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Stockholm takes a stand for racial tolerance

AFP/The Local · 21 Sep 2010, 21:08

Published: 21 Sep 2010 04:53 GMT+02:00
Updated: 21 Sep 2010 21:08 GMT+02:00

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"It is very important to show that the big majority of the Swedish population is against the right-wing extremists like the Sweden Democrats," Per Branevig, 33, told AFP, adding that he had voted for the Social Democrats in Sunday's election.

"It has been a big shock for me that they got so many votes," he said of the anti-immigrant party that secured 5.7 percent of the vote.

At around 6pm up to 10,000 people, some waving banners stating "Yes to togetherness, No to racism" and "No racists in parliament," gathered in Stockholm's Sergels Torg, according to a police estimate.

The peaceful gathering was spontaneously organised by a 17-year-old girl from the Stockholm suburb of Sollentuna, Felicia Margineanu, who was so disappointed by the election results she posted a protest call on her Facebook page.

Sweden's ruling centre-right coalition won the most votes Sunday but fell short of a overall majority, as the Sweden Democrats nearly doubled their result from the last election and entered parliament for the first time, landing it in a key position in the Riksdag.

"We don't like those racists in the Riksdag. Being here shows the government that we care, that we don't want them (the Sweden Democrats) in parliament," said 18-year-old Younes Sedik, wearing a black T-shirt with orange lettering stating "I'm a Muslim. Don't panic!".

Standing near banners pointing out that "9,043,222 Swedes did not vote for the Sweden Democrats yesterday," and that "94.3 percent of the people are not racists," 21-year-old Thomas Zebuehr said he was "really unhappy" the extremists passed the four-percent barrier for entering parliament.

"I'm not sure what should be done, but something has to be done," he told AFP.

Story continues below…

A spontaneous demonstration against the Sweden Democrats also gathered in Sweden's second largest city Gothenburg Monday evening, with up to 1,000 people participating, the TT news agency reported.

Another large demonstration is planned to be held in Stockholm on October 4th.

AFP/The Local (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

05:32 September 21, 2010 by Tamales
Blah blah blah. A bunch of po'ed S voters. Why don't they ask themselves why SD's percentage has doubled in each of the last 3 elections?
06:09 September 21, 2010 by Rap43
"Why don't they ask themselves why SD's percentage has doubled in each of the last 3 elections?"

Because of funding and professional management by French, Dutch, Belgian and Danish handlers.

The demonstration makes me feel MUCH better about Sweden.
06:16 September 21, 2010 by Tamales
Wrong. But that's ok. Answers like that will assure the SD gets 10% next time.
06:46 September 21, 2010 by mieoux
Whatever, Swedes are nazis, if you're an immigrant only stay here on route to your new home country.
06:59 September 21, 2010 by Rebel
Swedes are not Nazies they are fascists! There is a difference you know -- most of those people demonstrating would welcome the government having the power to ban the SDs from being allowed to exist. So at least these Swedes are fascists which is ironic since they believe they are protesting fascism.
07:02 September 21, 2010 by mieoux
There are pictures of Swedish kings shaking hands with Hitler, and the only reason Sweden even exists is because they enabled Hitler's conquests. And today they carry on those same ideas espoused by Hitler. Why do you think they are not nazis again?
07:14 September 21, 2010 by flintis
@Rebel: a contradiction in a contradiction, are you confused? Banning SD? & here's me thinking we lived in a democratic society, so most of the people demonstrating would be ?? Communists

94.3% of the population are not racist?? Just because people didn't vote for SD does not mean they are not racist. If you look you will find more racism within the immigrant population than anywhere else. Just take a peek eg; Turks & Kurds really love each other.

@mieoux, can you recommend a country free from racism & political bigotry? Eutopia maybe?
07:18 September 21, 2010 by Nomark
This is pathetic. Swedes are no more racist than any other country.

I think this type of demonstration sends an incomplete message similar to that given by most politicians on election night. Its not enough to brandish one's anti-Nazi credentials and whine about "fighting the SD". The vast majority feel the same. However, a large number (maybe a majority ?) also feel that one should discuss why the SD received the support they did i.e. we ought to openly discuss immigration and integration policies.

A simple "we hate the SD" message will simply alienate further the voters who deserted all the major parties and it will do nothing to address the core issues which feed the SD support. Its not being racist to accept that integration policy is imperfect. If the mainstream leaders to too scared to even discuss this then they will gift the SD support. This issue must be taken away from the SD and addressed by the mainstream politicos. That is how one sends the SD back to electoral hell, not through people who would never vote for them anyway taking part in anti-SD protests.
07:26 September 21, 2010 by Argentox
There must be a good reason why these parties get into the parliaments all over Europe. In Hungary the "Jobbik" - which is same like the SD - got into the parliament in the 2010 elections with 16% ! Or in Finnland the "True Finns". They also got into with 9.8%. Or in French with Mr Sarkozy and the gypsies situation. Did u know the 92% of the prisoners in hungary are gypsys?

The fact is, that is something definitely wrong in EU. More and more people voting for these "racists" parties. Well, I can agree with them on some issues. For instance if someone comes to Sweden only to make a BIG family and live on supports and wellfare without working a minute, then they have nothing to do here. Whoever is coming here just to rip off the country ... of course we dont need them at all.

Neither we like it or not these parties are growing obviusly. The present government must deal with the immigration issue from outside of the EU area, or they will not be on power for very long, and in few generations down the line Sweden wont be Sweden anymore. But Sweden will be a country what we call Sweden, but the majority of the population will be .... (well you can figure that one out.)
07:32 September 21, 2010 by RobinHood
What Normark and Argentox said :)
08:31 September 21, 2010 by gorgepir
Sweden is no more racist than the rest of Europe is. In fact, 7000 people was the difference between SD getting in or not, which to me shows that Sweden is probably much less racist than its neighbors. Using race (or religion) to get votes is just a tool for a few people to ride the wave of issues that the society has not yet solved, to gain power. Had there had been proper discussions in Sweden about the role of immigrants and how to properly handle the immigration issue (which still to me needs an overhaul), very few of the right extremist would have gained support.

In fact most of the people I have talked to that did vote for SD were second or third generation immigrants, which to me shows that the base of right wing support is not Swedish originally, and the ideology is imported (of course this is only anecdotal evidence). I have also noticed that most are in their late 20's and early 30's, which further shows that they don't know/don't realize that they use the same arguments (population in jail, number of murders, number of thefts, ...) as the Nazi's did against the Jews. Or they know it and think that those were better times.

It is one of the (few) parts that has been overlooked and neglected in the Swedish system (to me), but I am sure that once the issue is analyzed, the best decision that maintains human dignity and their rights and is helpful for Sweden herself will be taken. That is what I have learned about Swede's, they may not have time to do something (or even forget because it wasn't an issue yet), but when they do it, they take all considerations into account (benefit of the society, human rights, equality and diversity, ...), and are by no means racists.

There is a lesson to be learned here. Society is very fragile, and constant vigilance is needed to maintain it working properly. It can easily fall victim to the same pitfalls that our previous generations did. It seems that few really learn lessons from the past.
08:31 September 21, 2010 by calebian22
"I'm not sure what should be done, but something has to be done,"

What needs to be done, was settled on Sunday. Democracy in action.
08:40 September 21, 2010 by Iraniboy
5 percents cannot do anything in practical. What most of these Swedes are concerned is the image of Sweden as a tolerant and very liberal country which is cdistorted by an abolute minority.


Democracy is good but don't forget that democracy chose Hitler so it is not always reliable ;)
08:42 September 21, 2010 by martysmarty
I just have to respond to this (Specially made an account for it:))

First of all: No, I did not/will not be voting for SD.

However! If the new gouverment won't take some of their issues into an account, next election, SD will probably get up to 18% of all votes.

This is EXACTLY what happened in The Netherlands, with the PVV party. 4 years ago they got 9 seats (out of 150), and were pretty much ignored (like SD now). Last election, in July this year, guess what, they got 24 seats out of 150! That is nearly 20% of all votes. And in fact, at this moment, they are still trying to form a majority gouverment, which will in fact include the PVV. The same will happen here, if the parties won't take them seriously.

People say: "94.3 voted against SD". No, they did not, they just voted for a different party, they they agree more with. Voting for Moderaterna (like I did), does not mean you are voting against, or in fact are against the Green Party. No. In fact, I believe the Green Party has some good issues, which need to be raised. However, I voted Moderaterna, because they have more issues which I agree on. For one thing, please get the EURO ASAP :)

People don't seem to understand that 5.7% of Sweden may not be ignored!

People want to keep SD out of Riksdag. Alright, but than you will also have to keep out all other parties with less than 5.7%, meaning Left and KD will have to go out aswell.

You may not agree with SD yourself, but many people do. more than 5.7% do, but alot of people will have voted different, because they agree more with a different party.
08:42 September 21, 2010 by Nomark
What I would like to see is a cross-party commission inviting expert opinion on integration and immigration as well as soliciting views from the general publc. There is too much rhetoric and not enough factual information in this debate.

There are many points which need to be clarified before deciding on any course of action.

(1) The need for immigration for future pension liabilities. Everything I've read suggests that immigration is needed here. I can't think of a better way of defending it than with this argument.

(2) Crime statistics. In which areas are immigrants from specific groups overrepresented and underrepresented ?

(3) What is the geographical distribution of immigrants from specific groups ?

(4) How immigration contributes to the economy and where they are a drain.

(5) The public's perception of immigration and how this agrees with/conflicts with the factual evidence.

+ lots more points

Each of the above may be politically loaded questions but can,to an extent, be studied with a careful and unbiased methodology. A lot of people may well be surprised by the results which emerge.

Starting from a factual basis one can then discuss what has gone right and what has gone wrong. This is essential before deciding on the way forward. If politicians continue to play party-politics with immigration then the issue is going to get worse...
08:43 September 21, 2010 by Marko2010S

We don't want demonstrations and hypocrisy. Enough is enough. We want you to hire your fellow Swedes who have Arabic names. We want you to stop looking down on east europeans, no need for the usual condescending attitude toward others.
08:45 September 21, 2010 by wenddiver
Sonds like more than a few Swedes voted a serious NO to being added to the islamic caliphate.
08:57 September 21, 2010 by rugla
Why is it that the minute anyone brings immigrations issues you are called a Nazi or racist? A great portion of the Sverige Democratic vote came from young voters, try to understand why?

When was the last time they got a free furnished apartment, and funds to live? Many kids are barely making it, and have a tough time finding jobs, economic crisis, etc, it is also too easy to live off welfare thanks to the Social Democrats.

There are single mothers living close to the poverty line here in Sweden, then they hear arguments like, we need the fork force, Swedes are not reproducing as much, well they don´t have time they have to go to work to fund for the migration population to come and live off welfare, it is a vicious circle, and there is resentment amongst them, I do not blame them, don't agree with them 100% but do not blame them!

We are non confrontational by nature and afraid of being labeled, but the vast majority of Swedes feel this way, we are just too chicken to express it!

Thus why you see this movement, Swedes are not against race, we are against abuse and dysfunction of the system, and let's face it is not working and something has to give, sad as it might seem to many of us, the movement will continue unless we take care of our own young first, then think about taking care of others, people our house is not in order.

We Swedes are losing our identity and it is going fast!, and that is what the small movement is about, and unless something is done and the more we label them as Nazis, fascist, racist, the bigger it will become, we need to understand the issue, and work with it, rather than fight a label.
08:58 September 21, 2010 by EtoileBrilliant

Point 1 - Respectfully you're wrong on this one. Sweden has a fully funded pension system unlike the Ponzi schemes operated by every other G20 country. In terms of healthcare for the elderly you may have a point but I would counter that any economy that relies on pyramid scheme mathematics is inherently flawed unless you have a plague that takes out most of the world's elderly every 20 years or so.

The one point that no one seems to remark on is the birth rates for immigrant groups across Europe is disproportionately high when compared to the more indigenous population. No one wants to see their share of the gene pool shrinking at the expense of other groups, especially when its their tax dollar subsidizing their babies.
08:58 September 21, 2010 by calebian22

We are a long way to Hitler in Sweden. Reasonable refugee and immigration policies will make SD disappear. Problem solved.
09:08 September 21, 2010 by riose

Reasonable integration policies also. Maybe the problem are not the immigrants, but the system who failed to integrate them.
09:10 September 21, 2010 by Nomark

My choice of words wasn't great. I meant public services. The problem is that these things are difficult though not impossible to calculate, if one includes some measure of uncertainty.

You illustrated my point (for me at least) that we all need a better set of facts.
09:17 September 21, 2010 by underskyofsweden
I think that these kind of demonstrations really works but indirect and gradually. It sounds good to see many people at least DISSATISFIED of what happened during the recent elections. It has a great message for the parliament that most of people are accompanying them in ban of cooperation with SDs!
09:18 September 21, 2010 by calebian22

Sweden has the most generous refugee and immigrant policies in Europe. It is time for the new Swedes to take some personal responsibility.
09:21 September 21, 2010 by Nomark
I don't think that the SD-boycott was anyway criticised.

I return to my earlier point. Its not enough with a one-dimensional "we hate the SD"-message. Why will this persuade people who voted for them this time to change their minds next time ? After all, such a demonstration is effectively a criticism of them.
09:25 September 21, 2010 by Niggletriple
The Swedish have voted and spoke! By electing the Sweden Democrates into power, tells us that a signifcant percentage of the population are dissatisfied with recent immigration policies. Mainstream parties should acknowledge this dissatisfaction and limit immigration to a sensible level.
09:27 September 21, 2010 by Kanedaa
I blame the former and current rikdag for not speaking to the people or addressing their concerns about immigration, they put their fingers in their ears and say "lalala we're not listening" for fear of being called racist.

I bet most of the new votes for SD were protest votes. I also feel the word racist has been hijacked and is used against people who are genuinely concerned about the problems with the immigration system and not the immigrants themselves.

No matter what people say immigration will always be a problem and finding the best path to integrate immigrates is difficult and may cause upset but something does need to be done to stop SD becoming more powerful.

If the government refuses to talk about immigration and answer questions they will only make the problem worse.
09:28 September 21, 2010 by Mirrorman
decency will have its way in the end. a racist is an uneducated waste of air who has never won and will never win.

its no surprise to see so many of my fellow americans on here as we have some of the dumbest people on earth. shameful but they are entitled to their views. 99% of the worlds good people dont listen to them anyway.

long live tolerance,
09:29 September 21, 2010 by samwise
so the get-along-at-all-cost enlightened geniuses end up refusing to get along with some evolutionary nationalists. They appear to believe there are boundaries with tolerance, but watch out if your boundaries are in disagreement with theirs.
09:50 September 21, 2010 by Localer
sick sick sick ! why don't they just accept that fact that Skane population want less immigration ??? ?
09:53 September 21, 2010 by Davidze
"For instance if someone comes to Sweden only to make a BIG family and live on supports and wellfare without working a minute, then they have nothing to do here. Whoever is coming here just to rip off the country ... of course we dont need them at all. "

And how about those who come to Sweden, but they don't even have any work permit (if you got your work permit, try to find a job here in Sweden)? they are sitting somewhere in the villages, getting money from Migrationsverket, eating and doing nothing. Why they do nothing? because they don't have any rights here. They go to dentist and dentist just delete tooth. Healthy tooth where they MUST repair this tooth, they delete it. Reason is: you are refugee.

Refugees no University, Refugees no any help with adaptation and social life. I want to learn Swedish, but I can not. I try at home. I have sent many letters to universities, to the schools, to Migrationsverket, but answer is NO. You can't study here. I'm in Sweden since November 2009 and i already love this country. I think this is a beautiful country with beautiful people, but something got to change in Migration politics.

By the way, who is Refugee?

Under the United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees from 1951, a refugee is a person who (according to the formal definition in article 1A of this Convention), "owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country".



I know my english is poor, but i hope you understand what i mean)
10:07 September 21, 2010 by Iraniboy

I agree. Sweden has the least number of far-rights than other countries even now. The problem is it hs more people who care too much about their liberal values and cannot tolarete this anti-liberals being their representatives. They all care about their image.
10:34 September 21, 2010 by Uncle
Davidze, look at the UN agreement in regards to this. Refugees have a full right to ask for refuge in counttries NEIGHBOURING to their own country. Are you from Norway, or Finland?

What is so sweet to see is that THIS demonstration is not attacked by the aggressive racists and lynchers, but SD flyer distributors ARE attacked by the loving and antiracist peace advocates.

Like the one demonstration in support of Israel that was attacked with stones by the peace and friendship lovers, but those 50 in support of Hezbollah and Hamas were not attacked by the oppressive and aggressive Jews.

But it is cool. One cannot call himself a peace lover forever, while being the main thug, racist and lyncher of the country.
10:39 September 21, 2010 by mac_007
The people who are talking about racist , i am sure they are all worry about the social money and how to the cheat and get more money with doing nothing. For example Lazy People, Muslims, Iran , Iraq , all refugee's and asylum's.

Hail Sweden!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hail SD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is SD is first chance to the Riskdag,

Let every do good from them in the future..
10:40 September 21, 2010 by hpunlimited
When the established politicians blame things like "fear" as a reason for people voting for SD, then we understand how far from reality the established politicians are. And we will see how SD will grow the coming years along with the problems that we have in society.

If the politicians continue to put their head in the sand like this, things will only get worse. I am not sure if it is from stupidity, refusal to see reality or simply that the lost the touch with the public. I heard on the radio yesterday, that a huge amount of immigrants had voted for SD. Immigrants themselves that see the problems that Sweden has and maybe with new fresh eyes.

Jimmy Åkesson is showing civil courage is a very brave man that is standing up for his country, that is doing exactly what our democracy wants our politicians to do.

Jimmy Åkesson will force these politically correct and ignorant politicians to discuss immigration policies instead of calling everyone a racist every time the subject comes up. Seeing these 5000 people demonstrating yesterday in Stockholm made me realize how far from reality people really are and how sad it is to see these people with double morals and how very far from reality they are.

This morning we can also read about how SDs members list have been hacked and spread around and encouragement to harass these voters because of their political belief.

This was a was made from a encouragement from Lars Ohly, live on TV to now take "non parliamentary action" against SD and turn into extremism and terrorism against Swedish voters. And the criminal leftwing is now doing things that a lot of immigrants fled from in Cuba, Colombia, North Korea, Soviet Union and more. And making Sweden a unsafe place to be and a place were democracy is not king and is corrupted
10:58 September 21, 2010 by Marko2010S
calebian22 #24

"Sweden has the most generous refugee and immigrant policies in Europe. It is time for the new Swedes to take some personal responsibility."

I think you are either a blind enough or a super goon to say that.

Taking refugees and giving them citizenships had very little to do with Swedes goodwill towards Africans, Muslims and Arabs in general.

So, zip your face and stop babbling like a jester.
11:17 September 21, 2010 by calisdboi
So as a SD supporter I have to say why I backed them...

Since the big focus is on immigration here I'll comment why I support SD's views. Sweden brings in VAST amount of immigrants each year for a country with this small a population. Problem is the economy does not make enough low skilled jobs each year to support the employment rates, thus making a situation like in some of the suburbs of Sthlm with 50% unemployment. This gives no incentive to work as you can live quite comfortably here on the welfare system. A family that immigrates and doesnt work is a large burden on tax payers, think about a family with 3 kids,all are in school, on welfare, housing subsidies,etc. Just that family alone can be a large expense, compound it over the years and many families on the same system and you have a problem. Seeing as how they dont consume as they dont have the money to they dont pay into the tax base or pay any real income taxes. This is the situation yet every year Sweden bring tens of thousands more and these people get locked in a life of poverty. Remember this, every dollar spent on these families doesn't go towards pensioners, education, infrastructure, etc. When will this system buckle? Not today but at current rates, 20 years? Sweden will be the new South Africa as this is exactly what happened there.

Point being... this is not about racism but pure economics. A small country like sweden can't support the poor and downtrodden of the world without taking away from what made it the economic power it is now... educated and hard working populace. What we are being replaced with is an uneducated and cradle to grave welfare populace.

Agree or don't agree, just my view and the views of many of my friends who are SD supporters.
11:18 September 21, 2010 by Uncle

"Taking refugees and giving them citizenships had very little to do with Swedes goodwill towards Africans, Muslims and Arabs in general."

So what does it have to do then? With the enormous economical contribution of the mentioned above groups? With their contribution towards religious tolerance? Crime reduction perhaps? Maybe the oily kebab is the reason of a free-for-all citizenship?

Oh, no, I know... people would just like to get rid of their car with getting insurance money,,, All they must do is to park it in Malmö and the cash is in the pocket!

hold on, hold on... Why would the greedy swedes lure the arabs and africans to the trap of Sweden? I got it! It is done in order to be able to sell spices in Coop! Otherwise there is a very low market for pepper and Tabasco.
11:21 September 21, 2010 by rumcajs

I don't like SD, I strongly disagree with them and with you and guess what........ , since I finished my studies I've been alway working or looking for a job and I have NEVER in my life requested social money or anything like that. Shut ya face!
11:25 September 21, 2010 by Qasqot75
we should rather stop arguing on what is right or wrong i think if this kind of trend continues in sweden we might have to form another party like 'UNITY PARTIET' OR 'MUSLIMDEMOKRATERNA' OR 'INVANDRARE PARTIET'
11:26 September 21, 2010 by judoflares
Its a shame to see that people here are actually racist and proud of it.

I guess that these individuals know very few forigners.

You will also find that most asylum seekers would rather stay in their own countries but for wester powers ambition to blow these countries to bits, steal all the natural wealth and expect the people to become slaves to the new imposed market.

If the wester powers would leave these countries alone then maybe we wouldn't have our own self created imigration problem.

I hope the raciast stay true to their word and only have swedish clothes, cars , food and don't have a thing to do with forigen imports and see how fun their lives they are use to become. try finding a vegetable or fruit in sweden in the winter
11:37 September 21, 2010 by Audrian
I agree Sweden is generous with refugees, but this is not to be exaggurated to mean the standard of living of the Swedish peope or the young is affected. This can be explained using hypothetical figures. Assume that 20,000 refugees are given handouts.
11:40 September 21, 2010 by bocagill
I will say that i would never vote for SD because of their core belief but in the last couple of years they have been saying what most swedish people believe, that something has to be done to control imigration problem,also reading the comments here of some people that 94.3% of sweden is not racist is bull crap because i have been living here for six years now and i find swedish people are more racist then americans, because they like to sweep it under the table and dont say much in public
11:45 September 21, 2010 by donaswe
The only racist are communists the they have ever shot to the political competitors. Doyou need some example?...Red Brigades, Rote Armee Fraktion, Ira, Eta, Plo...etc. etc....The killers of Theo Van Gogh, Anna Lindh, Pym Fortuyn, Aldo Moro....et. etc.....The only racism is that oh who doesn't want a free ideas expressio! COMMUNIST=ISLAMIST=!
11:51 September 21, 2010 by judoflares
why worry about a few billion in handouts. be more concerned about the multi billion taken in bankers bonus' every year. whay dont the racist pigs complain about that. They take a lot more money than the fugies
11:59 September 21, 2010 by Bork
Agree with Nomark (#8), martysmarty (#14), calebian22 (#20), judoflares

Riose: It's both. Sweden's door has been wide open and the benefits they provide to the newcomers are quite generous. However, they never demand anything from those they invite in nor make sure jobs are there for them. So the new population grows disconnected and the native Swedes and those who came here through work rightly feel that their tax money is being increasingly used up by people who are not contributing to the same system. That the people the government has allowed in are living off of their work.

The government needs to be responsible and control the amount of asylum seekers and immigrants, what benefits they can receive and for how long, and tackle the high unemployment. Then, as many have said above, the appeal of the Swedish Democrats begins to fade. If both coalitions ignore this and the problem continues to grow, so will the popularity of the Swedish Democrats unfortunately. Also, as judoflares points out, the large influx of asylum seekers comes with the wars. The US, UK, and their allies (and the silent ally Sweden), have brought war to the middle east, people fled, and some went to Sweden. Sweden shouldn't be responsible for the refugees fleeing war torn areas that they are not responsible for however. So, they need to review their policies. It's simply not fair for the Swedish citizens nor the people who will be stuck on the margins of a country unable to find work.
12:00 September 21, 2010 by Marko2010S
@Uncle #38

"So what does it have to do then?"

I think you are cleaver enough to find out by yourself. Whatever you mentioned in your post #38 is completely wrong, and I guess you know that very well.

Anyways, I will tell you why Sweden takes refugees and has a "generous refugee and immigrant policies" as that clown (calebian22) claimed.

According to Wikipedia Sweden is 449,964 km2 with population about 9,354462 (2009 census), which means, during 1950s the population was about …. goons? You tell me Uncle….

There are many benefits Sweden has made out of the poor refugees and immigrants. But sadly many people can't see that because they are just looking to the surface.

A group of people with fertility rate about 1.29 lives in a huge land that is (Almost) permanently dark and cold with some reindeers ….. Do you call this a country or even do you consider the goons who live there in such conditions alive….

Uncle, no need to deny the fact that without immigrants there is simply NO life ! Period!

Of course, I am not saying that immigrants have built Sweden or contributed significantly to its economy or its R&D.

But immigrants made Sweden a vibrant place that human beings can live in.

Of course, you can argue and drag many issues like the way of selecting immigrants and the policy of Canada or New Zealand, But I consider that invalid argument and I don't buy it, because each country has its own interests.

Some countries are basically bunch of shepherds. That's why they wanted highly skilled immigrants to build the country.

Other countries, basically grandkids of exiles and prisoners, That's why they wanted special kind of immigrants to build the society.

So when it comes to immigration, there is NO one plan or policy that fits to all countries.

Also, do NOT justify your argument by telling me look at countries NEIGHBOURING. I don't care what Finland or Norway do.

Each country has its own goals, and Sweden plays its card very well. Because they got what they want (Many immigrants). Also, have wonderful reputation that they are great tolerant country with amazing multicultural diversity.
12:17 September 21, 2010 by Bostonexpat
bocagill -- "Swedish people are more racist than americans" ..because they sweep the topic under the table?!?!? I'm trying to follow your logic...I can't

I live in Sweden, absolutely love the USA but will say in no way is Sweden more racist than the US. Racism, unfortunately , is in every corner of the world. Pointing the finger at Sweden or the western world as @ judoflares continually does is just a weak pathetic victim mentality. Be constructive and ask why this this occurred and no, the answer isn't a rant about Sweden being racist.
12:36 September 21, 2010 by Swedesmith
I heard of no reports of anyone chanting, "Death to the SD's". Nor did I see of any reports of the crowd dragging a effigy of Jimmy Åkesson to the fire. Just saying....
12:46 September 21, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
After a gradual rise - successively getting representation at the municipal and commune level, the SD's strong showing in the parliamentary elections has succeeded in polarising the country, overnight.

The SD has done one good service to the Swedish nation: it has now got everybody to focus on immigration – and serious deliberation on this - with a problem solving mentality , is now inevitable. We are talking about at least a million tax-paying “foreigners”, here in Moder Svea and perhaps a few hundred thousand more to come– and Sweden-Democratically thinking with just a modicum of commons sense, to add to the army of the unemployed and the many people without a place to live. No hypocrisy, it's a general understanding...even if that's not the whole of the story of what the immigrant CAN contribute and IS contributing and HAS contributed to Sweden.

I got quite a shock. Yesterday, in the company of a few African Americans and Africans - all good friends - we got to discussing the Sweden Democrats – me of the opinion that we gotta talk to them – as my Swedish friend Peter says, after all more than 300,000 people have voted for them and they are now in the Swedish Parliament – whilst they ( my African and African-American brothers ) are more inclined to believe that the SD is a Nazi party, which in my opinion, to date, they are certainly not.

What is the alternative to talking? The SD certainly have a point - a reasonable point about the necessity of restricting / controlling immigration - and there is no party in the Swedish parliament that believes there should be unrestricted immigration. What is unfortunate is the racist overtones in some of the utterances from some members of the SD, even if their leader Jimmie Åkesson has taken a distance to the racial slurs in that kind of wording. The SD leader also explained on TV4 last night, that the downsizing of the immigration quota by 90%, is with reference to the relatives of refugees - not to the refugees themselves - the first arrivals – and the SD is making a request and an observation that is fairly mainstream EU thinking : about giving aid at source, to improve conditions in 3rd World countries from which most economic refugees hail, to stem the flow to the richer shores in Europe. The reality is that given half a chance the whole of the poorer world would like to emigrate to countries like Sweden

Having looked through their election brochure, the only thing I personally feel uncomfortable about is the term “ illegal immigrant” - which is surely a case for the immigration police and perhaps a general amnesty can be extended to such people, by a government (of the people for the people by the people ) that is perhaps capable of being more generous when it comes the numbers that may enter the country, legally. The idea of “Illegal immigrants” as appears in the SD's brochure should not give rise to a general paranoia among the general Swedish legal public that every immigrant-looking ( non- Swedish looking) person is an “ illegal immigrant” who should be reported to the nearest police station.

An article in Svenska Dagbladet tells us that the rise of the SD is due to ignorance on the part of the general public. Ignorance could be a contribution to their cause or even part of the reason for their existence but the social reality in Malmö, where great numbers of Muslims are ghettoised is also cause for concern.

This has merely fanned the flames, about Islam. The ignorance about Islam is also a major stumbling block for peaceful, law-abiding Muslims who live within the Swedish realm. There is so much misinformation about Islam and much of it is deliberate distortion of the religion by its enemies; much of it is anti-Islamic, islamophobic propaganda, the collective impact of which is aimed at stoking fear of and a distaste for Muslims and Islam, because of bad things done by a few adherents of that religion.

Should OUR SWEDEN get the reputation as a racist country it would be bad , not only for

international relations and our international image, but also bad for business and a great fall for the country, a fall from the positive image it has enjoyed up to now.

As a result of a dialogue with the SD, not least of all in parliament, some of the racial rhetoric should be toned down to acceptable “rumsren” level and to the point at which talk gets translated to policy – and its implementation.
12:56 September 21, 2010 by bocagill
@ bostonexpat- I am trying to figure out how blinded you are about sweden because most immigrants have a hard time founding jobs, especially in small towns, I have talk to many people from small towns around sweden and the one answer i get is they don't trust immigrants and would never hire them. I am from a small city and if a bike gets stolen the one place you will find it is the immigrant area aslo grocery store here have been catching a lot immigrants shoplifting, i will say it is sad what is happening maybe you can blame in swedish society i do but the reason the SD are becoming more popular is beacause of small towns like my town. something has to be done or the SD will become more popular every year and then what happens. I think people that write on here must be from stockholm or big citys in sweden
13:25 September 21, 2010 by B-dogg.
I think it's brilliant SD did well in the elections and I'm and immigrant. Tired of the topic of immigration being pushed under the carpet by the rest of Sweden's politically correct parties who don't have the balls to touch this subject openly and honestly.

People voting for SD aren't necessarily racist but more likely to be angry. Angry at the way their Swedish identities are flushed down the toilet and replaced by something alien. I would like to see Per Branevig or Felicia Margineanu organize protests in Australia or North America against political parties who want to bring forth the concerns of their indigenous populations. The boot would surely be on the other foot and they would be the ones being called racist.
13:26 September 21, 2010 by Uncle
" wester powers ambition to blow these countries to bits, steal all the natural wealth and expect the people to become slaves to the new imposed market."

"If the wester powers would leave these countries alone then maybe we wouldn't have our own self created imigration problem. "

Yep. Somalia for example. Never colonized ot conquered. Never bombed (besides one weak attempt to save some hundreds of thousands, after some million died from muslim imposed hunger). Or shall we take Afghanistan that sponsored the attacks on USA? Should the west let muslims to bomb it to stone age with no answer? How about Iran, where muslims caused the escape of hundreds of thousands? What about the kurds who are bombed with napalm by muslims?

Now, for the countries that are the little poor victim of vicious empires, like Iraq… How is Sweden responsible for it? Should it pay for the wars of ALL europeans? How racist are you? So it MUST accept immigrants from Vietnam, Argentina, Bosnia, Croatia, Algiers, Tunisia, Egypt, entire central and south Africa, China, India and the list is going… Why Sweden is responsible here?


PRECISELY. You are absolutely and utterly correct. Each country has it's own interests in their policy making. These interests are not cemented. They are changing.

Right now the interests ARE changing. People apparently had enough of "vibrancy and life". What they would like is dark and quiet goon nights in front of SVT 1. Now you gonna tell me that this policy is NOT acceptable by you and what IS acceptable is bringing in hundreds of thousands of vibrant people? Sweden closes and this is what democracy is. Want to accept everyone who has it hard? Varsågod. Don't want? No problemo. Close the borders. What is the problem ?
13:55 September 21, 2010 by Marko2010S

Exactly this is my point!

Taking refugees and giving them citizenships had very little to do with Swedes goodwill towards Africans, Muslims and Arabs in general.

Therefore, I do NOT accept that anyone to claim that Sweden was doing immigrants a favor as that bloody-freak (calebian22) was doing. We both agreed that Swedes have interests.

NOW, after Swedes achieved their goals (After immigrants made Sweden a better place that human beings can live in), Swedes want to change their policy. I never ever deny them the right to do so.

But never ever tell me Sweden did a favor to anyone !

All in all, what Swedes did considered as stabbing in the back for immigrants.

Is this the way you reward the fellow people who made your country an international place.

Well, my dad used to tell me that "People are like minerals": some of them are priceless like diamond (A metaphor to decribe good mannered people), and others are worthless like coal (A metaphor to decribe low level people).

I believe that human beings know where to categorize Swedes.

P.S. My opinion is NOT generalizing all Swedes.
14:41 September 21, 2010 by Syftfel
@Cornelius Hamelberg: You need to be taught how to write in shorter paragraphs. A forum like this is not for epic dissertations. It is for sharp and quick commentary. I can never even finish reading one of your contributions, and thus they loose their impact. They're much too tedious. If you can't say it in ten lines or less, don't say it. PS. It is interesting to watch the Social Dems and the rest of the left trying to put democratic principles out of commission, when the election doesn't go their way.
15:33 September 21, 2010 by Uncle
Naa, Marko. You are a demagogue again.

It is exactly like say:

A monk goes by an alcoholic who is laying in snow and is about to die and saves that guy by dragging him to the monastery or an hour on his back. If the warmed up, fed and taken care of alcoholioc tells a funny joke to the monk, then he totally redeemed himself? Did the monk not do a favor to the dying alcoholic?

Did the somalian redeem themselves because there is "Doggy Doggylitto" who is also an immigrant? Should Iraqis not thank the Swedes, because there is "Sean Banan"? These are the only people who I could think of as "vibrant" and impacting the society in Sweden. Not much eh?

Let's say like this, would Swedes suffer more than the immigrants IF the immigrants who were, supposedly in danger of death, would not come here? I mean, by missing the vibrance, would the swedes not survive, while immigrants would have a long and wonderful life back where they cam from?

If the balance is on immigrant side here, then they SHOULD thank the swedes.
15:35 September 21, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
My dear Syftel,

William Faulkner is my favourite author. You could try to teach me how to write shorter paragraphs. or learn how to write some, yourself.

I’m assuming that you are one person or maybe a conglomerate of interests; in either case my message is simple: just ignore whatever you don’t like (as Jesus has told you in the King James Version of the Bible, “And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:”

I myself barely have time to go through the New York Times….or even this (sounds like SD doesn’t it?):


To Uncle and Hagrid:

I’ll get back to take on a few points that you raised. In the meantime, here’s something to chew and digest: it’s the early warning system at half mast and blaring:


I’m still looking through some of this:

15:49 September 21, 2010 by Uncle
Dear Cornelius.

Syftfel has a point... You are writing for others. Not yourself, right?

In your search in Google, write the following in the search window. "Ted Ekeroth".

After you read all the info that you need, get into relaxed nirvana mode and enjoy some good book and a single malt with a bit of water.
16:42 September 21, 2010 by Bostonexpat

You are correct that I live outside of Stockholm..but I'm not blinded as a result. I've seen first hand how broken the integration and immigration system is here and agree that it can be very difficult to get a job as an immigrant...But I disagree with you that in anyway the society here can be blamed for people shoplifting or stealing a bike. The solution isn't to cry victim.
16:49 September 21, 2010 by calebian22
Marko has spoken! We can always count on your goon and lumpen comments. You brought them early to the game this time, though. The election of SD really must be bothering you. Unfortunately for you, calling me or anyone else names doesn't make you correct.
17:06 September 21, 2010 by mac_007

here i am not saying about one person , there many people not like you .,,

so SD has only 20 members in parliament, so don't bother about them.

This is democracy country and globalized country so each and every human will be watching about if really something went wrong.

let be explored themselves around the world.
17:17 September 21, 2010 by jazzIIIlove
Could anyone explain me why Hitler skipped Sweden in WWII?
17:48 September 21, 2010 by spela
just put us all imigates in the same basket, we all all dirty, corupt and lazy...

but swedish so prfect, so pure rase...

now is the time to stop imagration, when they allready build whole coultry for them....

they like to forgetthat... before us- sweden was hillbilly coultry!

dont worry sweeds soon you will be gone, when we mulltipy and marry swedish!

you are on a good way doing it your selfs! most of girls marry nonswedish man, and guys too... searching for thiland girs who will cook for them, well who is lazy now ha?

i know i know there is alot of swedish people where theirs apartments are a dump! its not only like that in fitja and rinkiby ! so?! who is realy here uncivilised?

there is alot of fine swedish people, but most of them.... well dont want to get my comment deleted....
18:07 September 21, 2010 by spela
Comment: i would like to add that when i say in my coultry i live in sweden, they think that live in such tolerant coultry, best in europe! they say oh you made it! biggest lie in the world! good actors i say!!! ive never felt in my life like second class citizen, and I was poor in my coultry! nobody look down on me, like swedish do when i open my mouth and see i just look like one, but i can do everything i can- and still i will never be! poor people born here that have imagrated parents, will never be exepted. amagine beeing in between ... sad , you sad people , a feel bad for you is not your fault that you were born like that and your mamas didnt love you!
18:56 September 21, 2010 by Marko2010S
@jazzIIIlove #62

As long as Sweden's Iron Ore was allowed to be traded into Germany and Hitler were happy, So no need to waste time.
19:52 September 21, 2010 by americana1
Just a question:

How do you all feel about Swedish émigrés? That is, the Swedes who left Sweden in droves to try to make a better life for themselves and their families in America in the 19th century? About 1.3 million Swedes left Sweden for the U.S. There were certainly unemployed native-born Americans at the time, and the new arrivals surely strained the country's resources. Should the U.S. have let them in?
20:01 September 21, 2010 by donaswe
@ americana1 : Would you want to compare swedish immigration with african/medio oriental/islamic immigration?....Are you drunk?
20:30 September 21, 2010 by Uncle
she is drunk

First of all, swedes had their own colonies in the US East coast. Name was "New Sweden". So there have been swedes there for as long as the brits and the french were.

As for the descendants of the immigration beginning of the 20th century (like Jake Gyllenhaal, Carl Sandburg, Uma Thurman, Kim Basinger, Buzz Aldrin).

I saw one Jul in New York. Arriving in Lexuses and Bentleys, top investment bankers, music producers, film directors, startup CEOs. Their wifes sparkle like a morning ocean with diamonds.

At the same time some descendants of african and muslim immigration were parking their cars. Reading about the swedish immigration and how difficult it was for them in the beginning and what they became, one understands the difference between "immigrations"...
20:52 September 21, 2010 by cowboykodp

Now you are starting to sound like the dumb, uneducated, (I cant even find enough adjectives) , that everyone is already convinced that you are.

I suggest you not comment on the US, unless you're a Patriot.

African and muslims in the US are among the most successful of all Americans. Even more successful than Swedish or Jewish "descedants".

You can keep insisting on how "UNRACIST" you are and ISLAM BASH as much as you like, but keep your greasy fingers off the USA.
20:53 September 21, 2010 by Byggare Bob
Political correctness is often falsely bandied about as a view that is expressing what "everyone" is thinking and erroneously presumed to apply to specific attitudes or opinions, when it in fact in practice simply refers to the deviation from the norm.

To illustrate my point. In say Vellinge, it is politically correct to say refugees are good for nothing parasites, in most of the rest of Sweden it is not. In Vellinge it is politically incorrect to say that all people have are of equal human value, in most of the rest of Sweden it is not - that is all it means and is not the reserve of any fixed set of opinions.

In Fagersta it is politically correct to say Lars Ohly is the most competent political leader in Sweden, in most of the rest of Sweden it is not. In Fagersta it is political incorrect to say that capitalism is good for welfare, in most of the rest of Sweden it is not.

Every group - Left, Right or in between - has its own set of issues that place constraints on discourse according to a sliding scale of political correctness.

You get my point.

My question is: Do we want a majority society when the "politically correct" views of Vellinge dictate the debate?

Let's keep SD incorrect. Don't need to ignore them, don't need to suppress them, but do need to remember that their "truth" is simply the truth of their group - representing now 5.7% of Sweden - no more, no less.

BTW, yes I do know Vellinge enjoys low taxes. But it is also one of the most conservative, paranoid, dull and oppressive places in Sweden.
20:56 September 21, 2010 by Kaethar
@americana1: I don't see what that has to do with anything but most Swedes see them as traitors. :/ It's not seen as weird in Sweden to work abroad for a few years if you get a good job but moving permanently overseas = being a traitor. Don't forget that Sweden is a very conformist society. Once someone has "left the club" so to speak they've quite literally "left the club" and their descendents will not be seen as Swedish.
21:27 September 21, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
Dear Uncle and his main sponsor Syftfelm

You have your point and he or she or whatever she is has her point. Now try to get this point: What you don't or cannot read, is not for slow readers....
21:59 September 21, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg

You too (the two of you)

if you're not very careful

you will soon be reading

the long or even longer

history of oppression of the White Man

by the Black man by Black Power!
23:47 September 21, 2010 by Uncle

Reading your pearls feels a bit dirty... Like talking to an old hooker. WHAT a luck that muslim world is filled with aggression and poison like this that gets out with the little helpers like yourself. Otherwise people would really think you for equality and peace lovers...

What is as well interesting is the blaming of RACISM while claiming that certain RACES did it better than other races. Really? Really better than EVEN Jews?

Wow, you are just amazing... You got me there... You revealed me to the public... EVEN MORE SUCCESSFUL than the Jews? Well, you Hitler youth, you are really proved your image as a non-racist, free of prejudice young man...

And the way you command so naturally not to talk about something? Wow, applauds in the crowd ;"Schweigen jetzt!!! Sie werden jetzt nicht sprechen! Sie sollten sagen, nur nette Dinge über USA! Schnell, schnell, klettern in den Zug!!"

Freedom of speech is talking for itself here... Impressive.

How does it feel to be so lightheaded? Niiice?
02:16 September 22, 2010 by Marko2010S
Das ist der Unterschied zwischen uns. Du findest, dass wir uns streiten, und ich finde, dass wir endlich miteinander reden
07:17 September 22, 2010 by Truth-Teller
I just took some time to read the platform of the Sweden Democrats. Although some of their views on homosexuality are bit troubling, I do not see how questioning the current system, especially based on sound economic principals, is racist.

Sweden is a small country with a very specific niche in the world economy. If it continues to bring in low skilled laborers, who do not assimilate into the society at large, it will continue to add people to the social welfare system. This will strain the fabric of the economic system.

As the native population is not growing, there is a need for immigration. But instituting language requirements, and preserving one's culture are not racist.

Rather than act like a country full of idealogical teenagers, this situation should be looked at in its entirety with ample back up data.

Are immigrants really not assimilating?

Do they in fact commit more crimes?

Are they in fact a drain on the current welfare system?

This is the beginning to having an adult conversation, not protesting because you do not agree with the outcome of a democratic election.
08:09 September 22, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg

Carl Sandburg etc

Did you follow Keith Ellison on BBC Hardtalk on Monday?


Check this out and come back:


But remember it’s SWEDEN we’re talking about…….

And what’s this about SD and homo-sexuality? Is it a party line? Even Alf Svensson doesn’t talk like that (or does he?

Stay on the scene…..
08:57 September 22, 2010 by Uncle

I did not understand the link to the arab lobby. In regards to homosexuality, I have never heard any reference to it in the party line. There were cases however when separate members of SD expressed negative view of it. Even this in my opinion NOT OK.

What is interesting is that the "immigrant" stand on homosexuality is clear to many. From the laws in these countries, to lynches and the constant medieval fear of homosexuals in this community. When A-jad was asked about execution of gays in Iran during his lecture in Columbia Uni, he answered that there are no gays in Iran.

However nobody questions these views. These are cute traditions of the newcomers. This is a CULTURAL exchange that we shall accept with no questions asked.


Not at all, not at all… It is just when some start telling you what to say and what not to say, while having hysterical tantrums worthy of a maniacal patient, it stops being a discussion. Especially if a racist is blaming one of racism.
09:09 September 22, 2010 by cowboykodp

So you are a German Nazi. Very interesting.

"I didn't vote for SD" you say. You sounds like all the chicken shits who are on the list of SD supporters, who are all now calling radio stations and TV stations denying it. At the very least have some pride.

On a side note, Just to inform some of your disciples on this forum; Next time you bring up "The Malmo Attacks" don't forget to mention the small detail of the back drop of the demonstrations. The little fact that Gaza was being bombed to bits and the relatives of the protesters were being slaughtered.

All the world was protesting the Israel offensive, even the non-muslim countries.

Also; I protect all persecuted people. Being Muslims, Jews, Black, White, etc..

Being a racist and bigot like you and jumping on the latest bandwagon of someone to hate, thats easy and for morons like you.

I never said I personally was peaceful, you asumed that. I have been known to pound on punks and bullies like you my entire life. Its too bad we cant meet in person for a closer introduction.
10:05 September 22, 2010 by Marko2010S
@cowboykodp #77

If you allow me to criticize, I'll just point one thing.

It as a good thing when people feel comfortable enough to respectfully disagree. Also, it might be funny (Sometimes) to lash out. But I can conclusively say that you're so much better off without using extreme provocative, emotive language to demonstrate your points.

BTW, I am a Muslim, and I disgree with many people on this site.
10:10 September 22, 2010 by Uncle

No, no for sure! You are right. If Gaza is bombed, then the Jews in Gaza shall feel your iron fist and big bat… who else? This is wonderful how such a noble knight comes to defence of the poor Palestinians, through approving (and maybe participating in?) beating up 89 years old Holocaust survivor. This is a real courage!

Sure, the defender of the weak forgot the hundreds of thousands dead in Sudan at the hand of muslims. The somalian artificial starvation also never got into the schedule of the brave soldier of justice. One could not busy himself with the bombed Kurds, or with dying Palestinians in Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon. Chad never interested the protector of the miserable as neither did the faith of the Shia in Yemen.

Besides, going after the muslim brothers in order to defend the right of all of these oppressed, instead of a Jewish religious family with 8 girls, can be proved as slightly straining the health insurance in Sweden, which we would not like…

I understand how sorry you are that you cannot meet me and show how peaceful your goals are…Teach me, oh the enlightened one, what a dialogue and other opinions mean to a real defender of the weak… Hey, your brothers are already doing a good work cutting off heads of the infidels, until the infidels would understand HOW peaceful your intentions are. (

Hey, You know what I think, cowboy? If you go into REALLY bad names, then I and others will actually listen to your genius arguments. I would say, try to seriously threaten me. That would be a good addition to your overall image. Come on, do your best!
10:24 September 22, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg

What don't you understand? Wise-up: the word AQL ( intellect) is mentioned 77 times in the Qur'an.

The Arab Lobby in the United States is a reality. As real as oil. You've seen photos of George Walker Bush walking hand in hand and standing cheek to cheek with His Majesty King Abduallah of Saudi Arabia, and Brother Barack Hussein Obama bowing in deep obeisance to him, haven't you?

As in the US, so too eventually in Sweden, because of the Muslim presence - and because of international trade, there will be a Muslim Lobby which will seek the interests of the Muslim community here, since – as I have said before, Muslim money is heavily invested in Sweden and such business and not not only mosques are growing , as more and more people in Sweden ( mostly Swedes – not Arabs) are converting to Islam. So, when we're talking about Muslims, please understand that we're talking about them too.( The people of Indonesia, which has the greatest Muslim population, became Muslims, not at the sharp edge of the sword but through honest trade )


10:45 September 22, 2010 by cowboykodp

The FACT is you are no better than the Islamist extremists that you love to bundle in with all muslims. You can dress up your rhetoric any way you like, but the truth is out there for all to see.

Unfortunately, you are with the 5-10% extremists on both sides that have infected Sweden, Europe and the US with their baggage. I say take your damn HATE and go back to your own country. Do you actually think you are better than the people who "Cut Off the heads of infidels"?

Your kind of rhetoric could potentially result in a major world disaster, far outweighing any thing so far.


I am just amazed that you actually think you are having a conversation of reason. I will repeat what I said on another forum: Its like saying "your mother is a prostitute and your sister and father and your brother practice incest" But lets have a civilized discussion.

I suggest one spends their time speaking with normal human beings. Go out and talk to the average Swede and help them better understand your religion and people, so that the likes of UNCLE and his posie (??) stop infecting the world with their garbage.
11:13 September 22, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg

I've done your bidding and checked out your idol as you requested.


It stands to reason that the Zionists must have rewarded him first and foremost for hacking at their ancient rival, al-Islam and then regretted it a little too late – they say, upon realising that he is SD. To their chagrin. But no use crying over spilt milk – and how could they have not known?


Now Lena Posner regrets to say that the Jews may be next on the SD agenda.( Ha'aretz). That would be the end of SD though. The media and blogger blitz would be enough to obliterate them...and so in the meantime they'll have to confine themselves to the anti-Semitism of Islamophobia, xenophobia and Homophobia – possibly also Negrophobia?

Uncle, do you know of any more phobias that you or they may be suffering from?
11:22 September 22, 2010 by Uncle

Nice to see that you took your pills finally and tantrum us diminishing.

Actually, what I told was an actual story. Without conclusions or ideas. You got into German rhetoric of hate, names and threats. So, the "incest and prostitute" definitions are coming from one and only one side here. It is fun though when a people protector here screams "dumb, uneducated, (I cant even find enough adjectives), racist and bigot, German Nazi" and at the same time blaming others in "calling people names" fits your great opinions in regards "Let's beat Swedish Jews up, because of Israel" and your threats (which appear not the first time).

Oh, and I saw that I wrote "Jews in Gaza". What a joke… Of course I meant Jews in Sweden. Palestinians would like to have a pure country of arab-muslims and no filthy Jews contaminating the purity of their lands. A week a go a law was approved in the authority, according to which, a Palestinian will be sentenced to death IF he sells his land to a Jew. No, of course, by writing this, I am a clear nazi, whereas Palestinians only want peace and love together with cow boy here…


I agree that arab lobby is a reality. What of that? Did I not agree to their right to unite and promote their interests? I am sure that they SHOULD do that.

In regards to the conversion rates, what statistics do you have? What I am saying is that parties like the "antu-zionist" party that invites nazis also, rhetoric in mosques, treatment of gays, women, rights of children… All of this is WAY worse than what any SD member ever thought of.

However knights on a white steed like comrade cowboy here, disregard all of this. They actually believe that these are cultural peculiarities that should be accepted, whereas Jews shall be stomped upon because of some conflict that took LEAST lives among any other ongoing conflicts in the world. YOU should be worried, Cornelius. THESE are real nazis covered in "peace loving" and "justice seeking" overcoats.
11:33 September 22, 2010 by Marko2010S
@cowboykodp #81

Do you speak/read Arabic language?

If Yes, Then, please do read this short Hadith (One line): (http://images.aljayyash.net/files/file/d3wa/laysa.jpg).

@Uncle #79

Is your second paragraph taken from CNN or BBC ?

You just grouped all Muslims and Arabs problems and listed them as negatives. I can assure you that there is no Muslim on earth ever claimed that Muslims or Arabs don't have problems and they are perfect people (Or chosen people). In fact anyone reads that part would assume from your way of criticizing that your world (Western world) is super perfect and it doesn't have any problem at all both in the past and present.

As for #83

"a Palestinian will be sentenced to death IF he sells his land to a Jew."

Assume that Russia invaded 70% of Sweden. Obviously, Swedes want to restore thier lands. At the same times, there are some Swedes who sell their lands (Those who are from the 30% left) to Russians. Do you reward them and consider them heros or noble knights ?

Now, as for the punishment, this is another story. I am here talking about the principle in general.
12:12 September 22, 2010 by Uncle

There are 7 trillion critics of the western world. The most prominent amount is INSIDE the west. Of course west is not even close to perfection, however one needs to take a side. So I seem to be one of the few that are even PRONOUNCING the problems related to the muslim world - something that Europeans are disregarding completely.

You tell me - is it OK to disregard the freedom of women and suppression of gays in the muslim community, but when a local swede treats his woman as a slave and expresses his negative opinions of gays he is stomped? Is it fine by you personally? I do not think this is fair. I want ALL who behaves not accordingly to the Swedish legislation to be criticised.

You see Marko, I want equal treatment and expectations from all citizens of Sweden and not only from the "white" ones, since there are higher expectations from them. The real Nazis in the face of the left wing do not consider immigrants for people who understand values of democracy or lawful relationships between people. It is not expected from the "uneducated barbarians" and defined as a cultural perk. I consider immigrants for completely equal people, who need to answer the SAME requirements as anyone else if they would like to belong.

Now, in regards to "invasion"… I would not like to get into an unending argument, but if you just read a bit, nobody invaded… The territory was taken from Turkey (who actually invaded) and given to 2 people who lived there .One of the people disagreed to the existence of the other and attacked the other with 7 armies. Also, it can be proved that majority of lands were actually bought by people like baron Rothschild. The other part was relieved at the request of the 7 armies, with a promise to "clean the land of Jews within 2 weeks". Also, read about the history of 1 million Jews thrown out of every arab country between 1948 and 1952. Nobody invaded THEM for sure.

What is especially interesting is that the arabs in Palestine OBJECTED the arrival of Jewish immigrants and even massacred quite a few of them. However it seems that the opposition to the arrival of muslim immigrants into Sweden is RACISM. Where is the logic?

However, even if you disagree with the above, it does not matter, since there are reasons for Germans ALSO to demand purity of their lands and expansion need in the 20-30's. Does it make it OK, to be extreme nationalist?
12:44 September 22, 2010 by Marko2010S

I admit that I was not accurate in my expression regarding the palestinian issue, but simply my point was a traitor shouldn't be respected or honored. A traitor should be punished.

*** I would like to know your personal opinion about how some countries like such as: Tunisia, Jordan , Mauritania (They don't have oil) can improve ?

I know this is very general question, but I am keen on hearing your point of view.
13:25 September 22, 2010 by Uncle
Dear Marko.

Didn't we go through this? I mean - how to make the muslim world better? Education and by that - erosion of religion etc? This applies of course to the nationalists of Europe. Many of them are uneducated (as cowboy here, would probably scream again that I am the least educated in their midst and he shall burn me on a cross, in the name of Tolerance).

However, thinking about it. Education could be different. From what I know, in the muslim system there are schools that teach that Jews actually invaded some country in 1948 from somewhere else. I heard opinions here that there are 1 million dead Palestinians every year (given that there are 4M Palestinians in there, the conflict should have ended quite a long time a go at this rate). I even heard different definitions for "traitor" and "enemy of islam".

Even now, many arab countries shift their attention from the invented enemy in the face of Israel to the real Iranian threat. Many of them admit that perhaps some attention to the Jews was overrated.

I propose that the immigrants or Muslims or Africans, or any other combination of people that you can think of, that eventually caused these movements around the entire Europe shall be treated as EQUALS. You rape your wife? Oh, it is cool back in the country you came from? Be answerable! You beat your kid? You call for violence? Be answerable. You cannot find a job even with help? Move to other parts of Sweden where you are needed (like with Swedes).

Muslims are not blind and not idiots. Muslims manage to adjust themselves to any system in the world and only in Europe they see that there is no NEED to adjust. Whatever one does, people blame someone else. Whenever many people do, everyone reminds that this is just a minority…

This treatment of immigrants as mentally challenged people who cannot be responsible for their thoughts or actions and at the SAME TIME pounding on the minority of Europeans who CAN be answerable, because they are white and intelligent - drives me crazy… All I am saying - be freaking objective!
14:05 September 22, 2010 by Marko2010S

Talking about Muslim immigrants in Europe, Do you think the coming generations will be like Europeans in their lifestyle and other aspects?

To make my question clearer: Kids and grandkids of Muslim immigrants who will born, grow up and study in Sweden, Finland, Normaway, Germany, Belgium, France...etc will automatically adopt quite many features from the Europeans.

So, you can see the son of the Turkish-Kebab owner got a degree in Engineering, and then moved to the north to work. Also, you can see a son of a Palestinian immigrant can't even speak one arabic word having a swedish "blonde" girlfriend.

My point is: Immigrants at the moment are not well-integrated, and there are so many people are banging about kicking them out and criticising harshly.

With time people chanage.

I visited different countries and I saw people in France (Thier parents Originally Muslim immigrants) are completely like French except the look. They know only one or two Arabic words, they have no problems at all with gays and some of them in the army who is willing to go to fight some Islamic countries if it is needed.

*** Again, that leads to bring up the point of why Sweden takes refugees. Simply, Sweden doesn't want the current refugees nor their kids. Sweden wants the next generations because deep down they know very well that they will be the workforce who they will depend on.
15:21 September 22, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg

I'm afraid I can't give you any accurate figures about conversion rates to Islam, suffice it to say that I know at least 50 Swedes who have converted to Islam, the lastest one presently betrothed to a Palestinian lady.


If you are really interested you could enquire from them:


Everybody's worried about the “peculiarities” that you refer to. ( A homophobia that is based on religion. A “ in peace always” which criticizes Israel at every given opportunity and would like to see Islam dominating the world.)

MEMRI is a good source of information. Perhaps they should have a branch office in Malmö. Since you are burning with such zeal , you could volunteer to represent them over here...


I should like to read a few clear paragraphs from you on the subject of racial tolerance - what is supposed to be the main theme of this thread.

Don't hesitate to make any requests from me.
15:55 September 22, 2010 by Truth-Teller
This has gotten very off topic.

This is not a place to solve all the problems that plague the Arab world.

2 wrongs never make a right. People in Saudi Arabia can be punished for having a BirthDay Card because the ruling Government thinks there is too much "Western Influence". This is absurd and, in my opinion, a violation of the basic human right of free expression, but acting the same way only brings one down to their level.

Swedes seem to be in such a hurry not to appear racist that it is going to allow the very fabric of their country to change, making it less Swedish. Maybe Sweden is OK with that, maybe it is for the best, but it is definitely happening.

If a rally organized by a teenager who had not obviously read the party platform of the 'racists' she was protesting against is the way that Sweden responds then maybe it is simply not ready for that adult conversation.

The economic implications of the current immigration practices are real, and the current welfare system will fail if it continues. One way or another, this will be dealt with. I think we all hope it is not on the back of Sweden's own financial crisis in a few years.
16:36 September 22, 2010 by Uncle

You are right. There will be some assimilation. However, please take a look at what is going on in France, in Germany, in Holland and in Austria.

Whenever there are TOO MUCH immigrants of the same background, there is zero assimilation. Even through generations. An excellent example are the Amish in the US, who were immigrants once up on a time.

In the current situation, many Somalians from Hjällbo and Iraqis from Malmö will not assimilate at all since they are not influenced by the "svenner" at all. They read their own literature, they have their own kindergartens and mosques and they work (if they work) at each other's companies. One needs first to disperse the immigrants and to create an assimilation pressure, so the next generation would benefit and not just pile immigrant on an immigrant in the same ghettos…


Racial tolerance is not the issue like the thread suggests. Truth-teller is right. Many even did not read the political statements of SD. Yes, many of them are ex-nazis, but even THEIR views are not different from the views of communists, who would love to see forced privatization and "bloody revolution", neither are they different from many prominent muslims, who for some reason are not considered extreme, whenever they issue fatwas relating to a "proper" woman punishment ("beat them on the backs and not the face… warn first and only then punish, since they are also humans and should understand" etc).

They are not considered racist whenever they talk about Jews who are planning to conquer the world. They are not considered Nazis whenever they talk about filth of other religions. It happens EVERYWHERE. I am not even generalizing here.

It is not about race. It is about equality. And according to the left wing, immigrants are inferior and underdeveloped children. According to me, they know what they want, they use the opportunity as EVERYONE ELSE would do and they have their way. Now go and ask anyone, which view of him/herself does he/she prefers?
22:34 September 22, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg


You got so much things to say! Right now

we know that you are biased. I am bisased too. Biased, not bi-assed. Pre-judiced, for pro-gress & Pre-Jew-diced

Once again, I’m asking you to be serious.

Holmes is asking you to be Honest


And Forthright:

Is this not part of your pathetic,




Here in Sweden.
23:03 September 22, 2010 by OnessOfMankind
´Money is money and human are humans after all.
23:30 September 22, 2010 by Uncle

What the hell are you banging on about? So if I am the only one who is actually saying that muslims are not perfect, then it is my agenda?

Few people here said: "These are the problems of muslims, BUT...." bla bla bla, SD are not good.

The entire country is discussing the arrival of SD into power. Not WHY they came to it. Nobody wants to look not PC and actually discuss the DIRECTLY non-tolerant views in this religion. Again and again I am saying it. Islam is not tolerant. It is as symptomatic as SD. Islam and SD are equally far away from the center. Why nobody discusses this, but SD?



And Forthright:

Is this not part of your pathetic,


Anti-European and anti-Christian


Here in Sweden.


Do you

Care about extremists

on one side only?
23:48 September 22, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg

Honest, straight-forward and forthright:

We are waiting to hear from you, chief, unofficial spokesperson for SD who you so warmly recommend to those of us who do not know them that well.

Niggers are scared. All niggers (we the black people who are grateful for the hospitality that you, Moder Svea, have extended to us.)

Some have already started packing their bags. As for the rest of us – still hanging in suspense, what we want to know is the contents of the 99 theses that Jimmie Åkesson who perhaps wants to kick start or spark off a Swedish revolution - and like the Lutheran Luther of yore, no doubt Jimmie Å also wanted to nail his own 99 theses – no less nor more - on the doors of the Swedish Parliament, as further notice,


Uncle, can’t you forward us such basic information as the wording of the 99 theses?

Must we have to worry and wait in stress for a more favourable date?
01:01 September 23, 2010 by kenny8076
immigrants wouldnt be so bad if they came here and made th country better. But from a majority stand point they don't. Like in America most immigrants specialize is welfare fraud. they are experts at stretching every single dime they can get without working or paying taxes. I have 2 in my sfi class that are doing it perfectly!!

Just because people dont like having other nationalities coming and soaking up welfare systems and hospital bills, popping out kids with out having a job..... does not make them racist... to me that is patriotic. This is a country MY children have to grow up in. My kid was born in sweden, not the middle east or thailand. i should have to raise my kid, not all these immigrant children.
08:40 September 23, 2010 by Uncle

Read this:


then go and read this;


Then, IF you will say yes, SD are antimuslims, which is not good, since Islam is wonderful, peaceful and loving religion, BUT I can understand why 300,000 people voted for SD, then we will agree. When the problem with immigrants will ascend upon you? Whenever 20% or 30% vote for them? In Norway it stands at 22% by the way. When the discussion will switch from "oh, how horrible that antimuslims are in parliament.." to "why are they in parliament?"

Until then, this thread will drag forever.
10:16 September 23, 2010 by flintis
Just because the SD have stated their point on immigration doesn't make all of them racist. Look at the whole picture, the problem is & has been the Sosses "open door" policy.

Nothing wrong with immigration, just needs to be more selective, keep out the scroungers & riff-raff whatever their skin colour & ensure integration into society.

Refugee's, yes as long as they are genuine. Not like the 100's arriving from Serbia & other former war-ing nations.

Time to close the doors.
10:24 September 23, 2010 by flipcanuckbrit
Admittedly, I don't know all the statistics, I can't quote literature and probably my post will go unoticed amidst such diatribe, but I'll leave my two cents anyway.

As one born in Canada, to Filipino immigrants and having lived in Britain for 6 years (attained citizenship) and currently living in Sweden, I have witnessed quite a bit when it comes to how different socities work.

As someone said previously, different countries have different systems according to what works for them. I personally prefer the Canadian point system, it assures that those with the skills necessary are filtered through and our workforce addresses its needs. It's not to say that we don't have a need for low skilled labourers. We do. I have a relative who arrived from the Philippines on a work permit. Yes, she uses much of the money she makes to help back home. However, she didn't get to choose where she went. She didn't go to Toronto, she was sent to the cold reaches of Alberta where they need more people to go to.

In Toronto, we have ethnic communities living together, but don't have the same kind of racial tension. Many immigrants who moved to Canada with hardly a cent to their name have gone on to have children who became doctors and lawyers. There need not be a circle of poverty. We embrace the different cultures and most view themselves as being "Chinese Canadian, Indian Canadian, Italian Canadian, Greek Canadian" etc. Everyone visits the other person's "Town" to get a taste of the other culture. We embrace our parents/grandparents culture and also embrace what it means to be Canadian. I suppose one could say that means being "culture-less" which may be something that Swedes may be afraid of seeing as it does have a deep seeded traditions however with the influx of immigrants, some things are bound to change.

In Britain, in order to become British you need to pass a "Citizenship Test". This ensures that you are aware of British History, you understand various aspects of modern British Society and also that you have a good grasp of the language (and at least basic computer skills as tests are computer based). Whilst studying for the test, I must admit I was frustrated because I knew that most Brits themselves wouldn't pass the test, however in hindsight I can see how it is good to do. Having immigrants prove that they really want citizenship and willing to study in order to be granted it and at the same time learn about Swedish society in hopes to better understand it could be a good thing.

Living in Sweden and going through the whole SFI course, I have seen how easy it is for some people to get stuck in a rutt. I know of people who do abuse the system just for money. I myself get angry at the thought and admittedly, as an immigrant myself, think that whilst SDs roots scare me, I am happy that the points they bring up are at least brought to the limelight.
11:24 September 23, 2010 by Uncle
flintis - as usual, you are right 100%.

flipcanuckbrit - why would you go unnoticed? People who have serious stuff to say never are unnoticed. Good story. It was interesting to see the comparison between immigration regulations and areas in other western countries.

If someone would actually dig in what SD proposes, it actually corresponds very well with the Canadian system of integration and welcoming others. However people are stuk in throwing slogans and convincing each other of not even conversing with the anyone who is less radical towards SD.
13:48 September 23, 2010 by flintis
@Uncle: Thanks for the compliment. Must go out & buy some liverwort.
14:04 September 23, 2010 by Marko2010S
@flintis #101

I think you also need to buy some honor for yourself. Post a question and ask honorless goons about where they have sold theirs. So they guide you.
14:19 September 23, 2010 by flintis
@marko2010s: only one goon on this site.

Couldn't carry any more honour, but liverwort I have to get enough for the whole neighbourhood.

2010? if it wasn't impossible I'd beleive that was your birth year, you do have the amazing ability to spout like a 6 month old
14:28 September 23, 2010 by Marko2010S
@flintis #103

I believe that no one will sell you. Elements like you are just .....
14:35 September 23, 2010 by flintis
...........wonderful. I agree totally, modesty is my best feature.

Well got to get back to the fishing, see what takes the bait next.

Anyone hungry.....................
15:09 September 23, 2010 by Marko2010S
@flintis #105

Indeed, since you are a hypocrite-chameleon, It is so easy for you to change and have different faces. So, you are already an honorless-goon and now you acquired a new status (modest). What is next ?
15:44 September 23, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg


There are many immigrants – and children of immigrants, who love Sweden and are prepared to score goals for Sweden. As Jan Björklund says, Sweden should be able to win the Nobel Prize.

The son of a Kenyan immigrant student is presently sitting in the White House as president of the United States of America

We do not want a Sweden

“Where the executioner’s face is always well hidden

Where hunger is ugly, where souls are forgotten

Where black is the color, where none is the number “


Please get this straight : The Swedish Elections that have just been concluded, was not a national referendum on Islam or Muslims or Immigrants. If you think that that's what it was, then may I ask you, who won?

Understandably, throughout the election campaign both the Alliance and the Green-Red coalition with Mona (in hijab) were engaged in making visits to mosques and courtesy calls on mosque leaders in their agenda of hustling the Muslim and immigrant vote. There was certainly no racism or xenophobia in those friendly efforts to enlist the support of the Muslim and Immigrant vote, or in fraternizing with Muslims and immigrants, or some of the extra political flirtations with just those groups just before the elections. At least every immigrant is socially connected to at least one or two born Swedes who are most likely not going to vote against the immigrants' interest. This means that statistically speaking the immigrants' influence cannot be limited to mathematically exact numbers from the Statistics Central Bureau. The immigrants' influence and importance goes beyond his social security number.

The only party that had the courage and actually went out explicitly and exponentially for that purpose did a great job of criticizing Islam, Muslims and immigrants, was the Sweden Democrats, who naturally did not expect to win any election favours from the people that they made a target group of their professional scrutiny. They expected to win the votes of those who share their belief in Sweden Democrats' ideas about Islamification, restricting/ reducing the hitherto great influx of all kinds of refugees, immigrants, and generally making Sweden a better and more Swedish place to live in...etc etc. Immigrants might appear to be the only scapegoat, but The Sweden Democrat programme does not begin and end with with questions and answers about immigration and integration, questions and answers that cannot be neglected or ignored, but will will have to be discussed. Problems to be solved.

To kenny8076 : I'd just like to say that you should try to hold natural born Swedes and immigrants to the same legal standards and not be too one-sided by singling out only immigrants as specialists in welfare fraud.
16:31 September 23, 2010 by Uncle

Flirting with the immimgrants had a different content than flirting with unions for example...

Now I see everywhere - "Donate to asylum kids integration", "Multilingual, come to be firefighters", "Assist an asylum family in need"

Even if THIS was the effect of the evil SD, then I praise them.

FINALLY people start realizing that there is a problem and unite in order to eliminate this problem in other ways than closing the borders! I just hope that specialists will start coming to immigrant dominated schools and kindergartens and start confronting violence and inequality. Then next elections there will be no need for SD.
17:01 September 23, 2010 by flintis
@Marko2010S: you remind me of a 15watt light bulb, not very bright!!

I stand by my post of 23/9 at 10:16
22:31 September 23, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg


See a lot of signs, everywhere.

"Sign on the street says, "You don't own me"

Would you like to make obeisance you also see a proposition offering each and every immigrant the bulk sum of two million Swedish Kronor each, as a reward for going back to where they came from, voluntarily?

23:06 September 23, 2010 by Hagrid
When an organism senses it is under attack from the outside, it fights the invasion using its defense mechanisms. Some of these defense mechanisms create unpleasant symptoms, such as fever. But the fever is necessary to fight the invading virus. When the virus is gone, so is the fever.

The same is happening in Sweden. Yet unfortunately, Swedes only try to eliminate the unpleasant symptom, instead of the root cause of the disease.
10:40 September 25, 2010 by BunnyOlesen
@MARKO - OF COURSE YOU ARE muslim - it is very obvious from your hateful hostile aggressive tone.

@CORNELIUS - Obama's father was NOT a kenyan immigrant, he was kenyan with no status as an american immigrant (who also abandoned his son when he was 2 years old and has 11 other kids by 4 other women, the most notable accomplishment of these children was the kenyan born son who was arrested in england with a false passport and the sexual assault of a 13 yr old white girl) And I'm sick of hearing about his father being Kenyan, he had absolutely NO influence on obama's life or growth & only saw Obama once after he abandoned him. His wonderful intelligent white mother and grandparents, they are the ones who raised him.

TO ALL THOSE WHO QUESTIONED WHETHER immigrants actually aren't integrating or cause crime problems- the answer is THEY AREN'T integrating and in a 4 year period from 1998-2002 immigrants or children of immigrants were the perpetrators of 48% of ALL CRIME IN SWEDEN - approximately 75% of ALL CONVICTED rapists in sweden are immigrants or children of immigrants with the bulk majority from MUSLIM COUNTRIES - LEFTY LOONIES QUIT YOUR LYING !! ISLAM IS NOT A RACE & I DONT WANT people from the most violent countries on earth to be my next door neighbors any more !!!
00:19 September 26, 2010 by Cornelius Hamelberg
Wonderful intelligent Bunny,

I hadn’t noticed this.

Are you sure of your crime figures and statistics? They sound very exaggerated.

You don’t like this and you don’t like that; never satisfied. Why don’t you move to some place else?

Talking about disease, here’s some good news:


This song strikes a chord which resonates in the heart of many Swedes:

11:54 September 29, 2010 by stenhuggaren
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