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Muslim man kicked off train for praying

The Local/rm · 3 Nov 2011, 17:33

Published: 03 Nov 2011 17:33 GMT+01:00

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On his daily commute to Flen from his work in the capital, the 35-year-old man needed to carry out some of his daily prayers.

In order not to disturb fellow passengers, he made his way to a calm and secluded compartment – something he had done several times before.

”I started to pray but then the conductor arrived and shoved me three times in the back almost causing me to topple over. Then she said 'Show me the ticket! Hey!',” the man told news site Nyheter24.

The man refused to show his monthly rail pass to the female conductor as he felt he couldn't interrupt his prayers once he had started.

However, as soon as he was finished he thought it appropriate to go look for her and show his ticket.

”I went looking for her and showed her my pass. Instead of looking at it she said I should have shown it to her when she came by earlier,” he said.

The man was told he would have to get off the train at the next stop.

”She was ice cold. I feel demeaned and discriminated against,” he told Nyheter24.

The man, who prays five times a day, tried to explain himself and said that he had never had any problems praying on the train before.

”We have the right to kick you off the train and if you don't comply we will telephone the police,” the conductor allegedly answered him.

The man, who didn't have anywhere to sleep that night if he didn't get home, refused to leave the train, according to the news site.

The staff on board then decided to call the police and officers were waiting for the train at the following station.

The police told him, after a short interview, that he was under suspicion for threatening behaviour.

As the conductor would not let him back on the train, the man managed to get back to Stockholm.

Story continues below…

To avoid having to roam the streets of the capital, he made his way to a mosque in Akalla, where he spent the night.

The man later contacted the train services customer service department where they agreed that it was not acceptable and sent him a voucher worth 1,000 kronor ($152).

But to the 35-year-old it is not about money but getting satisfaction.

According to Nyheter24, the incident has been reported to the Swedish Equality Ombudsman (Diskrimineringsombudsmannen, DO).

The Local/rm (news@thelocal.se)

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Your comments about this article

18:05 November 3, 2011 by karex
Ouch Local, BAD HEADLINE. He didn't get kicked out because he was praying did he?

The fact that the man is Muslim has nothing to do with the story really. It all boils down to too many people around here are rude, selfish and even aggressive. Bad upbringing, never learned their manners.

This never would have happened in Japan. They know what the terms "polite" and "considerate of others mean".
18:22 November 3, 2011 by Just_Kidding
Conductor was a "train nazi" stuck in a boring job!

Atheisit Iranian
18:27 November 3, 2011 by Opinionfool
How could he be deep in prayer? As the train moved so his geo-position relative to Mecca would have changed and he would therefore need to adjust his orientation every few seconds. (Unless the track were oriented to the same line of longitude as Mecca, which is isn't there are 20degrees of longitude between them.)

Sometime ago, I used to fly out of London's Gatwick on Virgin Airlines. On transatlantic flights they gave all passengers a sticker saying "walk me for meals". This man could have adopted a similar trick by putting his ticket on display for the train conductor to check. A little fore-thought on his part and the problem would never have arisen in the first place. He had enough fore-thought to find an empty compartment in which to pray, if he had used just a little more then he could have organised the display of his ticket.
18:32 November 3, 2011 by Migga
Religion has no place in the public space.
18:34 November 3, 2011 by Opinionfool
Oops, I should have type "wake me for meals." I was trying not to put a different Spoonerism there.
18:41 November 3, 2011 by Englishted
What would he do if the train was full ?
18:42 November 3, 2011 by Svensksmith

Exactly. He was not kicked off for praying. He was kicked off for not displaying his ticket. But I guess "Man Kicked Off Train for Not Displaying Ticket" would have been a boring title.

The sad thing is that this dude will probably sue the railroad and get a bunch of money...
18:58 November 3, 2011 by axiom
Both people could have been more considerate.

Couldn't he have shown it before he prayed?

And couldn't she have been a bit more understanding, he DID show it before he was kick off, so the argument that he didn't show his ticket is null.

Next time, he should do a little pre-planning, people will try and accommodate your religious freedoms as much as possible but you have to meet them halfway.
19:12 November 3, 2011 by Just_Kidding

Next time he should hang his permit from his neck :)
19:21 November 3, 2011 by Slash
Politics by The Local...

There are more serious issues to be published in a National Daily..
19:25 November 3, 2011 by Abe L
Hard to really judge. Train conductors in Sweden are beyond rude and just miserable people. It seems nothing is out of reason as long as they get to inspect your ticket, including disturbing phone calls or waking you up if you're asleep. A big reason to stop commuting by train and use the car instead if you can't sleep on the train.

The problem is that even though I don't approve of his actions, the man in question did have a valid subscription and it is not within reason that he was removed from the train. Being unable to show your ticket on the spot isn't a reason to be removed, instead the conductor could have come back, as they seem to patrol regularly.

I don't approve of the fact that the police actually shows up to remove people from trains, simply because when YOU as an individual need them they are never there. This really can't be on their priority over assisting in real problems.

I also don't approve of SJ giving him a voucher, but I can see why it happened.

In general I believe the financial compensation in case someone was truly treated in an unjustifiable reason should be much much higher. A million crowns should be the absolute minimum, in order for a company to real feel the impact of one of their employees making a wrong misstep.
19:26 November 3, 2011 by Garry Jones
What where the reasons for the train conducter not accepting the man showing the ticket later? Could it be that some people share a ticket so when the conducter comes alone one pretends to be praying and then he can use he mate's ticket when he has finished praying. Seems to me he should have just taken a time out and then gone back to praying. Maybe thats not in his religion but then again would the authorities in his country let me have a pint in a local pub if I said it was in MY religion?
19:43 November 3, 2011 by Douglas Garner
@Migga #4 - for you to suggest that religion should only be practiced in private is to suggest that we deny ALL religious behavious. Would you suggest that it is wrong to help others as an act of faith? Is it wrong to express an opinion on the meaning or purpose of life... in public? For a religious person, living is a religious act... that cannot be denied!
19:44 November 3, 2011 by MaxTron
I think it's completely fall of this guy!

He was busy with something and couldn't show the ticket? What? Prayer?

He is in Sweden now! Is the prayer here more important then the rules? he Must show the ticket even if he deep on prayer or playing some games on his laptop.

Ok. Next time I will eat something in train and if conductor come I'm gonna say: Wait, I'm busy. I will show you my ticket after lunch! I can't show you now, 'coz my mouth is full and my hands as well."

Creapy logic...
19:49 November 3, 2011 by philster61
Maybe he was praying that he doesn't get kicked off the train for praying.....
19:52 November 3, 2011 by tgolan
in any case why get off, let her call the police but he should inform here that his wife is an lawyer and he will sue her as she did push him and file charges for assault, that would give the conductor some thing to yhink about, I never get off when challenged if i have a valid ticket . people have to learn to stand up for their rights
20:22 November 3, 2011 by occassional
What next? A special compartment for ablutions? Shoe racks? Prayer calls on the PA? A tiny minaret with tunnel clearance on the prayer car ? No on board service during Ramadan? Free rail pass during Hajj? Complimentary vouchers for the sheer inconvenience of having to show the ticket when asked so to do? Come on!
20:22 November 3, 2011 by Iraniboy
SJ is absolutely responsible. First off she hasn't said something racist so it cannot be classified as that but she has denied his rights and comfort. I don't want to speculate more on her motives since I haven't heard what she has said but I can guess that she has never been told that a Muslim praying cannot talk or do something else for those some minutes.

I believe he should be compensated for the time he has missed and the discomfort he has suffered for this incidence and SJ should teach their staff about all possible incidents.
20:31 November 3, 2011 by Migga
@ Douglas Garner #13

Helping others isn`t a religious behaviour, it`s a human behaviour. Also yes, religion should be practized in private. Feel free to say what you want in public but when you start praying or take some other action it`s not longer freedom of speech.
20:50 November 3, 2011 by MaxTron

What is the different between praying and having food onboard when conductor ask you for ticket?

There is no different at all ! Once she ask you -- you have to show your ticket even if you singing or dancing or praying or eating, playing games or even taking a crap onboard.

This guy thought he do something that more important then the rules. Its didn't work.
20:50 November 3, 2011 by Douglas Garner
@migga... while I will agree that many humans do help others, but for many it is a major component of their religion. If a person closes their eyes for a moment of silent praryer, I suspect you would have no problem with it, but it seems a problem when you DO notice it! Do you find it offensive when another prays and you can tell, or does it make you feel another emotion such as jealousy, fear, or guilt? Perhaps you just don't understand that some individuals have an extreme commitment to their personal religion.

Some pray in public when necessary, others wear undergarments with special religions significance, others cover their heads (and not just muslims). Personally, I find respect for persons who live in accordance with their commitments. At least they are hypocrits, unless they live outwardly for show and a different life in private!

I hope, Migga, that you can learn to be more accepting of others who are conducting themselves peacefully and in accordance with their beliefs. I suspect they would allow you to do the same:)
20:53 November 3, 2011 by Online Personality
TL wrote, "The man, who is required to pray five times a day..."

WHO requires the man to pray five times a day???? The man CHOOSES to pray five times a day.

Re. #18, "A muslim praying CANNOT talk or do something else for those some minutes." A muslim praying CHOOSES not to talk or do something else for those some minutes.

At any given moment, we all have things we want to do, but as adults, we choose and schedule appropriate times for specific activities.
20:53 November 3, 2011 by AbbaLeo
Bad customer service from SJ staff,

what usually happens in SJ's normal scenario if person is in the toilet? do they wait for them or ask for police help at next destination! ?
21:02 November 3, 2011 by Dr. Dillner
Don't make a Muslim mad or you might find yourself with your head chopped off or blown up by a bomb!! At least, reading the world news might expect this!!
21:05 November 3, 2011 by MaxTron
@AbbaLeo #23

Great idea! Thats why we call it Private Room.

If you want to do something -- go to toil... Private Room and do it there. Why they should do it on public? Is it provocation?

If I do it on public then conductor could ask me for ticket. And since I am clever men, I know it and try to adopt for situation.
21:11 November 3, 2011 by Iraniboy

It may happen that a passenger cannot find their ticket on time so it takes some minutes before they can show it. It is not the end of the world if someone is checked with some delays. However SJ has to decide on this and they should have a guideline hoe much delay is allowed.

@Online Personality

Well one can say the same thing for going to the toilet. I can speak for myself. I don't go the to the toilet the last moment! I go a little earlier so in case it is necessary I can delay it. If I or someone else choose to go toilet earlier, can we kick him out of the train for bad timing of going to toilet?

I know what you are trying to say. You are trying to argue about the correctness of practicing religions etc. That hardly comes into context here. I won't argue over that with you.
21:28 November 3, 2011 by RobinHood
Nothing good is going to happen when two idiots are confined togethor in a small space such as a train.
22:06 November 3, 2011 by AnEye
Well I have no doubt that the lady was either discriminating or was having her PMS or has chosen to be rude for all her life. If he shows his ticket by himself later on, there is no ground for kicking him out.

I also understand that the lady must have felt humiliated when completely ignored by him assuming she did not know that he can not interrupt his prayers. But then its all about costumer service if any one knows what it means in Sweden.

Besides I wonder when he has the ticket what ground police had to remove him unless the lady feared that the guy is praying and after praying he is going to explode, so police plzzz take him off asap.
22:19 November 3, 2011 by StockholmSam
The conductor should not have kicked him off the train after he sought her out and showed her his ticket. Suppose she had asked for a ticket and a passenger could not find it. Then 15 minutes later the passenger found the ticket and took it to the conductor. Would the conductor have been in the right to demand the passenger get off the train? No, absolutely not. The passenger had a ticket that was paid for, he just did not have it at the exact time the conductor came around. It reminds me of the little African girl who spoke no Swedish and was kicked off the train because she had not ticket...turns out her sister had the ticket (on her phone, I think) but she was at the toilet when the conductor came around. Simply accepting the ticket and moving on would have been in everyone's interest. Now it has cost SJ money and goodwill. The conductor should have the 1000 kronor taken out of her pay.
22:41 November 3, 2011 by muscle
it has nothing to do with the guy being muslim. hmm dont know if it is the fault of sj or not. but i think if the guy know the ticket conductor will come soon, he could have kept the ticket with him on the side. so that ticket checker can check the ticket.

It is written on the back side of the tickets that you must show the ticket when asked. it's the guys fault that he didnt. Even his religion states that he should obey the rules.
22:50 November 3, 2011 by Bushyblondehead
Is their God's attention span so short that they can't stop praying to answer a question? Mine isn't.
22:56 November 3, 2011 by Online Personality
re #26, I'm not sure what is meant by "correctness of practicing religion"... I think prayer/meditation can be healthy, but I stand by choosing a time and place that works within the greater context...

Some time ago, I was on a train where a small child had some type of battery-operated toy gun that he "fired" over and over and over, infinity. I would much rather sit by/near a person in quiet prayer/meditation than the small terror who was behind me that day... That said, I would probably feel uncomfortable if the whole train car was praying, like I had gotten tricked into going to church, so to speak…

I don't know what to say about the conductor...haven't heard her take on things. Sounds like the whole scenario was basically a power struggle over competing compulsions… I must pray now! vs I must have the ticket now! And now here we all are writing about it… a panty-wad chain...
23:15 November 3, 2011 by rfmann
Hm. So what would happen if I responded to a train conductor that I could not show her my ticket just now, because I was having a dialog with that imaginary bunny right next to me which I could not interrupt? Would she be expected to respectfully walk away, and give me time to finish that conversation? What, actually, if it wasn't an imaginary being, but a real one, say on the phone? Would I be able to expect respect for an important (to me) phone call, or do special privileges only hold for imaginary beings, and only of they are accepted by sufficiently many people sharing in my delusion?

An inquiring mind wants to know!
23:31 November 3, 2011 by ctinej
What if my religion requires me to rob one bank a week. No Officers are allowed to ask for my gun or ID when I am in the process of performing my religious duties. Jeez!!!!! why do we put up with these Muslim IDIOTS. Superstition has no place in modern Europe!!! That goes for the Pope and his followers as well. The one who "kicked" him off should have done it "field goal" style and booted him back to Iran. Allowing idiocy to immigrate and proliferate uncontrollably is suicidal for the wonderful people of Scandinavia. I used to think they were smart. I'm having second thoughts, as I see the country and culture being over run, destroyed, and the Scandinavians being enslaved to cater to the ones who keep their shop towels on their heads. When in Roam, do as the Romans do. It made sense then and NOW.
00:14 November 4, 2011 by Migga
People shouldn`t help others because of their religion. They should help others to help themselves because they are in need. Not because some God tells them to.

That`s what religion does. It chains people. It paralyzes them. It victimize them. It turns them into submissive drones. Either by their God, their preacher, their community or their husband/father. All in the name of religion.

We will never have an open and tolerant world if religion exists.

And don`t worry about me accepting others, I do. However I don`t accept medival opressive, sexist and racist belifs which is disguided as religion.
00:55 November 4, 2011 by Bolinb
You are all missing the point. He was not kicked off the train for praying. The police said he was suspicion for threatening behaviour. Now this throws a whole different light on the story. Was he aggressive and refused to show his ticket? was she just being vengfull and making false accusations to the police? If he was ignoring her and she did in fact poke him in the back several times that amounts to assault by a rail employee. If he was rude and gave her a dirty look or said something then again.... Different light on the story. The only two people that will ever know are the two involved, that being said if the police spoke to him they should have had the knowledge and experience to make a judgment call and ask both parties to calm down and if they were satisfied that he was not aggressive he should have been allowed to finish his paid journey. If the conductor made a false statement to the police; the conductors job could/should be forfeit and possible charges could be laid for false statements to police........ So it seems there were more quetions created by this story but none answered.

Just my opinion.
01:32 November 4, 2011 by missjane30
The woman should not have put her hands on him, poking or otherwise. That was a lack of respect for the man's personal space. But he also had a lack of respect for her by not answering her when she requested his ticket. As the article states, he has traveled that way before, and he knows the rules, and should respect them. As a previous poster said "when in Rome". That is as true now, as it was then.

Really this whole thing sounds like a p*ssing contest gone wrong. Adults behaving like children on a playground fighting over a swing!
02:13 November 4, 2011 by here for the summer
The local has written a lie in the headline to get attention. Perhaps they could work for one of Murdoch as this is right up his alley. The man was not kicked off for praying or being Muslim he was kicked off for not showing a train ticket when asked. unless you show your ticket they have to assume you don't have one and kick you off the train. The local does have a choice about telling the truth in the article and the headline. I wish they would chose to tell the truth in both .
04:27 November 4, 2011 by jvtx3232
Obviously the man is at fault.

His prayers do not take precedence over the protocol of riding the trains in Sweden. He needs to learn the meaning of the old adage "when in Rome, do as the Romans do." He has no right to try to force his religious beliefs on the "Romans," and ask the "Romans" to alter THEIR behavior to accommodate the peculiarities of HIS religious beliefs when HE is in THEIR country!

You're in Sweden now, buddy. Do as the Swedes do and do it with a smile on your face. That is your only option.
05:38 November 4, 2011 by Swordgeek
Today it became clear to me that the Local.se has a considerable amount of xenophobic thinkers among its visitors.
07:20 November 4, 2011 by Grokh
this might not be because he is muslim and was praying but because he refused to show ticket , we dont know how he refused that story isnt told so he might have gotten some revenge for it and is hiding behind religion.

on other hand he is not more special than anyone else just because he needs to pray when he does he still has to follow the same rules and show the ticket when he is asked. sure he shouldnt have been mistreated but religion doesnt mean exceptions to not abide by rules.

otherwise there will be laws some people can break because of their religion and that is not equality , equality is everyone follows the same law despite their religion.

im not religious if i had gotten kicked out by a prick conductor because i refused to show ticket because lets say he woke me up then id still get kicked out and i wouldnt have religion to defend me and make me special.
07:39 November 4, 2011 by John.Smith
He was silly not to either inform the conductor before praying and/or not to have his ticket displayed on the table in front of him with a note saying 'Please do not interupt' or something similar.

She was doing her job, and to be honest if I were her and I asked a passenger to display their ticket and they ignored me (regardless of their activity, i.e. praying, reading etc) that would make me nervous and p*ssed off.

She over reacted with calling the police after he found her but I understand why she did what she did. He refused to show his ticket and thus caused a disruption on the train. His religion and race have nothing to do with the story.
07:53 November 4, 2011 by Rick Methven
Clearly the conductor acted beyond her authority as SJ paid the passenger 1,000kr compensation. If she had been in the right, SJ would never have paid out. I got nothing after a 4 hour delay in organising replacement transport caused me to miss a flight.
08:01 November 4, 2011 by Lavaux
I demand that the Swedish public schools teach my daughter that evolution is only a theoretical rather than true account of the origins of everything. Can I get a special dispensation for this demand? I also demand that the public schools teach her that happiness is not measured by the size of the welfare state or the number of vacation days per year. Can I get a special dispensation for this demand? Not bloody likely.

The public schools are going to teach my daughter what they teach everyone else, and then I'll have to reteach her. That's the price of living in Sweden, where things that stick out are hammered smooth. Why shouldn't Muslims pay the same price my family pays?
08:21 November 4, 2011 by Uncle
Ha, are you, people nuts? Read the story. It is based solely on his words and stinks of lies.

First of all, a "good" muslim (a division that was introduced by the followers of this ideology themselves) is in no way forbidden to interrupt his own prayers if started. So if for example he is blocking a path, he could stop praying and move if asked. If he is addressed to by an official/police/doctor/fireman, he is fully allowed to answer and return to prayers.

Furthermore, he WAS LEFT ALONE. The conductor left the guy alone to pray. Then according to this kompis words, he went to show the ticket to the conductor, but she would not look at it.

So if he, for example, DID NOT show the ticket, but just was engaging in "threatening behavior" (the real reason for offloading him, according to the police), the conductor cannot deny it, since she "did not look at it". I would really like to hear the conductor story, because apparently it is not only HER who called the police, but the train STAFF that did it (hint to more people who thought that this guest in Sweden is threatening).

Finally, if I am caught without ticket and wait until the conductor leaves, just in order to "arrange" a ticket quickly whether by phone, other conductor services or another kompis on the train and his ticket (not sure about such possibilities in theory), then they have the full right to kick me off even if the ticket "appeared".

It just drives me crazy how people read the headline and start writing their outcries about Swedish racism and the exemplary behavior of muslim representatives.
08:44 November 4, 2011 by Kaethar
Two (or more) people riding on the same ticket is a problem on trains which is why you must show your ticket when confronted. That this man refused to do so makes him highly suspicious. The woman no doubt thought he'd gone off to get a ticket off a friend - because logically why would someone refuse to show their ticket if they had one? Ignoring the ticket person because you're busy praying is not logical and that's the danger with many of these extremist muslims. They're digging their own graves, so to speak.
08:48 November 4, 2011 by senlac
It seems that this was normal practice for him. As he had had no problem before he quite rightly thought that it was OK.

I have to wonder though, what he would do if he was on a flight...
09:11 November 4, 2011 by johnny1939
Religious nonsense again!! It seems that some people use their religion to annoy. Surely God will forgive you interruptions of that nature. Show your bloody ticket when asked. The RR probably have enough of freeloaders so they have to be tough and not dilly dally w/ people who do not cooperate.
10:04 November 4, 2011 by blik
Once again the Local must be hard up for a good story.

By the way, why is there always a picture of two girls kissing in the Locals photo gallery?

Do they think their readers are thirteen-year-old boys fascinated by Lesbians?
11:01 November 4, 2011 by blursd
Actually, I think the commentary is more fun to read than the article ...
11:03 November 4, 2011 by Aquos
Let me start from a neutral point of view. This is not the 1st time that people complain of SJ's service and their employees ruthless behaviour.


If this proves to be true, I hope this won't end up like many Middle Eastern countries.

Here's a very repeated scenario in many Middle Eastern countries:

You go to a shop or an office and it's completely empty. What happened? All employees went to pray! They are away for an hour or so, and all you have to do is waiting and waiting. When they come back, you can't even argue with them! Why?! Because they were praying! And I don't need to go through the results of that very common scene.
11:04 November 4, 2011 by Dr. Dillner
@blursd, Yes, I agree . . . the banter does give me social insight into the state of humanity. Fascinating.
11:55 November 4, 2011 by salalah
He was just looking to get that voucher....
12:34 November 4, 2011 by Grokh
knowing how inflamable anything is in sweden towards muslims i wouldnt be surprised alot of muslims do wtv they want because they can play the minority + religion card and get away on top.
13:18 November 4, 2011 by Jes
Discrimination should be condemned at all levels . Even muslims must examine their own behaviours when they are dealing with non-muslims . As it is , muslims tend to hide behind their reliogion to discriminate or disrespect non-muslims .

I know of a muslim family that owns a retail shop in a strictly non-muslim residential area , yet they refuse to sell and meats from pigs . This shop claims to sell only "harari" meats. One must wonder if this is not a form of discrimination ; afterall , there is no law that forbids the consumption of pork , although there could be a law that regulates how animals should be slaughtered for food.

I recently attended a conference where the theme was " multiculturalism in Sweden" , The chief organizer was a muslim Arab man who works in the Kommun. I noticed that most of his co-organizers were Arab and somalia muslims . In one of the programmes of the day , someone was going to deliver a paper on " Religious tolerance Vs Islamphobia "

WHY ? is Islam the only religion that all immigrants in Sweden belong to ?

It just seemed to me that the people who arranged the conference were of the misconception that in Sweden , immigrant and Islam are the same things . The muslims who organized the conference may not see that what they did was a form of discrimination ( by exclusion) . They never made any effort to contact other immigrants who , for example , belong to the catholic faith or who are members of the Pingist ( Pentecostal ) church .

The muslim women wore their head gear , the men come with their fake smiles , shook hands with everybody and that was all that was needed to hold a successful "mulicultural " meeting ?

MUSLIMS must be told off : their religion does not own the right to dicriminate or exclude others . If we all lived by the virtue of "live and let live" no one would care if one man chose to pray in the middle of the motorway .
13:57 November 4, 2011 by Grokh
@Jes Agree with you , when people talk about immigrants in sweden all assume we are muslim from war torn countries.

The other day was United nations day and me and several other people went to talk to a bunch of 1st to 4th graders , i was the only one who wasnt arabic or asian. so basically i was the only person representing both an european country as well as a south american country.

It was nice to show kids how immigrants have in their home country and how different the culture is but isnt it imbalanced when out of the 8 people who spoke 5 were from the middle east , 2 from filipines and 1 brazilian/portuguese...

So now when people look at me as an immigrant they all assume i come from war or poor country or am religious.

in fact im in the bottom of the pit when it comes to minorities because not only i dont belong to the biggest minority in sweden aka muslims, but also i dont have a voice for my kind of minority and how we are treated as an immigrant.

The whole debate is hijacked by muslims and how no one accepts them when in fact muslims are the ones who tend to not accept anything other than their own,
14:11 November 4, 2011 by engagebrain
I hope he doesn't plan to become a driver.

It seems the both the passenger and the ticket inspector contributed to this mess.

Perhaps both could apologize
14:38 November 4, 2011 by folkuni
When you go to Rome, you behave like romans,so he has to respect the train rules
14:52 November 4, 2011 by Lavaux
The other week I got on a SJ train at Flemingsberg under the assumption that my SL card was good for the trip into T-Centralen. Not so, I found out from the conductor, who let me off the hook when he could have written me up. Not all of the SJ conductors are ogres, and what I've found is that if you treat them well, they'll do the same to you. Doesn't mean they'll invite you round for Christmas, however.
15:14 November 4, 2011 by Rick Methven
It says in the piece here

"The man later contacted the train services customer service department where they agreed that it was not acceptable and sent him a voucher worth 1,000 kronor"

So SJ MUST have thought that the conductor acted badly to pay anything.

Yet of course all the usual suspects are down on the guy for one reason and one reason only BECAUSE HE IS A MUSLIM.

If he had been a Christian, Jew or of any other persuasion, The idiot racist trolls on TL would have been screaming for the blood of SJ
15:19 November 4, 2011 by conboy
I agree Rick the Swedish constitution guarantees the right to worship in private and in public this thread reveals a äot of prejudiced and uneducated comment.
15:24 November 4, 2011 by Swedishmyth
It is interesting to note that only specifically mystic ideas are protected against the rules otherwise based on real-world facts. Bar medical emergency, any other reason not to show the ticket immediately would be dismissed, even if based on reason.

But so long as you deal in faith and not rationality, everything else has to yield. So much for Sweden's secularism, the supposed upside of its Leftist orientation.
15:25 November 4, 2011 by jvtx3232
"So SJ MUST have thought that the conductor acted badly to pay anything."

I fundamentally disagree with this analysis. The only thing it proves is that SJ felt that it wasn't worth the hassle, and so simply knuckled under to political correctness just to get the issue out of their hair.

A sad statement, they should have held their ground.

It was the full responsibility of the man praying to follow the protocol of riding the trains in Sweden first and foremost. Bottom line. The peculiarities of his religion do NOT take precedence over the rules of the rail.

It is most certainly NOT in any way the responsibility of the SJ employee to show deference or "sensitivity" to the peculiarities of the man's religion.

He's in Sweden now, must do as the Swedes do. And like LIKE IT.
15:48 November 4, 2011 by KarolinaS
When using public transportation one is OBLIGATED to show the ticket. No ticket, no travel. Punkt slut.

Time for some people to understand how the things work in civilized world!

**Excusez moi, ms conductor, but do not disturb me when I'm eating my everyday egg and caviar sandwich** Sorry, this is NOT how it works!
16:06 November 4, 2011 by jvtx3232
That is well said Karolina. I can't even begin to imagine the arrogant disrespectful mindset of anyone who refuses to show their ticket for any reason.

If you don't want to get kicked of the train, then produce your ticket when requested! Duh! COMMON SENSE!
16:21 November 4, 2011 by Jes
@Grokh , it so sad to watch .

What a shame that even the intelligentsia has caven in and substituted rationality with patronage

This is a pur case of religious arrogance winning over the freedom to reason .
16:51 November 4, 2011 by Chickybee
This article has generated a lot of debate but the way the article is written suggests an agenda, on that has obviously worked - reaction.

I would suggest that if one moves to a country one should be prepared or at least be openminded enough to accept that adjusting to that country's laws and customs is not unreasonable. There is nothing wrong with being religious but religion has its time and place. In Egypt women, regardless of faith, have to be covered - there is no choice.

It is regrettable that this man felt he was a 'victim' but then praying on a train is not the norm in Sweden. It would be sad that legal recourse would be sought by this gentleman for the actions of the lady who was simply doing her job. Not all the facts are known and it is quite easy to make Swedes out to be the villain in their own country.

After some considerable time spent in Egypt, I think that Swedes are very tolerant people re. immigrants and Muslims in particular - try going to Egypt and being a non-Muslim and you will really see how challenging life can be.
17:08 November 4, 2011 by Andrea77
SJ should attach a special "God" wagon to it's trains.
17:37 November 4, 2011 by jvtx3232
No, no special religious cars. No going out of the way to accommodate any religion or its peculiarities. It's a train, it's not a church (or a mosque or a synagogue or a temple).

Simply produce your ticket when requested. Whether you're praying or not.

Problem solved.
17:56 November 4, 2011 by zoroastrina
Yes the conductor was a train Nazi. Leave a devout Muslim who is reciting his prayers alone, you paddlers of junk ethics.
18:41 November 4, 2011 by orangetree
Guy is a bit stubborn. Wouldn t he stop his praying if somebody would his bag? And conductor might explain him that this is compulsory so if he doesnt want to be interrupted, he should put his ticket on the seat. But no, both behaved silly.!
18:58 November 4, 2011 by jvtx3232
@zoroastrina: "Leave a devout Muslim who is reciting his prayers alone"

What on earth for? If it's time to produce your ticket to show the ticket-checker, then do it. It doesn't matter a whit if he was praying or not when she came by to check tickets.

Why on earth should a "devout Muslim" get special treatment in this regard? That's crazy.

If I am on the phone with the hospital talking to the doctor who is treating my deathly ill mother who has cancer, or if I am a professor and have my nose buried in my laptop preparing a very important lecture, it doesn't matter. Whatever the case might be.

When the ticket-checker comes by I'll show my ticket and it doesn't matter what I'm doing at the time.

Common sense.
21:54 November 4, 2011 by KarolinaS
Hah, I have an idea - I'm leaving my job and starting using a train - one thousand everyday sounds ok for me - I'm gonna mumble something in the corner, then calling DO because I am disturbed in praying, I am white but I wanted to be beige, I'm too fat and I feel mobbed in a train because of that, I wear glasses so i'm weak and so on, and so on... silly DO

22:18 November 4, 2011 by Coalbanks
He could have placed the ticket in plainsight to avoid this happening.

The Koran says a muslim should live in a muslim country not in a country not under muslim rule. So why was he in Sweden? If in a non-muslim country the muslim should remove to a muslim country asap. Was he doing so? Devout when & how it benefits you? That is something all religions share, no?
22:48 November 4, 2011 by wxman
@Coalbanks, you're right, Muslims should only live in Muslim states. That's why they are in every country in Europe - - they're trying to ensure that's true as soon as possible.
00:56 November 5, 2011 by Uncle

"So SJ MUST have thought that the conductor acted badly to pay anything."

No, they are just paying to disgruntled customer.

However if you READ, you will see that the police justified his offloading because of THREATENING BEHAVIOR. Mmm, how unexpected from a peace-loving muslim. Almost as if they offloaded a buddhist monk. Same connotations in the mind.

You should cut off some heads in front of a camera, until everyone agrees that muslims are peaceful and unjustly discriminated against. Maybe some burning of embassies would assist.
03:30 November 5, 2011 by Khaliil
@ Opinionfool (#3) After starting the prayer it is not necessary to adjust position.

@ Migga (#4) Pull down all those Christmas trees in public places
04:41 November 5, 2011 by godnatt
Want a free 1000 sek voucher from SJ? And a free ride?

This Christmas season while riding the train pretend to be too busy wrapping presents to show your ticket!

No, of course that wouldn't work, now would it?

But of course we should all bend over backwards to accommodate this vile ideology instead.
08:06 November 5, 2011 by Grokh
@Rick Methven he got the voucher by playing the islam card not by saying he was mistreated as a passenger so its only normal he will be judged for playing the racism card instead of just being mistreated in a train.

so dont give me or anyone else the crap about people criticizing him just because he is islamic , you would find many would condemn anyother religion or creed just the same at least from my part.

i dont care if he is islamic christian jew martian handicapped or anything , if he was mistreated he shouldnt play the minority/religious card that says alot about a person who will thinks himself above everyone else or more special than others.

he should have stfu about the religion and just complain he was mistreated thats what i would have done ,and thats what most people would have done.

he shouldnt have used racism as an excuse he didnt show the ticket just to get a 1000kr voucher .
08:26 November 5, 2011 by Kublai
I would have done the same as the female train conductor - thrown him off the train. Maybe the reason he ignored her is the usual one, him being a muslim and she being a woman, and a infidel woman on top of that. These so called moderate muslims are demanding more and more and getting more and more aggressive, seeing how far they can push westerners. Just look at the street prayers in France which has now spread to Russia. I am so pissed off that our tax money goes to pay for all these hate-mongers and to pay for the islamic take-over in the Middle East and North Africa.
09:54 November 5, 2011 by Rick Methven

I wonder if the title of this piece read

"Man with valid ticket thrown off train"

Would the usual racist trolls have even bothered to read it or post a comment.

But a yet again I suppose TL needs the click through's that these sad souls provide
10:56 November 5, 2011 by Commoner
@Khaliil: "Pull down all those Christmas trees in public places"

If you believe that Christmas tree is offending you, better stay in a muslim country having sharia law. The Christmas tree was here before you came & will remain after also.

"But to the 35-year-old it is not about money but getting satisfaction. "

What a load of bullocks...This guy wants satisfaction now...So, is SJ going to give him BJ's onboard to satisfy him? :) Why should non muslims make exceptions to accomodate these people? The ticket inspector asked him Ticket, instead of hiding behind the religion, he could have simply displayed it.

Even after asking him 3 times, he did not budge & displayed his ticket. And after she had left him at peace, he purposely went to her to pick a fight with her. Who knows if he didn't had the ticket & borrowed it from another kompis travelling together.

If this guy would have done similar thing on a flight, they would have grouded the flight & have him arrested. And, here in this case he got paid.

The rule should be the same for each & every person, whether muslim or nonmuslim. No Exceptions.
12:10 November 5, 2011 by Iraniboy
Apparently some posters here have never boarded SJ trains which is not a surprise for me as most of posters here do not even live in Sweden! but for your information I should inform you that it is impossible to use one ticket twice in Sweden since the ticket becomes invalidated once observed and checked by a conductor. Besides it is impossible to buy a ticket for a train that has already left. Now you can make comments that at least make sense!
12:26 November 5, 2011 by NastyMe
haha what a Kunt
13:10 November 5, 2011 by Uncle

"Man with valid ticket thrown off train"

Mmm, I wonder if you should have added "which he did not present when asked to according to the public transportation regulations and engaged in threatening behaviour according to the police officials....thrown off train"

That is very discriminating indeed. Them poor muslims continue to suffer at the hand of crusaders and zionist...
14:36 November 5, 2011 by mieszaniec
In my opinion this event was planned, intentional provocation and it has no faintest relation to human rights or freedom of religion.

On the other hand, if I understand well, guy eventually showed the ticket before leaving the train. In this case, they had no right to ask him for leaving the train. But also, from the formal point of view, guy's refusal of showing the ticket on demand of the conductor should be followed by the fine for travelling without ticket.

Rules and law obeys everyone.
15:54 November 5, 2011 by samwise
if all a train conductor does is following the rule book in a static fashion, we need a robot there. people are not machines, there needs some common sense.

I blame the bureaucracy-law system, it discourages common sense and initiatives, allows lazy passionless greedy ones hide behind the rule books.
16:06 November 5, 2011 by hughknows
Perhaps someone should report The Local to the Swedish Press Ombudsman also - for false and grossly misrepresentative headlines?? Sites like Youtube have policies for their users to stop them using titles that don't relate exactly to content. It angers people and it's very unprofessional. You wouldn't have to tweak this headline very much to still attract readers yet maintain your journalistic integrity. Just a couple of words. The use of the word 'for' is a travesty.
17:16 November 5, 2011 by mieszaniec
@ #1,#91.

I would call the title the great misuse and abuse. Reporters seems to be toady and seeks for sensation in place where is no trace of sensation.

First, the guy was punished not because of prayer, but because of refusal of presenting the ticket.

Second, there was not mentioned that psysical any force was used to remove that guy from the train. They should be cautious with utilisation of right words.

English language is definitely very precise and one can find very suitable words for description of anything. I would suggest utilisation of the thesaurus. "Thrown" could also mean "casted" and someone can think that the guy was push through the window.

BTW, press all over the world uses the same trick to compell readers. They use to boost and abuse words in the title. This is typical journalst's indicency. One can ignore this, threating it as the commercial approach, but the issue is more serious.

People are lazyand read titles, not articles. Such titles boost up the tension and the hatred. Journalists sometimes forget how big is their civil responsibility. One irresponsible word can blow up riots or crime.
20:57 November 5, 2011 by Twiceshy
What a crappy title, thelocal.
21:06 November 5, 2011 by swedejane
I've seen this same swedish trait in other customer service people...god it is infuriating.
22:46 November 5, 2011 by Jackdempsey187
Really stupid headline, thelocal. Skärp er!
05:39 November 6, 2011 by shahislam
Modern society's and old religious laws cannot go hand in hand and will create only troubles for humanity. In Bangladesh over-crowded and money losing concern: trains have a running prayer rooms like Saudi Arabia which have business income of oil and religion, both! Prayer should be privately done at home.
09:07 November 6, 2011 by rationalperson2
oh no, poor muslim! they're always mistreated, hey. poor poor muslims. what a load of rubbish! follow the rules, ie show your ticket just like everyone else is obligated to do, and you won't have any problems! what absolute rubbish. i strongly doubt that the first thing that happened was that the conductor shoved the person in the back demanding "Show me the ticket! Hey!". Abandon your rubbish beliefs and FOLLOW THE RULES! If you don't like it, then move elsewhere! A DISGRACE to waste paying customers' money on compensating all these [start sarcasm] poor muslims, being treated so so bad [end sarcasm]. To live in a secular society and think you should be treated differently and somehow have the right to chose what rules to follow based on whatever fantasy god you believe in, is absolutely ridiculous! makes my blood boil every time i hear stories like this, trying to paint a picture of muslims being mistreated. stupid stupid religious ppl! and what sort of heading does this article have?! thrown off for praying?! how about thrown off for not showing respect for the law of the country? thrown off for criminal behaviour maybe? shame on whatever leftist person wrote this rubbish!
13:12 November 6, 2011 by Jes
Didn`t this muslim man know that one should pray from his seat if one was travelling ( in a car , on a plane , on train or on a horse ) ?
22:23 November 19, 2011 by Chickybee
Just go and live in Saudi or Egypt if you are a Christian, woman or gay person - there is no place for you or any respect for your rights whatsoever.

Why there is not more criticism made of this and more justification for the implementation of Swedish laws for EVERONE - God only knows.

Do we have serious integration problems with Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jews or other religions?

We know the answer - NO.

The Muslim world isn't one where peace and stablity are reknowned and the Arabs are almost impotent to help each other.

Europe can only do so much and take so much criticism from people who aotuomatically play the Islamophibia or race card - but it's old hat now and is wearing thin.
13:13 November 23, 2011 by Andersonville
I hardly hear anyone make mention of the fact that he said that she shoved him to the point of nearly toppling over. That alone deserves a reprimand. As long as he wasn't disturbing other passengers or employees, physical contact is not called for. In my opinion, she was less than professional in her conduct. On the other hand, he could have interrupted prayer to attend to her needs. There's no harm in starting it over, especially when you're dealing with ignorant people like that woman.
11:24 December 16, 2011 by mahah327
Hej all

Adaptation of a religion of Christianity, Islam och Jewish etc is an open choice of freedom for each and every human. So please do not blame people to have their specific religion by taunting the directions of mecca or so on !

Here if you follow the laws and do whatever you want is OK !

The man should not bother the passengers and should must check the ticket when the checker arrives to him/ her. He can also start his pray after a little while.

Please be tolerate each other of each religion and do not blame to the specific persons behavior like a behavior upon all of the people of the same religion.
20:22 January 29, 2012 by janeway
As usual we only get one side of the story. In this case a poor discriminated muslim. What's new? I've seen muslims present fake bus passes, being asked to leave and afterwards complained to the media and get a free monthly pass as an excuse. First hand knowledge.

This country have in the last ten years developed into an excusing-me-for-not being-muslim-country and a of-course-you-where-offended-here-please-take-some-money-as-compensation-for-us-not-accomodating-towards-your-medieval-religion-country. Time for us democrats to leave before we all have to wear burkhas!
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