they do, they get pounded upon. So what countries are you talking about?


You are all the time trying to call to the western and eastern European immigrants, as well as Indians here to consider OH, Awful racist people want YOU also outta here. Because you are immigrants also! Please do not make me find the quotes for that. There is no time and no will to do that. The difference in Sweden does not make any positive impact.

Look at marko! Our brave Marko tried to find all the good stuff that immigrants brought. He could not find anything else, but food references! How ridiculous is that? So the Swedes would leave on fish and potatoes…. Oh my God, how awful. What a luck that they get to pay for the oily kebab honour with a burned car…

What did you find? Street singers, who I really doubt are even immigrants? Or you found African Americans? Why ? Because they are close to Africans? Are you kidding me? These are westeners in 12th - 15th generation. How racist are you?

Yes, there is Dr. Alban and Zlatan (who actually is eastern European and goes under MY group of good immigration). Nobody said that 100% of immigrants from Africa and Middle East are bad or good. But they INCREASE statistics of bad things. Do you understand this? The risk of a person on a street of Stockholm these days is greatly increased compared to 30 years a go. Why do you disregard this?
15:21 September 17, 2010 by Mirva
Why don't you mention the thousands of 'tourism businesses' in Sweden where the owners are from Germany, Switzerland, France...and how they exploit the Swedish benefit system in form of instegsjobb etc and take 'workers' (friends, relatives) from their homeland. The ultimate purpose to stay here and further exploit the benefit system.
15:28 September 17, 2010 by gorgepir

Of course nothing on the whole is perfect. There are no free lunches in life.

For every immigrant that you deem good, there will be 10 that are not. Thing is, the same can be said about any minority. It is the price to pay for diversity. Most communities have decided that it is a price worth paying. You can argue that it is not, but then you will be accused of living in the past, and not reacting appropriately to the changing times.

And about societies with immigrants that are integrated, I would name Canada and New Zealand as good examples. Got a lot of skilled foreigners that were good for both the country and the individual, and therefore immigrants are valued because they bring knowledge, workforce and diversity to the table.

And I am still waiting for your response why you let immigrants move to Sweden on your terms (as Swedes made the laws for who can be a Swede) and now focus your frustration on the immigrants instead of the Swedes that did so. Your argument would have more weight had you at least focused it at those who did this in the first place, aka letting foreigners becoming Swedes in the first place.
16:13 September 17, 2010 by calebian22

Slightly is not good enough. You might not like the SD's but ignoring them will not make the problems with immigration, refugees and integration, go away. Ignoring the problems that we read about in the papers every day will only attract more to SD, not because the newcomers are bigots, but because all the other parties only "slightly" address the problems.
16:28 September 17, 2010 by Uncle

Because I have no idea what you are talking about. I would like to hear though how much does it cost to the Swedish society, if it is true. If this is compared to filled prisons, riots and mass welfare life of the less fortunate immigrants, I would be the first to curse and blame the horrible Germans and French.


Dear gorgepir you are actually saying whatever I said for quite a while now. If the devil-like SD had a chance here, it would simply implement the Canadian and New-Zealandian systems. Namely, FILTERING the immigration according to the professional needs of the country and using this immigration to pay off the limited amount of asylum seekers. Immigration there sponsors itself (like the Thai wives that come here with a sponsor). This creates an economical equilibrium that is maintained within the society. Are africans integratied into Canadian society? Of course not. But at least they are counterbalanced by the young educated immigrants from Eastern Europe, Korea, India and Latin America.

Educated immigrants bring all these wonderful things that you described. Uneducated immigrants surely bring diversity, but into prisons. What POSSIBLE knowledge did our Somalian friends bring to Sweden? What kind of a beautiful workforce did our muslim brothers bless us with, when Sweden has 400,000 unemployed, of which huge amount are these muslim friends?

In regards to the idiot socialists, I am definitely frustrated with them beyond belief. They would like to continue accepting whatever they dig out of mud huts in tens of thousands and throw them here with zero support or previous calculation of what will cover for these people economical misfortunes.
16:51 September 17, 2010 by Jes
Uncle ,

you sound confused . I beg your pardon but you have no authority to re-define anything . An immigrant is an immigrant no matter what his/ her status in Sweden is .

All the names I mentioned are children of African immigrants that come to Sweden less than 50 years ago . You better educated yourself if you are going to be useful in debates such as this one .

Even Fins who came to Sweden in the 18th century , from next door still consider themselves immigrants in Sweden

And yes ,the street band I am talking about is made up of afew native South Americans aka "Indians" . You have never been in Stockholm ?


Sweden is ignoring SD ; that is official !!!

SD has neither the power or the means to stop human movement; that is the fact .

There is no government on earth that can eliminate social or economiical snags . Intelligent people will therefor look for balance .

Immigration issues are a challenge everwhere Sir . Even Somalia delt with an influx of refugees when Ethiopia was at war with Eretrea . Uganda has a million refugeees who have run away from Somalia , Rwanda , Congo , Sudan etc.

Hong Kong went through a rough period with " boat people " some of themm still live underground 17 years after their familes got deported . USA has 10 million illegals . Jordans population is more than 35% immigrant . South Africa has been invaded by all kinds of immigrants .

Need I go on ?
16:57 September 17, 2010 by BunnyOlesen
@gorgepir regarding your comment: What if I say Barack Obama and Nicholas Sarakozy. They are also sons of immigrants? And guess what, Obama's father was a Muslim too!!! Oh the horror!

Barack Obama is NOT the son of an immigrant, his father was never a united states citizen. And who gives a crap about Sarakozy, this isn't france, and france is almost totally absorbed. Swedes, as any race and any country has the right to limit immigration and retain their OWN cultural identity. If you think wanting to do that is racist, then by all means complain to Mugabe and Zuma, as their immigration policy includes stealing the farm land of people who have lived on it for 200 years and more, whilst commonly killing the families who live there.

I am surrounded by immigrants where I live, and the muslim men do not allow their wives to work, and considering I never see the father going anywhere (even though I hear him screaming all day long) I assume he doesn't work either. None of them seem to speak swedish either.

Did you know that for many years MUSLIM (ONLY) immigrants were paid $6K kr a year to "learn" to speak swedish & if they didn't pass the test they would continue to pay them each year? WOW how long did it take them to figure out that was really stupid, as NO ONE seemed to be passing. Even now they offer $10K for those who pass.

With new immigration laws making it easy to bring in elderly relatives of immigrants, they are bringing them over (of course too old to work) and they QUITE OFTEN receive pensions GREATER than that of elderly swedes who have worked ALL their lives and have been paying one of the highest taxes as well. Who pays for it? Why has the incidence of rape, murder, assault increased SO greatly each and every year, specifically in the cities that have the most immigrants.

The cities with the highest crime rates, are not the largest cities, but are clearly delineated by highest number of immigrants in the city. In Malmo city buses have had to drop routes because the muslims throw rocks at the buses, young teenage swedish boys are beaten, killed and swedish girls are raped and gang raped. 85% of convicted rapists were born on foreign soil or by foreign parents.

I have nothing against immigrants - just MUSLIMS - it's as simple as that, and UNCLE IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT - what the HELL did somalians bring with them? Except the ability to expertly squirt out 10-15 kids a piece, one per year, while never working, never learning the language and ALWAYS hating whites and hating christians. Somalia has one of the most virulent murderous antichristian mind sets in the world ! They ACTIVELY SEEK OUT christians and execute them on the spot, or burn them alive. A woman was recently killed for refusing to wear a headscarf. A 13 yr old girl was stoned to death after she had been gang raped (for adultery)

These illiterate, unskilled, anti-christian and white hating people do not belong here.
17:19 September 17, 2010 by gorgepir

Your generalization of all muslims is the problem. I am a muslim, I am not an immigrant here and am a PhD student contributing the your society by teaching bachelor and master students and doing research for myself/the university. I probably took away the opportunity for a Swede to take this position, but since there were no Swedes interested in my engineering field, I guess that is ok according to you.

I am also paying the same taxes you are paying, I have all the social responsibilities you do, except I do not get most of the privileges a normal citizen does. So essentially, I am paying taxes for services I will never receive (I don't have children so I am paying for taxes so your children can go to school for free while I don't receive anything in reverse). So in that sense, you are a burden to me, I am paying taxes for stuff that only you get to enjoy. Do I go around shouting to say that Swedes are ... and ...? No, I thank them for the opportunity I have got and use the money I get to buy a house, with money I earned here and money I brought over from my home country (and hence contribute even more to the society). In response, what I get is for people (like you) to come and say that since someone who allegedly has the same religion I do, has done something wrong to someone somewhere, call me illiterate, unskilled, anti-christian and white hating. And you feel vindicated by that too.

I am sure that you are the ones that have gotten the bad deal out of this. (/scarcasm)

If you want to hate on me for being a muslim, be my guest. You will have to go to the back of the line though, there are many in front of you.

I would have preferred to be part of a society where I am not prosecuted for what I believe in. I am getting a feeling that Sweden is not that society.
17:27 September 17, 2010 by BunnyOlesen
@Jes -

are you off your medication? You're a real self-righteous arrogant son of a bitch aren't you, calling SD devils and swedes racist

let me tell you something, even if they are it's not really any of your business, is it? How racist is it for people of a different race to go to a country and then treat the indigenous people like crap? Telling them how they are running things wrong, how they should bow to every demand, and change to accommodate the person of a totally different ethnic background.

"Why don`t you first educated yourself before offering your opinions ?" HA !! thats what muslims ALWAYS say.

"Okay , you claim to work and contribute to whatever , blah blah . But do you go around with a sticker on your fore-head to show these SD devils that you are different from their targeted immigrants ?"

(if they are not muslim, they don't need a sticker !!!)

"If you are an immigrant , please stay away from throwing blame about . You have no idea which immigrant has a job or who doesn`t" (ANOTHER typical tactic of argumentative muslims, ordering people on what they should say or not say, telling EVERYONE who disagrees with you that they are ignorant)

85% of all convicted rapists in sweden are immigrants or children of immigrants (typically muslim and african muslim descent)

during a 4 year period representing late 90's and early 00's

25% of the almost 1,520,000 offences committed in sweden, were committed by people born overseas, while almost 20% were committed by Swedish-born people with a foreign background. Those from North Africa and the Middle East were overrepresented.

17:34 September 17, 2010 by gorgepir
Let me just add one thing to what I said there, regarding what you said and I quote:

"Swedes, as any race and any country has the right to limit immigration and retain their OWN cultural identity. If you think wanting to do that is racist, then by all means complain to Mugabe and Zuma"

I don't understand your argument here. So are you defending Mugabe and Zuma here and saying what they did is not racist, or are you saying that both what you think and what they did is racist? Are you saying SD and Mugabe have similar views on immigration? Or are you saying since they did it, you can do it too? Because that means essentially you know that it is wrong to do such a thing, but you want to do it anyway to retaliate?

I am deeply confused at what you were trying to say.
17:38 September 17, 2010 by Jes
@Bany Olsen

I am not a muslim . I have my opinions about radical muslims which sane people have read here and other places .

It a compliment to be called arrogant by an obvious dickhead .

Yeah , only 85% of immigrants are rapists !!

Are you sure its not 123% ?
17:48 September 17, 2010 by BunnyOlesen

ARE you an immigrant or aren't you? You said you are not an immigrant, if that is true, then how did you take the opportunity from a swede, when you are a swede?

YOU SAID: call me illiterate, unskilled, anti-christian and white hating.

(ARE YOU a recent Somalian immigrant? If NOT that comment was not directed at YOU, that comment was directed towards Somalians.)

YOU SAID: I would have preferred to be part of a society where I am not prosecuted for what I believe in. I am getting a feeling that Sweden is not that society. (did you mean PROSECUTED or PERSECUTED - in muslim countries christians are EXECUTED, please be greatful you are not a christian living in a muslim country, rather than angry that a christian country simply wants to stop a huge influx of people who will not integrate, and you KNOW this to be true. SWEDEN LIKE ANY OTHER COUNTRY ON EARTH HAS THE RIGHT TO RETAIN IT'S CULTURAL, ETHNIC, AND HISTORICAL IDENTITY - whether you get irritated at the fact that there are now SO MANY african and middle eastern immigrants here that we are having problems, at least understand the reality - we have rights too - and we do not want to see OUR homes, our rights, even our very lives disappear, because that is what has happened to christians living in almost every muslim country (as well as b'hai, buddhists and hindi's)

ALSO I don't know your race, but by all means go to any country on earth that is not "your ethnic/racial background" and you will experience racism. In Zimbabwe & South Africa whites are murdered daily for being white, go to china, korea, africa - whites & middle easterners are hated - Chinese treat koreans badly, koreans hate japanese & vietnamese, vietnamese hate cambodians. IT'S EVERYWHERE - it is the human nature.

"I am also paying the same taxes you are paying, I have all the social responsibilities you do, except I do not get most of the privileges a normal citizen does. (IF YOU ARE A SWEDISH CITIZEN, THEN THIS STATEMENT IS A FABRICATION, because what do you mean by "normal citizen" in that all citizens receive the same privileges) in your comment you said I AM NOT an immigrant - if you ARE an immigrant, then you should accept the standard until you become one as what you have to do to get citizenship)"

"So essentially, I am paying taxes for services I will never receive (I don't have children so I am paying for taxes so your children can go to school for free while I don't receive anything in reverse). So in that sense, you are a burden to me, I am paying taxes for stuff that only you get to enjoy."

THIS also is not true - and what do you mean by "only you" get to enjoy? I don't have any kids, but the somalian lady 2 doors down has 9 kids and they all enjoy the benefits of free school and a good free healthy lunch.
18:06 September 17, 2010 by cowboykodp

Are you Danish by any chance?

That would explain a lot.
18:11 September 17, 2010 by calebian22

"Intelligent people will therefore look for balance"

So since none of the parties are discussing solutions what does that say about the sitting politicians in the Riksdag? Where is the balance in Sweden right now? I gladly welcome SD on Monday. The other parties will have to address the current immigrant issues in order to make SD be quiet. And frankly they have only themselves to blame for the rise of SD. If they had been responsible, especially with the numbers of refugees allowed in, SD would just be a small tiny little voice.
18:12 September 17, 2010 by gorgepir
Maybe I am mistaken on the wording. A phd student is entitled to a student visa, meaning temporary stay. That means I do not have a Swedish citizenship, but a normal student visa. So I am not an immigrant (I think). When I said I took the opportunity from a Swede, I meant there may have been a Swede applying for the same PhD position I did, but my supervisor decided to give it to me instead.

You did not say you just hate Somalis, you said: "I have nothing against immigrants - just MUSLIMS" and then you continue with your statistics about how the Somali muslims were not good and ...I assumed that you meant all muslims, since that was what I said.

And I still don't understand your point.Are you saying since muslims execute Christians in their countries (which is a gross exaggeration I might add), you should retaliate by PERSECUTING (thanks for the spell check) muslims? Or do you agree with those muslim countries ideology and say that what they are doing is right therefore you should do it too?The rest of that argument is irrelevant to the discussion. I am happy that I am not a christian executed by muslims. Sure. I am not happy that I am a muslim being persecuted though. That was the argument. Focus.

Of course I will see some sort of racism, I am not saying I won't. It doesnt make it right to "be a racist" because everywhere I go there will be some sort of racism though.Are you saying since everywhere there is some racism, that means it is ok to be a racist? Everywhere there is some murders going on, does that mean it is ok to be a murderer?

Once again, I am not a Swedish citizen. Maybe I am mistaken with the definition of immigrant, but as I said I am a PhD student who is employed and working and paying taxes. Obviously I have accepted the standard, that is why I am here (and why I said I am thankful for the opportunity I got). What is interesting though is that it shows that "your" immigrant policy is different from Uncle's, he wants skilled immigrants to bring knowledge, you prefer to just skip them altogether. Otherwise you would have said something like: since you are contributing to the society and have positive contribution, you would have been a be a better person to become a Swede instead of Somalis (which we have established you hate). Since you didnt say such a thing, I get it that you just want foreigners (skilled or not) to get out of the country, which is what I suspected SD stands for all along.

And your last paragraph, only you enjoy it because I am paying for your (not specifically but you as a Swede) children's education while you will never pay for mine (because I am out of here after my PhD finishes).I dont care if you don't have a child and your neighbor does. Skatteverket takes out a portion of my salary for a benefit I will never receive and only you will (being citizens or staying here legally for enough time to have a child).

Your frustration is understandable. Your actions(and words) are not.
18:18 September 17, 2010 by BunnyOlesen
No, I'm not Danish, and why would you say that? Why would a dane care about swedish immigration policies?

You're a troll - you're either retarded or teat fed media bull so you neither know nor care what the truth is.

Considering I have been told by many muslims "HAHA yes I live on benefits and I will continue to do so, keep working hard so you can support me and that makes you my B itch" then I also believe many of them come here to live on benefits IDIOT living on welfare here is still better than working in their own dirt ball countries. I recently spoke to a muslim boy who grew up in Sweden but whose father made the decision to move to England so their family could be part of the "war" that's going to happen there.

When a country like sweden has to create a society called "STOP honor killings in Sweden" THERE'S A PROBLEM. When mufti's in sweden say it is more acceptable to rape swedish women because they have probably already EFFED before and virginity is important to muslim girls, and then "accidentally" during an interview slips and says "swedish whores, ooh haha I mean WOMEN" THERE IS A PROBLEM. When teenage muslim boys who have committed robberies and have been interviewed state that they 'only rob swedish people because we hate them and we are waging a war against them" THERE IS A PROBLEM.

If you don't see this as a problem, then you're probably muslim. Otherwise, from what I can see the whole side of your conversation is basically nothing but derisive insults, calling people stupid or crazy, and stating that 95% of the swedish people are disgusted by the SD's when it is VERY obvious to me, that MOST swedes are sick of OVERimmigration - if you want to live in a totally multi-cultural country - move to the U.S.
18:54 September 17, 2010 by Jes
@celebian22 ,

you don´t get it do you ?

SD is not going to force the issue as bank robber does not force Banks to use weaker locks .

If you were smarter , you would simply be worried that your devils are going to influence the next government towards a more flexiable immigration policy than what there was before SD popped up .

In simpler words , the allience and the Red-green will want to put some action behind their words of their rejection to work with SD . If I were an asylum-seeker waiting for an answer , I would hope that the SD idiots make even more anti-immigrant rantings .

One word of caution : don`t count your chicks yet !
19:11 September 17, 2010 by calebian22

You calling me unintelligent doesn't make it so. Ad hominem fallicies are my favorite. I look forward to Monday, or if not then, 2014.
19:16 September 17, 2010 by Uncle

Let us be clear. You get money for your PhD here, you pay income taxes. You are probably not taking any swedes place because YOUR place is probably reserved for foreigners to pimp the status of the Uni.

Now in regards to what you say. "Do not generalize muslims.... I am on a PhD program here". The fact is, dearest gorgepir, these few educated people in the muslim world (like yourself) are scared "¤itless of the psychos from your religion...

No moderate muslim condemns suicide bombing, rioting, stoning women, hanging gays publicly. Even if one does say something, one always adds "but" and starts banging on about how west did bad things to these muslims who cut off a head of a nun on a camera. Even Marko, whom I like, was not far from the sin of blaming the west before.

You are afraid... Only the fact that even YOU are scared shows something about muslims, where thinking otherwise from the mainstream is punished.

Also you do not argue with the statistics of crime and all that. Of course it is hard to argue that there is demonisation of all muslims after muslims burn churches and kill 19 people in India after some priests burned books. (I have heard a bad joke that when US heard that 1 burned Koran = 20 dead muslims, they started printing Korans and chopping wood like crazy). I mean, the mentality OBVIOUSLY does not fit. The immigration policy is OBVIOUSLY a problem. The harm from the muslim immigrants OBVIOUSLY overwhelms the benefits.... So what is the argument? That "oh, God there are also GOOD and CONTRIBUTING muslims in the half million that blessed this country with their presence... WOW!"

Jes, am I confusing you? Sorry mate, I will make it simple. As I said, you are shoving EVERYBODY into the bag of immigrants, whereas any Swede does not mean finns when he says "immigrant". A social acceptance in the little swedish world. Also when one digs deeper into the SD website, one sees clearly what "immigrant" means in Sweden. Do not call for sentiments from the western immigrants saying that SD is against them also. The fact is that it is not.
20:11 September 17, 2010 by Jes
Uncle , you are not confusing me ; you are confused . Know the difference ?

" deeper into the SD website " there is nothing that says what you are attempting to say here . I mean "western immigrants " is not a term I have heard or seen anywhere else .

Do you mean white immigrants ?

Good night !
20:47 September 17, 2010 by Uncle
You see, dear Jes. You are trying so much to make this racist, that soon you will actually convince yourself.

No, I mean that there is no importance to the race of the immigrant. The problem is religion, darling. Blond, blue eyed europeans who convert to Islam are impacted by the non-tolerant ideas that are overwhelming this religion. This religion does not accept others. THIS religion fights with every other religion. Members of this religion start to arrive to violence with a higher percentage than any other group.

Some person here posted a direct relation between the percentage of muslims in any given region and the amount of violence in that region country by country. It was an amazing analysis. I could actually make an effort and find this brilliant post.

Now, it is not 100%. Not even 30%. But it is more than any other socio-economic or religious group offers and this is enough.... Add to it their treatment of women (and girls), refusal to see any conflict in which muslims are involved from an objective point of view and lack of criticism of the muslim governments, terrorist groups and rioters who kill people when they are upset because of a book or caricature - it creates a FUNDAMENTAL incompatibility that if not recognized, could be dangerous.

As for the moderate ones - they know EXACTLY what I mean. As I said, they themselves are afraid of this wave of hatred coming in a constant rate from the muslim countries. They do not even argue with that. They just say: "So, do you want to be like them?" without actually criticizing them.
21:42 September 17, 2010 by darrenj
Taking the swedes jobs, nonsense!!

There is great shortage in the old age care section, wheres the swede?

That horrible Somalian dude cleaning the train station platform, taking away the job of an honest red neck swede!!!

Oh wait a minute THE PAY IS SHYTE!!

I forget
23:27 September 17, 2010 by cowboykodp
@ Jes;

I appreciate that you feel compelled to defend Islam. I say there is no need. An obviously intelligent and dignified gentleman as yourself should not waste their time with people who have already made up their minds.

This entire notion of the "right kind of immigrant" is complete nonsence.

Let me tell you a story:

Our neighbor in our little village here in Sweden is a man in his late 60's. Full blooded Swede, blond hair, blue eyes. He has hated immigrants as long as anyone has known him. Even 30 years ago, when there was no "muslim problem" he hated immigrants. These were Fins, Poles, Greeks, Italians, Russians, Latvians, the entire gamete.

At a party, he was asked if he prefers his daughter marry an alcoholic Swede, or a black Surgeon. He replied...an alcoholic Swede.

He is known as the "village racist", and needless to say, the laughing stock of the entire village. Just as the SD are the laughing stock in Sweden. In fact Swedes are pretty embarrassed that this party might make it into the government.

There is no doubt that there are these kind of people in Sweden, but a small percentage. These racists are mostly not very educated or well traveled.

So, all these immigrants who speak on this forum are basically saying.."trust me, because I am not that kind of immigrant". But how wrong they are, because the people who hate immigrants, hate all kinds. Of course they will not say that to their face, but its the reality.

So focus on your education, and try not to loose too much sleep over these "proper immigrants". Its a bunch of bull.
23:55 September 17, 2010 by christopherx2
God bless the Swedish people, and turn them away from sin, and murdering their own children and nation. May their tribe increase a hundredfold. May their righteousness before the Lord, our God, increase a hundrefold. May they never surrender. May they always be Swedish. Thank you Lord for these people. Amen.
00:36 September 18, 2010 by Uncle
Its hilarious how the muslims and commies are trying to pull ALL immigrants into their midst. How they are hugging some mysterious "immigrants" who are hated by the nazi minority. How they tell stories and anecdotes... How they are reinforcing each other and clapping on each others shoulders..

The truth of the matter is that on this website, radical muslims and commies are treated like they are not even a partner for argument, but a theme to be talked about. As a problem that needs solution. Like a bug in the system.

Left wing is so left that it defends extremely conservative muslims who believe in purity, supremacy and legitimacy of their religion ONLY. People who treat women like property. People who were not even screwed by the west but just screwed up their (or other people's) country. People who suppress every minority in their bunch ruthlessly. People who sell their daughters at the age of 9 into practical slavery. All in the name of "freedom"... Well Hitler was also "freeing" the lands from Slavs in order to accommodate a better group of people.

What is funny is that mostly these mysterious friends and co-fighters of islamists here are the ones that have the guts to say them what they are in their faces, while the swedish society is THINKING the same things. There are already a bunch of areas in Sweden where a swede would not rent or buy a home. There are schools where a swede would not dare to send his kid.

Not because swedes do not like other cultures. Hell, there is a huge line into international schools... But because of only one specific group of people who do not like others. Who support violence against "svenner". Who do not care where their kid is hanging. Who refuse to study or progress.

This is not THE problem. There are other ones. But this is A problem that needs to be addressed ASAP, before the amount of these people got to the critical mass, beyond which they do not complain, but demand through violence.
00:55 September 18, 2010 by Bork

For the record, not all "far left" and anarchist support Islamic minded groups. However, we support a targeted minority group from far right Christian types. Doesn't mean we think their religious beliefs and the way they affect their lives and the lives of others in places they live are to be celebrated nor tolerated if they try to force them on other people. We certainly prefer a society free of religious interference as these make community, consensus decision making more difficult and the Abraham-based religions celebrate authority and obedience to it.

I think your bigger problem is opportunistic political parties who just see a bunch of new voters (or voters for another party) and are afraid of confronting integration problems for fear of losing those potential votes.


"So, all these immigrants who speak on this forum are basically saying.."trust me, because I am not that kind of immigrant". But how wrong they are, because the people who hate immigrants, hate all kinds. Of course they will not say that to their face, but its the reality."

This is over simplification. Many Swedes are well educated and they have had refugees and immigrants for decades. It's suddenly become an issue because many of the current refugees have religious and cultural values much different than Swedes and did not move here for a love a Sweden and the way of life. They fled a terrible situation and ran to a place they could get into. The question now is, if the percentage of religious minded, ultra conservative (in terms of lifestyle) continues to increase and they can vote, will they begin to affect the many years of tolerant, socially liberal life that Sweden is known for, or will they begin to appreciate and love Sweden and adapt to it. At the moment, it appears more the former than the latter. The government isn't helping. There are other, different, problems as well such as criminal minded types who have come to Sweden due to the increasing size of the EU.
01:11 September 18, 2010 by Bork
[Duplicate, deleted]
02:05 September 18, 2010 by christopherx2
Wierd isn't it... because President Ahmadinejad of Iran is a wonderful, beautiful Islamic gentleman, who serves his nation and the world and truth and justice, (and I have never met a sh*t, real Iranian.... a real class act them people), but here's all these hate-filled, criminal, immigrant scum saying they're Islamic too, and behaving like dogs... they wouldn't last five minutes under Islamic law. Ha! That's why they had to leave! They're about as Islamic as your average, brain-washed, Marxist-corrupted Swede is Christian.

It seems, much as the 'Jews' have their Synagogue of Satan, Zionist scum, and the 'Christian' world has its child-molesting freaks... the 'Islamic' world has its parasitic, devil-worshipping hordes aswell.

Gosh, who would have thought that some people in every group are just sh*t, and not what they claim to be, eh?!

"You shall know them by their fruits"

Satan's people are everywhere, and that includes baby-murdering, Marxist, decadent Swedes, who love money more than God and country.

God bless you all! Not long before HIS return. And remember, HE's coming with a sword... Hallelujah!.. really, I suggest you repent... the great plan of annihalation of most of the human race is still underway and going strong, it didn't stop just because you happened to be born... 180 million dead by the hand of our 'political' Masters in the last century, not counting all those murdered babies... 50 million in the US alone since 1950, a river of innocent blood...(I wonder how many of their own blood these 'Swedish' abortionists have murdered?)

So you people better make you're mind up, who exactly is the enemy... and do something about it.

There is plenty of room on this planet for billions more. 'Over-population' is the kind of sh*t you hear from 'British' aristocrats, Marxists, homosexuals and rich people (who never offer to leave themselves)... and global warming, the 'Holocaust' ,and 9-11 is a lie. Liars lie. That's what they do. The Father of the lie... and his Serpent children, speak with forked tongue...

Is this all the work of our Lord and Creator, or Satan himself, and his willing servants? You decide...
04:37 September 18, 2010 by grantike
am just perplexed that everyone is just talking about immigration this a big issue but is it everything,what about the economy,what about education ,green energy.why is everybody torn against immigrants.


i have read all your comments i guess you sound more qualified than Mona sahlin .why not take the job
08:31 September 18, 2010 by Uncle
So this christopherx2 hates everyone except Ahmadinejad. That is cute.

No global warming and no Holocaust. Another good proof of how these radicals are PRECISELY copying the Nazis in all their views. Supremacy of their own religion, suppression and submission of others.

Extreme conservatism hating homosexuals, do not see the benefits of abortions and do not differ between a lacking nervous system fetus and a baby.

The funny thing is that even this freak is christian, there are millions like this in the muslim world. The view on them should be the same as the view on this garbage.
10:55 September 18, 2010 by Jes
Goog morning Uncle !

It is going to be an interesting week-end for me .

Here I am starting my day reading some comical comments directed at me . > -- you feel compelled to defend Islam --< says one @cowsomething .

> . . you sound more qualified that Mona - -< adds the one one

Just the other day , I was called a bigot by one angry muslim for suggesting that as long as Islam continue to reserve Soud Arabia for only one religion , muslims should not be surprised that there are people who will burn the koran or reject the idea of building mosques in their towns , cities or coutries.

I am sure that you read what I wrote .

You also read what I said about selective statistics . I hate to repeat myself , but I have to say that anyone can find something in the figures to help him/ her prove their point.

I asked you a question : what do you mean "western immigrants"?
11:01 September 18, 2010 by cowboykodp
For all the people who are saying that the SD are a true friend of Jews and Israel...

Just heard that a top SD scum denied the Holocaust ever happened.

This conversation is being hijacked by SD scum supporters by suggesting people are against immigration limits and against integration. Not true.

The truth is people are against hate, lies, stereotypes, generalizations, misinformation,fear mongering, doomsday scenarios, etc...

But unfortunately, these types of parties depend on the innocent Swede/Dane/Dutch/Swiss citizens who are not necessarily well educated or sophisticated enough to investigate a subject of concern for themselves.

For every hateful website about people, there are 10 websites that one can properly educate themselves about subjects. Believe it or not, there are still books in libraries.

The problem with immigration is indeed exaggerated, but it plays into peoples fear. It is much easier to take this cowardice route than to talk about the economy, environment, etc...

Again for some small minded people, I will suggest to you that the difficulty with integration has more to do with socioeconomic issues, and not with religion.

I thought this entire week all the major parties discussed this issue of integration very well. So talk to all your Swedish friends who can vote, or maybe yourself, and let them know that these reputable parties are perfectly capable of handling the immigration issue, as well as the most important economic, environmental, etc...
11:20 September 18, 2010 by gorgepir
Uncle, I see you gave up your argument and made up a phony argument so you can continue. The fact that you are telling me how I feel and think (instead of listening to what I say I feel and think) proves how wrong your basis for any argument is.

Accusing me of being scared without ever have even met me proves how desperate you are to rationalize your feelings. Have you even met me? Do you know what I have done or how I live my life? Did I run away from my country because I was scared of my "moderate" Islam, or was it say, hmm, BECOME A PHD STUDENT?

I am pretty sure I am much lest scared of muslim extremist than you.

You hate Islam? No problem. You want to make it sound rational and logical? Thats the part you should just give up. Just say I hate Islam and Muslims, and it is nobody's business that I do. Try to let go of making it sound like you have any logic on your side and I will secede the argument.

I will take your statistics as facts, (because I haven't checked them myself), but that still in no way supports your argument that muslims are the "bad". Take the case of the US and statistics there which show that non-Caucasian whites and Blacks dominate the number of crimes and number of people in prisons. So according to your logic, they must all be muslims. But wait, they are not, and most are even Catholics. Could it be that minorities that are not integrated and don't have jobs in any society have a higher probability of committing crimes?

I guess that just makes to much sense, those people must be muslims in their hearts and just think they are Catholics and Christians, since you know what other people feel and think you should tell them.

And by the way, there is no quota for foreign PhD students, it is just that there are (almost) no more competent Swede's in our engineering field (according to my supervisor, who is a Swede himself). So if people like me (as a whole) don't accept PhD positions here, one of Sweden's main industrial sectors is going down to the Chinese.
11:35 September 18, 2010 by cowboykodp
@ Jes,

Sorry jes, I meant to address my comment (#93) to @gorgepir.

I guess as our friends suggest, all immigrants start looking and sounding the same eventually. Or was it that they are all different. I am starting to get as confused as them!!!

So many comments by these enlightened people regarding muslim behaviour. One could argue every point with them, but its pointless.
11:43 September 18, 2010 by gorgepir

Oh, that was to me. I didnt agree with "the right kind of immigrants" saying, I just said according to your (Uncle and bunny)'s view I would be "the right kind of immigrant". I wanted to stay in his argument and prove that even in his world what he says does not make sense/is not true.

Would anyone guess that a son of an illegal immigrant would turn up be (to me at least) a sensible leader of one of the (if not most) powerful countries in the world? If his case does not prove their is no such thing as "right kind of immigrant" I don't know what does.
11:59 September 18, 2010 by cowboykodp

If you think that these jokers themselves believe what they are saying, you are mistaken.

Even a child knows intuitively the difference between wrong and right, lies and truth, compassion and hate.

These people are stuck in the past and will be part of a sad history soon enough. History is not on the side of SD, Taliban, Al Qaeda, Nazi's, etc...
12:27 September 18, 2010 by Icarusty
@Tall swede

How easy it is to ridicule from a position of privilege.
12:45 September 18, 2010 by Jes
@cowboycodp ,

I understand .

Yeah , sometimes it´s impossible to sort out who is saying what , when , how and why .

I totally agree with your remark that history on not on the side of cowards and haters . Reality is ( sadly ) that we live in a strange World today .

If you started a "FREE PARTY " and your manifesto read as follows :

1 - we want systemesbolaget to open for24 hours a day

2 - chidren should be free to drink alcohol or smoke as they like

3 - we want to decriminalize the use of drugs

4 - driving under the influence should not be a crime until /unless someone has committed an aciident

5 - no speed limits on all major roads

6 - everyone should be free to buy or sell sex

7 - incest or beastiality should be decriminalized

8 - Etc etc

this "FREE PARTY " would get more votes than SD is going to get tomorrow .
13:30 September 18, 2010 by Uncle
I am sorry, gorgepir, what argument did I give up? Who said that my assumption that you are afraid of Islamists is coming from your wonderful engineering adventure in Sweden?

You and all other moderate muslims are afraid of them because you never really criticize them. Tell me what is the difference between islamists and shaveheaded nazis? Why do you direct your accusations towards the nazis, but keep awfully quiet about people who are guilty in all this generalization of muslims?

Oh, hold on. Muslim extremists are not guilty when they behave the way they behave... The WEST is guilty in the way they behave... I forgot... My bad.

Now in regards to others who fill jails. I am sure that Buddhists are in prisons in Tibet and Hindus are filling the prisons of India. My argument is that muslims are statistically more prone to end up in prison. EVEN more than black christians and indians. We have made a calculation here previously and apparently only in Sweden, 1 in 30 muslims is already or will be convicted in a crime, whereas 1 in 3000 swedes (including non-swedish immigrants) will or was convicted. How about these stats? Do you understand the risks related to muslim immigration MATHEMATICALLY?

Minority in every country has a higher probability of committing crimes, therefore one should think of how to shrink this minority issue in the future.

BTW, since I am coming from industrial area, there is no difference whether or not there are foreign PhD students in Swedish Unies to the decision of selling or not selling stuff to chinese. SAAB always led the progress in the auto-business and still almost saw the tunnel with light in the end of it. (or 72 virgins?)

I believe that you tend to overestimate your "enormous" tax and progress contribution to this country.

Jes. Western immigrants are those who come from the 1st world. Clear? Now would you like me to explain what is immigrants from Eastern Europe?

Let me make it simple. Non - muslim immigrants pose less problems in the swedish society that the muslim ones. Throw them into one pot. Christian Syrians, Finns, Christian Lebanese, Indians, Koreans, Poles - everybody. Be my guest.
14:15 September 18, 2010 by gorgepir
You start talking about something and suddenly change it. You had no response to what I said, so instead of attacking the logic I put forward, you decided it made more sense to attack me and accuse me of being "scared" (bogus). That is because you lacked the logic to back up your claims. Had you had a minuscule amount of rationality, you would talk about the issue instead of attacking the person when you feel threatened. I could do that to, however I never called you anything.

Moderate muslims are not afraid, they do criticize but that wouldn't matter to you anyway would it? The only news you here out of the muslim world is what you want to here. How about the recent "green movement" in Iran. I guess you were not aware that moderate muslims tried to make their voices heard. Problem is it is always the loud and extreme that manages to get their voice heard over moderate and logical thinking people, like the SD or the extreme muslims.

I have no idea what you are saying about the west. You must be confusing my arguments with something else. Try to focus on what we are talking about.

Your statistical sample is too small to make a valid argument. That in Sweden (with its amazing 9 million population and lets say 450k muslims) muslims over represent in prisons is by no means close or comparable to lets say black in US prisons.

You can't make up the statistics just to fill your own wishes. The US has around 1% muslim popilation and Sweden 2. Now if your argument was really true (muslims are more prone to end up in jails compared to other groups) it would have been reflected in the US statistics too. Do you understand in order for what you say to be true it has to hold in another case too? Or could it be that your argument is only true because Sweden does not really have any real minority except muslims? Or you only want to believe that because it supports your personal views.

Argument debunked.

And of course there is a difference. When there is no workforce to do a job in a country, it is outsourced to another. If there are no more young Swedish engineers, and foreign students like myself are not available in the workforce, what will happen? Coming from a industrial area I guess you know that factories will shut down when there is no workforce available.

You are fine to think I overestimate my tax contribution (and even more proof as you have no logic behind your discussion that you insert enormous in quatation marks when I never did so, trying to imply I said I said enormous), that doesn't make it any more right. Sorry that logic and common sense is not on your side.
14:16 September 18, 2010 by Jes
Not clear !

How you define !st World ?

What do you mean by "come from" ?

Remember that you sometimes refer to "generations " and not origins

Here is what you wrote just 24 hours ago :

"What did you find? Street singers, who I really doubt are even immigrants? Or you found African Americans? Why ? Because they are close to Africans? Are you kidding me? These are westeners in 12th - 15th generation. How racist are you?

Yes, there is Dr. Alban and Zlatan (who actually is eastern European and goes under MY group of good immigration). Nobody said that 100% of immigrants from Africa and Middle East are bad or good"

NOW , what is one supposed to make out of this kind of dish ?

Which is which - is it immigrants that " come from the 1st World " or is a western immigrant that immigrant who " goes under YOUR group of good immigrants" ?

Nobody said that 100% of immigrants from Africa and the middle east are good or bad ?

And then the problem is not non-muslim immigrants but muslims ?

What next ?

Go on down -adjusting your list and you might end up with no one to hate .
17:46 September 18, 2010 by Uncle
gorgepir you did not answer WHAT topic did I leave and to WHAT did I jump? You just claim that I did it. Period. Could you be more specific and I would gladly whether come back to the topic that I left or to describe the connection that lead me from this previous topic to the current...

Now in regards to the population of muslims. How much is half a mil out of 10? Say again, mr. PhD? Isn't it 5%? Now, in regards to the amount of muslim composition in jails of Sweden... Isn't it about 60% of the 5K inmates currently in prison here?

Now according to Coucil of American Islamic relations there are 7M muslims in the US. According to Pew Research center 2.5M. Let say 5M, or 1,7%. Now it is known that about 18% of inmates in NY and California are muslims. Now in these states there is the biggest muslim population, so I would say it shows quite well the point.

In regards to the westen immigrants, I adressed Jes. Please pay attention.

Now, how the foreign PhD students improve local market? How? I agree on the sweidish ones. the ones who stay here. But foreign? Please explain the connection.
19:54 September 18, 2010 by gorgepir
I must say, I am actually becoming afraid that (what I see) your hate will guide you to doing something you will regret a long time behind bars.

I was having a discussion with Benny, which it seemed you were not apart of. Suddenly you entered the discussion on his side, and instead of responding to what I had just said, you stated I was scared and bla bla. I don't have to rewrite what was said before, go ahead and read for yourself. I did not respond to your earlier comment because I didnt fundamentally disagree with any part of it, yes Sweden needs better immigration laws. It was you suddenly talking instead of Benny that was a bit strange.

And regarding the statistics, sorry, I was using the Pew as my reference as the number of muslims in different countries, and just copy pasted the numbers they have. I mistakenly forgot to erase your estimate.


There it lists Sweden with about 2% muslims and US with about 0.8.

Oh, and don't make up statistics. "It is known that 18% of inmates in NY and California are muslims". Credible link or you are just lying.

The only link I have every seen about muslim percentages in jails was saying that 5% of muslims countrywide (in the US) are in prisons, which matches relatively ok with 0.8. Even though it is obviously a lot higher, it is not 60% which you claim. 5 or 10% does not equal to 60%.

But let us continue using your bogus numbers.

So 18% = 60%? I see. Or maybe it would be better to write 18*2 = 36 % = 60%. Because obviously if there were 2 times more muslims the percentage has to be doubled right? For example if there were 6 times more muslims in the US that must mean that 108% of the incarcerated are muslims. Tell me how you see these probabilities are "quite well the point" please. How about we make up some new numbers and say 60% of muslims in the US are in prison. Does that sound right to you?

And how a foreign PhD student affects local business? For example I am doing research funded by local and statewide companies, and my research belongs to them. So when I work at the university, they get to make patent on my work and sell what I do. I thought you were pro "right kind of immigrant". Which would mean that you would be pro holding on to a foreign PhD student (albeit non-muslim and I think preferably atheist).

But I don't expect you to understand how these things work. Ignorance is bliss.

Oh and did the fact that I have more education than you hurt? Awww, sorry about that. No need to bawww. .
05:13 September 19, 2010 by jazzIIIlove
Obviously, not all immigrants are badly behaved and try to help for the swedish economy. Though, e.g. while I was in T-Central today around 3 or 4 a.m., sadly, speaking an immigrant started to disturb Swedes and other locals waiting for the train, and it was very sad that he spitted deliberately in front of Swedes to frighten them. I am really sad when I see an immigrant doing this, that he can speak in Swedish, though, disturbing others, and seems as he couldn't integrate to this very culture that he and most probably his parents embraced.
10:51 September 19, 2010 by Uncle
gorgepir. You are confused. The line that I am pushing is that the "objective" moderate muslims refuse to criticize islamists, but invent 213 reasons why peaceful muslims become Islamists. EVERYONE is guilty but the muslims. The only reason that I find for that is that moderate ones are scared as hell.

West criticizes nazis, KKK, wars against muslims, what not. But muslims refuse to criticize their own radicals apart from some real exceptions. And these exceptions live in fear for their lives. Now you were talking about generalization of muslims (right?)

How one cannot generalize a group of people that does not criticize own radicals, elect terrorist organizations, go on riots consisting of tens of thousands if someone burns a book etc. Of course one could generalize. Especially given that muslims generalize non-stop.

Link to the stats btw: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1416712/posts

Here is another one (muslim-sided) says that there are 16% in NY http://www.soundvision.com/Info/yearinreview/2001/profile.asp

Now, one clearly does not see the difference between muslims in the US and Europe. Muslims in the US are mostly converts or not a first generation. In Europe these are people who come fresh from your wonderful and free countries. The point is that obviously a muslim is more prone to get to jail than any other member of any other group and this is really difficult to argue with.

Now in regards to PhD. You are FUNDED by the local business. They are PAYING to the university to make this research and you are gracefully leaving the research here. It is like saying that you are contributing to the swedish society by selling shoes here, because shoes that you sell are staying here.

Your research is a side effect of YOUR benefit and do not see it as a favor to this country (the way you see you income tax as a favor).

A swedish person in your stead would actually stay here and CONTINUE different researches, while you are back in Pakistan (assumption here) investing into their nuclear program, since nothing else is coming out of there.

As for your wonderful education jealousy... I would not like to go for a PhD even if would get paid 100K per month. That is for sure.

In my opinion, you are jealous of me, because I am good looking and ladies like me, at the same time I am making more money, whereas you live with your mom back where you com from. (equal assumption to yours)
14:45 September 19, 2010 by Marko2010S

It might be true that this generation of muslims immigrants refuse to criticize their own, but the next generation which will born and grow up in Sweden will criticize openly, and the third generation will criticize and fight them (If Sweden wants to).

Taking refugees inside the countries and giving them citizenships had very little to do with the West goodwill towards Muslims.

Therefore, Uncle please stop criticizing the current generation. You've told me literally that you never met "uncool" Muslims, and most of those who you met are loyal, friendly and have good sense of humer. Also, you said that you only blame the education system and how clerics are twisting the minds.

My point Uncle is: Don't expect much of the current muslims immigrants (As you called them: twisted minded). It is just illogical to expect sensible and civilized behavior from those.

Just wait 2 or 3 generations and trust me the kids and grandkids of those current immigrants will be one of the greatest treasures that Sweden owned. Mark my words buddy.
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