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Upbringing not culture affects criminality: study

TT/The Local/pvs · 19 Mar 2011, 16:06

Published: 19 Mar 2011 16:06 GMT+01:00

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The study by researchers at Stockholm University shows that any differences disappear when a comparison is made between Swedes and immigrants who were brought up in similar socio-economic conditions.

"The differences do not depend on 'immigrant cultures' being more inclined to crime or some such. Instead the most decisive factor is the conditions immigrants live under in Sweden and if they can acquire the resources which are necessary to live a comfortable life," one of the researchers Jerzy Sarnecki told the Dagens Nyheter newspaper.

The study shows that when controlled for factors such as parents' education, employment and income then the differences for the most part disappear between those born in Sweden and those born overseas or with foreign-born parents.

Sarnecki explained that the most important factor is that immigrants are able to find a job when they arrive in Sweden.

"Then their children will be much better off," he said.

The slight differences which do remain in the crime statistics could perhaps be explained by discrimination within the justice system, Sarnecki said.

The research team has mapped the lives of 66,300 people who left school 1990-1993 until 2005. Criminal histories have been compared to socio-economic conditions experienced during childhood.

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There is furthermore no scientific evidence to suggest that differences in criminal behaviour can be linked to countries of origin.

"That criminal behaviour within various immigrant groups could be explained by cultural differences is something we can dismiss entirely," Jerzy Sarnecki said.

TT/The Local/pvs (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

18:00 March 19, 2011 by planethero
Det stämmer.

Absentee father or poor father role model is the main issue.
18:05 March 19, 2011 by calebian22
Well then the onus for integration failure can now be laid at the feet of Sweden. Sweden is the problem. What a surprise.
18:14 March 19, 2011 by Nemesis
This is nonsense.

Several of my relatives were injured where I grew up in Northern Ireland. My school at the time was not even a bad joke. I had to study for my O levels and A levels, on my own. There was no hope at all growing up of a job, income, or anything resembling a possible good future.

Why have I not decided to run protection rackets, create mayhem and be a criminal? The reaon is, I don't want to be a criminal.

In Sweden, Swedish nationals have everything handed to them. The same applies for refugee's.

European nationals, Chinese, Thai, Japanese and Latin American have to support themselves with no assistance, yet they are the least likely to resort to crime in Sweden.

The reason for crime in Sweden is because some people want to abuse the system that took them in and discriminates in favour of them against Europeans, Thai, Chinese, Japanese and South American people.

Everyone has a choice to be a criminal or not. It is purely the choice of spoilt little brats, who should be deported upon committing a crime, regardless of consequences. Then they would obey the law.
18:32 March 19, 2011 by Rishonim
There is furthermore no scientific evidence to suggest that differences in criminal behaviour can be linked to countries of origin. Romanians, Albanians, Ex-Yugoslavia etc ,,,,
19:32 March 19, 2011 by iammucow
Nemesis: It's nice that you're not a criminal, but statistics are pretty meaningless for the individual. Just because you came out fine, doesn't mean everyone in your same situation would have. Look at the prisons, they're not filled with people that just woke up one morning and decided to rob a convenience store, they're filled with poor and desperate people.

I would argue that European nationals and Japanese in particular are less likely to become criminals because they're probably wealthier than average immigrants, not because they come from less criminal cultures or less likely to abuse the system. I also find it funny that you include people from Latin America as people less likely to be criminals given that in the US they get blamed for virtually every ill in society. Isn't it amazing how poor immigrants get blamed for all the evil in society no matter where they're from? Of course, the problem is never that they're poor, but that they're from "over there".
20:37 March 19, 2011 by technoviking
This is chicken/egg rhetoric.

You're a criminal because your upbringing was bad because you're poor because the culture you come from is a violent, immoral trainwreck that causes everyone to be poor and miserable.

If you come from certain cultures, you will very likely have a bad upbringing because that culture is cr@p.

Most serial killers had terrible upbringings too. This doesn't mean I sympathize with how they ended up.

Change the culture, then the economy changes, then the upbringings change.

But instead we're supposed to pretend that all cultures are the same and ignore this link in the chain.
20:53 March 19, 2011 by mojofat

To answer your question, because it's statistical and not categorical.


"If you come from certain cultures, you will very likely have a bad upbringing because that culture is cr@p."

Hmm, well aside from being incredibly racist it's also uninformed and illogical. All cultures aren't the same, but there are some core principles that one can see across them. For one, those who deviate from expected societal norms tend to not go on and breed thereby passing on their genes. If there were, hypothetically speaking, a "culture" or society that rewarded criminal behavior, it would be unsustainable because it would implode. Therefore, all cultures have some expected norms for getting along with one another and behavior that is generally accepted. Think of the Ten Commandments...not that I look to them as the singular moral compass of all people, but it does hail from a culture that you would probably term cr@p; yet, it provides a general outline for morally acceptable behavior.
22:09 March 19, 2011 by Syftfel
It is unclear to me why this axiom needs to be stated. Of course it's upbringing and not culture per se. However, since the overriding priority in any society is to protect its citzens from harm and violence, and many cultures result in offensive behavioral norms to Christian/Nordic values, culturual profiling will go a long way to address what is obviously a torrential crime wave amongst certain cultures in our midst. How else can we address the slow motion social evisceration of Swedish society. Lenin himself stated: " if you want to make an omelette, you've gotta break a few eggs", something which ought to be palatable to most of you leftists out there. It is time for Sweden to "break a few eggs", in order to solve its seemingly upward pointing crime wave.
09:34 March 20, 2011 by expatjourno
So unemployment is the cause of "honor" murders, right? Attitudes that the murderers bring from their home countries have nothing to do with it, right? And the fact that no looting took place in Japan following the earthquake and tsunami is a result of Japanese prosperity, right? The fact that the U.S. is the most violent society in the developed world is a result of its comparative poverty, right?

I note with interest that the researcher doesn't have a Swedish name. Could he possibly have decided on his conclusion before he did his research?
09:35 March 20, 2011 by mojofat

Can you cite that from Lenin? That's a new one on me: attributing that quote to Lenin. AFAIK, it's an english proverb.

"culturual profiling will go a long way to address what is obviously a torrential crime wave amongst certain cultures in our midst."

How so? By "cultural profiling" you mean segregating all the "brown" people, yes? If this is one of your "cultural values" then perhaps it's your culture that's offensive.

"How else can we address the slow motion social evisceration of Swedish society."

You haven't explained what you think the "slow motion social evisceration of Swedish society" is, but I'll take a guess that you think anyone moving here who is "non-swedish" is part of the problem. Maybe the "problem" is that "swedish" society is too narrowly defined. For good or bad, Sweden's leadership has decided to pursue an open, multicultural society. Personally, I think it's good but it's a two-way street. While it's fair to expect immigrants moving here to move towards the western style way of doing things, it can also be assumed that your "swedish" society is going to evolve and change with it. It's just a fact.
09:59 March 20, 2011 by Streja
Nem, people from Latin America came to Sweden as refugees.

There are also criminal south americans because they have been brought up in segregated areas just like Swedish criminals were/are.
10:33 March 20, 2011 by Nemesis
@ Streja,

I have met a lot of people from Chile, Brazil and Eqador here in Skåne. I have yet to meet one that would even consider getting involved in anything criminal.
10:40 March 20, 2011 by nevon
Yeah Streja shut up, Nemesis's extensive life experiences and the frequently flaunted fact that she's from Northern Ireland trumps any kind of organized research or logic.
10:48 March 20, 2011 by LeoKinmann

All you talk about is personal experience. Everyone else are talking about statistics. Plz do realize they arent the same thing. Latinos are probably an ethnic group not as discriminated against as e.g. Muslims in Sweden. But elsewhere they get blamed for lots of things. Ever lived in USA?
11:30 March 20, 2011 by uunbeliever

Thank god (or Allah or Buddha or Shiva. . .)that there is at least one educated rational non rascist person in this country besides myself.


You are a rascist and should probably stay in Skåne, where y'all voted in the Sverigedemokraterna.
13:30 March 20, 2011 by LeneO
This contradicts a number of other studies and statistics. Immigrant males age 20-29 years old with the origin of the Middlleast, especially Palestinians, have a record of being far more criminal than other immigrants. When you read about their personal lifestories from specific studies, you will find that violence within the families is the way of solving problems, the father is extremely authoritarian, and boys grow up to have a very biased perception of themselves in their relationship with other people, deriving from an extremely maledominated culture as the middleeastern culture is. It simply is a very different cultural setting from the one they have come to in Scandinavia.
13:50 March 20, 2011 by nevon
What other studies and statistics? Males aged 20-29? Where did you get such a specific age interval? Sounds like you're pulling an awful lot out of your ass. Feel free to prove me wrong.
15:28 March 20, 2011 by jacquelinee
I am a canadian immigrant, Christian, Non criminal, decent family. I find the undelying message of the article is that if the "immigrants" who come from as moral, ethical, prosperous financially stable place as Swedes, will be non criminals. I would be interested to see the ratio of Swedes versus non Swedesparticipating in the study. I.E. 50 Swedish rapist to 50 Immigrant rapists- 50 wealthy Swedes to 50 wealthy immigrants- 50 Swedish university graduates to 50 immigrant graduates etc. I can tell you first hand, jobs ARE a concern. But the BIGGER concern is the frank racism and discrimination expereienced AND not so much by the general Swedish population, but government adgencies. Example? Monetary "prizes" for teachers at SFI (Do any of them have a teaching degree) for fast turnover of student "graduates" I can tell you people are "GRADUATING" with inadequate language and skills so "teachers" can claim that bonus. Then, the phone being hung up on you when asking for assistance in your broken Swedish BY A SKATTEVERKET EMPLOYEE!
16:45 March 20, 2011 by dammen
you can do any thing with statistics - even prove your Caucasian grandmother was born yesterday to a black family - we all bend down to statistics when in reality they only show what we want them to even if they have odds ratios and a multiple regression - we choose the confounder and the independent variables and so on - this way we manipulate the figures
18:04 March 20, 2011 by skatty
"Men make their own history, but they do not make it just as they please; they do not make it under ciecumstances chosen by themselves, but under circumstances directly encountered, given, and transmitted from the past. "

18:05 March 20, 2011 by Argentina84
"Instead the most decisive factor is the conditions immigrants live under in Sweden and if they can acquire the resources which are necessary to live a comfortable life,"

Sorry, but not only immigrants need to acquire the resources necessary to live a comfortable life...

And what about white collar criminals? Did the study take those crimes into account?
19:45 March 20, 2011 by Uncle

"Hmm, well aside from being incredibly racist it's also uninformed and illogical. "

How is saying a culture is a pile of cr%p - racist? Behind the seemingly educated words hides a fundamental misunderstanding what racism is.

Let's say that a culture of certain country is racist in it's essence?

Pygmies in CAR are suffering from slavery that is protected by the CAR govt, that defines it as a "cultural difference". Governments in many muslim countries are promoting anti-Semitism as a part of culture and traditions. Certain darker people in India and China are discriminated based on their skin colour and there are no laws that are protecting them from the "cultural perk". Whites in Zimbabwe are executed under govt protection etc....

I am not even starting on the cultural "strange" treatment of women who cannot choose a husband, open a bank account or show their face. Certain cultures consider usage of children soldiers or prostitutes as a common and traditional thing.

There are definitely cr&p cultures and calling racist - "bag of sh#te" is not racist at all. Trying to respect and "understand" them is a pure idiocy.
20:35 March 20, 2011 by mojofat

"Trying to respect and "understand" them is a pure idiocy"

Yet, by your statements you've clearly understood them well enough to make all of these value judgements...therefore you are pure idiocy??

The point here (since these comments seem to be straying off of it) is that upbringing is what is the determinant factor in whether you grow up to be a criminal. You act as if no white person/native swede ever committed a crime...and that any "brown" person from some country whose name you cannot pronounce is destined to be a thief or rapist. The data are not making statements about what "culture is cr@p", as you have so eloquently put it, and which ones are superior (my understanding is that you believe the "white" cultures to be superior...hmm, yet this is clearly not a racist statement). The fact that you're so quick to use culture as your strawman indicates to me, and probably most, that you are indeed either a racist or have racist tendencies. That's for you to work out, but it's not what the article is about.
21:20 March 20, 2011 by arnuxii
This is garbage science and does not prove what it is supposed to prove.

People who have similar value systems have similar crime rates regardless of which country/race they come from was what was established.

But of course the relationship between that race/culture and the proportion of members of that group having a particular value system is not established.

This is the trouble with the loony left, they are happy to lie so long as the lie is politically correct.
21:44 March 20, 2011 by Uncle

First if all, there is "understanding" in the sense of accepting and "understanding" in the sense of comprehending what is happening. Think of which one I meant, mojofat. From 3 times....

Now, your assumption (which is a PURE assumption) is that I value "white culture" shows you as a pure demagogue. What is funny is that you assume that all western societies are white, which also puts your "open mindedness" in question.

Western democratic societies with the rule of law were built also in Japan, South Africa, South Korea, Singapore, Chile, Armenia, Uruguay and many more. They are not white in YOUR sense of the word, are they now?

You want specifics? For example, I value Buddhist societies cultures higher than any "white" culture. At the same time, I believe that the "white" culture of the 20's and 30's was a huge PILE OF FECES. Nazism was popular not only in Germany, but throughout the entire western european/ N. American world.

I believe that many CURRENT cultures are also a pile of sh¤te, but "open minded" commie liberals as yourself are posing as accepting the little cultural perks, like circumcising 12 y/o girls with a broken piece of bottle or shopping a slave on a government protected market. Or just do not notice them.

And WHY you do not notice them? The answer is clear. You actually think that these cultures or people DO NOT KNOW BETTER! You treat them like challenged children, right? That is why you do not care when Iraq invades Iran to get some oil, but are REALLY upset when the "white" persons are doing it. You do not give a jack that 5 million died in Congo between 2001 and 2004, but you are REALLY upset about Afghani dead from the "whites"...

Who is racist here?
01:23 March 21, 2011 by caps.lock
there is no "criminal culture" in the world. cultures are different but even in most problematic country of the world not everyone is criminal. therefore some racist comments above are just funny. I cant believe in my eyes and in my ears when I see/hear some swedes accuse other cultures as the main source of the criminality of the people who come to sweden from those cultures. it is enough progressed country how come there are still so many stupid people around, and they are actually writing comments...
11:38 March 21, 2011 by Bobafetto08
You people are pathetic! Like mindless drones without a critical thought in you mind, you consume everything the politruks of the state feed you This so called study by Jerzy "Snickesnacki" Sarnecki aka "Baghdad-Sarnecki" or "Baghdad Bob", is politicized research at its best. Sarnecki is the tool, the state uses to spread desinormation - like a farmer spreads dung on the fields - about the wonders of multiculturalism in general, and more specifically to hide the negative impact that Muslim immigration has on Swedish sociaty.

This research proves that immigrants have the same crime rate as ethnic Swedes, the only problem is that his study is BASED ON OVER 23 YEAR OLD DATA, and only follows immigrants from European countries, who arrived in Sweden before 1988, which is before the large-scale non-European immigration began. The crime levels of today are directly related to the mass immigration of Muslims after 1988, that's why they chose to focus on earlier data which consisted mainly of European immigration to Sweden.
12:21 March 21, 2011 by Jes
@Nemesis , "criminality " is in the eyes of the beholder . A racist from Skåne is not going to agree with you when you remark that Latinos don`t get involved in things criminal . All they need to disprove you is the story of one famous opera singer from Chile who is in jail for having a raped a girl in an expensive Hotel . The racists of Skåne will tell you that most of the drugs on their street are brought in by Latins from South America,; plus that all Thailand women are prostitutes -prostitution is a crime in Sweden , that is .

@ iammucow ,

I agree with you . When a Swedish police officer get caught for having raped 12 women , statisctics don`t show what race is .; when a serial rapist is the courts of Örebro , no one wants to talk about his race ; they talk about hos "sick " he must be .

Now I have to wonder to where Nemisis wants these 2 men be deported to
13:55 March 21, 2011 by Uncle
And again commies are trying so hard to pull everything to racism. How can you not understand that assuming that a culture has nothing to do with race?

Moreover, the fact that you connect violent and criminal infested cultures to race by ASSUMPTION, makes you a racist? Don't you really see that? It is like claiming that laws against crack consumption are directed against blacks, because of own prejudice.

There are bad and rotten cultures. If commies need a safe ground of "non-racism" here, or "let's bash only europeans, instead of others" methodology, I could say that apartheid culture in SA was not brilliant.

(There is of course a fact that apartheid from the whites was supported by many blacks, who got to preserve their culture, but shhh... i promised to bash only europeans. This is not racist then. )

Colonist culture was not great either.. (Only european colonists of course, since arab colonisators were wonderful).

Burning whitches in hundreds of thousands was perhaps a bit of an exaggarated reaction to deseases....

Consumption culture of the current industrialized nation was not the best for climate..

What is funny is that while it is so easy to bash europeans and west in general, but it is so hard to see how others are doing horrible things.

Isn't it clear that a woman status of a tradeable good in many countries may be connected to the higher rape stats? Isn't it clear that in lands where a life of a person is not highly valued within the society morals, there will be more people inclined to murder? Isn't it obvious that in lands where child psychology is not existent, education through beating would be common?

How dumb some must be, to press on political correctness even on the internet?
15:15 March 21, 2011 by Jes
@uncle , good that you ask how dumb some people can be . I have read your post 3 times and decided that it is the dumbest one so far . What exactly are you trying to say here ?

Some help : the question is whether it is ubringing or culture which affects criminality . You are here long enough to know that some racists in Sweden have published "statistics " that prove nothing but their own stupidity .

" Studies " and " statisctics " that are done by racists and based on racism are always going to produce racist results .

For that reason , you will never hear racists saying that the Swedish Police Officer who raped 12 women did it because of the culture he comes from or the upbringing he got . They will say "he is sick " and send him to a nice prison for only 6 years !

If he was black or muslim , the whole black race or religion would be made to look responsible for providing yet another criminal .

The point is that there is a tendency to put collective blame on some races and members of some religions , and this is what some of these so called statistics are attempting to potray .
16:11 March 21, 2011 by Bobafetto08
I apologize for not linking in my previous comment, to a credible source of verification to corroborate my statement that professor Sarnecki indulges in academic acrobatics on the highest level, as he tries to manipulate facts and distort reality to fit a hidden political agenda. The data used in his research is for the most part on European immigrants and their children, prior to the massive influx of immigrants from MENA in the middle of the 90's. The below is a link to Jerzy "Baghdad Bob" Sarneckis own words:

The dataset used in the empirical analyses includes all individuals in the larger Stockholm metropolitan area who attended and finished ninth grade between 1990 and 1993 (N = 66,330 individuals) and whose parent(s) immigrated at least five years prior to this date (i.e., before 1985 to 1988). The latter restriction is necessary in order to have an adequate measurement of parental resources, since we risk underestimating the level of resources of immigrants close to the immigration date, before they have had any chance to adjust to their new home country.


Ps I also noticed that misspelled society. It should have been with an e not an a.
18:01 March 21, 2011 by technoviking
@ mojofat

You are just another moronic multiculturalist who would like to simplify the world by painting all cultures with the same rose colored brush. Sounds great and it may help you sleep better, except that it doesn't reflect reality.

I will go on record saying some cultures are inferior to others, but tell me once where I have ever mentioned race?

Is it race that is making Africans hack each others limbs off over tribal differences and mass rape "enemy" women? No. It's culture.

Is it race that causes the servile view of women in the Middle East and the abhorrent numbers of violent and sexual assaults against them.? No. It's culture.

These people were taught flawed and terrible values and ideas by their cultures and they've been done a horrible disservice.

Some Africans were raised to violently hate neighboring tribes. Many Muslims were raised in a superstitious, patriarchal culture with a dim view of women and an even dimmer view of "infidels" and our freedom.

You say these cultures would implode if they were not "like us". You ARE RIGHT. Because when I look at these parts of the world, I see continuous, ongoing violence, chaos, poverty and implosion unlike I see here where we have a superior culture.

But of course you will probably blame the West for these things, as will they, and as a result no one will actually try to change these miserable archaic cultures for the better since they are "just like us" regardless if they hold values we find disgusting and barbaric.
18:22 March 21, 2011 by misscat
@Uncle, you wrote "... I value Buddhist societies cultures higher than any "white" culture."

...You value?...Hahaa..WHAT AN IDIOT!!! What's your mission? STUDY MORE!

'There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way and not starting.' - Buddha-
19:15 March 21, 2011 by mojofat

You've displayed an almost breathtaking ignorance...I wouldn't know where to start if I were to try and educate you on every flaw in your crippled thinking. I'll limit it to a couple thoughts:

"Some Africans were raised to violently hate neighboring tribes. Many Muslims were raised in a superstitious, patriarchal culture with a dim view of women and an even dimmer view of "infidels" and our freedom."

Yes, and so have "some" christians...but has this not crossed your culturally superior swedish brain? Maybe because you're too busy counting out the tax dollars you send to your state supported church?

"You say these cultures would implode if they were not "like us". "

Now you're clearly just making things up. I never said that.

"You are just another moronic multiculturalist..."

Ahh, you mean "American"? The epicenter of multiculturalism? Then yes, you're correct on that point. Although I take issue with moronic...only those who know me well are qualified to make that assessment.


Who still uses the word "commie"? What are you, 80 years old?


19:53 March 21, 2011 by Uncle

Haha, you read my post 3 times and THIS is what you understood? You are an exemplary genius, who is digging under the leftist side just by talking.

Your only argument is that I am dumb and racist.That is the only resort you feel yourself safe. Look at mojofat - HIS argument is that nobody uses the word "commie". Look at misscat. His argument is....eehhh... Gosh... really no idea what was that..

Good argumentation from the left communist (OK, mojofat? Fashionable enough?) side of the opinions spectrum. How embarrassing it is to be out of argumentation and resort to names. How embarrassing for the socialist racists not to be able to understand distinct definition "culture" from "race", when even the article mentioned that they are not the SAME.

Studies in this article claim that the only link of immigrants to crime is their relative success here in Sweden... I would LOVE to know whether this applies to immigrants coming from CULTURES that do not promote violence, suppression of women, execution of minorities and all the other favourite cultural differences of some here.

I would also love to know whether relative success in Sweden is related to CULTURAL differences, or whether the immigration statistics are completely the same for all CULTURES (capital letters for those with racial understanding deficiency).
21:01 March 21, 2011 by misscat
Uncle, what's cultural assimilation? Tell me...
21:11 March 21, 2011 by krattan
Has the intelligentia from Flashback forum suddenly joined the Thelocal? Although they are quite right that the works of Sarnecki is not something one should quote as a source in any form of credible debate. I would like to know who pays for his research. Would be nice if some journalist could do some journalism for a change.
01:36 March 22, 2011 by technoviking
@ mojofat

For someone so full of name calling, empty declarations of your intelligence and holier than thou blustering, I see a lot of meaningless empty rhetoric and absolutely nothing substantive...

Oh, yes, you compared modern Christians (who I'm no fan of) to people who commit mass genocide and rape, honor killings and sentence blasphemers to death, etc. Perhaps if this were 1650AD. Very realistic and intelligent comparison.

Oh but you said cultures are equal because they all have expected norms and collectively accepted behavior that must be moral or they would "implode"... sounds like Social Darwinism to me. At least you've jumped from the 1600's to the 1800's.

Like the collective morals where a family brutally murders their daughter for having pre-marital sex? Is that the sorted of shared expected norms that you mean make them equal?

Or perhaps when gays are jailed or executed because they go against a culture's accepted behavior? That sort of collective morality?

Or maybe you mean the 84% of Muslim Egyptians who support stoning to death adulterers? That makes their values as good as ours right?

Or did you mean ONLY the Western accepted shared norms that YOU LIKE...

...while you stick your head in the sand and ignore what you don't like, you clueless, tw@t.

Spare us the empty blathering. Unfortunately for people like you, reality is rendering your meaningless propaganda obselete.

Though I'm sure to you, acknowledging that brutal and abhorrent values exist in other cultures and are unacceptable is "racism". Better to just hide from it.

Maybe ask a girl who's been through a forced circumcision, some poor kid who's being brainwashed in a Madrassa, or the persecuted Jews in Malmo for that matter how equal our cultures are?

PS - I was raised in the US but thanks for the amazing "insights", genius.
07:37 March 22, 2011 by mojofat

Look "genius", the point is that you are full of hot air with absolutely no data to back up your arrogance. This article is about data, with the thesis being that upbringing affects later adult behavior. Well duh, I thought this would be obvious...I can always count on a few dim bulbs though to prove me wrong.

If you're so certain of your position then I would assume you have some data to back it up. But all you have to offer are some overly broad generalizations, half-truths, and anecdotal evidence. Further, you mistake your subjective value judgements for black/white quantitative facts.

And please quit telling everyone you're from the US. The rest of us already have too much to do in repairing our image abroad. You're certainly not helping.
09:40 March 22, 2011 by zerotolerancenow
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
10:05 March 22, 2011 by Jes
Helo Uncle ,

it is reported today that sexual abuse against animals ( especially horses ) has risen by 20 % in Sweden .

The report is silent about what kind of people are responsible for this crime . my guess is that they are mostly white Swedes .

I would like to know if this crime is associated with a culture or upbringing .

Regarding your question on what the "studies " found , you will have to first figure out if the 2 elements , i.e , CULTURE and UPBRINGING are not inter related . The producers of the above article don´T seem to know this .
11:51 March 22, 2011 by LeneO
So here are some official statistics from Danmarks statistik from 2009, and you can find similar statistics from other countries: Men of foreign origin are more criminal than average for all men: 21% of men age 20-29 years old of foreign decendant were convicted of crimes, while the same accounts for 8,4% of ethnic danes. There are however big differences among immigrants: Palestinian men are 137% more criminal than average, and it is mainly violence they are vinvicted off. (Numbers are cleansed for socio-economic inequalities). Turks, somalians and pakistanis are twice as criminal as average, while chinese, german and american immigrants are half as criminal as average. So why is it like that do you think ?
12:35 March 22, 2011 by si
So why do you think LeneO is asking misleading questions ?
15:17 March 22, 2011 by Bobafetto08
LeneO, you observation is absolutely correct - in particular when it comes to immigrants from non-Western European countries i.e. mainly those firmly adhering to the ROP. Check out this Norwegian newspaper article from 2009, that states that all the 41 violent rape cases in Oslo - involving assault and battery - during a time period of 3 years (2007 - 2009) were committed by men of non-Western European origin.


The die hard multicultural appeasement lobby in Sweden, would however have you believe that the very same men that committed these offences in our neighboring country Norway, would act differently were they ever to cross into Sweden - they can not explain why, they just know it would be so. And in fact when statistics now show that Sweden has become the rape capital of Europe, with the continents highest number of reported rapes per capita (second highest in the world), who do you think the state assigns to pull the wool over the eyes of the people? Yes you guessed right, who else but good ol' Jerzy "Baghdad Bob" Sarnecki, who vehemently claims that the number of rapes have not increased, rather only the propensity to report the crime.
16:17 March 22, 2011 by kanton
Some readers seem to be skeptical about the piece of research reported by this article. I think one is always entitled to a certain degree of skepticism to statistics-based research. But this degree of uncertainty is constrained by the "confidence level" specified for the test, which is generally viewed as more reliable than gut feeling.

Some fellows use other statistics to dispute possible implications of the research. But I am inclined to suggest that the researchers in this case probably started with the knowledge of earlier studies. Their objective is distinguishing the effects of two possible factors to crime conviction, rather than disputing a known pattern. To make an analogy, here we are not trying to dispute that Swedes are better skiers than Danes - we have sufficient statistics to confirm this common knowledge. The question is why. Are Swedes simply more talented, or better trained? Or perhaps both? Here we need more than just statistical numbers, but a statistical method called factor analysis for understanding the most probable reason that leads to a certain pattern. The results will give the Danes a clue how to improve, or at least a clue whom to blame (their trainer, their genes, or their landscape, etc). But the results will by no means twist the fact that Danes needs improvement to match the Swedes in skiing. Therefore in my opinion, some arguments above seem misdirected.
16:43 March 22, 2011 by si
That was very politely conveyed Kanton - unfortunately I'm not sure that your target audience is interested in the mechanics of statistics and significance - shame though - the local comments seem to be riddled with those who persue an agenda of bias armed with numbers and fear.
17:04 March 22, 2011 by kanton
I actually appreciate some candid arguments above. Despite the sometimes derisive languages, I think you guys are actually showing each other a lot of respect by devoting so much effort to addressing others' points while making yours (potentially risking exposing yourself to a fatal blow, ha). To quote from a book on doing research, the most discouraging words you can hear from your audience are not "I disagree with you" - we all live with that; but "I don't care about what you say". I think we all can learn from each other by exchanging opinions. Whether people use the acquired knowledge to better understand others or to crush enemies harder, though, I am not really sure. At times there is a temptation to do both, I have to admit.
18:14 March 22, 2011 by technoviking
@ mojofat

There is so much easily found data regarding the madness of particular cultures that I would assume you'd at least tried to formulate some sort of argument around that, but of course you've posted your brilliant "insights" on here without ever even having tried to see if maybe you were wrong...

There's this amazing thing called "Google" you can try, but if you need the work done for you here are some numbers proving what I've mentioned previously...

Some very comforting opinions held in the Muslim world:


140 million women subjected to female circumcision:


Gay persecutions


I could post 1000 more things in this vein but I don't want to violate TOS. Please try the amazing "Google machine" yourself before posting your trite meaningless rants.

And please answer me this:

If immigrants are a random sample of these populations, do you think they miraculously just drop these beliefs and behaviors once they cross the Swedish border?

Unfortunately for you, there is no data supporting the vapid "We Are the World" platitudes you spout, so I'm sure you'll stick to name calling and haughty (failed) pretensions at higher intelligence.

Have a nice day.
10:11 March 23, 2011 by Bobafetto08
*Correction* were committed by men of non-Western origin - there's a heck of a difference.
21:39 April 6, 2011 by mr. doctor
these people are from a completely different culture, not european. congratulations to sweden for having such wonderful diversity with savage, non-european animals. oh, was OJ the white killer from a horrible background??? good luck with your diversity sweden! remeber, you are european, you have european history, not congoid history!!!
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