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Swedish parties split on Palestinian recognition

TT/The Local/kh · 1 Sep 2011, 16:34

Published: 01 Sep 2011 16:34 GMT+02:00

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The issue is set to be brought to a head in approximately a month when Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is due to address the United Nations to demand recognition of a Palestinian state.

The Social Democrats and the Left Party want to Sweden and the EU to recognise a Palestinian state while the parties of the centre-right governing Alliance range from cautious to an absolute no.

“Sweden should be proactive,” Urban Ahlin, foreign policy spokesperson for the Social Democrats, told the TT news agency.

This weekend, during an informal meeting of EU foreign ministers in Sopot, Poland, the EU's collective position was discussed.

Currently, Europe maintains a low profile on the issue but with a general sentiment that individual countries with strong opinions on the matter should ideally refrain from any movement on the issue.

The ambition is to stay together to evade interfering with sensitive discussions.

Sweden’s Foreign Minister Carl Bildt (M) posted on his blog that it is important for the 27 EU member states to speak with one voice.

He pointed out that the French President, Nicolas Sarkozy, also called for a united front.

The Swedish government's position thus far has been that a Palestinian state cannot be recognized until, among other things, the Palestinians gain control over their own territory.

“That is international law’s most basic requirement to recognize a state. Everyone knows that it is split between a Hamas government and a Fatah government in their respective parts of Palestine. It has been our objection and it is how we have based our position,” said Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt.

From the perspective of the Liberal Party (Folkpartiet), a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians must first be in place.

“We want there to be two states, there is no doubt, a Jewish and a Palestinian. But it doesn’t work to command it, it must be through a peace agreement. To unilaterally go in and say that one side is right in this conflict would be totally wrong,” said Deputy Prime Minister and Liberal Party leader Jan Björklund.

On the other hand, the Christian Democrats, traditionally a very Israel-friendly party, believe that there may be reasons to consider an official Palestinian recognition as a means to bring Israelis and Palestinians to the negotiating table.

“I think that pressure is needed, something must happen. It cannot be that only one party stops the negotiations,” said Désirée Pethrus, foreign policy spokesperson for the Christian Democrats.

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She stated that such a step, to support the recognition, goes beyond what the government’s policy has been thus far and insists the question be discussed.

She referred to the EU’s Union for the Mediterranean (UFM), a joint committee of parliamentarians in the EU and North African nations, that has called for a Palestinian state to be recognized, with East Jerusalem as its capital.

Pethrus also stated that the EU must give hope for change for the Palestinians in the aftermath of the Arab Spring.

“However, our policy of course is that Israel's security must always be guaranteed,” she added.

TT/The Local/kh (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

18:11 September 1, 2011 by calebian22
"Pethrus also stated that the EU must give hope for change for the Palestinians in the aftermath of the Arab Spring."

Considering that the only thing Arab Spring has done for the Palestinians is to provide Hamas with better weaponry smuggled much more openly through the Sinai) to kill Isaeli citizens, Pethrus' statement is delusionary.
20:00 September 1, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
It does not matter if Mahmoud Abbas, the chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the president of the Palestinian National Authority, keeps on asking all friendly, peace-loving nations to join Palestinians in realizing their national aspirations by recognizing the State of Palestine on the 1967 border and by supporting its admission to the United Nations, as long as there is a Hamas wanting to destroy Israel and as long as Israel faces every day missile attacks. With Hamas, there is no peace and without peace there cannot be a Palestinian state. So why should Sweden recognize an unrecognizable state?
20:56 September 1, 2011 by Tysknaden
No handshake with terrorists!
22:34 September 1, 2011 by millionmileman
I remember when the Arab countries boycotted Denmark over those Cartoons. The Israelis printed bumper Stickers, "Fight Jihad, Eat Danish Cheese!"
22:35 September 1, 2011 by McChatter
"This weekend, during an informal meeting of EU foreign ministers in Sopot, Poland, the EU's collective position was discussed."

How did they do that? The meeting is scheduled for 2-3 September.
22:37 September 1, 2011 by AbangBeruang
As long as Israel continues its policies of state terrorism, there will be groups like Hamas who will continue to thrive. It cannot be right in any sense to hunt civilian populations in Gaza using F16, apache helecopters, etc. One doesnt need to be a Muslim or Palestinian to understand this, if one is a human being, it should be clear to him/her that Palestinians are the victims of this conflict, not the aggressors.
23:07 September 1, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
Originally formed to regain all of Palestine for the Palestinian Arabs, the Palestine Liberation Organization signalled that it would accept a two state solution in 1988. The Oslo accords were supposed to have led to a peaceful resolution of the conflict, but continued Israeli settlement and Palestinian violence and incitement degenerated into open conflict in September 2000.

So, in other words, if Palestinians continue the missiles attacks and Israel does not want to let them to attack, no peace will be achieved, ergo, no Palestinian state should be recognized.
23:43 September 1, 2011 by Uncle
"As long as Israel continues its policies of state terrorism, there will be groups like Hamas who will continue to thrive"

Oh, yeah. And as long as Jews will be living in the world, there is no avoidance for creation of concentration camps for the Jews. Usual rhetorics.

So when Jews did not occupy "palestinian" lands, they were attacked by 7 armies for which the blame is solely on Jews. When they do occupy these beautiful and rich lands, there is no choice for the poor victim to explode in Jewish buses (obviously fighting with the army could be not as efficient. Allah prefers women and children).

Hamas said simply and clearly:

1) Palestinian state will be "Judenrein". There will be 0 Jews even under palestinian rule.

2) If 100% of all Hamas demands will be completed, including releasing all terrorists (sorry, freedom fighters) from prisons, accepting on ISRAELI land 6 million palestinians (who used to be 600 thousand in 1948) and providing them with homes, jobs and pension...

Even if all of this is accepted, Hamas agrees to 10 years of cease fire (Hudna) without any commitment to rockets fired by other organizations on Israel from Hamas controlled territory.

After 10 years, stage 2 of the struggle will be in force. Stage 2 is a PHYSICAL cleansing of the entire territory of Judea from Jewish presence. Not Zionist, but Jewish. The final solution nicely called "phased liberation" by Al-Rantissi.

After all of this, Israel should tell the left wing commies from Europe together with the muslim nazis to go and perform an act of sexual nature on themselves.
00:22 September 2, 2011 by zircon
Stick to the Partition 1948 (British design) resolution.
08:19 September 2, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
23:43 September 1, 2011 by Uncle

Thanks for reminding us what the Palestinians want to do with Israel and its Israelis. People have forgotten what the world (not only the infamous A.H.) has been trying to do with the jews. Extermination is the word of the game. Just for your information, I am not a jew but I have good friends who are.

22:37 September 1, 2011 by AbangBeruang

"It should be clear to him/her that Palestinians are the victims of this conflict, not the aggressors." Give me a break or study a little bit more the origins of the situation in Middle East. I can assure you that you will wind up with your eyes wide opened.
08:50 September 2, 2011 by johan rebel
The Palestians collectively hold one single world record: ruining their own future.

They also deserve brownie points for keeping the whinging and whining up for over 50 years.

What a bunch of total losers!
09:01 September 2, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
The Palestinians. Who are they? Losers? Whiners? Snipers? Who are they? Perhaps God knows, well, just perhaps.
09:08 September 2, 2011 by RobinHood
The Social Democrats were in power for decades during the Palestinian crisis. Why wait until they are in opposition and then pressure the sitting governemnt to do what they didn't?
09:19 September 2, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
Because they are like the Palestinians: Losers, whiners, snipers. Just ask Urban Ahlin.
09:22 September 2, 2011 by zircon
Global Partnership is something one should earn.
09:24 September 2, 2011 by RobinHood
Please do not comment on my posts J.L Belmar.
09:59 September 2, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
09:24 September 2, 2011 by RobinHood

Please do not comment on my posts J.L Belmar.

Don't worry. As of now you are invisible in spite of the fact that you have good comments. Some people's children!

And now a beauty: The Swedish Ministry for Foreign Affairs just announced that Sweden to contribute SEK 40 million to the Palestinian Authority.
10:31 September 2, 2011 by cowboykodp
The problem are the extremists on both sides.

As evident by the above comments.

The sad truth is that there will be an all out war soon, if a solution is not found.
11:20 September 2, 2011 by motti
The Arab westbank settlers are there because they infiltrated the British mandate which they called Palestine. They were encouraged by the British (unlike the Jews who were forcibly kept outb by the British) onlt because the Jews were there who offered them work. - Fact.

Second fact. The so called more moderate Abbas has said they will never recognise the Jewish state of Israel and no Jews will be allowed in "Palestine." There are many other Arab/Moslem countries that deny Jewish people into their territory to live or visit.

Third fact. The "Palestinians" (unusual title for a British colonial term) have rceived $billions over the last 40 years. Where has it gone and what has it achieved?

Fourth fact. tens, if not hundreds of millions became refugees after the second world war (including over 950,000 Jews from the Arab/Moslem countries where they had resided for thousands of years. Yes even pre 2000 years ago. Why do the so called Palestinians remain as "Refugees."

Fifth fact. so called Arab refugees are the result of invading Arab armies who tried to crush the newly created tiny Jewish state at birth. Told to leave by their invading cousins so all the Jews would be massacred or thrown into the sea.

Sixth fact. any Arab was/is able to present him/herself at a UN refugee camp Red Cross and Oxfam admit this) and claim they are homeless. They are then cared for by western tax payers so they can eat,drink, have a dozen children and not need to work (we do instead).

Seventh fact. the west are seen as suckers due to our ongoing stupidity in providing these people with a living and many cases with luxuries such as grand shopping malls, water parks etc.. Not a bad life really, is it?
11:31 September 2, 2011 by cowboykodp

Some of your points are SEMI valid.

'Not a bad life really, is it?"

May I suggest you change life with these LUCKY Palestinians for a month? Then and only then can you claim that their life is not bad.

As for where all the money goes... I suggest checking the high end real estate properties in France and England. Do you think the average Palestinian sees any benefit from these "donations"?

I for one am sick and tired of both Israelis and Palestinians. Time for both sides to grow some B-lls.
13:14 September 2, 2011 by si
Palestinians hate Jews / Jews hate Palestinians, all talk and no resolution, - same old / same old (yawn)
13:15 September 2, 2011 by guliver

Our state is not a terrorist state, a terrorist is the one who send rockets to my city Beer Sheva and kill my neighbours,a terrorist is the one who attack a tourists bus in its way to Eilat and kill the passengers and the driver and then shot on 2 private cars kill an eldery couple on their way to vacation,or driving with a taxi or a truck in the streets of Tel Aviv hiting the passenger,or shoting a anti tank missle on yello bus carring school children killing a child ,or entering an house in kibbutz were a entire familly sleep killing the 3 children and the mother.so maybee you are used to the fact that the Jewish blood is free,it was so till 1945,but since then no more!

Beer Sheva Israel
14:04 September 2, 2011 by J. L. Belmar

Mate, you are talking to many walls that do not know the difference between men and women unless they are naked in the same room and maybe not even so. Many and I mean many, do not understand that problems in the Middle East are and have been the never ending story. They do not dig what it is to live under the threat of rockets falling day and night, launched by the pacifists on the other side of your country.

11:31 September 2, 2011 by cowboykodp

Motti's facts are not SEMI-VALID. You might seem to be SEMI-INVALID.

What he wrote is history. What you wrote is… well… you know what I mean, but I do want Ricky Tricky to delete my comment or accuse me to T.L. just to prove how good of a spy is he.
14:49 September 2, 2011 by goth
The Palestine, Israel conflict is this simple. If you move into my home, and kick me out, I will retaliate and nobody will think that is crazy. In the same way, apartheid Israel continues to occupy Palestinian land, and make life as difficult as possible for Palestinians. Of course they will retaliate. It does not make the retaliation right, but should they just sit around until they get swallowed up by apartheid israel completely? Clearly the world is not doing much to assist them enough.
14:54 September 2, 2011 by guliver

15:29 September 2, 2011 by Uncle
Oh, God how I hate to assist and pump this forum with comments and draw all the scum here.

Anyways, had to react to the following:

"In the same way, apartheid Israel continues to occupy Palestinian land, and make life as difficult as possible for Palestinians"

Apartheid, meaning - apart, right? As far as the truth goes, 1 million arabs live in Israel with the same legal rights. They actually dread the moment a discussion of "settlements in exchange for arab villages" will start. The will to join their "brothers" is a bit limited.

As for a apartheid. Palestinians are the ones declaring their land's goal clearing out Jews. Not one Jew in Palestine and not one Jew in the entire area within the next 20 years. They attack JEWS abroad. They teach Gebbels teachings about JEWS. Not Israelis. Not zionists. JEWS. They declared even a jewish baby as a valid enemy. Officially. Even the "moderate" ones.

If the conflict would be simple, the european and american mediators would not be kicked out by Hamas, like it happened not 2 months ago. If it would be simple, it would be solved by any of the socialist governments of Israel who kissed Arafat a french kiss Brezhnev style.

And btw, for a bit of education. The lands are occupied from Egypt and Jordan, who were offered them back few times. Beyond that, everything is inventions and new ambitions.

It is like Kaliningrad would like independence from Russia. If anything, it should go to Germany. Independence is irrelevant as a discussion.
16:01 September 2, 2011 by guliver

we evacuated all settlements from Sinai for peace with Eygpt,

We evacuated all our settlers and army from Gaza strip up to our international border.What did we get? more missles and terror attacks from Gaza strip-why? because Hamas does not recognize our right to exsist.

And one more question: the west bank and Gaza were in Arab hands from 1948 till 1967-why then the Palestinians didn't build their own state on that time?Answer: because the issue was not a Palestinian state near a Jewish state the issue was first eliminate Israel,

does Israel now agree to 2 states solution?yes we do but with the conditions of mutal recognition of the Jewish state by all Palestinians and Arabs,border agreements which will be to define by two sides one time for ever and a true peace relations.
16:26 September 2, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
14:49 September 2, 2011 by goth

14:49 September 2, 2011 by goth

14:49 September 2, 2011 by goth

It is time for you to throw the towel into the ring before it is too late and you finish with a serious brain damage. Your comments look like written by the master Ricky the Dirty Tricky, the spy of the Local, responsible of judging which comments to delete.

If you do not know the history of the Middle East, learn it before commenting on something related to Palestine and Israel.

You are "kaputt". Do not try again to teach religion to the Pope.
00:08 September 3, 2011 by Aigulle Delaz
Though I'm a Christian and quite well versed in the Biblical scripture whereby Israel draws its claims to exist, I would like to post a link on here to state why 'Israel' as it is today is a 'pretender' of dangerous proportions to the actual 'Israel' and therefrom, also describe why to a large extent, that Israel should not exist whether it is a better alternative than the Muslim dominated Palestinian Authority. http://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/2009/07/why-israel-is-not-israel.html . Any criticism welcome.
01:07 September 3, 2011 by Uncle
"Any criticism welcome."

Let me accept the invitation.

The refusal of the state of Israel for biblical reasons is ridiculous.

The fact is that arabs lived there much later than Jews. Much easier to argue this land belonging to the Jews than to the "visiting" arabs. I would agree if someone said that it is actually the people of Canaan that should get the land after they were burned, gased, pogromed and cut to pieces everywhere else in the world. But luckily for the Jews, Canaan are not present at the argument table.

Also, the assumptions in this blog are coming out from a simplistic view that the words of God are to be accepted literally (like the muslims do). So if God said "kingdom" (as translated from Hebrew and as I checked, could mean also "ruling body"), there must be a king. Without a king it is a no-go. Are you joking?

Also "wrong borders" issue... So if "Israel is not big enough, it should not exist". How is it even an argument?

The existence of Israel came from 2000 years of hatred seeded by the romans and continued through the christians.

It came from the gas chambers. It came from the oppression and defencelessness.

It was the most obvious place both historically (there was a large Jewish population there at ALL times) and logically (settlers purchased lands in this turkish territory already in the 19th century). 100% of the "two state" solution were bought or traded for. Never conquered. The UN decision for an existence of the Jewish state never came from a bible perspective.

This geographical balance was destroyed when 7 armies attacked Israel because they did not accept the mere existence of it. What can one do that it was so successful against these soviet backed hordes?

Israel exists to DEFEND JEWS from christians, muslims, communists, gypsies, druze, african alligators, monsters in the closet, tornadoes, icebergs, falling antennas, poisoned food, syphilis, tzunamis, or whatever other danger may be for the Jewish people.

Jews - not the religion, but the nation. The Jewish DNA. The Jewish culture. The Jewish brains. Music. Art. Sports...

You know why Aigulle Delaz? You know why? I will tell you why.

Because "christians, who are well versed in Biblical scripture" did an awful, are doing a dreadful and are planning to do a horrible job in defending the Jews. THAT IS WHY!

01:27 September 3, 2011 by Citoyen Philippe
In 1917 the British took the Middle East from the Ottoman Empire.France and Britain shared the region and created a lot of countries: the Jews reclaimed their homeland: the Palestine which was named so by the Romans.

Later the British took a part of Palestine for creating the Trans Jordan.

In 1948 the Arab Legion destroyed the jewish quarter in Jerusalem including the greatest synagogue. And Jews were impeded to pray in front of the Wailing Wall. id Swe'den protested ? No, of course !

It is a fact that Luther was against the Jews: this fact could explain the anti Isra

There is a very strong anti Israeli and bnti semitic feeling in Europe.

Europe congraluted Germany for the unification of Berlin. The same Europe, now, wants to divide Jerusalem.

One think is sure! ISRAEL will survive !

Two thousand years of suffering ! And Europe does not change !

It's also a shame for SWEDEN !

nd rlin.

One time we speak about
02:15 September 3, 2011 by Aigulle Delaz
Ok, first rebuttal at Uncle is this, I cannot actually go further on because you say "The refusal of the state of Israel for biblical reasons is ridiculous.". Israel's WHOLE Existence is based on a Biblical premise/s. The argument the holocaust is a straw man argument because using such deduction would see Africa near enough ethnically cleansed of all non-bantu speaking people and ethnicity, The Americas cleansed of their now thoroughly mixed (Creole) population in the south and central and in The North of all Non- Aboriginal Amerindians who were treated to a holocaust that was not so systematic but as wanton, it was just as bad. Until you can give me 'why thE biblical' notion is nonsense, then we cannot go further; I'm not trying to run out of this but Israel's whole legitimacy is Biblical and in no way should be related emotionally to the Holocaust, though it is quite sadly. Also at Citoyen Phillipe, what you fail to mention bout the destruction of the Great Synagogue is the fact it was been used as a hideout by the Haganah, a paramilitary organisation that had been SLAUGHTERING, Arabs out of their quarters in the run up to the British pull out alongside the Irgun which is akin to The NSDAP in its early years in ascent to power (Many Jews brought over tips and techniques of the Nazi's). I suggest that if you can, that you watch a Channel 4 programme (UK) not broadcasted too long ago called The Promise; a balance approach and look at how Israel was born and how the 'Arabs' suffered dearly. I would also like to remind both of you that the Palestinian 'Arabs' are not full arabs and many of them are of Caananite as well as 'Philistine' lineage hence the reason the adjective 'Palestinian' is used derived from the ultimately from the Hebrew Pəléshseth but first recorded in Ancient Egyptian sources during the name of Rameeses III.
08:24 September 3, 2011 by guliver
Aigule Delaz.

The synagogue in the Jewish Quartier was used only to pray and not as a bunker.

The Hagana in compare with Ezel and Lehi was totally against fighting the arabs in their villages but just defending the Israeli villages.

that is true that Ezel and lehi attacked and killed arabs as it is also true that they were small groups not supported by most of the Jewish sociaty who support the Hagana and Ben Gurion.

The arabs invaded Palestine in 1300 circa with Saleh Adin,

The people you mention: Phelistine,Evusim,Edomim,Ashorim were all Kenananim it means old people who lived on this land before 3000 years ,their culture is well known ,investigated by the Hebrew university of Jerusalem and many archeologists,they belived in many God ,the Philisten lived along the sea shore and were fishermen they had a huge temple in Ashdod called Dagon.

All this people disapeared from the region exactly as old Eygptian were totally different people from the arabs who is living now in Eygpt.

Therefore the Palestinians are arabs who invaded this region in 1300 with the great muslem invasion,Do they have the right to live here and to have their own state? yes of course but in peace with Israel
09:21 September 3, 2011 by Uncle
"Israel's WHOLE Existence is based on a Biblical premise/s"

No it is not. It is mentioned in the declaration of independence as a reminder that Jews built their identity, religion and culture in this place.

"Impelled by this historic and traditional attachment, Jews strove in every successive generation to re-establish themselves in their ancient homeland. In recent decades they returned in their masses." Not a word about "God promised us this land, so we take it".

Another part tells the reason for timing for the decision:

"The catastrophe which recently befell the Jewish people-the massacre of millions of Jews in Europe-was another clear demonstration of the urgency of solving the problem of its homelessness by re-establishing in Israel the Jewish State,"

Resolution 181 of the UN admits the logical and historical connection of the Jews to that land. Not a word about God promising stuff.

And yeah, I heard the famous genealogist Arafat claiming belonging to Canaans. Guliver provided totally correct answer to that.

I have also heard an excellent argument that once Judaism was missionary and therefore, the modern Jews are actually genetically ancient arabs who were convinced to convert all over the Middle East and Northern Africa, whereas the modern palestinians, are genetic Jews who were not deported after the great uprising and converted into islam by the invading arabs. Not substantiated (and easily rebuffed, just by looking at DNA comparison), but interesting.
16:58 September 3, 2011 by d'Artagnan
wonderful debate on a very imortant issue: the recognition of Palestine as a state in fact of the proven facts that they want to be recognized to destroy Israel with the support of Sweden.
19:05 September 3, 2011 by motti
To belmar and uncle, it is nice to read your valid truthful comments and they need no help from me.

I want to remind the other anti israel posters that the local language was actually Aramaic. Jews spoke Aramaic along with the non Jews as well as Hebrew. Some spoke Greek,too. Arabic only became the main language in the near east and north africe, after the Islamic assault on the known world.

I suggest that Delaz should start to read historical documents prior to his misinformation. His Jew hating paranoia is quite evident. Read, absorb, understand and try to learn facts. You will not learn from the news media or sites in which people such as you spoiut nonsense. The Christian churches have much to be ashamed of. Israel did not become a state because of the holocaust, rather, in spite of it.

Over 900,000 Jewish refugees from Islamic countries. Tens, if not hundreds of millions of real refugees after World War II. £Billions of tax payers aid for over 40 years to "Palestinians." where has it gone, what has

it achieved?

Palestine is a gigantic myth spawned by the paedophilib murdere Arafat as a marketing ploy. The local Arabs were classified as Syrian and speak a Syriac form of Arabic. no different dialect between them and other Arab settlers in the region
23:21 September 3, 2011 by Uncle
"Palestinian 'Arabs' are not full arabs and many of them are of Caananite as well as 'Philistine' lineage hence the reason the adjective 'Palestinian' is used derived from the ultimately from the Hebrew "

Some more comments for the "versed in Bible". "Palestinian" is derived from Hebrew "Plishtim", or "invaders" from Cyprus. They were defeated by Ramses III (who called them "the sea people") and allowed to live in Southern Canaan. They are believed to speak Indo-European language (Probably a very distorted Greek). They were absorbed by the Babylon and Persia in 5BC.

500 years later, when the relatively small Jewish uprising wiped out a full legion and drew 50% of the Roman army to the region, by that almost causing the empire to lose the entire Eastern european lands and England, Romans became a bit upset.

The area of Judea was called for the name of Jewish historical arch-enemy. If China was to conquer India, the worst that they could do, is to call the new region "Pakistan". Get the comparison?

There are no palestinian arabs. Nothing unites them genetically. They are a mixed bunch from different scavengers who came to feed on the mortally wounded body of Judea and were wiped out and refreshed through the Mameluke, Christian and Turkish rule.

Another proof that even the religious in Israel do not connect biblical reincarnation of Israel to the state of Israel, is that there is no Messiah that I heard of announced (a prerequisite for the biblical return of Jews) and no budget is assigned for the building of the 3rd temple. (Also a result of the divine hand, as the well versed person in Bible should know).
09:35 September 4, 2011 by Iraniboy
Based on wikileacks, Mahmoud Abbas offered to Israel to give up most of Palestine to recognise Palestine but Israel rejected. What peace? What should Israel do to prove they don't want peace they just want the entire Palestine as it has been so for the last 50 years!
10:57 September 4, 2011 by motti
Iraniboy, it was the opposite in fact. Barak offered almost the whole of the territories to the PA. The response was jihad. your friends are nothing more than a bunch of murderous losers.

Abba has confirmed that the PA will never recognise a Jewish state of Israel and that his country of 2Palestine" will not allow Jews to live there. This is in line with most Islamic states, including your neighbour Pakistan. To be fai though, even thoughmany behind the Arab spring are backed by the Moslem Brotherhood, Libyan rebel leaders have asked Libyan Jewish refugees (those who survived the anti Jewish pogroms) to return and help build the country up again. what do you thinlk of that?

By the way, I'm still waiting for you to confirm the Islamic world map centred on Mecca and it's varying shades of green to denote Islamic habitation.

Today, I am off to Israel for a wonderful holiday and will take in mt most favourite place on earth. The Dead Sea,
13:08 September 4, 2011 by Uncle

Are you like 3 y o? Don't you think that you will be required to provide proof? According to Wikileaks? Which document?

When did Abbas agree to give up on the "return right" of the 6 million so called palestinians to the territory of Israel (which used to be 10% of this when your muslim brothers decided on the Final solution in 1948)? When did he guarantee peace in exchange for independence? When?

Israels offers to Egypt and Jordan to take back this pile of feces and the respective countries utter refusal shows that Israel wants to get rid of this Bulldog hanging on Israels neck and sucking on taxes, water, electricity, while producing nothing, but terror and Nazi education. Gaza is independent DE FACTO. What happened there? You heard the news? HUNDREDS of missiles in the last year only. Targeting CIVILIANS ONLY.

actually Wikileaks leaked enormous bag of documents that show muslim countries behaviour in not favourable light, as well as the mentioned above Baraks offer to bend over and give palestinians everything, inlcuding East Jerusalem (much to the local arabs horror) and exchange the same amount of territories of settlements for arab villages inside Israel (that also are a huge tax sucking canalization drain). Your motherland will never allow Hamas to agree to peace, since the ultimate muslim goal is the final solution against the knife in the back of muslims in form of Israel. It already threatened to withdraw funds if Hamas will start a discussion of eternal peace.
14:00 September 4, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
19:05 September 3, 2011 by motti

"Palestine is a gigantic myth spawned by the paedophilib murdere Arafat as a marketing ploy."

You should ad that he got a Nobel Prize for having created the gigantic myth and that with the money that was granted by the Norwegian Nobel Foundation,with the blessings of the Nobel Foundation in Sweden, he kept on buying arms to attack Israel. And that is a fact not what iranitoy, somegulpelaz and others have written by twistin history to their convenience.

And Uncle and guliver. How many more pearls have you in your arsenal to keep on throwing them to swines? Just wondering.

And you, Uncle and
18:43 September 4, 2011 by Uncle
You right Belmar. No point to try and convince THEM. But it is good to say stuff, so they could not convince OTHERS who are reading their stuff.
21:35 September 4, 2011 by Aigulle Delaz
OK time for a come back. 1st Guliver, The Jewish Quarter like every other quarter was used for concealment and fighting when the British were pulling out. I suggest you read this http://www.sixdaywar.org/content/Jerusalem1948arabisraeliwar.asp which gives a highly detailed account of what happened within the Jewish Quarter. Apart from that, I'm in complete agreement with you Guliver for as is well known, the Arabs are relative newbies in the area but because of their tendencies (butchering and submission) they but wiped clean the last remnants of Philistine/Caanan culture cum people.

@Uncle however, I'm sorry but Israel is a BIBLICAL conception, its premise is based firstly in THE BIBLE, not in the UN, not in zionism's distorted view of Judaism but in THE BIBLE and to be specific, The Old Testament specifically lays down qualifiers for when the coming of 'Israel' will come. What has to be remembered is 'Israel' was never suppose to be thought of as a 'nation-state' but as a 'nation' of people related or under the leadership of 'Israel' other name Jacob. Thus the claims for Israel being legitimate are highly whimsical and this is verified by many Orthodox Jews who know the Torah inside out!

2. you cite UN Resolutions ok. That is all well and good but that is all they were RESOLUTIONS, which did not have the full force of international law as these were given by the General Assembly, not the Security Council. also Secular law in Judaism does not take precedent over Talmudic law thus your argument falls down completely as Israel was 'supposedly' to come about again with a 'messiah ' bringing forth that 'kingdom'. That did not happen but what did happen is a disaster was used as a pretext to illegally cleanse people and then dump people in an area who's lineage and forefathers had never SEEN, TOUCHED, NOR SMELT the Holy Land. These Jews are mainly Ashkenazi who's descendecy is said not to stem from Jewish ancestors of Babylonian exile but from a people based in the Caspian sea area called Khazars. converted en masse to Judaism in the 9th century.The link to a man who has studied this in-depth is here http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-diaspora.html . An example however for now, is the fact that the language of the people around that area at that time was not 'Hebrew' as today's modern Hebrew but was Aramiac and 'Talmudic Hebrew'. Thus Israel's claims are already flimsy and flimsier by the minute.

4- Arafat did claim his descendency from Caananites and it is a possibility. What you have to remember is that Jewish people generally cannot marry outside their faith. Thus the racial admixture of Caananite, philistines cum Arabs is very plausible.
23:20 September 4, 2011 by Uncle
I am sorry, but what are you banging on? (and btw, your use of quotes is weird as hell)

If there is a creation of Israel in Bible, it does not mean in any way that the creation of Israel was BECAUSE of Bible. Alexander the Great was also mentioned in the Bible. Is this the ONLY source of evidence that Alexander existed?

It is not a biblical conception, but was actually driven by socialists. Atheist polaks and russians came in the beginning of the 20th century as pioneers to dry the swamps. Who, oh who cleansed the locals? Actually the "pogroms" that were made in order to cleanse palestine, were done by arabs.

WHO oh, who dumped people anywhere, when people were running there from the russian and ukranian executioners and also FORCED out by the arabs? Arab lands cleansed out 1 MILLION Jews in 1948-1952.

It is recorded and btw admitted by the Bahrain foreign minister not a year a go, who proposed to return all the belongings to jews and invite them back in order to empty Israel for the ease of conquest.

There are 1 million and a half arabs out of 7 million citizens of Israel (some cleansing). There are 0 Jews in Palestine authority (only fortified settlers who are guarded by battalions and are within Israels authority). Palestinians want to have 0 Jews in their land. And within 20 years 0 Jews in the entire area. WHO wants to cleanse? OFFICIALLY. PHYSICALLY.

Anti-Semitic german ideology is officially taught in arab schools. It is propagated for children that there is no higher blessing that to kill a Jew.

Eh... I am tired of this ridiculous argument. Go and try your arguments for the attack on arabs who burn and melt Kurds in thousands in the forum nearby.
11:43 September 5, 2011 by J. L. Belmar
23:20 September 4, 2011 by Uncle

If Algulle Delaz says that "Arafat did claim his descendency from Caananites and it is a possibility." You have to believe him, because Arafat did also claim he was a pacifist, got his Nobel Peace Prize and after that he kept on murdering Jews.

In other words, what Delaz says is the truth and nothing but the truth, so help us God.

Got it?
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