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Scrap wind power veto: environment minister

TT/The Local/vt · 4 Feb 2011, 08:44

Published: 04 Feb 2011 08:44 GMT+01:00

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He believes that in certain cases, the national interest in renewable energy must take precedence over the autonomy of local governments, citing security issues.

"Here, we must change so that local authorities are not just listening to opinions and saying no without even trying to resolve conflicts. If it does not work, it may be necessary to remove the municipality's veto power," Carlgren told newspaper Svenska Dagbladet's (SvD) website on Thursday.

Forestry companies and agriculture must shoulder the burden to address environmental problems as well, the minister added.

Carlgren wants the Confederation of Swedish Enterprise (Svenskt Näringsliv) to be a driving force in environmental work, become a partner in the development of new technologies and not be reluctantly dragged into it.

Within forestry, he wants companies to increase their nature conservation ambitions and not strictly rely on effective forest management, SvD reported.

Story continues below…

In agriculture, he hopes producers will work more on nutrient problems and change farming practices to significantly reduce nitrogen emissions, as well as proposing a green tax to deter pollution.

Carlgren added that he believes the Centre Party has an aggressive environmental policy, but is also attentive to the needs of the poor and wishes to push the environmental debate beyond the "leftist hegemony" endorsed by the Green Party.

TT/The Local/vt (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

09:22 February 4, 2011 by Nemesis
This is a good idea.

More wind power, less imports of oil from unstable and dangerous regimes.
11:26 February 4, 2011 by rba
Wind power is a great thing.
12:04 February 4, 2011 by Rey Stockholm
Please read the background facts. Wind Power may be good in theory but hopelessly inneficient ! Ie less than 10% of actual output.

When you consider the fact that you need to have other power station types running on inneficient standby to take over when wind drops (from minute to minute ) ie means that any benefit from wind is lost.

You would have to cover the whole of Sweden in wind farms to meet demand, and even then need back up for when wind stops eof sweden
12:50 February 4, 2011 by Eddymu
+1 to Rey's comment...

Personally I'd like to see a study which breaks down the total energy consumed in producting a single wind turbine against how long it would take that wind turbine to generate back the energy consumed in its manufacturing...

On the note of manufacturing I mean not just physical construction I mean everything - including processing of raw materials.
14:07 February 4, 2011 by rba
Eddymu there are plenty of such studies, and you could have found them quicker than you wrote that post. EROEI (Energy returned on energy invested) for wind is usually quoted at 20 to 1, or more.

Regarding Rey's post, note that Denmark is a small country and they manage to get quite a significant portion of their electricity needs from wind. The bigger the country is, the easier it gets because the wind is always blowing somewhere (and in some places it's almost always blowing).
14:11 February 4, 2011 by calebian22
Wind power is a great thing, when the wind blows. Otherwise it just blows.

When you hear comments like, equivalent to the output of two nuclear power plants like we heard about the big farm up north, you have to remember this is maximum output where the wind is actually blowing. Wind energy is a green wetdream, but like all wetdreams it pales in waking reality. Too bad the green politicians who are in charge are asleep.
14:50 February 4, 2011 by samwise
it sounds familiar, yea, you have to listen to us, for the sake of "common good". Most of the evil things are done in the name of "common good", my friend.
14:57 February 4, 2011 by engagebrain
Wind power is obviously intermittent so an important issue is how to store power.

A cute method is to use surplus or cheap power, whenever available, to pump water uphill and run it down hill through a turbine when needed.

Since Sweden has hydroelectric schemes buffering out intermittent energy sources is very achievable.
15:28 February 4, 2011 by Swedesmith
At the present time there is no one solution to the energy dilema. Each small step in the right direction gets us that one step closer to renewable energy.

I would rather see wind generators being built than sending soldiers to unstable countries to protect oil interests.
16:40 February 4, 2011 by UScitizen
If anyone has ever watched the SVT forum, they should put windmills up in there. Talk about blowing a lot of hot air.......
16:47 February 4, 2011 by millionmileman
How on Earth do these Wind Turbines work in such a harsh Swedish winter? The same turbine brands in the US and UK are frozen from noticeable use.

Keep warm and go nuclear.
17:27 February 4, 2011 by rba
millionmileman I read an article about those frozen turbines in the US, it turns out they were built in California and used hydraulic fluid not designed for harsh winters.

Given that Denmark (not that different from Sweden in terms of weather) is one of the biggest producers and users of wind turbines, I imagine they have given that some thought.
18:11 February 4, 2011 by Staffs
Blow it out of your ass Calgren
18:31 February 4, 2011 by Arturio
The problem of wind turbines is given by the following three points:

- very high initial costs

- disfigurement of the landscape

- the magnetic field produced by the turbines can cause health problems.
19:25 February 4, 2011 by Rey Stockholm
Re RBA comment. Yes bigger country but it does not change the facts wind is not constant, Denmark has also back up plants running on idel and very inefficient.

If the argument was about hydro very different as this is very green and very reliable.

In the end we can all argue as much as wel like but it will be nuclear as population growing / consumption increasing and even the greenest leftie does not want the lights to go out when the wind stops
21:10 February 4, 2011 by NLys
Couple of points:

In other countries wind power generation has increased reliance on imported gas. During 2010 the owners of gas-fired power stations in Spain were paid 1,008 million euros to compensate for the time they were kept idle.

Spain has built them concurrently with wind farms to provide electricity when there is no wind.

The installed capacity of CCGT (gas) in Spain was 2,756 MW in 2002; 12,514 MW in 2005, and 25,000 MW in 2010. This is the part of its green energy policy that the Spanish government doesn't crow about. 98% of Spanish gas is imported.

The Danish wind build is only manageable because Denmark is effectively a very small part of the German system and also has very large interconnectors with Sweden and Norway. The amount they use domestically is less impressive and the problems caused are revealed by the recent linking of wind generation tariffs to the spot market, this means that when the wind blows strongly the turbines shut down!

See the CEPOS report, 'Wind Energy, The Case of Denmark', September 2009, for details of the cost to the economy of the Danish wind experiment.
19:35 February 6, 2011 by bygnads

i read a few of your comments and while being v funny and witty at times, do not give alternative solutions.

if we want to see more catastrophies like the recent bp one, then we should change nothing.

oil is old technology and for the most part, its spent. (thats why theyre continously having to dig deeper and deeper where its harder to access, maintain, etc.)

nuclear is as nuclear does, it creates toxic waste that we dont know how to dispose of or what risk it could pose in the future.

while wind power isnt the only solution, i think its very beneficial, in the proper location, location is paramount, wind turbines shouldnt be considered for places with insuffient wind movement, but there are places like that here in sweden.
14:58 February 7, 2011 by spindi
Maybe put the wind farm out at sea like they have done off the coast of the UK? I'm no expert but it always seemed like a good idea to me. Granted maintenance would be a bit more difficult but the likelihood of anyone complaining would be minimal. Given the correct placement they could be quite efficient also.
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