• Sweden's news in English

Union backs conductor who kicked girl off train

The Local/gm · 4 Aug 2011, 16:05

Published: 04 Aug 2011 16:05 GMT+02:00

Facebook Twitter Google+ reddit

The girl, who was traveling between Örebro and Gothenburg with her older sister, was forced off the train at a station in Kumla, about 20 kilometres south of Örebro.

Her whereabouts remained unknown for nearly 12 hours until police learned that she had been taken in by a concerned resident who found the 11-year-old sobbing near the Kumla station.

The conductor who decided to force the girl off the train was suspended on Wednesday while national rail operator SJ conducted an investigation of the incident.

Meanwhile, the conductor's labour union SEKO has quickly come to her defence, criticising the rail company's handling of the whole affair, despite the fact that she was following the letter of the law by her actions.

”It is a difficult situation, and the person involved made an assessment based on what she knew. I don’t think she would have taken this course of action if she had known how young the girl was though, she based her judgement thinking that the girl is older than eleven," Lennart Jansson SEKO senior safety representative at SJ told The Local.

"If there is some good to come from this regrettable incident, it underlines how important it is that we have clear guidelines on what action should be taken, that all employees are aware of and follow. There is a document already but it seems not so many are aware of it."

He added, "In future everyone, the rail companies, staff and unions need to work together to ensure incidents like these don’t happen again.”

The plight of the girl has created a media storm and a wave of criticism directed against SJ.

Social Democrat leader Håkan Juholt even weighed into the debate criticising the rail company for its handling of the case and the way the girl was treated.

SEKO is also highly critical of the response it feels SJ the railway company has taken.

”We think that SJ's behavior is populist and beneath contempt. This is just about making a scapegoat and they have put all the blame on an individual employee without having all the facts on the table," Erik Johannesson, chairman of the union’s negotiating organisation, said in a statement.

Meanwhile the conductor at the centre of the whole case has gone into hiding following her suspension.

Story continues below…

”I spoke with her yesterday and with a colleague who has more contact with her. She is feeling really bad and has gone away to a summer house somewhere," Jansson told the Aftonbladet newspaper.

As the row rumbles on, Aftonbladet has revealed that a similar incident occurred on a train from Stockholm to Gothenburg on Thursday morning.

According to the report, a 25-year-old was made to get off the train in an unscheduled stop at Barkaby just outside Stockholm because, even though she actually had a clip ticket for the journey, she hadn’t registered it in the machine.

After a long argument with the conductor she was apparently made to get off the train despite finally agreeing to pay a supplement.

The Local/gm (news@thelocal.se)

Facebook Twitter Google+ reddit

Your comments about this article

17:29 August 4, 2011 by prince T
The least the conductor could have done is to call the police or social services. Why should her parents let her travel alone in the first place. The conductor's act is wicked. If i was on that train I will fight 2 death for the minor.
17:40 August 4, 2011 by akhokhay
Agree with PrinceT

Is he that dumb and didn't think why an 11 years old girl come in train without ticket

he should call police or Social service!

I still think he should be fired!
17:49 August 4, 2011 by conboy
It was a woman - the company are suggesting that she ignored company guidelines while she showed bad judgement they have a role toanswer for as well.
17:51 August 4, 2011 by mamegoma
I'm curious about the parents' thoughts?

If it was my daughter or son who got kicked off I would give them hell. Can they really not let 1 CHILD ride on a the train for "free" and do the morally correct thing? I think the judgement was made too hastily.
17:52 August 4, 2011 by Stickeroo
If I give one to you, then I have to give one to everybody else! So said the Eskimo with his pringles....! They can't let it slide for her, or every 11 year old will start riding free. Blame the parents, not the conductor or SJ.
17:53 August 4, 2011 by canuk
NO, you dont pay you dont play, is the child mentally handicapped? not able to carry her own ticket?
17:53 August 4, 2011 by occassional
Here come the dodo unions defending a moron who doesn't even know how to stick to her job description. Shame.
18:01 August 4, 2011 by andyron2
Conductors are not supposed to make calls to social services when someone doesnt show a ticket.The second incident confirms how the SJ conductors are working.Blame the SJ's behaviour.
18:02 August 4, 2011 by gh2008
not surprised at all

its a Catch-22!
18:08 August 4, 2011 by Rick Methven

The girl and her older sister may have had a digital ticket on the older sisters mobile.

I have an SJ ticket for 4 adults and one child to go to Arlanda next month. Is the conductor in his/her rights to throw my wife, son, daughter-in-law, and 5 month old granddaughter off the train if he/she comes to inspect the tickets when I am in the loo?

What if all 4 adults are in the loo and the baby can not produce her ticket, will she be thrown off the train. Actually, if it was Kumla, she should be OK as we have relatives there
18:12 August 4, 2011 by RobinHood
"In future everyone, the rail companies, staff and unions need to work together to ensure incidents like these don't happen again."

That seems a perfectly reasonable thing to say in the circumstances.

The conductor mistakenly believed the girl was older than eleven, showed rotten judgment and got the company guidelines wrong. Perhaps,some "words of advice", followed by a suspension, followed by some retraining, followed by a lengthy period of observation, might be a more mature response.

The posters above have clearly never made a disastrous mistake at work before.
18:42 August 4, 2011 by Rick Methven
@ Robinhood

I agree with you that lessons need to be learned and action taken. What is wrong, is the union backing their member who clearly made a big error of judgement and shifting the blame to SJ. My neighbour who is an SJ conductor says the rules are quite clear and a conductor should not throw a minor off the train. Moreover she should have required ID in order to confirm her view that the girl was 16
19:15 August 4, 2011 by Boyfriend
"Ryanair" is asking the dying passenger on board to pay for Soda and Sandwich And

the SJ is kicking out a child at night.

What should I say here? Is this is the Western European culture?

I blame it on society without fearing God, the minute you are away from God's teaching it would make you look like krokodil. Always money money.
19:22 August 4, 2011 by Streja
The older sister was on the news earlier and said in English that the ticket inspector who threw her sister off the train was the same woman who had sold her the ticket. The older sister had asked her why she was only given a one vuxen, and the woman had answered ohh that's fine. So the ticket inspector must have been blind, not being able to remember thw two girls. The trip to Kumla took about 13 minutes.
19:23 August 4, 2011 by canuk
@Rick Methven

how hard would it be to give the mobile to the 11 year old? all i hear are excuses. you dont produce a ticket you get kicked off, the rules apply to everyone.

if a baby is sitting in her seat alone with 4 adults in the toilet then they should all be kicked off and the adults be handed off to the police for child abuse.

BS BS BS.......keep making excuses.
19:27 August 4, 2011 by Triniswede
I think it time you folks take time to understand how process works.. or is it just stupidity out traveling with trains?

1)train tickets are personal ( exactly like airline tickets)

2) on your tickets it states clearly that you should be able to provide an identity document ( just like airline tickets)

can you fly without a ticket? or id? or money? and what about children? and unaccompanied minors?

Conductors are not responsible or accountable for placement of your tickets or valuables.
19:29 August 4, 2011 by Streja
canuk, read my post. Her sister had paid for their ticket and had gone to the toilet. The trip to Kumla took 13 minutes. It is not common practice to expect a ticket inspector right after paying for tickets. People usually go to the toilet after having paid. It's normal. I always wait. The girl probably had to wait in a queue for the toilet or she may have had a bad tummy ache, regardless, the ticket inspector should have remembered her.

Where were the other passengers? Was the train empty? it might have been but if I had been there I would have informed the inspector.
19:30 August 4, 2011 by Triniswede
The 11 year old girl in question was asked if she had a ticket and refused to answer, also if she had money and she didn't answer as well? what was she a retard? why should this conductor have to take bs for this? She did the right thing.. no tickets, no money.. then get off.. like anywhere else..

another thing? if the girl was aware that her sister was on the train why didn't she point this out to the conductor? she must have know where her sister was? it takes more time before a person if advised to leave the train, because that is what is done.. no conductor pulls you out of you seat and throws you off.

I travel 20 days a month with trains, and there are so many people teenaged, children and otherwise who show no respect to these conductors, who just hoop on the trains with out tickets and just expect to travel for free? why should everyone else pay ? and these children*S parents? what do they say? WHy should one person be allowed to ride for free? when everyone elses has paid..

I have had a really interesting encounter today.. the guy that sat next to me on his way to Alvesta from Stockholm, for reasons unknown "couldn't purchase his tickets online" the conductor on ticket collection was advised of this, and the guy was allowed to purchase a ticket on the train, which logically costs more.. the passenger then starts arguing with the conductor that he should be given some compensation from SJ because he wasn't allied to purchase his tickets online and now has to pay more.. to this with grace the conductor replied at Stockholm central station there is a travel butik and ticket machines, on our website there is a telephone number to our contact center, there are more ways that one to purchase a ticket. Why get on the train if you don't have one?
19:44 August 4, 2011 by canuk
streja, yes a train car was on fire, and a meteor hit the last carrage and a diabetic in the first train was going into shock and needed medical attention, oh but wait, they all had their tickets.

Black, white, brown, purple, you dont have a ticket you get kicked off. The conductor did nothing wrong.

excuses excuses excuses. i would definitely do the same if i were in that role. lots of people try to scam the system by not paying, hiding in the toilet for instance. in the end, the rules are the rules.

triniswede, i totally agree with you.
19:49 August 4, 2011 by canuk
migga, finally a voice of reason. there should be charges laid to the two children as there appears to be something fishy going on here, definitely a fine for not purchasing tickets.
19:57 August 4, 2011 by Douglas Garner
I feel the union's position is grossly wrong. To back the conductors actions is no different than justifying a brutal nazi guard who was "just doing his job"!

In Sweden, a child under 15 is not responsible for criminal acts anyway... so, was the child responsible for being on the train from a legal perspective? If not, how can you justify kicking her off? Even if turned over to the police, she could not be arrested or fined!

My 11 year old and I travel by SJ with my Swedish wife who always carries the tickets. I have rarely been asked to show my ticket. As the girl was from Somalia, I strongly suspect that racial prejudice came into play. Was the child behaving poorly? What of luggage? As the conductor could not understand about the sister, how could she even ask if the child had baggage?
19:59 August 4, 2011 by canuk
your right douglas! she should move back to somalia or kongo or whatever as her country of origin keeps changing. Im sure there they dont check for train tickets to ensure that all the customers have paid.
20:00 August 4, 2011 by jacquelinee
What a surprise! (NOT!)

I truly am psychic. I could have told you THIS outcome the second I read this story yesterday. No accountability as usual, just a nice rest at her summer home probably at full pay because she is so stressed. I wonder how stressed that 11 year old girl was wandering around some scary, strange town all night. (We'll just sweep that bit under the rug though)

Any idiot could figure out to call the police and ask what to do with this child. NOT buying the... " I didn't know she was so young. "

This country's PR should read.....

Welcome to Sweden. The country where you can do pretty much anything and not be held accountable.
20:01 August 4, 2011 by canuk
not uncommon at all for these 'refugees' that come to sweden to always be under 15. there was a case last year, where there were 4 boys, one of them looked 30! but yet they were all 15 years old, good coaching from their side in their country of origin. lie about your age to get everything given to you for free. and then go ahead and rape some women while your there, its ok, they are not muslim.
20:19 August 4, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
For the majority of the comments published on this thread, it seems that the authors work for

the train company.

Some, even write that the girl was travelling alone.

Children, children: The whole story is based on

1.- An 11 year-old girl is kicked of the train

because she could not produce a travelling

ticket that her sister had, but, unfortunately, the sister was in the toilet.

2.- The girl is of African origin.

3.- The conductor never (apparently) thought about´that the girl was going to be left in the middle of nowwhere at night and a resident of the place took care of her.

4.- The conductor is so sad about the fuss she created with her action that followed the letter of the Law, that whe is hiding somesher in a Summer house. Poor conductor. She has broken my heart.

5.- The SEKO people are the "if" people and nothing more.

6.- Whether we like Juholt (I do not) or not, he is damn right with his criticism that the girl was badly treated.

7.- And those who wrote that the girl should have explained this or that to the conductor, have forgotten that the girl barely spoke the incredible beautiful Swedish language and that she might had been really scared to face a conductor asking, or perhaps shouting to her to shoe the trzvelling ticket.

8.- Until a full investigation of the incident is done, I think that it would be good if we stop with the speculations, because if Reinfeldt's grandmother had wheels, she would be a byke.
20:21 August 4, 2011 by jostein

You are a voice of reason.
20:23 August 4, 2011 by gh2008

what i find uncommon is the fact that you joined the local on the 10th.Jul.2009 and you have posted 124 times on the local, six of them on this article!!! most probably all of your posts are certainly on themes like the one we have here; and i can track them if needed!

please stop watching Glenn Beck and enjoy life! is it that hard to enjoy life?
20:23 August 4, 2011 by Gamla Hälsingebock
After all this uproar, I don't think tickets will be necessary any more...who would risk their job by removing ticketless passengers of any race, color, ethnicity...etc.. and face this kind of mean spirited media exposure.

I repeat this story just does not sound right.

The "child" answered no questions from the conductor, could she be illegally in the country?
20:25 August 4, 2011 by jacquelinee
@ canuk

Don't be calling yourself "canuk" it is insulting to the rest of us that are Canadian. I do not want to be associated with your bigoted attitude and have people think Canadians as a whole think like you. Are you from the First Nations in Canada? If not, then your history is one of being a "refugee" of sorts yourself. Good coaching from your land of origin coming to Canada and stealing the land with a bunch of glass .....beads you blatant hypocrite!
20:33 August 4, 2011 by jostein
Well, the likely outcome of this story is that conductors stop asking for tickets from youngish foreignlooking folks :D Comic.
20:39 August 4, 2011 by Kevin Harris
As happens quite a lot these days, The Local's headline is provocative and misleading. The union does not "back" the conductor kicking the girl off the train. It objects to an employee and member being summarily dismissed within hours of an incident, without any form of investigation, and without the employee being allowed to state her case. Sweden's laws about this sort of thing are very strict, and despite all the ranting going on here and elsewhere, it may well turn out the union is correct and SJ has broken the law, and the conductor will (quite rightly) be entitled to a very large amount of compensation.

There has been quite enough rule breaking going on in this matter, without SJ making it worse. Right now, there are a bunch of expensive employment lawyers working for SJ, slapping their foreheads and saying "You did what!!!" Several months from now, you (and I) will squirm at a headline that says something like this - "Conductor unfairly dismissed, receives 3 million SEK compensation."
20:42 August 4, 2011 by jacquelinee
Maybe if the idiot passengers had opened their mouths and told the conducter she was with someone ot the conducter used her brain instead of acting like a lemming and phoned police or actually the sister used her brain too and left the ticket in case the conducter came.

I don't care what the circumstances...you don't throw a kid off a train.
20:44 August 4, 2011 by J. L. Belmar

Take it easy, because you might turn out to be one more of the "canuks" who enjoy insulting not only Canadians but even their own forking families. Your # 23 comment was right on target, the

same as the one made by my adorable enemy Tricky Rickie in # 12. He had a very good point there.

An common Gamla Helsingebok at # 28. Your

"The "child" answered no questions from the conductor, could she be illegally in the country? " comment, is really "clever".

Just because t girl comes from Somalia, does not mean she is illegaly in the country. Your way of thinking might be on the same line as the conductor's way of thinking.

@jacquelineeee You got what you wanted about Wallenberg. Just check. Something else. I followed your advice and now my

news website shows who is the producer. Thanks for the tip.
20:46 August 4, 2011 by Rick Methven

from 99.99% of his posts, canuk shows none of the open minded attitude that all of the Canadians that I know and am proud to call friend.

In his case, small minded bigot comes to mind
20:50 August 4, 2011 by canuk
it seems that all of you commenting on my posts are somewhat mentally retarded, PASSANGER DOES NOT HAVE A TICKET. YOU ARE REMOVED. this is not hard to understand. My views are shared by millions of canadians, if not all, except for the criminal ones.
20:53 August 4, 2011 by jostein
Anyway, noone knows how old this girl/woman is. According to flashback she is listed as below 16 but her facebook account has only friends that are 20-30 years old. The siblings range from 17-24 or somesuch and some of them have birthdays on 1 january which indicates that their age is whatever they want it to be. The picture ive seen of her (face pixeled) shows a short person with a womans body. Not possible to estimate age without the face.
20:56 August 4, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
@Rick Methven

I can assure you that jacqauelineee is tops. I only know to Canadians, one is this lady and the other one lives in my country. You are so right about "canuk". I can see that you have analized his/her/it/ writings and came to the conclussion you came.
21:00 August 4, 2011 by canuk
i also have come to many conclussions....in fact i come to conclussions whenever i read a story......i have come to a conclussion about you mr belmar.
21:00 August 4, 2011 by jacquelinee
@ canuk

The passenger had a ticket, and if the idiot conducter had been courteous and kind and helpful, like they are in Canada by the way, it would not have taken very long to resolve the issues. After all, they are only a limited amount of things you do in a bathroom and they don't take hours.

I don't know what part of Canada you come from but for your information, just because you are not a narrow minded racist bigot, it does not make you a criminal...it just makes you intelligent.
21:05 August 4, 2011 by canuk
really, the passenger had a ticket? even though the proof is that her friend said she never bought one for her (on the advice of the conductor)? and didnt speak any swedish, or english, maybe a def mute...but wait, she does speak swedish, and didnt respond to the conductor, and instead of reacting without your brain jacqueeeeellinneeee maybe you can see that there was some type of scam going on here.
21:07 August 4, 2011 by lovedealer76
@Rick Methven sorry as far as i can guess,that wasn't the case your trying to defend here,your just upset unjustly i'm afriad.

It's wrong would the 11year old did and her sister knew but its seems thay just wanted to play the system,it was up to the conductor to use her common sense to consider the young girl not that the young girl was right.

With my experience with this train conductors,i think most of them are generous as far i've notice anyway though they can be exceptional caseses,it was a sad situation but i don't think is right to suspend the conductor in this case,SJ as far as i'm concern,just looking for someone to blame.

Also for the young girl parent,they seems to be iresponsible parent to me,how can they let a young child travel without ticket or maybe the older sister is to blame but not the train conductor....
21:31 August 4, 2011 by Gamla Hälsingebock
"An common" Belmar!

An common Gamla Helsingebok at # 28. Your

"The "child" answered no questions from the conductor, could she be illegally in the country? " comment, is really "clever".

In case you did not know...sentences ending with...?...are called "questions"... not comments.

Is that "clever" enough for you to understand?

Please note again...that last sentence is what is called a question also!
21:38 August 4, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
21:00 August 4, 2011 by canuk

i also have come to many conclussions....in fact i come to conclussions whenever i read your comments, which are made "potatismos" by almost everybody writing comments. My conclussion about you, Mr. Canoe, is that you either fly a kite or take your canuk and start rowing while singing "And they I row, row, row, way down the s..., etc, etc. You are a pathetic canuk, more canuk than pathetic which is far worse. I cannot even advice you to grow up, because you are too little (mind, body and soul) to be able to grow up.

Your "really, the passenger had a ticket? even though the proof is that her friend said she never bought one for her (on the advice of the conductor)? " comment will be the 2011-2050 Nobel Prize for

21:50 August 4, 2011 by canuk
Hi belmar, in case you have not figured it out, you cant spell and have the grammer of a 5 year old. hence why im making fun of your spelling. Your sentences above are difficult to understand but i believe you are trying to insult me. Goodonya!

Canoe, and Canuk, these are two different things. one is a boat, the other is a reference to a Canadian. what country are you from mr Belmar.
22:05 August 4, 2011 by jacquelinee

Wow you really are a bitter dried up heartless excuse.

I am not sure most 11 year olds meet with their friends and discuss ways to scam the government. That just does not somehow sit rightt. As far as I remember, when I was 11, I was watching cartoons and playing with my Barbie dolls, not out involved in militant anarchist crime rings. But thats just me.
22:14 August 4, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
21:31 August 4, 2011 by Gamla Hälsingebock

Touché! Sorry I goofed. I simply forgot that you too can be ironic with your ??? question marks. Let us keep on moving, shall we?

21:50 August 4, 2011 by canuk

I never imagine that we were learning here how to write "proper" English and not to make grammatic mistakes. But if this is the case, you should have writen "can't" and not "cant" in one word. "Can't" means cannot and cant means quite another thing. And just to prove the ranking of your intelligence, your "Canoe, and Canuk, these are two different things. one is a boat, the other is a reference to a Canadian" comment, really gets the prize. Do you really think that posters in The Local threads are as stupid as you? You are the one who is insulting people here.

@ jacquelinee and many other, have already a complete classification about you. It did not take them 2 minutes to figure what kind of a Canadian are you. Poor Canada if it has more Canuks like you destroying the beautiful Canada.

By writing that you believe that I am trying to insult you, shows what kind of intellect you have. I am not trying anything, I am just insulting you, because that is what you deserve.
22:21 August 4, 2011 by canuk
belmar: you are iranian.
22:21 August 4, 2011 by kenny8076
"The girl, who was traveling between Örebro and Gothenburg with her older sister"

well it says she was traveling with her older sister!!! So why is everyone crying about the parents?!? how old was the sister, it doesnt say so how can you judge the parents? maybe the sister was 30 or 20, who knows..... once again this is a very fishy story. and did the sister not get off the train with the little girl?
22:34 August 4, 2011 by Gamla Hälsingebock
J. L. Belmar...#46

Read and understood.

Only time will reveal the truth, we can only guess and "flame" each other! LOL

22:34 August 4, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
22:21 August 4, 2011 by canuk

Wrong! I would have stone you to death by now. Iran does not cope with "canuks" like you. I wonder when will you kicked off Canada.

22:21 August 4, 2011 by kenny8076

You are right. For your knowledge, after many years of living in beautiful Sweden, I found that almost everything is fishy, sounds fishy and looks fishy.

Your reasoning is the type of reasoning some kanukies would like to have, but do not (don't).
22:47 August 4, 2011 by conboy
She went to the toilet the conductor threw the little girl off the train before she came back. The little girl had poor Swedish and no ticket. I think the conductor should spend an evening walking around in a strange town in a country where she does not speak the local language having been thrown off a train - I am sure she would feel a sense of insecurity even as an adult.
22:48 August 4, 2011 by jostein

The sister claims to be 22. But noone knows since these claim to be refugees. 90% of refugees arrive without papers in sweden so their age is whatever they say it is. Read my post above where i report what flashback has ferreted out so far.


Comon, for crying out loud! This case is two youngsters who were freeloading and got into trouble and are now lying thorugh their teeth in this mess they are in and with their application for PUT still pending. What would you have done? Nothing wrong with youngsters trying to get a free ride, nothing wrong with tossing them off the train either, boys will be boys, as it were. The problem starts with this crazy old lady who keeps this girl/woman/whatever for over 12 hours without contacting anyone. And it goes south when aftonbladet gets hold of this story. If you take the tabloids as gospel, well, cant help you, you are beyond repair. Just use your bleeding minds, comon, are daft or what? You can choose? THINK? Have you never been young?
22:57 August 4, 2011 by canuk
Belmar, im sure you know how your own country deals with people that dont follow the rules. thanks for the update that i would have been stoned. Jostein, your the voice of reason.
23:11 August 4, 2011 by jostein
Anyway, here is the pixeled picture that exist of her, unless you are friends with her at facebook, im guessing. She looks short to me but that might just be her family, if anyone cares to do some legwork they could check out pictures on her siblings. If they are short too her stature wont mean much age-wise. If her sisters are 6-foot tall the lot of them, 11 years old suddenly looks less implausible.


But its really not that important. I belive in the principle, no ticket, no train ride. Its a good principle that keeps the trains running. And if this case is the worst ever, well, noone died and noone got maimed. Proves the principle is a good one.
23:34 August 4, 2011 by Smallnose
The conductor has to face the music, although i firmly believe she just played at sight.
00:01 August 5, 2011 by Puffin
Jeez you lot are disgusting The "train fare" that this child is accused of evading (according to some of you) was the princely sum of 5kr!!!!

With the summer prices at the moment children under 15 pay only a booking fee of 5kr when they travel with a fee paying adult!!

According to the articles I have read in the Swedish press the sister booked SMS tickets and while she went to the toilet and while she was gone the conducter came along and threw the little girl - and yes she was a little girl juding by the pictures in the papers showing the police bending down to talk to her.

The conductor has been credited with a number of different excuses - so perhaps she'll decide on one of them when she has had a few weeks resting at her holiday home!

I think it is digusting the way that some of you on her are supporting this young girl being thrown off the bus into the night without a thought for her saftey - the child was so distressed that the woman who found her thought that she'd been raped!! But then I am the mother of young girls and my daughters have had some similar experiences with busses home from school caused by poorly trained staff - my daughter aged 12 and a 9 year old neighbour were dumped miles from home by a bus driver who didn't know the route so made up his own - we were lucky that a neighbour drove past as they were thrown off the bus and picked them up!!

Some of the arguments trying to justify this action are just pathetic - I guess it would be a differnt tune if this was YOUR 11-year old
00:22 August 5, 2011 by jostein

So, you send your kids on trains without tickets regularly? If so, i think you are a bad mother.
00:32 August 5, 2011 by Swedish Meatbulls
Bloody Unions!! Your member lacks two words.. Common Sense. And so do you!
00:56 August 5, 2011 by Puffin

Where do I say that my kids didn't have tickets? What I said is that poorly organised public transport and poorly trained staff have a habit of dumping kids off busses and trains with or without ticket

So this occurs when they HAVE tickets as well - this was the case of my daughter and neighbour as they both have annual bus cards paid for by the kommun - they had tickets but the company had sent an untrained bus driver who had no knowledge of the route and dumped all the kids off on a main road miles from home when he got lost

This has occured multiple times and at one point last year I was in daily contact with Swebus and the kommun about this - although kudos to my older daughter who has autism - she refused to get off where the driver wanted to dump her 10 miles from home and made the driver take her home

However I have seen plenty of businessmen in First class without tickets and some pathetic excuses - however they are never thrown off - funny that
00:59 August 5, 2011 by Beavis
Well Swedish workers making good jugements, you must be joking! Im suprised she didnt ask the girl if she had an OAP pass.
01:21 August 5, 2011 by Luke R D
Ahhhh, there's the Sweden I know and love! And the funniest thing is some Swedes will even be asking what all the fuss is about, "she was doing he job"!
02:27 August 5, 2011 by gh2008


Puffin, no matter how many times you narrated you daughter's story! jostein would only see this part:

"the company had sent an untrained bus driver who had no knowledge of the route"

so he/she would blame it on an "immigrant" who was untrained bus driver.

with all due respect Jostein, i can roughly see how you get your conclusions; based on biased attitude. you were so determined to accuse others for not being smart enough to smell your rat tale despite the facts given! your fixation is blinding you! nonetheless, i don't think you are beyond reconsideration.

sir/ma'am, i can see ,between your lines, that you are implying to the immigration issue and how bad, you think, it came along. if so, try to contribute to this problem in a fair, positive way! can you?
03:22 August 5, 2011 by h2m
It had happened to me six months ago. I was travelling between uppsala And Soderhamn when i noticed that i had lost my money in the middle of the journey.A kind and easy going women allowed me to travel till Gavle for free. It took me another six hours to reach Soderhamn
04:42 August 5, 2011 by countrysidedrive
How STUPID AND MEAN can the conductor be. How STUPID is the union for supporting this IDIOT. The conductor should be FIRED AND PROSECUTED for her actions. Throwing a child off the train in the middle of nowhere is CRUEL. FIRE HER. And anyone supporting her DUMB ACTIONS is a COMPLETE IDIOT.
06:46 August 5, 2011 by xexon
Adults are legally and morally obligated to look after the welfare of a minor child under their control. It doesn't matter if you know the child or not. That's where the line was crossed.

Western society has become too fixated on by-the-book laws and we have forgotten how to "feel" our way through such a situation.

It doesn't reflect well on what we've allowed ourselves to become.

07:42 August 5, 2011 by jostein

Ok, well, i know nothing about your busrides. Thing with these sisters is that the big sister changed her story and order of events every time she talked with the press.


Well, make this story believable with facts? Answer the issues raised by migga or me for example? The story does not add up. But we can argue this forever, we wont get anywhere until we have a picture of this girl so we know what the conductor based her descicion on. Only other tidbit is that the police said she looked 15.

The logical conclusion of what you are saying is that conductors should just avoid youngish foreignlooking people. Since you think they should be fired if they enforce the payment rule against them? What do you think the long term reaction is to that? Or that the police is contacted each and every time a youngish foreignlooking person is lacking a ticket? What do you think will be the effect of that?
08:10 August 5, 2011 by tuerd1982
I never imagine this heartless conductor was a woman, it is kind surprise to me.

It was also very surprising that she "gone away to a summer house somewhere" for take some sunshine!!!!

I am also quite amazed with SJ's employment standard. How they get this kind of dumb who can't judge child's age (of course this isn't easy some times) but when she couldn't judge why she don't ask from her. From earlier report I got the impression that that little girl can speak very little Swedish, so I believe if conductor ask she can able to answer in Swedish. She should be fired.
08:22 August 5, 2011 by comentatir
They keep saying "if she knew the girl was younger" ! Well, she did not know the girl was older either! The girl does not speak Swedish that good they announced. That's where she was wrong! Taking a decision without knowing but observing, misjudging!
08:37 August 5, 2011 by Rick Methven

Ever thought that the apparent change of story from the older sister may be due to either her poor Swedish or the press twisting her words to put a different angle on the story.

If this had been a blonde haired blue eyed girl, I winder how different, the comments from you would be as well as the stance of the Union and the press?

You made assumptions right from the start and blasted your views here. Since then, having been proven to be the racist slob you are, you have desperately tried to twist things to justify your stance.

09:02 August 5, 2011 by jostein

My original position was, and still is, no ticket, no train ride, which i posted as #10 in the other article. Then i checked around on the web, read the flashback thread, all 90 pages of it (its 150+ now), and checked out the different links to articles and the like, then i wrote my comment #54 in the other article.

I did this because my confidence in swedish tabloids is nonexistent. And because flashhback usually get real and tangible information in cases like these, the people there usually get hold of pictures, history, neighbours, childhood friends, well, the lot within a matter of hours.

And yes, i believe no ticket, no train ride applies to blond and bluehaired girls too. In this case, my position would be absolutely identical. And i still would think that the grannys behaviour borders on kidnapping. Or at least is insanely inconsiderate.

My comment #52 in this article is what i find most believable. Is it necessarily the right one? No idea, we have imperfect information. And i wholeheartedly agree with "the press twisting her words". Thats the whole problem, isnt it? The tabloids do not care about right or wrong, true or false. They only want to put a dramatic slant on things and make people scream for blood. Well, you scream, if thats what floats your boat.
09:17 August 5, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
@Puffin Welcome to TL, the cluntry of the never ending threads where too many are just inventing, speculating, insulting, twisting and whatever you might think of.

Where many do not know what a pun is or try to teach you grammar while making huge grammatic mistakes in their advices. Where some will assure that they fully understood something like the following but don't dare to write about "proper" English or grammatical "horrors", not errors: "Welcome ter tl, the bleedin' cluntry of the bloomin' never endin' threads where too many 're just inventin', speculatin', insultin', twistin' and whatever ya might fin' of. where many do not kna wot a pan is or try ter teach ya grammar while makin' 'uge grammatic mistakes in their advices." or

"Welcome ta tl, t' bleedin' cluntry o' t' bloomin' nivva endin' threads wheear tooa menny 're just inventin', speculatin', insultin', twistin' 'n whateva theur meight fin' o'. wheear menny dooant kneur wot eur pan is or try ta lern theur grammar while makin' 'uge grammatic mistakes i' thea advices."

So Puffy, take it easy. If you keep on answering to all the nincompoops that some of us face (at) (in) (on) The Local, you wind up being one of them. I made that mistake and believe me, it is not worthwhile (worthwile?). Anyhow Puffin, who cares. We are not at school.
10:07 August 5, 2011 by Migga
The female conductor, who meet alot of people everyday and have years of experience, thought the passanger was between 16 to 18 years old.

The police patrol, when they found the passanger walking the streets of Kumla, thinks she is older then 11 years.

The crazy old lady didn`t contact the police or anyone else.

All these facts tell me that there is more going on then what is reported in the media. If you don`t see that aswell I feel sorry for you. At the same time I can`t imagine how the female conductor is feeling when she is called a racist and criminal in the press.
11:04 August 5, 2011 by gh2008
ironically, this debate seems endless while another article, which was way serious child molestation by all criteria, was neglected and unfortunately didn't get the same focus! sad how emotions and nonsense are becoming today's commonsense. sad how we waste time and efforts for nothing but to prove our arrogance and ignorance!
11:20 August 5, 2011 by awash
Comment: first of all we should be thankful the girl was found unharmed thanks to the good samaritan otherwise she would have been history by now and everybody busy to these stupid candle vigils, demos, memorial service etc etc etc. this a typical union happy to save nothing but their skin and drag the whole scenario forever under the guise of safeguarding their members' rights:((( i was wondering are there any consquences when employee/s break the regulation and put somebody's life at risk? the irony is most of the civil laws are in favor of the defendent as long as the victim wasn't seriously (physically)injured, raped, killed, or disappeared; they never presuppose the worst that entail for the actions of the defender. so, life goes back to normal for some of these pathetic, dehumanized employees with poor judgement until they kick one poor kid off in the middle of nowhere at -20c to be entertained by polar bear or psyco
11:26 August 5, 2011 by PoJo
The conductor is feeling so bad that she is hiding in her summer house??? That sounds like vacation to me.
11:30 August 5, 2011 by svenne104
Comment removed by The Local for breach of our terms.
12:14 August 5, 2011 by Rick Methven
@J.L Belmar.

You, who have only been here a short time welcoming Puffin who has been a member of the TL community for over 5 years. For your information she is also a board moderator so be careful how you behave or you just might get banned.
20:51 August 5, 2011 by David68
hear we go swedens bob crowe mouthing off.she is a silly cow with no common sense and by the way did this kid not have her sister with her who was in the toilet at the time adolf hitler opps i mean the ticket collecter came along!

sack her as this is stupid beyond belief just glad the kid left alone for 12 hours was found ok after this thick cow`s actions who i hope is felling very upset with herself after her over the top handling of this situation!
02:21 August 7, 2011 by Nysvensk
Svenne 104, I saw a picture of the girl in Aftonbladet with a couple of policemen and a woman. No way she looks 17! She is obviously a little girl. She barely comes up to the policewoman's shoulder. Anyone can see for themselves: http://gfx.aftonbladet-cdn.se/image/13422916/800/normal/95362350a74d8/kumla.jpg__mngl_20110805ab5x012%2Cnyh_1.indd_9743.jpg

It was just plain bad judgment to throw a child off a train. How would you feel if your own child were treated that way?
14:28 August 7, 2011 by cogito
@J.L. Belmar, Look at #77 by Rick M.:

"For your information she (Puffin) is also a board moderator so be careful how you behave or you just might get banned."

Notice the threat to have you banned. It is a perfect example of what I described for you in my tips on How to be a Friend of Moderator (#32 on Reinfeldt kid flipping burger thread), Tip #3:

"Never disagree with Rick M. He threatens to run to Moderator to have posters he dislikes censored or banned."

(And, if one is to believe his own boasts, the moderator obeys). The TL Terms and rules apply to some, but not to others, as many have noted.

What was it Orwell said about some animals being more equal than others...?
02:51 August 8, 2011 by Da Goat
What a silly story.

true SJ are not all friendly, when i last visited I found it very confusing for someone from overseas to navigate the SJ system it is much too Swedish if you understand my drift, not friendly to people that are not used to Swedish ways of doing things.

I did find the conductors very friendly and helpful though and also the people on the train (that may have been unusual) I and my mother were treated well but were embarrassed because we did not understand the system (having just got off a plane) the rules of the system are not shown in a foreigner friendly manner (my mum would have been in the same boat as this young Girl if she was alone)

the local trains are pretty easy to navigate and under stand but the "interstate/country trains are a real trap! for tourists I am sure they are unfriendly so that they can catch them out and charge them more with the on the spot tickets, then go back and have a good laugh at the foreigners expense!

It appears that both the conductor and the girl were idiots !

The girl should have at least tried something on with the conductor, being dumb is just stupid, she deserved to be chucked off.

The conductor probably did the correct thing but I am not sure it was right thing (a wee bit harsh, lucky it is summertime)

It is all a bit fishy still so I will not condemn either party, seems like two silly people met on a train! I guess both parties will learn their lessons in the school of hard knocks, so well done everyone.... next lesson please!
20:02 October 3, 2011 by Migga
So here is the conductors side of the story;


From page 8.

So the "11 year old" and her sisters story are all a lie. They were freeloaders and the conductor was right in the way she acted. The way swedish media handeld this is disgusting. And so are many of the comments here.

The true age of this girl will probably never be known, I`d imagine she would get tossed out of the country if it was. I`d guess she is 17 years old.
Today's headlines
Sweden can extend border controls, EU says
A police officer carrying out a check at Sweden's border with Denmark. Photo: Emil Langvad/TT

EU countries including Sweden should be granted permission to extend temporary border controls by a period of a further three months, the European Commission has decided.

Nobel Prizes
'I'd say he's arrogant but I'd be lying': Swedes on Bob Dylan
Bob Dylan performing in France. Photo: David Vincent/AP

Almost two weeks have passed since Bob Dylan was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature and he has yet to acknowledge the win. The Local asked Swedes what they think of the singer's silence.

Sweden cuts 2016 refugee forecast by thousands
A Swedish migration authority office in Stockholm. Photo: Maja Suslin/TT

The country has also slashed its prediction for 2017.

Swedish researchers plan new trucks for women drivers
File photo of trucks in Sweden. Photo: Thomas Johansson/TT

Could vehicles adapted for women attract more female truckers to the profession?

These stats show Swedish driving isn't so gender equal
File photo of a Swedish woman driving a car. Photo: Pontus Lundahl/TT

A new survey shows that few Swedish women get behind the wheel when driving with their male partner.

Revealed: Game of Thrones could be coming to Sweden
Game of Thrones cast members at the Emmy Awards in September. Photo: Jordan Strauss/AP

The producers of the hit show have asked for three rounds of location pictures of Swedish island Gotland.

Prime Minister to meet Swedish troops in Iraq
Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven and his Kurdish counterpart Nechervan Barzani. Photo: Henrik Montgomery/TT

Sweden's Prime Minister Löfven is set to meet Swedish troops in Iraq on Tuesday.

Swedish politicians wage war on winter time
Soon it will look like this on your way home from work in Sweden. Photo: Anders Wiklund/TT

Should Sweden stick with summer time all year round?

'Don't turn the Pope into a global teddy bear'
Sweden's Queen Silvia and Princess Leonore visiting Pope Francis in the Vatican last year. Photo: Henrik Montgomery/TT

It's time to hold the Pope to account and make sure he turns his words about reform into action, argues a minister of the Swedish Church ahead of Pope Francis' visit to Sweden.

Löfven: 'Sweden will double its number of troops in Iraq'
Stefan Löfven and Haider al-Abadi during the visit on Monday. Photo: Henrik Montgomery/TT

Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven has promised to double his country's number of troops in Iraq following a meeting with Iraqi counterpart Haider al-Abadi on Monday.

Sponsored Article
Last chance to vote absentee in the US elections
Property of the week: Kungsholmen, Stockholm
Sponsored Article
This is Malmö: Football capital of Sweden
The Local Voices
'I simply don’t believe in nationality'
Why we're convinced Game of Thrones is based on Sweden
Blog updates

6 October

10 useful hjälpverb (The Swedish Teacher) »

"Hej! I think the so-called “hjalpverb” (auxiliary verbs in English) are a good way to get…" READ »


8 July

Editor’s blog, July 8th (The Local Sweden) »

"Hej readers, It has, as always, been a bizarre, serious and hilarious week in Sweden. You…" READ »

Sponsored Article
Where is the Swedish music industry heading?
People-watching: October 21st-23rd
Sponsored Article
Why you should 'grab a chair' on Stockholm's tech scene
Fury at plans that 'threaten the IB's survival' in Sweden
Analysis & Opinion
Are we just going to let half the country die?
Angry elk chases Swede up a lamp post
Sponsored Article
Stockholm: creating solutions to global challenges
The Local Voices
'Alienation in Sweden feels better: I find myself a stranger among scores of aliens'
Sponsored Article
Swedish for programmers: 'It changed my life'
People-watching: October 20th
The Local Voices
A layover at Qatar airport brought this Swedish-Kenyan couple together - now they're heading for marriage
Sponsored Article
Top 7 tips to help you learn Swedish
Swede punches clown that scared his grandmother
Sponsored Article
‘Extremism can't be defeated on the battlefield alone’
Fans throw flares and enter pitch in Swedish football riot
Could Swedish blood test solve 'Making a Murderer'?
Sponsored Article
Stockholm: creating solutions to global challenges
Property of the week: Linnéstaden, Gothenburg
Sponsored Article
Why you should 'grab a chair' on Stockholm's tech scene
Swedish school to build gender neutral changing room
Sponsored Article
Where is the Swedish music industry heading?
People-watching: October 14th-16th
Sponsored Article
One expat's strategy for making friends in Stockholm
Man in Sweden assaulted by clowns with broken bottle
Sponsored Article
Nordic fashion in focus at Stockholm University
Nobel Prize 2016: Literature
Watch the man who discovered Bob Dylan react to his Nobel Prize win
Record numbers emigrating from Sweden
People-watching: October 12th
The Local Voices
'Swedish startups should embrace newcomers' talents - there's nothing to fear'
How far right are the Sweden Democrats?
Property of the week: Triangeln, Malmö
Sweden unveils Europe's first elk hut
People-watching: October 7th-9th
The Local Voices
Syria's White Helmets: The Nobel Peace Prize would have meant a lot, but pulling a child from rubble is the greatest reward
jobs available