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More attacks on Swedish troops in Afghanistan

TT/The Local · 7 Oct 2010, 10:05

Published: 07 Oct 2010 08:32 GMT+02:00
Updated: 07 Oct 2010 10:05 GMT+02:00

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As the Swedish troops have increasingly come under fire in the face of Afghan resistance, the issue of their presence in the country has become a tense political issue in Sweden.

"There have been a very large number of firefights, around 30," said Colonel Gustaf Fahl of the Swedish Armed Forces to the Svenska Dagbladet (SvD) daily.

The Swedish military has made an effort to restrict the flow of information about the battles to the public.

"Every bullet fired against us is political dynamite," sources at Swedish headquarters told the newspaper.

On around ten occasions the situation has become so precarious, that the Swedes have called in air support from the Nato-led Isaf force. On several occasions the fighters have opened fire in order to come to the Swedish soldiers' aid.

Since mid-summer alone the Swedish troops have become embroiled in fighting on more than 20 occasions, which is a dramatic increase from previous months. Between July 18th and 26th, battles occurred day and night for eight days.

"It was hell on earth," said an officer to SvD.

The primary reason that Swedish troops more often find themselves in the line of fire is a new set of tactics based on rooting out enemy units in Taliban strongholds, often with the help of the Afghan army and police.

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In less than a month the Alliance government is set to present a motion, with which the parliament is set to be asked to extend the Afghanistan mandate and send a further two ambulance helicopters to support Swedish troops stationed in the country.

The Red-Green opposition made an election campaign promise that a withdrawal of the troops should begin in 2011 if they won the election. The Sweden Democrats have said that they could consider supporting the Red-Green motion.

TT/The Local (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

09:12 October 7, 2010 by Nemesis
What are they complaining about. 30 firefights is nothing compared to what troops from other countries have had thrown at them.

Swedish troops have had it extremely easy, compared to troops from other countries.

It is long overdue Swedish troops starting to pull there weight in Afghanistan and do some of the fighting, instead of leaving it to others.
09:16 October 7, 2010 by WelshSwede
So they called in air support to bring the fika!
09:21 October 7, 2010 by big5
The headline doesn't really tell the whole story. The reason for the uptick in attacks is that the Swedes have adopted a much more aggressive patrolling policy and are spending more time in what previously were Taliban sanctuaries. It's not like they're just sitting on their rear ends like victims "getting attacked". They are looking for targets, finding them, and calling in jets and attack helicopters to destroy the targets. They are also stepping up civil efforts in previous no-go areas.
09:31 October 7, 2010 by jbat
Sweden and all other countries should pull out of this country and let US alone do their own business there...

if you try to conquer another people country, the local people will always try to resists, no matter what religion or race they belief. You don´t need an evil like Osama to persuade people to fight..

Look at Vietnam, if US still there until today, the Vietnamese also will still fighting them until today. But without US there, Vietnam now has become one of the "advance" country in South East Asia (at least if compare among those South East Asian country)...

So this war is for what? for testing new war machine, new war strategy and selling more weapons and probably preparing for great world war 3 to come?

and much much worst is it to create more and more muslims terrorist so all muslims can be blame for it?
09:36 October 7, 2010 by big5
This quote is also very misleading: "the Swedish troops have increasingly come under fire in the face of Afghan resistance,"

In a large number of the incidents reported, it's been a question of Afghan troops with a small number of Swedish mentors being attacked by Taliban. The Taliban, in their turn, can only exist because they are supported by the Pakistani ISI. Calling the Taliban the "Afghan resistance" is one-sided and only plays into the worldview of extremists like Sweden's Vänsterpartiet.
09:38 October 7, 2010 by Kevtravels
@Big 5, exactly. Swedes are in a way taking the fight to the enemy which is quite progress considering how I read years back they only had like 30 actual combat soldiers and that's not even enough to guard the base much less patrol and test the insurgent's strength.

I'm quite proud of what Swedish soldiers are doing. Helping their allies. But at the same time, the North has become a full on battlefield since the Germans haven't exactly pacified it due to their political issues regarding soldiers activity. Sweden needs to send more troops asap to upgrade their contingent so they can handle the situation as it is sure to get worse. If not, they should withdraw. No use sending nowhere near enough troops for a mission you're not exactly duty bound to do.
09:40 October 7, 2010 by byke
The story leads to much as if it was attack specifically aimed at swedes and sweden.

Fact is, Sweden is playing part of a back up in a war.

When you go to war there will usually be attacks from both sides.
09:46 October 7, 2010 by jbat
I am confuse, why so many "weird news" recently have been posted here in this The Local by The Local?

Is it some sort of campaign by "The Local" ? :-)
09:51 October 7, 2010 by hpunlimited
Just get out and start protecting the Swedish border instead.

Afghanis do not want us there, they want to come here instead.
09:58 October 7, 2010 by Viva Melita
Troops out now!, why on earth are Swedish troops there anyway?

All part of the plan. An illegal war which angers Muslims. Pictures of tortured prisoners released to anger them more, stories about killing civilians to anger them even more, American GI's prosecuted for war crimes against Afghanies.

Anger against the West, flood the West with Muslims harbouring great resentment.

Got the picture yet?
10:08 October 7, 2010 by Kevtravels
They're there as allies to NATO and NATO is there due to a clause in their treaty that deems an attack on any nation as an attack on all. Look at 9/11.

The US and several nations attacked Afghanistan and fought the Taliban and they fled from power. Now however soon after the US dropped the ball and went in to Iraq and the Europeans were to run Afghanistan and with few troops they couldn't do much. Low and behold the Taliban creeps back in power from their safe land in Pakistan. 2006 Canada and the UK and the Netherlands and Estonia and Romania and Denmark and Australia all send troops to the South and than huge fights with the insurgents almost every hour. And once Obama was elected he decided to send more troops and now we're at the point where we are now.

Most nations believe it's a humanitarian mission and they're wrong. It's a full out war. Sure they don't wanna be seen as fighting but they are. But it's hard to build a school or innoculate a village from disease when there are thousands ready to kill you.

good luck to the swedes.
10:12 October 7, 2010 by richmars
Has the Swedish military lost any men?
10:17 October 7, 2010 by big5
I'd just like to add to Kevtravels's fact-filled post that the coalition military presence in Afghanistan is based on the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1386.

So it's not an "illegal war". As some would have it. It's authorized by the highest international legal authority.

How things play out in Afghanistan will come down to how things work out in Pakistan.

Pakistan is:

• Sheltering Taliban fighters and leaders

• Providing arms and money to insurgents

• Putting pressure on Afghani Taliban not to broker deals with the Afghan govt.

• Putting pressure of Afghani Taliban to attack civilians, officials, teachers, engineers etc. even when many of the Afghani Taliban only wish to attack foreign troops.

That is the real "illegal war" going on in Afghanistan.
10:20 October 7, 2010 by rafa1981
But are these troops in Swedish sovereign soil?

Another new to popularize the parlament decision of the Swedish troop continuity in Afghanistan.
10:27 October 7, 2010 by sendia
I agree with Kevtravels just send in enough troops with proper equipment to do the job well or get the hell out of there, there is no point in dragging your feet around.
10:29 October 7, 2010 by Andersson
We must learn from history and history has witnessed that "Afghanistan has never lost any war".
10:34 October 7, 2010 by big5
@Andersson 'We must learn from history and history has witnessed that "Afghanistan has never lost any war".'

Good thing, then, that ISAF and the Swedes are fighting on the side of Afghanistan, with the Afghan Army and Police, against the Taliban, Arab and other foreign fighters, and their supporters the Pakistani intelligence agency.

Also, historically Afghanistan has lost wars. I looked it up once, but don't have the dates in my head.
10:52 October 7, 2010 by Marko2010S
Inconceivable !!!

Swedes are fighiting like real men...Swedes used to be wusses...

Huh? They only fight because the hate of Islam.

I wonder how our brethren (Finns) feel now, we left them alone when they needed us. Yeah, the situation now is different, Swedes are worshiping and obeying the Americans.
10:52 October 7, 2010 by Andersson
@big5.... Though occupying forces(ISAF and Swedes) have on their PAYLIST so called Afghan army and police but as a nation afghans are undefeatable.. they consider (they should) all outsiders as the occupiers... And beside what you have mentioned they(Talib) should have also have the support of Russia + Iran + China as well.. you know what USA did against russian, can be paid back in the same coin. Today will complete the 9 years of occupation, where is the PEACE?
10:57 October 7, 2010 by marianne667
I do not understand why the Swedes are in Afganistan in the first place? It is an American unwinable war. Time to go home!
10:58 October 7, 2010 by jbat
As someone here said, "That is the real "illegal(LEGAL) war" going on in Afghanistan"..

yes of course it is legal by UN resolution that is controlled by USA.. USA.. USA!

"Land of Freeeeedooommmmm"
11:08 October 7, 2010 by rba
Reminds me of that Monty Python sketch...

- I'd like to leave the army please, sir.

- What?

- There are people with guns out there, sir.

- Watkins, you've only been in the army a day.

- I know sir but people get killed, properly dead sir, no barely cross fingers sir. A bloke was telling me, if you're in the army and there's a war you have to go and fight!
11:10 October 7, 2010 by big5

If you follow the recent developments you will see that the war is not at all unwinnable. Many high-level Taliban are interested in negotiating peace with Kabul and putting an end to the 9 year war. The main obstacle at this point is the interference coming from Pakistan, as mentioned in post #13, above. See the current Wall Street Journal series of reports for the latest info. An article about this has even been released by Swedish TT and is in some Swedish papers (underline the headline 25 fighters heading for Europe).
12:25 October 7, 2010 by asian369
An Indian can be recognized from his/her spicy body odor and harsh remarks against Pakistan like comment #23 from big5...
13:07 October 7, 2010 by Truth Lover
Taliban still on ground after 9-yr Afghan war. Peace is still a dream yet to be realized in the country. Thousands of innocents people have been killed in Afghanistan. And when those people resists they are called Terrorists :).
13:16 October 7, 2010 by big5
@Truth Lover. Since you love truth, here are the facts: The majority of the civilians who are being killed in Afghanistan are killed by the Taliban. And recently Pakistan has been putting pressure on the Taliban to kill even more civilians, which is even causing some Taliban commanders to complain.
13:44 October 7, 2010 by Marko2010S
@big5 #26

"Since you love truth, here are the facts:"

Wow, obviously you have a big mouth to talk. So, since you have cornered the market with "Facts", Could you show us the exact references and sources with statistics that prove your words. Otherwise, I (And everyone else) will call you a super mindless-lair.
13:50 October 7, 2010 by know
Troops out now , sweden don´t have enemy
14:01 October 7, 2010 by rafa1981
One can't trust any info about this war more than the evident (9 years already there), one have the info they want you to have, they can´t kill a bee army with RPG´s, I think that there is not a lack of equipment problem sendia, Afghanistan is the best lanscape to do guerrilla wars, the Afghans know the place perfectly and the older ones have previous military experience fighting against the russians (even the spetznatz), but the most important, they value more the act of kicking out the invader than their own life, try to arm there a puppet government and sooner or later they will use the weapons that you gave them to kill you.
14:41 October 7, 2010 by big5

You asked me to provide specific sources with statistics backing up my statement that the majority of civilians being killed in Afghanistan are killed by the insurgents, not the coalition.

Please see the relevant reports from Human Rights Watch (HRW), UN Assistance Mission Afghanistan (UNAMA), Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC), and Afghanistan Rights Monitor (ARM). For all of the years when comparisons are available (and consistently since at least 2006) the insurgents have killed more civilians than the coalition.

The most recent figures from the first half of 2010 ("AFGHANISTAN MID YEAR REPORT 2010 PROTECTION OF CIVILIANS IN ARMED CONFLICT") finds that 72% of civilian deaths were caused by the insurgents (anti-govt forces = "Taliban) as opposed to 18% caused by coalition forces. This is remarkable considering the intensified fighting as a result of Obama's "surge".
15:10 October 7, 2010 by Marko2010S
@big5 #30

First of all, Cut the crap and stop bullshiting around.

Second of all, when someone requests you to provide evidences that prove your point, you must be accurate. Don't play stupid and tell people go and read zillions of reports and books.

If you were honest, you would have given a precise quote about statistics with numbers that support your nonsense. But apparently you are NOT.

Third of all, Let's examine just on of your evidences that you are banging about:

"Data from the Special Investigation Team(SIT) indicated that 497 Afghans were killed by NATO and Afghan forces and 959 by anti-government elements during the first three quarters of the Afghan calendar year 1388 (2009)."

ref: http://www.aihrc.org.af/2010_eng/Eng_pages/Reports/Annual/Annual2009.pdf

Huh? It seems to me that both of anti-government (Taliban + other rebels) AND Coalition Forces (Including Swedes) are enjoying killing the poor afghanis.

BTW, Who is made up all these nonsense-reports?

Aren't they the same people who are against anti-government elements?

Ask 5 years old boy "Is there anyone writes and publish things that condemns them?"

The Answer: He will spit on your face twice: for wasting his time, and for asking such a foolish question.
15:23 October 7, 2010 by big5

I provided you with the specific references on which I based my statement. But yes, you will have to do some work if you want to check up on those references. Just as you asked me to do some work by providing them. It shouldn't be too hard for you to google it.

By the way, the example you did dig up just confirms my point.
16:19 October 7, 2010 by Kevtravels
People can argue day in/day out about legality of the war. War is War.

NATO has a UN resolution to act in Afghanistan and the support of the ruling govt which is most likely corrupt but it's still the govt and the UN stands by them. Human rights violations have been reported, but are you honestly forgetting what the Taliban put the whole country through 15 years ago?

I remember when I was 15 reading about the Taliban and being completely shocked by these people and yet somehow the UN didn't do anything about them. It took until 9/11 when the world woke up and did something.

Sweden is an ally to the US and other NATO nations. It does not have to be there, but it is so I respect and admire them for it. Sweden itself is not so much a military country, more of a "UN peacekeeping" country. Afghanistan is not in the condition for UN peacekeeping. Heck even the Canadians and Danes are in full combat fighting for their lives. Everyone wants to do construction for the Afghans and give them a chance at an education and normal life but it's impossible when there is no let up in the fighting.

Also those jokes about the Swedish army. Sure they made sense like a few years ago but not now. Same about the Germans and Norwegians. The North is safer than the South but that's just a comparison to say Detroit is more dangerous than Miami, but both are still quite dangerous in some areas. Swedes are fighting for their lives, it's up to the politicians to allow them to do their jobs.
16:50 October 7, 2010 by GefleFrequentFlyer
So, they discharged their weapons in anger? That's news to me!
17:12 October 7, 2010 by Truth Lover
@Big5: I think Marko has answered you. But let me tell you the truth. Don't relay on the Basie Media. For your kind information I belong to the boarder area of Pakistan which is quite near to Afghanistan. So I know the ground reality. I am not Taliban Supporter. But the reality is that TTP (Tehrek e Taliban Pakistan) are USA, RAW, Moosad's Agents. They kill innocent Pakistanis. Why Pakistan will order them to kill their own People? Don't you know they attack on Pakistan Army too? Even they are not Muslims because Islam tell us not to kill innocent people. How a Muslim can enter to a Mosque with Suicide Jacket and kill other Muslims? So they are USA, RAW, And Moosad's assets. They are brain washed people. On the other hand Afghani Taliban do not kill innocent people. They are fighting for a cause i-e to free their Own land from Foreign. Tell me what is NATO doing in Afghanistan? Do you think they should sit in home and watch and bear whatever USA, and NATO is doing with them? How they can spear people who kill their brothers, children and parents? I repeat Every Action has equal and opposite reaction :).

Tell me if some one come to Sweden and they try to occupy your land what will be your reaction?
17:21 October 7, 2010 by Swedesmith
I doubt that Sweden like an occupying army of Afghanis or Pakistanis invading their country. Unless, of course they were an underground terrorist cell.
17:35 October 7, 2010 by Truth Lover
@Swedesmith: Sweden is the Best Country of the world. They don't like to occupy any land as for as I know :).
18:34 October 7, 2010 by babychuma
I would like everyone who is against Swedish involvement in Af to read some non political non fiction material about the Taliban, they are bloody awful. Fighting these animals is a human duty not a NATO requirement and is a good deed. GO SWEDEN!!
18:46 October 7, 2010 by big5
@Truth Lover

"How a Muslim can enter to a Mosque with Suicide Jacket and kill other Muslims?"

Simple, according to standard Jihadist ideology they believe that other Muslims who don't live up to their standard of religious purity are actually infidels and deserve to be killed because they are serving tawaghit. This is what the militant salafi-takfiri jihadists are doing all over the world: killing other muslims.

There is no logic to your idea that somehow the USA and Mossad must have brainwashed the 30,000 TTP operatives. If the USA could do that, they could rule the entire world tomorrow.
18:47 October 7, 2010 by rafa1981
"Please see the relevant reports from Human Rights Watch (HRW), UN Assistance Mission Afghanistan (UNAMA), Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC), and Afghanistan Rights Monitor (ARM). For all of the years when comparisons are available (and consistently since at least 2006) the insurgents have killed more civilians than the coalition."

An what were you expecting this institutions to say? they are all funded with western money, the task of this institutions is to take out the taliban humanity to let the western soldiers - inhabitants to have no remorse when killing talibans in their sovereign soil.
18:58 October 7, 2010 by big5

What reliable sources do you have to back up your claims?
19:06 October 7, 2010 by memyselfandi
With the small amount of troops that Sweden provides, coupled with the lack of fighting skills and now this whining, just go home like a bunch of pussies.

Any country could march right into Sweden and take it over without much resistance. How does this make you Swedes feel about yourselves?
19:18 October 7, 2010 by big5

The Swedes have excellent fighting skills and are highly regarded by NATO. As for the "small amount of troops" please remember that Sweden is a tiny country compared to the USA. In terms of proportions of the population, it's like if Sweden fieled over 15,000 men, like a large division. Finally, the Swedish soldiers aren't whining. The only people whining are the leftist pussies and they just lost their second election in a row.
19:18 October 7, 2010 by asian369
@big5... #commment 38.......... I never heard about this terminology "salafi-takfiri" which you are very much upto date, though I am from Pakistan. And I am sure 98% of the population are not aware of these ideologies which you are shedding light this morning. May I know, what are you upto? Don't you know , we Pakistani are the worst victim of this menace of terrorism and and your comments about my country is far from reality. This world would have been much peaceful if gets free from mindset like yours... please stop accusing us as we are already victimized... and hopefully you have earned alot of buggs today for spreading this hateful and dirty propoganda against us.
19:30 October 7, 2010 by big5

What I am up to? I am discussing this issue with the help of facts and reasoning.

What "hateful and dirty propaganda" do you think I'm spreading? Please be specific so I can provide information to support my assertions. You should also try to provide information instead of just throwing emotional accusations around.

If 98% have never heard of the concepts of Salafi-takfiri then 2% have. Like most other knowledge.
19:46 October 7, 2010 by jbat

Don't talk about Jihad if you don't know the meaning of jihad stupid moronn!
20:10 October 7, 2010 by jbat
Yes I agree with Rafa.. those western armies are killing the civilians more than the real opponent! Look out what kind of bombs they use to fight these Talibans or other rebellion there... and when this things happen, more and more local people will join the rebellion army (what do you think they will do when their family house, siblings or relatives being bombed,attacked or killed by outsiders?)

Yes its hard to differentiate between real rebellion army or non rebellion army there.. They all look the same, and with weapon, they will become an army, without weapon, they can become like local innocent people... I watch the movie where western army in afghan choose not to shoot the young boy without weapon, but when these boy have an opportunity to shoot these armies, yes he did and this could really happen there, not just n the movie!

So is there any solution for this stupid war? Wipe out all afghans people from this world? nuke them all?
20:14 October 7, 2010 by asian369
@big5... What I want to say that the picture about Pakistan you want to paint is WRONG... it is totally absurd.. and the reality is that Pakistan has lost too much in this war against terror. The soldiers are being slaughtered in tribal areas, the soldiers head are being chopped off and hung in the open and their corpses are hung with the trees.. but you are saying " Pakistan intelligence is doing this"... are you okay man? That is why I referred all your bullSH##T as absurd and dirty propoganda.
21:58 October 7, 2010 by rafa1981

Do you need sources to know that Human Rights Watch (HRW), UN Assistance Mission Afghanistan (UNAMA), Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC), and Afghanistan Rights Monitor (ARM) are western institutions? check google.
22:06 October 7, 2010 by big5
@ rafa1981

No, I would like a reliable source for your assertion is post #39 that "the task of this institutions is to take out the taliban humanity to let the western soldiers - inhabitants to have no remorse when killing talibans in their sovereign soil."

I've googled those organizations and they seem to have quite different aims. Among other things they are critical of the use of airstrikes because of the impact on civilians. One of them managed to work together with the govt in Kabul to pressure the US into much stricter rules of engagement for airstrikes which are one reason civilian casualties caused by Coalition Forces have dropped dramatically (while atrocities committed by the Taliban have remained very high).
22:19 October 7, 2010 by big5
That is why the strategy of the coalition is to help train and support the ANA so that they can take over the security duties in the country.
22:25 October 7, 2010 by big5
There is mounting evidence that, yes, the ISI is aiding and abetting the Taliban as part of a long term strategy to maintain influence in Afghanistan, out of fear that otherwise Afghanistan might fall under the influence of India. See, for example, the recent articles in the Wall Street Journal.

As for "absurd and dirty propaganda" I've been patiently listening to people in this thread say things like "Swedes enjoy killing poor afghanis" and "the TTP are agents of USA and Moosad" but who can't provide any evidence beyond a penchant for west-hating conspiracy theories.
22:28 October 7, 2010 by jbat

are currently involve in the arms industry like selling weapons or any military technology? Only people like this are very interested in this kind of never ending war...

p/s : if yes, hope you are not selling it to both sides, because that will make you become 2 face evil... thats horrible and i am really scared of you man!!!!

Yes, Support the ANA.. then after few months, ANA don´t want to listen to US the coalition leader anymore (like Taliban) and then come back with another war...
22:31 October 7, 2010 by big5
You know I'd like to believe jihad was some holy and beautiful thing, but all we see in the news is suicide bombers killing children and idiots in black hoods sawing people's heads off, again and again and again in practically every corner of the world -- all in the name of jihad.

So you're going to need to explain it a little better than just calling me a "moronn" if you want anyone to think you're an example worth emulating.
22:36 October 7, 2010 by jbat
"One of them managed to work together with the govt in Kabul to pressure the US into much stricter rules of engagement for airstrikes which are one reason civilian casualties caused by Coalition Forces have dropped dramatically "

Only dropped dramatically ??? so thats already be sooo good ehh?

if before this you always "accidentally" killed 1000 innocent people, and now you only "accidentally" kill 10-30 innocent people.. (it dropped so much can you see?)... then it is OK huh?
22:38 October 7, 2010 by jbat

If I take what member of KKK clan as source to learn about Christian, will you agree about that?

By this question, then you are the great moroon...
22:40 October 7, 2010 by big5
Of course it isn't good that anyone dies. But you are forgetting half the equation. The Taliban are brutal murderers who kill and mutilate innocent civilians and enslave women. The coalition and the ANA are trying to stop them. If the Taliban take over again many many more people will be hurt, killed and enslaved. They must be fought, and unfortunately this leads to some civilian casualties. Especially because the Taliban are cowards and use innocents as human shields and dress like civilians and hide their weapons.
22:42 October 7, 2010 by big5

If the KKK were killing people by the thousands all over the world you might have a point. But they aren't. So you don't.
22:43 October 7, 2010 by asian369
@big5... Would you please enlighten us with the atrocities inflicted upon civilian Kashmiri people by Indian army?

Would you dare to talk about minority (Muslims, christian and sikhs) being killed in India?

Can you name any neigbouring country whose soverignity has not been threatened by India?

Would be please like to tell the world about the life condition of lower caste (Untouchables, I mean "Dalit") where a woman is giving birth to the child in the middle of city, and she is dragging her kid with embilical cord attached away from hungry dogs and no one to touch her because she is "Dalit"...
22:45 October 7, 2010 by big5

What relevance does India have with any of this?
22:48 October 7, 2010 by jbat
But that KKK is still a bad example of Christians people true moroon... yeah moron like war... and he is happy with it!
22:49 October 7, 2010 by big5
jbat, you are making no sense whatsoever. Good night.
22:50 October 7, 2010 by asian369
@big5... after smelling your 5 big holes... I found you as Indian... you are just accusing Pakistan . See your comments .... see the topic...and how you drifted away the main discussion and started accusing Pakistan.. a typical Indian mentality...
22:53 October 7, 2010 by jbat
yes.. talking woth moron people like big5 with only war in his head make no sense.. he talk junk like shiitt and only know to support US war (yes now they hide behind the name Coalition Army) againts weak afghans and now they want to attack Pakistan too...

This moron never want to said something about the country that create this stupid war (mean that the real shitt of this stupid war)..oh yes.. he is from that country maybe...
22:55 October 7, 2010 by big5

You wrote:

"after smelling your 5 big holes... I found you as Indian... you are just accusing Pakistan . See your comments .... see the topic...and how you drifted away the main discussion and started accusing Pakistan.. a typical Indian mentality... "

After reading your words above I find you a racist bigot.

Also, you are wrong. I'm not Indian, though now I almost wish I was.

I mentioned Pakistan because I sympathize with ISAF and in the current news there is a lot of discussion of the fact that the Pakistani ISI is supporting the Taliban, as mentioned near the beginning of this thread. I have provided references to some key articles on the subject. Why don't you read them and then send an email to their authors, because it is their findings I am repeating.
23:03 October 7, 2010 by jbat
"because it is their findings I am repeating. "...

Yes.. Agreee!.. moron only know how to repeat what other people say..

Moron don´t have his own brain to decide....
23:05 October 7, 2010 by asian369
@big5... whosoever you are but you behaved wholed day like our adversery... you should know that ISI has been under constant attack by these Talibans and many ISI locations and important personalities have been targeted by these fanatics.. and your comments were totally allegations and google influenced., which(google) is facing big credibility issue due to MANIPULATED system. Please go to sleep and come prepare tomorrow...
23:06 October 7, 2010 by jbat

You are wrong to smell this big5 holes since I can imagine it.. It is surely smell sooo bad.... :p
23:13 October 7, 2010 by big5
The ISI is not a monolith, nor is the Pakistani military or government. They contain taliban sympahizers and others who are against the taliban. So different factions of the ISI can stage an attack against each other. Or elements of the taliban can work on their own. The ISI are helping them, not steering their every move. You come from a country in the process of total collapse, which I find very tragic.

My comments come from the Wall Street Journal, which I read online but which is a major broadsheet newspaper, not "google". They are reporting on information coming from key sources in the field, including interviews with Afghani Taliban commanders describing their ISI connections. Again, this is not about "relying on google" whatever that means. (google just gets you to information sources, which must be evaluated on their own merits)
23:22 October 7, 2010 by asian369
@big5... sir please give your recommendations after indepth analysis of ISI by reading Wall Street Journal?? USA, NATO, ISAF need your solution, for what they could not do it in 9 years...
23:33 October 7, 2010 by big5
That's a silly comment asian, becuase it's precisely USA, NATO and ISAF who are quoted in the articles. They are the ones concerned about Pakistan's support for the Taliban.
23:37 October 7, 2010 by jbat
"The Taliban are brutal murderers who kill and mutilate innocent civilians and enslave women. The coalition and the ANA are trying to stop them. If the Taliban take over again many many more people will be hurt, killed and enslaved."

1) Who create this you so called "brutal Taliban" ?

... big5 surely don´t want to answer this...

2) So this war about helping Afghans free from Taliban?

- the first real official reason why US attack Taliban is bacause Taliban refuse to handover Osama after sept 11... IT IS NOTHING about helping Afghans free from Taliban.. in fact at that time, US maybe still supplying weapons to Taliban... bug5 don´t know this?

3) Where is an evidence saying that this Taliban is killing civilians and enslave women?

... big5 surely cannot answer this too, but he use twisted words saying that US said this, FBI said that, CIA said that too .. and maybe he will use the issue that many afghans women choose voluntarily to wear burqa.. and this is enslave.. killing people for the crime they committed, it is killing civilians (yes civillians)... the tribal war among themselve fight each other.. yes another killing (you don't need Taliban to wait for this tribal war.. even ANA group kill their tribal opponents).. USA use electric chair to kill murderer... thats honor killing... use lethal injection.. another honor killing, put the prisoner in prison where they get sodomize, rape, hits and become like an animal in the prison, thats an honor punishment!

By the way, I am not supporting Taliban, just that this war is crazy war and never ending war and let only US do their business there like they did in Vietnam War!
23:47 October 7, 2010 by asian369
@big5.. What you think why USA , NATO and ISAF still keep on providing latest arms and ammos to Pakistan army when they are concerned about Pakistan's support for the Taliban?

ISI is an organization which works under some supervision and according to your analysis ,it provides ammo and arms to Taliban.. but why ISI can't realize that if they provide resources, they are being used to kill innocent Pakistani civilians and ISI itself?

And if you find difficulty in finding these answer , please read episode of "weapon of mass destruction" written by your favourite wall street journals...
00:58 October 8, 2010 by ChrisPDX
Am I missing something here? I thought Sweden was still a neutral country? Why in the world would Sweden still be in Afghanistan?

Everyone now knows that Iraq and Afghanistan had nothing to due with 911. So why is Sweden still there?

Maybe Sweden is being blackmailed by the only Mid-East terrorist state of Israel?

Then, Sweden also has that slime ball Vilks......hehehe.....don't get me started....hehehe. It appears to me that the Zio's have a good grip on Sweden.
04:52 October 8, 2010 by majidaleem
Afgan war n iraq war were both a hoax into which EU and NATTO was pulled in by USA only to feed its hunger for oil in middle east and central asia. I am a Pakistani, and belong to a family having armed forces background in Pakistan for more than 4 decades. As far as i know, same number of Pakistani army personnel is fighting against Taliban as the TOTAL army deployed in the afganistan. the reports some of u people are referring to are from the same media which accused iraq for WMD but what they found there! NOTHING. Afgan war was in the name of finding osama, who is never mentioned in the news no a days. All US and NATTO forces have not been able to contain taliban in WHOLE afganistan which have been allegedly produced in a PART of pakistan then that is a pathetic performance for both of them.

As far as allegations on pakistan are concerned, its protecting eastern border from INDIA, fighting with recent flooding in the country, fighting taliban on westren borders and also fighting unrest in Baluchistan caused by Iran and other resource hungry nations. In these circumstances,If Pak army does not invade more areas like north wazirastan (In its own territory) and u want to call it support for Taliban then its ur dream world. If NATTO attacks pak army n kills its ALLIED ARMY of PAKISTAN and in response if pak army, forces the govt to shutdown the supply line for NATTO n US (from where NATTO n US are getting 80% of their supplies for last 10 years) n you call it support for Taliban then keep on living in ur dream world.
13:48 October 8, 2010 by Tdye
@jbat...this isnt America's "own business" this is a war on terror not a war to over take that country.....Vietnam is not an "advanced" counrty perhaps you should read up more on history before you pass judgment on America America went to help support South Vietnam's struggle against the communist insurgency of North Vietnam..NATO is NOT controlled by the U.S,NATO makes all decisions on a consensus basis. That means everything that is done must be done by unanimous consent by ALL NATO nations fool and it is the land of the FREE..not freedom dont quote my country if you cant do it correctly

@Kevtravels...We haven't "dropped the ball" there are more americans in Afghainistan than there are troops from ANY country..remember that..maybe Sweden should get back to it's roots and fight like they did in the 1500's

@Andersson they have lost wars to date they are not unstoppable 1254 ,1576(?),and from the 16th -the 18th centuries they were under non islam rule

@Marko2010S..no the Swedes are doing their part..like they should..i agree..how dare BIG5 tell you to read a book and other articles of text that contains proof..because we all know that the truth in in one book ...right?

@marianne667..i guess you dont under stand Nato law either..and this isnt an American war.. this is a war on terror..Who do you think Sweden will call when they try to kill your people?..yeah America..and guess what? we will be there for you as well

@truth lover.. My country along with the whole of nato is NOT trying to "occupy your land" we are exterminating filth and varmint from that country

I really wish most of you would actually know history and NATO relations before you start spewing Bullcrap all over these pages
18:44 October 8, 2010 by ngecenk
@Tdye in my dictionary terror is the spread of fear to innocent people. now do you think you have more fear than kids in iraq who see missile flying over their country during the war? if you think the war is to exterminate filth and varmint, do you think iraq is a better country than before the invasion?

the invasion itself is a total bull crap. whats the reason to do it? 9/11? its saudis citizen funded by egypt business man. WMD? 4 years they havent found one.
19:15 October 8, 2010 by big5

Who's talking about Iraq or WMD? The Swedish contingent is in Afghanistan.
19:53 October 8, 2010 by ngecenk

i know. im just pointing out that the whole war on terrorism is a nonsense. its based on a wrong foundation, motivated by wrong reason, and will end up with a wrong condition.
20:01 October 8, 2010 by Tdye
@ngecenk teah i know what terror is..i do have a college education..and i didnt nane the war...I am not scared of anything..but let me ask you..how do you think My people (Americans) felt as they watched those planes fly in to those buildings..how do you think MY people feel when family's..whole complete family's lost their lives that day? how do you think the children feel knowing that mommy and / or daddy will never come home? all because some radical Muslims decided that America was to far advanced in technology so they decided to kill us.. NOT to mention it was the WORLD trade center..as in YOUR country was represented also.. it was the act of those people on MY country that did NOTHING to that country that caused all of this killing and torment..

no i dont completely agree with the current state of warfare that is going on.. how ever sad it is for those other children MY country was ATTACKED IN A TIME OF PEACE for NO other reason than to try to "cut the head off the snake"

you dont sit there and complain to me about kids in IRAQ (which no one but you are even talking about them) being scared cause frankly i dont care MY kids were scared that the bad men would come and kill them MY kids you understand that?

America isnt always right but they brought this on them selves do your history America has never "started" a war (other than our own civil war).. we just finished them win or loose...

Iraq was a mistake-ish..had Saddam followed the UN sanctions against them and let the Weapons inspectors in..in refusing the UN and NATO gave MONTHS of warring that it would be considered an act of war

if you think the war is to exterminate filth and varmint, do you think Iraq is a better country than before the invasion? yes...yes i do you kill innocent people for no other reason than religion then thats what they are filth and varmint...

you have to be a fool to NOT think Iraq isn't a better place, they hold free elections..women have equal rights, kids have better schools.. you have to be insane to want it the "old way" the rest of the world is in the 21st century..time for them to join us
20:46 October 8, 2010 by ngecenk

yes, exactly, iraq IS a better place. just a few bombs here and there, nothing we cant handle, right?

yes youre right too, because in 21st century, the freedom FORCE the people who believe in the 'old ways' to think like they do.

and Afghanistan is two of a kind. the only improvement in Afghanistan is it has become one of the most narcotics producer in the world. im just saying that this war has led to nothing. there is no better option here. we're already stuck between two ugly option.
21:17 October 8, 2010 by Tdye
@ ngecenk

im sure the bombing that we did 8 yearss ago was a horrific thing.. and i feel sorry for your people (im assuming you are iraqi) but in the same breath it was the Iraqi leader that brought this on your country..i bet if you were a Kurd you wouldn't be singing the praise of Saddam..i have NOTHING against Muslims i have a problem with radical ones.. as do i with Radical Christians i am an educated Atheist this means that i have learned a great deal about many religions and "radical Muslims" are the worst of the worst..they completely misconstrued what the Qur'an says.. your profit was a peaceful loving man.. not some enraged killer..but there's an old saying (at least in America maybe in other country as well) "one bad apple spoiled the bunch

yes youre right too, because in 21st century, the freedom FORCE the people who believe in the 'old ways' to think like they do. ..again i can only assume here.. are you saying that all of the Iraqi people wanted to live in the "old way"? because what i remember was when we found Saddam hiding in a whole in the ground was the Iraqi people cheering and crying tears of joy..you could see smiles on every iraqi person around.. remember that all of the Saddam pictures,statues etc.. remember how people took off their shoes and beat the pictures and statues with them..if im not mistaking when you take your shoes off and wave them at people it is disrespectful to the other person...so it seemed that Iraq wanted change they just couldnt ask for be because they wanted to keep their heads on their bodys

as far as Afghanistan that country has been growing opium for many many many years BEFORE the war started.. that's how the Taliban got its funding

and to go back to your question.. we dont force anything on your people..we brought your country freedom and by "we" i mean every troop fighting over there..except the french

P.S. we ended the war with Iraq..as soon as your military gets the yellow off their backs we will leave

@big5..did i read that wrong or did ole dude try to compare the taliban with the KKK? lol thats a riot!
22:46 October 8, 2010 by ngecenk
@Tdye no im not iraqi and im nowhere near there. and no im not a muslim either. i think a im a leftist who willing to hear 'the other side of the story'.

im just surprised that until this very moment, there are still guys who thinks the decision to go for war is the right decision. even the current US presidency want to get the hell out from there. i was hoping you as an american (if im not wrong), can understand more than me that the war you've gotten into, has brought you nothing but took from you everything. even the economy is collapsing and everyone curious why we spent so much on the war. but again, i cant say anything more about that.

hope the best for all the swedish in the war.
23:33 October 8, 2010 by Tdye
@ ngecenk

yes i am an American

I never said the war war right.. i said it was justified you dont seem like a "leftist" to me..if you were willing to listen to both sides of the story you wouldn't have bashed America and Americans we didnt "get in to" a war.. it was brought to us.. perhaps we should have just tucked our tails between our legs like Sweden seems to always want to do on important issues..

dont get me wrong I LOVE Sweden and Swedes..hence why i am on this website.. i want to learn as much about Sweden as i can..but the fact remains.. Sweden is soft when it comes to defending themselves

you also have to remember that the current President had nothing to do with this war.. he inherited this mess that Bush created..contrary to popular belief..We don't get to decide on issues like wars.. or anything really ...we have a 2 party system which has completely failed from the start of this country.. we dont have Parliament (which is a great idea)

also contrary to popular belief America really isnt that bad off when you do the math..Sweden has what..9 million people? America had 250+ million people the current rate of unemployment is at around 9 % your country ( if you are a swede) is a bit over 7%..by far Sweden is in worse off shape than America..

1 USD = 6 Kronor..so that shows that even at the current rate of Americas "problem" our money is stronger than yours

I think it is great that Sweden decided to become a peaceful nation.. however it's people are suffering by living blindly.. you think that no one will start a war with you? wake up and realize that America is on Sweden's side as is Sweden is on Americas side.. i come to this site to enjoy the culture.. look at the beautiful women..read about current events..and i see post after post on how my country is bad and we did this and that bla bla bla..it gets kind of old... even though America has an attitude problem I as a white American born and raised here have to defend it with vigor

I love Sweden and hope to live and die in one of the greatest country's in the world....Sweden...blaming "America" for everything is the same as saying all Muslims are bad.. blame George bush and his people..99% of Americans dont want this war..sure at first hell yes! kill them! but as time went on and bodys piled up..Americans started to see that it was Bush's war....but one thing is for certin.. we aren't going to just run a way..you mess with the bull you get the horns
08:13 October 9, 2010 by big5

You wrote:

"im just pointing out that the whole war on terrorism is a nonsense. its based on a wrong foundation, motivated by wrong reason, and will end up with a wrong condition."

If you have a few minutes, could you explain what is the wrong foundations, what is the wrong reason, and what is the wrong condition it will end up with?

And what would be the right foundation for fighting islamist jihadist terrorism, the right reason, and how will we get to the right condition?
22:57 October 9, 2010 by ngecenk

i would like to but its just gonna lead us to an endless debate. i once lived where 'my kind' is a minority and lesson learned is when you're not agree with the majority, thats the time when the terrorist-alike label put on your head.

everything bad can be 'justified' if you switch your point of view, yet it doesnt make it right.
08:46 October 10, 2010 by big5

I thought debate was the whole point of posting opinions on fora. By explaining your opinions you make it possible for possible weaknesses in your thinking to be revealed. That's the only way for any of us to make progress.
19:19 October 10, 2010 by ngecenk

yes but on the internet, its harder to convince the other party about your mindset. also the lack of information about the other party background, its harder to find a suitable words without offending too much and being emotional :)
19:38 October 10, 2010 by rafa1981
@ big5

I think that your position is a bit naive, as I assume you know, and unlike in Vietnam war, Afghanistan info to be published must pass a filter, what makes you think that this institutions are with free hands to say whatever they want? what makes you think that if we do a massacre there it will arrive to your ears via official channels? if they want to have some little credibility the can' t attack constantly talibans, from time to time they claim something against their creators.
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